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I don't know that you can compare the $2K BM 2.5K cinema camera to the 5d3 especially if the 5d3 can do continuous 14-bit raw at 1080p (and maybe even higher res one day). That said, I am going to be buying the BM now because for 2K you get a 5" LCD (even though I have an 8" monitor), SSD drive recording price wise are cheaper that equivalent sized flash cards, DNxHD/ProRes recording as well as 12-bit RAW, and the Davinci Resolve 9 (but free upgrade to 10), for $1500 or so less. The 5d3 raw footage is really good though, and with a much larger sensor maybe they'll even get it up to 2.5K or higher resolution with continuous recording one day. But for the price and what you get, the BM is a great deal. In favor of the 5d3 is you also have one of the best stills camera on the market, so it's tough to compare, but if you want just great raw and not so compressed video, the BM is a great deal!

Hi all,

I hope someone reads this soon and I am just doing something wrong. I bought my shuttle 2 last year, with intentions of recording the T2i HDMI out. I swear I recorded something with it at one time, but then my t2i hdmi out stopped working. So I got a refurbished t3i.

The emergency is I have my first paying gig this saturday and I have been spending 3 days trying to get the HDMI out to record on my shuttle 2. The SSDs are fine, got two different ones, they both work in terms of SSD light goes on then off and STOP button is lit. I was able to detect a video signal on the Shuttle 2 from my laptop. The problem seems that my t3i outputs 1080i 60, and it is a listed recording format for the shuttle 2, yet, the video light will NOT go on, so I can't record anything.

I've set the camera in to 1080p/24 mode but I assume that is the internal mode for recording to the SD card.

I have verified on my IKAN monitor as well as my TV that the signal is 1080i 60 coming from the T3i.

Is there any way to change that to 1080p/24 output? I am guessing not.. so if not, fine I'll record the 1080i 60 and then convert somehow to 1080p/24.

I've set the shutter to 1/47.5" on MagicLantern so that it's close to 24 fps. However, I am now confused if the output is 1080i 60, what good is it setting 1080p/24? Again, I hope I can convert to 1080p/24 in post, haven't had to do this sort of thing before.

Anything else I am missing as to why the HDMI out works on monitors but will not get the Shuttle 2 to light up the video signal?

Thanks.

Thanks for the info. I think for my T3i I am going to stick to my BM Shuttle 2 recorder and HDMI out, since I bought the recorder. It will give me close enough to RAW with DNxHD 220 minimal compression at 1620x1080 resolution, with a minor crop/upscale I'll have very good 1080p quality. I think for the t2i/t3i that will be the better option than 960x540 raw with a 4x upscale to get 1920x1080 resolution. If I had the 650D I'd consider the 95Mb/s cards if it got 1280x720 continuously, but it still seems most people are only able to get a minute or so of video before it cuts out. At least you could use it for superb 720p short takes, which for short films and and such would be just fine. I am looking to purchase the BM 4K and pocket cameras soon anyway, so I'll use those for their 12-bit raw 4K and 1080P capabilities and keep my t3i with hdmi out for now.

Hi all,

Trying to keep up with all the posts.. this keeps getting better and better. I am confused though.. does the 600d (t3i) do as well as the 650/700? I thought they all had 21mb/s limits on the SD card? Do the 650/700 handle 720p and the 550/600 do not? I can't seem to find specific info on the differences between the 4 models but up until now I thought they all had the same 21mb/s limit and thus would all have the same opportunities to record at the same resolution/frames?

If there is a 21mb/s limit on the SD card slot, then how does a 95mb/s make it any better than a 45mb/s card? Is there some sort of faster cache on the 95mb/s card or something that makes it faster? I am just not sure I understand how at a 21mb/s limit anything faster makes it possible to record more frames without skips and at higher resolutions?

Thanks.

Couple thoughts... I am going to venture a guess that the cheaper/older cameras with single processors aren't going to be powerful enough to apply compression to RAW. At least from how I understand it, right now there isn't a way to prevent the system from running the h.264 compression even though the ML is storing just the RAW. That could be wrong though, and if it is, I wonder how hard it would be to use the processing power that was used for h.264 to do some sort of compression like CinemaDNG RAW.

Second thought, given that the Txi's are limited to 21mb/s at the controller even though they support UHS-1 SD cards, the maximum resolution for continuous recording (if/when they can work it out so that we can record continuously to fill up the card without stopping) would be 960x540, which is 20.4MBps. The only way we'd see 1280x720 or God forbid 1920x1080 is if some sort of fast high compression could be applied, which of course we don't want h.264, so it's doubtful any sort of RAW compression with lossless will get us there if it's even possible. It would be amazing if we could get 1280x720 continuous (24fps) out of the txi cameras with something like CinemaDNG for storage. I'd even settle for DNxHD compression, which would yield far better results than h.264 but not quite as good as RAW.

The fact that we're even able to talk about this is beyond impressive.

Here's the thing.. when you take time lapse with too long of time between shots, you get a sort of jerky motion like your video had (although that could be for other reasons as well). I know you were testing it out, so by all means there is nothing wrong with learning. The more shots you take, like 1 shot every 5 seconds, the longer the video will be, but it will play back much smoother as well. That said, if you were doing a time lapse of say a building being built, you naturally couldn't shoot every 5 seconds for 3 months, the video would be way too long. I think each type of scenario will have different requirements for the duration between each shot. Keep on playing with it. These are some of my favorite uses of time lapse. Try doing HDR, it's amazing when it comes out right. If you're taking a picture 1 a minute, try shooting 3 or even 5 close together with different exposures and work with some HDR software and see it really come to life.

I could be wrong.. but raw2dng is not a GUI app, it's a command line ap. When you drag anything to it, or try to run it, what you see is a command window open then close. So it's working as intended (unless there IS a GUI component to it..the few videos I've seen show someone running a command prompt then running raw2dng.exe in that window directly).

Try opening a command prompt, CD to the dir where raw2dng is, then run it with the path to the .raw file.

That is true.. I forgot it's only 8-bit out of the camera. So naturally 14-bit is going to give much better detail. My question is in regards to the 1/4 pixel count in the 14-bit. At least from what I've read the most stable 16:9 format with 14-bit RAW on the T3i is 960x540, exactly 1/4 of 1080P. So, if I understand right, when I choose Raw and 960x540, a frame shows up on the LCD that shows what is being captured. What I am not sure of is since the resolution recording is 1/4 the pixels, even at 14-bit, will that provide good enough detail once blown up to 1920x1080 to be better than what I can get using the 8-bit HDMI output with a 1620x1080 image slightly cropped and blown up?

I suspect that the overall image will look better, but are we losing any detail by recording a smaller frame of video with 1/4 the pixel count?

On another note, would there be any benefit in recording a 16:9 resolution that is close to full 1080P (not sure if that is even an option yet) at a fractional FPS value.. for example, with Aodbe AE the interopolation looks really good when using slow mo. If we could record close to 1080P at 12fps, then use the best option to speed it up to 24fps, would it look good enough (if not even better) than recording at 960x540 and uprezzing x4?

Hi all,

I can't tell what resolution this was recorded in, but it looks great. I am waiting on my T3i to come in (replacing a T2i with the Canon loyalty program because my T2i HDMI out died and repairing it was about $50 less than upgrading to a refurb t3i.. figured the $50 was worth getting an almost new camera and flip out screen).

Anyway, I replaced because I use a Shuttle 2 with HDMI out and the 1620x1080 clean ML output. With a little crop and uprez, from what I've seen (haven't actually been able to do it yet) it looks really good at full 1080P. I plan to use DNxHD not uncompressed because of the space requirements and costs of SSDs.

Anyway, my thought is.. if I can only record 1/4 HD resolution at RAW (14-bit no less) vs an almost full HD at 10-bit 422, wouldn't the extra 3x pixels with low compression (but at 10-bit) be "better" than the 14-bit at 3x less pixels in RAW once it's uprezzed to 1080p? I am thinking more in terms of indie movies, music videos, commercials, even wedding videos, that line of use.

I will test both once I get my camera and a more stable T3i build is ready for use.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3140278

This is what I read (and another thread can't find it now) that seemed to me that the T3i would support the 45mb/s UHS-1. If the max is 21Mb/s then we're not going to do no better than a very low detailed 960x540, which is 1/4 HD. I would think if this is the best resolution we can do, using HDMI out uncompressed to my Shuttle 2 at 1620x1080 would result in better quality. It's not RAW, but it's almost 4x the detail.

I gotta ask, I know RAW stores various meta info, and it does give you some advantages in post, but is the quality of uncompressed RAW vs uncompressed HDMI out that much superior in post? I seem to be able to do some color correction and such with H.264, I would think that even without the RAW info, the uncompressed video out of HDMI out would be "close" to as good, and with almost 4x more detail due to resolution, I would then think it would be even better.

Did a little looking and it looks like the 600D t3i (and later) support the 100Mhz bus speed (50MBp/s) UHS-1. That's more than 2x the speed of what I was reading about the other day, which said the T2i/3i/4i would be stuck at 21mbp/s speeds thus limited to 960x540. Too bad we can't get a full 1280x720 RAW going! So it looks like on amazon about $60 or so for a 45Mbp/s 64GB UHS-1 SDXC card. I see Sandisk and Lexar cards.. hope those are good enough for this RAW recording?

Can the 600D do a continuous 1280x560 for several minutes? Or is it going to be a short burst of a few seconds then stop or have to catch up with buffers?  I also thought the 500-650 were all stuck at 21mbps? Which cameras support the UHS-1 (50mbps?) speeds? I have an SDXC card, only 133X (not sure what that translates into). 1280x560 is pretty good if it can do so continuously in 14-bit RAW.

Hi all,

I can't seem to find anything related to how the resolution is being achieved. I read "crop" but my question is, what I see in the LCD is being recorded and resized to the 960x540 for example? Or is the 960x540 a small subset of what is visible? I assume the entire image in the LCD is resized so that you are getting what you see?

Is the new ML code basically taking the full sensor RAW image, and "cropping" (resizing?) it?

I assume the reason we're limited on resolution is the 21MBp/s limit of the SD card? Or is the processor not fast enough to handle a 1920x1080 pull?

Sorry, trying to get my head around how this works.. my camera is out of commission right now, so can't test anything out.

Thank you Developer. I wish I had the bravery to build the nightly code.. I am a developer myself, but haven't touched C in years.. stick to Java and the web languages myself.

So, really then, my Shuttle 2 and HDMI out is pointless? Man.. I wish I had read this 4 days ago..my T2i is awesome except the HDMI died..so I just spent $350 to have a T3i refurb sent. If the RAW on SD Card is BETTER (even upsized to 1920x1080) than the HDMI out uncompressed.. I could have just kept my T2i and recorded RAW!! Oh well.. I suppose the flip out screen will be useful at some point.

So really the only drawback to the 960x540 is the lack of detail due to 1/4 the pixel count when recording the same frame of video?

With that in mind, what is the best way to resize the DNGs to 1920x1080 to try to preserve the best quality possible?

My only thought on stripping other stuff out was to reduce the code for all the other features to make more room to put in code that may be able to compress the RAW so that a higher resolution would be able to fit within the 21mb/s SD write speed. I don't know if the processor could handle compression code (would it be fast enough to compress RAW even slightly in real-time?).

You guys are amazing..I've no doubt you'll find a way to get the Txi's up to 1280x720 resolution!

Hi all,

Like many I am super excited about this ML development with RAW, but dismayed because of the Txi 21Mb/s limit reducing the maximum resolution possible.

First, with a theoretical maximum 21mb/s, will it ever be possible to get 1920x1080 RAW? I am guessing no, what about 1280x720?

Is there any chance a stripped down ML that is ONLY for RAW video record (e.g... nothing extra.. just purely focussed on RAW recording, not photos, HDR, etc).. by removing any/all unnecessary components to the ML files, would there be room to add code that *might* be able to compress the RAW stream so as to maybe get 1920x1080 compressed RAW (preferrably lossless or ProRes/DNxHD quality)?

Assuming the above is all no, and the best we're going to see is the 960x540... will that resolution, upscaled to 1920x1080 look a lot better than using the 1620x1080 clean HDMI out when the 1620x1080 is cropped and resized to 1920x1080?

I ask because I have the Shuttle 2 HDMI recorder, and am wondering since I have it, if it's better to just use that option and forget the RAW capability, or if resizing RAW would not add too much distortion/loss in quality and be better than the HDMI out?

Here's to hoping the ML pros can get better RAW resolution out of our TxI's.

The card does matter. Many cards "claim" various read/write speeds but often aren't close to what they claim. This is one reason Black Magic has for example a small list of SSDs that they've tested on their devices, and I proved them right by trying to use a couple other SSDs that were "faster" than the ones they support, that didn't work. I suspect your card may not write near the 30mbs. The cards that seem to be top speed are often the more expensive ones. I've got a Lexar SDXC 64GB with 133x write speed, class 10, I suspect won't be fast enough. I am guessing for the T2/3/4i the 400x should be fast enough, although I wish they'd stick to one rating or another.. like 30mbps or 100x, instead of both. Kind of confusing. I never know what 133x means short of it supposedly means 133 times faster than the slowest SD card.

I am hoping the T3i will get up to 1280x720 RAW in the near future and ultimately 1080p, at which time I'll see how it works on my 133x and probably purchase a more expensive one.

I haven't checked to see if there is a thread yet on what SD/SDXC cards work continuously, but this is so new, I think it's probably best to wait until it's considered near stable to put up a list of cards that work, as I suspect some that work now may not work as well once it gets near stable.

Hi all,

Just found out about this latest update and wow..that is amazing that these cameras can now record RAW of any sort.

Couple questions.. first.. any chance for any sort of RAW compression to help squeeze better res? I would suspect not given the limited processing power of the camera?

Let's say the t3i can't do better than 960x540.. with RAW quality, would uprezzed to 1920x1080 look good or not so good? I would suspect the 4x increase would make it look worse than H.264.

I am also an owner of the Shuttle 2, and using the HDMI out with uncompressed clean (using ML).. would you advise to record that way at the 1620x1080 (then resize and upconvert for 1080p) over shotting the RAW and enlarging?

Lastly, any chance that we'll get a full 1080p clean HDMI out some day?