Magic Lantern Forum

Experimental builds (WIP) => Tragic Lantern => Topic started by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:14:00 AM

Title: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:14:00 AM
Hey gang, Post links to your DM.Logs and explain your fixes here! Let's get to the bottom of this

Previous edits:
Video demonstrating installing ML on EOS M, the shutter bug, the quick reboot fix, and the lens fix: thx malakai!

Needless to say, its important we reply to the dev's with as much information and cooperation as we can =D Many of us are new here so, to clarify, the devs are: a1ex (runs the show), 1% (puts in hard hours for us), g3gg0 (quiet but deadly)

EDIT 10/11:
Read this to get an idea of what we are dealing with and the appropriate way to approach it:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8347.msg82219#msg82219

We are still looking for a reliable way to produce the bug
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:19:51 AM
go back and read my last post i just sent why you were jumping over here.

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:21:36 AM
Yeah i see it now. so that one has the SW1 and cancel msgs and some other msgs i'm not sure about. Can you also post a good one? i'll add them to my website so they are easily available
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:23:38 AM
i assume you mean good from the 32 gb card?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:26:03 AM
https://www.transferbigfiles.com/eefc0200-a82b-4bce-b8cd-ef01090dd229/hjB-unf9hvWturiF_S21TQ2

this is from the good 32 gb card with no shutter bug. let me know if it looks right for you. if not, i can make it again.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:28:41 AM
ok this one has cancel msgs too
does the 32gb still fix the bug?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:30:39 AM
yes, no shutter bug on it. maybe it never had the bug as i said i was always using the big 128gb card

gary

edit-i just installed the latest version of ML, sept 16th and still no shutter bug on the 32 gb card. the 128 gb is still having the bug problem
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:32:04 AM
well my 32 doesn't have the bug either, so maybe thts what it is. the 32gb you posted looks very similar though. it ahs teh sw1 msgs and the cancels that we noticed in the buggy files. maybe those aren't associated with the bug then...
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:37:08 AM
logic tell me it has to do with why cards bigger than 32 gb. we were told to use 32 gb at the most in the beginning. then i was told to use the eoscard.exe and it would then work with the 128 gb card. now we see it does not work. ml and cards larger than 32 gb is the problem. yet only a problem when we use ef m lenses with IS. adapters with other lenses seem to work or people are not checking closely.

gary

we have narrowed it down more and that should hopefully help 1% and other devs maybe figure out why ML and cards larger than 32 gb are not working. and why does the lens twist or fast off anf back on make the bug go away with the large gb cards?? I paid a lot of money for this 128gb just for this camera and I need the large size to shoot long events where i can't easily switch cards. or get a refund for this card i have. :-) also, it has the speed i need to test and use raw. my 32gb is too slow.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: manly on September 17, 2013, 07:42:32 AM
Hi. When I tried ML a few weeks ago I had th shutter bug. I used eoscard app and have a 16GB card.

My camera was originally with the v1 firmware, if that ever comes to make a difference
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:46:28 AM
i think that helps to know since i was thinking it was only larger gb cards. thanx.

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:46:56 AM
manly,
have you tried the 2.0.2 f/w with a more recent ML on it? EOSCard doesnt seem to be necessary, so you do a low level format and grab these files:

http://ml.bot-fly.com/EOSM1202.FIR
http://ml.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep17.EOSM202.zip

extract and copy to your card and update away, if you dare =D
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:55:04 AM
you see any difference in the sept 16 and 17th builds you show?

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 07:57:21 AM
not at all, the 17 is just me testing the nightly script. it should upload at 11pm AST every night, but i tested past midnight today
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 08:06:28 AM
do you have anymore thoughts on the shutter bug and fixes? i hope we hear from people with and without the bug as to what card they have and eoscard usage.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 17, 2013, 10:00:23 AM
I first installed ML with an old 2GB card, then used EOSCard from the site install FAQ to put ML on one of these 64GB cards:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007JTKM30/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I don't have the shutter bug on either card.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 17, 2013, 10:04:21 AM
OH, I also didn't put anything other than what is in the rootwang zip on either card, no extra common firmware or anything like that, just the contents of the zip in post 1110 (page 45)
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 17, 2013, 05:51:56 PM
hrm, this is my card and i have the bug SOMETIMES. i haven't figured out how to reproduce it reliably
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LFT3QG/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: manly on September 17, 2013, 10:52:28 PM
Ok I will try again tonight. My card is a sandisk UHS1 45MB/s 16GB.

To be clear the install process is:
1- Put card in EOS M.
2- Put EF-M 18-55mm IS lens and manual mode
3- Do full format using the camera (its quick anyway).
4- Put card into computer
5- copy the unzipped files below unto the card:

http://ml.bot-fly.com/EOSM1202.FIR
http://ml.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep17.EOSM202.zip

6- Put card in camera
7- Install firmware upgrade (to install ML)
8- Try to take a picture and see if able/shutter bug.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 17, 2013, 11:37:01 PM
Ok I will try again tonight. My card is a sandisk UHS1 45MB/s 16GB.

To be clear the install process is:
1- Put card in EOS M.
2- Put EF-M 18-55mm IS lens and manual mode
3- Do full format using the camera (its quick anyway).
4- Put card into computer
5- copy the unzipped files below unto the card:

http://ml.bot-fly.com/EOSM1202.FIR
http://ml.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep17.EOSM202.zip

6- Put card in camera
7- Install firmware upgrade (to install ML)
8- Try to take a picture and see if able/shutter bug.
Step 2 does not need to be in manual mode. Turn on IS in the Canon menus.
Step 8, it will take a picture the first time. The bug is when you turn the camera off and wait about five seconds to make sure the red led on the camera flashes. That is ML closing up. Then turn the camera back on and the bug will then not allow any pictures to be taken. The shutter button does not work. You can make videos, just not pictures. The two workarounds are to slightly untwist the lens and then twist it back on and then the bug goes away. The second way is to turn the camera off and quickly back on before the red led flashes. Then the bug goes away. This applies only to the EF M lenses with IS. Not the adapter with ef and efs lenses.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: manly on September 18, 2013, 05:45:14 AM
I have some good news. This is now working! Sweet. As far as I'm concerned the newer builds fixed the bug. Or maybe it was simply not using eoscard that did it.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 18, 2013, 09:59:35 AM
I flashed mine without a lens attached.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 18, 2013, 12:07:27 PM
Just had a quick skim of this topic, do you think you have the shutter bug sorted?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 18, 2013, 03:06:19 PM
Just had a quick skim of this topic, do you think you have the shutter bug sorted?
If you mean me, then no. But I do know my 128gb will always have the shutter bug and I am considering Komputerbay's offer to take it back, but they want a restocking fee. I should probably do it and buy a 32 gb, 45 write speed.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 18, 2013, 04:19:00 PM
I am curious to know if anyone has a 64 gb and/or a 128 gb card and what their results are for the shutter bug.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 18, 2013, 04:54:18 PM
I am curious to know if anyone has a 64 gb and/or a 128 gb card and what their results are for the shutter bug.

Gary

I mentioned that I have a 64GB card here

I first installed ML with an old 2GB card, then used EOSCard from the site install FAQ to put ML on one of these 64GB cards:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007JTKM30/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I don't have the shutter bug on either card.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 18, 2013, 06:04:27 PM
@WiGgLr, which *.fir file are you using? Are you updating the firmware to install ML with a lens attached or not? I cant see how the card you use could cause the shutter bug.
@1% whats the purpose of the *.fir file? i appreciate its to allow fw update in the camera settings but what does it do? Does it hook into the canon FW to allow ML to run. If so what does it change in the canon FW that may be linked to the bug? Also. When powering off the camera. Whats the last write it does to the card?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 18, 2013, 06:06:01 PM
WiGgLr
yes, that helps me. makes the shutter bug more elusive. I thought I was not alone with the shutter bug, but now I feel maybe I am and it's  me and this komputerbay card. Maybe it's just 128 gb cards. I would like to hear if anyone else is using a 128 gb cards and if/ if not they have a shutter bug. That could narrow it down more.

Malakai.
 I have a strong feeling ML is doing something when we shut the camera down so it has the bug when we power up later on. The camera twist probably send a new correct update so it then works.
Gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: andyroo on September 19, 2013, 12:56:55 AM
I think I might have figured something out about the shutter bug. For me it's also a workaround.

First, here's my camera behavior on powerup.

1. Press powerbutton
2.  four-five rapid green flashes, then 14-15 amber flashes
3. LCD comes on
4. one quick amber flash
4. Half-press shutter button and get focus, full press and nothing happens - AKA "shutter bug"
5. press powerbutton. LCD goes off and
6a. one quick amber flash,
6b. a couple seconds later, another long flash after the "Sensor cleaning" icon disappears
7. camera is off.

BUT, if I press the power button a second time between 6a and 6b - basically right after I turn it off, turn it back on again, then I get about 20 quick green flashes (or sometimes just a long pause until the LCD comes back on) and I can take a picture EVERY TIME. In other words, with the shutterbug, here's what I have to do to take a picture:

1. Press powerbutton
2.  four-five rapid green flashes, then 14-15 amber flashes
3. LCD comes on
4. one quick amber flash
5. press powerbutton
6a. one quick amber flash,
7. quickly press the powerbutton again (like 0.5 seconds or so - if there's a second amber flash it's too late)
8. about 20 quick green flashes (or sometimes just a long pause)
9. LCD comes on again
10. happily take pictures

If I powercycle normally, I used to think that I had about a 20% chance of a working shutter. But now that I've been watching the LEDs, if I wait for the long orange light at the end, so far I've powercycled a dozen times and had the shutter bug every time. Conversely, the quick off/on cycle after initial powerup has worked the last dozen twenty times too.

I installed magiclantern from these two files:

http://ml.bot-fly.com/EOSM1202.FIR
http://ml.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep17.EOSM202.zip

I have the 18-55 mm lens, camera fw 2.02, lens fw 2.00 (never upgraded, my camera came with 2.02). ML on a Transcend SDHC Class 10 32 GB card

Here's a question for folks with the 18-55mm lens and no shutter bug - when you initially power up, do you see the green and amber lights rapidly flashing, or only green? Are the other light sequences the same?

   
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 19, 2013, 01:02:35 AM
@WiGgLr, which *.fir file are you using? Are you updating the firmware to install ML with a lens attached or not? I cant see how the card you use could cause the shutter bug.

I took the ML files from this post: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.msg68248#msg68248
as advised by funkysound, who also didn't have the shutter bug. Looks like there is a .fir file in there, my bad. I just checked and that is still on the 64GB card.

I had nothing attached to the camera at all, no lens, no speedlite, nothing. I followed this guide from here ad assumed a lens is an accessory http://www.magiclantern.fm/install.html

Quote
Step 1. Preparing your camera

Use a fully charged Canon battery (original, not third party);
-Remove any accessories from your camera (such as battery grip or external flash);
-For first install, use a simple SD/SDHC/CF card (32 GB or smaller). 64GB cards and larger will not work for first install (but you can use them with ML, see below).
-Make sure you have a card reader.
-Double-check your Canon firmware version.
-Rotate your mode dial to Manual (M) position.
-Recommended: Restore your camera to default settings (Clear settings, see picture above). Remember this will reset all canon settings and removes custom picture styles!

Step 2. Installation

Format the card in the camera (low-level format).
Unzip all of the files from Magic Lantern zip archive to the root of your card.
Launch the Firmware Update process.
If the card LED is blinking for more than a few seconds, upgrade your Canon firmware from the links above (even if you already have the correct firmware version number!) and try again.
Once you see the green confirmation screen, restart your camera. Done.

Once I'd done that with my smaller card, I followed the instructions to put ML on my 64GB card using EOSCard linked in the same set of instructions:
Quote
Installing Magic Lantern on other cards

If you use SD/SDHC/CF cards, you may simply repeat Step 2 on every card you would like to use Magic Lantern.
If you use SDXC cards, or if you prefer to skip the firmware update step and prepare all your cards from the PC, you may copy ML files on your card and make it bootable with a special utility: EOScard (http://pel.hu/down/EOScard.exe) for Windows

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.magiclantern.fm%2Fimg%2Finstall3.jpg&hash=d6803eb21cbf74c0e6a2a2a55c8acf3a)

I have put nothing else on the card at all.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on September 19, 2013, 01:04:05 AM
Quote
@1% whats the purpose of the *.fir file?

Fir file is the installer (or should be).. there was like 1 build before which actually ran from the fir exploit, but it was just 1.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 19, 2013, 01:34:29 AM
Andy, just saw your post. I'll look tomorrow as I've just gone to bed.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 19, 2013, 01:49:07 AM
@andyroo thats the power cycle fix, you can also get the same result by just rotating your lens on the body after you turned it on. Breaks the connection with the lens and body momentarily.

I outlined it here (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.msg73663#msg73663) ;)
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: andyroo on September 19, 2013, 02:43:10 AM
@andyroo thats the power cycle fix, you can also get the same result by just rotating your lens on the body after you turned it on. Breaks the connection with the lens and body momentarily. I outlined it here (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3648.msg73663#msg73663) ;)
Aw shucks. I got all excited because I thought I found something new.

That's what I get for skipping a few pages of the dev discussion. :)
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 22, 2013, 05:52:32 AM
Fir file is the installer (or should be).. there was like 1 build before which actually ran from the fir exploit, but it was just 1.
http://ml.bot-fly.com/fir_files/UpDaterM.fir is that very file. its from the "no installer" zip that was put out at first. you have to run the exploit every time you boot. of course, its a bigger inconvenience but if you wanna play with it and see if it changes anything for the shutter, then i've posted it up there. you have to uninstall the ML bootflag first. I'm not sure if its stored on the card or on the camera.

turning off the bootflag involves 'firmware updating' your cam with EOSM1202.FIR or EOSM_202.fir installer fir's and then when you get the "success!!" screen, you simply turn the dial to a different mode. you will get a bootflag disabled screen. then you can replace the .fir on your card with the one here and install off of that each time you want to use ML. my bug is rarely there, but i'd be curious to see if the bug was there with this exploit.

maybe theres something to it
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 23, 2013, 04:32:11 PM
http://ml.bot-fly.com/tragiclatern_eosm202_sept4.zip
but with
http://ml.bot-fly.com/fir_files/UpDaterM.fir
i get a consistent shutter bug
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on September 23, 2013, 05:43:03 PM
So is it still present on the regular bin?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 23, 2013, 08:49:39 PM
So is it still present on the regular bin?
my shutter bug appears to be gone because i sent my komputerbay 128gb 60 write card back for a refund and i got a new sandisk 32gb 45 write card today. I did not apply that eoascard.exe which i think was part of the problem) to this new card. So, for me, it was either it being a Komputerbay card, or 128gb size, using the eoscard.exe or some combination causing the shutter bug. BTW, something made a small partition on that komputerbay card that I was never able to delete and reformat. Possibly eoascard did it?

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: andyroo on September 23, 2013, 09:14:47 PM
I installed the most recent ML build from http://ml.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep22.EOSM202.zip (http://ml.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep22.EOSM202.zip) on top of magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep17.EOSM202, and I still have the bug.

I tried wiping the ML directory and copying new files over but got a "missing fonts" error, so re-copied the 9/17 files back, then the 9/22 files on top of those.

I am a little confused about Gary's shutterbug problem being associated with a particular card, but after reading his post I decided to try another card just for the heck of it, so I broke out a Kingston SDHC Class 10 16GB card, low-level formatted in-camera, copied the 9/17 files (minus the .FIR), then the 9/22 files.

Shutterbug is still present.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 23, 2013, 09:27:24 PM
andy,
 try a new card without any ML and see if the bug is still there. Try a new format in the canon menu and make sure you use a finger tap to delete all the ML files, reboot and see if the bug is still there. Make sure you try everything, like clearing all the settings in the canon menu first. format  on the computer first, then the in camera canon format then back to the computer and add the ML stuff.
BTW, welcome to the club. this will drive you crazy. :-)

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 24, 2013, 01:21:39 AM
The shutter bug only occurs with ML. Not having ML on a card means the shutter bug wont happen as ML isnt running. ive tried it on everything from a 512mb card up to a 32gb card with the shutterbug occuring on every test that has ML running. That includes both the older non booting versions and the bootloading versions.

This leads me to believe the issue is happening when ML hooks into the OFW something to do with the electronic IS starting before ML as this bug doesnt happen with the 22mm ef-m. Only the two ef-m lenses with IS.
The bug is eliminated when the lens breaks contact with the camera. Either by the hard process of turning the lens or the soft process when the power cycle trick is used. by the look of things the power down routine from the camera is:

1. power button press
2. kill power to IS and close lens iris
3. run sensor clean
4. stop sensor clean
5. save final write to ML
6. full power off.

As we interupt the camera between stage 3 and 5, ML is still running on the camera and the camera has to re-establish a connection to the electronic IS and therefore allows the camera to shoot. The same thing occurs when you rotate the lens. The camera has to re-establish a connection to the IS while ML is running.

Perhaps there is a way to get the electronic IS to start after ML has started at power up?

Hope that made sense lol

Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 24, 2013, 07:32:57 AM
The shutter bug only occurs with ML. Not having ML on a card means the shutter bug wont happen as ML isnt running.
...
oddly enough, that was not true in my case. I deleted "all" the ML files and reformatted my 128gb card many times and the shutter bug remained on my camera.  After many days of trying everything on earth and talking with many people on here and elsewhere, it appeared that it was not going away as long as I kept using that 128gb card even with no ML files installed on it. So, I sent it back for a refund and bought a 32gb sandisk and I now do not have the shutter bug. Go figure. There had to be something on that card that I could not see or get rid of. As I mentioned before, there was a small partition on that card that I never could get rid of. It would not allow me to delete of reformat that small partition. It may have been something like 16mb in size. I can't recall. I think eoscard made that partition. That is just a guess on my part. When I started here, I was told to use eoascard since the card was larger than 32 gb.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 24, 2013, 10:44:57 AM
edit: wrong topic ;) lol
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on September 24, 2013, 01:26:13 PM
With this minimal autoexec (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/EOS-M/minimal/autoexec.bin) (which does nothing but jumping to Canon firmware), the shutter bug is still present according to Malakai.

Code: [Select]
    "B       0xFF0C0000\n"
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on September 24, 2013, 02:10:56 PM
I don't have this bug but feel it crucial to the success of ML in the EOS-M camera and probably future Canon cameras.  Everyone who is working on this problem.  Thank you.  One day I'll get one of those lenses and it will work because of you--I hope :)  I have my own problems (focus pixels) but want to tell you I'm with you in spirit.  You're doing important work!

Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: funkysound on September 24, 2013, 02:58:23 PM
I wrote a few times that I don´t have the shutter bug with using the compiled old version from Rootwang.
Now I just installed the newest version from http://ml.bot-fly.com/ ... and here we are with the bug!
So I tried to use the old version again ... but the shutter bug still stayed whatever I did.

I had to uninstal bootflag, then to format the card, install the old version again, instal bootflag ... and it works again - no shutter bug!
There has to be an important differnce between these versions. I think it may be interesting that I had to unistal the bootflag and to format the card to make the old version work again.

I hope this helpes.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on September 24, 2013, 07:55:53 PM
Can you confirm the findings from post #43?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: funkysound on September 24, 2013, 09:17:06 PM
Can you confirm the findings from post #43?

Hope I did understand right what you mean =
I installed the latest ML version but changed to the "minmal" autoexec.bin you posted.
I got strange pictures on the screen when I installed. After restarting there was no ML.

But ... then I changed back to "normal" autoexec.bin and installed again ... again strange pictures ... and after a restart ML was back again and I have NO shutter bug with the latest version from http://ml.bot-fly.com/

For me it´s getting too confusing but it´s the way it is. The newest version which didn´t work like I wrote in post #45 is working without shutter bug now after using one time the "minmal" autoexec.bin and changing back to the normal one.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on September 24, 2013, 09:26:09 PM
That autoexec simply jumps to Canon firmware (so obviously, no ML). I'm asking you if the shutter bug is present when you are running it, or not.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: funkysound on September 24, 2013, 09:46:10 PM
That autoexec simply jumps to Canon firmware (so obviously, no ML). I'm asking you if the shutter bug is present when you are running it, or not.

NO shutter bug
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 26, 2013, 01:01:23 AM
:-( The shutter bug has returned to my camera. After I said the new 32gb card was free from the bug, it now shows up again and I did nothing to make it happen. My camera worked fine earlier today and over the last few days since I got the new card. Very strange. A time release bug? 

Gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on September 26, 2013, 01:15:44 AM
I was thinking this morning that maybe the camera is doing something while reading the ML into memory.  In old-school parlance, they're both calling the same "interupt".   Maybe the connection between your big card, and your new card (which may be filled and slower) is triggering that problem. 

If 1% thinks this at all possible maybe he can put a 5 second delay before ML loads?  Or something like that.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 26, 2013, 01:36:49 AM
my new card has never been filled much at all. just a dozen pics and a few raws and a few mov files of very short length only for some testing.

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: andyroo on September 26, 2013, 01:53:58 AM
I wrote a few times that I don´t have the shutter bug with using the compiled old version from Rootwang.
...I had to uninstal bootflag, then to format the card, install the old version again, instal bootflag ... and it works again - no shutter bug!
There has to be an important differnce between these versions. I think it may be interesting that I had to unistal the bootflag and to format the card to make the old version work again.

@funkysound: I tried to duplicate your findings, installing the Rootwang build from http://www.sendspace.com/file/37061u (http://www.sendspace.com/file/37061u) after removing the bootflag and reformatting my card (low level format in-camera). I still get the shutterbug with that build.

Does everyone with the bug have 2.02 on the camera and 2.00 on the lens? Does anyone (with or without the bug) have different firmware on the 18-55 mm lens?


Andy
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on September 26, 2013, 01:55:38 AM
my new card has never been filled much at all. just a dozen pics and a few raws and a few mov files of very short length only for some testing.
gary

Maybe it doesn't take much?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: andyroo on September 26, 2013, 02:04:56 AM
Can you confirm the findings from post #43?

@a1ex: I replaced the autoexec in Rootwang's build with your "minimum build" and still had the shutterbug (installed and bootflagged with the full autoexec though first, and saw the shutterbug - would that make a difference?)

I can reliably remove the shutterbug if I disable bootflag from the fw update menu (install new fw, switch to auto settings on the top dial). I always low-level format the card in-camera.

Andy
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 26, 2013, 02:50:08 PM
I uploaded a video covering the shutter bug that occurs when using either Magic or Tragic Lantern and an EF-M lens with electronic IS.


Mute the youtube music if you want. It was a silent movie :D
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on September 26, 2013, 03:16:17 PM
Awesome Malakai!  Thanks for taking the time to create that!  Seeing is believing!
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 26, 2013, 04:03:38 PM
No worries, only took ten minutes to throw together.
Gives folks a better idea on how to install ML/TL and how the bug is effecting it.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on September 26, 2013, 05:56:14 PM
Does it AF when you have the bug?
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 26, 2013, 06:41:46 PM
Yes, autofocus works, just no shutter activation.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 27, 2013, 01:14:23 AM
I still have the rootwang version installed without the bug
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 27, 2013, 01:27:04 PM
@wigglr which .fir are you using to bootload? can you share it please.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on September 27, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
Just tested the botfly 26th Sept release on two different SD cards and I still have shutter bug.
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 27, 2013, 04:28:18 PM
Guys, a1ex asked us to try the 'blank' auto exec.bin to see if it produces the same shutter bug. i have exams and my bug does not always occur, so can you guys download this:
http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/EOS-M/minimal/autoexec.bin
and replace it on your card, then test the shutter, with all else held constant...


reminder: a1ex runs the show
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 27, 2013, 06:24:36 PM
Guys, a1ex asked us to try the 'blank' auto exec.bin to see if it produces the same shutter bug. i have exams and my bug does not always occur, so can you guys download this:
http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/EOS-M/minimal/autoexec.bin
and replace it on your card, then test the shutter, with all else held constant...


reminder: a1ex runs the show

I just did as you asked with the autoexec and I did not have a shutterbug with it. I did notice there was no red flash led by the power button like we usually get when we have ML and shut off the camera. I still feel the bug has something to do with the power off routine. When there is a bug, it is there at power on and the twist and fast power cycle corrects it.

gary
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: funkysound on September 27, 2013, 09:09:09 PM
I´m very glad that I never really had a problem which I couldn´t solve with this f... shutter bug that goes on every bodys nerves - hope it will not come to me one day like it happened to some people as I did read here.
Just wanted to mention that I highly respect all the efford which you all put into making this beautiful little cam work!
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 27, 2013, 11:40:37 PM
@wigglr which .fir are you using to bootload? can you share it please.

This one http://wigglr.co.uk/EOSM1202.FIR.FIR

I didn't use MacOS files, dunno if that matters
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on September 29, 2013, 02:54:10 PM
i have no shutter bug with ver sept 29.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on September 29, 2013, 06:30:18 PM
I just ordered an EOS-M with the 18-55 IS lens.  But I'm hoping you guys fix it before it gets here :)  Otherwise, maybe a fresh set of eyes.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on September 30, 2013, 08:42:57 PM
woudl you guys pitch in 20$ to get 1% an IS lens? i would
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on September 30, 2013, 09:40:16 PM
yup, so would I
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on September 30, 2013, 09:51:23 PM
count me in
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: andyroo on October 01, 2013, 09:25:27 PM
me too
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 01, 2013, 09:33:19 PM
I just PMd 1%, I got my camera in half an hour ago.  I offered to send him the lens and you guys can pay me if that's good for him. (I already have the 22mm lens)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 01, 2013, 11:32:37 PM
yeah, totally, let us know if gets back to you
Title: Re: EOS-M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 02, 2013, 11:59:07 PM
I just did as you asked with the autoexec and I did not have a shutterbug with it. I did notice there was no red flash led by the power button like we usually get when we have ML and shut off the camera. I still feel the bug has something to do with the power off routine. When there is a bug, it is there at power on and the twist and fast power cycle corrects it.

gary
@a1ex: I replaced the autoexec in Rootwang's build with your "minimum build" and still had the shutterbug (installed and bootflagged with the full autoexec though first, and saw the shutterbug - would that make a difference?)

I can reliably remove the shutterbug if I disable bootflag from the fw update menu (install new fw, switch to auto settings on the top dial). I always low-level format the card in-camera.

Andy

So far we have contradicting reports of the minimal autoexec.bin effect on shutterbug. i'm gunna throw it on my camera today and see if i get it. problem is, i don't always get the shutter bug. can more of us give it a try?

link: http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/EOS-M/minimal/autoexec.bin
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 03, 2013, 12:09:16 AM
If the empty bin is shutter bug free then I'm game. We already tried fir and different boot methods so it should be solveable if its not from that and something in ML like a property or setting.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 03, 2013, 12:13:12 AM
I formatted card in PC, formatted in camera, EOScard utilitied it, put on the latest ML, but REPLACED the autoexec.bin with Alex's.  I then started taking many photos, videos, etc.  No shutter bug.

I then put the lens on my other EOS-M body with a 9/26 build, or something like that.  No shutter bug.  Took RAW, took H.264, took photos.  turned camera off and on, many times, switched the dials, etc.  No shutter bug.

Put lens back on new body, took more photos video, no shutter bug.

Outside my house, turned camera on, aimed at motorcycle, had red square, tried to take photo. SHUTTER BUG.  It was low light.  I also noticed that changing the shutter/aperture didn't change meter.  I think there is a good chance the camera wasn't exposed/focus locked correctly on that first shot--that wouldn't fire.  This is camera that has NEVER loaded ML.  Only Alex's autoexec.bin.

Neighbor came over and we got into 15 minute conversation.  After he left I turned camera on, problem gone.  I took photos.  NO SHUTTER BUG.

So the only thing I can see that may have caused it was the camera not being set to the proper exposure/focus for shooting and then freezing. 

Hopefully this means something to 1%.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 03, 2013, 12:19:38 AM
Ok, now we're getting somewhere... maybe mess with expo override and AF settings some more.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 03, 2013, 12:22:03 AM
shutter doesn't fire with AF on unless there is a focus lock. maxotics, you said you had red brackets? that means you didn't get a focus and thus the shutter didn't fire. shutter bug is when you have green brackets but no fire. same thing with MF, it just doesn't go...
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 03, 2013, 12:30:27 AM
Hi jerrykil, I understand that.  Normally, after you try to take a photo after the red brackets you can try again, change some settings, and it will work.  It didn't.  It was frozen.  I aimed at the sky, at a building very well lit.  I couldn't get the shutter button to work.  When I turned it on again, I aim at the last thing I had tried when it wasn't working and it worked.  Make sense now?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 03, 2013, 12:44:26 AM
BTW, have been trying to re-produce problem.  It is possible that jerrykil is onto something and I was rushing it.  So I wouldn't look into it too far, 1%, until I can reproduce again.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 03, 2013, 01:26:52 AM
BTW, have been trying to re-produce problem.  It is possible that jerrykil is onto something and I was rushing it.  So I wouldn't look into it too far, 1%, until I can reproduce again.
so far we've had one report of a shutter bug with the minimal .bin and one report with no shutter bug. its hard for me to say because I could go days wihtout a shutterbug. maxotics, i wouldn't be surprised if it comes back.

edit: starting to think it has to do with the phase of the moon at this point
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 03, 2013, 01:40:38 AM
I'm cautiously optimistic that the bug is gone, or will only be once in a while minor inconvenience.  I really hammered on the camera and couldn't get it.   Will try some more tomorrow.  Thanks for busting my balls so I tried to reproduce :)  You just cannot ASSUME anything de-bugging tech.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 03, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
@maxotics
Can you put a video up showing your process. From installation to showing the tragic lantern menu after powering camera on then taking shots without the bug please. I want to recreate your steps exactly as you have done them to copy you to see if i can eliminate the bug using your process.

Ta
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 03, 2013, 04:24:31 PM
malakai, we are testing minimal .bin which circumvents the ML loading processs, thus its just stock canon firmware and no ML. this is for the sake of debugging! try it too, see ifyou still get the bug with the minimal .bin
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 04, 2013, 12:14:53 AM
I had been working with a1ex testing a few custom autoexec.bins and magic lantern a few weeks ago, even down to one that all it does is start the stock firmware but still had the shutter bug with it. He then let you guys test it out to see what results came from it I guess. I asked for a video so I could follow your routine exactly and see if I can echo what you are getting.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 04, 2013, 02:01:23 AM
malakai, i don't get a shutter bug with the minimal .bin, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt because my shutterbug comes and goes. are you saying that you still have a shutter bug with the minimal .bin? do you have a shutterbug with the bootflag off, also?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 04, 2013, 01:20:46 PM
I get the shutter bug using both magic lantern and tragic lantern using all the autoexec.bin files you have been testing. Including the minimal one where all it does is start the canon FW. If i disable bootflag (remove ML/TL) the bug goes with it.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 04, 2013, 03:56:08 PM
If its on the minimal bin, it really sucks.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 04, 2013, 08:15:00 PM
Yes, but I got the shutter bug without any files at all on the memory card. Totally formated and repartitioned the card. So I wonder If it's something else bootflags or something that has been poking in wrong addresses in earlier versions.

What I haven't tried yet is to re-flash the official canon firmware once again.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 04, 2013, 08:25:15 PM
Yes, but I got the shutter bug without any files at all on the memory card. Totally formated and repartitioned the card. So I wonder If it's something else bootflags or something that has been poking in wrong addresses in earlier versions.

What I haven't tried yet is to re-flash the official canon firmware once again.
that is what happened to me. I did try re flashing the Canon firmware 2 and no luck. the only thing I did not do was the bootflag. and I think the eoscard may have had something to do with hidden files I could not find an delete. i got a new 32gb card and all the shutter bug problems went away for me.

gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 04, 2013, 08:33:56 PM
I went in in the upgrade mode and Disabled Bootflag with ML FIR files. Booted and did a low-level/slow format on the camera. Put the official firmware update there and flashed firmware. Seems to work alright now, but it probably needs deeper testing to verify that the bug is totally gone.

Next step would probably be to completly restore all camera settings to factory I guess. But it seems to be working for me at the moment.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 04, 2013, 08:47:39 PM
No shutter bug after even more testing...

However I shot something with the 11-22mm lens I get some weird color distortion, randomly about 2/10 times it shows green or pinkish in LiveView between bursts in M-mode, I don't think it should be there, it is more like something that could appear with ML.

The images that were saved were OK, only appeared in LiveView for split seconds...

EDIT: Restored(?) "all camera settings" or whatever it's called, have Swedish language here so the actual words could differ. (Did NOT restore C.Fn) , and after this I do NOT get any weird colors in LiveView anymore. So everything seems to be back normal, like it came from the factory. :)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 06, 2013, 09:11:35 AM
so i've been doing this minimal bin for a week and i have no shutter-bug.
heres a crab:
http://www.bot-fly.com/crabbie_guy.jpg (http://www.bot-fly.com/crabbie_guy.jpg)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 06, 2013, 09:33:16 AM
No shutter bug after even more testing...
is this with ML? i'm confused
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 06, 2013, 12:42:45 PM
No, the point was to get rid of the shutter bug and restore the whole camera like it came from factory.

Anyway, made the memory card bootable once again, and only put that autoexec.bin in the root, still works like it should. But how can I tell if it really executed that file?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 06, 2013, 02:17:55 PM
so i've been doing this minimal bin for a week and i have no shutter-bug.
heres a crab:
http://www.bot-fly.com/crabbie_guy.jpg (http://www.bot-fly.com/crabbie_guy.jpg)

I don't get this. Are the folks who claim they don't have the shutter bug with the 18-55mm EF-M actually bootloading and running ML/TL on the camera? The bug shouldn't be there if the bootflag has been removed as the camera is loading straight into the OFW. The custom FW just hooks in and allows autoexec.bin to run.

No, the point was to get rid of the shutter bug and restore the whole camera like it came from factory.

Anyway, made the memory card bootable once again, and only put that autoexec.bin in the root, still works like it should. But how can I tell if it really executed that file?

The point of this thread is to discuss and possibly find the cause of the shutter bug while ML/TL is installed and running. The bug comes with ML/TL and by removing it you remove the bug.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 06, 2013, 05:45:35 PM
The point of this thread is to discuss and possibly find the cause of the shutter bug while ML/TL is installed and running. The bug comes with ML/TL and by removing it you remove the bug.
If you just re-read everything, I had the bug with a clean memory card, it's a left over from ML. The pure Canon firmware doesn't produce the shutter bug so it's related to ML, I just had to back off everything back to stock to get it all clean of the issues that were from use of ML, why complain, I'm just trying to feed information here! Which could determine hints of which wrong addresses are altered by ML.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 06, 2013, 06:29:57 PM
Dont get me wrong, im not complaining or having a go or anything. Just seeking answers.  ;D
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on October 07, 2013, 01:19:15 AM
Tone of voice is the one thing that never translates well over the Internet
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 07, 2013, 03:06:08 AM
I haven't experienced the shutter bug yet and I tried to get it!  Must be Murphy's law.  I have to say that I primarily use the camera for video.  I have had a problem with the screen freezing, which I wrote about in the other thread.  Malakai, maybe you should just keep a clean card for photos and another for ML video.  I realize that's a work-around, but my thinking lately is that it's more important to get a really stable build for RAW than fix the shutter-bug, which doesn't affect the raw video.  Just my thinking at the moment.  Your thoughts?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 07, 2013, 03:30:47 AM
Malakai (and whoever else may be wondering),
you asked how i was sure it was booting off the minimal autoexec.bin.
1) I isntall ML and boot ML with the bootflag set and play with all the fancy doodads and modules
2) I replace the autoexec.bin with the minimal one provided by a1ex. this being the only thing i change means that the camera will indeed boot with the minimal autoexec.bin.
3) i boot with minimal .bin and i get stock canon firmware
4) when i replace the .bin with the normal ML autoexec.bin the camera is back booting ML

This is the fundamental question that a1ex and 1% are trying to get at: is it the full ML suite that introduces the bug or is it something with how we are booting.

hope that helps because it seems we are getting some mixed and confusing results

ps. stay positive guys. :P
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 07, 2013, 03:35:40 AM
My 2-cents, since I didn't have the bug in the minimal autoexec.bin, and because ML for the EOS-M has been quirky from day one, is that it is in ML.  My guess again, is there is some sequence of events, or settings, that causes it.  My shooting style doesn't bring it on. 

If this is true, 1% will probably fix it in a piece of code he improves in the natural course of getting all the weirdness out.  That's my hope!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 07, 2013, 03:55:21 AM
maxotics,
i find that my camera would not release randomly, but usually when i needed it most. I didn't have bug with the minimal bin. i shot a bunch of shots and couldn't get a single shutter bug...

Since i'm still bug testing the latest build on my EOS M, can those of you that have helped out with this post something in the following format:

Memory card size:
##GB

Is EOSCard utility being used?
Y/N

Date/version of ML attempted:
Date/Build name

Bug present after low-level format (i.e. no ML files on card) but w/ bootflag on?
Always/Sometimes/Never

Bug present with bootflag on and a1ex's minimal autoexec.bin?
Always/Sometimes/Never

Bug present after 1) turning off boot-flag 2) low-level formatting the card 3) reinstalling ML?
Always/Sometimes/Never

If the bug occurs sometimes or never, approximately how many pictures have you attempted?
###

Comments:
whatever else


i think this will be very helpful for organizing our experience and for the devs to get a clear concise picture of the alpha-testing results. THAAAANKS

ps: if you have any suggestions for what to add/change/remove/burn then i will update the original post to match it
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 07, 2013, 04:01:23 AM
Another way we can approach this is to find the exact steps that create the bug.  I though it happened to me.  But when I tried to reproduce I couldn't.  I have to assume it was my error. 

What are the steps to reproduce it and I'll try.  I know people have written how it occurs, but have not given the steps to re-create it exactly.  Of course, I can also fill out your questions after I try it.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 07, 2013, 04:31:33 AM
Memory card size:
32GB

Is EOSCard utility being used?
N

Date/version of ML attempted:
ml.bot-fly.com october 5th build

Bug present after low-level format (i.e. no ML files on card) but w/ bootflag on?
Never

Bug present with bootflag on and a1ex's minimal autoexec.bin?
Never (tested for a whole week but only about 50 shots total)

Bug present after 1) turning off boot-flag 2) low-level formatting the card 3) reinstalling ML?
Haven't done this yet, bug disappears after low-level format (i had to tap the screen to make sure the ML files were removed)

If the bug occurs sometimes or never, approximately how many pictures have you attempted?
first one after improper reboot (see comment) but the shutter worked before opening bay doorz

Comments:
Steps i took to get the bug:

1) boot ML with 3 modules: raw, dual, ettr
2) no bug, took like 10 pictures
3) went to module debug>enable "disable all modules"
4) opened the memory card/battery door (ie not a proper shutdown!!)
5) booted camera after improper battry door shutdown
6) shutter bug

i also noticed that touch shutter stays green after i hit it and i can't get into ML with the two button and none of the keys do anything on the camera. i am stuck with a responsive liveview adjusting the meter with a persistent green bracket on where i had previously clicked the touchshutter. i had to pull battery, since opening the door in this state didn't turn off the camera

the bug happened again on some reboots without this procedure
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 07, 2013, 04:42:56 AM
the SHUTTER BUG IS BACK again for me. I installed the latest version Oct 5 and I have that darn bug again.

Gary
Edit-I just dropped back to Oct 3 version and the bug is gone.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 07, 2013, 05:58:41 AM
There is an IS setting in the canon menu.. I saw it today adding to custom menu. Does it affect the bug to toggle it? Greyed out on 22mm.


I see raw histogram is broken for pics and ettr complains about vsync.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 07, 2013, 06:44:44 AM
1%,
after a clean reinstall with tonights build i can't get the bug again to see if IS is the issue :(

Turning off IS makes no difference

to get the bug again i just disabled all the plugins and reenabled them again a few times. obviously, it could have just been me tinkering and rebooting several times!

The FIR i've been including seems to be searching for FONTS.DAT. Could we make a new FIR?


1) what does EOScard/macboot actually do?

n/m i figured it out
2) is the boot flag stored on the device or on the card? After a couple low level formats and reboots, i'm going to assume its the camera itself

Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 07, 2013, 08:03:51 AM
Its in camera... you mean the installer looks for font.dat?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 07, 2013, 08:04:32 AM
I just loaded Oct 6 ver. I booted up and I had the shutter bug. I rebooted and then no shutterbug. this is with no modules loaded yet. I loaded all the modules and the shutter bug came back.

Gary
edit- took out modules one by one and when i unloaded ETTR, the shutter bug went away.
loaded all files except ettr and bug was back. i unloaded autexp, dual iso and silent an the bug went away.
I added silent and the bug came back.
I am sorry but this is all relly crazy and ZI cannot pin point what it is. I tried again to remove them one by one and the bug remained until I had all the modules unloaded, then the bug went away.
with a ll the modules off, i loaded just raw rec and the bug came back. i unloaded raw rec and the bug went away.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 07, 2013, 08:17:51 AM
Its in camera... you mean the installer looks for font.dat?

Yeah, thats what i meant...

Gary,
Im still loooking for a reliable way to get the shutter to fail. It seems very unpredictable/inconsistent. One thing ive noticed is that it usually either boots with the bug or boots without the bug. Short of remounting the lens, there doesnt seem to be any way to get it to fail or to fix it without rebooting. Is this the same for u?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 07, 2013, 08:30:10 AM
Yeah, thats what i meant...

Gary,
Im still loooking for a reliable way to get the shutter to fail. It seems very unpredictable/inconsistent. One thing ive noticed is that it usually either boots with the bug or boots without the bug. Short of remounting the lens, there doesnt seem to be any way to get it to fail or to fix it without rebooting. Is this the same for u?
I don't know what to think anymore. I just went thru loading and unloading one at a time almost every combination of modules and sometimes it worked with only one loaded, like ettr and then it wouldn't work ( mean it has the bug by not working). Only one common trait was no modules loaded, the bug went away. this is the craziest thing I have ever seen that can't be narrowed down to one point.

I now went back to version Oct 3 and the bug is gone with all modules loaded.

Oct 8, 2013, Captain's log, version Oct 7, Houston we have a problem. We have a shutter bug. We will circle the  moon once more and try to sling shot our way back home to the safe version Oct 3. This will be our last transmission to you. Obi Wan, you are my last hope.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 09, 2013, 12:32:12 AM
wow, seriously? the 03 version works for you? i have to see if it fixes my woes, also. maybe theres something to that build..
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 09, 2013, 12:37:26 AM
Have a look at probability theory and at post #43. Trying different bins/features/modules will not help at all.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 09, 2013, 01:17:58 AM
Have a look at probability theory and at post #43. Trying different bins/features/modules will not help at all.
Just a did a clean format with deleting ML files the proper way. Then a new long format for exfat format on my sandisk 32gb 45 mb write card. Then a short format with Canon menu. then I applied the autoexec you pointed to on post #43. I also added the Font.dat and the ML folder from tyhe latest build. Flashed the firmware, obviously. rebooted. took a pic, rebooted , took a pic. and rebooted a third time and took a pic. No shutter bug. I did nothing else except what I have just said. I bet I would have had the shutter bug on my old 128Gb Komputerbay card. I never got rid of the bug with that card. and, as I have said before, the only thing I never tried back then was deleting the bootflag. I was not aware of it back then. This new card has also never had eoscard.exe where as my old 128gb card had it applied.

Gary
update, I just updated all the latest Oct 7 version and I have no shutter bug. What is different now to maybe cause no bug? maybe the fact that I have not applied any or all the updates since a clean start using Alex's minimal autoexec.  ??
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 09, 2013, 02:31:46 AM
Hi Gary, Everyone who uses the Komputerbay cards does so as their own risk.  They are factory seconds.  There is a REASON they're factory seconds ;)  I haven't had the shutter bug yet.  I strongly suspect this bug is no longer an issue.  I hope!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 09, 2013, 02:43:18 AM
Hi Gary, Everyone who uses the Komputerbay cards does so as their own risk.  They are factory seconds.  There is a REASON they're factory seconds ;)  I haven't had the shutter bug yet.  I strongly suspect this bug is no longer an issue.  I hope!
anyone that uses any card does so at their own risk. I know people who have had problems with name brands like sandisk. to make matters worse, there are now reports of people selling knock offs online. They look like the real labels, but the memory is not up to the specs advertised. same with batteries. I just got some NP-F970 Sony equiv. batteries and they came with half the amount of cells inside the sealed case. I could feel it was lighter in weight from a real NP-F970 and I could actually squeeze the top of the battery case inwards a bit where there are typically cells. Amazon gave me a full refund, including the original shipping costs and a free return label.
 
i really had no risk on the komputerbay card since amazon has a good 30 day return policy on stuff they sell or fulfill. so, I lost nothing with that card. not even any shipping costs.  I have only been testing so far, so no real production usage yet.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 09, 2013, 11:25:52 AM
"I strongly suspect this bug is no longer an issue.  I hope!"

Nope, I still get the bug. :( lol
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 09, 2013, 02:53:03 PM
Hi Malakai.  What SD card are you using?  Once you install a new version of ML, what are your exact steps to get the bug.  Do you just power on the camera and the shutter doesn't fire?  Thanks.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 09, 2013, 03:36:13 PM
Hi Malakai.  What SD card are you using?  Once you install a new version of ML, what are your exact steps to get the bug.  Do you just power on the camera and the shutter doesn't fire?  Thanks.

I've tried several different cards. A stock mymemory 32gb class 10, Sandisc 16gb class 8, PNY 8gb class 6, 4gb generic card class 4 and a few other cards, 512 to 1gb. all having the same bug. I really dont think its the card that causes the bug. From the tests that I did with a1ex the bug isnt caused by using a different autoexec.bin because it was still happening even using the bare minimum autoexec.bin that only starts the canon FW. I dont think its the .fir because as a1ex explained the modified .fir only hooks into the stock FW to allow it to run the autoexec.bin on startup.

@a1ex or @1%
One thing I want to know is after running the eosm202.fir that allows ML/TL to run. And removing the bootflag. Does this leave anything behind? Does it revert the FW back to original FW or does it just disable the bootflag and leave some things behind?
If it leaves anything behind then this could be the reason the bug keeps coming back for me. If i run the orignal Canon Firmware update to 2.0.2 again, will this reset it back to original stock FW or have canon stopped this?

Clutching at straws now lol
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 09, 2013, 06:57:58 PM
Hi Malakai, since one can't shoot decent RAW with any of those cards it's hard (for me at least) to get worried about a bug I can't seem to replicate. You need to get a recent UHS 1 40MBS or greater card (like Sandisk).  Maybe borrow one?  Maybe it's complete wrong, but the two people with outstanding shutter bug problems are not using what I would consider the rights SD cards.  Shouldn't we factor that out?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 09, 2013, 07:22:56 PM
It shouldn't leave anything behind.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 10, 2013, 11:31:47 AM
Hi Malakai, since one can't shoot decent RAW with any of those cards it's hard (for me at least) to get worried about a bug I can't seem to replicate. You need to get a recent UHS 1 40MBS or greater card (like Sandisk).  Maybe borrow one?  Maybe it's complete wrong, but the two people with outstanding shutter bug problems are not using what I would consider the rights SD cards.  Shouldn't we factor that out?

I tried it yesterday with a brand new SanDisk SD Card, this one (http://www.mymemory.co.uk/SDHC/SanDisk/SanDisk-32GB-Extreme-SD-Card-%28SDHC%29-45MB_s---Class-10) to be exact and it has the same bug.

I think you might find that the type of SD card has no effect on RAW capture. The sensor data will be exactly the same wether you use a cheap nasty card or a high priced top of the range card. All it will effect is the time it takes to write the data to the card.

As for the bug. I use my 18-55mm a lot and its a pain to use ML/TL with this bug. We shouldnt just factor this out just because you dont have it and a few of us do. I can see it not being an issue for those who dont use this lens or the 11-22mm. But there are some that do. Bearing in mind that ML/TL for the EOS M is still in alpha state. For it to ever progress out of alpha these bugs need ironing out.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 10, 2013, 01:32:01 PM
HI Malakai, I bought a brand new EOS-M with 18-55mm just to help de-bug this problem!  Thanks for getting a newer card (though that is an early model of the fast ones).  Interesting that in the other thread someone has the shutter bug with a manual lens.  It seems we don't have enough users.  As you know, we offered to send 1% a lens, but he wanted to wait.  Probably a good thing since someone is now having the problem with a manual lens.

I haven't had the problem, probably because I use these cameras to shoot video RAW. 

I believe I asked you for some steps to reproduce the problem, but they were things like take battery out while camera running, which I won't do because one shouldn't do in any case.

We need steps to produce the bug, from installation, to taking a photo that DO NOT include any inappropriate actions. 

Anyway, I want to fix this too and so does everyone else.  I thought it was fixed.  I take your word for it, it isn't.


Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 10, 2013, 04:46:23 PM
Manual lens thing is probably incorrect settings as I've used extension tubes (just metal) and chipped manual lenses without issue.

Still the bug remains and goes hand in hand with the funky usb behavior. I think we need another boot option... ie rscmgr boot. Don't know if g3gg0 updated the chart for M when he was making it for 7D/60D. Fingers crossed it has free space.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 10, 2013, 04:49:33 PM
The bug is in the minimal bin (also loaded as FIR), which does not reserve any memory (it just jumps to Canon firmware at FF0C0000). So, you need to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 10, 2013, 05:40:56 PM
I don't believe bug is in minimum bin.  Who has that?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 10, 2013, 05:47:42 PM
 ;D me
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 10, 2013, 05:51:00 PM
Some logs, from shutter press until shutter unpress:

http://acoutts.com/a1ex/eosm/good.txt
http://acoutts.com/a1ex/eosm/bad.txt
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 10, 2013, 06:10:18 PM
It never allocates the memory in the bad one. I can't find the point where they diverge tho.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 10, 2013, 06:19:00 PM
Yeah, it doesn't detect SW2 either.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 10, 2013, 06:23:18 PM
I don't see any free rscmgr memory from just casually looking... there would have to be a space in between one of the sections.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 10, 2013, 10:58:23 PM
Malakai and a1ex, I've mentioned it few times now in both threads. But I had to re-flash Canons original firmware to get rid of the shutter bug. Also factory reset settings to get rid of some wierd colors in liveview during bursts.

My memorycard was totally formatted and clean when I still had the bug. So don't just blindly look at what is currently on your card.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 10, 2013, 11:14:59 PM
Hi EVVK, can you give some specific step-by-step instructions, thanks!  (there are so many places one could misunderstand).
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 11, 2013, 07:19:47 AM
the shutter bug is back on my camera. I even tried a new 32 gb card. I have no bug with just the Canon install and no ML. As soon as I install ML, no matter what version, the bug shows up. I am trying the Oct 11 version of ML I saw posted tonight. Seems that once the bug shows up, it just stays and now shows up on both cards.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 11, 2013, 08:23:04 AM
Hi EVVK, can you give some specific step-by-step instructions, thanks!  (there are so many places one could misunderstand).

Sure, I'm mostly written this from memory.. but it should be almost correct:

Uninstall/reverting back to known working state:
1) Put camera in M-mode and flash the the FIR file that was included with ML.
2) Disable bootflag with the jog dial as instructed.
3) Do a low-level format in the camera.
4) Download Windows version of the firmware from Canons site:
http://www.canon.co.uk/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_M.aspx
5) Put EOSM1202.FIR from the ZIP in the clean memorycard and flash it the same way in M mode.
4) Go to menu (Still in M-mode) and "Clear settings", all camera settings should be enough (c.fn not needed).
5) Done.

Install ML and re-producing the shutter bug:
1) Use EOSCard or other methods which you prefer to set the bootflags to the card. (I use Ubuntu so can't really give any guidance here)
2) Download EOSM labeled ML from http://ml.bot-fly.com/ and extract the files to card.
2) Put the card back in the camera and flash the ML FIR file in M mode, like FW update
3) Reboot the camera, (auto)load all the ML modules. No modules needed with Oct 10 build to reproduce the issue.
4) Shut down the camera, and remove the battery
5) Insert either EF-M 11-22mm or 18-55mm lens if you are not using those already and start up the camera again.
6) Get focus and press the shutter button. Either it's working or not. Repeat few times again from step 4.
7) have a coffee
8.) You could also try from step 4 with the EF-M 22mm or EF to EF-M adapter with other lenses just to see that it's still working from cold boot, any lens will work with a how-swap.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 11, 2013, 08:42:23 AM
Quote
the BUG is back on my camera.

Yes, this is what I'm trying to tell you. All this going back and forth between multiple versions is completely useless. You may get lucky or you may not; if you get lucky, the bug will return sooner or later.

Quote
I thought it was fixed.
Please stop speculating whether the bug is fixed or not. It's not.

To fix the bug, one has to understand what's going on and patch it somehow (emphasis on understand, not "it seems to work"). We need a clear way to reproduce it (a deterministic way, not a probabilistic one like yesterday it worked and today it doesn't). So, if you try different settings, you should do this in order to find a clear pattern for reproducing it, not to try to get rid of the bug.

I've hunted a similar bug in 550D/600D for roughly 1 year. Turns out it was a buffer overflow in Canon code: they were writing a 32-bit 0 in the middle of ML code. There was no side effects without ML, because the 0 was in the middle of a uninitialized malloc area (where ML was loading). With ML, the side effects were, obviously, depending where exactly that 0 was falling: from not noticeable (writing a 0 on something already 0 or on unused memory), to cropped strings (say it displayed Inte instead of Intervalometer) or weird behavior if the 0 was in the middle of some code (lockup in playback mode, garbled histogram and so on). The deterministic pattern was: (1) the symptom was always the same with a given autoexec.bin and (2) any code added or removed before the affected location (even just a variable declaration) was changing the symptom somehow (of course, the symptom should have been visible and known before inserting the test code), but any code added after that (in the source code) never changed the symptom. This allowed me to narrow down the affected location within a small function, dumped that part of RAM, compared "before" and "after", and then g3gg0 patched it within one day (remember: took 1 year to find a pattern and diagnose it). See https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/99e80332797c53d3b8f3b75b3ad7fe7f608da4c5

So far, my observations are:

- The bug never happens with plain Canon firmware.
- The bug happens with any user code (even with simply jumping to Canon firmware, both autoexec and FIR), with some probability. The autocorrelation is very high (once the bug appears, it's very likely to stay).
- Removing the lens and putting it back will always remove the symptoms.
- Incomplete reboot (power down and power up quickly) will always remove the symptoms.
- When the bug is present, enabling the intervalometer will lock up the camera (battery pull needed).
- Do not confuse the bug with the camera simply failing to focus (that's not a bug).

The above items should be 100% true. If you can prove that any of them is wrong, please do.

So, here's my current hypothesis:

Jumping to Canon firmware from the bootloader may not be the best thing to do. One has to understand what exactly the bootloader is doing when it's jumping to Canon firmware on its own, without ML, and what is different when our code is jumping to Canon firmware.


Just a guess: when our code jumps to Canon firmware, lens initialization may be incomplete. Listening to the lens pins may be helpful (if there's a difference in the logs, it may confirm this). We may be able to force a lens re-initialization somehow (since the symptoms disappear when by rotating the lens). Be careful though: this will only address the symptoms without understanding the root cause of the bug, so I do not recommend this way (or if you find a solution with this method, you should not stop researching).
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 11, 2013, 09:07:37 AM
It can be a few hours or a few days as to when the bug shows up on my camera. I couldn't say what I actually did to cause it to appear since I do a lot of testing everyday with this camera and I cannot recall every step.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 11, 2013, 10:55:20 AM
a1ex,

First off, thanks for taking the time to explain the appropriate approach and giving us an example.

We've only had one user report that the minimal .bin still has the bug. I couldn't get a shutterbug with the minimal bin. Has this been confirmed? I get the feeling you were able to reproduce the bug with the minimal auto exec...

I get this weird thing i've noticed digging through the menu:
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftl.bot-fly.com%2Fmisc%2FVRAM1.BMP&hash=463f8eaf178a82c8f62f51f4ad6d8945)

Lastly, touch shutter also locks up the camera. EDIT: if the shutter won't fire because of the bug

Thanks again! very intelligent and informative
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 11, 2013, 11:22:53 AM
For me, this one user showing the bug with the minimal bin is relevant. He can reproduce it every time and I've got the diagnostic logs from him. Of course, having more users that can reproduce it with the minimal bin is even better (but I have a feeling that not many people tried it).

The exact conditions that trigger the bug are not known, so this shows the issue is not in the user code, not in the memory allocation approach and not in what modules you load or how many. It's true that these things cause the bug to come and go, but I don't think they are the root cause.

PROP is a tool for reverse engineering and it's not meant to be touched by users. In my opinion, it should never be included in the public builds (but since EOS-M development only happens in Tragic Lantern, which diverged in significant ways from Magic Lantern, I can't do much about it).
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 11, 2013, 11:32:26 AM
my concern is that with all the twisting on and off of the lens, there may have been damage. you're probably right, anyway, but would it be a good idea to suggest that malakai turn on the "shoot without lens" in the custom functions menu while trying the minimal build?

also, i meant to show the weird "µ'" that shows up in my menu below the PROP function, is that normal? apologies that i was not clear

from my experience with the bug i agree that every build i've tried so far has it. it is not reliably reproduced.

malakai, if you haven't tried yet, could you set the shoot without lens custom function?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 11, 2013, 11:34:56 AM
I twist off lenses and remove battery all day long, no damage yet.

I've already explained what's up with the PROP function (remove it, it's FEATURE_PROP_DISPLAY in features.h).

We've tried with "shoot without lens", AF, MF... doesn't seem to change anything.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 11, 2013, 12:24:30 PM
ah, gotcha, didn't realize the µ symbol was part of that
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 11, 2013, 03:53:33 PM
Quote
also, i meant to show the weird "µ'" that shows up in my menu below the PROP function, is that normal? apologies that i was not clear

The "u" is just property value being converted to string. The prop display is pretty harmless, but you can disable it and save 1K of bin maybe. It helps if lets say you want to find out what happens when you change touch shutter (lets assume its a property)... You navigate to the value and then turn touch shutter on, value is X, turn touch shutter off, value is Y. Now you know how to toggle it.

Quote
Turns out it was a buffer overflow in Canon code: they were writing a 32-bit 0 in the middle of ML code. There was no side effects without ML, because the 0 was in the middle of a uninitialized malloc are

Didn't g3ggo make some kind of memory protection? This seems likely related + to the USB bug. It is affected by using or not using malloc.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 11, 2013, 04:14:25 PM
The overflow I'm talking about was caused by Canon's init_task (before most ML stuff has a chance to run).

mem_prot is good to catch some null pointer errors (writing below 0x1000 or something like this), but on 5D2 for example it just locks up. The stack overflow warnings are quite handy, but they can't catch every possible overflow, and they slow down raw_rec by 2 MB/s or so (enough for people to complain).

The new memory backend catches off-by-one (or off-by-a-little) errors, also double free, but not much else.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 11, 2013, 04:36:21 PM
With the USB bug... malloc goes down by 1K after unplugging the cable and camera being unable to shut down.

The stack in that case also shows 0 sometimes.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 11, 2013, 04:39:19 PM
Can you catch some stack overflow messages? in what task do these happen?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 11, 2013, 05:01:14 PM
It did at one point show some but I haven't been able to reproduce it recently... got the red text with stack overflow... now it just says 0 sometimes with no messages.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: g3gg0 on October 11, 2013, 05:23:04 PM
If you just re-read everything, I had the bug with a clean memory card, it's a left over from ML. The pure Canon firmware doesn't produce the shutter bug so it's related to ML, I just had to back off everything back to stock to get it all clean of the issues that were from use of ML, why complain, I'm just trying to feed information here! Which could determine hints of which wrong addresses are altered by ML.

as magic lantern is NON-PERMANENT, it wont have any leftovers that could lead to such behavior.
the only permanent change that is made is the boot flag and that is canon's own code.

so either it is clearly connected to the boot flag or all conclusions already made are inconsistent.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: g3gg0 on October 11, 2013, 05:27:58 PM
- Removing the lens and putting it back will always remove the symptoms.

even when the battery is pulled?
does the lens get permanent power supply?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 11, 2013, 05:30:04 PM
If you pull the battery and do a cold reboot, the bug comes back.

If you remove the lens and put it back with the camera still powered, the lens will probably get reinitialized => the bug goes away.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 11, 2013, 05:48:43 PM
Maybe we need a log of taking the lens on/off and then check that... at least an interim fix could be made.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 11, 2013, 06:33:58 PM
Ill do one later when i get back home.  :D
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 11, 2013, 09:12:11 PM
Log is here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lypf1cb281gq8t6/DM.LOG)

Process.
Camera on. Run EOSM_202.fir (new from a1ex with no autoexec.bin). Check shutterbug is still occurring by trying to take a shot. After confirming bug is there I went into TL and enabled DM.log and quickly tried to take a shot but the bug prevents shutter. I then rotated lens on camera to eliminate the bug and took another shot, this time the shutter activated and quickly went into TL and stopped the log.

This log should therefore contain one shutter press with no activation, some kind of lens disconnect and reconnect and another shutter press with shutter activation.

Good luck.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 11, 2013, 11:35:48 PM
Today I had my first definite shutter-bug problem.  I did the lens twist thing to get out of it.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 12, 2013, 04:20:01 AM
Max,

Welcome to the club. So, how does it feel? Ready to spend days looking into it and going in circles? I am just kidding you. I know it doesn't feel good just like the others here and I am happy to see 1%, Alex and the others working hard at finding the cause.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 12, 2013, 04:29:57 AM
FTR, I just tried the minimal autoexec.bin and it has the shutter bug. I switched back to using Oct 8th version ML and it also has the bug. I also understand all that has been said by Alex on the matter. Let me know if there is something I can do to help more on this issue.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 12, 2013, 02:35:17 PM
Ok, some new news, i now also have shutter bug with the 22mm efm using the latest build that a1ex sent me. I installed TL with this lens on the camera this morning and got the shutter bug. Very strange.
Ive tried it a few times, its repeatable every time. Rotating the lens removes the bug. The bug doesnt appear if i use the efm adapter and an efs lens or M42 lens.

 I guess this shows the bug isnt related to IS or even the lens. Possibly more to do with lens activation. Does the running of the fir make any changes to lens FW as now neither my 22mm or 18-55mm will take shots with TL installed.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 12, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Gary, this is not a club I want to belong to on so many levels ;)  Anyway, like I said, I bought this camera partly to help out in the cause.  So whatever I can do.  I have suspected that one of the problems might be there are too few users with this camera.  My guess is Alex and 1% would rather die than let this problem get the best of them so I'm confident it will be solved! 

Anything I can do to help, I'm here.

Oh, and let me point out 1% and Alex, that I have two cameras one with 18-55 and one 22mm, so easy for me to test the same build on two cameras configured differently, or whatever might need comparing.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: nanomad on October 12, 2013, 02:57:33 PM
Can you guys to a little test for me?

- Note down the "release shutter without lens" setting (under custom functions)
- Try to take a picture. If it fails change the setting to a different value

Repeat a couple of times. The question is wheter that setting does somehow re-initialize the lens communication or not
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 12, 2013, 03:08:54 PM
I'm jammed up with events all day today.  But am around all day tomorrow.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 12, 2013, 03:32:50 PM
Can you guys to a little test for me?

- Note down the "release shutter without lens" setting (under custom functions)
- Try to take a picture. If it fails change the setting to a different value

Repeat a couple of times. The question is wheter that setting does somehow re-initialize the lens communication or not

This makes no difference, tried this many times.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: nanomad on October 12, 2013, 04:27:30 PM
Cool, thanks for reporting back!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 12, 2013, 05:29:43 PM
Can you guys to a little test for me?

- Note down the "release shutter without lens" setting (under custom functions)
- Try to take a picture. If it fails change the setting to a different value

Repeat a couple of times. The question is wheter that setting does somehow re-initialize the lens communication or not
same here for me. no change. bug remains

gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 12, 2013, 05:31:55 PM
Gary, this is not a club I want to belong to on so many levels ;)  Anyway, like I said, I bought this camera partly to help out in the cause.  So whatever I can do.  I have suspected that one of the problems might be there are too few users with this camera.  My guess is Alex and 1% would rather die than let this problem get the best of them so I'm confident it will be solved! 

Anything I can do to help, I'm here.

Oh, and let me point out 1% and Alex, that I have two cameras one with 18-55 and one 22mm, so easy for me to test the same build on two cameras configured differently, or whatever might need comparing.
now we're hearing that the 22m is also having the bug.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 14, 2013, 06:36:02 AM
gary, sorry, don't wanna piss off the mods in the alpha forum. So i just redid the whole procedure and i got the bug again after one reboot, without pulling the battery. i pull the battery to make sure the camera is completely off. i don't really know if it does anything tho :P
One thing I did not do was pull the battery during all of my steps. And I always leave the bootflag on. If you have no bug with minimal autoexec, do you still have no bug when you install Oct 12th ver after that and do not load any modules? If you load all the modules, do you still not have the bug or do you.

I will try again after I here from 1% and Alex. I would bet the bug returns after a certain module loads.

Gary
i never turn off boot flag either. i do still have the bug after i install oct12th without modules. and now i turned on the modules i normally use: dual_iso, raw_rec, and ettr, but the bug remains
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 14, 2013, 01:38:51 PM
gary, sorry, don't wanna piss off the mods in the alpha forum. So i just redid the whole procedure and i got the bug again after one reboot, without pulling the battery. i pull the battery to make sure the camera is completely off. i don't really know if it does anything tho :Pi never turn off boot flag either. i do still have the bug after i install oct12th without modules. and now i turned on the modules i normally use: dual_iso, raw_rec, and ettr, but the bug remains
I was wondering why everyone, including 1%, was talking about the shutter bug in the alpha thread again. I agree we all should stay in this thread for shutter bug related talk. Maybe someone can move all the posts that were just made over there to this thread.

Sounds like we have different results again with this bug on different cameras which makes it still very confusing. I was hoping to hear you had the same results that I have now.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 14, 2013, 02:33:00 PM
I was hoping to hear you had the same results that I have now.

lol, yeah
i was hoping for that too. thats why i tried it 4 different times. without fail, it comes back within 10 or so reboots. one time it happened on the second reboot :(
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 02:47:38 PM
We want to find bugs that can always be replicated.  It's easier to debug something that way.  Hopefully, fixing those will lead to the more elusive problems. 

EOS-M 10/12 build, 18-55 STM lens
Can you guys boot into Movie mode.
Make sure autofocus is on
half press shutter

Does screen freeze?  Tried once with 22mm and it also froze.

Thanks!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 14, 2013, 02:59:35 PM
We want to find bugs that can always be replicated.  It's easier to debug something that way.  Hopefully, fixing those will lead to the more elusive problems. 

EOS-M 10/12 build, 18-55 STM lens
Can you guys boot into Movie mode.
Make sure autofocus is on
half press shutter

Does screen freeze?  Tried once with 22mm and it also froze.

Thanks!
I just tried and it does not freeze here. I am still without the bug.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 04:50:13 PM
SOMEWHAT IGNORE ALL THIS.  Looks like this is a screen refresh issue, though maybe a bug, not the shutter bug...the search continues...

Latest thinking, bugs happen after a change in exposure settings.  Believe, based on DM stuff below, that two processes may be over-stepping each other, focus and exposure?

When glitches begin "Clear all settings" in Canon menu seems to fix things.

Can someone try this?  Keep autofocus on. Go into Movie mode, set camera on Manual, then change either shutter or aperture until the image would be seriously under exposed, like 1/2500 f/5.6.  Then do a half-press of the shutter, maybe a few presses. My screen gets corrupted. 

I then tried with 22mm.  Canon "Clear Settings".  Works fine.  Change to Manual mode, still works.  Change to grossly underexposed image, shutter bug.

Went in, enabled DM log.  No bug!  Tried photo mode, movie mode, nothing.  Save DM log.  Tried again, fine.  Re-start, under-exposed, bug is back.

Put 18-55 back on.  Same thing.  DM logging somehow stops bug, even after it's turned off.  But once camera is on again, screen corruption bug comes back from under-exposed shot.

Timing issue as Alex? suggested with memory read/write?

Misc Evidence:

o. To test potential exposure/focus overlapping, zoomed lens and focused quickly between window, floor, anything that might confuse it and screen did start to get corrupted--though was difficult to achieve.
o. If I turn OFF auto-focus and one-shot in movie menu, the screen still goes haywire, but not as badly.  After setting exposure correctly, camera goes back to normal.
o. In manual focus mode, it happened that by changing the shutter the screen will go up a quarter of an inch with each change.  So moving the wheel, and part of the screen moves up, and the bottom part goes white.  Moving shutter speed back down brings back the image part of the screen down.  Almost as if you can move the screen up an down when the wheel is changing the shutter speed.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 14, 2013, 09:15:38 PM
Maxotics,
are you in ML liveview or standard canon view? camera may not take the picture because it needs more light to focus. i may not understan entirely...
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
Maxotics,
are you in liveview or standard canon view? camera may not take the picture because it needs more light to focus. i may not understan entirely...

I believe live-view.  When it's in manual focus mode, or DM is activated, it takes photos no matter how badly I set shutter or aperture.   What you should see is the screen getting corrupted and then the shutter bug by following the steps above.  I want 1% and us all to have a fool-proof way of getting the shutter bug. 

Thanks again Jerrykill.  You're right, it's a matter of the screen.  I can get it back by going to a good exposure.  The search continues...
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 14, 2013, 10:08:24 PM
Quote
DM logging somehow stops bug

So taking over dryosdebugmsg stops the bug or no?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 10:23:35 PM
So taking over dryosdebugmsg stops the bug or no?

Sorry 1%, don't know what that quite means.  When I follow the steps above the screen goes crazy when the exposure if far off.  If I enable DM the craziness stops.  And stays stopped even when I turn/save DM.  But screen bug comes back again if I cycle camera on/off.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 14, 2013, 10:24:49 PM
DM log takes over dryos debugmsg which prints all those nice log messages... if this kills the shutter bug it means some message is missed or printed when the bug occurs.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 10:29:47 PM
I still don't understand quite.  This isn't the shutter bug, in that I can keep taking images.  It might be related.  This is, I guess, a live-view bug. 
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 14, 2013, 10:31:17 PM
FPS override?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 10:35:15 PM
FPS override?

How did you see in the future ;)  Yes, when I disable FPS ( was at 23.9) the problem goes away!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 14, 2013, 10:38:06 PM
On digic V with the flip flop FPS it can screw up and add the wrong values for the mode. The fix is to press play and make it re do everything...

ie. it will place values from crop into regular lv or 10x and then the screen will be purple/screwy.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 14, 2013, 10:42:33 PM
Yes, fix it in a way,  Pressing play and back get you to a good screen, but if you half-press while the exposure is set badly the corrupted screen comes back.  I can work around it.

Hopefully this stuff is helpful.  I'll keep searching for a way to reliably get show-stopping shutter bug.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 14, 2013, 10:50:55 PM
When AFing the camera goes to 60FPS so that is also a problem.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 15, 2013, 12:28:29 AM
Thanks again Jerrykill.  You're right, it's a matter of the screen.  I can get it back by going to a good exposure.  The search continues...
stick to manual focus, since with the shutterbug it won't fire in manual focus, either

Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 15, 2013, 12:46:48 AM
If this was the bug I was experiencing at the Bar Mitzvah I could have easily worked around it, per 1% instructions.  So I'm back to not being absolutely sure I've experienced the elusive shutter bug.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 15, 2013, 01:25:04 AM
I think the best thing is to try in MF.. I too forget FPS override, its unnecessary in photo mode just taking pics.

I'm guessing since I don't have the lenses that the shutter bug is when you don't AF but hold down the shutter and nothing happens. SW2 is missed and you can click away with no results.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 15, 2013, 02:34:53 AM
with the shutter bug you can AF or not, you will not get a fire until you reboot. If you have AF on, it will find focus just fine, it will even display green brackets, but thats as far as it'll go. if u try the touch shutter, it'll freeze the camera at the green bracket
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 16, 2013, 03:08:49 PM
Alex and 1%,
You asked for ways to replicate the bug and I think I have found a way. I also figured out how to get rid of the bug. I mentioned here the other day I did not have the bug again. I added the modules one by one and I eventually had all the modules loaded and I still did not have the bug. Even after typical use of the camera recording raw and taking pics using the EFM 18-55mm lens.

I got the bug again last night when I used the USB cable to transfer files and load picture styles. When I unplug the USB, the camera would not shut off as I have mentioned here before. I have replicated that using the USB will always add the bug. 

I got rid of the bug by using Canon Clear All Settings and then Canon format, but, keep the ML files on the card option and do not use the low level format. After the format, reboot the camera and then the bug goes away. All the ML stuff was still loaded and working. I have replicated this procedure as well.

 I am using the latest Oct 15th version. The bad thing is I then lose the exfat format I had on the card. The Canon format always returns it to Fat32.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 16, 2013, 05:18:34 PM
So if you don't use the USB cable its ok?

The USB is hard to fix, it won't shut down even if you don't use malloc memory. It just pops the camera back on in a weird can't do dm log/use a bunch of stuff state. Its a different mode, when the camera comes on with that yellow/flashing light you can still use USB. If it starts the bug I'd just not use it and dump the camera by pulling the card.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 16, 2013, 05:57:41 PM
So if you don't use the USB cable its ok?

The USB is hard to fix, it won't shut down even if you don't use malloc memory. It just pops the camera back on in a weird can't do dm log/use a bunch of stuff state. Its a different mode, when the camera comes on with that yellow/flashing light you can still use USB. If it starts the bug I'd just not use it and dump the camera by pulling the card.
Yes, I have not used the USB and it is still bug free. We have to use the USB sometimes like to get the picture profiles on the camera. When I do the Canon format, it deletes my user styles. I do need the Cinestyle profile, but I can hold off for now while helping to test.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 16, 2013, 09:09:36 PM
Alex and 1%,
You asked for ways to replicate the bug and I think I have found a way. I also figured out how to get rid of the bug. I mentioned here the other day I did not have the bug again. I added the modules one by one and I eventually had all the modules loaded and I still did not have the bug. Even after typical use of the camera recording raw and taking pics using the EFM 18-55mm lens.

I got the bug again last night when I used the USB cable to transfer files and load picture styles. When I unplug the USB, the camera would not shut off as I have mentioned here before. I have replicated that using the USB will always add the bug. 

I got rid of the bug by using Canon Clear All Settings and then Canon format, but, keep the ML files on the card option and do not use the low level format. After the format, reboot the camera and then the bug goes away. All the ML stuff was still loaded and working. I have replicated this procedure as well.

 I am using the latest Oct 15th version. The bad thing is I then lose the exfat format I had on the card. The Canon format always returns it to Fat32.

Gary

This clears the shutter bug?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 16, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
Shit, that is a catch 22. I like marvell's and it sucks now you have to chose.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 17, 2013, 12:08:35 AM
The steps gary outlined didnt clear the bug for me.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 17, 2013, 01:42:55 AM
I never use USB, maybe part reason I haven't had bug yet?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on October 17, 2013, 02:17:43 AM
Probably relevant part is to clear canon settings. So I'd take the card out and then do that and see if the bug is gone.

Only q? bug lens on or bug lens off?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 17, 2013, 02:53:43 AM
My experience too, about clear settings.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 17, 2013, 04:05:39 AM
The steps gary outlined didnt clear the bug for me.
I was afraid of that thinking everyone might have different things going on. :-(  How many times did you try Malakai. maybe give it one more try and make sure you do the steps exactly. Clear "All" camera settings in Canon menus. Then Canon Format-keep ML files and do not use the low level format. just reboot and try to take a pic. This bug is crazy. I tried it and it worked for me 3 times. I did this all with the ML Oct 15th version already installed with the bug.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 17, 2013, 04:09:34 AM
Shit, that is a catch 22. I like marvell's and it sucks now you have to chose.
I have been trying Cinestyle, Marvel and Flaat 11. I keep coming back to Cinestryle.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 17, 2013, 04:32:33 AM
With no bug, I just tried plugging the USB cable in to register the picture styles to the camera I just mentioned. When that finished, I could not shut the camera off with it hanging on the Sensor Cleaning. I tried it with leaving the USB cable plugged in and then with it pulled out.  The only way was to pull the battery. I was surprised the bug was not there when I rebooted. All the the modules were gone with the warning displayed "Not shut down properly". I turn on Modules Debug, then reboot and then turn off the Modules Debug and reboot again and then all the modules will return but you need one more reboot to turn them all on. All the modules are loaded showing OK. Still no bug??  Usually that all makes the bug return for me, but not now. I don't know why, but that is what I just tried doing. I now have the picture styles loaded using the USB cable and EOS Utility.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 17, 2013, 10:48:07 AM
I tried your steps exactly three times, then variations on your steps. including low level format and using different cards. still no luck.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 18, 2013, 05:44:22 AM
Update. I have just used the USB cable to transfer pic and mov files to my computer and I still do not have the bug. I do still have the Sensor Cleaning hang up with shutting the camera off and I pull the battery to get back to rebooting. I then  have to reload all the modules again like I explained here before and everything goes as usual. And I still do not have the bug after all of that. The only problem now for me is the USB hanging the shutdown and then having to reload the modules. Of course, I would not be surprised if the bug did return on my camera. Hopefully, not and hopefully it will all with be fixed for everyone.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on October 19, 2013, 04:24:53 PM
Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum, this is my first post.
Today I installed the ML in my brand new M with firm.2.0.2.
 I thought I could have some little probability of "no shutter bug" due to the new lens I own, the 11-22 wide.
No way; after a bit of tampering with the menus, the bug showed up.
I quit testing, due to the temp warning: a red rectangle with 128 units (degrees?) .
Is it safe, or I run the risk of frying the cpu?
Thanks in advance  ;D
Stefano
Italy
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 19, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
Update=I managed to get the bug back today. I wanted to try and get my card back to exfat. the procedures I explained earlier to have no bug also made the card a Fat 32 from having to use the Canon camera format.

I copied ll the folders and files from the card to a temp folder on my computer. I reformatted the card on my computer to exfat and then copied all the folders and files back to the card that I just put in the that temp folder. I booted the camera and no ML, but the files were on the card. I had to do a new firmware update for ML and after the reboot the bug was back. Something in the EOSM_202.FIR file is maybe causing the bug??

Gary
Edit- I did my bug removal procedure. I outlined the steps earlier here in this thread. This procedure has worked many times now for me to get rid of the bug. The only problem I now have is that I cannot use the exfat format to record 8GB files, it will always reset back to Fat32 when I do the camera format to remove the bug.

Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 19, 2013, 05:14:05 PM
Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum, this is my first post.
Today I installed the ML in my brand new M with firm.2.0.2.
 I thought I could have some little probability of "no shutter bug" due to the new lens I own, the 11-22 wide.
No way; after a bit of tampering with the menus, the bug showed up.
I quit testing, due to the temp warning: a red rectangle with 128 units (degrees?) .
Is it safe, or I run the risk of frying the cpu?
Thanks in advance  ;D
Stefano
Italy
Stefano, welcome to the forum. My camera is currently showing 85 degrees, but it does change often. Sometime it is 125 degrees. I also wondered if these temps are too high. It also says C for centigrade, but I have to think that is wrong and maybe needs to be looked at and fixed. I feel it should say F for Fahrenheit considering the high numbers. This thread is for the shutter bug. I should probably make a post in the main eos m thread about the temps.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 20, 2013, 09:28:01 PM
This post is mainly for the new members coming in having to deal with the shutter bug. If you are booting ML and can't fire the shutter, the single best way to get around this, from my experience, is to simply run the firmware update again and disable the ML bootflag within the camera.
If you're unfamiliar with the process, then here are the steps you need to turn off the bootflag which boots ML

if you need ML from this point on you just enable it. Does anyone get a bug even with the bootdisk flag off?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 20, 2013, 10:40:46 PM

if you need ML from this point on you just enable it. Does anyone get a bug even with the bootdisk flag off?
...   how do you enable it after turning off the bootflag? or are you saying you don't have the bug because you don't have ML loading and running? I do not know about other people, but I take pics and shoot raw video while using the camera, so not having the bug is very important.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 20, 2013, 11:15:51 PM
gary,
If you update firmware from the installer .fir file yet again, then it will leave your camera with the bootflag on. I was just thinking about this because i got to shoot a few pictures and ran into the bug at a critical point, and i just did that so i wouldn't ahve to deal with it. i did not need ML features at the time since it was a sunny day and the bracketing feature doesn't work right at the moment. i used canon's AEB after turning off ML. it didn't take that long but it was 100% reliable afterwards. i know many of us say twist the lens on and off or do a quickreboot, but i feel like it would be best practice to simply disable the bootflag for the duration you are not using the 22mm or you don't need the features (like when you're not shooting raw).

I posted this because at the time i thougth to myself, "no one on the forums seems to have brought this up as the best way to get on with your nonML shooting if the shutter bug is inhibiting you." i don't usually go back and forth between shooting/video and i use dual_iso in low light. Also, in low light, i generally use the 22mm cuz its faster. It has never given me a shutter bug yet.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 20, 2013, 11:28:50 PM
so, we have a third way to deal with it. ;D

Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 21, 2013, 11:51:51 AM
IMHO you guys are over-complicating this bug.
It only occurs when ML/TL is installed or running.
When the bootflag is disabled ML/TL is not running unless you used the non-bootloading version.
If you dont have bootflag installed or have not run the non-bootloading version then you wont have the bug as you are running default canon firmware.

Here are the facts.



edit: Spelling and missed words.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 21, 2013, 01:31:46 PM
IMHO you guys are over-complicating this bug.
It only occurs when ML/TL is installed or running.
When the bootflag is disabled ML/TL is not running unless you used the non-bootloading version.
If you dont have bootflag installed or have not run the non-bootloading version then you wont have the bug as you are running default canon firmware.

Here are the facts.

  • Installing any version of Magic or Tragic Lantern can cause the shutter bug to occur with any EF-M lens.
  • There have been no reports that the bug effects lenses using the EF-M adapter.
  • Running with the bootflag enabled means your camera will boot Magic/Tragic Lantern first then Canon firmware and can cause the bug with EF-M lenses
  • Running with the bootflag disabled means your camera only boots from the Canon firmware. As Magic/Tragic Lantern is no longer running the bug wont exist.
  • Enabling and Disabling the bootflag is as simple as runnng the firmware updater again.
  • There are two ways to clear the bug when running Tragic Lantern. Do a quick power cycle or just rotate the lens while powered to break contact between the lens and body.
  • There are some people not experiencing the bug with different EF-M lenses. This could be due to many factors.
Malakai,
I am not over complicating this. I am doing what we all here are suppose to be doing and that is testing " ML with the EOS M camera". The most important "fact" is that the bug is real, it has not been solved yet and many of us have the bug.

Cheers,
Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 21, 2013, 01:52:15 PM
I meant over-complicating in how this bug occurs. I think everyone on this thread is trying to help find a solution to this bug. I have it bad, it effects all of my ef-m lenses and its only on a much older build of TL that I can use my 22mm with TL without having the bug.
Ive been testing many solutions with a!ex the past few weeks to try and narrow down where the bug is occuring but as he said this bug is like looking for a needle in a haystack and a similar bug on another camera took nearly a year to find.

I was trying to clarify that the bug only occurs when running ML/TL. It doesnt occur when ML/TL isnt running, great information for people who are reading this thread and trying to figure out if they should run TL or not.

:)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 21, 2013, 02:31:15 PM
Thanks Jerrykil and Malakai, I posted your nice synopsis on the Shooter's guide.  I've been very busy with work lately.  Hope to get back to the camera soon.  In the beginning I was talking this camera up, then I stopped, but now I feel that yes, if you plan your camera usage around the shutter bug it isn't a big deal.  SD cards are so cheap now I'm just going to go the 2-card solution (photo or video).
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 21, 2013, 04:09:42 PM
IMHO you guys are over-complicating this bug.
It only occurs when ML/TL is installed or running.
...
I made the post about turning off the bootflag because I thought maybe some of the newer guys didn't know how its done and, because, in certain usage scenarios,  i would rather turn ML off once and for all rather than deal with quick power cycles and lens twisting every time i reboot the camera. Apologize if that caused confusion.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on October 21, 2013, 06:56:41 PM
Hi everybody,
first of all I wish to thank all the developers and contributors to this incredible project. It's fantastic!

I think I've found another way to clear the shutter bug lock-up;
I generally keep the sensor autocleaning off, but if the shutter locks due to the bug, I can simply unlock it by starting a sensor cleaning.
So far, this method worked.
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on October 21, 2013, 07:24:22 PM
Gary can you confirm this?  If so, I'll put in Shooter's guide.   
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 21, 2013, 08:07:14 PM
Gary can you confirm this?  If so, I'll put in Shooter's guide.
Max, Confirm what? I am not sure what you are asking me to confirm? Everything I have posted here are things I have done repeatedly before posting here.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 21, 2013, 08:32:46 PM
Gary, Use sensor clean to clear shutterbug, ill try this out later.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 21, 2013, 10:05:37 PM
Just thinking...Is there any room for anything that could be tried with the FIR installer? If the bootflag could be set in some other way?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 21, 2013, 10:20:33 PM
It's not the bootflag. The bug is present even with a minimal FIR that simply jumps to Canon firmware without enabling the bootflag.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 21, 2013, 11:02:46 PM
sensor clean gets rid of the bug for me
does it reboot the camera?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 22, 2013, 12:05:49 AM
Sensor clear does the fast power cycle at the end so clears the bug. Same as turning it off and back on again, but its slower to do sensor clean.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on October 26, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
Hi everybody!
I'm still investigating on the shutterbug, to find a possible sequence of events ALWAYS triggering the problem.
I'd like just to add some more info here, maybe it's useful to somebody.

Shutterbug present, deleted ML folders, *.bin, *.fir.
Installed latest TL, turned on, bug present.
Removed lens, take photo, turn off, turn on, bug present.  :o
Then I tried something else;

Unflagged "bootdisk" and "eos_develop" with EosCard 1.40
Turn on, no TL running, shutterbug present.
Remove lens, take photo, turn off, turn on, shutterbug!
Removed card.
Camera works perfectly without card.

Low level card format, flagged Eos_develop and bootdisk copy TL files, turn on camera, shutterbug present.
Removed battery, battery in place, turn on camera, bug present.
Reset lens and camera settings, camera works.
Switch power, bug present.
Today it seems impossible to take a picture with TL.
Hope it helps!
Ciao to everybody
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on October 26, 2013, 10:19:11 AM
Unflagged "bootdisk" and "eos_develop" with EosCard 1.40
Turn on, no TL running, shutterbug present.

This one is interesting; maybe the bug is caused by card activity from bootloader code? (it might corrupt some memory or registers and the main firmware doesn't undo this).
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 26, 2013, 12:27:42 PM
Hi everybody!
I'm still investigating on the shutterbug, to find a possible sequence of events ALWAYS triggering the problem.
I'd like just to add some more info here, maybe it's useful to somebody.

Shutterbug present, deleted ML folders, *.bin, *.fir. .....

Stefano
How did you remove the ML folders and files? You have toi do a Canon full system clean  and then you have to use the Canon menu Format. First you will see at that step it says to remove ML, tap the screen once. After the format, reboot and then the bug will be gone and you have no ML running. You can't remove the ML folders and files by using your computer delete function.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 26, 2013, 12:34:28 PM
This one is interesting; maybe the bug is caused by card activity from bootloader code? (it might corrupt some memory or registers and the main firmware doesn't undo this).
If you recall, I had sort of the same problem I reported here maybe a a month or more ago. I had that 128 GB Komputerbay card where I uses Eoscard.exe. Every time I cleared ML off the card and reformatted it, the bug was still on my camera. I eventually had to return the card to Amazon and I now I do not have the bug. I also asked a few times here and never got any answers about why I kept seeing a small partition on the card that would not allow me to delete that partition and format the whole card. Something made that partition when I used Eoscard and ML on it.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on October 26, 2013, 05:18:22 PM
"You can't remove the ML folders and files by using your computer delete function"

Even if I low level format the card from Windows?
Wow sticky!
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on October 26, 2013, 07:52:52 PM
"You can't remove the ML folders and files by using your computer delete function"

Even if I low level format the card from Windows?
Wow sticky!
Stefano
just follow the steps I have outlined on here before. I learned from the advice of other people on here and I think it is also listed in the user guide on how to do things with ML.
I don't know what you mean by "wow sticky"
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on October 26, 2013, 08:45:23 PM
Sorry for my English   :-[

I meant that ML, once installed, is sticky like a glue, you can't get rid of it easily.
Ciao
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 27, 2013, 08:35:24 PM
It only occurs when ML/TL is installed or running.

FALSE
I've was about to miss one of lifes most important moments at the hospital due the shutter bug. My card was totally overwriten with DD /RAW.  I thought I was ready to go with plain Canon firmware but no.. Shutter bug apperead! Luckily it was just to re-seat the lens but still missed few seconds of one important moment.

I did not have any ML files left on the memory card nor the special partitiontables . The memorycard was 100% clean and totally re-partitioned with new filesystem.

The only way I was able to get rid of shutter bug was to flash Canons firmware and do a reset of of all camera settings like I wrote here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8347.msg82215#msg82215

The question is is it enough to just disable the bootflag or to do a reset of the settings? If it's the bootflag or some other leftover from previous use of  ML.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 27, 2013, 09:12:38 PM
EVVK,
the bootflag is on the camera itself and not stored on the card . Did you have the bootflag off at the time?

ps. there is also a couple flags on the card set by EOSCard or whatever utility u may use but those are wiped by low level format. you did a low level format so the only thing htat should have been left is the camera bootflag set up by the installer aka .fir file
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: EVVK on October 27, 2013, 09:31:01 PM
Yes, the bootflag was left Enabled on the camera when this occured.

And yes, we could it low-level format, (as the camera does). I'm not so used to that term cause when talking about low-level formating on harddrives that is on a totally other level which allows settings sector sizes and stuff, the true term in my ears is even lower. ;) This is just about erasing the whole memorycard, partitions and filesystems. (including the flags that for example EOSCard sets)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on October 27, 2013, 10:06:51 PM
...
Unflagged "bootdisk" and "eos_develop" with EosCard 1.40
Turn on, no TL running, shutterbug present.
Remove lens, take photo, turn off, turn on, shutterbug!
Removed card.
Camera works perfectly without card.
...
If you look at a1ex's reply to that, it seems that bootloader being the culprit is the current hypothesis. in my opinion ur experience further confirms this. lets see what the devs think...
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on October 28, 2013, 11:19:57 AM
I dont think its anything to do with EosCard.
I only used EosCard once on a 512mb SD card that I used to test TL on my EOS M on FW 1.0.6. After that it was all done in camera. I never used EosCard at all when fw 2.0.2 came out and still have the shutter bug. Even on brand new cards.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 03, 2013, 10:19:06 PM
Malakai, I am just curious if you still have the shutter bug? I have not had it now for almost two weeks.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on November 04, 2013, 04:38:23 PM
Malakai, I am just curious if you still have the shutter bug? I have not had it now for almost two weeks.

I havent tried a recent build but still have an older build with the bug. Ive been using the 22mm for a while so didnt need the 18-55mm but its still in my camera bag just in case. I will have a go with a new build in a bit, see how I get on.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on November 04, 2013, 05:09:09 PM
Ok, i have some great news. Just tried the nov 01 build on a brand new sandisk 8gb card and have no shutter bug with the 18-55mm. However! I still get the shutter bug with the 32gb card I have in my camera with this build.
The only difference between the cards. The 32gb card did have eoscard run on it ages ago to allow tl to run on the older fw.

How can I format and remove all flags etc from the 32gb card that had eoscard run on it? This way I can check if its eoscard thats causing the problem.

Whoop. Possibly a step closer!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 04, 2013, 06:14:34 PM
Malakai, I apologize if you know any of these things already.
Put the camera in Picture Manual mode. Then do a ML firmware flash (make sure you have the latest fir file on the card) and at the end with the green text screen at the bottom it says how to remove the bootflag. Just change the camera mode from Picture to Movie. That removes the boot flag. Then do a normal full (not quick) format in your computer to make sure everything is gone and new. Don't do an EOScard. Then back in the camera with the new card, do a Canon Clear Settings and then a Canon format. Then go back to the computer and add the latest ML files/folders. Then back to the camera and in the Picture Manual mode do a firmware install. Reboot and you should be back to everything now and not have the bug. If you do have the bug, then try my way of another Canon format and "leave ML files on the card". Reboot.

I still think eoscard caused some problems for me with my first 128gb card. Just a guess.

HTH,
Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on November 04, 2013, 07:55:01 PM
No luck Gary. Now Ive had a good play with a new SD and a used SD could it be something to do with the EOS_DEVELOP and BOOTDISK flags on the SD cards. I have no bug with a brand new card and the bug with an older card, even after formatting etc.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 04, 2013, 09:18:19 PM
my first card i used eoscard and i never could get rid of the bug and some partition that was created. I luckily returned it within 30 days at Amazon. I have no problem now with my new 32gb sandisk 45mb/s write. you might have to also not use the problem card unless someone comes up with a way to clean it and use it again. At least you're getting some good results now.  :)

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: jerrykil on November 04, 2013, 11:15:58 PM
Ok, i have some great news. Just tried the nov 01 build on a brand new sandisk 8gb card and have no shutter bug with the 18-55mm. However! I still get the shutter bug with the 32gb card I have in my camera with this build.
The only difference between the cards. The 32gb card did have eoscard run on it ages ago to allow tl to run on the older fw.

How can I format and remove all flags etc from the 32gb card that had eoscard run on it? This way I can check if its eoscard thats causing the problem.

Whoop. Possibly a step closer!
low level format gets rid of the flags, if you wanna check there is a 'dd' command. are you on linux?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 06, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Hi everybody,

so, if the eoscard job really does something strange, apart from the developer and the bootable settings, is it still possible to run TL without even touching the eoscard utility?

If the answer is "yes", it seems to me that we can't keep the firmware flagged anymore on the camera, with the ability to swap memory cards with or without TL, because the camera will be looking for the autoexce.bin in both cases. (So, if it doesn't find it, the tight loop will be triggered)
Am I right, or I'm missing something?  :o

Thanks in advance
Stefano
Italy
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on November 06, 2013, 09:48:04 AM
I think you can get away without EOSCard if you have a disk <= 32GB. However, people have seen the bug in that scenario, and I who have been using 64GB cards have never experienced the bug (I'm running and old version of ML still now though)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 06, 2013, 10:23:50 AM
I just formatted a 4Gb card, that had been flagged by Eoscard. I re-checked it with eos card: no flags.
I installed the latest TL, and flagged the camera firmware.

TL loads correctly but... No way to take a picture. The shutter bug is always present. Now I want to check it with a card that has never seen the eos card before.
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 06, 2013, 11:48:17 AM
After a further investigation, I was able to get rid of the shutterbug, only by removing the lens. After that I didn't have any shutter bug, but the camera with the nov. 5 release keeps hanging when I switch to movie mode.
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on November 06, 2013, 12:53:15 PM
@1%

Does the bootflag running under firmware update do the exact same change/flag to SD cards as eoscard?

It appears the shutter bug may have something to do with the SD card.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 06, 2013, 03:19:43 PM
Hi everybody,

so, if the eoscard job really does something strange, apart from the developer and the bootable settings, is it still possible to run TL without even touching the eoscard utility?

If the answer is "yes", it seems to me that we can't keep the firmware flagged anymore on the camera, with the ability to swap memory cards with or without TL, because the camera will be looking for the autoexce.bin in both cases. (So, if it doesn't find it, the tight loop will be triggered)
Am I right, or I'm missing something?  :o

Thanks in advance
Stefano
Italy
I have a new 32 gb card without using eoscard and i now do not have the bug. I used to have a 128gb card with eoscard used on it and i had a lot of problems with the bug. But, it could be from some other reason with having many variables.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 07, 2013, 04:16:02 PM
Hi guys,

I've found a reliable way to trigger the shutter bug. For me it's working 100% of the times.
I own the 11-22 wideangle.
This lens has a retracted and an extended position, this one is mandatory to take pictures.

If I turn the M on with the lens in the extended position, there's always the shutter bug; then I have three options to get rid of the problem :
1 retract and extend the lens, with the camera turned on.
2 force a sensor cleaning. (As I wrote in a previous post)
3 detach and reattach the lens. (Well known).

It doesn't sound strange to retract the lens, as it probably resets its power, but it's strange (to me) that everytime I turn on the camera  with the lens extended the bug is there, even if before the camera worked perfectly.
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 07, 2013, 04:25:45 PM
The 22mm extends and retracts, though no shutter bug.  The 18-55 doesn't extend/retract (that I can see).  My question is, doesn't the camera automatically retract the lens when you turn it off.  How can you turn the camera on with it extended?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 07, 2013, 04:59:12 PM
The 11-22 looks almost identical to the 18-55.

Have a look HERE (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-efm-11-22-4-5p6-is-stm/2)

You can keep it extended if you prefer, like I do, to have the camera always ready.

Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 07, 2013, 05:10:11 PM
I have the 18-55.  I think you mean zoomed out/in?  That would be interesting.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on November 07, 2013, 05:20:06 PM
Quote
Does the bootflag running under firmware update do the exact same change/flag to SD cards as eoscard?

I says it does, but only on install.

How many with the shutter bug never used usb?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 07, 2013, 05:40:30 PM
Zooming in - out changes nothing in my experience. The 11-22 has a positional electric switch, in facts if you turn the camera on with the lens retracted, no focusing is possible, and a message appears telling that you must extend the lens  to take pics.

I low level formatted a sd card, then I checked the sd with eos card; no bootable and developers flags.
 Then I installed TL.
When I checked it with eoscard, bootable and developers were flagged.

I've never used usb with TL installed, but the bug is present, always, if I turn on the camera with the lens "out".

Hope it helps
STefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on November 08, 2013, 10:22:06 AM
I says it does, but only on install.

How many with the shutter bug never used usb?

I haven't experienced the shutter bug, but have used USB to take photos off the camera. I have experienced issues with that though, where the camera doesn't go into storage mode, locks and needs to have a battery pull. Interestingly, rebooting my Windows computer and reattaching the USB cable gets rid of the lock up and then the USB storage mode correctly.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on November 08, 2013, 03:33:07 PM
I have been thinking about this bug. Why some have it and some dont. I am swayed to think its something to do with the SD card. Looking at the variables. The camera body is virtually the same between users, so we should see the same results across all EOS M bodies. The same applies for the lenses. However the version of TL we use can be different per user. However most of us test for the bug using the same version. Some folk having the bug and some not having the bug. The one big variable is the SD cards we are using. Ill put money on it that if we all did a poll most of us would be using different cards.

Now, in the light of the fact that I have had this bug from day one and no version of TL or ML has managed to stop it happening. I used a brand new 8gb sandisk card straight from the packet and blam. Bug is non existent. I would say that after all the testing the bug lies with something to do with the SD card. If you experience the bug with either the 18-55 or the 11-22 try a different SD card with the same build. See if the bug goes away.


on a side note i just spotted thi from here (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-efm-11-22-4-5p6-is-stm/2) about the 11-22mm

Quote
With its existing firmware the EOS M can't recognise when the lens is in its retracted position, and will allow the shutter to release. Canon recommends updating the firmware to the co-announced Version 2.0.0 for full compatibility, which as a bonus promises faster autofocus with all lenses.

I know it has nothing to do with the bug but its an interesting fact that they had to fix something related to shutter release.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 08, 2013, 03:49:23 PM
I had that theory a while ago! ;)  My "speculation" is that you won't have the shutter bug if you

1. Use the 95MBS Sandisk card
2. DO NOT use USB
3. If you go into photo mode, remember to TURN OFF your 24FPS, or whatever, video mode setting.

I was hoping someone might have an answer the guy's question about time-lapse shooting in the main thread.  I haven't done it in a while, but I agree with him, would be an awesome camera to get back into it with!
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on November 08, 2013, 03:55:23 PM
The ETTR + intervalometer might be broken globally. I tried it on 7D and it didn't work either. I noticed another problem with it too, if dual ISO is on it gets bright and dark over and over on EOSM.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 08, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
@Maxotics

"2. DO NOT use USB"

I've never used USB with TL installed.
(But I'm going to try..)

"3. If you go into photo mode, remember to TURN OFF your 24FPS, or whatever, video mode setting."

I've never used 24FPS, as we use PAL in Europe which is 25fps. The only thing I changed was fps ovverride to record time lapses, great function, but then I always set it to off; in my experience a "clean" setup, after a fresh install, doesn't stop the bug from occurring.

I tried three different memory cards, one sd and three micro sd with adapter. Bug showed up in the same way.
I've just finished testing  with another SD, never used before.
PC format of the card>Canon format> download and copy latest TL>On camera flag to make bootable>extended lens>turn on> BUG present.

What is really interesting imho, is the repeatability of the bug with the lens position of the 11-22 at startup.

Lens extended>turn on>bug ON (100%), retract> extend> bug OFF.
Lens retracted>turn on> extend> bug OFF.

Lens extended>remove SD>turn on>bug OFF(100%)

When I bought the M it had the old firmware, but the 11-22 worked perfectly, even if they updated the firmware also to increase the 11-22 compatibility. I didn't have any issue, apart from the slower AF.

Investigation continues.
Ciao to everybody
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 08, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Hi Stefano, what speed is your best SD card?  Thanks!

Also, it's not about 24fps, specifically, it's about having the FPS override set to anything but 30fps in photo mode.

BTW, have you shot any raw video with that lens.  At 1280x720 crop mode it would be effective 44mm (approx) and should look really nice.  They don't sell that lens here in the U.S.  :-[
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 08, 2013, 05:16:31 PM
My fastest card is a Class 10 branded Mustang.

Btw, Maxotics, I've just tried the M with the USB, basically I tried every function. Just like before.
If I turn the camera on with the lens out BUG present.

If I keep FPS override to OFF is ok, or am I to set it to a determined value?

Ciao from Italy

Stefano  :)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 08, 2013, 05:19:18 PM
You really want UHS 1, writing at least 40MBS (that's 40 megaBYTES), for RAW video at any rate. 

Yes, you just want FPS override OFF.  Otherwise the screen goes crazy in my experience.

It's confusing because many cards say 40mbs, which is BITS, and are really =40/8, or 5 MBS. 

None of this is to say you're not right about the lens!  Few have it unfortunately.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 08, 2013, 05:23:51 PM
The 11-22 it's not currently sold in the US, pity because it's razor sharp 

A class 10 is as fast as the type you're talking about, only the bus is different.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 08, 2013, 05:25:23 PM
It's not currently sold in the US, pity because it's razor sharp

What's REALLY nice about it, for RAW video, is it has image stabilization.  And in crop mode you risk very little moire or aliasing issues.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Stefano on November 08, 2013, 05:46:40 PM
Try this:

BUG present, turn dial to movie mode, start recording.
Now, without stopping recording, turn the dial to photo mode. Now you should be able to take pics.  :o
Stefano
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on November 08, 2013, 05:49:44 PM
Quote
Yes, you just want FPS override OFF

You'll only be able to do crop mode that way. If it screws up hit play and it should reset itself.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 08, 2013, 09:23:22 PM
I have been thinking about this bug. Why some have it and some dont. I am swayed to think its something to do with the SD card. Looking at the variables. The camera body is virtually the same between users, so we should see the same results across all EOS M bodies. The same applies for the lenses. However the version of TL we use can be different per user. However most of us test for the bug using the same version. Some folk having the bug and some not having the bug. The one big variable is the SD cards we are using. Ill put money on it that if we all did a poll most of us would be using different cards.
There are more variables. The people using it and the way they do things when installing ML and using the camera. Also, many variables as to what settings they have in "all" menus, Canon and ML. You never know when something else can have an effect. Like the USB problems I reported and 1% confirmed is somehow related.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 08, 2013, 09:25:18 PM
The 11-22 it's not currently sold in the US, pity because it's razor sharp 

A class 10 is as fast as the type you're talking about, only the bus is different.
In the USA, we do have some ability to buy it from retailers in Canada and some Asian people have it for sale on Ebay.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 08, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
You really want UHS 1, writing at least 40MBS (that's 40 megaBYTES), for RAW video at any rate. 

Yes, you just want FPS override OFF.  Otherwise the screen goes crazy in my experience.

It's confusing because many cards say 40mbs, which is BITS, and are really =40/8, or 5 MBS. 

None of this is to say you're not right about the lens!  Few have it unfortunately.
I have not had any screen craziness using FPS override settings.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 08, 2013, 09:29:52 PM
I haven't experienced the shutter bug, but have used USB to take photos off the camera. I have experienced issues with that though, where the camera doesn't go into storage mode, locks and needs to have a battery pull. Interestingly, rebooting my Windows computer and reattaching the USB cable gets rid of the lock up and then the USB storage mode correctly.
When you use USB, do you pull the plug out of the camera and still use the camera? Even it you leave it plugged in, when you try to shut the camera off, does it then hang on the Sensor Cleaning display and never shut off until you pull the battery? That is what happens to me all the time.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on November 08, 2013, 09:35:48 PM
The 22mm extends and retracts, though no shutter bug.  The 18-55 doesn't extend/retract (that I can see).  My question is, doesn't the camera automatically retract the lens when you turn it off.  How can you turn the camera on with it extended?
Max. how do you extend and retract the 22mm? It is a fixed lens. I think he means to say zoomed in and out.

Gary
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 08, 2013, 09:56:53 PM
Max. how do you extend and retract the 22mm? It is a fixed lens. I think he means to say zoomed in and out.

Gary

The 22mm actually extends out a few millimeters when you turn the camera on, and retracts when you turn it off.  I noticed this when I put on the .20 adapter (to get a lower focal length for crop mode).  If you look at the center part of the lens when you turn the camera on/off you'll see it too!  The 18-55mm does not do this.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: 1% on November 08, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
Quote
I have not had any screen craziness using FPS override settings.

It can misconfigure if it doesn't detect you've switched modes, when you press play it resets and checks what mode its in again.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: maxotics on November 09, 2013, 02:39:24 AM
delete
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: WiGgLr on November 09, 2013, 10:39:26 AM
When you use USB, do you pull the plug out of the camera and still use the camera? Even it you leave it plugged in, when you try to shut the camera off, does it then hang on the Sensor Cleaning display and never shut off until you pull the battery? That is what happens to me all the time.

Gary

Yup, exactly that. A proper reboot of my PC made the issue go away though, at least the last time I tried it. (using windows 8.1 command  "shutdown /r /t 0" to perform a full kernel restart rather than the hybrid hibernation reboot they added in win8)
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: santeri on January 04, 2014, 09:49:09 PM
Any news regarding the issue? Since there's been no replies for a good while I assume not, but as an EOS M owner myself too, I'd of course like to see this get solved. I would love to have focus peaking!

It seems weird that the bug appears also when TL is not loaded but the loader is used to fire up canon's code. The thing that with the 11-22mm objective fully extended always manifests the problem and fully retracted (storage position) doesn't, tells it very likely has something to do with the lens initialization and it might be very sensitive to timing at the first power on of the camera. I assume with the 11-22mm it's almost the same there was no lens installed if it's retracted.

How much does the configuration with minimal autoexec.bin add to the startup time? How long does it take from the power-on to the jump to canon code with TL versus without TL?

Could it be just that Canon's code works with pure chance, the code is just magically waiting at the correct location / done some required initializations if only clean Canon firmware is used? When TL adds a bit of code to the startup, the lens has done it's own stuff before Canon's code reaches some point it should've been at a few milliseconds before and thus won't work.

I might possibly find the answer to the next question by searching a bit, but I'm just going to ask.. Is the power to the objective hardwired or can it be controlled from the software? Could the objective power on command (or some other thing that tells the lens it is attached) be removed from the startup of Canon firmware and make TL command it after everything else has loaded properly?


Edit: Just an idea, if the above would be true, it could mean that with clean firmware, no TL, the bug could be reproduced by having the lens a bit loose, powering on, and very quickly (almost simultaneously) turning the lens so it gets contact. Could be almost impossible to get the timing right of course..
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on January 06, 2014, 11:26:51 AM
Any news regarding the issue? Since there's been no replies for a good while I assume not, but as an EOS M owner myself too, I'd of course like to see this get solved. I would love to have focus peaking!

It seems weird that the bug appears also when TL is not loaded but the loader is used to fire up canon's code. The thing that with the 11-22mm objective fully extended always manifests the problem and fully retracted (storage position) doesn't, tells it very likely has something to do with the lens initialization and it might be very sensitive to timing at the first power on of the camera. I assume with the 11-22mm it's almost the same there was no lens installed if it's retracted.

How much does the configuration with minimal autoexec.bin add to the startup time? How long does it take from the power-on to the jump to canon code with TL versus without TL?

Could it be just that Canon's code works with pure chance, the code is just magically waiting at the correct location / done some required initializations if only clean Canon firmware is used? When TL adds a bit of code to the startup, the lens has done it's own stuff before Canon's code reaches some point it should've been at a few milliseconds before and thus won't work.

I might possibly find the answer to the next question by searching a bit, but I'm just going to ask.. Is the power to the objective hardwired or can it be controlled from the software? Could the objective power on command (or some other thing that tells the lens it is attached) be removed from the startup of Canon firmware and make TL command it after everything else has loaded properly?


Edit: Just an idea, if the above would be true, it could mean that with clean firmware, no TL, the bug could be reproduced by having the lens a bit loose, powering on, and very quickly (almost simultaneously) turning the lens so it gets contact. Could be almost impossible to get the timing right of course..

From testing it appears the bug is more to do with the SD Card.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: santeri on January 06, 2014, 02:52:07 PM
From testing it appears the bug is more to do with the SD Card.
The cases seemed mostly random, I didn't understand the issues with SD's. The only test that I see reproducing it every time in this thread so far is the 11-22mm objective. I don't own one, but if that is true, it would be easier to debug even if the problem had nothing to do with the objective but it just makes it happen.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: Malakai on January 06, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
I can repeat the bug over and over on one SD card with both IS lenses but there is no bug for either lens when I use a different SD card. I switched to using the SD card without the bug even though its just a 8gb card.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: santeri on January 06, 2014, 03:47:33 PM
Oh, okay. That just about nullifies everything I thought then, it can't be a timing issue related to the objective. If it was some SD cards being slow to start up or something, would guess the bug would appear with clean firmware then too and it clearly doesn't.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on January 07, 2014, 01:35:27 PM
The cases seemed mostly random, I didn't understand the issues with SD's. The only test that I see reproducing it every time in this thread so far is the 11-22mm objective. I don't own one, but if that is true, it would be easier to debug even if the problem had nothing to do with the objective but it just makes it happen.
it was mostly the 18-55 efm lens. But I also had it happen on the kit 22mm efm at one point. i now just run the canon reformat in camera with keeping the ML  files and the shutterbug goes away for me. I get the bug back when I install the ML nightly builds instead of the TL builds. But that reformat gets rid of it.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: ricsi on January 12, 2014, 03:26:20 PM
I am a completely new user.
Bought my EOS M 2 days ago.
Installed Magic Lantern nightly from the 11th of january.
The bug bit me quit early!

So I now have it. As usual twisting the lens cures it until the next boot cycle.
I have tried with 2 SD Cards A-Data and fake no-name.
Both show the same behaviour.

Interestingly when I twist the lens, it WILL make a photo!
So it seems as if it was waiting for something, breaking the contact with the lens-lines clears that, and it snaps a photo, and starts working.
Also taking a video, and WHILE the video is recording, switch the dial to photo will work!

I have never attache the USB cable, so no dependence to this.

PS: I am a new to ML, so I downloaded the nightly and copied it over.
There was no FIR file in the EOSM 2.02 archive, so I googled it and found a 41KB file that seems to work. (Why is it not in the nightly archive?)
Then it complained about ml/data/fonts.dat not being readable, so I DL ML stabel 2.3 and copied it over, then added eosm_202.fir + nightly files.
Seems to work OK now, except for the shutter bug.
Did I do something wrong?

Now to the task of getting to know the EOS M canon FW + ML extensions ;)

Thanx for your hard work, and if I can contribute any info on this bug I will, just ask what you need.

edit: 18-55 EF-M Zoom lense used.

PS: Any special support for PQI Aircard/Transcend WiFi SD??
I like those ... being root on your own SD card is somehow nice!

edit2: Latest 2 nightlies are broken and could not be compiled pn eos m.
Title: Questions for those who have (had) the bug
Post by: scottfrey on March 10, 2014, 10:13:03 PM
My EOS-M arrives tomorrow, so I am getting ready. In preparation, I have have read through this and the entire 96 pages of the Tragic Lantern for EOS M thread. I am in no way a programmer, but I am a professional troubleshooter (i.e. computer consultant).

What jumps out at me from this thread is that there is no good data on the problem. There seems to be a trend that points to the biggest culprit being the SD card, with some other variables contributing (I love multiple trigger-point problems). What don't have is a statistically significant dataset.

I have two questions for those who have encountered the bug.

1) What brand and model cards have been tied to the bug?

2) Did you use EOScard or Macboot to set the flags?  (which would depend on Mac or PC or Virtual Machine) Are there other choices?

There are vast differences between brands of cards, plus the industry is awash with counterfeiting. There could be a significant difference in how cards behave and between read speeds.

EOScard or Macboot (or both) could have a bug or simply a difference in how they set the flags. I know from experience that there are places that can be written to on a drive that reformatting will not touch.

It would be helpful to narrow down or eliminate this variable (say, the problem goes away with Sandisk Extreme cards, for example)

I will be using a 16GB Sandisk Extreme 45MB/sec card (that came with my 6D). I'll report back

(edited for typos)
Title: Re: Questions for those who have (had) the bug
Post by: gary2013 on March 11, 2014, 02:45:42 AM
My EOS-M arrives tomorrow, so I am getting ready. In preparation, I have have read through this and the entire 96 pages of the Tragic Lantern for EOS M thread. I am in no way a programmer, but I am a professional troubleshooter (i.e. computer consultant).

What jumps out at me from this thread is that there is no good data on the problem. There seems to be a trend that points to the biggest culprit being the SD card, with some other variables contributing (I love multiple trigger-point problems). What don't have is a statistically significant dataset.

I have two questions for those who have encountered the bug.

1) What brand and model cards have been tied to the bug?

2) Did you use EOScard or Macboot to set the flags?  (which would depend on Mac or PC or Virtual Machine) Are there other choices?

There are vast differences between brands of cards, plus the industry is awash with counterfeiting. There could be a significant difference in how cards behave and between read speeds.

EOScard or Macboot (or both) could have a bug or simply a difference in how they set the flags. I know from experience that there are places that can be written to on a drive that reformatting will not touch.

It would be helpful to narrow down or eliminate this variable (say, the problem goes away with Sandisk Extreme cards, for example)

I will be using a 16GB Sandisk Extreme 45MB/sec card (that came with my 6D). I'll report back

(edited for typos)
There is more than just one thread for EOS-M/TL. There is one just for the shutterbug and another one for the pink dot removal/PDR. Possibly more, but I don't remember at the moment. The shutterbug is not related to certain SDcards. It was random. That was the problem, it was all very random based and hard to nail down to a final fix. I have not seen any talk about the shutterbug for quite awhile. It is for sure related to the EFM STB lenses. As you probably read in all the posts, there are two ways to get rid of the shutterbug, but only for that session. When you reboot, it has reappeared and requires another lens twist or quick power off/on. My third way makes it go away all the time, but I lose the ability to use the EXFAT format. I do the internal Canon reformat/keep ML files and that formats it again back to FAT32. But it gets rid of the shutterbug for me. I have used Komputerbay 128GB card and I now use a Sandisk 32 GB/45 mb/s write card. I have seen on here other people using the Komputerbay cards. I have used eoscard and not used eoscard and it seems to not make a difference for me. I don't know for sure.

I think the shutterbug has something to do with ML/TL when it boots and how it talks to the lens since a lens twist off/on resets something and the bug goes away. Same for the quick power off/on. You do that before that LED flashes and the bug goes away. Something in ML/TL is happening at that time causing the bug. I am not sure why my way of using the Canon reformat gets rid of it. 
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: scottfrey on March 11, 2014, 05:48:32 PM
Malakai summed it up very nicely:
Quote
I have been thinking about this bug. Why some have it and some dont. I am swayed to think its something to do with the SD card. Looking at the variables. The camera body is virtually the same between users, so we should see the same results across all EOS M bodies. The same applies for the lenses. However the version of TL we use can be different per user. However most of us test for the bug using the same version. Some folk having the bug and some not having the bug. The one big variable is the SD cards we are using. Ill put money on it that if we all did a poll most of us would be using different cards.

Now, in the light of the fact that I have had this bug from day one and no version of TL or ML has managed to stop it happening. I used a brand new 8gb sandisk card straight from the packet and blam. Bug is non existent. I would say that after all the testing the bug lies with something to do with the SD card. If you experience the bug with either the 18-55 or the 11-22 try a different SD card with the same build. See if the bug goes away.

Admittedly, I have only the reports in this thread to go on, but from reading through this I have to respectfully disagree that "The shutterbug is not related to certain SDcards.", unless you have more data points to offer than I can find here (and you might).

For example, it could have to do with the timing of reading TL from the card at load time. When you format the card in camera, it may copy the files in a linear fashion (whereas your computer may not unless you copy one file at a time) and thus you have a repeatable read time. Difference cards have different read speeds. The same card written to different ways has different effective read speed. I believe one user had the bug without even having TL on the card, but i had previously been on the card (the card had the flags set, which may cause the camera to change it's timing by searching for autoexec.bin). Timig caused bugs are a bitch, and the SD read speed is the only real variable we can effect here.

Quote
I think the shutterbug has something to do with ML/TL when it boots and how it talks to the lens since a lens twist off/on resets something and the bug goes away.

Which could easily be the timing of when the firmware lodes and when it first reads the lens.

I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong, I'm offering an observation as a fresh set of eyes. The data I am suggesting be collected may reveal a pattern
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: a1ex on March 15, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
@Malakai (or anyone else who can reproduce the bug consistently with the minimal autoexec (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/EOS-M/minimal/autoexec.bin) or the minimal FIR (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/EOS-M/minimal/minimal.fir)):

Can you do a little table with the bug status in the following conditions?

Camera bootflag not set, card bootflag not set, boot from a formatted card => OK (running Canon firmware)
Camera bootflag not set, card bootflag not set, run minimal FIR => ?

Camera bootflag set, card bootflag not set, boot from a formatted card => ?
Camera bootflag set, card bootflag not set, run minimal FIR => ?

Camera bootflag set, card bootflag set, card without autoexec.bin present => lockup?
Camera bootflag set, card bootflag set, run minimal autoexec => bug present (confirmed by previous posts, but only for some users)
Camera bootflag set, card bootflag set, run minimal autoexec followed by minimal FIR => bug present, right? (just double-checking)

The answers to the two middle questions will be essential hints in narrowing down the issue.

Notes:
- to check the card bootflags, use EosCard
- to enable the camera bootflag, use the installation FIR and turn the mode dial until you get green screen
- to disable the camera bootflag, use the installation FIR and turn the mode dial until you get white screen
- the installation FIR might also change the card bootflags, so double-check with EosCard after running this FIR
- if you can't reproduce the bug consistently with the minimal binaries, do a few test runs (around 50) and write down the probability of getting the bug
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on March 15, 2014, 02:57:06 PM
I do not recall that poll ever being taken. Most of us just replied with what we have tried for cards. If someone can prove it is the cards, then I think it is important to have many different people reproduce this fix. I can reproduce the problem right now just by reinstalling the fir file. I have used a Komputerbay 128GB, I think it was a 60 mb/s write. That was my first card. Then I bought a Sandisk 32 GB, 45 mbs write. I also have a Micro Center 32 GB 15 mbs card. None of them got rid of the bug.  I did try the minimal autoexec that Alex asked me to try/test back when, I think, Malakai said he had no bug with that minimal version. I reported that the bug still showed up.

I hope someone does come up with a real fix that satisfies all lenses (and cards) on the M. And, as an afterthought, make sure you try using the USB cable with your M to your computer at least once with installing some picture styles or/and transferring files to the computer hard drive. I think someone said they had no shutterbug and they never used the USB. Max said he never used the USB but also had the bug. Go figure. 1% and I had many discussions about the USB also causing the camera to hang and require a battery pull and he said he thinks that the USB problem is maybe somehow also causing the shutterbug or they are tied to some common thing. Nothing was ever resolved on those problems or theories.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on March 15, 2014, 03:10:23 PM
For example, it could have to do with the timing of reading TL from the card at load time. When you format the card in camera, it may copy the files in a linear fashion (whereas your computer may not unless you copy one file at a time) and thus you have a repeatable read time. Difference cards have different read speeds. The same card written to different ways has different effective read speed. I believe one user had the bug without even having TL on the card, but i had previously been on the card (the card had the flags set, which may cause the camera to change it's timing by searching for autoexec.bin). Timig caused bugs are a bitch, and the SD read speed is the only real variable we can effect here.

Which could easily be the timing of when the firmware lodes and when it first reads the lens.
Then why can I get rid of the bug just by performing another Canon format in camera keeping the ML files installed? Logic tells me the ML fir is doing something and the Canon reformat is fixing what was changed by ML. I don't think it is the read speed cus my Sandisk is above the average 37mb/s (some round it off at 40 mb/s write) the M camera can handle with read/write to any card. My card is 45 mb/s read and write, more than what the M can use.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: nanomad on March 15, 2014, 04:28:16 PM
Gary, quick question....do you run the .fir every time you change a nightly build?
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on March 15, 2014, 05:42:46 PM
Gary, quick question....do you run the .fir every time you change a nightly build?
no, if i did i would have to reformat every night to get rid of the shutterbug. I sometimes (not very often) try and do a full install from scratch.
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: nanomad on March 16, 2014, 01:22:04 AM
Ok one more question. When you do a reinstall, do you also disable any of the bootflags before? Camera or card or both

Lastly, can you do the tests suggested by Alex? They would help tremendously
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: gary2013 on March 16, 2014, 02:14:41 AM
Ok one more question. When you do a reinstall, do you also disable any of the bootflags before? Camera or card or both

Lastly, can you do the tests suggested by Alex? They would help tremendously
I can try to do the tests. where do I get the minimal fir and minimal autoexc files? what do you or Alex suggest I do for starting out with my current sandisk 32gb card that has the latest TL and I did not use eoscard on it? I would guess a normal windows 7 format to clear it all? Anything else I need to do to start??
 
Title: Re: EOS M Alpha shutter-bug discussion
Post by: nanomad on March 19, 2014, 08:02:49 PM
They have been posted by Alex a few posts back