Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => Raw Video => Raw Video Postprocessing => Topic started by: Steven Griffith on October 14, 2013, 02:03:29 PM

Title: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 14, 2013, 02:03:29 PM
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvisioncolor.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F10%2Fml_forum_ad.jpg&hash=ebfe73166021ff76a36299eee3f6785c)
Supported Software

These .dcp profiles can be used to convert RAW footage to the VisionLOG color space in:
Supported Cameras

Currently works with .dng and .cr2 RAW files from the following cameras:
Download v.2 now available!

www.vision-color.com/visionlog (http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog)

3D LUTs optional

We've added two LUTs to the download section on our site. One that converts VisionLOG to Rec.709 (Camera Neutral equivalent) and a LUT for Davinci Resolve users which converts footage set to BMD Film to the VisionLOG color space.

www.vision-color.com/visionlog (http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog)

Feel free to send us an Email to support@vision-color.com if you have any questions or thoughts!

Cheers,
Steve
www.vision-color.com (http://www.vision-color.com)
www.facebook.com/VISI0NC0L0R (http://www.facebook.com/VISI0NC0L0R)
@visioncolorps

Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Joachim Buambeki on October 14, 2013, 03:12:59 PM
Great work guys!

How to use it exaclty, is it best to leave everything at default? When moving any of the tonality control sliders the output isn't true log anymore, right? So I guess apart from white balance one should touch anything except the detail and lens correction tab I suppose.

Thanks for making it free!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 14, 2013, 04:13:24 PM
The profiles automatically restrict the image to a certain range so you can savely adjust white balance, tone shift, highlights, shadows etc to optimize every shot. Contrast, saturation, tone curve and color matrix adjustments override the profiles restrictions because they are applied to the data after the profile.

Everyone: If the profile doesn't work with your camera and current Magic Lantern build due to metadata mismatch please send us a DNG to support@vision-color.com and we'll compile more profiles.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Joachim Buambeki on October 14, 2013, 06:32:40 PM
I am still learning to work with log, but shouldn't you alter the output before heading over to something like Resolve?
If I understood it correctly, log is a curve that is applied to the linear data, if that is the case the grading suite expects that kind of input to make the grading tools work in an optimal way I suppose. If you alter that you kinda screw up the worklflow, don't you?

Could you elaborate on that Steve? I would really appreciate that.

PS: I just bought the M31 LUT to support your work and as an appreciation for giving away the log profile for free. I encourage everyone else that appreciate this profile to do the same.
Looking forward to see more Nikon cameras added. :-)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 14, 2013, 08:45:53 PM
A LOG curve quite simply provides a more accurate representation of the dynamic range that the sensor of any given camera is actually able to record to allow for more flexibility in post. Since all sensors are different there is no unified LOG standard that all devices adhere to but rather hundreds of them that color grading applications are able to manage because you control them by eye (unless you're working with output simulation LUTs/projector calibration etc but I don't think that's what you're asking)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 14, 2013, 09:16:02 PM
Played around with your Log a little and so far I am very impressed. Haven't rendered anything out yet to see if this will be a work around for flickering, but so far it really looks like I'm getting more dynamic range in contrary to lowering contrast etc.

Still feel obliged to adjust the Highlights in different scenes now and then, in those cases I guess there is no work around for flickering (not that there always is). But hey.. Looks like that adds even more dynamic range :)

But noticed it changes White Balance when I click vision log?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 14, 2013, 09:37:00 PM
Sick!!!! I have been following you guys for a while now! you should make some LUTs for resolve if you havent already done so
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 14, 2013, 10:30:04 PM
Quote
Haven't rendered anything out yet to see if this will be a work around for flickering
I've only just heard about the flickering issues with ACR (not a videographer). Does anyone know what causes it?
Quote
But noticed it changes White Balance when I click vision log
Are you sure? The profile doesn't usually change the white balance.
Quote
you should make some LUTs for resolve if you havent already done so
We have. Rec.709 to LOG LUT comes with our OSIRIS film emulations. ;) I'm told BMD Film works really well with ML RAW footage aswell...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Joachim Buambeki on October 14, 2013, 10:54:06 PM
I've only just heard about the flickering issues with ACR (not a videographer). Does anyone know what causes it?
AFAIK that is a problem that occurs if you use use more than the exposure slider and curves, see this thread (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5582609#5582609) and what one of the Adobe developer says:

Quote from: MadManChan2000
Some (many) controls in the Basic panel in PV 2012 are now image-adaptive.  They use the image content itself to determine the range and behavior of the controls.  Highlights, Shadows, and Clarity are among the controls that respond most strongly to the image content.  These were not designed with temporal coherence in mind.  This is why you can expect to see temporal artifacts if you are to try to apply these controls to individual still frames.

For basic tone effects, I would suggest instead using the Parametric and/or Point curves to minimize temporal issues.

So depending on image content you get flicker - beeing severe or not (maybe even invisible).
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: N/A on October 15, 2013, 01:56:39 AM
Can't wait to try this out in combination with the Osiris lut's. Thanks again, fellas.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 15, 2013, 05:37:20 AM
Can you please make more profiles for lightroom! Like say ones that are already graded like your lut packs? I would looooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeee to use them for photog as well! i love the colors of your luts and pic styles. Im thinking dont just make lightroom presets but the profiles would be awesome!!!!! I would gladly pay of these as well!!! Like the m31 lut as a lightroom camera profile would be awesome!!!! I would love to use that for photos too.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 15, 2013, 08:19:55 AM
I've only just heard about the flickering issues with ACR (not a videographer). Does anyone know what causes it?Are you sure? The profile doesn't usually change the white balance. We have. Rec.709 to LOG LUT comes with our OSIRIS film emulations. ;) I'm told BMD Film works really well with ML RAW footage aswell...

As I understand, if you use the 2012 (whatever it's called) in ACR, then ACR will perform some automatic adjustments to each DNG which will/can cause minor flickering, but if you move contrast, highlight, shadows, saturation etc. Then that can severely increase the flickering.

And yes, it changes WB to 4500 and tint to -22 every time I add vision log. No biggey, just something I need to keep in mind.

Another question, as I only own the 5D MK II of all the cameras in your Vision log Folder. Is there any problem if I only have the 5D MK II profile in the folder? I can't really trust automatic adjustments, especially if I only can choose Vision Log, I keep thinking to myself "what if it keeps choosing the wrong camera profile". And could you explain how it knows which camera profile to choose?

Thanks again for the free LOG :) I still very much like it.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 15, 2013, 12:51:29 PM
When i open the dngs in ae, i have a problem... in acr, there is no profile aviable, it s only embedded showing up...how can i change that?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Rewind on October 15, 2013, 01:04:48 PM
When i open the dngs in ae, i have a problem... in acr, there is no profile aviable, it s only embedded showing up...how can i change that?
Probably you are using an obsolete version of raw2dng which saves 'wrong' exif data.
You can tell it by the name of the camera in the title bar:
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fipic.su%2Fimg%2Fimg7%2Ffs%2Fkiss_13kb.1381834614.jpg&hash=dce62f34412b4672abcdc47ffab29868)

If it says 'Canikon' instead of your actual camera, than this is the case.
You can use EXIFtool to write the proper camera information to existing dngs.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 15, 2013, 01:47:02 PM
Yes, that s exactly what i get, canikon.
i tried to search for the latest raw2dng.exe, but did not find it... do you have a link? would be great, thanks!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: RenatoPhoto on October 15, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
i tried to search for the latest raw2dng.exe, but did not find it... do you have a link? would be great, thanks!
RAW Video Post processing [Mac/Win/Linux]
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5404.0
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 15, 2013, 02:08:04 PM
That s where i downloaded it today, but still got canikon in acr...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 15, 2013, 02:29:30 PM
Quote
That s where i downloaded it today, but still got canikon in acr...
Send us a DNG file to support@vision-color.com and we'll extract the exif data from it to compile another profile thats compatible with your current build! We'll also add it to the official download to reduce compability issues in the future.

Quote
And yes, it changes WB to 4500 and tint to -22 every time I add vision log. No biggey, just something I need to keep in mind.
Is anyone else experiencing this? Tested it with 4 profiles on 3 machines and can't reproduce the WB and Tint shift.
Quote
Another question, as I only own the 5D MK II of all the cameras in your Vision log Folder. Is there any problem if I only have the 5D MK II profile in the folder? I can't really trust automatic adjustments, especially if I only can choose Vision Log, I keep thinking to myself "what if it keeps choosing the wrong camera profile". And could you explain how it knows which camera profile to choose?
Only the profile that matches the EXIF data of your camera will show up in ACR so you won't be able to accidentally choose the wrong version. You can of course delete all other profiles if you know that you won't need them.

It would be great to see some examples of how the VisionLOG profile reduces flickering when compared to flattening the image with the UI tools in ACR. If it does indeed reduce flickering we'll try to adjust the knee of our gamma curve to extract more detail out of the highlights to obviate any additional highlight adjustments in ACR.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: reddono on October 15, 2013, 04:25:46 PM
i'm getting 4500 WB as well the canikon problem with the 550d...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: vstrglv on October 15, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
i'm getting 4500 WB as well the canikon problem with the 550d...
the same for me 5D3
raw2dng.exe from  http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5654.0 today download
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 16, 2013, 01:34:45 AM
yeah, I wanna add that I also see get Canikon on my 5d MK II.

Edit: This must have something to do with raw2dng, because I tried importing older shoots and they are correctly marked as 5D MK II and there is no WB or tint shift.

If I delete all the other profiles except 5DII in Vision Log folder, then it won't matter if ACR interprets the DNG as Canikon, am I right?

Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ru31jan on October 16, 2013, 10:46:02 AM
Will CDNG work with this profile?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 16, 2013, 11:41:29 AM
Thanks for this, I did a similar profile based on the 50D neutral preset but yours is much brighter in the highlights. On some shots I find myself still needing to pull down the highlights with the slider, whereas with my profile the highlights are lower.

I don't like using the highlight slider as it introduces flicker. In my experience, using dcp profiles prevents flicker from occurring.

Having said that, I've not seen any white balance issues, it works as it should and my camera is correct in ACR. I process my .RAW files with Rawmagic.

Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ghosts on October 16, 2013, 12:34:39 PM
With 60D, I'm getting Canikon too even with the most recent raw2dng but i'm pretty sure this is not a problem with VisionLog but with ML creating EXIF info in RAW files
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 16, 2013, 01:00:27 PM
I created a new thread for this problem, becuase this one should be used for the visionlog. check it:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8832.msg83225;topicseen#msg83225
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Africashot on October 16, 2013, 01:03:38 PM
I have no problem using Vision log with 5D2 and DNGs converted by BATCHelor, thanks for the profile!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 16, 2013, 02:03:16 PM
Quote
With 60D, I'm getting Canikon too even with the most recent raw2dng but i'm pretty sure this is not a problem with VisionLog but with ML creating EXIF info in RAW files
Confirmed.

The white balance and tint shift some of you are getting with the Canikon version of VisionLOG is not directly caused by the profile. It seems that either the camera, ML or raw2dng embeds these offsets into the RAW files which take effect once any external profile (≠ embedded) which is unknown to ACR outside of the metadata of the dcp profile is loaded. The only work around is to get correct EXIF data for each camera.

We're working on a v2 of VisionLOG atm which preserves more highlight detail to bypass all flickering introduced by the image-adaptive controls in ACR. Updates will be added to the first post in this thread. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 16, 2013, 02:15:25 PM
Keep up the good work, Steven :)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: RenatoPhoto on October 16, 2013, 02:57:36 PM
We're working on a v2 of VisionLOG atm which preserves more highlight detail to bypass all flickering introduced by the image-adaptive controls in ACR. Updates will be added to the first post in this thread. Stay tuned.

Here is a discussion about this subject.
Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5710.0

Also you will find some DNGs I uploaded with the flickering issue here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5710.msg78237#msg78237
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: arrinkiiii on October 16, 2013, 03:09:12 PM
Also from here, Canikon stuff. Later in the night i will upload one dng from 7D.

Thanks and looking forward for experiment the new 2.0
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 16, 2013, 04:08:05 PM
Quote
Also you will find some DNGs I uploaded with the flickering issue here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5710.msg78237#msg78237
Just tested it with v2 of VisionLOG which preserves the sensors entire dynamic range (current version loses a fraction of a stop in the highlights). This should make any image-adaptive adjustments in ACR unnecessary and hence completely remedies flickering (even with the 2012 process). We can include a basic VisionLOG to Rec.709 LUT with the v.2 download for everyone who isn't comfortable with grading LOG footage.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: bnvm on October 16, 2013, 05:00:00 PM
Looking forward to V2. Any tips on a work flow going from AE to Nuke. I brought the dng's into AE applied the visionLog and wrote out a 16 bit tif sequence and brought that into nuke. I then applied the LUT's from Osirus using the vectorfield node but the results are definitely not correct. Colors a washed out and there is a huge loss of contrast. I am sure there is something I am not doing right exporting from AE. Thanks.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 17, 2013, 12:30:28 AM
VisionLOG v.2 is now available for download!

http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog (http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog)

Key features:

Make sure to replace all versions of VisionLOG you have currently installed if you're upgrading from v.1!



Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 19, 2013, 07:57:51 AM
Steven, can you tell me how much DR the 5DII has?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: PressureFM on October 19, 2013, 11:12:52 AM
To quickly access ~Library on OS X, select finder and click on Go and hold down alt and ~Library will appear.

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.andreschmidt.dk%2Fimages%2FLibrary-alt.gif&hash=eac1a95c73d51c452ebb105d3639554c)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: SteveScout on October 19, 2013, 10:33:05 PM
Steve, thanks a lot for your VisionLUT preset! I´m experimenting with all sorts of ACR settings to be able to fake an Alexa-like ProRes mode with ML raw. Tried if it truly eliminates all flickering (have some flicker tests shots that I run through all ACR "flat settings") - but unfortunately there´s still visible flicker left. It´s most probably that "Highlights" slider that still causes it, right?

But I tried it with the "2010 engine", and the flicker was gone - are there any other settings that we might need to change if we were to use the 2010 engine instead of the most recent one?

With what kind of LUT do you grade your footage "back" from LOG - I have not been sucessful yet with grading VisionLog material in AFX. The normal S-curves that inverse the log process seem not to work as well as the other LUTs I´d normally apply. Do you have any kind of advice for us on this?  Thanks a lot!!!

Steffen

Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 20, 2013, 02:26:06 PM
Quote
Steven, can you tell me how much DR the 5DII has?
Around 12 stops.

Quote
With what kind of LUT do you grade your footage "back" from LOG - I have not been sucessful yet with grading VisionLog material in AFX.
I'm not a colorist so I don't know. I wouldn't recommend converting back to Rec.709 with a preset though as it's completely against the point of shooting LOG or generating LOG from RAW in the first place.
Quote
Tried if it truly eliminates all flickering (have some flicker tests shots that I run through all ACR "flat settings") - but unfortunately there´s still visible flicker left. It´s most probably that "Highlights" slider that still causes it, right?
The profile doesn't eliminate flickering it only makes using image-adaptive tools (like the Highlights conrol) that cause flickering redundant. You won't be able to get any more information out of the image by adjusting any of the UI controls in ACR. Faking an "Alexa ProRes mode" is also rather pointless as the delinerarization and matrix decoding of LOG-C is optimized for the Alexa's sensor, not your Canon's.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: arrinkiiii on October 20, 2013, 02:31:58 PM
Hi,

I have sent a email to support@vision-color.com  with 2 dng's samples for see if i can open ACR with the right profile and use good the VisionsLOG. 

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 20, 2013, 02:52:53 PM
Quote
Hi,
I have sent a email to support@vision-color.com  with 2 dng's samples for see if i can open ACR with the right profile and use good the VisionsLOG.
Thanks  :)
The second DNG doesn't have any camera exif data embedded so there's nothing we can do to make VisionLOG compatible (embedding the data manually into each DNG is not an option). Try another Raw to DNG converter - I don't know which one works best but I'm sure others will be able to help you out there.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: arrinkiiii on October 20, 2013, 07:19:39 PM
ok, thanks Steven  :)   ...and for the others dng's that say 5dii ?? 
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: guilhermemartins on October 20, 2013, 07:21:38 PM
I've Just used the latest Raw2Dng and it works on ACR...
Great profile BTW it helps quite a lot.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 20, 2013, 08:50:58 PM
Quote
ok, thanks Steven  :)   ...and for the others dng's that say 5dii ?? 
This:
Quote
I've Just used the latest Raw2Dng and it works on ACR...
or just use the 5DII profile. The difference to the 7D profile is visually imperceptible.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 23, 2013, 04:26:18 AM
Ok so i took this profile used it in acr white balanced and sharpened in acr then exported to tiffs then i pulled up the tiff sequence in davinci and used osiris luts and it seemed way nicer and cleaner then just opening up the dngs in davinci and using the bmc profile. I still dont think resolve is debayering the dngs right. with resolve 10 beta 3 something is still off with the detail. acr is just way cleaner in my opinion.  but i love osiris luts! gahhh im sooo torn. I also liked the color better with you vision log profile vs resolves bmc profile. I know there is a vision log lut for davinci but we can use it as our starting point.... or can we. is there anyway to use your vision log profile instead of the bmc film profile as our starting point in resolve?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: kgv5 on October 23, 2013, 08:12:55 AM
Ok so i took this profile used it in acr white balanced and sharpened in acr then exported to tiffs then i pulled up the tiff sequence in davinci and used osiris luts and it seemed way nicer and cleaner then just opening up the dngs in davinci and using the bmc profile. I still dont think resolve is debayering the dngs right. with resolve 10 beta 3 something is still off with the detail. acr is just way cleaner in my opinion.  but i love osiris luts! gahhh im sooo torn. I also liked the color better with you vision log profile vs resolves bmc profile. I know there is a vision log lut for davinci but we can use it as our starting point.... or can we. is there anyway to use your vision log profile instead of the bmc film profile as our starting point in resolve?

I have the same thoughts. BMD film looks different than VisionLOG in ACR, more contrasty and saturated, after applying LUT obviously giving some other results. So is there visionLOG LUT for Davinci Resolve? Could you post a link, i cannot find it and have it only for ACR. Thanks
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 23, 2013, 10:18:33 AM
I have the same thoughts. BMD film looks different than VisionLOG in ACR, more contrasty and saturated, after applying LUT obviously giving some other results. So is there visionLOG LUT for Davinci Resolve? Could you post a link, i cannot find it and have it only for ACR. Thanks

There is a VisionLOG Lut in this package, you could use that in Resolve.

http://vision-color.com/m31/ (http://vision-color.com/m31/)

I also find ACR debayering a lot cleaner than Resolve, which is a shame as the Resolve workflow is quicker.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 23, 2013, 03:34:44 PM
There is a VisionLOG Lut in this package, you could use that in Resolve.

http://vision-color.com/m31/ (http://vision-color.com/m31/)

I also find ACR debayering a lot cleaner than Resolve, which is a shame as the Resolve workflow is quicker.
I have this lut but i cant use it as a starting point. Or at least i dont know how.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 23, 2013, 05:31:06 PM
I have this lut but i cant use it as a starting point. Or at least i dont know how.

Goto settings (gear icon)
Click on 'Lookup tables'
Under the '3D input LUT' dropdown, change this to VisionLOG

Now when you select BMDFilm in the raw clip settings it will change to VisionLOG instead of BMDFilm. You can then apply your LUT of choice to a node.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 23, 2013, 08:02:25 PM
ooooo awesome!!! thank you!!!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 24, 2013, 12:50:58 AM
Maybe i am overworked at the moment...
if i apply visionlog in acr, do i tweak the image like i want it in the settings? isnt the idea of log that the picture comes out flat in acr, and i apply a lut?
when i do this, does the vision log only work with lut from you guys? i tried the hunters lut in ae, but this wrecked my picture up like crazy
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 24, 2013, 01:38:37 AM
I think the idea of the log profile for acr is so you can adjust the WB then export to tiff sequence and grade elsewhere. or you can grade in LR too.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 24, 2013, 01:50:56 AM
unless i am in 14 bit the whole time, like importing to a 16 bit ae sequence, and importing this sequence via dynamik link into premiere for editing and cc for example
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 24, 2013, 10:21:07 AM
unless i am in 14 bit the whole time, like importing to a 16 bit ae sequence, and importing this sequence via dynamik link into premiere for editing and cc for example

If you have AE, then I would export as a Prores 444 or DNXHD .mov file at 12bit. You can then take your LOG files into your editing software and then grade then in Premiere or Resolve etc.

16bit Tiff sequences take up a lot of HDD space.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 24, 2013, 10:54:04 AM
There isn t a dnxhd 12 bit, it only does 10 bit.
prores is mac only.
with the method to import the sequences from ae into pp, you get full colour range and don t have to export any files which will fill up your hdd
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 24, 2013, 11:48:52 AM
There isn t a dnxhd 12 bit, it only does 10 bit.
prores is mac only.
with the method to import the sequences from ae into pp, you get full colour range and don t have to export any files which will fill up your hdd

If you want to keep the 14bits then you might aswell just keep it as a dng sequence rather than exporting to a 16bit tiff sequence.

A 10 bit LOG DNXHD file will give you lots of flexibility in grading, so unless you plan on really pushing the image around like crazy then you're not going to notice a huge difference between grading 10bit LOG vs a 16 bit tiff sequence. (apart from massive file sizes)

What is it that you are actually asking?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 24, 2013, 12:23:00 PM
i never wanted to export a tiff sequence.
it s just a overall-workflow question to diskuss and see which workflows are the best for different systems.
i think there are 3 ways-
-importing the footage into davinci (cdng or via the nice vision log profile)
-exporting from acr via vision log into a uncompressed videofile via the log, opening in pp, davinci or something else to cut and grade
-opening the ae dng sequence in premiere, if you just want to use these 2 programs. this avoids exporting and having new files which blast your hdd.cutting and cc in premiere.

i did some heavy grading tests and watched the rgb parade. with the gaps in it, you can compare how much the footage holds up in grading.
there were no differences between lets say uncompressed avi yuv 10bit and the original 14 bit footage from acr. only the end of the highlights were somoother in 14 bit.
so  i totally agre with you that there is no main difference when you export the footage in 10 bit.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 24, 2013, 12:42:29 PM
I'd really like to be able to use the Resolve workflow but the debayer quality is still pretty poor.

So at the moment I am using the AE/ACR option and exporting to Prores 444 with the VisionLOG profile. I then cut in premiere and grade in Resolve. I'm working on a LUT to use as a base for grading.

Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 24, 2013, 01:44:30 PM
How do you go from premiere to resolve?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 24, 2013, 02:58:18 PM
How do you go from premiere to resolve?

Export an xml from Premiere and then import and conform that in Resolve.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on October 24, 2013, 04:01:31 PM
I'd really like to be able to use the Resolve workflow but the debayer quality is still pretty poor.

So at the moment I am using the AE/ACR option and exporting to Prores 444 with the VisionLOG profile. I then cut in premiere and grade in Resolve. I'm working on a LUT to use as a base for grading.

I agree. Acr debayers way better. Can you batch export from AE? Is it any faster then exporting to tiffs straight from acr?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 24, 2013, 05:21:09 PM
I agree. Acr debayers way better. Can you batch export from AE? Is it any faster then exporting to tiffs straight from acr?

I'm not sure about that, it would be quite handy. I wonder if there is a way to apply an action in AE like you can in Photoshop.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 24, 2013, 07:26:07 PM
Yes, it s pretty easy. Check the tutorial from Andrew Kramer about proxys, it s well explained.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 25, 2013, 11:46:01 AM
Yes, it s pretty easy. Check the tutorial from Andrew Kramer about proxys, it s well explained.

But does this method allow you to automate the whole camera raw process? Open dng sequence in camera raw, apply a LOG camera profile and then render out to prores?

I'll have a look on Kramer's site.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 25, 2013, 04:08:34 PM
No, it s just about rendering out the debayered footage.
actually i have the same problem, 140 files to import, debayer and safe..
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: bnvm on October 25, 2013, 06:08:34 PM
OK so here is the most automated way I can find to batch export from AE. This works in CC, may work in older versions but cannot test.

Setup:
Open any dng and change any settings that you want to be used on all footage. For me this would be setting white balance to auto and camera profile to VisionLog. Now on the bar right above were the adjustment controls are, labeled "basic" on the white balance tab, click on the part that looks like page with  a down arrow. Once in there choose the set new defaults. Now the current settings will be used from now on. Note the defaults will only be used on footage never opened with ACR on the computer. ACR must store the settings used somewhere and will remember what was previously chosen.

Create a output preset in media encoder and/or a output module preset in after effects to use during export.

1. From file menu choose scripts->smart import.jcx and navigate to the root folder that has all the footage. This script will import any file it can in the folder and is recursive so it will import from nested folders as well. It will open ACR for every sequence so you will have to hit ok for every sequence. You can also put something on your keyboard to hold down the enter key if you don't want to sit around a hit ok for every sequence.

2. Select the first dng sequence and hit ctrl+alt+g to go to the interpret footage dialog. Make any needed adjustments.
3. With same sequence selected hit ctrl+alt+c or goto interpret footage->remember interpretation.
4. Select the rest of the sequences and hit ctrl+alt+v or go to interpret footage->apply interpretation. This will apply the adjustments done in 2 to all footage.

5. select all sequences and drag them onto the icon below the project window that looks like a film strip and choose multiple compositions. This will make a comp for every sequence.

6. click on the 8 bpc button and choose 16 bit or 32 bit and save.

From here there are 2 options export from AE or Media Encoder. After effects is faster especially if you have multi-processing turned on, media encoder does a better job of encoding. If you are writing out intermediates in something like DNxHD I would use AE, for finals in H.264 I would use Media Encoder, etc...

7. AE: select all compositons and hit ctrl+m or composition->make movie. With all outputs selected in the queue change the output module to the preset of choice. They will all change at once since they are all selected. Go to scripts->change render locations.jcx and choose your output path and hit render.

7. ME: select all comps in AE and drag them into Media Encoder, choose preset and press play.

That is it, using this process you can deal with a large amount of footage fairly easily.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ilia on October 26, 2013, 04:23:19 AM
put the Vision log in the camera profiles folder, but only get embedded as option in ACR. What am I doing wrong? Im on a mac.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Africashot on October 26, 2013, 10:38:01 AM
Is using the visiontech or visioncolor profile settings in filmconvert 2.0 recommended to be used on this log profile or is it only intended for the canon image profiles?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ilia on October 26, 2013, 04:14:33 PM
When I import dngs converted with Rawmagic I can only see the Canon picture profiles, no visionLog.  I put the folder in Camera Profiles. The thing I noticed is that the profiles already there are document dcp files, while the visionLog are Unix Executable File dcp. Is this whats causing the problem? I'm on a mac.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 27, 2013, 12:28:31 AM
Quote
Is using the visiontech or visioncolor profile settings in filmconvert 2.0 recommended to be used on this log profile or is it only intended for the canon image profiles?
That's for the in-camera profiles only. I could send Lance from FilmConvert an Email and ask if they'll create dedicated profiles for VisionLOG footage from the various cameras.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: guilhermemartins on October 27, 2013, 02:46:09 AM
Ive just updated my ACR to 8.2 and visionlog profile has vanished from where it used to be :(.  Any thloughts on geting it back? Kindda hard to be without it once you had it. Good job btw, makes us feel like with mini Alexas  ;D.
Cheers!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ilia on October 27, 2013, 03:46:13 AM
Ive just updated my ACR to 8.2 and visionlog profile has vanished from where it used to be :(.  Any thloughts on geting it back? Kindda hard to be without it once you had it. Good job btw, makes us feel like with mini Alexas  ;D.
Cheers!

I'm also running 8.2 and not working.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Africashot on October 27, 2013, 09:09:23 AM
That's for the in-camera profiles only. I could send Lance from FilmConvert an Email and ask if they'll create dedicated profiles for VisionLOG footage from the various cameras.

that would be absolutely awesome! Thanks for all your work!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 27, 2013, 11:48:37 AM
I'm also running 8.2 and not working.

I'm running 8.2 and it is working

It all depends on your raw2dng. Some raw2dng's have hardcoded Canon profile information.

Others have none and will not include any camera information other than Embedded. 

You need to find a raw2dng for your model, which can be very hard. my best advice is you search your own computer first, for "raw2dng", see what versions come up and convert just a few frames with each version to see if any cam info is applied. ctrl+a will abort and ctrl+c will exit the raw2dng. This helped me find a version that worked with my camera.

You can also manually add EXIF data, but you got ask one of the brains here about that, I have no idea how to do that.

Hope this helps :)

 
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ilia on October 27, 2013, 03:19:22 PM
I tried converting with raw2dng .13 and rawmagic and neither worked.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on October 27, 2013, 05:59:54 PM
This may be obvious but you'll have to re-install the VisionLOG profiles after updating to a new version of Camera Raw. If you had the profile working in a later version and you haven't updated your raw2dng settings it's not likely an EXIF data issue but either the VisionLOG profiles being inexistent or somehow the resource fork information of the profiles got messed up during extraction... I have no idea.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ilia on October 27, 2013, 06:28:53 PM
so it doesn't work with Rawmagic?  how do you update raw2dng settings to recognize your camera?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 28, 2013, 11:17:46 AM
so it doesn't work with Rawmagic?  how do you update raw2dng settings to recognize your camera?

It works fine with Rawmagic.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 28, 2013, 08:50:50 PM
raw2dng for 5D MK II

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29qkvnf3pa1c6b7/raw2dng.exe
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: simulacro on October 28, 2013, 10:45:14 PM
I had some shots that i didn't plan to use, because they were just tests, and seeing this LOG profile I thought it was a good chance to recycle them. For me, it was a very good help to use the profile. Right now, working raw video is another dimension. The shot that amazed me the most is this one:
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-k4klYy7gv1I%2FUm7VYo_N2_I%2FAAAAAAAACVU%2FMjsgNs3U_eI%2Fs1024%2F0test_log1.jpg&hash=a5f03af780d724d4b67e7a71a57a53f6)

When I shot it, the highlights on the lcd screen were totally blown out, and thought that it was going to be useless. When I opened it, the highlight detail was there.

This is the shot with the VisionLOG applied

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Flh4.googleusercontent.com%2F-blUheEnhkw8%2FUm7VYl-P_CI%2FAAAAAAAACVM%2FsVIuxC35Nts%2Fs1024%2F0test_log2.jpg&hash=c98dc183a7632a430c09cece62077f6c)

Color corrected

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-Q72dGbNZIQk%2FUm7VY-KB3YI%2FAAAAAAAACVQ%2FVJ_wnQMBCEM%2Fs1024%2F0test_log3.jpg&hash=d382ec2bb9ec0c9d1ca716d917a26369)

The test
:

Canon 50d, Helios 44, Son of a batch; edited proxies in Premiere, sequence imported in AE for color correction
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: togg on October 28, 2013, 11:54:28 PM
Any chance to have this without passing through ACR? There's no way to have it directly in Resolve? Noob question probably :))
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 29, 2013, 10:46:45 AM
Any chance to have this without passing through ACR? There's no way to have it directly in Resolve? Noob question probably :))

Read my post a couple of pages back.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rockfallfilms on October 29, 2013, 10:48:22 AM


The test
:

Canon 50d, Helios 44, Son of a batch; edited proxies in Premiere, sequence imported in AE for color correction

Did you used warp stabiliser? On some of those shots the lower part of the frame is wobbling.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: simulacro on October 29, 2013, 12:22:48 PM
Some of the shots were so shaky (5x crop mode) that i tried to correct them with the stabilization tool in AE cs5. Totally useless
This was only to show the result of the VisionLog
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dude on October 29, 2013, 12:58:03 PM
The good thing on (mkiii) raw is that you can scale it up, the warp stabilizer is crap in my eyes, try to use the scaling- only method, with that you avoid wobbeling
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: togg on October 29, 2013, 03:25:57 PM
Read my post a couple of pages back.

Yea thanks!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: simulacro on October 29, 2013, 06:21:41 PM
The good thing on (mkiii) raw is that you can scale it up, the warp stabilizer is crap in my eyes, try to use the scaling- only method, with that you avoid wobbeling

Thanks, i'll check it out.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on October 29, 2013, 10:01:58 PM
Newest raw2dng with Cam Profile for 5D2 with Median Algorithm.

Thanks to a.d.

5d2_raw2dng.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13314708/5d2_raw2dng.zip)

For Mac and Win
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hjfilmspeed on November 02, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
So I have been a huge fan of your LUTs pictstyles ect for a while now. And I love this log profile!  its great for stills too! I use it on my 5d3 cr2s to flatten the image, then I bring it into photoshop to grade. Check it out!!!

http://jonathandenicholas.wordpress.com/2013/10/31/self-portraits/

http://jonathandenicholas.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/heather-sleeping/ (iso3200)

Thank you so much for this awesome profile!!!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on November 04, 2013, 05:48:27 PM
Great work @simulacro, @hjfilmspeed! Really glad you find VisionLog beneficial to your workflow. (And as a non-photographer it's certainly good to see the profile amounts to more than just a bunch of color matrices)  ;)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: sammyb on November 08, 2013, 07:57:54 AM
Love this! Big fan of Vision, been shooting on you're profiles for awhile now and now that I'm doing RAW on my 5DMK3 this log profile is perfect! I color grade with FilmConvert however, so does anyone know the closest camera profile in FilmConvert I could use? Or well just have to wait for FilmConvert to bring out a profile?

EDIT: Flicked back a bit and read it needs a dedicated profile in Film Convert to be simulated correctly. Hopefully well see it in their soon! Vision Color should kindly ask if they could implement it ;)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: mrnv45 on November 08, 2013, 08:56:36 AM
u got to upgrade your camera packs
in film convert
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: sammyb on November 08, 2013, 09:17:50 AM
u got to upgrade your camera packs
in film convert

Huh? I'm running the latest version of FilmConvert, as far as I know a profile for Vision Color Log in Film Convert doesn't exist yet.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: mrnv45 on November 08, 2013, 05:46:56 PM
oh i mean if you want a accurate profile in Filmconvert, they have camera packs to download.  to choose multiple camera models settings
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: simulacro on November 08, 2013, 08:32:50 PM
Great work @simulacro, @hjfilmspeed! Really glad you find VisionLog beneficial to your workflow. (And as a non-photographer it's certainly good to see the profile amounts to more than just a bunch of color matrices)  ;)

I have a little shortfilm edited, soon i'll show the result applying the VisionLog on AE
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: mrnv45 on November 08, 2013, 11:16:49 PM
visionlog profile with a little bit of touch up > film convert to grade

Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: arturochu on November 09, 2013, 01:49:54 AM
which source camera setting in filmconvert do you recommend for visionlog? i think technicolor its the most accurate am i right?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: mrnv45 on November 09, 2013, 05:05:27 AM
i just use the canon - standard. i dont have the full version with all the add ons..
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: giarcpnw on November 25, 2013, 06:28:08 AM
Hey guys, I have raw2dng.13 and rawmagic. Photoshop 6 and Lightroom 5. ACR 8.2 and I have dropped the VisionLog profile folder in the CameraProfiles folder of the CameraRaw folder. I can not get VisionLog to show up under the profiles in ACR when it opens one of my DNGs in Photoshop. I only get the standard canon profiles. What the heck am i doing wrong?

Thanks

C
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: mrnv45 on November 25, 2013, 08:45:46 AM
you have to go to your

proper user directory there is one that shows LIBRARY and then one that doesnt... cause its hidden... you have to un hide that using easiest way to temporarily reveal the ~/Library folder is to open Finder.

 On the menu bar, at the top, select Go to reveal the drop-down menu and then hold down the Option key (marked ALT) and you will see the ~/Library folder appear. You may now select this ~/Library folder with your mouse or trackpad.

As soon as you release the Option key, the ~/Library folder will be hidden once more.

then follow the library>blah>blah>profiles  and put it in that folder...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: giarcpnw on November 25, 2013, 05:56:46 PM
So many hours banging head on desk. Thank you!!!!!!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: mrnv45 on November 25, 2013, 10:28:03 PM
trust me, i know... i was there 2 weeks ago lol
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: SteveScout on December 03, 2013, 03:02:58 AM
Hey, Steven, thanks again for your great work on VISIONLOG.

For everyone interested in working with this preset I put together a detailed workflow description on how to process the files in After Effects and how to de-log the images later in color correction or in editing.

Check it out and let me know if I can make improvements to the article!

http://hackermovies.com/hackermovies-magic-lantern-raw-workflow-guide


Steffen
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Andy600 on December 05, 2013, 02:18:22 PM
@Steven Griffith - Hey Steven. I've been using your very useful Log DCP on the 50D but it has issues with red highlights turning vibrant pink. It's definitely the DCP that causes the issue because it doesn't happen with Canon DCP recipes or in Davinci Resolve. Hope you can fix it because the log profile in ACR gives the best results.

See this thread: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9461.msg90793;topicseen#msg90793 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9461.msg90793;topicseen#msg90793)


Cheers

Andy
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hmcindie on December 08, 2013, 04:05:59 PM
Remember guys that if you don't change the color output in AE to Trillions of colors, it will still render in 8 bits (inside a 10 bit file). It's not enough to change the codec to 10bits and make sure the project is 16. The output setting has to be Trillions instead of Millions.

I wonder how many people have actually been rendering 8-bit all along thinking it was 10-bit and never noticing any problems.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: evanamorphic on December 14, 2013, 07:36:01 PM
Great work @simulacro, @hjfilmspeed! Really glad you find VisionLog beneficial to your workflow. (And as a non-photographer it's certainly good to see the profile amounts to more than just a bunch of color matrices)  ;)

Are there any plans of releasing something like VisionLOG for Resolve 10? While I do love the ACR output of VisionLOG files, the workflow and length of time it takes to process the DNGs is rather impractical...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Midphase on January 19, 2014, 08:40:21 AM
Are there any plans of releasing something like VisionLOG for Resolve 10? While I do love the ACR output of VisionLOG files, the workflow and length of time it takes to process the DNGs is rather impractical...

There is a VisionLOG Lut in this package, you could use that in Resolve.

http://vision-color.com/m31/
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Midphase on January 19, 2014, 09:03:05 AM
I'm kinda confused. So I just bought the M31 LUT package hoping that this would get me a similar result in Resolve as I am in ACR, but unfortunately this is not the case.

When I use Vision LOG in Aftereffects, I get this:

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmbkproductions.com%2Fclients%2FLOG%2FACR_VISIONLOG.png&hash=183d47e6f236695eebacaf7b7937177f)

When I use Vision LOG in Resolve I get this:

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmbkproductions.com%2Fclients%2FLOG%2FDAVINCI_VISIONLOG.png&hash=b1f0e18194236f0a3f9b52b40b2e44ac)

And when I use the regular Resolve ML raw settings (CinemaDNG, BMD Film) I get this:

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmbkproductions.com%2Fclients%2FLOG%2FDAVINCI_BMDFILM.png&hash=c8bf8af8b686ccbe5424bb04773eb611)

What exactly is going on here?

I'm trying to export ProResHQ files as close to LOG as possible from a shoot we just did using ML raw on 7D's and 5D3's. There is (unfortunately) a pretty good chance that the project will stick with ProResHQ all the way through the color grading stage and finishing. I would like to give the production as much information in those ProResHQ files as possible since there's a pretty good chance they will not go back to the CDNG files for final grade.

I would prefer to do all the conversions in Resolve. Using Aftereffects and ACR is not particularly desirable as it could add days to my work schedule and they have definitely not budgeted for that. In Resolve I can bring everything in, set it up for export and it's easy and fast.

Any ideas?

Many thanks!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: avasarin on January 19, 2014, 10:07:56 AM
I would prefer to do all the conversions in Resolve. Using Aftereffects and ACR is not particularly desirable as it could add days to my work schedule and they have definitely not budgeted for that. In Resolve I can bring everything in, set it up for export and it's easy and fast.

Any ideas?

Many thanks!
Hi Midphase,
I agree with you when you want to do all the conversions in Resolve.
I think that ACR and resolve manage differently the RAW information of DNGs. Have you try to balance the shot after the LOG or BMD film conversion? I mean, if you want a starting point bright as the ACR one, can't you simply raise your gain and highlight and push them where you want? I'm just supposing. You can always refer to the scopes.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Midphase on January 19, 2014, 04:34:48 PM
if you want a starting point bright as the ACR one, can't you simply raise your gain and highlight and push them where you want? I'm just supposing. You can always refer to the scopes.

Sure, but the question is...is this going to give the largest amount of information to the colorist or am I actually doing more damage by increasing noise and possibly blowing out highlights?

I'm trying to figure out the most efficient, yet truest to the original CDNG way to create ProRes files for the post production pipeline.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: avasarin on January 19, 2014, 11:17:11 PM
I'm not a technician, so I can't tell you which LOG conversion will give you the most of the image information, but I can share my experience.
I'm grading in Davinci resolve natively DNGs, with BMD raw conversion, and then I apply a custom LUT, and you can find it here:
.
I suppose that you can convert all your footage with BMD and export it let's say PRORES 4444, and then you can give the colorist this LUT here as a starting point. Results are quite impressive. And I think that PRORES 4444 will give you and the colorist all the latitude you need.

Here you can see the BMD flat.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9ifu08jc69dcze/BDM%20flat.png

Here with the Hunter's LUT applied.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pdin95o7ex1127b/BDM%20LUT%20applied.png

And here with some grading.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vg02zacl2vnun3g/BDM%20LUT%20graded.png

This is done working with DNG, but I think that PRORES 4444 will give you the same results.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Midphase on January 20, 2014, 01:23:47 AM
I get what you're saying.

I'm dealing with two issues here:

1. The production might grade on the ProRes files I give them as opposed to going back to CDNG's and I'm concerned about doing some damage to the video image by applying the wrong LUT or wrong settings in Resolve.

2. The Blackmagic/BMD settings in Resolve yield a really crappy image to edit to. Not flat mind you, just extremely dark.

3. I really would prefer to drag everything into Resolve to output rather than go through ACR. There are hundreds of files that I need to covert and it's simply not feasible for me to use ACR which adds that much extra work for each shot.

I am not expecting perfection, but I would like to use Resolve and export Quicktime ProResHQ files (ProRes 4444 seems like a waste since there isn't an alpha channel on the footage) that contain as much information from the CDNG files as possible. I am really liking the look I'm getting in ACR with VisionLOG, now how do I get close to that with Resolve?

FWIW, I am finding that by changing the settings in Resolve as follows:

CinemaDNG
Color Space: Rec709
Gamma: sRGB
Highlight Recovery: On

and inserting the VisionLOG LUT I get an image that is considerably closer (but not quite) to what I get in ACR....but is it true LOG or even close to containing the amount of information needed for a good grade?

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmbkproductions.com%2Fclients%2FLOG%2FDAVINCI_REC709.png&hash=b219c16c695e229ed5ddefd69b5e35a3)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: avasarin on January 27, 2014, 07:53:41 AM
When you can output in a lossless codec(PRORES 422 HQ, f.e.) you will be just fine while color grading.
The point is that if you have a starting image with deep color information and wide color latitude and you can export preserving them (with PRORES 422 you can do this), you'll have this information on the exported files to play with in Davinci. Once again, I'm not a technician, I rely just on my experience.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: iaremrsir on January 27, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
If I understand correctly, you're using the M31 LUT trying to convert your footage to log? Is it a utility LUT like the one that comes with OSIRIS, called REC709 to Log? Or is it M31 Log? Because the latter will take a log input and transform it to REC709 with the M31 color transform, while the former takes REC709 and puts it into a log color space.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Alex Parkinson on January 28, 2014, 12:06:34 PM
Hi all,

I'd love some help. I'm sure it's a simple issue but has anyone got any ideas on what I'm doing wrong as I can't access the vision log profile in either After effects or lightroom.
I've put the vision log folder in Hard Drive/library/application support/adobe/cameraRaw/cameraProfiles/visionLOG

Any help would be awesome.

Ta
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: nick.p on January 28, 2014, 12:28:21 PM

Hard Drive/library/application support/adobe/cameraRaw/cameraProfiles/visionLOG
You have to put it in the user library. Try hd/yourusername/library/youknowtherest
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Alex Parkinson on January 28, 2014, 01:07:27 PM
Got it now.

I had to unhide my hidden folders.

All good. Thanks
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on January 31, 2014, 04:40:34 PM
Midphase,
sorry for not responding earlier but I just came across your posts. We've actually created a very accurate LUT to get BMD Film to the VisionLOG gamma and color space. While the resulting images are almost identical low light color response in the ACR-debayered versions is slightly better. Here's an example my colleague prepared to demonstate the effect of the LUT and the gradeability of the resulting image (compressed source, obviously).

(1 - BMD Film color space & gamma in Resolve, 2 - BMD2VisionLOG LUT added in a node, 3 - Primary CC with an Osiris LUT thrown in):
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvisioncolor.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F01%2Fbmdfilmvisionlog-test2.jpg&hash=2fb368c9f4bb1eedb68e8e3fb3487a3e)

We'll add a free download link to the VisionLOG page (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) within the next few hours.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rtf on February 08, 2014, 09:17:49 AM
Is there already a solution for the raw2dng converter not embedding the camera EXIF data in ACR? I get the canikon, like some others here.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on February 10, 2014, 08:44:04 PM
Quote
Is there already a solution for the raw2dng converter not embedding the camera EXIF data in ACR? I get the canikon, like some others here.
We've actually included a Canikon (capital C) profile but I'm not sure if there are other restrictions that would prevent VisionLOG from showing up. In case your exif data lables the camera model "canikon" (no capital C) try to add this profile to the folder and see if it shows up in ACR: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp (http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: jacktortuga on February 11, 2014, 09:31:32 AM
help guys, i tried downloading the vision log and copied it my CameraRaw folder. i opened lightroom 5 but it still wasnt there at the Camera Calibration.
tried restarting lightroom multiple times with no avail. it wont load.

Im using a Macbook Pro 2011 with a Lightroom 5
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rtf on February 11, 2014, 02:18:30 PM
We've actually included a Canikon (capital C) profile but I'm not sure if there are other restrictions that would prevent VisionLOG from showing up. In case your exif data lables the camera model "canikon" (no capital C) try to add this profile to the folder and see if it shows up in ACR: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp (http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp)

Thanks. Got it all working by using the MLV Converter 1.8.1. and updating ACR. It's a great profile.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Steven Griffith on February 17, 2014, 11:47:18 AM
BTW since the VisionLOG to Rec.709 LUT (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) outputs essentially the Prolost Flat gamma and gamut you can use it for a color accurate Filmconvert workflow!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: chrishelms on February 19, 2014, 08:44:24 PM
Hey there,

I'm just trying out the following workflow:

MLRAW -> CDNG -> DAVINCI (interpret as BMD Film for Color and Gamma) -> BMDFilm to VisionLOG -> Export to ProRes 422 HQ

When I use a LUT like M31 through LUT Buddy in Premiere the image has a lot of noise

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFb8cJTkl.jpg&hash=5d831f0ce6de5fb0ee24c5e286d7f05b)

Premiere applied LUT to VISIONLOG Davinci (bigger size http://i.imgur.com/Fb8cJTk.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Fb8cJTk.jpg))

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhyxcpQVl.jpg&hash=79fd198e66260cd8c4c406b0356ec30f)
Original DNG

The footage is very dark so not ideal to judge the noise but I noticed a strong noise pattern on shadows in correctly exposed footage as well.


UPDATE I just looked at the ACR workflow, applying the VISIONLOG LUT in After Effects to the same clip and the Noise profile is much less visible. The debayer definately still makes a big difference between Davinci and ACR. I still think I'm going to go with the Davinci worflow since we have quick turnarounds and lots of data to process. I guess I have to learn ETTR to avoid the noise!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: joaomoutinho on March 06, 2014, 03:29:24 PM
Hi guys,

So, I am trying to set a good RAW workflow, and it seems to be endless possibilities of doing everything before even start, I would like to give a wrap up of my understanding, just to make a review on what should be the "perfect workflow" 

1- Use rawanizer to convert .RAW into .DNG

2- Use AfterEffects to make the "videos"  (use the AdobeCameraRaw and choose VisionColor camera profile) - Open the neatvideo noise reduction and reduce the noise - Use a grain image (like rGrain stocks) and apply to the composition  -  Export in uncompressed mode (is this correct?!)

3- Inport this videos to Davinci resolve and, because you are working in the BMDFilm Color space - apply the BMDFilm-Visioncolor LOG lut  - than do the colour work and transform things like you want to.

4- Export in DNxHD 185mbit    And Voilá,   You have the video with the best possible Quality.


Am I completely wrong? Just because I never seem to get the quality I watch in some videos of the Magic Lantern community! It is really a bad feeling...  Hope we can talk about the "best universal way to get things done"


Thanks a lot guys!!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Luiz Roberto dos Santos on March 06, 2014, 05:03:04 PM
Hi guys,

[...] Use a grain image (like rGrain stocks) and apply to the composition  -  Export in uncompressed mode (is this correct?!)

3- Inport this videos to Davinci resolve and, because you are working in the BMDFilm Color space - apply the BMDFilm-Visioncolor LOG lut  - than do the colour work and transform things like you want to. [...]

So, I use this workflow too, but, I believe there are two points where you went wrong in your flow: application of grain and color space.
Every type of texture is applied after the color grade, otherwise it will have a negative effect on texture.
What about the color space, you must work with the same color space throughout the flow. Note that you will initially use sRGB (set by defaut on AE), which is a very small space, and is subsequently you convert this to a larger profile. This way you are not taking advantage of all the information, on the contrary, after the first render you ruled out all this information.
Try to work the entire process from the BM space or work in ProPhoto RGB since the beginning...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Andy600 on March 06, 2014, 05:32:53 PM
I've looked at lots of 'dark' footage from ML users in the past few weeks and no matter if they use our Cinelog profile, VisionLog or go straight into Resolve and use BMDFilm the one common issue with all of it is under exposure.

ETTR is important in this context but users should also remember that their cameras have a limited dynamic range and some of the footage I have seen would extend well beyond what their camera is capable of capturing without using HDR or Dual ISO. In these scenarios a degree of clipping to highlights is needed in order to optimize the signal to noise ratio. Some users are also not using higher ISO's for some reason (noise?) and this actually leads to more FPN being noticeable. Don't be scared of using higher ISO values up to 1600 ISO! If you are using a 'slow' kit lens this is especially relevant because you can't get enough light through the aperture.

My advice, especially when shooting in available light is not to try and capture every last bit of highlight information at the expense of midtones and shadow information. Just because we can shoot raw doesn't change the hardware limit of your camera sensor. ETTR by all means but push exposure up and clip some highlights if your midtones are underexposed as a result, or your footage will suffer. It's much better to get this bit right when shooting than rely on heavy noise reduction in post.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: joaomoutinho on March 07, 2014, 05:21:02 AM
So, I use this workflow too, but, I believe there are two points where you went wrong in your flow: application of grain and color space.
Every type of texture is applied after the color grade, otherwise it will have a negative effect on texture.
What about the color space, you must work with the same color space throughout the flow. Note that you will initially use sRGB (set by defaut on AE), which is a very small space, and is subsequently you convert this to a larger profile. This way you are not taking advantage of all the information, on the contrary, after the first render you ruled out all this information.
Try to work the entire process from the BM space or work in ProPhoto RGB since the beginning...

In your opinion I should go straight from the original DNGs to the DaVinci resolve and work in the Blackmagic film gamma and colour space, correct? Apply the denoise in the davinci resolve.  Than, do the proxies and edit, and than, come back to resolve for the last export, And only in the last export I should bring the grain, correct?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Luiz Roberto dos Santos on March 07, 2014, 09:07:58 AM
Well this would be the most "correct" process, so to speak. However, you can work at ACR, only changing the color profile in which he is working. Try using ProPhoto RGB or any profile designed for film, so you get all the information.
The grain or texture, always apply as the last layer of all processes, after color grade, denoise/sharpen... after all done.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: WeekendWarrior on March 15, 2014, 02:26:17 AM
fixed*
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: nazcaman on March 21, 2014, 12:01:57 PM
@Andy600 re: dark footage and clipping highlights.
This is very interesting since I've been struggling to get decent exposure when shooting RAW. I'm on my 3rd camera at the mo for different reasons, I tried 60D, 5D2 and now got 5D3, and sort of expected the footage to improve somewhat exposure and noise wise, because I normally shoot in low light conditions. I usually use metering in still photo mode (spot or partial) and then use the readings in video mode, but the RAW footage more often than not comes out underexposed. I looked at histograms, waveforms and all sorts, obviously trying not to clip anything, that's how I understand good exposure? However, I find myself pushing exposure up in ACR and then deal with the consequent artefacts. I do get ok results and accepted this as a workflow, but wasn't really happy and often thought it's my inexperience in the field that's causing this. Now I stumbled across your post. If i understood correctly, you suggest to overexpose in camera, especially if converting the footage to Visionlog or your Cinelog later, to get as much info in the mids and try to recover highlights afterwards?
Thanks
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Andy600 on March 21, 2014, 02:55:10 PM
@nazcaman - Yes, some overexposure helps with low light shooting. Obviously you want to get as much available light to the sensor as possible with a wide aperture and high ISO but I've seen shots where someone tries to capture every bit of highlight information when the shot is obviously outside the dynamic range of the camera. In these situations it's better to overexpose a little to keep noise to a minimum and leave some useable shadow detail.

If ETTR is causing mids (especially skintones) to drop below optimum exposure you have the potential for less detail and more noise in the most important parts of the image and will need to increase exposure in post. The downside to overexposing is obviously hard clipping of the highlights but a carefully adjusted curve or a softclip LUT can roll off the highlights nicely. In practice it's usually only ultrabrights that suffer anyway. Basically, there is little point having a shot where the lights look great but the talent is underexposed and noisy. To get those kinds of shot right takes controlled lighting, gels etc.

The practice I follow is to ETTR whenever possible but always expose for the subject in low light, sometimes overexposing 1/3 - 1stop. I always clip specular highlights and check everything with raw zebras and the raw histogram. I'm not the best DP and sometimes I can be lazy with exposure but I tend to get good results if I expose this way. If the available light is very low I won't even bother hitting record.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: edge11 on March 21, 2014, 10:07:34 PM
How are you guys getting the meta data on your dngs so that it gives you the right camera profile?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: simulacro on March 21, 2014, 11:16:20 PM
RAWmagic lets you tell the batch conversion which camera is yours
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: edge11 on March 23, 2014, 05:09:31 AM
I'm on windows, using mlv to dng bactch converter ;(
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: johnny5d on May 11, 2014, 09:26:20 AM
Hi all when using vision log should I also change "tone curve" to linear? as it is standard on medium contrast in camera raw!

Realy hope to hear from you guys!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Kharak on May 28, 2014, 02:07:12 AM
So what's going on at Vision Colour?

They making a new Colour grading program or new luts? Anyone got some inside knowledge?

http://vision-color.com/
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Jbowdach on May 28, 2014, 11:10:37 PM
So what's going on at Vision Colour?

They making a new Colour grading program or new luts? Anyone got some inside knowledge?

http://vision-color.com/

Nope, just waiting patiently like you. There are quite a few LUTs in the new package and its mainly created to emulate analog film stocks (16mm if im not mistaken, but could be 35 stock as well. Steven will need to clarify). Seems like quite the package, as it should allow us to fully emulate a film development workflow in the DI (digital intermediate) phase of a production. Prices range as they'll have 3 levels: each offering more than the previous. I believe the pricing ranges from $30ish for the basic, to around $60 (similar to OSIRIS) for the medium pack, and around ~$120 for the pro pack. Im definitely VERY excited for these, as Im working on a project that could benefit from a classic 16mm look.

I believe they mentioned SOME type of discount for either owners of OSIRIS and\or for the first few weeks.

These are ALL estimates taken from the visioncolor FB page, I have no way to verify these in any way.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Luiz Roberto dos Santos on May 28, 2014, 11:57:37 PM
It seems that the new releases are being announced on Facebook. Follow or send email message to Steve:

www.facebook.com/VISI0NC0L0R (http://www.facebook.com/VISI0NC0L0R)
support@vision-color.com (http://support@vision-color.com)
www.vision-color.com (http://www.vision-color.com)
@visioncolorps


The new pack seems to be LUT's highly precise and the new Logarithmic space DCP called "VisionSpace"...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rustmonster on May 29, 2014, 12:25:25 PM
Seeing as the site is currently down until the update does anyone have a link to the VisionLOG log profile?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: MrTodd on June 02, 2014, 11:31:14 PM
I have been checking out the Vision Colour Luts , particularly the M31 Cinema version, and noticed it was available for Adobe Photoshop CS6/CC but not Lightroom. Will/can it be possible in the future?

Cheers
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Luiz Roberto dos Santos on June 03, 2014, 08:06:02 PM
I have been checking out the Vision Colour Luts , particularly the M31 Cinema version, and noticed it was available for Adobe Photoshop CS6/CC but not Lightroom. Will/can it be possible in the future?

Cheers

If, in future, LR provide support for LUT, yep, you can use this. But, on LR 5 this support is not done, but you can use some plugin so load this LUT's, like "LUT Buddy" - Red Giant.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: grantcallegari on June 14, 2014, 04:22:25 AM
you have to go to your

proper user directory there is one that shows LIBRARY and then one that doesnt... cause its hidden... you have to un hide that using easiest way to temporarily reveal the ~/Library folder is to open Finder.

 On the menu bar, at the top, select Go to reveal the drop-down menu and then hold down the Option key (marked ALT) and you will see the ~/Library folder appear. You may now select this ~/Library folder with your mouse or trackpad.

As soon as you release the Option key, the ~/Library folder will be hidden once more.

then follow the library>blah>blah>profiles  and put it in that folder...

Thanks for clarifying this. I was totally stumped too until I ran across your post. Thought I might be stuck down the forum rabbit warren for some time!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Africashot on July 06, 2014, 02:51:12 PM
Although I have managed to locate the right folder and placed the Vision Color preset it still won't appear in ACR, I had been using Visionlog for ages on PC but now that I switched to Mac I simply can't get it to work...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Luiz Roberto dos Santos on July 08, 2014, 08:29:59 PM
Although I have managed to locate the right folder and placed the Vision Color preset it still won't appear in ACR, I had been using Visionlog for ages on PC but now that I switched to Mac I simply can't get it to work...

You are using ACR 8.4? There's some issues about this version and dcp profiles...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Africashot on July 09, 2014, 05:59:45 PM
I realized it has to do with my raw converter, I was using MLRawviewer, when I use raw2dng ACR picks the camera profile and vision log appears, too bad... mlrawviewer is a nice script and I liked being able to trim the clips before producing the dogs...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: elkanah77 on July 31, 2014, 09:14:09 PM
Hi,
New member here.
Just wondering about raising the shadows and lowering the highlights in ACR before exporting. I do that when retouching stills, but do the VisionLog profile in ACR embedd the DR so it's best to leave these at 0 before exporting the sequence? It would seem to me that raising the shadows a bit and lowering the highlights bring back details as with stills but also increase noise. Better to take care of shadows/highlights later? Cheers.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DFM on July 31, 2014, 09:24:28 PM
Don't mess with anything in the Basic panel aside from Exposure. The other sliders are adaptive in PV12 so their effect varies depending on the tonality of the image. Moving 'highlights' or 'blacks' on frames within a cDNG clip will cause flicker as each one will be adjusted by a different amount. Grade after import into your video editing package, using curves.

Hi,
New member here.
Just wondering about raising the shadows and lowering the highlights in ACR before exporting. I do that when retouching stills, but do the VisionLog profile in ACR embedd the DR so it's best to leave these at 0 before exporting the sequence? It would seem to me that raising the shadows a bit and lowering the highlights bring back details as with stills but also increase noise. Better to take care of shadows/highlights later? Cheers.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: elkanah77 on July 31, 2014, 09:35:15 PM
DFM: Thanks. I assumed it was so but being new to the 5d3 raw workflow it sometimes pays to check with more experienced users.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: hateom on September 25, 2014, 02:43:56 PM
Any chance for the VisionLog profile for ACR designed for BMD dng, same as ML dng?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: ycy55 on October 08, 2014, 04:27:35 AM
I download it and copy the VisionLog folder to the camera profile folder, but I still cannot find the visionlog in camera profile list.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: N/A on December 24, 2014, 05:41:47 PM
I saw a mention of a new VisionLog update coming soon, any news on this? Was mentioned under the BMD dcp profile post.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on December 24, 2014, 09:14:29 PM
Yea I was wondering the same... Should be soon if not already out?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: krapapock on January 18, 2015, 12:19:37 PM
Hello,

I can not download BMD Film to VisionLOG LUT from Vision-Color website because Media Fire remove the file for Violation :
The file you requested has been removed from MediaFire for a violation of our Terms of Service.

Can i work with Osiris on Resolve without this LUT ?
Or maybe you have an alternative download link ?

I've signaled this problem to Vision Color support ...

Thanks
Johann

EDIT : vision-color support is going to fix this issue soon ...
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: boodya on April 01, 2015, 01:48:43 PM
Hi I am trying to install VisionLOG as it is written in manual - just to copy folder to CameraProfiles but then when I open adobe lighroom or camera raw it is not displayed there. What I am doing wrong? Can anybody help me with this, please?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Andy600 on April 01, 2015, 03:44:53 PM
@boodya - The path is probably wrong (Adobe change it sometimes). Do a search for .dcp files and put the cam profiles there ;)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on April 01, 2015, 10:13:02 PM
IMHO, Cinelog-C annihilates VisionLOG!

 :P
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: theartofweb on April 25, 2015, 05:09:59 PM
So, how do you use the VisonLOG lut on Resolve? Do you use it as an input lut from BMD color space on DNG sequences or do you apply it as a 3D output lut to get a very flat high-dynamic-range look and then let Resolve output ProRes that can be sent to the editor.?

Also, when dealing with DNG sequences how do you set the "master settings" in "camera raw" on Resolve?

Mine are:

Decode quality: Use Project Settings (I see some set it to full res, why?)
Decode using: Clip
White bal: as shot
Color space and gamma: BMD Film
Highlight recovery
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: bimmer on April 27, 2015, 02:37:32 PM
To All,
I just upgraded my Lightroom 5 to Lightroom CC (6) and I lost VisionLog under Camera calibration profile. I reloaded the profile after LR upgrade, but still could not find the VisionLog profile. BTW, I also upgraded the CameraRaw from v 8.0 to v 9.0. I'm suspecting CameraRaw upgrade causing the problem. Anybody has the same experience? Can our friend at VisionColor fix this problem/provide a solution for me/us? I need the VisionLog profile badly for editing RAW video and any help over this matter is greatly appreciated!
Best
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: bimmer on April 27, 2015, 03:52:01 PM
Never mind, my mistake. I accidentally open file of 1Dx in LR CC, not
5D MKII. It works on 5D MK II raw files. All is good.
Thanks.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: alejandro on May 03, 2015, 07:08:13 PM
Hi I'm new to ML and I've two questions:

1 - I own a copy of the Impulz Ultimate LUTs. Loaded the VisionLOG profile in photoshop to calibrate DNGs, and then tried to do some editing using the specific Impulz LUTs for VisionLOGRaw. The original footage was shot with the visioncolor picture style. I ain't getting nice results. Can someone explain me what I'm missing? And in any case, how can a camera profile disregard the picture style used for recording?

2 - I'm using adobe camera raw and is not allowing me to write my changes on the output dngs - everytime I choose dng as output method the resulting image has none of my alterations, so I'm forced to use tiffs instead which defeats the purpose of this complex raw workflow. Also the scaling within cameraraw and colorspace management is a bit odd. Any alternatives? Any help with this? (FYI, I do not own nor use Resolve)

Thanks!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: N/A on May 03, 2015, 08:37:14 PM
Picture styles don't alter the raw signal in any way. Basically the only use for them in my experience is to assist in exposure and wb and being able to use the same picture style calibration in ACR for a similar look to what you previewed on the camera lcd while recording.
Visionlog is tricky, try using the natural picture style in ACR first to nail down your white balance and exposure, then switch over to Visionlog. Applying the lut in an adjustment layer and adjusting opacity and layer blending options helps as well.
I may be wrong, but using ACR through Bridge only allows you to save a sidecar xmp file for dng adjustments, allowing you to leave the original untouched and just exporting your edit. It's really designed for still photography, but importing a dng sequence through ACR into After Effects allows you to work around this.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: alejandro on May 03, 2015, 10:45:03 PM
Appreciated response. I got ML configured to give me the standard picture style in previewing, so I'm not even using it for the liveview. I already played around with ACR defaults to get a decent wb, my sole wish was to squeeze something good out of the VisionLOG presets Impuz has amongst its luts. So far I've been just dragging the dngs/tiffs from the ACR output, straight to my fcpx. I've close to none experience with digital raw material, neither for photography, so I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to the proper tools to nail this. I was under the impression ACR could actually -write- dngs, instead of filling up some script file somewhere that I'm supposed to make into parameters for my dng sequence in my editor god knows how. :-(

FYI, I decompiled the visionlog dcp for canon 6D and 60D, did a diff, realized there was no other change but the identifier itself, so created a copy with 70D as the identifier thereby enabling me to use visionlog with the 70D in ACR. Should anyone need that file, let me know.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: vertigopix on May 04, 2015, 08:01:17 AM
@Steven Griffith

Any chance to get VisionLOG for EOS-M ?
Or any trick ?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: NitromanX on May 04, 2015, 09:39:09 AM
@ alejandro - I'm in the same boat. :)

I find the best results are to apply the VisionLog profile in ACR (Camera Profile) to get a nice flat image, then output the 1920 x 1080 tiffs and make Image Sequence with Quicktime 7 Pro. Then i edit the output ProRes 422 HQ in FCP X. Bit long winded but worth the effort.

There are better ways with Resolve or After Effects but I don't use either.

Alternatively I'm looking in to just outputting ProRes 4444 .mov files with C-Log profile straight from MLRawViewer. I adjust the histogram in the preview (so it looks healthy) and then just Export.

Not sure it's the best way to approach this, but it's very fast and gives better quality than h.264. :D
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: alejandro on May 04, 2015, 06:00:44 PM
@ NitromanX

Your current pipeline is pretty much mine. The problem is that tiffs do not handle color as the dng does, and the scaling out of ACR its dubious, I mean, I see no way to specify the interpolation algorithm, nothing really.

MLRawViewer seems to be the best tool so far, great tool, though not exactly my cup of tea since I wanted a bit more control over the DNGs. Specially because I feel overall color management would be better.

How much would Resolve help here? Because for the MLRawViewer workflow to make sense, I feel I need  a powerful color grading solution. I know I'm being a bitch here but I too would like to know the best approach possible rather than just be a notch better than h.264
Ideas welcomed
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: NitromanX on May 04, 2015, 11:06:02 PM
Deaf Eye Jedi is pretty clued up ... I think he uses After Effects with the dngs. Unfortunatley I only have a trial copy of After Effects so it's not a permanent solution for me.

For me, there isn't a perfect solution yet ... although Resolve Lite is free and can also work. I just don't have time to get my head around another bit of software. :)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: theartofweb on May 05, 2015, 12:59:02 PM
Quote
How much would Resolve help here?

A lot. I would set Vision Log as a 3D input lut on Resolve and then color grade the DNGs. Also, transcoding into pr444 with a baked-in log curve is time consuming under MlRawViewer. Resolve is a piece of software defenitely worthwhile getting one's head around. I'd suggest using raw2cdng instead of MlRawViewer.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: alejandro on May 05, 2015, 07:49:30 PM
@ theartofweb

I tried Resolve Lite. Complex, multi-user, immediate UI bugs on my retina display,  constantly asked me to accept incoming connections, and crashed on me with no recovery of the test project I setup. I'm not a pro and I do what I do alone, a collaborative pipeline is not necessary to me. I just need the tools to do my art right. I was actually thinking of purchasing color finale from vision color.
I'll try using the visionlog dcp there as a lut and see what happens.   raw2cdng over MLRawViewer? Why?
What I did notice is that video export from mlrawviewer looks noisy and not accurate.
I'd really like to find the less complex non-destructive workflow here. Thanks for all the advise so far!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: rikvanderlaan on June 28, 2015, 07:27:42 PM
Hi,

I have a question about the VisionLOG in ACR, it's not showing up for me. Looking through this topic / the forums I'm not the only one that has this problem, the VisionLOG folder is in the correct place I think.. (/library/applicationsupport/adobe/cameraraw/cameraprofiles/visionlog)

And when I open up a .dng file in either photoshop or after effects I can't get VisionLOG to show up under camera profiles. I converted the .mlv with MLVFS, and the ACR window says it's shot with Canon EOS 7D (added a picture to show this), not the Canikon thingy..

Anybody know how I can fix this? Upgraded ACR to 9.1 already (was on 8.something), didn't seem to help


(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F17015223%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202015-06-28%2520at%252019.26.31.png&hash=47afad7ee12352ba6d8962318b7d62ec)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: alejandro on August 12, 2015, 02:04:50 AM
To anyone interested,

This is my 70D VisionLOG profile:

http://www.filedropper.com/visionlog70d

Hope it helps!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: th3jackal on October 06, 2015, 01:05:33 AM
Hi Alenjandro, I would really like to get this file from you for the 70d vision log, but the download link no longer works...can you reupload and send me link?  Would very much appreciate! 
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: JADURCA on October 06, 2015, 04:44:16 PM
@ th3jackal - here!!! http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog/
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: th3jackal on October 06, 2015, 07:27:06 PM
Jadurca,
Thanks for the quick reply...but unfortunately that site doesn't have one for the Canon 70D, so when I pull up an image in adobe raw, it doesn't register....  As you said earlier, you were able to open the file and adjust the name so it could work with the 70d...but I can't figure out how to do this....can you send me the file you made or explain how you did this?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dfort on October 06, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
@Steven Griffith

Any chance to get VisionLOG for EOS-M ?
Or any trick ?

I was looking into raw workflows for the EOS-M and was wondering the same thing. No EOS-M user has ever sent them a file to profile? Looks like Steven Griffith hasn't been checking the ML forum in a while. Best contact him directly:

Steven Griffith | VisionColor
www.vision-color.com
support@vision-color.com
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: vertigopix on October 07, 2015, 06:57:38 AM
Thank you, I will try !
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 07, 2015, 11:21:32 AM
Well for those who are curious Cinelog-C already has one for both 70D as well as EOS-M.

They work really well, tbh.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: vertigopix on October 07, 2015, 12:31:03 PM
Yep but VisionLOG is free...  ;)
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 07, 2015, 04:26:37 PM
Sure it is free but we don't know how much longer it'll be before this comes out?

Plus who wouldn't want Cinelog-C's bundle package in their post kit?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: simulacro on October 07, 2015, 10:52:50 PM
I like VisionLog. It's a very good tool in my opinion. It's made by professionals -Cinelog too  :) - and it's free. In my opinion it does the job very well done.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: JADURCA on October 07, 2015, 11:33:47 PM
VisionLOG its good, but I can still make better color grades using Adobe Standard. Will like to test Cinelog-C too and see if can do better than Adobe Standard profile.

What about this one? http://www.vision-color.com/bmdfilm/

Anyone tried it?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: KelvinK on October 08, 2015, 12:43:18 PM
Visionlog works best with Impulze/Osiris LUTs, Cinelog is more universal. I would say, you may have banding issues with some Impulze LUTs and cinelog, it's rare but exists, those luts tuned for visionlog.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Andy600 on October 08, 2015, 01:43:14 PM
@KelvinK - If you're getting banding when using Impulz luts it means they either don't have enough resolution for whichever colorspace they are designed for or they have other artifacts that affect smoothness. Linear Lut interpolation can also cause issues where there is not enough quantize points. The source footage colorspace should ideally match the colorspace that the lut was developed for. Try it with Resolve 12 using RCM (i.e. not using Cinelog) and you will see the same banding issues.

VisionLog is more of a look than a colorspace. It has a lot of non-linear adjustments and can't be described with a transfer function and matrix in the same way as Log-C, S-log, C-Log, Cinelog-C etc so there is no practical way to invert or linearize it. The problem with adding so many non-linear corrections at the start of a log based workflow or when creating log intermediates, is that any quantize errors, rounding errors and hue shifts get baked into the image. You probably will not see any problems until later but you are effectively reducing the latitude for grading. The initial conversion of linear raw data should ideally be kept to as little corrective processing as possible and preferably be invertible.
Title: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 09, 2015, 09:47:45 AM
VisionLog is more of a look than a colorspace. It has a lot of non-linear adjustments and can't be described with a transfer function and matrix in the same way as Log-C, S-log, C-Log, Cinelog-C etc so there is no practical way to invert or linearize it. The problem with adding so many non-linear corrections at the start of a log based workflow or when creating log intermediates, is that any quantize errors, rounding errors and hue shifts get baked into the image. You probably will not see any problems until later but you are effectively reducing the latitude for grading. The initial conversion of linear raw data should ideally be kept to as little corrective processing as possible and preferably be invertible.
Exactly the reason why I use Cinelog-C.

"Less is more" because Andy did the "dirty" work by calculating dedicated proper color spaces for us and hence the reason why it isn't free. [emoji6]
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: JADURCA on October 09, 2015, 04:30:59 PM
When I tried VisionLOG, I found that color skins comes with some sort of artifacts regarding colors or hue shifts, don't really know how to describe it. It just don't look natural. Specially on skin tones, and not to mention that color vividness is lost specially in magenta region, not sure if all color profiles with a LOG do this for magentas as a normal behavior or as @ Andy600 says, is just a more of a look than a dedicated colorspace. Need to test more color profiles to find out.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: lewisczech on March 01, 2016, 07:40:01 PM
For 70D folks: I recompiled the VisionLOG dcp file for 6D with the dcpTool: http://1drv.ms/1XYmtdo Not sure if it works correctly but I thought I'd share it anyway.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: moifa on May 10, 2016, 07:35:30 AM
Hi,

I have downloaded and installed the Visionlog profiles for my Canon 500D. But when I chose the Visionlog profile in Lightroom, the image becomes totally wash out. I check the image with Photoshop Camera Raw, it reads the image as taken with Canon 500D, so there is nothing wrong with the RAW image.

Am I missing something? I am running Lightroom 6.5 with Camera Raw 9.5. I have to use the Camera portrait profile for now.

Moifa
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Roberto Mena on June 29, 2016, 01:54:12 AM
With the help of Adobe I finally got VisionLog for ACR installed but now when I try to import DNG files into After Effects I get the warning "After Effects error: Photoshop file format error (-1) (45 ::35)". When I research the code I get a lot of people in help forums working with Maya. I don't even have Maya installed nor do any kind of CGI animation. I am just color correcting and grading MLV files with Adobe After Effects or Bridge. FYI, I also upgraded to CC 2015.3 . Also, if I try exporting DNG files graded with ACR camera profile via Adobe Bridge and move or copy the greaded files to a different folder, the DNG's do not get the correction or grading I applied in Bridge. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Danne on June 29, 2016, 11:32:04 AM
Are you missing frames in your dng sequence?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Roberto Mena on June 29, 2016, 07:04:00 PM
Danne, no I am not missing frames and in fact, these are mlv/dng files I've used before in After Effects before updating to CC 2015.3 . But even if they where new DNG files I wouldn't know they where missing frames because I wouldn't be able to play them in After Effects to find out because it won't allow me to import them because of that stupid warning I get. What is also weird is if I use them in Bridge or Lightroom they work but I am not familiar with Bridge or Light Room to color grade or correct as well.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Roberto Mena on July 01, 2016, 05:23:41 PM
UPDATE: I contacted Adobe to help me with my After Effects CC 2015.3 issue (After Effects error: Photoshop file format error (-1). (45 :: 35) where I can no longer import DNG files to this app. What was weird was that Adobe asked me to try importing DNG's with the older version of After Effects CS6 and it worked fine and even though it bugs me that I'd have to use the older version of AF CS6 but I still would use it to color grade and correct my DNG's but the one damn tool I've been chasing to work with is not implemented in AF CS6... the Dehazing tool! Again, I am still able to import DNG files with all of the other Adobe apps that have Adobe Camera RAW like Bridge and Lightroom CC 2015.3 The tech also downgraded my AE to CC 2015 along with the older version of Adobe Camera RAW and that still didn't fix the issue... wtf! Adobe said they where going to work on the issue and call me back.

Anyone else have any other suggestions, please? Thanks.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: dmilligan on July 01, 2016, 06:03:17 PM
Need more information. What RAW/MLV converter are you using? Have you tried a different one? Mac or Win? What camera? Dual ISO? Raw or MLV? etc. etc.

Upload a sample DNG and/or a small RAW/MLV file that exhibits the problem.
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Roberto Mena on July 02, 2016, 06:54:43 AM
MLV with sound. Mlviewer converter. MLVFS doesn't mount them either. Mac. Canon 7D. No Dual ISO. Log 8, etc. none matters. 23.976 fps. All these files worked perfectly before updating to CC 2015.3 and then installing VisionLOG ACR.

Adobe still hasn't gotten back.

When I come back celebrating this cool country's birthday in my awesome Cali, I will Upload a sample DNG and/or a small RAW/MLV file that exhibits the problem.

Thanks everyone.

Happy 4th of July!
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: Richard R on January 12, 2017, 10:52:54 PM
Hello,
Does anyone know where I can download the file VisionLOG raw.
Because the site where suppose to download it is down.
Or can someone send me the file.
I would really appreciate it.

Thank's a lot.
cheers
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: DanHaag on January 26, 2017, 07:28:04 PM
Scroll down on their website. They recently added the old stuff back there because so many people have been asking. http://www.vision-color.com/ (http://www.vision-color.com/)

Update: I just saw the LUT you're looking for might not be there at all. Send their support an email, maybe?
Title: Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
Post by: galxcom on April 03, 2017, 11:51:35 AM
I used VisionLOG profile mostly to LUT photos in Photoshop after Lightroom when I had my Canon camera. But when I bought Sony everything became more complicated because now I can't use this super camera profiles in Lightroom to make correct (or kind of) LOG from raw that I can use in Photoshop with your paid LUTs after.

There are LUT converters like rec.709 to LOG but it is quite bad tweak I guess. Cuz they operate not with raw but with already converted tiff or something else.

So my question is to VisionLOG profile support: are you going to make such http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog/ product for other cameras? I have Sony Alpha ILCE-7RM2 and really want to use your great LUTs with raw photos made with this camera.