Messages

[VisionLOG to Rec.709 LUT]

BTW since the VisionLOG to Rec.709 LUT (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) outputs essentially the Prolost Flat gamma and gamut you can use it for a color accurate Filmconvert workflow!

Is there already a solution for the raw2dng converter not embedding the camera EXIF data in ACR? I get the canikon, like some others here.

We've actually included a Canikon (capital C) profile but I'm not sure if there are other restrictions that would prevent VisionLOG from showing up. In case your exif data lables the camera model "canikon" (no capital C) try to add this profile to the folder and see if it shows up in ACR: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp

[We'll add a free download link to the VisionLOG page (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) within the next few hours.]

Midphase,
sorry for not responding earlier but I just came across your posts. We've actually created a very accurate LUT to get BMD Film to the VisionLOG gamma and color space. While the resulting images are almost identical low light color response in the ACR-debayered versions is slightly better. Here's an example my colleague prepared to demonstate the effect of the LUT and the gradeability of the resulting image (compressed source, obviously).

(1 - BMD Film color space & gamma in Resolve, 2 - BMD2VisionLOG LUT added in a node, 3 - Primary CC with an Osiris LUT thrown in):


We'll add a free download link to the VisionLOG page (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) within the next few hours.

Thanks, but osiris (or every other lut) looks completely different in resolve (bmd film, rec709 to LOG, whatever) than in ACR with vision LOG and lut buddy. Colors are different (for example m31 lut: in ACR grass is greenish blue like blockbuster teal orange look if you know what i mean but in resolve its becoming much more yellowish, completely different look when theoretically should be the same. Visionlogs luts consists of lut (rec709 to log) which in theory should be the same as their visionLOG profile for ACR just to have the same starting point. I am sure, that with some tweeking one can match resolve with acr but i wonder, which app represents the effect creators of those luts wanted to achieve (acr looks nicer imo but resolve is so much faster).

Not only is the the color science of the BMD film profile in Resolve completely different from our VisionLOG ACR profile (and our LUTs don't currently detect the input color space when converting the existing values to new output values), but the BMD film profile's delinerarization and matrix decoding is engineered for a different camera with a very different sensor than the 5D-originated footage you're trying to interpret with the profile. There seems to be some confusion regarding LOG profiles in general so let me just add that there is no such thing as a universal log color space that is the same for all cameras. LUTs are merely a static table of numbers representing input to output value transformations that are calculated based on specific input device data. The accuracy of the conversions depends on the extend to which the input device is taken into consideration when performing those transformations. Our current LUTs are available as Rec.709 and LOG versions which are derived from averaged video and log color space data that will yield the intended visual results only after the variables (input color spaces) are manually adjusted (a part of primary color correction in colorists terms). We're currently working on a more automated process by creating the VisionLOG UCS that converts a large number of cameras and profiles to the exact same LOG space.

May i ask how you apply lut in acr?
i thought you have to go flat with visionlog, and then apply a lut in ae.
when i try this, my footage always looks like crap. am i missing something?

You can't apply LUTs in ACR. Post some more details on your workflow/images and we may be able to help.

Great work @simulacro, @hjfilmspeed! Really glad you find VisionLog beneficial to your workflow. (And as a non-photographer it's certainly good to see the profile amounts to more than just a bunch of color matrices) 

This may be obvious but you'll have to re-install the VisionLOG profiles after updating to a new version of Camera Raw. If you had the profile working in a later version and you haven't updated your raw2dng settings it's not likely an EXIF data issue but either the VisionLOG profiles being inexistent or somehow the resource fork information of the profiles got messed up during extraction... I have no idea.

Is using the visiontech or visioncolor profile settings in filmconvert 2.0 recommended to be used on this log profile or is it only intended for the canon image profiles?

That's for the in-camera profiles only. I could send Lance from FilmConvert an Email and ask if they'll create dedicated profiles for VisionLOG footage from the various cameras.

ok, thanks Steven     ...and for the others dng's that say 5dii ?? 

This:

I've Just used the latest Raw2Dng and it works on ACR...

or just use the 5DII profile. The difference to the 7D profile is visually imperceptible.

[any]

Hi,
I have sent a email to [email protected]  with 2 dng's samples for see if i can open ACR with the right profile and use good the VisionsLOG.
Thanks 

The second DNG doesn't have any camera exif data embedded so there's nothing we can do to make VisionLOG compatible (embedding the data manually into each DNG is not an option). Try another Raw to DNG converter - I don't know which one works best but I'm sure others will be able to help you out there.

Steven, can you tell me how much DR the 5DII has?

Around 12 stops.

With what kind of LUT do you grade your footage "back" from LOG - I have not been sucessful yet with grading VisionLog material in AFX.

I'm not a colorist so I don't know. I wouldn't recommend converting back to Rec.709 with a preset though as it's completely against the point of shooting LOG or generating LOG from RAW in the first place.

Tried if it truly eliminates all flickering (have some flicker tests shots that I run through all ACR "flat settings") - but unfortunately there´s still visible flicker left. It´s most probably that "Highlights" slider that still causes it, right?

The profile doesn't eliminate flickering it only makes using image-adaptive tools (like the Highlights conrol) that cause flickering redundant. You won't be able to get any more information out of the image by adjusting any of the UI controls in ACR. Faking an "Alexa ProRes mode" is also rather pointless as the delinerarization and matrix decoding of LOG-C is optimized for the Alexa's sensor, not your Canon's.

[VisionLOG v.2 is now available for download!]

VisionLOG v.2 is now available for download!

http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog

Key features:

• Adjusted gamma response curve to extract sensors entire dynamic range
• Minor tone mapping enhancements
• Included Nikon profiles (for timelapse etc).

Make sure to replace all versions of VisionLOG you have currently installed if you're upgrading from v.1!

[completely remedies flickering]

Also you will find some DNGs I uploaded with the flickering issue here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5710.msg78237#msg78237

Just tested it with v2 of VisionLOG which preserves the sensors entire dynamic range (current version loses a fraction of a stop in the highlights). This should make any image-adaptive adjustments in ACR unnecessary and hence completely remedies flickering (even with the 2012 process). We can include a basic VisionLOG to Rec.709 LUT with the v.2 download for everyone who isn't comfortable with grading LOG footage.

We can convert any Adobe standard dcp profiles for you to work with "canikon" exif data. Send us a .dng file, the name of your camera and Adobe profiles you want converted  to [email protected]

[not directly caused by the profile]

With 60D, I'm getting Canikon too even with the most recent raw2dng but i'm pretty sure this is not a problem with VisionLog but with ML creating EXIF info in RAW files

Confirmed.

The white balance and tint shift some of you are getting with the Canikon version of VisionLOG is not directly caused by the profile. It seems that either the camera, ML or raw2dng embeds these offsets into the RAW files which take effect once any external profile (≠ embedded) which is unknown to ACR outside of the metadata of the dcp profile is loaded. The only work around is to get correct EXIF data for each camera.

We're working on a v2 of VisionLOG atm which preserves more highlight detail to bypass all flickering introduced by the image-adaptive controls in ACR. Updates will be added to the first post in this thread. Stay tuned.

[It would be great]

That s where i downloaded it today, but still got canikon in acr...

Send us a DNG file to [email protected] and we'll extract the exif data from it to compile another profile thats compatible with your current build! We'll also add it to the official download to reduce compability issues in the future.

And yes, it changes WB to 4500 and tint to -22 every time I add vision log. No biggey, just something I need to keep in mind.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Tested it with 4 profiles on 3 machines and can't reproduce the WB and Tint shift.

Another question, as I only own the 5D MK II of all the cameras in your Vision log Folder. Is there any problem if I only have the 5D MK II profile in the folder? I can't really trust automatic adjustments, especially if I only can choose Vision Log, I keep thinking to myself "what if it keeps choosing the wrong camera profile". And could you explain how it knows which camera profile to choose?

Only the profile that matches the EXIF data of your camera will show up in ACR so you won't be able to accidentally choose the wrong version. You can of course delete all other profiles if you know that you won't need them.

It would be great to see some examples of how the VisionLOG profile reduces flickering when compared to flattening the image with the UI tools in ACR. If it does indeed reduce flickering we'll try to adjust the knee of our gamma curve to extract more detail out of the highlights to obviate any additional highlight adjustments in ACR.

Haven't rendered anything out yet to see if this will be a work around for flickering

I've only just heard about the flickering issues with ACR (not a videographer). Does anyone know what causes it?

But noticed it changes White Balance when I click vision log

Are you sure? The profile doesn't usually change the white balance.

you should make some LUTs for resolve if you havent already done so

We have. Rec.709 to LOG LUT comes with our OSIRIS film emulations. I'm told BMD Film works really well with ML RAW footage aswell...

[you]

A LOG curve quite simply provides a more accurate representation of the dynamic range that the sensor of any given camera is actually able to record to allow for more flexibility in post. Since all sensors are different there is no unified LOG standard that all devices adhere to but rather hundreds of them that color grading applications are able to manage because you control them by eye (unless you're working with output simulation LUTs/projector calibration etc but I don't think that's what you're asking)

The profiles automatically restrict the image to a certain range so you can savely adjust white balance, tone shift, highlights, shadows etc to optimize every shot. Contrast, saturation, tone curve and color matrix adjustments override the profiles restrictions because they are applied to the data after the profile.

Everyone: If the profile doesn't work with your camera and current Magic Lantern build due to metadata mismatch please send us a DNG to [email protected] and we'll compile more profiles.

[Supported Software]

Supported Software

These .dcp profiles can be used to convert RAW footage to the VisionLOG color space in:

• Adobe Camera RAW
• Adobe Lightroom

Supported Cameras

Currently works with .dng and .cr2 RAW files from the following cameras:

• Canon EOS 5D Mark II
• Canon EOS 5D Mark III
• Canon EOS 6D
• Canon EOS 7D
• Canon EOS 50D
• Canon EOS 60D
• Canon EOS 100D
• Canon EOS 500D
• Canon EOS 550D
• Canon EOS 600D
• Canon EOS 650D
• Canon EOS 700D
• & older/nightly Magic Lantern Builds w/ wrong EXIF data (Canikon, PHR)
• Nikon D4
• Nikon D600
• Nikon D610
• Nikon D800
• Nikon D3100
• Nikon D3200
• Nikon D7000
• Nikon D7100

Download v.2 now available!

www.vision-color.com/visionlog

3D LUTs optional

We've added two LUTs to the download section on our site. One that converts VisionLOG to Rec.709 (Camera Neutral equivalent) and a LUT for Davinci Resolve users which converts footage set to BMD Film to the VisionLOG color space.

www.vision-color.com/visionlog

Feel free to send us an Email to [email protected] if you have any questions or thoughts!

Cheers,
Steve
www.vision-color.com
www.facebook.com/VISI0NC0L0R
@visioncolorps

calypsob,
I'm not sure I get your question. The RGB values of any image captured on any digital camera using any picture style can be adjusted in post production. The RGB values also change right in camera once there's any movement, a change of lighting, exposure or white balance. If you're talking about black levels, you have the option to shoot with VisionColor (0-255), VisionTech (9-255) or VisionLog (16-255).

nanomad, sent you a pm!

[DeltaVision]

In the spirit of Halloween we've released a gritty black and white film stock emulation for your next film noir and horror productions: DeltaVision has gorgeous filmic contrast and gives some pretty interesting results especially when shooting with high ISOs.
It's completely free and you can download it directly via our facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/VisionColor-Picture-Style/505906336092705

Happy Halloween! 

Andy 600,
I sent you a PM.

Andy600,
thank you for the advice. While the early pre-alpha version of VisionColor (just Vision at the time) has been created in Canon's picture style editor and was based on the Neutral Picture Style, the versions of VisionColor, VisionTech and VisionLog currently available from our website have all been created using professional profiling software similar to how Technicolor and Jorgen Escher (Marvelcine) created their styles. They have only been loaded into the picture style editor to disable subsequent editing. From the brief conversation we had with Giovanni Speranza (John Hope) it seems that his most recent lightform picture styles are also mathmatically programmed rather than designed in the Canon Software but we can't confirm that since he prefers to be quite secretive about his workflow.

Dsp_418,
have you tested it yourself? The videos I posted above have all been color graded in post. The footage shot on VisionColor is meticulously balanced straight out of the camera, which is the whole point of using it. I'm guessing that the greenish bias you're seeing is either the color grade of the videos, your monitor calibration or, if you've tested the styles for yourself, the whitebalance shift of your camera.
VisionColor does not give you any sort of finished, gimmicky look like the cinema picture style for example and has been designed to replace the neutral picture style which has been known to be the best general purpose style for some time now.

Heres another recent example:

What the creator of this awesome trailer has to say about the styles:
"This picture style has completely restored new life into my 7D! I've even stopped using Cinestyle! Mostly because I find the highlights to be handled so much better (...) and the way Visioncolor/Visiontech handles skin is magic.  The dynamics and saturation of the lighting I work under are so extreme I was a little worried but VERY impressed when I saw it pulled back skin so amazingly in post."

I don't mean to hijack this thread for advertising so if it's not cool to share videos and testimonial statements etc feel free to report it to a moderator. 

You also contact me or John directly via the support form on our website and we'll be happy to answer any questions regarding the styles!
Cheers,

Steve

------
www.visioncolor.wordpress.com

Hi Marvin,

VisionColor utilizes the entire tonal range available in the 8-bit coding space, clipping at 0 and 100% luminocity (RGB values of 0,0,0 and 255,255,255) whereas VisionTech performs a slight boost of the blackpoint. (3% or RGB 9,9,9)

Despite popular belief this is not because it gives more latitude (which it doesn't) but to enable the camera to encode color information where in other profiles there would be none. To explain, the internal processing of the picture styles employ the HSL standard which stands for Hue, Saturation and Luminocity. With our picture styles we have seperated the luma range into 20 increments of 5%. It is the lowest 5% that are being boosted in VisionTech so that actual color information (H,S) is preserved where it would otherwise be lost due to luminocity values of 0-2. Shifting the black-point away from 0% luminocity before encoding to 8-bit h.264 enables the camera to suck additional low-light color information out of the sensor. Obviously this electronic boost results in an increase of noise but since our styles are tailored to a specific post-workflow, a little bit of noise should not be a concern and can easily be taken care of by Neat Video.

In short, VisionTech raises the blacks in order to retain low light color information, especially in the red channel to preserve skin tones.
Since the data being shifted towards the lower gamma range falls into the part of the image with the least data being assigned to by the compression, there is little to no poterization introduced in the midtones and highlights which has been our primary concern with all of our styles.

The color contrast of all our picture styles is based on the original colorimetry we programmed for VisionColor but since we utilized different gamma curves for each of our profiles and, as lightness and saturation are co-related, we had to make some adjustments to individual color tones. The main visible difference between VisionTech and VisionColor however is made by in the default in-camera parameters. VisionTech comes with the color tone slider @ 0 whereas VisionColor has it set to -1. You can freely adjust that slider to your liking. (negative values - magenta; positive values - green)

Here are a few examples shot on VisionColor and VisionTech: