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Indy, you cannot record 4k out of the mk3 even with magic lantern. you can only get a 1080 signal out of the camera.
maybe 4k is possible at some future point? but i think it's hardware limited to the 1080 signal it currently sends.

You should set ISO to 100 on the 5D3 - you lose a lot of dynamic range by increasing the ISO no matter by what increments.

I'm going to cede this point, nevertheless I think it was important to use the same iso as the other cameras if we're going to say it can 'compete' with them. Otherwise the camera is like 4 stops crippled.

Im no expert but if the 5d3 was shot at iso 100 you could pull up those shadows more
I think the bmcc shines at 800 while the 5d3 shines at 100 200 ish

I'm not sure I've come across that opinion before, though I'm certainly open. Always thought it shined most in increments of 160? Or that might just be for noise. We picked 800 as its a fairly standard...Well standard for "professional" cameras... and so it should be able to work at that iso.

Of course photographers don't mind, but this is about video, and DP's where the standards are a bit different.

Let me put it to you this way -- you are getting ready to shoot a feature film, you don't have a camera. You have about $3k for a camera in the budget and you're trying to get the best possible image quality on screen. Do you purchase a 5D3 or do you buy a BM 4K?

I've been a huge fan of ML raw since the beginning, I own a 5D3 and I love the video that I get out of it. But when the clock is ticking, and there are 30 other people working on the set, and I've mobilized all sorts of artists, actors and gear do I feel like taking a chance on a camera with no playback, no official support, a time consuming back-end, and a possibility of having corrupted un-fixable frames in my footage when I least expect it?

you're totally right of course, though because of the time I started working with and studying cameras for film (within the past 4 years), figuring out the difference between s16, s35 and ff35 in my head comes probably a bit more naturally than the older guys who are used to standard film formats.
and as for picking a camera to shoot on for a production, you're right again. smaller-shorter things i've been willing to risk the 5D3 on with largely pleasing results, but I've not ever, nor will I be likely to choose this camera for a feature with its current set of limitations. (though to be fair, the rare occasions I shoot on film professionally, we don't have immediate play-back either, but certainly a much higher level of trust in a functional image).

I think Blackmagic is ushering in the end of the DSLR era much faster than one would have thought possible. While there will always be demand for cameras which can both shoot stills and video, I doubt DSLR's have much life left in them in the pro and semi-pro arena, particularly for independent feature work.

As much as I am a fan of ML raw, I have to say that having just gone through the process of using them in a fairly involved shoot, I'm not sure I'd do it again if I had a choice to use a BMCC. Now that 4K is going to be available at a 5D3 price point or less, the argument for using DSLR's becomes even less persuasive.

I suspect NAB will bring some additional surprises that will put the final nails in that coffin.

P.S.

I also suspect that Canon will not have anything particularly exciting to announce, and if they do it will be priced well beyond the independent filmmaker's financial range.

I remember people saying something akin to the death of DSLR video a few years ago, but advances keep coming out keeping the DSLR market going in the low-budget realm (corporate videos, local commercials, specialty 'b' cameras, etc). IMO whats impressive about the 4k BMCC isn't that it's 4k, but that its a S35 sensor that shoots real RAW. 4k definitely is the future, but 1080 as a final output still has years of life left, particularly in the broadcast market (I mean the Alexa is still 2.7k)
With a bit of extra processor power, I bet the next gen 5D (though years away) could easily have 4k capabilities, outputting maybe to something like prores422... so maybe if a mark 2 7D or something gets released sooner, it could easily have the same potential (the 1Dc has been doing it for a while after all).
As I mentioned in my write-up, the most impressive thing about the 5D3 when compared to the other two cameras is just how good the image looks pretty much right out of the box. Skin tones are beautiful, detail is up there with the big-guys, and the image is easily de-noised. I think this DSLR and others (like the GH4, though its a mft) have some life left in them for sure... where else are you going to get a full frame sensor that shoots (essentialy) raw for this price (or period)?

My only hang up is the history that black magic has with their cameras. Tons of the bmcc 2.5k sensors had dead pixel issuesplus the shipping delays. That being said their sensors that work like the one we used generated a good quality image with alexa like latitude. The 4k loses some of that latitude but if it handles an image like the 16mm sensor it'll be a great budget camera.

did a test the other month comparing the 5d3 raw image vs the bmcc 2.5k and a red scarlet mx.
tested the latitude, skin tone, and the ability to resolve detail.

http://caseywilsondp.com/2014/02/11/5d3-raw-vs-bmcc-2-5k-vs-scarlet-mx-part-1/

results were surprising to me.

Very nice work! Glad you like the raw. Some shots seemed to be colored slightly differently (more green) but all in all very nice.
As for the nospec business, the groups concern seems to be professionals working for nothing... ie creating content that can later be used by a company potentially without any payment.
In my experience, a large portion of what we term 'spec' in our industry, really means fake.
We create fake advertisements, using a companies logo, and in return have a professional product in our portfolio. No advertising agency, or company directly or indirectly benefits.
I've created spec ads for real products, and fake products. I've worked for free on these and it's paid off (sometimes it doesn't, comes with the territory).

My guess is the author is part of a team that wanted to create something for their portfolios, not for an agency or for Ducati.

the principles of color grading you can use on any footage really. you'll likely use different tools for red and alexa footage, but not always.
different cameras will give you more or less information in highlights and shadows, some will handle colors a bit differently, but the ideas behind a good grade are pretty much the same.

Very nice! quite serene!
Could you post camera settings/gear used? Like lens, iso, aperature, etc?

those are some great shots! and show quite well what people can expect from shooting in similar conditions, thanks for uploading the video 'flat', though I bet you could flatten it a bit more if you wanted.
A grade will virtually always decrease your DN by its very nature. You are choosing what you want to show, and how you'd like to show it. Your flat image is actually a grade of the raw info the camera captured.
For a finished product, it's not very important to see the entire dynamic range of an image, but the dynamic range is handy when you are grading so you can pick and choose what you'd like to show. Obviously more DN means more info in highlights/shadow even in a graded image.
I think our 5D3's in RAW are probably giving us roughly 12ish steps of DN, with 9-10 of those being usable (not noisy).

But you cannot do the opposite?

what do you mean?

Point taken, I'll do a basic grade of each and update.

I think it would be easy to grade them to be identical (nearly, obviously), however i've uploaded the tiff's for each so anyone can take them and push them however they want to see how the image holds up.
however if people would find that to be useful I'll apply a grade to see how close I can match them.
but really, you can grade alexa footage to look like footage from an iphone, right?

buddy did a shoot with an epic, and i tagged along with the 5d3. here are some comparison frames you can view/edit:

http://caseywilsondp.com/2013/11/12/is-the-canon-5d-better-than-the-red-epic/

I don't Know if you know this or not, bit the "raw2cdng" has options to convert 10bit Log, and 12 & 16 bit Linear.
i always use 16bit  Linear and go from there.
i choose to Keep my Dynamic Range as is.
i find that Photoshop ACR plugin can something make a mess of the image.
i limit my use of Adobe products, and just go into FCPX with dng's natively
and use "Open EXR tone mapper", it dose a better job.
Plus i have been  think about using  "ACES" in my workflow with Raw.

I did not know this, thanks for the info!

excellent work keeping your subjects exposed and keeping all that detail in the sky. nice

I'd like to see (and if there is a way already, my bad I couldnt find it) to have the image come out of the camera in a log-c (or redlogfilm, aka really flat) type of curve. I know all the information is there, and i can go in an flatten the curve in photoshop raw, but it's nice to have everything really flat, then send to color last.
regardless of that, i'm loving the image that is coming from the mark 3, and with all the information that is there (despite the crunchy standard look) i'd say we're close to alexa latitude.

bump. you probably haven't been able to do your full range of tests, but any first impressions?

Tron, can you be more specific? The first page links to a forum post that komputer bay sold a fake sandisk SD card. That seems weird since komputer bay appears to sell komputer bay cards.

sensor wont be a problem if you get a metabones speed booster.
the nikon to m4/3 speedbooster is already out,
and the the ef to m/43 is suspposedly coming out this month.
crop factor becomes closer to an asp-c.
plus you get added benefit of gaining 1-stop of exposure.

just thinking of getting a bmcc for $2k, im biting my lip at the thought,
but if i do get a BMD camera, i think i'll wait what the 4k can accomplish.
for now, im sticking to the mark 3.

also, for $2k, you get the camera and Resolve.
that alone is a steal.
oh really?
cropped? or 1:1?

I hadn't thought about the speedbooster, and while thats cool and certainly would help out some drawbacks from the BMCC, thats still an additional 4-500 bucks. Which really is a drop in the bucket when it comes to professional camera costs.
I think I'd be with you though, and just wait for the 4K. Even with one less stop of latitude, I think it'd be much more viable than the 2.5k

I think it really depends on what you plan to use the cameras for.
I've shot on both, and they both deliver great images.
The BMCC image right out the gate looks just like the 16mm I used to shoot in school. It's a very pretty image.
The crop sensor kills it for me. After having shot on super 35 (epic/red) and 35 (5D/Film) having to have special wide lenses isn't my favorite.
It is a heavy camera, but not much more than the Epic, and definitely less than the Red One (just shot red one handheld on a month long shoot).
Post workflow will be better/easier with the BMCC, plus you get davinci resolve for free!
Usable latitude/low light right now I think are better on the 5D.
Peripherals to make the BMCC a proper cinema camera will end up costing you a couple thousand on top of the BMCC (V mount batteries, matte box, rods, follow focus, etc).
Peripherals for the 5D will be a little less, but not much if you want to purchase high-end equipment.
5D takes amazing stills, BMCC not quite so nice.
Media for the BMCC is surprisingly cheaper, as with the 5D you'll need 1000x cards to match the BMCC resolution, and those are more expensive than the SSD counterparts.
BMCC has no in camera format option for the media (at least it didnt when I used it) that was a major PITA for me.

If strict image quality is what you're after, I'd have to say the 5D. If ease of use or cost or anything else come into play... it depends on what is most important to you.

Define cheap, 20 bucks is pretty cheap.

Hey everyone,
So earlier this week I had a shoot and we decided to try out the raw capabilities of our mark 3. Here are some dng stills from our shoot that you all can play with if you're still on the fence about trying out ML or if you haven't had the opportunity to shoot with it yet.
We only had an 800x card, so the resolution is 1920x818

The selected photos should give a good idea of how the camera handles darks, shadows, highlights, skin tone and how well it resolves detail.

Let me know if you have any questions.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwO55ILG1OL-ZXJkNFFXTXFrMTA&usp=sharing