Hi - been a while since I posted here, but I guess you may be just slightly interested in what's about to happen to Adobe Media Encoder and Premiere Pro.
CinemaDNG has been a little on the back burner at Adobe for a while now, so it's frustrating pulling the DNG frames from ML raw video into some of the applications (After Effects is hardly the best choice for quick transcodes and fast edits!). With the arrival of SpeedGrade there was a new drive to support digital cinema workflows, and today I can finally announce that in the free updates to CC due to drop mid-October, Premiere Pro and Adobe Media Encoder will be able to read CinemaDNG frame sequences natively. Media Encoder CC will be able to transcode uncompressed CinemaDNG sequences to any format you want with full hardware acceleration, plus the ability to apply Lumetri color grading and BITC to the footage as you go - no longer any need to open After Effects or Premiere Pro to turn a DNG frame sequence into a video file. Premiere Pro will also be able to open CinemaDNG frame sequences.
I know it's not exactly support for MLV, but I'm still pushing for that ;)
There's a mountain of other improvements, full info at http://acrobatninja.com/2013/09/adobe-new-video-features.html
Couldn't be better news. I just purchased the CC on monthly subscription today!
hi great news.
when will it be available? release date?
greets. sw
The updates will push to CC subscribers mid-October. I can't give the exact date as it's still in flux.
fantastic - adobe has reacted on the actual changes - thats great.
We highly appreciate the effort Adobe does. This sounds really good, thanks for letting us know.
cs5.5 had a cinemaDNG importer plugin.
tried it on both cs6 and 5.5.
CDNG sequences i imported did not playback in realtime and that's without any effects layers.
so i wont be excited until the update is out and tested.
here's hoping this update will do a better job of crunching CDNG sequences.
it would be of great benefit. ;D
2600k @ 4.9ghz
32GB 1600mhz ram.
I hardly believe, that "this" alpha-beta-importer would be awaken again. So, beside CDNG there are some more rawlike-Codecs supported. Yes, i think, its a better one :D
regards chmee
Quote from: chmee on September 09, 2013, 11:21:04 PM
I hardly believe, that "this" alpha-beta-importer would be awaken again. So, beside CDNG there are some more rawlike-Codecs supported. Yes, i think, its a better one :D
regards chmee
hi chmee, off-topic question, have you thought about adding options to your raw2cndg for normal CDNG, Lossless, and Lossy?
i like your utility the best.
thanks!
[ot] after deciding to invest the small amount of time i got actually into mlv - but multithreading and compression are on the list for raw2cdng, yes. after that, i hope, i have written this mlv-converter[/ot]
regards
wonderful!
you rock, brother!
keep up the great work!
Quote from: chmee on September 09, 2013, 11:30:49 PM
[ot] after deciding to invest the small amount of time i got actually into mlv - but multithreading and compression are on the list for raw2cdng, yes. after that, i hope, i have written this mlv-converter[/ot]
regards
Hi Chmee: Is there a mlv2cdng convertor yet?
not from my side yet - i started to cope with the new format, i want to solve the convertion in a elegant way. the first approaches were little bit chaotic, because of the random order of the blocks.
actual there is the reference implementation (mlv to raw) and one converter written by gnarr
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7802.0
regards chmee
DFM,
Will you be able to open dng files from premier and have access to adobe camera raw to grade? Or would you still need to take them into after effects?
Unlike with a regular image sequence, a CinemaDNG sequence is "undeveloped" so its properties must still be defined by the ACR engine and you can adjust it however you want. Remember that the timeline in Premiere Pro is always native 32-bit floating point so a luma curve effect in Pr would have the identical result as a tone curve in ACR. Can't show you the workflow yet, it's not finished ;)
Another thing for RAW shooters on non-5D bodies who need to enlarge their frames to HD is detail-preserving upscale in AE: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-at-ibc-2013/after-effects-cc-detailpreserving-upscale/
In the update a dynamic link will be provided between speedgrade and premiere so grading can be an ongoing process like editing clips in AE today linked in premiere.
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-at-ibc-2013/adobe-creative-cloud-october-2013-release-whats-new-in-video/
Quote from: chmee on September 10, 2013, 10:13:45 AM
not from my side yet - i started to cope with the new format, i want to solve the convertion in a elegant way. the first approaches were little bit chaotic, because of the random order of the blocks.
just use the .idx files mlv_dump can create for you.
or just copy-paste the mlv code that creates an .idx.
so you dont have random order and you dont even have to calculate the next blocks' position, but just use the list of offsets and files where you have to read from.
@g3gg0 :D yeah thanks, but right now i had no time to get in more touch with the mlv-thing - in just about 3 weeks i'm thru the jobs :) and then..
Beyond excited for these updates! Can't wait to see what else Adobe will have in store!
Does anyone know when the update is actually gonna be released?
I think in October, 15 ?
Quote from: vikado on September 09, 2013, 11:16:29 PM
cs5.5 had a cinemaDNG importer plugin.
tried it on both cs6 and 5.5.
CDNG sequences i imported did not playback in realtime and that's without any effects layers.
so i wont be excited until the update is out and tested.
here's hoping this update will do a better job of crunching CDNG sequences.
it would be of great benefit. ;D
2600k @ 4.9ghz
32GB 1600mhz ram.
Is that rig of yours under water?
Quote from: xNiNELiVES on September 24, 2013, 03:46:25 AM
Is that rig of yours under water?
i read somewhere that certain stock of the 2600k die can reach 4.8-4.9ghz. unfortunately its only a small portion of that stock.
iirc, there are numbers on the die itself to tell if you can reach 4.8+ghz.
im using a Thermalright Silver Arrow cooler.
Hmnnn, I wonder if the update is limited to just Cinema DNG's, or would include DNG's.
So it will only be aviable to the cloud members??
How can i get it if i am not in the cloud? thought like a normal update... Looks like it would only be aviable for cc, i am using cs6, any ideas?
Heheheh cloud subscribers... sorry for your loss adobe... maybe next time don't force everyone into subscriptions :)
Quote from: dude on October 11, 2013, 03:45:47 PM
So it will only be aviable to the cloud members??
How can i get it if i am not in the cloud? thought like a normal update... Looks like it would only be aviable for cc, i am using cs6, any ideas?
It's a (major) upgrade to Premiere CC, so you need to be subscribed to get the update. It's not compatible with CS6.
that s a f****!!!
Quote from: painya on October 05, 2013, 10:58:43 PM
Hmnnn, I wonder if the update is limited to just Cinema DNG's, or would include DNG's.
CinemaDNG is a definition of how to wrap a series of still frames into a container that can be read as a video clip - it's not a codec. Each frame can be a DNG file or a TIFF (though the latter is vanishingly rare). The 'wrapper' can either be an MXF structure or just a plain old folder on disc with sequentially-named files in it. The DNGs used for each frame are no different to the ones you'd get from still photography, and Premiere's Mercury Playback Engine doesn't care if you're opening one image file as a still, or a sequence of them as a clip.
Great news. Cant wait for these updates to start rolling
I can't wait to give it a try!
Two quickies:
Would be able to proxy the cinemaDNG for editing?
When are you guys rolling it out?!?! :D
cheers
:/ October 15th and not out. Checked the adobe site and no news of when it will be out. Any ideas of when?
I'm quite disappointed that this is not released for CS6. I bought Production Premium Suite and now I wont even get any updates for it.
Quite a slap in the face if you ask me.
Here is a video showing off the features of PP 7.1. He is saying late October
https://vimeo.com/76726030
Quote from: Kharak on October 16, 2013, 11:26:07 AM
I'm quite disappointed that this is not released for CS6. I bought Production Premium Suite and now I wont even get any updates for it.
Quite a slap in the face if you ask me.
They did release some updates for CS6, but you can't expect Adobe to keep adding new features to old versions for free. I think Adobe CC is a pretty good deal and so far I'm pretty happy with the service.
Quote from: Midphase on October 16, 2013, 08:10:24 PM
They did release some updates for CS6, but you can't expect Adobe to keep adding new features to old versions for free. I think Adobe CC is a pretty good deal and so far I'm pretty happy with the service.
CS6 really ain't that old, ye I understand features, but support for different files and such.. This adobe train is going waay to fast for my liking. And besides, I like owning my own stuff, not renting it. :)
then.. the end of October arrived and no update yet :(
Went to an Adobe presentation last night (there's another one today here in L.A.) and the guy who was actually quite candid about the information said that it should be here within a week. He showed the latest versions and showcased the new changes, particularly the new dynamic linking between Premiere and Speedgrade.
Anyhoo, October still goes on for two more days... ;D
Do you think adobe will make the cutoff?
The Adobe guy said the update is essentially ready, and would be out within a week at most.
But within a week is not end oct..?
update is out there!
why is it that DNG are pink in CC 7.1???
I just install the New Adobe update for Premiere Pro on my MacPro
And yes there support for cdng's, there is a Pink Cast Over
The whole image . :(
But i imported a AE project i saved with cdng's and that displays normal
Without any Pink cast. That's Strange!
Or if you import a premiere pro project in to speed grade same thing pink cast
With the cdng's.
I make a screen capture, upload it later today.
Already posted that here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg81598#msg81598
getting pink cast as well.
near realtime playback to boot.
anyway to generate proxies after its loaded into premiere?
or vice versa?
replace proxies with dng sequences?
edit:
nevermind, figured it out.
if you right click on the clip in the project window and choose "replace footage". a pop up window will appear and go to the dng sequence folder of your choosing and pick the very first frame.
it will replace proxies or vice versa. i wonder if there's a batch switch, im thinking exporting to AE is much quicker.
Looks like Camera Raw is not included in Premiere CC like it is in After Effects :( There is no way to debayre it?
Getting pink frames here as well. Most of my stuff is converted in RAW Magic, anyone using RAW2CDNG or one of the other converters with different results?
I really hope Adobe will address this. The performance is great, pink color cast excepted.
i can confirm once you replace proxies on your project settings in premiere with the dng sequence, you can export an EDL to resolve.
They're out!
Hi All :)
Here a short Video Screen capture, I take a look at the pink cast problem with CDNG's
Update:
Use Auto levels (in effect tab) to get the pink cast off the cdng'sNew Update:
AE work Around look for my AE work around video bottom of page
I just quit and reopened the saved project, and it worked out well to reduce the pink cast. Have you had issues opening in speed grade?
Quote from: painya on November 01, 2013, 03:41:02 AM
Have you had issues opening in speed grade?
Yes , i open up the ppro project but the files from the AE nest on timeline
were off line but the cdngs were there.
My speedgrade simply won't open even if I'm just opening a project with a single Cdng clip. Any ideas?
Speed Grade only works with cdng's, i use the raw2cdng for pc.
Speed Grade is on my Mac, Check for updates , i just downloaded
my copy today about 4 hours ago, i wonder it there is a new version out.
After i installed i rebooted my mac and then open up speed grade.
I really like SG interface Very easy to get around and setup Color Space
I think i will spend more time Grading in there. :)
Quote from: reddeercity on November 01, 2013, 04:21:27 AM
Speed Grade only works with cdng's, i use the raw2cdng for pc.
Speed Grade is on my Mac, Check for updates , i just downloaded
my copy today about 4 hours ago, i wonder it there is a new version out.
After i installed i rebooted my mac and then open up speed grade.
I really like SG interface Very easy to get around and setup Color Space
I think i will spend more time Grading in there. :)
I do only use CDNG's :D. The October update included speedgrade so I have the most recent copy. I'll try rebooting and see if anything comes from that.
Auto color method did not work for me :(
Quote from: DTSET123 on November 01, 2013, 04:36:38 AM
Auto color method did not work for me :(
When I just saved, quit, and reloaded the project it worked. Pretty unscientific... but worked for me!
There more updates, i just checked & 2 new updates for Speed grade and Premiere Pro.
so make sure your check ;)
Edit: if you use the Auto Levels in the effect tab in
Premiere Pro, i would say that is Bang on for the image :)
reddeercity, auto color is not working for me, nor is closing the project and reopening. I am working with indoor footage shot under tungsten light and it has terrible red cast even after auto color. Your outdoor footage after auto color does look better than my indoor, but still not correct colors.
And can you please clarify what you mean by two additional updates to Premiere Pro and Speedgrade? Are you saying there are some more updates after premiere pro 7.1 and Speedgrade 7.1? Because I am not seeing any additional updates and I can find no mention of them by Adobe. Also, it makes no sense that they would release 2 updates for each of these programs on the same day. Please check versions and reply with what the heck you are talking about. My Premiere Pro is 7.1.0 (141) on Windows 7 and Speedgrade is 7.1x158
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1326153?tstart=0
It's being discussed here at Adobe. Auto Color and Auto Levels absolutely do not work. Even if you get a shot looking decent, once you try to color grade it the levels and color go insane. This is a poor workaround. Be sure to post in the thread on Adobe in order to get attention from Staff and send bug reports to Adobe. Someone posted a link for that in the forum.
does the updated media encoder recognice cdng or dng files?
greets.
It does indeed.
Hey Guys, i think i found a work Around to the Pink Cast!
I imported CDNG's in to AE used the ACR plugin then Saved project as
a CS6 AE project then Start a new project in Premiere Pro CC
import the AE CS6 project , its links to the original cdng's
And import with the ACR adjustments no pink cast.
But if you try and sent your AR project to premiere the cdng's will
have the pink cast.
So when you save as a "CS6" project in AE you can continue on to edit etc..
I did this test on my PC, i have not tried it on the MAC.
Can someone confirm this workaround please :)
I got this message when I tried to open the .dng files in Pr and Sg CC with the latest update. Downloaded all the latest versions of 5D3 ML, latest modules of raw_rec and mvl_rec, and raw2dng and mvl2dng.
Premiere Pro
Error Message:
The file appears to have no media data.
SpeedGrade
Failed to decode frame.
I am on PC, is this a PC related issue?
Been searching for a fix most of the afternoon and haven't found one yet. Ideas?
Quote from: reddeercity on November 02, 2013, 02:08:09 AM
Hey Guys, i think i found a work Around to the Pink Cast!
I imported CDNG's in to AE used the ACR plugin then Saved project as
a CS6 AE project then Start a new project in Premiere Pro CC
import the AE CS6 project , its links to the original cdng's
And import with the ACR adjustments no pink cast.
But if you try and sent your AR project to premiere the cdng's will
have the pink cast.
So when you save as a "CS6" project in AE you can continue on to edit etc..
I did this test on my PC, i have not tried it on the MAC.
Can someone confirm this workaround please :)
Confirm! All of the footage needs to be on the AE timeline which can take some more time, but it works! SG still doesn't work, but this is much better! Make a sticky out of this!
Quote from: ChadMuffin on November 02, 2013, 02:26:25 AM
I got this message when I tried to open the .dng files in Pr and Sg CC with the latest update. Downloaded all the latest versions of 5D3 ML, latest modules of raw_rec and mvl_rec, and raw2dng and mvl2dng.
Premiere Pro
Error Message:
The file appears to have no media data.
SpeedGrade
Failed to decode frame.
I am on PC, is this a PC related issue?
Been searching for a fix most of the afternoon and haven't found one yet. Ideas?
The New Update only work with Cinema DNG's , you need to convert with "raw2cdng"
Just did i Quick Screen Capture of the CS6 Work Around for Premiere Pro CC 7.1
:)
that's nothing new. This is how we have been processing raws so far. We hoped that this new 7.1 release would eliminate the AE workaround.
Until raw2cdng's converter gets reworked it look like the only option to edit in Premiere Pro
that this time :)
Quote from: reddeercity on November 02, 2013, 07:57:18 AM
Until raw2cdng's converter gets reworked it look like the only option to edit in Premiere Pro
that this time :)
Is cdng's the same as DNG's? When on a Mac I use RAWMagic or RAW2DNG converter, does those DNG keep the CInemaDNG title?
CinemaDNGs are DNGs with some more attributes. Videosoftware is generally not able to open dng, adobe just did it via acr-wrapping (now native), da vinci and some more pricey apps are doing well with cinemaDNGs.
RAWMagic, raw2cdng does CinemaDNG
RAW2DNG does DNG
You said we had to do adjustments in ACR. Does that mean we can not color grade in PP?
i cant answer this question, because i'll subscribe the next days. but, as i understand, the dynamiclinking with speedgrade gives you all abilities to do a smooth workflow. fi, you can use grade-presets from speedgrade in premiere - thats worth a lot.
To edit I've been opening premiere and then adding the after FX projects as media, creating an "auto" sequence marks it as arri raw and we're done. Some preview rendering and it plays nice all graded and everything.
hmm. but thats now how it is meant to be..
shouldn´t we just open prem cc and import the cdng files.. voila.. ?
perhaps for future versions the converter for raw to cdng could just imitate the material as if it was shot with a bmcc..
i can not understand why a company like adobe just missed the magic lantern support.? if that would be my company, i would support raw and mlv.. :)
but by the way.. it is not mine.. so we can just wait and hope.
greets. thx.
Is getting it to work a matter of Adobe refining their CDNG codec, or another tool (like raw2cdng) adapting the DNGs more to what adobe is looking for? This pink cast is the EXACT same thing that happens when I look at my .CR2 files in a non-supported raw viewing program like Picasa or similar. Exact same pink haze on my 5DIII photos. Is it just not reading the YUV or RGB or bayered info in the correct order or something? And why magenta?
Sorry to ramble. I'm just as eager to see this work as everyone, especially since I am seeing realtime playback with my CDNGs. Which is amazing.
I tried to open my cdng's with AE CC and got the pink colour cast the first time. Updated AE CC today and the pink colour cast is magically gone.
Moving. Wrong thread.
@cinematicSyndicate
if you open a 16bit cdng (not corrected) in speedgrade, you'll see, that the components (rgb) have different baselevel and amplitude, therefore it exists the colormatrix to match these values. nor speedgrade neither premiere reads the colormatrix inside the cdng. For Speedgrade its not that difficult to write a colormatrix or calibration-lut, premiere (it seems) is sticked to bmcc-dngs - and thats the great bummer - the inventor of the "universal raw-format" burns itself.
regards chmee
Hi :)
I think there is some improvement in Premiere Pro cc
I just finish a fresh install Mavericks 10.9.1 of my MacPro
and I notice that Premiere Pro has been updated I think
the version I have on the Mac is 7.2.1 (4)
It seems if you apply auto Level effect to the Cdng it Looks Right.
Now whether you get the full 16bits or just a 8bit to work with I'm not sure
I'll post some images later. :D
Doesn't quite work. The latest version of PP seems to bring the image to a somewhat sane color space when Auto Levels is applied, but there is still a lot of funkiness happening in the image.
Hopefully it's fixed with PP 7.3
will there is some progress :)
Also I have notice if you go in to the Sequence Setting menu,
the editing Mode seem to default to "Red Cinema"
and preview file format to MPEG-I Frame.
So I change these setting
Editing Mode: Custom
Video preview file format to Quick Time
Codec: apple ProRes 4444
check off max. bit depth,max render quality.
it seem to speed up the time line, with Open CL gpu acceleration enabled.
image looks cleaner too, so I just wonder if it has something to do with it ;)
Edit : Just tried the Send to Speed Grade from Premiere ,
Works very well but the biggest think it the image look amazing !
What ever Premiere Pro is doing it seem not to be affected in Speed Grade .
There again are you getting the full 16bits ? I think maybe we are , will have to
Do more tests. Speed Grade Version CC 7.2x34
There's a new Premiere Pro update which just came out recently and the pink cast seems to be gone from imported CDNG files.
On the negative side, the footage looks very washed out, like really badly washed out and flat, but not in a good LOG way, but in a bad no contrast way. Tweaking the levels helps a bit but still not anywhere close to the way it looks when I bring it into Resolve.
I don't know, it doesn't show any different results to me. I still get pink images importing the CDNG's directly to Premiere.
Quote from: random on January 06, 2014, 07:48:43 PM
I don't know, it doesn't show any different results to me. I still get pink images importing the CDNG's directly to Premiere.
Get they eyeframe converter and then just import the tiffs. Premeir Pro can support 16bit tiffs and they look great.
Is there any progress in improving ML DNG support in CC? What is the status for today?
Still pink...nothing new to report!
Ahh, thats bad.... :( , thanks for the information.