Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => Hardware and Accessories => Topic started by: aaphotog on July 12, 2013, 02:31:16 AM

Title: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: aaphotog on July 12, 2013, 02:31:16 AM
Does anyone own an android tablet that allows you to hook up your canon and view the cameras Live view on the tablets display?
If so, how are you hooking it up? Usb or HDMI?
Is it easy and clear to focus
Also, what is the lag time?
Last, if you are using Magic Lantern on your camera, how is it looking on the tablet?

I'm thinking about buying something like this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+Galaxy+Tab+2+7.0+with+8GB+Memory+-+Titanium+Silver/5064393.p?id=1218604366681&skuId=5064393

Do you think it will work good?
By the way, this will be used for video, not photos so it's got to be pretty smooth with preferably no lag time to get a good focus on moving people
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: dsManning on July 13, 2013, 01:50:43 AM
I own a Nexus 7 which I hook up to my 50D.
Hook up over USB
Using the app DSLR Controller you have full control over all Canon functions.  Focus, ISO, Shutter, Focus, etc.
Usually outputs around 15fps which is pretty reasonable for video review on set.
Using this app, it does not show any of the Magic Lantern functions. However, it does have a few of its own. Bracketing, Timelapse, etc.

The Glaxay Tab 2 should work for you.

Be warned though, if you plan on shooting RAW video, you will get no video output over USB with RAW enabled.  I tested this in the 50D dev thread for RAW video, and as of now there is no workaround.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg56411#msg56411 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg56411#msg56411)
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: kgv5 on July 13, 2013, 02:11:28 AM
6D gives an ability to make a monitoring wirelessly (wifi) via canon's EOS remote free app. Despite it gives around 15fps it works great during raw recording. What's interesting it doesn't work when you want to record h264.
Title: Oh golly gosh!
Post by: aaphotog on July 13, 2013, 04:03:31 AM
I was contemplating buying a monitor for focus or whatnot. I was thinking small hd.
Instea of doing that, I thought I'd try the cheap way out first. So, I went to my nearest electronic store and picked up a Nexus 7 16GB for $169.99
Then I searched for HOURS to find a micro USB to female USB A OTG plug to hook my camera up to this thing. In the entire Chicago are there was ONE store that had this item which was Frys. The cord cost me $6
Then I went and bought the DSLR Controller app. I believe it was $8. I hooked my camera up and I've got Live view!!!
Now, I was quite skeptical because these controllers are usually VERY sluggis(think eos software that comes with camera) but this tablet shows the image damn near instantaneous very smooth it's unbelievable. I bought this anticipating taking it back for not working how I hoped it would. Now I guess I'm out of my money because I'm keeping it. So, for those wanting a monitor for focus and just an all around bigger view(7") this entire setup only cost me $184(really $214 after taxes)
I have TWO issues.
1) it doesn't work with my iPad. Idiot Apple smh. Would have saved me $200
2) while recording in crop mode(raw video) the image that ML shows me(the hacked one in black in white for the correct field of view) shows up in normale color on the tab(not a bad thing) BUT its waaaaay to the side. What I see on the cam and on tab(in crop mode) are two different things.
Any ideas on how I might be able to over come this anyone?

If anyone is curious. I'm using a 5D3. I'm soooooo glad I didn't just dish out the money to smallHD
I sound like a commercial but I promise, neither of these products are mine(except for the ones that I just paid for)

Title: Re: Oh golly gosh!
Post by: aaphotog on July 13, 2013, 04:06:51 AM
I'm in the parking lot of Frys right now so I literally just got this going but had to write about it. I'll do a more thorough testing when I get home. I do hope that focus peak and everything else works.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: aaphotog on July 13, 2013, 05:13:18 AM
I own a Nexus 7 which I hook up to my 50D.
Hook up over USB
Using the app DSLR Controller you have full control over all Canon functions.  Focus, ISO, Shutter, Focus, etc.
Usually outputs around 15fps which is pretty reasonable for video review on set.
Using this app, it does not show any of the Magic Lantern functions. However, it does have a few of its own. Bracketing, Timelapse, etc.

The Glaxay Tab 2 should work for you.

Be warned though, if you plan on shooting RAW video, you will get no video output over USB with RAW enabled.  I tested this in the 50D dev thread for RAW video, and as of now there is no workaround.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg56411#msg56411 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg56411#msg56411)

I LOVE THIS TABLET NOW!!!
I'm able to record with Raw WHILE viewing on the tablet and its not even having an effect on my write speed. Maybe it's because I have a 5D3. Maybe the 50d is your problem?
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: eyeland on July 28, 2013, 02:05:19 PM
I'm able to record with Raw WHILE viewing on the tablet and its not even having an effect on my write speed.
Care to share your settings, ML build and android version?
For me, it works on and off, when recording, sometimes DSLRcontroller freezes, sometime my camera locks up in ways I had never seen before :(
Btw, I am on the early Juli build from Lourenco and Android 4.3 on Nexus 7 via a cheap OTG cable from ebay.
I'd really love for this to work, the focus peaking on the DSLRcontroller app is amazing!
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 08, 2013, 12:05:17 AM
Someone already tested this on the 5D2?
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: dsManning on August 08, 2013, 08:30:12 PM
Don't think so.  Been looking for a tester for awhile.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: scrizz on August 09, 2013, 10:24:58 AM
Awesome, now I just need to get my camera.  ;D
xD
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: Africashot on August 09, 2013, 01:13:41 PM
Someone already tested this on the 5D2?
Will be testing this on 5D2 as from the 21st, hopefully!
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 09, 2013, 06:07:40 PM
After days and hours of research I gave up. There's simply no info about monitoring raw video on a 5D2 via USB/Android.

So, I bought a Nexus 7 and tried it out. The result: I does not work!

I used the DSRL Controller app by chainfire for Android.
Well everything works really fine, even recoding movies in H.264.
But as soon as you activate RAW-Video from canon menu (just loading the module has no effect) the liveview on Android remains to the last frame and doesn't update until RAW-video is disabled again.
As far as I can see, it's just the image-preview - since the buttons an the Android app are still working with raw activated.

In addition: I can still record raw video with android connected (monitoring on the 5D's screen) - but the write speed is about 20MB/s less (which can be avoided using small hacks, by the way).

Summary: Activating RAW-Video stopps the liveview to update on the Android device, altough all buttons are still working.

This same issue is already reported for 50D and 40D:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg56411#msg56411 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg56411#msg56411)
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: a1ex on August 09, 2013, 06:08:51 PM
Just curious: when you disable raw video, does the image appear again?
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 09, 2013, 11:40:04 PM
Yes, even without unplugging the device.

When I deactivate RAW video, the display output on Android immediately continues updating.
To me it seems, like the cam completely maintains the connection (due to less writing speed), but just doesn't output video to the USB while RAW is active.

By the way: while canon or ml menu is open it also stops.

Here's a little video, just to show:

I tried latest stock nightly, as well as latest a.d.'s build. Both with and without Small Hacks activated.
Also I tried with and without HDMI monitor.
→ 8 combinations altogether
The exact same happens in all combinations.

Is there anything else, any setting or combination I should test?


May there be any possibility to solve that problem?
Using this Android combination has some nice advantages. Like Peaking outside the cam, using Android as monitor together with internal display or HDMI.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: dsManning on August 10, 2013, 02:02:16 AM
Thank you for testing. Now we know that the 5Diii has something the 5Dii and 50D does not have that enables RAW video output. All the same results on the 50D. Sudden stop/start of video on tablet as soon as RAW module is toggled. All buttons still work.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: Danne on August 10, 2013, 02:30:39 AM
I got this to work on my 5d mark 3 and a samsung galaxy s2lte.  I use the dslrcontroller app. It,s not 100% stable and I got a few error 70 crashes wich created some logs. I get around 1500 frames in 1920x1080 24fps. I drop about 8-10 mb in speed due to connection with usb but its good enough for viewing and so on. I even get audio metering, I only get a frozen image when in crop mode.
//D
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: Africashot on August 10, 2013, 07:53:25 AM
WHat a shame, I really had very high hopes to use this on the 5D2 for peaking focus during raw recording, are there any chances there might be a workaround? Still blown away by the fact that dual ISO is working!
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 10, 2013, 10:52:16 AM
Thank you for testing. Now we know that the 5Diii has something the 5Dii and 50D does not have that enables RAW video output. All the same results on the 50D. Sudden stop/start of video on tablet as soon as RAW module is toggled. All buttons still work.
Maybe it's just enabled/disabled by luck so far - since no one seemed to look at this thoroughly, yet.

WHat a shame, I really had very high hopes to use this on the 5D2 for peaking focus during raw recording, are there any chances there might be a workaround?
I still have very high hopes. At least no one said it's impossible.
To me it looks just like an overlooked setting, which can be fixed!

What do you mean by workaround?
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: tronics on August 11, 2013, 05:08:11 PM
Hmm, I know that the EOS Live is quite slow I have tested it with Canon 5d mkII mkIII
Probably it is 10fps. But is in no way a evf or something.
Better is a HDMI streaming usb stick from Blackmagic with a Windows 8 tablet.

I tried the Note with the Android app and a special cable and it lagged similarily.
However I wonder about the new Nexus 7. Probably it is the same but it hads the capability to give us more fps.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 12, 2013, 08:32:58 AM
Hmm, I know that the EOS Live is quite slow I have tested it with Canon 5d mkII mkIII
Probably it is 10fps. But is in no way a evf or something.
Better is a HDMI streaming usb stick from Blackmagic with a Windows 8 tablet.

I tried the Note with the Android app and a special cable and it lagged similarily.
However I wonder about the new Nexus 7. Probably it is the same but it hads the capability to give us more fps.
I used the DSLR Controller by Chainfire for monitoring. Within the app, you can set fps to 30. And it looks like that.

The only real downside is a lag of around 0.5 seconds (check my test video above).
So, you're right, I wouldn't use it for framing, especially for fast movements.

But, my 5D2 is too slow for computing peaking while recording raw. This needs to be done outside the cam.
There are two possibilities: Android or an external HD monitor with peaking.

When I compare these two, I prefer Android for two reasons:
- It's much cheaper than a comparable field monitor with internal peaking (a used Nexus 7 costs around 100$ at eBay vs. 350$ for a appropriate monitor)
- Since the android device is connected to USB, the internal monitor is still active (so is HDMI) and can be used for framing (no second monitor needed, since internal display is still active!).

I would use this setup for e.g. SteadyCam shots: Framing with internal display (or a cheap SD HDMI monitor) and remote focus pulling from behind by someone else with the Android app and an electronic follow focus.

I hope that it's possible at all and that the effort to make it possible is low enough, so that someone cares beside all the other great developments like e.g. Dual ISO ;)
At least it's an option for everyone else than 5D3 owners (which is, to my knowledge, the only cam with the abbility to use USB combined with raw video).
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: aaphotog on August 12, 2013, 09:23:02 AM
Yes, even without unplugging the device.

When I deactivate RAW video, the display output on Android immediately continues updating.
To me it seems, like the cam completely maintains the connection (due to less writing speed), but just doesn't output video to the USB while RAW is active.

By the way: while canon or ml menu is open it also stops.

Here's a little video, just to show:

I tried latest stock nightly, as well as latest a.d.'s build. Both with and without Small Hacks activated.
Also I tried with and without HDMI monitor.
→ 8 combinations altogether
The exact same happens in all combinations.

Is there anything else, any setting or combination I should test?


May there be any possibility to solve that problem?
Using this Android combination has some nice advantages. Like Peaking outside the cam, using Android as monitor together with internal display or HDMI.
My setup doesn't do that. And your lag, is MUCH slower than mine.
Edit: just noticed you're on a 5d2. I'm working with the mark iii
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 12, 2013, 05:05:42 PM
My setup doesn't do that. And your lag, is MUCH slower than mine.
Edit: just noticed you're on a 5d2. I'm working with the mark iii
The lag is something I can cope with easily - as long as there is some picture at all.

And since I'm a student, the 5D3 is actually out of my financial reach.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: Midphase on August 13, 2013, 09:14:57 AM
So a tablet connected to the USB port is better or worse than an external monitor hooked up t the HDMI out? Can you use it for focusing? Will it provide you with false color, zebras and focus peaking?

Considering that a 7" Lilliput monitor can be had for about $250, is the Nexus worth it as an option?
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: Danne on August 13, 2013, 09:29:40 AM
I get quite a good view on my samsung galaxy s2lte. It,s not super reliable and it,s working with 24fps, barely. dslr controller has focus peaking, I don,t know about other stuff. Didn,t try with a hdmi monitor, probably more reliable, but if you have a phone lying around this solution is very nice.
I also use with real estate photography which makes this app totally worth the buy. No more crawling around on the floor ;).
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 13, 2013, 08:07:48 PM
So a tablet connected to the USB port is better or worse than an external monitor hooked up t the HDMI out? Can you use it for focusing? Will it provide you with false color, zebras and focus peaking?

Considering that a 7" Lilliput monitor can be had for about $250, is the Nexus worth it as an option?
Zebras and false color are pretty useless on both options (when you record RAW), since they are not computed on raw sensor data (as it's done inside the cam by ML). So, only focus peaking makes sense to be used.
I would say the HDMI is more usable, when it comes to lag time.
But the peaking function on the Lilliput is said to be average at the most. It's much better on e.g. a Nexus, due to much more computing capacity and better algorithms. Also: Apps are possibly expandable with new algorithms, zebras, meters and maybe even RAW-support.

When you plug in a HDMI cable, the internal monitor shuts down. So, if you plan to use a monitor for someone else than the cinematographer (e.g. the director somewhere behind), the cam needs to be equipped with another monitor as well.

At this point, it also want to mention that a Lilliput with a big rechargeable battery lasts 4 hours. So, you would need some more batteries and at of course a recharger.
4 hours is what the Nexus lasts out of the box. And batterie extenders for Tablets/Smartphones are pretty cheap and give you up to 3 complete recharges.


So, if lag time at a second monitor is a decisive argument for you, then you'll need HDMI (with probably two monitors, batteries, etc.).
If it doesn't matter, you're going the cheaper way with even better peaking.
___

BUT: Yet, only the 5D3 supports USB output with RAW video enabled. And I didn't find anything about whether it's possible on other ML-cams or not.
In other words: Is it accessible by software or is it a hardware limitation?

Just curious: when you disable raw video, does the image appear again?
a1ex: Did you ask with a possible solution in mind? ;)

Thanks for your time! I hope there is a way...
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: zooda on August 15, 2013, 12:32:09 PM
Just a bit offtopic:
Are there any drawbacks, when I would like to use a tablet with 2.5K resolution for the same purpose - monitoring.

I was thinking of Onda v973 with retina display, as it's the cheapest of it's kind, offering great image + usb port.
Would it make sense to use it, or the similarly priced "field monitors" with lower resolution are better at this ?

Regards,
Rainer.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: guentergunter on August 19, 2013, 09:29:28 PM
That depends on the data, the camera outputs on the USB port.
If it has always the same (full) resolution, then there's no drawback in performance.

By the way: I sold my Nexus again, since I don't see any hope, that it will be supported by RAW in the future...
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: peoplemerge on September 30, 2013, 09:34:46 PM
Old thread I know.

@tronics have you used the Blackmagic hdmi -> usb with a Windows tablet?  If it's compelling it could turn this diehard Android guy to the dark side. :)
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: Dzsotti on January 15, 2014, 01:06:04 PM
I read Chat Thread interested in the subject, I want to use the tablet monitronak normal, but because of the live view usb15fps not the real problem.
Asking someone not working on a solution like this:

Easycap adroidra conversion or cheap gadgets? Sort by Mikkel can think of is available at 25fps
Tools are in place, android USB OTG, but someone should write him an apk. You may not understand just ask him level possible idea? Sorry for my bad English google translator).
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: joaomoutinho on August 06, 2014, 10:24:33 PM
I havê a 50D and I wanted to monitor from the nexus 7. Is it possible?
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on December 12, 2014, 12:38:48 AM
Guys-

I know this may be a long shot but currently DSLRcontroller only supports on iOS 7 and I have a mini iPad jail broken on 8.1.2 -- so I'm not able to purchase this app from Cydia since there's no way to downgrade from 8 back to 7 ( I know shame on me ) but...

My question now is there anyone out there whom has an iPad Jailbroken via iOS 7.0+ that have access to Cydia and I can temporarily share my account username/password in order for one of you guys to kindly do me a favor by purchasing DSLRcontroller with my account and sign out from my account back to your account...

That way In order for me to try and test out DSLRcontroller on iOS 8.1.2 with my iPad mini to confirm whether or not it work which I think it should but since it's NOT updated for iOS 8 -- I just don't have the patience to wait any longer...

Thanks for reading this!
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: ShootMeAlready on December 14, 2014, 07:56:52 PM
Ok - here is another kind of hack.  Get your $65 3X 3.2" screen loupe of amazon.  If you own a 650D, 700D, 70D then cut the bottom out.

You can not only focus check, but with the poke access you can use the touch screen and its features while viewing.

Not elegant but for a 70D it may be the only working way to use touch AF focus pull with ML (when it becomes available and its getting closer by the day).

Probably need a tripod or a shoulder harness to stablizile your camera.
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: chmee on December 14, 2014, 08:31:58 PM
Days ago there was an entry on slashcam, sending it to a stationary TV - with dslrcontroller and a chromecast-stick.
english (http://cheesycam.com/stream-wireless-video-from-canon-dslr-to-hdmi-monitor-with-30-dollar-google-chromecast/) - german (http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Drahtloses-Videostreaming-von-DSLR-zum-Monitor-fuer-11803.html)
Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: ShootMeAlready on December 14, 2014, 09:29:35 PM
Another approach is to perhaps write a wrapper that will support ML on DLSR Controller App.
Keep the design simple: Run ML on the camera, and DLSR controller App on the Tablet. The idea is to run the wrapper on the Tablet, so as not to burden the camera processing one bit (except now it handles a few incoming USB commands).
The gain in functionality is: You can focus check on DSLR controller app, set AF points on the touch screen, and record.  The rest is done on ML using its features, and these are sent as part of the picture to DSLR controller app. Not much is lost here.
You effectively gain ML display on a tablet size screen, and not so many features of DSLR controller app, but instead still trigger all your ML features from the camera LCD.
Then the only thing you have to use a wrapper (running on the tablet), is for three things:
1. update the full picture/display (usb RX from ML to DLSR controller),
2. AF point selection on touchscreen (usb TX from DSLR Controller app to ML), and
3. record (usb TX from DSLR controller app to ML).
 
A procedure:
* I guess download the canon SDK and see what tools you can use to monitor USB input/output *
- step one: map the picture/display output from the usb with Canon running standard.
- step two: load up ML, then repeat the exercise mapping the same output again.
- step three: write a wrapper that converts the canon ML display output to standard canon display output, as DSLR controller should now display the ML display output.
~~ Having run ML with EOS utility I do think ML can do this but I am not sure about its overlays, which would be needed since we are using ML and not DSLR controller for the features (focus peaks etc.)

- step four: map the AF touchscreen and record button output from DSLR controller app usb to a standard canon usb input.
- step five: get from ML its usb interface:  I wonder if this had been disabled through hack???  Hopefully some inside folks know the answer. Anyways need to be able to trigger a ML record, and update AF (this is likely same as standard canon)
- step six: update the wrapper to covert DLSR controller usb outputs, back to ML equivalent commands.  (hopefully some will document/wiki/provide)

- step seven: test and debug. 
I think this is a lot more doable by keeping the design simple.

** THE TWO BIG QUESTIONS HERE ARE
1. CAN ML SEND ITS FULL DISPLAY INCLUDING OVERLAYS TO THE USB ?
2. CAN ML RECEIVE (RX) AF touchpoints and RECORD COMMANDS ON THE USB ? **


FYI Canon SDK's, written in C.
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/sdk_homepage#SDKQ1

Title: Re: Monitoring on tablets
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on December 14, 2014, 11:24:17 PM
Anyone with an iPad of any kind on iOS 7.1.2 that would be willingly to do me a favor?

As requested earlier from few posts up above...

Thx!