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Messages - TrueIndigo

#1
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 50D
June 23, 2016, 04:29:27 PM
I've just added my Magic Lantern RAW video camera test for the 50D in the "Share your videos" section if anyone wants to check it out:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17476.0
#2
Share Your Videos / ML RAW video: 50D camera test
June 23, 2016, 04:27:06 PM
I finally edited some shots I made during summertime in the harbour at Weymouth (Dorset, UK) in 2013, using my Canon 50D and an old version of ML -- better late than never, I suppose! Shot with just the standard Canon kit zoom, it was my first serious test shooting with ML RAW and I recorded wild audio for some atmosphere sound. Post production workflow was: import DNG sequences into After Effects to export small proxy files (H.264 MOVs) for the off-line edit in Premiere. Then reproduce the edit in After Effects for the on-line, which includes final colour work (invoking ACR) and enlargement to 1080p25 for the export.

Almost any camera can pull off a decent close-up of something, so although it's a bit boring, I shot mostly wide views on a tripod featuring lots of detail to see how well it was resolved. It was a warm day and as expected the 50D got very hot. On a few occasions when I wasn't noticing the temperature warning turning orange, some takes were automatically terminated because the camera was forced to shut down -- sometimes the top of the pentaprism was actually too hot to touch. But turning the camera off frequently after a few takes was a reasonable working method for heat management and using a battery grip probably helped too.

It's not a short film but a camera test - the leisurely editing style is purely to give a bit of time to see the RAW image character, though it's a shame something of the sheer luxury of the RAW look does not fully survive my H.264 export followed by youtube's own secondary encoding. But I do like the character of these older Canon cameras with RAW shooting: almost incandescent colours are available in the files yet skin tones remain very natural. And the fact that the 50D can't normally shoot video at all makes it strangely rewarding. 

Some technical info
Date of shoot: 26th August, 2013.
Camera: Canon 50D (no Mosaic Engineering VAF filter fitted).
Lens: Canon kit zoom 18-55mm.
ML build: 2013jul27.50D.109.go.unified.728e571a1276.
RAW frame: 1584 x 662 x 25 fps.
Camera frame AR: 2.39:1 (final export within a 16:9 frame).
Sound recorder: Zoom H2 (wild sound).
Export: 1920 x 1080 x 25 fps H.264 MOV (12,000 kbps).

Here's the youtube link:

https://youtu.be/BemZ_oXCMII
#3
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 60D
April 22, 2015, 10:58:20 AM
I recently did a test with the 15th April nightly build. Using a 16 GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 Class 10 card, shooting 2.39:1 (to help reduce datarate a bit more) and at max res of 1728 x 724, I got the following:

25 fps = 270 frames (for 10 seconds).
20 fps = 327 frames (for 13 seconds).
16 fps = 440 frames (for 17 seconds).

I didn't think there was much point in going lower than 16 fps.
#4
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 50D
April 21, 2015, 04:16:49 PM
I need to shoot a genuine comparison test to be sure, but it seems to me footage from my 50D does seem more organic looking than that from a recent test I made with my 60D. Even though I was using the maximum full sensor width (though only lasting for about 10 seconds) which is higher resolution than the max res of the 50D, somehow the video looked a bit grainier in comparison (not what I was expecting). The 50D footage has always looked quite film-like; seems there's something about these older sensors that is quite attractive. I bought a second hand 5DII, which is a similar era Canon, for that very reason to experiment further with ML raw video. Since I've run out of money, I need to decide which one I should buy the VAF filter for because I can't afford filters for them all.
#5
Share Your Videos / Short comedy on ML RAW
April 20, 2015, 10:50:59 PM
Short comedy I shot over the weekend (19-4-15) to experiment with ML RAW video. Me, my dad and an old computer (just a prop I made).
Camera: Canon 5DII.
Lenses: vintage Nikon AIS 24mm and 50mm primes.
Aspect ratio: 2.39:1.
Post: After Effects/ACR, exported to DNxHD ("85" 8-bit, 4:2:2).
Edit: Premiere Pro.

#6
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 60D
April 17, 2015, 07:33:04 PM
Have been shooting raw video on the 50D for a while and decided to finally do the same on my 60D. I thought I had set everything up the way I usually do with the ML menus (I went through them both together with both cameras, just to be sure), but with the 60D it doesn't seem the same. I don't get the usual framing for 2.39:1 aspect ratio that I have chosen (it seems more like 16:9), and I can't see the live RAW histogram to judge exposure though I have set it on in the menus.
#7
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 50D
April 01, 2015, 01:55:05 PM
I looked back at my notes and didn't realise it was so long ago that I last made a crop mode test. That 2000 width frame came from one of the forked builds in late 2013! Sorry for causing confusion with old information, everyone. I would set 2048 in the menu and get 2000 at about 16 fps!
#8
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 50D
March 31, 2015, 12:33:18 PM
Renovatio, I think max frame size for 2.39:1 in crop mode is 2000 x 852.
#9
"DNxHD 444 is 10bit" - yes, but those are not available in the free "LE editon" codec set are they? I think the 4:4:4 codecs have an "x" after the name to indicate this extra quality, such as "DNxHD 365x" (1920 x 1080 x 25fps) which is 4:4:4 10-bit compared to "DNxHD 185" (1920 x 1080 x 25 fps) which is 4:2:2 10-bit - I don't see the 365x option in the list. Presumably these are only available in the professional codec pack. To be honest, I don't think my material probably needs full colour sampling, and I would welcome any file size reduction I can get with video. I just wondered though if 4:2:2 (which is broadcast quality) may nevertheless result in a colour degradation, mindful of the fact that if you are going to delete your camera files you therefore want these DNxHD files to be best quality they can be.       

"Are you sure you're getting 2k dimension?" - When I check Windows properties the dimensions for the clip are blank (presumably because it's non-standard?), but when I imported the file into Mpeg streamclip as if to export it, the dialogue shows: "2048 x 858 (unscaled)" as the default size of the clip, so I guess it really is that size and not just automatically stretched-to-fit on my 2K Premiere timeline. There are no black bars top/bottom (within 16:9), just the very wide CinemaScope shape.
#10
"4:2:2 is fine for most work" - yes, I was wondering about that. The free "LE edition" of the Avid DNxHD codecs do not include a 4:4:4 option for the 10-bit depth settings. Since we are coming from RAW, is very much lost with 4:2:2 colour sampling, Andy?

Another observation:
As an experiment, when I exported a DNG sequence from the After Effects timeline to NDxHD 185 10-bit (1080p25 in the codec dialogue box), in the After Effects render queue, I then set a different frame size (an enlargement to 2K) and shape (to fit my 2.39:1 ML material), and this resulted in a mov of that size and shape, overriding the codec's 16:9 1080. This mov played perfectly in Premiere on a timeline sequence set for that frame size.
#11
Andy I was wondering what your recommendations are for output format? I was reading up about the ProRes codecs, which seem like a good choice to master from the ML DNGs, but since I use Windows/Adobe, I assume I can't export from After Effects/Cinelog to ProRes because there is no ProRes encoding on Windows? I have used DNxHD in the past, but I was wondering how to set non-16:9 frame ratios (such as 2.39:1) or frames bigger than 1080. And it seemed a bit strange to use as if there was a bug (for example, the dialogue box appears slightly off the top of the screen and the field box in it dips below the dialogue boundary itself). I see there's now NDxHDR which perhaps is better?
#12
It's just Raw Therapy - from my limited experiments with it last year I found that it converts raw images a few pixels less than expected; whereas the same files brought into Adobe Camera Raw produce image frame sizes exactly as expected. Strange.
#13
Camera-specific Development / Re: Canon 50D
July 19, 2014, 10:27:54 AM
This sounds interesting. Have you seen any "exposure flickering" using Media Encoder which could be noticeable with some footage processed with ACR?
#14
Andy, when shooting raw with the 50D, which produces a less than FHD frame size, I was wondering where in the post workflow (using Cinelog) you would upscale the image for the least image degradation? Also, what sort of enlargements in your opinion are reasonable from a raw image? I'm shooting 2.39:1 1584 x 674, with a view to enlarging to 2K, which for DCI 2.39:1 is 2048 x 858 - roughly a 29% enlargement. Do you think 29% would reveal visible artefacts?
#15
Raw Video / Re: C - mount lenses on 5x crop mode?
March 24, 2014, 07:50:53 PM
I'm not sure about the vignetting, but the lens flange distance is the main problem (C-mount needing 17.526mm, while Canon EF = 44.0mm). On the 7D RAW thread, forum user jairobbo posted a brief mention of a DIY experiment with crop mode in which they stuck a C-mount lens to a Canon body cap (their post was dated January 6th - I was interested enough to make a note of it!). It sounds like the rear element of the lens must have protruded inside the camera somewhat, so it would be good to know if this can be done without endangering the camera.
#16
Tragic Lantern / Re: 50D Raw video
February 24, 2014, 08:36:02 PM
Thanks Andy.

KahL: "I'm also looking into purchasing some super 16 glass to further look into this for the 60D as well." -- can I ask what mount you will be using? I have some C-mount lenses I've had for years, but I can't use them because the lens register distance of a Canon DSLR is too long (44.0mm versus 17.5mm for C-mount).

EDIT: I just saw one of your earlier posts -- you mentioned PL lenses (with a lens register distance of 52.0mm). PL lenses are out of my budget, but I'd be interested to hear how you get on with them.
#17
Tragic Lantern / Re: 50D Raw video
February 24, 2014, 08:21:32 PM
I was looking through a note I made last year of shooting in crop mode with a slower than normal frame speed - as an experiment to increase the frame size. I was using 2.39:1 aspect ratio and set the speed to 12 fps; I thought I had set some of the larger frame sizes available in the menu but kept getting an actual frame size of 2000 x 852. Is 2000 pixels the largest possible crop width regardless of frame speed, or did I mess up somehow? Thanks.
#18
Tragic Lantern / Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
December 29, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
The Mosaic Engineering VAF filters made for the 5DII and 7D were designed for the 1080p resolution of their H.264 Canon video output. Does this have any visible impact on their ability to ease the moire effect for raw video which is recorded at a different resolution? Since the 50D had no native video output, my understanding is this new VAF has been specifically designed to work at the 50D's full sensor raw video resolution. If correct, the 50D should have the closest matched VAF for shooting raw video so far made. Looking forward to seeing material shot with the new filter in the new year.
#19
Raw Video Postprocessing / Re: Cliphouse
December 08, 2013, 12:30:56 AM
Me too. Although I'm Mac at work, it's Windows/Linux at home where the ML stuff is done. Shame.
#20
Raw Video Postprocessing / Cliphouse
December 07, 2013, 12:02:52 PM
Happen to see this mentioned on No Film school: raw software called ClipHouse (to copy, manage, colour, export) which it is claimed can also handle ML raw files. Costs $49 for a yearly renewal or $129 for a permanent license:

http://pomfort.com/cliphouse/index.html

Here's the No Film School item I found it from:

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/12/introducing-pomfort-cliphouse-raw-processing-software/

You can try it out for free. I think it's Mac only.
#21
Tragic Lantern / Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
December 07, 2013, 11:55:55 AM
Happen to see this mentioned on No Film school: raw software called ClipHouse (to copy, manage, colour, export) which it is claimed can also handle ML raw files. Costs $49 for a yearly renewal or $129 for a permanent license:

http://pomfort.com/cliphouse/index.html

Here's the No Film School item I found it from:

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/12/introducing-pomfort-cliphouse-raw-processing-software/

You can try it out for free. I think it's Mac only.

EDIT: I'd better post this in the "Post" section too, though the 50D section is my favourite place!
#22
Tragic Lantern / Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
November 16, 2013, 12:39:26 AM
Some people have experienced problems with RAW Therapee when adding large numbers of files to the queue for processing. On the RAW Therapee forum I read this workaround:

Create a temporary folder with no files in it.
Go into RAW Therapee and add your files to the queue.
Set the browser tab to be open on the empty folder you created.
Close RAW Therapee to refresh it, then open it again.
On the queue tab set your job to process.
Quickly switch to the browser tab which is open on the folder with no files.

For lots of files, RAW Therapee queue processing seems to work better with the queue in the background and the file browser in the foreground (and no thumbnail generation). If you are experiencing processing crashes, give this method a go.
#23
Tragic Lantern / RAW Therapee query
November 04, 2013, 03:22:08 PM
I'm using Andy's TL (Oct 11) build and shooting in full sensor mode in an aspect ratio of 2.39:1 and setting "1600" as the frame width, which produces a video frame size of 1584 x 674.

Having created DNG files from the ML raw video file, I find that exporting tiffs from these DNGs in Adobe Camera Raw produces frames the same size as the DNGs, but exporting tiffs from RAW Therapee produces a slightly cropped frame of 1576 x 666, which is 8 pixels lost from both height and width. Anyone else get this slight crop with RAW Therapee?
#24
Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
September 07, 2013, 10:56:29 AM
ruanjiayuan, it depends on what frame size/aspect ratio you choose, but shooting say largest frame in 1x (non-crop) mode you'll be lucky to get even 3 minutes worth on an 8 GB card. That's not much even just for testing. Ideally, get a fast large card -- check out buying recommendations on the thread since some brands/sizes are better than others (eg. 64 GB 1000x KomputerBay card is better than their 128 GB card). I have a 64 GB card which allows me to shoot approximately 23 minutes of footage. Not much if you are used to H.264 video -- welcome to the wonderful world of raw file sizes! 
#25
Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
August 19, 2013, 09:42:45 PM
I've been using a 17-50mm Tamron zoom lately, and at f2.8 constant, it's not too bad, but really I'm an old lens fan too. I have two sets of 24mm, 28mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses in both Nikon F (AI-S) and Pentax PK. I think the extra clarity when shooting raw (compared to Canon H.264 video) really helps to bring out the character of these older lenses.