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Nice explanation g3gg0 ...

You can't be serious. You are basically saying the scientific method is useless.

Please quote me before putting words in my mouth, because I don't see where I said that. 

What I said was real life conditions tend to be better testing grounds than controlled situations.  It happens in every product manufactured.  How many automotive manufacturers recall cars every year for problems that manifest themselves after the vehicle was released to the public, and not on controlled testing grounds.  Toyota offered a million bucks to anyone that can determine why some of their vehicles speed out of control and kill the occupants. ... seems they can't reproduce the problem either.

Or software where operating systems need constant updating for issues not reproduced until it was packaged and sold to the public (and I'm not talking security breaches).

What I DID say was, "testing ML in a real world environment will or can determine if the code is stable and not have issues".   Although, proper laboratory testing is very useful to determine the exact cause of a problem.

It's not that you're issue is being dismissed b/c it couldn't be reproduced. It's that there's absolutely nothing a developer can do, as much as he would like too, if he can't reproduce the issue. He still wants to fix your issue, but it is impossible to fix a bug without reproducing it.

I understand this, but the bug report was removed (dismissed) like the problem doesn't exist.   I would like to see the report from the dev who did the testing that determined the problem doesn't exist and warrants removing the bug report.   I know there is a problem, I experienced it, and obviously others have too, so there must be something going on.

Either way,  I reported an issue I know to be true trying to help out.  Investigate further or not.  As far as I'm concerned then the issue is closed.

Do you have suggestion for debugging issues that aren't reproducible in controlled tests?

Yes, work with the people who report issues.  Just because you can't reproduce it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I think production shoots are much more reliable than controlled testing anyway. I mean what better way to know if a build is stable, than to put it though hours and hours of constant use.  Starting and stopping the camera, changing environment, different camera settings.

I've been talking with Alex privately about this and told him I would be testing the concerned build in another commercial shoot.

Professional shooters should consider using a paid product with the expected personal support that comes with it.  Of course, there are many paid products that have much less support then that offered by the Magic Lantern team and it's users.

I never expected any support from ML.  My reports are only made to help out the ML team.

When 2.3 was released, the claim was that it was considered "stable enough for production use", so I thought that was the whole idea behind testing the nightlies.  To make sure they are stable enough for production use also.

A good example of the lack of this being done is the 600D 'overheating' issue. Countless people have reported this issue. Not one has done anything to help resolve it. Simple scientific-like experimentation can easily help resolve the exact source of the problem without any coding skill at all (e.g. monitor the temp of the camera overtime, both the display temp and with an actual thermometer, try different builds, use the stable build as a control group, etc.). The nightly builds are for testing, nobody actually seems to be doing this, or their idea of 'testing' is: 'use in a production enviroment and complain when something goes wrong'

Myself and my crew have been using the nightlies in a production environment in probably some of the most extreme situations these cameras will ever see for testing purposes.  And when we report issues (like overheating and shutting down), it gets dismissed because someone else proved the claims invalid during a controlled test. 

I use my cameras daily for business, not once a month for short films, and I've been testing the nightlies since the beginning of the year to help out the ML team. I film and edit daily and don't have much time to devote to specific ML controlled testing, so I report what I find in the field.  If that doesn't help, then I won't waste my time.

I just hope that the dismissing of any issue, because someone said they couldn't reproduce it in a controlled test doesn't screw up someones professional shoot. 

600D Overheat issues:

Filmed the LPGA Charity Tournament today with 3 600d's.  I was running an older nightly build (6-1) on two cameras, while my second operator was running an Oct-25 build. 

The only camera to overheat and shutdown 6 times over the course of 9 holes (3 hrs) was my second operator's with the 10-25 build.

Originally I had thought this was a temp reporting error, but obviously it is not.  The camera IS getting hot.

The other two cameras with the older build had no issues what so ever and were used in the exact same environment and temps.

I advise anyone running nightlies since the new memory and design layout revert back to an older build, or deal with overheat issues.

Same here:-) what is the max safe temperature?

One of the devs said its most likely a coding issue.  The temp read out may be off.  If your not getting the Canon overheat warning, you should be ok.

I use my cameras commercially, so I can't take any chances. I went back to an earlier build where this wasn't an issue.

I'm using the newest Nightly Build for my 600D and I had no problem installing it, but as I keep my camera on within just a few minutes the internal temp goes up to 60 degrees Celsius/140 Fahrenheit. Did I do something wrong to have that happen? I've never had any other problems.

I noticed the exact same thing on a recent shoot.  So I reverted back to a 5-30 build,  prior to the new memory and new layout, no more problems.  I think they are pushing the 600D a little too hard.

No idea.

Wav recording is unsafe (as in undefined behavior, including possible camera brick) on all builds that have it enabled, except for the ones before 600D audio controls.

I'm not using .wav (actually don't even know where to find it),  I just wanted to make sure the standard audio controls are good still.

thanks A1ex

Are the standard audio functions in the nightlies working ok?  Or does this just affect the .wav recording.

Its not competition, ML still drives most (like 90%) of the features... I never made a pull request because I have no clue how.. I know how to bring them in but not push them out. The diff seems like the best idea. Plus previous laptop only had a 40GB so with all ida files/arm console files/etc I was just out of room. Most of my time is spent adding ML stuff, fixing conflicts and testing stuff.. But this machine can actually play back the H264 video from 6D/600D and I have 128GB to work with.

Cool dude,  get your code tweaked so it passes ML safety inspection and get it in the main repo.  You have too many good features not to include them in ML.

When raw capability first came to be, you had to run TL to get this feature on the 600D.  There were links in the main raw forum to TL as the source for the 600D.  I think those threads gave it credibility as to being safe to run.  Other than one small post by a1ex about sraw, I never knew of any other potential hazards in the code, so I continued to use it.

And, if you look at the number of downloads, there are a lot of people either running or at least tried TL, who I'm sure are not aware of these issues or even this discussion.

I recommended TL to a lot of people including friends, which I now feel obligated to point out A1ex's concerns to them and let them make the decision whether to continue using it or not.

Like Andy600, I too am guilty of compiling code for other users from 1%'s fork and sharing it with others, and (knock on wood), no one has bricked or harmed there cameras.

In no way is this meant to be a derogatory statement aimed at 1%,  I have nothing but respect for the man and I wish I had his skills.
I too hope they can all work together to get this concern ironed out.

I've been running TL on multiple 600D's for quite some time for commercial work and haven't experienced any issues. I believe 1% is a competent coder and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't release anything that would jeopardize our cameras. 

But, that said, after reading the two topics that dmilligan posted above, I've decided to heed a1ex's warning once again.

I've been known to do some stupid things while recording, including turning off the camera instead of hitting the stop button to end the recording, so as a precaution and to hopefully save the lives of my cameras I'll revert back to using the nightlies.

I could probably just get by with using 2.3, but there are so many new features and the new look make my little 600d's power houses on the job.

I'd love to see some of TL features merged into the main branch, especially the video hacks and maybe the advanced bitrate control. So, hopefully these guys will work it out.

it looks like your histogram, turn it off in the ML menus.

Here's two frames from the short film I was talking about earlier. First one's the source file (RAW --> raw2cdng.exe). The second one is a processed one, upscaled to 1080p. That's roughly the color palette i'll be using to grade the film. Click on the picture so see the full resolution ones.

Shot at 100ISO, Hanimex 28mm f/2.8 @ f/5.6 or f/8 (can't remember), 1408x528 (2,67:1, max 240-250 frames)

Nice images.  Were you using ML or TL for this?

thanks, what a coincidence! could I ask you a big favor? could you give me the original DNG so that I can try to make some experiment with it? today is also my birthday would be a great gift for me!

thanks a lot if it is possible!

Sorry, this was just a test project and the original .dng's were deleted.  Happy Birthday!

I'm confused sorry, where did you get those pics? Is you the author of this youtube video (the music is awesome remember me the movie "Paris, Texas") ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97hdf0lzEbQ

Yes, that was my video. I got the pics from the orginal files.

please can you give me some example, something to see with my eyes shot with the 600D? thank you if it's possible.

Don't know why you want them, but here are some screen grabs.

Original 960x540  lossless .avi from AE



Upscaled to 1080p using Magic Bullet Instant HD

you are really kind
thank you my fiend. I wish to ask you one last advice if it's possible. I'll try to explain in short, have been passed some years since I started to    
economize my money to buy a DSLR to make video for cinema. since Magic Lantern has RAW I lost my plans about what to buy, because anything I knew about DSLR body, ISO noise, models, were lost. Now I wanted RAW and my research started from scratch again.
I wish to buy the 600D because it's relatively affordable. And I can use the rest of my money for video tripod, redhead lights, mics. But I have not understand how nice is the quality of the RAW video when it's done and is upscaled to 1080p.
I will try to produce short films and I'll try to show my shots in movie theaters for short film festivals. I believe that sub HD is not a problem because the detail of the RAW is very good also in Sub HD. But I have not understand if we can notice pixel when watching those videos.

how good it's for example 960x540 upscaled to 1080p? can you notice pixel like this image at the edge of the shapes?
I have got the sample from youtube (600D raw video).


those pixels moves and can generate distraction to the people who see them.
source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97hdf0lzEbQ






thanks again for help.

That was an extreme upscale and don't recommend it for production use.  Also, alot of the artifacting is probably due to youtube compression.  The original looks much cleaner.

The help text from the menu tells you exactly this. Maybe it needs a bigger font?

LOL

No problem 

Thanks, I thought it might be that but when I try to turn it off I can't do it. As I togle through different setting it goes to lowest number but no off, or should I be turning it off. I am new at this so sorry for the stupid questions. My wife printed the manual today at work for me so hoping that helps.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but if you don't understand white balance you really shouldn't be using Magic Lantern.  ML opens up advanced features in your camera, you should already know the basics before messing with ML.

I suggest unistalling ML and master the Canon features first, then give ML a try.

I loaded ML last night and loe the fatures I see on the menu, only trouble is I have to learn how to use a lot of it and I will learn eventually, I hope. I shot my first few photos this morning and they all have a blue cast on them. Can anyone help with this problem? I am using Canon T3I
Thanks

White Balance!

now working dslrrookie

Autoexposure still dosnt, going to try silent pic in a sec.

@dslrrookie do u know how to stop the lcd from turning off when metering? everytime i press the shutter button halfway down it turns off, never use too :/ SOLVED..

Not sure,  I went back to an older build temporarily while they get the nightly's right.  Haven't had much time for testing, too much work here!

Wow that was fast..

Boots now thanks A1ex!,

Im guessing global draw has changed? only shows GB amount, even with display on all modes on.

Seems like A1ex always has to come to the rescue! .... LOL  Good Job Alex!