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Messages - jgharding

#1
I edited the original post slightly to reflect the findings of more testers, rather than just my own
#2
Quote from: Luzestudio on August 21, 2013, 04:39:56 PM
Hi, Im using the default sharpen preset, it looks better with the lower Dblock (I think that makes the video "less blocky" in a way) and also everything becomes more natural when the video is exported to h.264

Best!

Xermán

Cool I'll give it a try! :) I was trying on some stock 5D ii footage
#3
I just tried Convolution Kernel but I really can't understand what's going on enough to tweak it in a way that is beneficial...

I put the preset in and tried changing things but I can't find a logic to it. It seems easy to make things ugly but I'm struggling to get the subtle results shown in the youtube video above.

I think it could do with a more friendly set of controls...

The sharpen preset is a bit excessive but I don't know how to reduce it...

For me nothing beats Neat Video yet. The luminance only, high-frequency only sharpening is great and almost artifact free. add a bit of mid frequency sometimes and you're good to go! easy and quick.
#4
Yes you can get away with more sharpening,

I like the sharpening in Neat Video due to frequency and channel specific...

What's kernel convolution sharpening mean?

I still need to test that deblock...
#5
I'll give some different Deblock settings a go and mention findings in the edit of the first post. In general I don't mind a lot of noise as long as it's clean noise, not mushed into the picture. That way Neat Video has a lot to work with!
#6
Many thanks! :) The roof shot was a cheap Hague steadicam. I tried to move with his walking rather than make it dead still.

The kitchen shot used two LED panels and window light balanced, the rest is natural. In glad you liked it, thanks so much for the compliments!
#7
Here is my Virgin Media Shorts entry, shot with these settings and VisionColor

http://www.virginmediashorts.co.uk/film/5002/messiah
#8
Excellent, ill amend the top post to mention that GOP3 allows audio in 25p
#9
Ah I suppose lengthening GOP balances between buffer use and card writing. I do like I-frame though, but I suppose GOP 3 is a good compromise...
#10
Cool! If I can repeat that ill change the post, is there a full settings list for up to 160 with audio?
#11
Yes the encoder receives a lower resolution image feed that's been rescaled a few times so it's never true 1080p

I recently started trying sharpness on 1 as well. I've not A/B tested but the idea sounded good to me, since we aren't dealing with raw we could do with a little bit of sharpness "baked in"

I used these settings on another film last weekend. It's looking good! I did find that the camera stops recording in longer takes. Must be the 4GB file limit coming up early...
#12
Yes you can do audio, in that it does function at 25p but If you turn it on with these settings the buffer fills straight away, so I leave it off ;)



#13
*double post*
#14
Quote from: Rick M on July 05, 2013, 03:49:51 PM
Thanks for this guide! I noticed that topic the other day and tried to look over the last few pages to figure out what was going on, but with all those terms being thrown around, I was way lost. Might give this a try soon and see the difference.

Does this build have the audio monitoring for T3i that was added after the last stable version too? Or is this mode something where you can't do audio recording at the same time because it's too much information and stops recording?

Excellent, I'm glad it helped!

I saw many new users in development threads asking similar questions, so I thought it may help.

No audio with these settings I'm afraid. Thanks for pointing it out, I've added it to the post.

I will attempt optimum audio settings too...

EDIT: yes audio does technically work at 25p, but with these settings it overflows the buffer instantly, so I leave it off for best picture...
#15
Ah yes I should add that to the post about buffer warning.

I just figured it may be a good first stop for people trying to get to grips with it, hopefully it will help someone.
#16
That's right, but for now it's fine just to use that build, I gave it about 20 hours or so already and it's good and stable.
#17
Because there are a lot of starter questions in this thread now, I made a new FAQ thread:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6913.0
#18
This post is designed to answer questions about the H264 codec control in one version of Tragic Lantern in a simple and practical way.

After a few posts I made about using bitrate control on the 600D I had a bunch of messages about settings, and development threads were getting busy, so here's a new thread.

Though one could explain these concepts in greater detail, it's of no real practical use to the average user, so here they in plain English.

They are simplified, so lease don't fill the thread with highly technical responses on video encoding, that information is available elsewhere for those who are curious.

WHAT IS IT?

A balancing act of sorts. High bitrate means nicer footage but bigger files. You can adjust the colours more and remove noise more easily. Advanced control of the H264 encoder that tries to make it use as high a bitrate as possible, without fluctuating wildly or stopping recording.

WHY NOT USE RAW?

Raw can be lovely but there are also a lot of compromises (crop sensor, lower resolution, longer workflow) so perfecting H264 is a great way to get higher quality footage from your beloved camera.

H264 is limited because the encoder uses a rather soft image, but these settings will let you get the best from that image.

WHAT DO I NEED?

A 600D, a fast SD card of 45 or 95MBs will guarantee speed, and (currently) this build of 1%'s Tragic Lantern:

https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern/downloads/autoexec.bin-bitrateback

The build is a little older than ones you may be used to so a few things are missing or different. GOP and slice control aren't in the new builds yet but may be at some point, and when they are let me know and alter this thread.

Some other useful things for the 600D are:

The Mosaic Engineering TXi filter, which removes most aliasing and moire, allowing you to make better use of the bitrate. Sometimes it gives Err30 butmost of the time it's amazing. You will still get some moire with exceedingly fine cloth and so on.

The Technicolor Cinestyle Picture Profile and it's LUT, which allows a flatter picture for grading. It's free.

The VisionColor picture profile, which is quite flat but has a nice natural film like tone. It's $6.99. That's a bargain, don't pirate it!

Neat Video denoising plug-in, which can make very high ISOs like 6400 usable when combined with the higher bitrates.

  ;D 8) THE SETTINGS 8) ;D

SOUND OFF
*For maximum image quality at GOP1, don't bother recording sound in camera, deactivate it in Canon menus. Use separate sound.*

IF YOU NEED SOUND use 25p mode and set GOP to 3 instead of 1.

IN SLICE CBR

Lock Slice: Disabled
Min BR: 130
Max BR: 160
Drop by 1: 140
Drop by 3: 145
Taper Rates: Enabled.

IN BITRATE MENU

Mode: CBR
DblockA: -1                  (low noise setting)
Dblockb: -1                  (low noise setting)
PicPC: 0
GOP: 1                         (3 is great too, and saves space)
Bitrate Info: On           (I find it interesting)
BuffWarnLevel: 70%    (just in case)


BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!!

If you don't need to know, it's probably best to to worry. Hey, the important thing is it works! But here's some simplified explanations:

SLICE
Quality. The numbers used are weird, but not that confusing. The lowest numbers (86, 87) try and use as many bits as possible for encoding. The trouble is, if you lock the slice to 87 and give the camera a hugely complex picture the bitrate goes too high, the buffer fills up and recording stops, or quality has to drop for a while. The second of these situation makes the bitrate "bounce" up and down between loads and 40 or so, which means your image goes pixelly every so often.

Slice control lets the camera raise the slice (drop the bitrate) gradually and in a controlled manner if things get too much.

The settings I've provided here have been stress tested very heavily. They keep things at 87 a lot of  the time, but reign it in if the scene becomes too complex. The settings are designed to keep the bitrate below 160 but as high as the camera can keep it without overflowing the buffer in complex scenes.

You can push it harder, but it won't be as stable. These setting have, for me so far, been the most consistant. I recently shot for 15 hours on a fashion video and never had any buffer drops. The average bitrate of the footage was around 100mbps I-frame, which is a lot better than stock.

The buffer can still get too full (resulting in a drop to a very low bitrate and some pixellation) if you shoot a very complex high ISO scene with the slice starting at 87 or so. If you are shooting a complex scene start the slice at 115 or so using the first setting in Slice Control, and the camera will quickly level itself.

GOP

GOP is "group of pictures". To compress more video into less space, some codecs look at one frame, then compare a lot of subsequent frames to it, only storing the bits that have changed. The GOP number is how many are in this group.

So what's the practical result? A long GOP is more efficient, but to my eye tend to look more video like, motion can be a little smeared. I prefer GOP 1, also known as I-frame, as each picture is a whole picture, like a piece of film. The downside here is that file sizes are big, but hey, it looks the best and memory cheap.

GOP 3 is a good compromise and allows sound recording in 25p mode with these settings.

BUFFER

A small memory where the camera stores things before they are written to the SD card. If this fills up, recording will stop. You can use GOP 1 to let frames be written straight to the card, but for some reason GOP 3 seems less hard on buffer. This is reaching the limit of my knowledge. GOP 1 probably stresses the card a lot, but your card will probably be obsolete before it matters. Just format it ater shoots.
#19
Quote from: Scipione205 on June 27, 2013, 06:45:50 PM
jgharding said that he ca use ISO 6400 with is 600D using certain compressions, I'm trying to understand how: I have a 600D and I need to record in very low light, at least ISO 1250 or even 2500, but the noise is too strong (I use flaat, cinestyle and visioncolor).

Sorry I forgot I mention denoising, I take it for granted.

I should have said: ISO 6400 is usable after denoising with Neat Video. The reason the high bitrates help is (speaking simply) the noise is encoded sharply so it's easier for Neat Video to detect and remove.

At default bitrate the noise is mushed into the picture so you can't take it out. That's why ISO6400 is useful with this hack, because the settings I used keep the bitrate cranked to 160mbps continuos.
#20
Tragic Lantern / Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
June 27, 2013, 10:41:05 AM
I can explain these settings in practical terms (ive had a few messages asking me to do just that) but I think ill start a new thread about it

Otherwise I think the recent increase in popularity will result in development threads here being swamped with feature requests and questions about technical terms and their practical applications, which probably won't help devs with shared testing :)
#21
Quote from: jankyy on June 26, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
please help me understand:
is this something that works for Canon 6D, too? where would I find these settings?

thanks - jan

I'm not aware of if such an H264 control mode was implemented in 6D code at all, I'm afraid I can't answer that.
#22
Quote from: 1% on June 21, 2013, 03:01:33 PM
Heh, the old builds I think had sraw + slice.. in theory the most free memory should be in sraw.. so does recording time go up @ slice 87?

New builds still need this, will have to see.. also have to put combine dialog timer hack + slice + sraw memory.. I'm assuming this combination might be good.

I can limit the encoder to around 160mbps cap using slice control. With GOP1 I never fill the buffer. My sound is off, but I'll try it with it on.

Slice control really is brilliant. With:

Min BR: 130
Max BR: 160
Drop 1: 140
Drop 3: 145
Taper Rates: Enabled

PicPC: 0

I never get in trouble. Well, if I have a super complex scene like a carpet all in focus at f22 and ISO6400, and start recording at slice 87 it'll overrun and drop down to highslice, then settle. If I start such a scene at slice 120, it'll settle very quickly, capping around 160mbps and only buffer dropping to a higher slice in an absolute emergency.

These settings let me maintain maximum possible from the stock H264 method. It's a great bit of coding.

I have a SanDisk 95MBs UHS1 card and the TXi filter installed.

#23
Tragic Lantern / Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
June 26, 2013, 12:35:04 PM
Quote from: alephone on June 26, 2013, 07:35:50 AM
So now that this has been out and tested for a little while.  I'm wondering what peoples opinions are when it comes to H.264 vs the RAW on the t3i.

From my own tests I'll be using H264, currently an older build with GOP and slice control.

I stress tested the picture hard and using slice control you can keep the encoder nice and high in GOP 1 (I-frame) mode. This makes ISO 6400 easily usable even in incredibly complex scenes, when using Neat Video to denoise. File sizes are high, but that's OK. It's a full APS-C sensor with a usable codec. It doesn't have full 1080p resolution but it's not bad. I-frame motion cadence is the most film like, as each picture is individual.

You don't have the dynamic range of raw, but raw is very cropped, and kind of removes one of the reasons I started using DSLRs in the first place: the large sensor.

The raw isn't so aliased for me as I have the Mosaic Engineering TXi filter installed, but it's still heavily cropped and low resolution. I could upscale 2.39:1 (I think it was 1024 * something) to 720p with crop bars, but still, the jello appears worse, resolution is lower even after upscaling, and it's really cropped so I'd have to start using crazy wide focal lengths and so on, change lens sets and so on.

The compromises in its current state aren't worth it for me BUT everything changes in the world of Magic Lantern, so keep an eye on it, keep testing for yourself.  8)

Someone may find a way to round some bits on the way the card, 14-bits is pretty opulent. I'd sacrifice some of that colour info for the improved DR and resolution if we could get a 720p crop or similar. But perhaps no-one will be able to do it, perhaps they will.

Experiments with the 650D show it has the ability to write more quickly, so that model may be the best bet. Keep watching and testing... there's currently compromises.

I'm shooting with GOP1 slice control again on Saturday, a fashion film with lots of macro detailed close ups. Again, without the Mosaic TXi filter a Canon DSLR except the 5D iii would be hopeless with fine detailed cloth, all the extra data would be used by false colour and moire hell, so if you have the cash consider that tool.

That's the best roundup I can give.
#24
Tragic Lantern / Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
June 25, 2013, 07:33:43 PM
Quote from: AriLG on June 25, 2013, 05:11:54 PM
Well, I guess we are the exact opposites...

I do consider the inability of the mirror to drop as a problem as I get an ERR30 each time I shut down the camera. and I don't like it.

Back to the topic :

Will the 1024 frame size be back ?

How odd :S yes ERR30 was what I got with the 550D.

I tried some raw recording while in 1080p mode and can confirm that the filter seems to eliminate the aliasing. The only issue is the drastically dropped depth of field from the cropping. Despite the dynaimic range, it loses a lot of its DSLR punch (large sensor look)... damned compromises!

If the GOP and slice control could be added into these new builds along with RAW modules I'd be very happy! It's be nice to have the GOP and slice control in a build that also has zero sharpness and so on available...

As it is the raw capable builds have a few things that the older GOP and slice control build I'm using don't, so I have to swap BIN files to try raw, but go back to GOP and slice for general work. It'd be nice to have parity if possible... but I'm not confident building the bits together to be honest...
#25
Quote from: wenen on June 25, 2013, 02:29:19 PM
1% is it easy to go back to the old build from the new one?
Keep each Autoexec.bat file that you try out stored in different logically named folders on your PC. Then you can swap and test builds as and when you like.