Messages

BMD updated their Resolve training videos for Davinci Resolve 15. There are videos that I think are very good entry-mid level informative and are well done and of course trust worthy. Here is a link to first in worklow "Davinci Resolve 15 - Managing media" https://youtu.be/d0J_vr2xOJM

Tnx. Now you have put "Omar" and those graphs that I saw recently on forum to context for me. Sounds complicated, hope you can crack it some day.

So that's why (also why) 5D4 /EOS R are so tough to break...

I wish:

- Clean and accurate real-time preview for 3.5K crop_rec on 5DIII.

Thank you!

(Is that possible @a1ex ?)

You should ask here: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/

It is Davinci Resolve's (free edition) official help. An there are many helpful members, not just the BMD team.

BMPCC4K is a perfect form factor (cheap media? and batteries). On the plus side it has DCI 4K 60fps raw, will see what .braw brings in that camera. .braw put their 4.6K Pro at least a few steps higher than with old cDNG, you can playback footage with no frame drops, with heavy grade etc. on a +1K€ 3 year old PC laptop. Files are smaller (longer recordings, less disk space) and easy to transfer. And from what I could test, I can belive them that .braw put one extra stop of DR in the shadows. CDNG with its separate frames=files is the bottleneck of post performance... On the downside it is a small sensor camera (usable with speedbooster?), not exactly rainproof, etc.. Has its early? quirks as I have seen on some video reviews.

If A1ex gets enough help and pull ML on 5DIV, that would be the camera to go for what our team needs. 13.6 stops of dynamic range and good low light performance and 2.2K raw from 1080p (if I understood correctly?); that is almost like having an old Alexa with 1 less DR and much better lowlight performance, perfect for 2K DCI deliver.

But you can't have it all, for now what ML enabled on 5DIII is just plain awesome and for our workflow, raw is just a no brainer over all other 10bit 4K enabled plastic-ish image looking mirrorles wonders of the world. I agree about dynamic range. Roughly 11 stops can be a little short, but if you know what are the limits and how to pull that extra bit when pushing cDNGs, then you can get quite good results regarding DR I think.

I can agree with what was written about handling raw in post. But lets not forget, that on the other hand, a 40K$ option medium format from Hasselblad has 4K raw, that you have to convert first to get cDNG, just like with our ML enabled little and cheap, yet raw capable cameras (thanks to ML devs).

If there was a way to convert MLV to some other form of raw than cDNGs, that would put ML Canons into a different ballpark, on an extent even higher than for example Kinefinity or some other smaller exotic companies that are forced to use cDNG (but if there was a way, they would use it already).

[20 is unity.]

@extremelypoorfilmaker not a problem, glad to hear you found it usefull.

Here is another detail I found interesting: "Sharpness: A debayer-specific sharpness filter applied to provide the appearance of enhanced image detail. 20 is unity. The range is 0 to 100." (DR 15 Manual, page 136/2632) Soo, used to believe the "internet" that "0" is unity, and default sharpness "10" is 10+, while in fact it is 10-.  So if you want sharpness as it comes from the camera, use "20".

Please check this topic, if you are interested in what free Resolve 15.1 does with Super Scale: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=22872.0

[Media Pool > Clip Attributes > Video > Superscale]

I opened this topic since I really like what latest Davinci Resolve(s) have to offer, it is free and works really well with cDNGs lossless created from MLVs and I will probably post in the future other futures that I find usefull. Please share your own findings or usefull features.

If you want to learn how to use the software in detail, I found it is possible to do it for free through studying their user manual accessible here (for DR 15):https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/manuals/DaVinciResolve/DaVinci_Resolve_15_Reference_Manual.pdf

First I want to share my test regarding Resolve's Super Scale engine, partly inspired by that topic: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=22869.0

Super Scale is useful if you have a 4K (UHD) deliver and have some slowmotion shots in 2K (HD). Superscale is available only in 2/3/4x and has its own sharpness and noise reduction settings.

Superscaled to 3520x1320, JPEG:


Superscaled to 3520x1320, TIFF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11okxjlsp1Dneru_B4CcOj8HsK12wYEby/view?usp=sharing

Shot in 3520x1320, JPEG:


Shot in 3520x1320, TIFF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDmwtLMFX4wLK9439-uLUee8ch5szMNB/view?usp=sharing

Here are the details of settings used:

3.5K crop mode from magiclantern-crop_rec_4k.2018Jul22.5D3113

14 bit lossless > MlvApp 1.1.: cDNG lossless (no raw corrections)

ISO 400 1/46

Samyang/Rokinon 35mm cine at T5.6 ~70 and ~40cm focus distance

23,976 fps

3520x1320 2,76:1 1.63x cropped ff sensor

1760x660 2,76:1 3.27x cropped ff sensor

Davinci Resolve 15.1: Media Pool > Clip Attributes > Video > Superscale 2x / Sharpness = High / Noise reduction = Medium

Color science: RCM, I/T/O color spce: CanonLog, only exposure=1, other untouched

Deliver Resolve: TIFF RGB 16bit / JPEG Web Optimised from TIFFs for preview on forum

Validation: it depends from shot to shot. Resolve does a nice job with only "sharpen", but they say it is visually sharp up to 10% of upscale and that is kinda true.

*I know that there is a small change in lighting due to distance change to compensate crop difference. And if you want (sort of) AI, you can buy them fancy RTX Nvidia graphic cards

@Alex: @Litewolf asked about 4096x1440 @ 25p (1:1 crop); in my menu there is only 4K 1:1 half fps - 12.5fps. Am I missing something?

Thank you for your answer.

In between tried it and got it. In "receipt mask setup" you check which settings are copied and which aren't from selected clip and not the other way around. Stupid me. Sorry for spam.

@masc: I just want to uncheck "enable raw correction". Exporting to cdng. In 1.0 I put multiple mlv's in "session", unchecked at the selected one, clicked "copy the reciept to clipboard", selected other mlv's in "session" and right clicked "paste reciept" and that was it.

In 1.1. when I click "copy the reciept to clipboard" the new "receipt mask setup" opens, if I uncheck all = select "none" at the left bottom, and click "OK" nothing is saved to clipboard, as I understand, cause there is when right clicking other mlv's no "paste reciept" option.

I hope I wrote it clearly enough, not a native ENG speaker. Thank you.

Reduce file size by using lossless mlv's, you get 2x more for the same performance in post. But it is not possible on all ML capable cameras.

A: Buy more CF cards if shooting for one day only.

B: As Walter said buy new battery/charging device or laptop with internal SSD with enough space for a day of filming.

If shooting for many days, then it gets interesting. I'm experimenting with that workflow lately. You should ideally have enough CF's for a day, than if it's ongoing filming, at the end of the day you transfer via checksum, Resolve has it. SSD's are not the best archival storage, so you should use at least 2 copies of your footage on separate fast and reliable HDD drives, in protective hardboxes, ideally in separate vehicles, and so on...

But I suppose you just need what Walter said; upgrade your laptop and it should be the cheapest and fastest option.

I have experinced a problem in 1.1.; if selecting "none"  in reciept mask setup, it does not save it, and if you select only one clip, there is no "paste reciept" when right clicking it. Maybe it's just me, but could somebody please check? Using windows x64 version from Reply #2033

In 1.0 I just unchecked "enable raw correction", copied reciept and pasted to other mlv's on the left pane.

Othervise it is much more stable with dual ISO and so on. Congrats!

This is how I do it, but there is many proper ways, since this is not strictly technical, but also creative choice.

I use Resolve and learned what I can do with cDNG's in different color spaces. Getting friendly with Resolve color management and getting to know ACES lately.

You can recover some detail in highlights with Resolve's highlight recovery option in Camera RAW. Sometimes you can get color artifacts but there are workarounds.

So, during the take, you have to know what you can do in post, for me it is a simple rule. If it is well lit, eg daylight scene, than you can preserve highlights and in post lift shadows with much success, if it is a night scene it is good to watch for shadows, lifting causes noise if you don't have good noise reduction, eg Resolve Studio. That way you can "fake" more dynamic range, or use the whole of it. I ve seen many videos using Dual ISO that don't use all of its potential with lifting shadows in post, so there is actually no extra DR visible in final video heh. Of course lifting exposure is also needed to some extend, but people go too crazy and blow out everything, or on other hand underexpose it all. There is a fine line of lets say full potential of these cameras, since 5DIII has around 11 stops in crop mode. That's the main reason I cant wait for 5DIV ML, it has DR 13.6 in photo mode, so video should come close. Those extra stops help alot and 14-11...8 bit RAW is supercool in post.

It is common practice if using cinema or older manual lens that are decklicked, so you can smoothly close aperture during the take. They do it on pro level too, especially when changing indoors to outdoors, or sometimes leave it to blow, if its a creative decision.

With practice you will come to your own rules that apply to your own camera and post workflow.

I dont know why people are using anything else than Resolve. It is free and have it all. Just convert to cDNG lossless with MLV App (the best) and then all of the post in Resolve 15. Suits me the best. Adobe was just a pain in the ass with all of the round-trips and all of the hassle. pff

[4096x1440 @ 25p (1:1 crop)]

• How can I turn on 4096x1440 @ 25p (1:1 crop) on my 5dMk3?
  

I've installed the latest experimental built magiclantern-crop_rec_4k.2018Jul22.5D3113.





While I've sucessfully recorded in 3.5K 1:1 centered x5, I can't figure out how to turn on 4096x1440 @ 25p (1:1 crop).

No combination of Crop mode and RAW video in the ML menu seemed to achieve that resolution.
Did I forget to make some settings in a certain module?

I was confused with that when I tried this experimental build at first too. There is no 4096x option in latest builds, even if it says so in the first post and in text next to DL options. Even if it was, you wouldn't get many frames. But I think it will be at some point if 11...8 bit lossless combined with CF overclocking works one day. There is so much developing going on, that it is almost impossible to even follow or fully understand what is going on.

So my question here: If I want to try 1X3 binning Dual ISO on 5DmkIII 113, where is it possible to download such crop_rec module and how to set it; did anybody try it on 5DIII?

@masc

Hope I won't sound stupid again; is there a reason, that Cineform RAW is not included as an option of export? And those are unified files, not separate frames as in cDNG's? Lossles 1:4 > 1:10 cempressed 12bit RAW? I found there used to be Cineform RAW converter in early days of ML RAW (2014ish).

If it is so I think it would be really useful to implement that, if possible.

Thank you.

Link: https://gopro.github.io/cineform-sdk/

Masc and Andy600 thanks for your replies.

Off topic: I checked included footage on BMD and what the new .braw does is amazing, regarding what I experienced before with cDNGs from their cameras both in terms of size, file handling and pushing in post. They did a great job once again on the software part of their product line...

I just read that BMD gave out source and all for their new Black Magic Raw codec and is available to developers.

Link: https://www.4kshooters.net/2018/09/14/ibc-2018-blackmagic-design-introduces-a-brand-new-blackmagic-raw-codec/

Do you think it is possible to implement it in your already more than awesome MLV APP?

As I understood one of the main differences is that you get one file instead of separate cDNG frames in folders, which are harder to move around disks and harder to read so you get slower previews because of data bottleneck there.

MASC and other developers of MLV APP thank you for this amazing tool.

___

I have a 5d3 to play around with for the next couple days.
Can't seem to figure out crop rec, I'm interested in being able to record UHD.
Can somebody please tell me their working settings to get continuous'ish high res 24fps raw video?
Cheers

First look at first post of this topic, there is a good and relevant video tutorial. And read text also. It is recomended that you read lets say last 10 pages also.

UHD is not continous. You will probably get something around 3520x1320 on 11...8bit lossless. That is under 3.5K in crop_rec menu.

If you will set FPS override, you will experience altered shutter speeds in crop mode, but you can fine tune even that, it works.

Your question is probably not being answered because this is experiments development page, but I can totally get you, I spent a few days just browsing through forum and didnt get it completely, but then after testing it for another few days... Latest developments here are even hard to follow and test, so huge respect to all of the people here, who actually move this developments forward.

It takes alot of time but it is defenitely worth it.

hey guys, in the first post there is tutorial showing how to record continuously at 3072x1308  2:35:1 12 Bit, however in the last builds there is no longer that resolution. It now shows ...2240,2560,2880,3200,3520, what's the one to be used for 3K continuously with sound?

On a side note, when I try to enable the mlv_play.mo and already have the crop_rec, mlv_rec and mlv_sound ML crashes at the start. (crop_rec_4k.2018Feb24) "error: undefined symbol 'lossless_decompress_raw" E. failed to link modules.

I use "magiclantern-crop_rec_4k.2018Jul22.5D3113", so it could be different with your version.

You have to load mlv_lite with crop_rec, otherwise modules wont load. I never use sound due to external sound recording, but use FPS override all the time, cause exact 24fps is more managable especially for DCP. So for mlv_snd I dont know.

With recent crop_rec you can not use FPS override.

For "3K 3072x1308  2:35:1 12 Bit continous" I set it this way:

Under "Movie"
- enable crop mode, select 3K
- in raw tab select 2.35:1 and in resolution select 3072 and it goes automatically to 3072x1308, then is also select 14bit lossless, it wont go to 12bit lossless, to get continous (which also depends of ISO and actual scene you are filming).

Another bug: If I set those settings and restart the camera, I have black frame only. I have to set crop mode to OFF and select 3K again, then it works.

Alex, thank you for your answers.

I had problems with shutter speeds due to FPS override. FPS override works OK when not using crop mode, regardless of bit rate/lossless.

Colors and exposure were off at lover lossless bitrates because MLVProducer and mlv_play wont show them correctly. Mlv_play sometimes showed totally corrupted frames, but mlv_dump gave clean dng frames. So, it is really cruicial to use latest mlv_dump from experiments DL, at least for now.

For normal HD I retested and now everything seems OK.

There still is a few "bugs". When applying FPS override and turning it off, frame rate goes either to 30.125 or 19.sth, it can be solved by going to Canon menu and back. The other is when going to slowmotion crop mode, and applying FPS camera freezes. It is solved by taking battery out and restarting camera.

I will test more and post my findings.

Hello, I tried latest developments regarding 3.5K. Latest 22July, 4July and 20June. Had most success with the latest - 22nd July. Using 5dmkIII 113.

This topic is hard to understand or read all the pages. On one hand development is of course the most valuable, but it is a pitty that there is so few feedbacks from testers. Infos on first page and on experimental DL page also did not give me answers. So please answer these questions that I have:

- Which option is used when and what are the differences between them? (options in question are: 1920 1:1 tall/3K 1:1/UHD 1:1/3.5K 1:1 centered x5)

- How can you go above 3584x___?

- If I want to shoot biggest resolution to get smallest crop of sensor as close to continous what settings I should use?

- Why are there limited options of shutter speeds when using crop_rec especially when using lossless compression and how can I get normal options?

- Why I can shoot normally in 3.5K 1:1 in 14 bit lossless, if I choose 12 or 11...8 bit lossless I get underexposed and magentish colored frames? (4 bit lossless works even with 24 FPS override - all perfect frames!)

- Why I get red circle in "memory patches - code: FF28CC3C EA397952 crop_rec"?

Normal versions of HD RAW recording dont work, have corrupted frames. I get that, its bleeding edge.

I recorded successfully in 3520x1320 1,63 crop factor, which is almost continous. If get a bit lower I am on safe side. Crop sensor has much more rolling shutter, so you must have either tripod, video head with slow pan, sliders, IS lenses, gimbals and so on. It is impossible to shoot handheld with manual lens even if using wide lens. But the images are stunning and it is a pleasure to grade them.

I normally use "magiclantern-crop3x.2017Mar21.5D3113" and in that version everything works perfectly stable. Option that I like there is "card spanning", I can get continous 3200x1200 10 bit uncompressed and I can use raw2cdng which is just the best simple converter, then I use resolve and so on (other topic).

Maybe it wouldnt be stupid to actually open specific topic regarding testing crop_rec and maybe even have specific topics for all the models? There is for normal recording, but that is way behind what experimetal builds offer today.

Big THANK YOU to all the developers.

____

___