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General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: proXify on July 02, 2013, 12:32:07 PM

Title: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: proXify on July 02, 2013, 12:32:07 PM
Hi,

The Canon 70D is released!

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/02/canon-70d-hands-on/
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/07/canon-eos-70d-announced/

What do you think about Raw video? How are the specs? is UHS-i fast enough to write high speed video?
Where does it fit in the raw chart?
http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/raw/raw-chart.png

Thanks in advance! :)
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: Botasky on July 02, 2013, 12:57:12 PM
I think it might be better for raw video because the buffer size should be bigger(for 7FPS) and I think card read/write speed gonna be faster than 60D which have speed at 21MB/s. 
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: duppencf on July 02, 2013, 05:01:02 PM
Notice that the SD card is actually a UHS-1 slot...very promising?
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: fauxtographer on July 02, 2013, 05:16:00 PM
The 6D also has a UHS-1 slot... and it is limited to 50 MB/s.
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: proXify on July 02, 2013, 06:07:50 PM
The 6D also has a UHS-1 slot... and it is limited to 50 MB/s.

Yes :) but thats already more mb/s then the Canon 600/650/700D ,.. ? :)

So a RAW would be a bit an improvement ...

It would be great if there was a hardware hack that you have to put a fake SDHC card in it thats an adapter and goes directly to a hard drive or a CF memory card that writes a lot faster! ;)
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: daSilva on July 02, 2013, 06:33:55 PM
I thought the 650D and 700d also has UHS-1?
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: Walter Schulz on July 02, 2013, 06:44:27 PM
Yes, they have. And 650D is limited to about 41 MByte/s. And it doesn't matter if the SD-Slot is connected to a fast, fast card or any other storage device. Bottleneck is the controller chip. (Note to webmaster: Can we do have this as an animated banner or a popup or a sound file? <eg>)

Maybe the developers will find a way to manipulate the controller or there might be a safe and somekind easy hardware hack ... some day. Or not.

Ciao, Walter
Title: Re: Canon 70D
Post by: proXify on July 02, 2013, 06:50:48 PM
Haha :D I have an idea!

You buy an old Canon 50D ... And then you solder the controller chip ? to the Canon 70D .. (ans lose your warranty) So you have a powerful RAW video camera with a lot of great features!  8)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: a1ex on July 02, 2013, 08:13:32 PM
You try first :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: midnite on July 02, 2013, 09:37:27 PM
is there any faster sd card controller? let's  mass order them from china and change  our 550d/600d/650d/700d/60d sd card's controller with the chinese one. so everyone can shoot 1080p raw video:)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: 1% on July 02, 2013, 11:45:54 PM
Firmware doesn't support the speeds the "better" chips would run at.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: ArtSteinhauser on July 03, 2013, 02:11:44 AM
I really hope the ML Team will be able to get ML on the 70D.
I have my 7D and I know the issues with the Dual Processor Problems and I will change my camera to the 70D and when there will be a ML FW and even with RAW capalbilitys that would be a dream worth some money :-)

Whish you luck to implement the ML FW to the 70D.
Art
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: that1guyy on July 03, 2013, 09:51:43 AM
First post here! Long timer lurker though.

With the UHS-1 Card slot, the fairly large buffer on 70D, a fast 95mbs SDXC card, and some Magic Lantern wizardry, is it possible to get close to 1080p raw for at least a minute shooting?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Andy600 on July 03, 2013, 10:01:42 AM
First post here! Long timer lurker though.

With the UHS-1 Card slot, the fairly large buffer on 70D, a fast 95mbs SDXC card, and some Magic Lantern wizardry, is it possible to get close to 1080p raw for at least a minute shooting?

I very much doubt that. First, no one knows if Magic Lantern will work on the 70D yet and second it will likely have the same SD controller limits as the 5d3 and 6d i.e. ~40MB/s. If it does have a better SD controller and ML can be ported it will be a winner for sure!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: jessicapirson321 on July 03, 2013, 09:26:11 PM
I have also find one video review. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYr_qtLehpQ  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYr_qtLehpQ) This camera looks really good and it has everything I need from my digital camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Greg on August 30, 2013, 06:52:56 PM
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/895|0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28appareil2%29/663|0/%28brand2%29/Canon (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/895|0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28appareil2%29/663|0/%28brand2%29/Canon)

70D need DUAL ISO  :(...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Peter1546 on August 31, 2013, 11:55:55 AM
no information about raw recoding resolution atm?
Would like to buy a new camera but im not sure if i should get the 650D or the 70D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Stedda on August 31, 2013, 02:11:20 PM
Does anyone even have one in their hand yet?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Greg on August 31, 2013, 02:28:56 PM
no information about raw recoding resolution atm?
Would like to buy a new camera but im not sure if i should get the 650D or the 70D

Raw Video should act as the 6D (70D has the same MPx and SD).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on September 01, 2013, 05:08:51 AM
I have had my 70D since last Friday and man do I miss ML. I had used ML for over 2 yrs with my 60D, up until it was stolen. >:(
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: vroem on September 01, 2013, 10:58:18 PM
To those who have a 70D and a fast +90MB/s card: Maybe you could test the speed of the card slot and the size of the buffers:

Try shooting in high speed burst mode and count how many shots you get before it slows down.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: stephen_west_usa on September 02, 2013, 07:08:34 AM
Dude has done the work. There is a chart of results at the end of the video.
p.s. First post. I just bought the EOS-M and will be installing a ML build the day it arrives. I am saving up for the 70D. Even without ML it is the right camera for me, but with it, WOW! I am already walking funny because I have my fingers and toes crossed.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: stephen_west_usa on September 02, 2013, 07:23:29 AM
Bye the way there is one extensive final review for the 70D, from Gordon Laing at CameraLabs.
 http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_70D/
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: vroem on September 02, 2013, 10:33:05 AM
Empty buffer speed seems to be about 2fps which probably means 45MB/s like all the other recent Canon SD-card cameras.

This means it's too slow for continuous uncropped raw.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: animanus on September 03, 2013, 01:26:41 AM
does it mean we might be able to get 720p continuous like the 650d? that wouldnt be bad..
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Peter1546 on September 04, 2013, 01:57:24 AM
does it mean we might be able to get 720p continuous like the 650d? that wouldnt be bad..

But also not good as i hoped.. so if it's really that the 70D only records in 720p i will get the 650D because the new features are not 500€ worth.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on September 06, 2013, 04:24:53 PM
On a Trancend 300x class 10 sdhc 1 32 gig card I can shoot at least 10 shots on continuous burst, probably more ;) Im going to get a 95mbs 16 gig class 10 card and try
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Chucho on September 06, 2013, 05:57:51 PM
On a Trancend 300x class 10 sdhc 1 32 gig card I can shoot at least 10 shots on continuous burst, probably more ;) Im going to get a 95mbs 16 gig class 10 card and try

I have an extreme pro shdc @ 95mb/s and getting the same results as you.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Yuppa on September 06, 2013, 06:03:31 PM
The ergonomics ALONE are worth $500 bucks to me (I can't STAND the Rebel bodies).  Most people (non-pros) hold on to bodies for 4 to 5 YEARS, so:

Let's do 4 years:

4 x 365 / $500 = that’s about 34 cents a day not to have my hand ache like HELL!

Add in all the other stuff (and I’m coming from the 60D, so ergo is off the table): time code, 98% viewfinder, better low light ISO performance, Dig!c 5+, 20.2 megapixels, 7D AF (19 points), 3-10x digital zoom, dual pixel AF, multi-exposure mode, video/photo switch, continuous mode dial rotation, ALL-I h.264, AF micro adjustment, and Wi-Fi (and remote capture via app) and it's STILL worth the extra to me.

“I don’t want…” or “I don’t care about…” does NOT equal “…not worth it.”

Plus, it’s a known FACT you need around 100 MB/s (like the 5DM3) to record* full HD RAW.  Why anyone would think the 70D would pull that off when the 6D can’t is beyond me.

*continous
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Smarty Pants on September 17, 2013, 09:43:57 PM
btw microadjustment is only active when you use quick shot in liveview ie completely useless.

I so hope the ML guys can sort the shitty canon firmware and give the features a camera of this cost should have as standard.

all-i is 11.2Mb/s and you can take approx. 1 raw shot per second whilst recording so it'll do at least 35Mb/s - i suspect canon cheaped out with the sd card chip again....no chance of 1080 RAW but 720 should be ok

If you want me to dump any code just let me know
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: pacodecalli on September 19, 2013, 04:07:22 PM
Hi When will be come to this software for Canon 70D ?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: animanus on September 19, 2013, 07:07:50 PM
seems like someones already using it..?

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: pacodecalli on September 20, 2013, 11:42:49 AM
Where is link ?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: animanus on September 20, 2013, 01:37:29 PM
sorry please ignore, its a total scam, the video is from a FS700
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: pacodecalli on September 21, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
i think so..
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on September 22, 2013, 10:49:01 AM
70D need DUAL ISO  :(...

See also here: http://www.sensorgen.info/CanonEOS_70D.html

Being the same generation, the 70d's sensor doesn't gain much over the 60d etc :-\

Empty buffer speed seems to be about 2fps which probably means 45MB/s like all the other recent Canon SD-card cameras. This means it's too slow for continuous uncropped raw.

I wonder if this is "broken by design" and Canon only wants to have the 5d3 fast buffer clear & raw capability, of course they know about ml and realized 5d3 sales have gone up recently with ml raw video... it cannot be that hard to build in a faster sd controller, can it?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Audionut on September 22, 2013, 11:22:14 AM
See also here: http://www.sensorgen.info/CanonEOS_70D.html

Being the same generation, the 70d's sensor doesn't gain much over the 60d etc :-\

Indeed.  It would be nice if Canon moved to an ISOless sensor.

it cannot be that hard to build in a faster sd controller, can it?

It would be simple cost vs benefit analysis I assume.  While they might only save 10c per unit vs a faster controller, 10c per unit x number of units produced becomes a significant factor.  To them anyway, we just want faster controllers in our cameras  :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on September 22, 2013, 08:23:59 PM
It would be simple cost vs benefit analysis I assume.  While they might only save 10c per unit vs a faster controller, 10c per unit x number of units produced becomes a significant factor.  To them anyway, we just want faster controllers in our cameras  :D

Well, we'll never know what's penny pinching and whats feature marketing - but cutting corners like this leaves a bad aftertaste. I could go along with it in a Rebel-class camera, but hardly in a €1500+ 6d. When the 5d3 was released with the crippled sd slot it was rumored to be an overlooked design flaw - but then they did it again (6d) and again (70d).

Imho this upselling strategy for better video (1dx->1dc, 6d->5d3) will prove to be short-sighted of Canon, but most of all I'm disappointed because this way continuous raw video and more widespread ml adoption will be hindered by a $10ct component :-\
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Smarty Pants on September 24, 2013, 01:38:41 AM
so clean hdmi output would be the best compromise

apple gets away with it and the zombies love it so all companies are trying it to certain degrees, cripple and over charge then change formats and connectors slightly to force repurchase. used to be just sony...

i do wonder why canon don't seem to bother with market research though - imagine the camera range if they even just bothered to read this forum
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Smarty Pants on September 24, 2013, 01:46:21 AM
btw canon just told me that teh reason the screen switches off when you plugin the usb audio cable is because users want longer battery life and disabling the screen saves power....yeh it also prevents headphone monitoring...my response was i'd happily carry another battery but a compromise would be an on/off in frmware

considering the d7100 has a dedicated socket the least they could do is give us the option of buying a £3 phono to 3.5mm socket adaptor and getting decent audio.

the alternative is to carry a 7" hdmi screen and losing the touch functions....and a rig to hold it

a samsung camera running android with an EF fitting will change all of this old school crap.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 24, 2013, 12:43:12 PM
raw is much better in image quality because of the 14 bit color depth, instead of the 8 bit color depth of H264 encoding.
raw needs that high data throughput because of the uncompressed stream.

no need to have 100MB/sec writing if the stream is still 14 bit color depth but compressed.

let ML guys to implement a compression that will reduce the stream bandwidth under 40MB/sec, and then, all SD card cameras will be capable of recording full hd 14 bit stream.

that's all.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: animanus on September 24, 2013, 12:49:23 PM
uhh thats all? make a whole new compression format that beats all the others that already exist?!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 25, 2013, 09:11:48 AM
uhh thats all? make a whole new compression format that beats all the others that already exist?!

it's not about creating a new compression format but implementing one from the existing that keeps the 14-bit color depth. e.g. lzw or one of its variant can be used that's a lossless compression and reduce the stream to half size. that would double the bandwidth used... and we're only talking about a simple compression.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Rewind on September 25, 2013, 10:43:40 AM
Quote
let ML guys to implement a compression that will reduce the stream bandwidth
Better let yourself think just a little, why such a brilliant idea hasn't implemented yet )
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 25, 2013, 11:08:53 AM
Better let yourself think just a little, why such a brilliant idea hasn't implemented yet )

tell me why, because i only see 2 reasons that'd block this implementation: human or sw/hw resource problem.

which one?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Rewind on September 25, 2013, 11:28:33 AM
tell me why, because i only see 2 reasons that'd block this implementation: human or sw/hw resource problem.

which one?

HW of course. DIGIC is not an i7 you know
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 25, 2013, 11:42:33 AM
HW of course. DIGIC is not an i7 you know

no kidding? ;) i don't know what it's capable of, but they solved lots of algorithms, I don't see a reason not being able to implement it. if they can read and manipulate the stream and having basic mathematical and bitwise operations and some spare memory space to use, the only thing that'd prevent the implementation is the processing speed.

but if you're sure, i believe you as i'm not familiar with digic 5 development.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Rewind on September 25, 2013, 12:03:11 PM
Quote
any form of compression will require CPU cycles and unfortunately, the developers have stated that there are none to spare while copying the raw files from memory to card

Also, read this:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7095.msg59225#msg59225
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7447.msg63508#msg63508
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 25, 2013, 12:18:06 PM
I see, it's a pity.

But, we'll see. Those cameras are DIGIC 4 based, but DIGIC 5, and especially DIGIC 5+ are much stronger while need to write the same amount of data.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Smarty Pants on September 26, 2013, 01:36:00 AM
even if we'll never write 14bit 1080p would there be any possibility of intercepting the data between the sensor and the all-i compressor? if so then could plugins or presets be set to run? then let the camera down sample to 8 bit using the custom parameters and write as normal
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Shield on September 27, 2013, 09:49:24 AM
I'm thinking of buying one of these from Microcenter tomorrow - as much as I love my 5d3 + raw, shooting video of sports (baseball) is just too much work and I'm not getting good results.  Well I am when the batter's up, but halfway down to first I can't keep up with focus.
I can't use auto ISO else it's a pain to fix in post.  Can't record audio unless I'm using the zoom H1 on the shoe. 
Right now I have to adjust the Vari-ND filter, set exposure, make sure the Zoom is running, pull focus all by myself.

Sure, you'll say this wasn't designed for this; it's more for static scenes.  I agree.

But that's why I might buy a 70D tomorrow - just set it on auto-ISO, let it AF, and record audio on its own.  Might make for better overall footage, but obviously I'd lose the wow factor.  Tough decisions.  All I know is I've gone the camcorder route and absolutely HATE the deep DOF "live" look.
I recorded most of a game yesterday with a GoPro3 hidden behind home plate and it just doesn't do it for me.

How do you guys record your kids' sports?  Disclaimer - my wife is not only camera illiterate, she doesn't want to know (yeah, worse case).  I'm hoping the 70d would be super simple for her to use.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 27, 2013, 10:35:36 AM
How do you guys record your kids' sports?  Disclaimer - my wife is not only camera illiterate, she doesn't want to know (yeah, worse case).  I'm hoping the 70d would be super simple for her to use.

If I read correctly, you're interested in autofocus capabilities. I own this camera for ~2 weeks now, and I played a little with it. I use it with a 17-55 IS USM.

You can either use Servo AF (full automatic) in video mode (either with face tracking or simply a certain point), or you can turn it off and use focus by hand.

When using Servo AF, it zooms slower, more gradient, but accurate, no hunting. This is good for overall usage, and can track anything moving at "normal" speed. This cannot track very fast movements like full zoomed on a kid's face who's running around. But for wide, it's working perfectly. I read in a Canon paper that the engineers slowed down the focus change to have movie look, because it can perform much faster (see next option).

The other option is to turn Servo AF off and use manual autofocus. It means that the camera focuses to the place where the focus box is when you push the AF-ON button. This is very fast, almost instantly, no hunting. Not as fast as the conventional PDAF AF, but almost at fast, always < 1sec, usually ~0.5 secs. This is good when you're moving the camera and when you stand on a new object, push the button, and it gets focus. Also, in this mode, the focusing noise of the lens is only heard when you push the button.

My lens has an audible noise, mainly in Servo AF where the camera is always focusing. in AF-ON mode, its better because much infrequent. According to the reviews, STM lenses have no audible noise and they focus smoothly.

So, if you like to record games, not fully zoomed on faces, I think you'll be satisfied with the Servo AF with an STM lens. 55-250 STM is now available, try one because it has the coverage I think you need.

The sensitivity of the sensor is a bit better, but it doesn't matter for outdoor sports. Compared to the 5d3, you don't have Tv and Av modes on this camera, only AUTO and MANUAL. In AUTO, you cannot set ISO, in MANUAL, you need to set everything manually (but there is auto ISO). So, in MANUAL, you set the aperture to the desired, you set the shutter speed to 50 and you set auto ISO, it'll work fine.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Shield on September 27, 2013, 12:29:40 PM
If I read correctly, you're interested in autofocus capabilities. I own this camera for ~2 weeks now, and I played a little with it. I use it with a 17-55 IS USM.

You can either use Servo AF (full automatic) in video mode (either with face tracking or simply a certain point), or you can turn it off and use focus by hand.

When using Servo AF, it zooms slower, more gradient, but accurate, no hunting. This is good for overall usage, and can track anything moving at "normal" speed. This cannot track very fast movements like full zoomed on a kid's face who's running around. But for wide, it's working perfectly. I read in a Canon paper that the engineers slowed down the focus change to have movie look, because it can perform much faster (see next option).

The other option is to turn Servo AF off and use manual autofocus. It means that the camera focuses to the place where the focus box is when you push the AF-ON button. This is very fast, almost instantly, no hunting. Not as fast as the conventional PDAF AF, but almost at fast, always < 1sec, usually ~0.5 secs. This is good when you're moving the camera and when you stand on a new object, push the button, and it gets focus. Also, in this mode, the focusing noise of the lens is only heard when you push the button.

My lens has an audible noise, mainly in Servo AF where the camera is always focusing. in AF-ON mode, its better because much infrequent. According to the reviews, STM lenses have no audible noise and they focus smoothly.

So, if you like to record games, not fully zoomed on faces, I think you'll be satisfied with the Servo AF with an STM lens. 55-250 STM is now available, try one because it has the coverage I think you need.

The sensitivity of the sensor is a bit better, but it doesn't matter for outdoor sports. Compared to the 5d3, you don't have Tv and Av modes on this camera, only AUTO and MANUAL. In AUTO, you cannot set ISO, in MANUAL, you need to set everything manually (but there is auto ISO). So, in MANUAL, you set the aperture to the desired, you set the shutter speed to 50 and you set auto ISO, it'll work fine.

Wow that sounds like exactly what I want.  I think I'll just stick with the 70-200 2.8 II that I use though; the weight isn't what I'm trying to get away from.  Having to rig something to have an external LCD screen and the zoom recorder and still be handheld (along with the focus hassle) is my problem right now.  I don't need to zoom on the face while their moving; I'd just be happy with close-ups either for my son batting or my daughter doing indoor gymnastics periodically when I'm not shooting a wider shot, which is most of the time.

Question for you - can I hit the AF/MF button to disengage the AF feature, and then re-enable it, all during the same "take"? Meaning if I'm tracking a moving subject and know it's going to be in one spot for a while, and I want 0 chance of the camera trying to refocus on another target entering the frame, can I do that? Let's use lions walking around in a zoo for example.  Or could I just use your aforementioned "manual" autofocus then?

Thanks for your help.  I might even sell the 5d3 if this works out - I find myself rarely going about ISO 1600 and certainly could use more reach.  The problem is ML raw has made the video so gorgeous it'd be so hard to not have that as an option.  Plus winter's approaching (along with Halloween night; one of my favorite nights to shoot video) and I know I'll need the low light.  Sigh.  What to do.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: carlosmeldano on September 27, 2013, 01:38:00 PM
Question for you - can I hit the AF/MF button to disengage the AF feature, and then re-enable it, all during the same "take"? Meaning if I'm tracking a moving subject and know it's going to be in one spot for a while, and I want 0 chance of the camera trying to refocus on another target entering the frame, can I do that? Let's use lions walking around in a zoo for example.  Or could I just use your aforementioned "manual" autofocus then?

Thanks for your help.  I might even sell the 5d3 if this works out - I find myself rarely going about ISO 1600 and certainly could use more reach.  The problem is ML raw has made the video so gorgeous it'd be so hard to not have that as an option.  Plus winter's approaching (along with Halloween night; one of my favorite nights to shoot video) and I know I'll need the low light.  Sigh.  What to do.

I don't have a button on my lens, but on the bottom left of the touchscreen, the Servo AF button is available all the time while recording, so you can turn it on or off. If recording a longer session, you can turn it off when using manual autofocus and it won't automatically focus, and when you're done, you turn it back on, and continues servo autofocusing.

As for the ISO: it is an APS-C:) A videographer guy using 7D asked me to make a 100-12800 ISO noise test and he told that it's about 1 stop better than the 7D. It also has slightly better dynamic range. 70D also has ALL-I and IPB modes, if interested.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Shield on September 27, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
I don't have a button on my lens, but on the bottom left of the touchscreen, the Servo AF button is available all the time while recording, so you can turn it on or off. If recording a longer session, you can turn it off when using manual autofocus and it won't automatically focus, and when you're done, you turn it back on, and continues servo autofocusing.

As for the ISO: it is an APS-C:) A videographer guy using 7D asked me to make a 100-12800 ISO noise test and he told that it's about 1 stop better than the 7D. It also has slightly better dynamic range. 70D also has ALL-I and IPB modes, if interested.

Rented one for the weekend and I have it in my grubby little hands.  That 18-55 lens is way sharper than I expected it to be - will be a nice "here, wife" lens to give her.  So far I'm very impressed, and the place I rented it, if you decide to buy it, credits the rental cost towards the purchase of the camera.  The video obviously is nothing like ML raw, but very close to the 5d3's H264 (probably a tad sharper hence the moire).
I love how light it is, and if ML raw is ever available even at 720p for this it'd be super amazing.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on October 06, 2013, 06:05:10 AM
So dammit..., just got used to ML in my T4i (first pre-alpha and then the alpha), and now looking at the 70D solely for the weather sealing - where I shoot is ME deserts (fine dusty sand) to SE Asia (humidity) - and the vid capabilities. But without ML for it, it's like going backwards to me. I've become so used to having the WB and other flexibilities of ML, not sure I can go without? Already ruined a T3i because of the humidity and such, so taking the T4i again because of what I can do with it, also risks totally losing a camera. So..., who can I send a case of wine to for work on ML for 70D???
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on October 06, 2013, 10:54:33 AM
I've become so used to having the WB and other flexibilities of ML, not sure I can go without?

I couldn't, that (part of) why I only just bought the 6d now that ml is ready for it. The one day w/o ml on the 6d vs. my 60d felt like being in the stone age, you only then realize how crude the Canon fw really is.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Doyle4 on October 08, 2013, 07:37:52 PM
i think canon need to stop pushing out so many cameras, i cant keep up now.. and let the ML team make there firmwares for them from now on :P .... if only... Canon ML.... mmmmmmmmmmmm.

I also appreciate canon does not steal ML's findings and creative tweaks and making them their own like apple does by stealing Cyida tweaks... (please correct me if im wrong there if they have).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on October 09, 2013, 06:03:34 PM
All I have to say is, the Eos 70D is FANTASTIC! I have had it since it hit the stores, the day Henry's received their units. Nothing to dislike about it yet other than no digital zoom for stills during movie mode. There is digital zoom though and depending on your lens if the image is clear. When using MD adapter and lens it will be blured as I will not focus to infinity. Very fast and responsive though. Is everyone ready for their 40mp high end? Did anyone ever see Canon's WOUNDER cam?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on October 15, 2013, 06:27:13 AM
Well articulated and thought out reply. That's why this forum rocks, the people here are not so ego-based and are willing to help each other. Appreciate this everyone!

If I read correctly, you're interested in autofocus capabilities. I own this camera for ~2 weeks now, and I played a little with it. I use it with a 17-55 IS USM.

You can either use Servo AF (full automatic) in video mode (either with face tracking or simply a certain point), or you can turn it off and use focus by hand.

When using Servo AF, it zooms slower, more gradient, but accurate, no hunting. This is good for overall usage, and can track anything moving at "normal" speed. This cannot track very fast movements like full zoomed on a kid's face who's running around. But for wide, it's working perfectly. I read in a Canon paper that the engineers slowed down the focus change to have movie look, because it can perform much faster (see next option).

The other option is to turn Servo AF off and use manual autofocus. It means that the camera focuses to the place where the focus box is when you push the AF-ON button. This is very fast, almost instantly, no hunting. Not as fast as the conventional PDAF AF, but almost at fast, always < 1sec, usually ~0.5 secs. This is good when you're moving the camera and when you stand on a new object, push the button, and it gets focus. Also, in this mode, the focusing noise of the lens is only heard when you push the button.

My lens has an audible noise, mainly in Servo AF where the camera is always focusing. in AF-ON mode, its better because much infrequent. According to the reviews, STM lenses have no audible noise and they focus smoothly.

So, if you like to record games, not fully zoomed on faces, I think you'll be satisfied with the Servo AF with an STM lens. 55-250 STM is now available, try one because it has the coverage I think you need.

The sensitivity of the sensor is a bit better, but it doesn't matter for outdoor sports. Compared to the 5d3, you don't have Tv and Av modes on this camera, only AUTO and MANUAL. In AUTO, you cannot set ISO, in MANUAL, you need to set everything manually (but there is auto ISO). So, in MANUAL, you set the aperture to the desired, you set the shutter speed to 50 and you set auto ISO, it'll work fine.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: yaronwn on October 15, 2013, 10:35:26 PM

Question for you - can I hit the AF/MF button to disengage the AF feature, and then re-enable it, all during the same "take"? Meaning if I'm tracking a moving subject and know it's going to be in one spot for a while, and I want 0 chance of the camera trying to refocus on another target entering the frame, can I do that? Let's use lions walking around in a zoo for example.  Or could I just use your aforementioned "manual" autofocus then?


Hi
You can redefine a botton to be an "AF OFF" button and than, when you shoot in AF mode, if you don't want the camera to change focus automaticly, you press the button and it will stay focus on the last focus posision. The moment you relese that buton, the auto focus works again and refocus on the spot you are aiming.
It is much faster than pushing the screen and more convenient to use during a shot. You can make that button instead of the "AF ON" botton which is right next to your right thumb.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: animanus on October 16, 2013, 02:05:52 AM
wow, that sounds great
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Shield on October 20, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
Even better - after using the 70d for a while (and actually reading the manual):

If you change the back button "af-on" button to toggle AF, you still have to hold it down to disable AF in video mode.

But guess what?  The flash popup button?  By default this is AF on/off and it doesn't need to be held down!!!!  So slick...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on October 21, 2013, 12:02:14 AM
I couldn't, that (part of) why I only just bought the 6d now that ml is ready for it. The one day w/o ml on the 6d vs. my 60d felt like being in the stone age, you only then realize how crude the Canon fw really is.

Exactly! But what I use the Canon for is principally video now (though I started with my -old- Canon F1 as a photog back in the early 80's), so the articulating screen has become too valuable for me to give up for the high ISO and other bennies of the 6D. Had one for a week to test and was blown away. Just wish Canon would have given the 6D a screen that flipped, a FF sensor and flip screen..? Oh yeah..., I'd have that this INSTANT!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: dak20 on October 23, 2013, 02:21:23 PM
Hey, guys. When will the firmware for the 70D? Interested RAW video?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on October 24, 2013, 03:33:15 AM
Hey, guys. When will the firmware for the 70D? Interested RAW video?

The 70D just came out, people are still working on all the other Canon's that just came out (T4i, T5i, 5D3, etc.), so expect it'll take a while since someone also needs to donate a development 70D for people to work with and prob needs a FW update from Canon before development goes anywhere.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: dak20 on October 24, 2013, 09:22:03 AM
I have already exchanged their 550d on this new camera. There are auto-focus, it is now the same as Panasonic GH3. Now change all the old camera. It's fast to demand release a new firmware for RAW video. Who can tell the approximate date of manufacture.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on October 24, 2013, 09:45:57 AM
so expect it'll take a while since someone also needs to donate a development 70D for people to work with

Afaik that's not the problem (though I won't prevent anyone from donating a 70d :-p) - any dev who puts all the tremendous amount of time, energy and knowledge into porting ml probably will do it for his/her(anyone?) own camera, just I ended up adding features to my 6d because the stock Canon fw is so annoyingly crippled.

Just sending a 70d to someone saying "Here ye go, now spend at least half a year of unpaid work on it" most likely won't do the trick.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on October 31, 2013, 07:26:33 PM
28 continuous shots in jpeg using 300x class 10 sdhc 1 32gb Transcend card going to try a 600x pro card
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: painya on November 01, 2013, 04:58:10 AM
I have already exchanged their 550d on this new camera. There are auto-focus, it is now the same as Panasonic GH3. Now change all the old camera. It's fast to demand release a new firmware for RAW video. Who can tell the approximate date of manufacture.
In a way they keep all of the release dates for camera firmwares and such right at the bottom of this page http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/faq
In another way they don't, but it's all about perspective. That page is a good read though ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D dual pixel offered on the C100
Post by: globalphotobank on November 06, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/canon-to-offer-dual-pixel-cmos-af-upgrade-for-the-eos-c100-digital-video-camera/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canonrumors%2Frss+%28Canon+Rumors%29&utm_content=FaceBook

Canon offers dual pixel to the C100 WHAAAAT?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on December 06, 2013, 06:03:50 PM
Hi everyone. I sold my 60d & purchased the 70d. I would like to help ML make the 70d RAW video capable, like the 60d.

I was happy with the 60d but struggled to keep things in focus. The 70d certainly fixed that. With the STM lens there's little if any focus noise. All other lenses seem quite noisy but not jittery like all other Canon DSLRs. Can't wait to see how it will work with RAW video!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: xoral on January 03, 2014, 10:55:09 PM
I tried the burst mode shooting jpeg at the higher resolution and took my finger off the button at 80 shots and it wasn't slowing down at all.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: xoral on January 05, 2014, 09:41:39 PM
I tried the RAW burst shooting and with a lexar 400 32gig card I got a total of 17 shots before it stopped and 15 of them were at full speed. I don't know if this is relevant or not but that's what I got.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on January 06, 2014, 09:31:56 PM
xoral - Were you using ML with a 70d or some other Canon?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: hionhifi on January 07, 2014, 01:09:38 AM
I too am waiting for Magic Lantern RAW. I'd be happy with just Magic Lantern for now though.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility) / SD Controller
Post by: keule92x on January 24, 2014, 11:09:48 AM
Just a thought: Since the 70D is able to shoot All-I with up to 100mbps it has to have a faster controller than the 650D or 60D, right? If that's true, we might see higher resolutions for raw when it is released (which I hope it to be some day soon ;) )
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on January 24, 2014, 03:51:06 PM
I wonder how different the codes are from the 60d to the 70d.  I'm sure they are but how much would need to be re-written?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on February 06, 2014, 05:28:26 PM
After owning this camera for several months now, I can say MAGIC LANTERN WILL be killer on this model, ESPECIALLY in the video end of it. The tracking is supremo no extra gear needed. Works like a video camera does. Can you imagine the possibilities with Magic lantern installed. Dual ISO and boosted dynamic range. WOW!!! it's gonna be F"IN AWESOME.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on February 06, 2014, 05:36:27 PM
Hope to see a zoom crop while recording video, like the Olympus om-d em-1 It's called rolling crop (crop while rolling) not just zooming to fine tune focus.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on February 06, 2014, 07:45:50 PM
I wonder how different the codes are from the 60d to the 70d.

Probably as different as other digic4->digic5 model changes, so that's covered by 6d/5d3.

I'm sure they are but how much would need to be re-written?

That's not the problem, of course its about the .fir & finding the fw addresses, but as far as I've seen ML on the 6d the real issues are the *small* changes because always something doesn't quite work as on other cameras, and everything needs to be double-checked. So what you need is not one of the big devs, but someone with "ok" coding skills but a lot of time on his/her hands.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on February 08, 2014, 03:50:03 PM
Marsu42,
Sorry, I don't know coding skills but can help in other ways.  Perhaps doing an A-B comparison between codes to find differences is something I can do as I have a background in troubleshooting.  I'm willing to help.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on February 08, 2014, 07:46:57 PM
Sorry, I don't know coding skills but can help in other ways.

Alpha testers who have enough time to really try new features & are able to do proper bug reporting are always wanted. Still, that doesn't change the fact that on most cameras (that alex doesn't have :-)) coding is required, and people with knowledge *and* spare time *and* who work for free seem to be rare :-p
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on February 27, 2014, 03:45:08 PM
Alpha testers who have enough time to really try new features & are able to do proper bug reporting are always wanted. Still, that doesn't change the fact that on most cameras (that alex doesn't have :-)) coding is required, and people with knowledge *and* spare time *and* who work for free seem to be rare :-p
I've got time (retired) & I don't want money (retired) but do own a 70d with a nice assortment of lenses :-)). The 70d uses Firmware Version 1.1.1, the same as the 60d. I know they are not the same camera but it would seem there are similarities enough to get something started.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on February 27, 2014, 04:18:56 PM
I know they are not the same camera but it would seem there are similarities enough to get something started.

Most likely the 70d is more similar to digic5 6d/5d3/700d than digic4 60d. But it's great to hear you're volunteering to maintaining it, and I'm sure one of the devs will pm you a dev kit to get you started to find the necessary information to have a 70d .fir!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Jakobmen on February 27, 2014, 04:51:44 PM
looking forward to this.. the autofocus is a beast on the canon 70D.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on February 27, 2014, 10:11:45 PM
looking forward to this...

Me, too! +1  :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: fredoo on March 01, 2014, 12:29:37 AM
Hey,

I am also a very satisfied 70D owner and ready to dive into ML Dev to start making progress for this great camera !

Shall we start a proper thread for this camera ML firmware and share about the next steps to be worked on ?

What are the initial steps to be done to get started ?

Has someone taken the initiative to lead the project already ?

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: dmilligan on March 01, 2014, 04:47:40 AM
You need to get a firmware dump from the camera. a1ex or nanomad can help you get started with that.

Also a good idea to get the toolchain setup and make sure you can compile ML. Start looking at the source as well, it's a large complicated code base and there's a steep learning curve.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on March 01, 2014, 04:25:29 PM
You need to get a firmware dump from the camera. a1ex or nanomad can help you get started with that.

Also a good idea to get the toolchain setup and make sure you can compile ML. Start looking at the source as well, it's a large complicated code base and there's a steep learning curve.

The firmware for 70d is the same as the 60d, v1.1.1. I wonder if the current ML version for the 60d would work on the 70d, but, as Marsu42 points out, the 70d uses Digic5, not Digic4 as in the 60d. There are differences but what?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 01, 2014, 04:28:26 PM
The firmware for 70d is the same as the 60d, v1.1.1.

There are two persons named Alan Smith. Are they identical, too?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: dmilligan on March 01, 2014, 04:36:06 PM
Version numbers are unique to each camera. So 1.1.1 on two different cameras don't mean that the version is the 'same'
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on March 01, 2014, 05:12:32 PM
There are two persons named Alan Smith. Are they identical, too?
Of course they are different... one's a 70d, the other is 60d! ;D Canon support doesn't list any firmware version for the 70d. I only stated the firmware are the same. I'm sure "close, but no cigar" would apply as well!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Stedda on March 01, 2014, 05:23:22 PM
Even if they were the same which they're not you still need a dedicated developer with a 70D that is willing to take the time to do the task. The Devs are working on the cameras they own themselves the firmware is just the starting point.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on March 01, 2014, 06:20:49 PM
Even if they were the same which they're not you still need a dedicated developer with a 70D that is willing to take the time to do the task. The Devs are working on the cameras they own themselves the firmware is just the starting point.

Understood. I'm sure it's not a simple fix & did not intend to imply that it was. I admire what developers do & I'm amazed they have accomplished so much with so many different cameras. No one should take their skills for granted.
I only shoot photos in RAW & can't wait to see what the 70d can do with RAW video! 8)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on March 02, 2014, 01:57:51 AM
Understood. I'm sure it's not a simple fix & did not intend to imply that it was. I admire what developers do & I'm amazed they have accomplished so much with so many different cameras. No one should take their skills for granted.
I only shoot photos in RAW & can't wait to see what the 70d can do with RAW video! 8)

That's why I'm prob selling the 70D as soon as I get my hands on a GH4. Have had Canon's since my manual F1 in 1981 (aside from having to use Nikon F4's shooting for an org in the 90's), but truthfully, Canon's a bit behind now with video and with what the Pana can do (according to sources anyway) with vid, I'll jump on that one as soon as I can. ML won't be out for the 70D before the Pana arrives, that's a fact. I miss many things that I had with ML and the T3i/T4i, but as all things go, keeping up with the times and DSLR vid (incl 4k and raw) is where things are now. Not waiting till the 70D is obsolete for RAW vid to be available. Canon could have done that. They didn't. Others are heading there, I'll follow.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on March 02, 2014, 03:10:37 PM
That's why I'm prob selling the 70D as soon as I get my hands on a GH4. Have had Canon's since my manual F1 in 1981 (aside from having to use Nikon F4's shooting for an org in the 90's), but truthfully, Canon's a bit behind now with video and with what the Pana can do (according to sources anyway) with vid, I'll jump on that one as soon as I can. ML won't be out for the 70D before the Pana arrives, that's a fact. I miss many things that I had with ML and the T3i/T4i, but as all things go, keeping up with the times and DSLR vid (incl 4k and raw) is where things are now. Not waiting till the 70D is obsolete for RAW vid to be available. Canon could have done that. They didn't. Others are heading there, I'll follow.

I don't think Canon will ever develop RAW video for lower cost DSLRs.  The truth is Canon markets their product line in such a way for consumers to have a reason to purchase their more expensive products. Canon, as with any manufacture, will compete only enough as they need to; always trying to appear just ahead of other competitors, but saving some newer tech out for next years, more advanced better-than-ever-before model. The good folks here at ML have created a monster of sorts by opening our eyes to something better.

The Panasonic GH4 looks great but I'm not seeing RAW video support. Are you sure it does RAW video? As for myself, I did consider the GH3(?) before seeing what the 70d could do. I consider myself photo first, then video as a plus. I have over the years invested in several EF lenses so that makes switching brands harder, too. Best of luck to you!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 02, 2014, 08:03:09 PM
I don't think Canon will ever develop RAW video for lower cost DSLRs.

Imho Canon does what the market demands while maximizing profits, nothing more, nothing less. So if serious dslr competition adds raw, they will, at for lower resolutions & if they have upgraded their sd card controllers by then. But I don't expect this to happen in the next 2-3 camera generations, so not before 5 years from now.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: GARoss on March 03, 2014, 12:06:17 AM
Imho Canon does what the market demands while maximizing profits, nothing more, nothing less. So if serious dslr competition adds raw, they will, at for lower resolutions & if they have upgraded their sd card controllers by then. But I don't expect this to happen in the next 2-3 camera generations, so not before 5 years from now.

It's a pity... but sadly true. After all, Canon only improved video AF on DSLRs (EOS 70d) to answer mirrorless design's video AF advantage. It now appears they will add this feature to a newer MK5 IV(?), which is great. Competition works! But, it wouldn't surprise me to see RAW video on mirrorless cameras first as it seems that they are more leading edge these days. The video specs on the Panasonic GH4 are spectacular. True 4k video @ 100mbs + LPCM audio? Wow, they are serious!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on March 03, 2014, 04:08:45 AM
May be dumping my 70D for the pani  :-\ ;D as well. Knowing what the G3 was like and now the 4, and the 4 with future improvements, might just be the be all. Come on Canon step up with improvements.  :-[ ML has be awesome, you guys kick ass.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on March 19, 2014, 06:17:51 PM
Still watching and waiting for development. ;D ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: eLem3ntx on March 20, 2014, 08:55:12 AM
Yep ;) something new out there?
Just about to buy the 70d but only with ML. Using it on the 600D and makes the cam awesome!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on March 21, 2014, 04:32:17 AM
Yep ;) something new out there?
Just about to buy the 70d but only with ML. Using it on the 600D and makes the cam awesome!

I would not hold my breath. It will be quite a long while for ML for the 70D. I tested the pre-Alpha on the 650D and that made it a REAL camera. Sell the 600 and get a 650 if you can find one, but avoid the 70D if you're buying it for ML. These guys are busting ass on as many fronts as they can and until Canon comes out with a FW update and a developer comes up with a 70D to hack, we're just gonna have to wait. Wish there was something us common folk can do to help things along, but there really isn't and constantly asking when it's coming probably gets tiring to these guys.

If there was something that people like us can do, something tangible and real and that helps ML along for the 70D, I know we'd all jump on that ship this second!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on March 21, 2014, 10:54:48 AM
I'm grabbing my 70D today, I'm not sure how many things from ML I'll be missing, but if there will be something I could do (I mean something which will not destroy my brand new camera;) ) to help with the development to this dslr, then please tell.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on March 21, 2014, 12:17:13 PM
I used ML on a 60D, never once did I hesitate. My 60 was stolen with the memory card ect ML goes onto the memory card and in my opinion I would put it on my 70D with out hesitation, because anything that just gets loaded on to a card, really cant destroy a camera. I simply took out the card and battery one time when i received an error, That was it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Jakobmen on March 21, 2014, 12:56:21 PM
I tried to do it, time is not on my side to learn coding.  we should buy one for alex..  8) http://j.mp/PXcR5H
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on March 24, 2014, 08:03:39 PM
I tried to do it, time is not on my side to learn coding.  we should buy one for alex..  8) http://j.mp/PXcR5H

Might be well worth it if enough people understand how valuable their camera's are with ML and how much more expanded its capabilities are and we can all pitch in a certain amount to get him one. And the few cases of beer it might take to sway his attention to this instead of the stupid 5D and all... :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 25, 2014, 07:31:47 AM
I tried to do it, time is not on my side to learn coding.  we should buy one for alex..

Afaik he doesn't want to maintain all cameras himself. He also wasn't interested in a sponsored 6d as the ml devs mainly do the coding for themselves and he already has a superior 5d3. Maintaining another camera like 70d would be a lot of hassle, and €1000 as a "payment" for months of qualified work is of course out of the question.

Face it, you most likely won't get ML to the 70d just by coughing up some $$$ but only by finding a qualified, motivated platform maintainer :-o or maybe you can try your luck with someone else than alex.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on March 25, 2014, 08:32:18 AM
I may be willing to help, but I unfortunately can't afford a 70D nor do I feel the need to.

If you guys agree I can have a look at the firmware to at least guess the feasibility of the port.
I need a cr2 taken with it and uploaded somewhere
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 25, 2014, 10:20:10 AM
I may be willing to help, but I unfortunately can't afford a 70D nor do I feel the need to.

Actually I was really thinking of you, looking at how much work you put into ml and how cheap your gear is, you should either get a job :-p or apply for a sponsorship ... with a camera as moderately priced as the 70d, it shouldn't be too difficult to get the $$$ together. You just would need to pledge to port ML and be the 70d maintainer for (insert timeframe here).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: sydneybreeze.com on March 25, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
I have a 70D and can get you the fw dump if you guys have some basic instructions for me.

Plus I'd be willing to put down 1/3 of the cost of a 70D. Someone else with me on this?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on March 25, 2014, 06:08:23 PM
Turns out I already got all I need to get the port started without a camera. But thanks for the dump offer
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 25, 2014, 06:31:10 PM
Turns out I already got all I need to get the port started without a camera.

With this kind of attitude, no wonder you're still stuck with a 1100d :-p

But thanks for the dump offer

Btw sharing roms w/o the recipient owning the camera is something we never do here. ever. really :->
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on March 26, 2014, 05:37:12 AM
Turns out I already got all I need to get the port started without a camera. But thanks for the dump offer

Can we send you a case of Guinness perhaps?? :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on March 26, 2014, 09:48:16 AM
Turns out I already got all I need to get the port started without a camera. But thanks for the dump offer

nanomad, a lot of people will be sincerely grateful. 70D great camera. Its autofocus in video mode is awesome. If the opportunity arises to install ML and shoot RAW without pink dots this is just a phenomenal experience.
translated using Google translator, sorry :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on March 26, 2014, 02:18:54 PM
 :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Jakobmen on March 28, 2014, 05:37:16 AM

nanomad, a lot of people will be sincerely grateful. 70D great camera. Its autofocus in video mode is awesome. If the opportunity arises to install ML and shoot RAW without pink dots this is just a phenomenal experience.
translated using Google translator, sorry :)

Thanks nanomad
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: sydneybreeze.com on March 28, 2014, 10:30:57 AM
Thanks nanomad. Make sure to let us know if there's anything we can help you out with.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: satriani on March 28, 2014, 11:35:00 AM
nanomad is as always ready to help
Good guy :D and I'm ready to help you if you need it ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Jakobmen on March 28, 2014, 02:27:02 PM
nanomad is as always ready to help
Good guy :D and I'm ready to help you if you need it ;)

please =)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on March 28, 2014, 10:25:18 PM
Canon c100 gets the dual pixel censor upgrade same as the 70D check out the hands on review. Now to make the 70D similar to the c100.
http://philipbloom.net/2014/03/28/c100autofocus/
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on March 29, 2014, 04:58:46 PM
So, little status update on the 70D:
Good news first:
  - Got most of the stubs
  - Got some constants

Bad news:
  - Audio API has changed once more. This time stubs hardly match.
  - We probably need new hooks to hide some canon stuff in LV

Right now all is left needs a camera for more than a couple of hours. I'll probably push the 70D branch next week but I doubt it will be in a usable state (maybe hello world of a bit further than that)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on March 29, 2014, 06:37:14 PM
nanomad is as always ready to help
Good guy :D and I'm ready to help you if you need it ;)
Well, thank God, will be a good team!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: solafson on March 29, 2014, 07:33:22 PM
Go Nomad!  I will send you a bottle of whatever you drink.

I'm ready to buy another 70D body as a second camera for video... RAW would be delightful!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: NonScio on March 29, 2014, 07:49:46 PM
So what's the deal?

Is there a fund to donate to for the 70D RAW?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 29, 2014, 09:07:15 PM
So, little status update on the 70D

Reading this it's certainly good new, but I cannot help but mention that "hello world" is nowhere near a working ML - this was also available on SL1 and later abandoned. I don't advise anyone to buy a 70d expecting ML in the near future.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on March 30, 2014, 12:18:51 AM
I recommend it especially when you get focusing as equal to the C100 now, I have used the 70D for 5 months or so now and focus is fast accurate and super quiet with the STM lenses.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: sydneybreeze.com on March 31, 2014, 02:51:18 AM
Great to hear that things are beginning to move!

As mentioned above, willing to put down a third of the cost of a 70d to help make this happen. How shall we organise the rest of the fundraiser?

cheers

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: k3r7 on March 31, 2014, 06:58:10 AM
I'm happy!! I will waiting this  :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 31, 2014, 11:36:00 AM
I'm happy!! I will waiting this  :D

You're happy that your camera might print "Hello, world!" on screen sooner or later? Well, talking of humble and realistic expectations :-p
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: satriani on March 31, 2014, 11:50:06 AM
Not so pessimistic, maybe something will come of it ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Pelican on March 31, 2014, 12:16:09 PM
You're happy that your camera might print "Hello, world!" on screen sooner or later? Well, talking of humble and realistic expectations :-p
Why are you so sarcastic? All the ML port started with a Hello word! screen...  :)

Nanomad: make paypal account and the 70D owners can start to collect the money for a 70D for you.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 31, 2014, 12:52:21 PM
Why are you so sarcastic? All the ML port started with a Hello word! screen...  :)

The reason is that after the recent SL1 discussion, I don't think it's in ML's best interest to generate too high expectations too early, and reading the above people don't seem to realize how long it might take from "hello world" to "usable".

Also in other forums like CR this quickly ends up in "why don't these ml schmucks deliver a stable version for my xyz already!?", plus I feel a bit sorry for people buying model abc expecting good ol' ML to be available soon.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Pelican on March 31, 2014, 01:44:43 PM
The reason is that after the recent SL1 discussion, I don't think it's in ML's best interest to generate too high expectations too early, and reading the above people don't seem to realize how long it might take from "hello world" to "usable".

Also in other forums like CR this quickly ends up in "why don't these ml schmucks deliver a stable version for my xyz already!?", plus I feel a bit sorry for people buying model abc expecting good ol' ML to be available soon.
I bet it will be ready sooner then the ML for my 7D which took 3 years... :) 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: k3r7 on March 31, 2014, 02:36:44 PM
Shh, shh   :D. 5D mark III took faster than 7D.. I know, that 70D would be longer than 7D  :-\
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 31, 2014, 02:38:02 PM
I bet it will be ready sooner then the ML for my 7D which took 3 years... :)

Well, but this was because the boot mechanism was a mystery, otherwise the 7d seems to be rather digic4 ... but with the 70d, who knows what Canon has cooked up (new dual pixel af, obviously new audio api, ...). But good you're mentioning it as another proof that "hello world" is nowhere near ready.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Audionut on March 31, 2014, 03:25:08 PM
I may be willing to help, but I unfortunately can't afford a 70D nor do I feel the need to.

If you guys agree I can have a look at the firmware to at least guess the feasibility of the port.

I took this to mean that nanomad wasn't going to do the development of the port, simply, determine the feasibility of the port, and lay down the groundwork for another developer to take over.

Between the forums, his paying job, his current development workload, family, and whatever else I don't know about, that seems fairly reasonable to me.  *shrugs shoulders*

Also in other forums like CR this quickly ends up in "why don't these ml schmucks deliver a stable version for my xyz already!?"

This will happen, somewhere, sometime, no matter what direction ML takes.  ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on March 31, 2014, 05:53:58 PM
Between the forums, his paying job, his current development workload, family, and whatever else I don't know about, that seems fairly reasonable to me.  *shrugs shoulders*

It was more like a "duh, let's check if we can do it before going the donations route ", but your observation is spot on.
Let's say I take on starting the port by getting a camera donated by the community. Whoever decides to donate must bear in mind that a speedy or even a successful port is not guaranteed. Not even having an actual "hello world" running on the camera guarantees it.

Truth be told, I'm more interested in playing with the WiFi capability than anything else (Did you say online module repository and installer?). The 70D will for sure bring some changes in how we handle some conflicts between Canon UI and ML and having a somewhat clean port will take time

That being said, shoot me a PM with subject "70D Donation" if you are still willing to donate under the above terms
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 31, 2014, 06:21:00 PM
Truth be told, I'm more interested in playing with the WiFi capability than anything else

Excellent idea, I advise you to buy a 6d with wifi and become the new 6d maintainer which will solve a lot of current problems (well, mine anyway) :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on March 31, 2014, 06:26:40 PM
And leave all the fine 70D folks out in the cold? Me not likes it

How about I teach you how to maintain the 6D port? It's not an issue if you are a complete novice. We've all been.

I was thinking of doing the port using a blog to track down every action I do, and having at least one follower doing the same things would help quite a bit
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on March 31, 2014, 06:33:41 PM
How about I teach you how to maintain the 6D port? It's not an issue if you are a complete novice. We've all been.

You could teach me how to extend my 24h day to 30 hours and need 6h sleep instead of 8, then I'll do it :-> ... no, really, with me it's all about allocating my resources. If I do something for ML beyond writing smart forum posts :-p it's coding usability modules (currently in the works: auto_iso, hot_keys, mini_c (link ML & Canon settings to dial & add some presets)).

What I would sign though is that getting stable-ish ports on the existing platforms should come before adding new "hello, world" cameras to the mix unless some dedicated maintainer for something pops up.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 01, 2014, 04:42:43 AM
I recommend it especially when you get focusing as equal to the C100 now, I have used the 70D for 5 months or so now and focus is fast accurate and super quiet with the STM lenses.

Ditto. And using a glidecam, having AF capability such as this, is unreal. At F/1.8 and ECU walking shots, I get world-class focus that I never could trying to pull manually (virtually impossible with a glidecam). People think these are dolly shots with a follow focus.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 01, 2014, 04:44:57 AM
Excellent idea, I advise you to buy a 6d with wifi and become the new 6d maintainer which will solve a lot of current problems (well, mine anyway) :-)

WIFI is a toy, for me. I can use with my smart phone, but NOT with a lappy. That's how Canon designed it. WTF? So if you want control from your laptop, it's tethered with USB. No WIFI for lap except photo saving (BFD).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 01, 2014, 07:24:28 AM
WIFI is a toy, for me. I can use with my smart phone, but NOT with a lappy.

It doesn't work at all with a laptop?! I only tried for a few minutes and then figured I'm just too dumb and didn't want to read the manual :-p ... but there is some infrastructure mode, isn't there?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Mars67 on April 01, 2014, 04:46:13 PM
If you want to link the camera with the laptop it is possible to link using the EOS Utility but you have to connect both the camera and the laptop through a Wifi router not directly like using the EOS app on the iPhone or iPad.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on April 01, 2014, 08:06:43 PM
If you want to link the camera with the laptop it is possible to link using the EOS Utility but you have to connect both the camera and the laptop through a Wifi router not directly like using the EOS app on the iPhone or iPad.

It works, but you need to manually start program WFTPairing on the PC, in my case I had to run this as administrator and also I had to run WFT FirewallSettings to make it working. I don't think that this thing is in the manual though:P
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 01, 2014, 08:27:23 PM
It works, but you need to manually start program WFTPairing on the PC, in my case I had to run this as administrator and also I had to run WFT FirewallSettings to make it working. I don't think that this thing is in the manual though:P

Can you describe the exact procedure? I also started wtfpairing on my laptop, but could not get the camera to connect :-o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 01, 2014, 09:02:39 PM
If you want to link the camera with the laptop it is possible to link using the EOS Utility but you have to connect both the camera and the laptop through a Wifi router not directly like using the EOS app on the iPhone or iPad.

Right, you have to use a router, not directly to lap. You CAN link directly to your cell without data or a router. So I can show a customer a screen remotely from my phone, but not the lap if we're in the field. Canon designed it so you MUST go through a router with a laptop. STUPID!! WTF if you're in the field somewhere? And why make it so a phone can connect through their EOS Remote program, but not to a laptop the same way? So you have to be tethered with USB or indirectly connect through a router. I just don't get it...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on April 01, 2014, 10:05:35 PM
Can you describe the exact procedure? I also started wtfpairing on my laptop, but could not get the camera to connect :-o

Sure, hope this will help. On camera it's pretty straightforward - go to wifi menu, select wifi function->Remote control (EOS Utility) and follow on screen information to connect to your router until you see the message "start pairing devices". Dont click OK yet!

Then on PC go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Canon\EOS Utility\WFTPairing\ (or different if you installed somewhere else ofc), right click on WFT FirewallSettings, select "run as administrator". Next in the same way run as administrator WFTPairing. Now click OK in the camera to start pairing and in that program you should see after a few seconds your camera.  If you don't keep the WFTPairing window active and on camera press Cancel and OK to start pairing once again.
At least it worked for me just now (I did the procedure writing it down).

Also I first connect to camera with the WFTPairing, and after that I start EOS Utility (I keep EOS Utility not running during pairing).

//EDIT:
Damn, I've found out that I'm unable (yet) to connect to the PC using the saved settings, it seems like I need to go through the whole procedure of creating settings set to connect to the PC, what a disaster from Canon...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Smarty Pants on April 02, 2014, 02:25:52 AM
can I emphasise to any of the devs that all we really need ML for on the 70D at the moment is to allow the use of headphones
I understand how much work a full port is but that's all we need, wants and dreams can wait(raw vid etc can wait till dev time is an option)

I'd be happy to pay £10 to be able to monitor audio (i'm sure there are at least 100 70d owners who need just this feature, £1000 for a few days work must be tempting, there could be 1000 owners....)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on April 02, 2014, 09:05:56 AM
can I emphasise to any of the devs that all we really need ML for on the 70D at the moment is to allow the use of headphones
I understand how much work a full port is but that's all we need, wants and dreams can wait(raw vid etc can wait till dev time is an option)

I'd be happy to pay £10 to be able to monitor audio (i'm sure there are at least 100 70d owners who need just this feature, £1000 for a few days work must be tempting, there could be 1000 owners....)


Aprill fools day was yesterday man... How do you imagine this would work?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 02, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
Everything is doable provided enough time and a developer with a camera.

What connectors does the camera have externally? I guess there's no headphone out right?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on April 02, 2014, 09:57:28 AM
Everything is doable provided enough time and a developer with a camera.

What connectors does the camera have externally? I guess there's no headphone out right?

No, there is no headphone out. We've got HDMI out, USB (with integrated video-out) and mic-in. I assume that mic-in is physically not suitable for that application, so we are left with HDMI or video-out for this. Maybe dev will tell us if thats even theoretically possible with ML:)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 02, 2014, 12:42:00 PM
 yes, it should be possible to route audio via the usb/av port.
It's not something that is doable in a short time frame though. We don't even know the maker of the chip
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on April 02, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
yes, it should be possible to route audio via the usb/av port.
It's not something that is doable in a short time frame though. We don't even know the maker of the chip

You're a magician, you know?:)


Btw. I've placed inquiry about the wifi pairing problem with the PC to Polish Canon support yesterday and I've received the answer, that they are aware of the problem, but the only solution is to go through the creator in the camera every time you want to pair the camera to the PC. Pro canon support to $1k body:)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on April 02, 2014, 10:52:05 PM
there are tutorials on youtube for the audio out to head phones ive done it and it works.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 03, 2014, 02:33:33 AM
No, there is no headphone out. We've got HDMI out, USB (with integrated video-out) and mic-in. I assume that mic-in is physically not suitable for that application, so we are left with HDMI or video-out for this. Maybe dev will tell us if thats even theoretically possible with ML:)

Am I missing something here? Seems like anyone who cares enough about audio to live monitor it will be recording with a field recorder, minimum, which all have audio out for headphones? In-camera audio on DSLR's has never been usable for much more than syncing, so why bother monitoring it?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: ShootMeAlready on April 08, 2014, 04:34:34 AM
At some point, the folks at ML will have to start End Of Life, support for certain cameras.  Too much new stuff folks want to use.
Not that I am an expert but here is the whittle down list ...
600D/T3i is the cheapest, HD 1080p camera, with both 3X zoom & swivel LCD.  Still best value for low budget film.
Then there is the 7D which is fastest sports camera (8 fps). Trap focus / valometer for the wild life shooters.
Then there is the 70D, which is the only AF camera with 3X zoom & swivel LCD.  It probably needs the least in terms of existing ML features, basically all that matters is RAW video and arguably HDR video.
6d - poor mans FF, definitely has legs.
5 MarkIII, the best FF  raw camera.

But after this short list, I don't see any crucial cameras that will have legs for more adopters,
in terms of going forward at this point.  JM2C.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 08, 2014, 06:48:16 AM
At some point, the folks at ML will have to start End Of Life, support for certain cameras. Too much new stuff folks want to use.

Well argued, the devs and contributors should stop working on the cameras they own but go forward into a new age, starting by adding ML support to the 70d!

At least this would be how it works if ML would be a commercial project, trying to satisfy as many new customers as possible. But it isn't. It started as a project of folks (5d2 video, Rebel stills) to add features to their existing cameras in their spare time. If no one has a 550d anymore, it might be unmaintained some time, but no sooner than that.

Why am I writing this? If you think ML for your 70d is only a matter of the amount of units sold by Canon, you'll be disappointed when strangely ML doesn't make the move asap. Actually the reverse can also be argued: Better manage to get real stable ML versions for the existing cameras first and tell people to buy those if they want a working ML now or in the near future.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 08, 2014, 08:49:43 AM
Once more, there's no ML for the 70D because no Dev has it.
And dropping support for old cameras makes no sense since most of ML is camera agnostic. At worst older model won't get new features if no one finds the relevant stubs or adapt the code.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 08, 2014, 09:15:15 AM
colleagues, I think that everyone understands that it is necessary to start collecting money to buy body for Dev. Does anyone have experience in similar projects?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 08, 2014, 09:17:48 AM
I offered to do it myself or at least to act as an escrow if someone else wants to do it. Si far no one has replied to my request to send me a PM if willing to contribute. I do restate my offer though.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 08, 2014, 09:38:56 AM
I am willing to help financially (as possible) Maybe you want to start a new topic? Announce The funds collection. A vote to see the number of people interested?
Я готов помочь финансово (насколько это возможно)
Может необходимо начать новый топик? Анонсировать сбор средст.  Провести голосование, чтобы увидеть количество заинтересованных людей?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 08, 2014, 11:06:15 AM
I offered to do it myself or at least to act as an escrow if someone else wants to do it.

There seems to be some confusion about your offer, so I'd like to state how I read it: You won't do it yourself even if you get a free camera, but you're willing to provide some general guidance to someone else.

How valuable that is depends on the skill of the potential dev, and since no one shouted "me!" yet it's likely a new dev would come outside of the community - meaning he/she would not only have to do the 70d port but learn the whole other ML stuff as well.

I'd really like to have ML on all cameras, but as I struggled with a rather shaky port when I got my 60d and now even the 6d port is only so-so I cannot help but stress the fact to potential 70d buyers: There is no camera and no dev and no hello world, essentially there is no nothing atm and there is no indication that this is going to change in the near future.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 08, 2014, 11:11:48 AM
You got it wrong.

I'm willing to do the port myself. Full stop :)

Unless someone else steps up to do it, then I'll gladly step aside and provide guidance when needed

But yes, stressing that at this point the 70D port is not even close is a good thing to do. For all we know it may take time (A couple of months at least I'd say) to have something that can be defined as "kinda usable"
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 08, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
nanomad been developing for ML 650D.
When I had the 650D ML worked perfectly!
I believe that with the 70D nanomad cope!
наномад занимался разработкой МЛ для 650Д.
Когда я имел 650Д МЛ работал отлично!
Я верю что и с 70Д наномад справится!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 08, 2014, 03:47:02 PM
You got it wrong. I'm willing to do the port myself. Full stop :)

Great, I'm happy for all 70d owners and the ML project, and good thing I asked - I believe this part was not 100% clear :-p
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on April 08, 2014, 05:47:59 PM
70D has HDR, double /5 exposures
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: sydneybreeze.com on April 09, 2014, 11:12:23 PM
I offered to do it myself or at least to act as an escrow if someone else wants to do it. Si far no one has replied to my request to send me a PM if willing to contribute. I do restate my offer though.


I have just pm'd nanomad that I stand by my offer to contribute 1/3 of the cost of a 70D body. I invite you guys to join!

I understand there can be no guarantees, but that's life. If you want this to happen, sharing in a minor portion of the cost is the least you can do. Most of the resources will come from nanomad anyways, via his time and opportunity cost to take on this project.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 10, 2014, 08:05:11 AM

I have just pm'd nanomad that I stand by my offer to contribute 1/3 of the cost of a 70D body. I invite you guys to join!

I understand there can be no guarantees, but that's life. If you want this to happen, sharing in a minor portion of the cost is the least you can do. Most of the resources will come from nanomad anyways, via his time and opportunity cost to take on this project.
I have pm'd nanomad too. Unfortunately, I'm not as rich as you ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 11, 2014, 05:35:55 AM

I have just pm'd nanomad that I stand by my offer to contribute 1/3 of the cost of a 70D body. I invite you guys to join!

I understand there can be no guarantees, but that's life. If you want this to happen, sharing in a minor portion of the cost is the least you can do. Most of the resources will come from nanomad anyways, via his time and opportunity cost to take on this project.

Let's hope Marsu42 is wrong: "...Just sending a 70d to someone saying "Here ye go, now spend at least half a year of unpaid work on it" most likely won't do the trick."
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: siloxr on April 12, 2014, 05:27:26 AM
I'm willing to post some money (and am about to send the PM about such), but out of curiosity, is there a reason we are outright purchasing a 70d when around $55 can get a dev a week or so with the camera?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 12, 2014, 06:38:43 AM
I'm willing to post some money (and am about to send the PM about such), but out of curiosity, is there a reason we are outright purchasing a 70d when around $55 can get a dev a week or so with the camera?

A body he can return if he bricks it?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 12, 2014, 10:00:43 AM
I'm willing to post some money (and am about to send the PM about such), but out of curiosity, is there a reason we are outright purchasing a 70d when around $55 can get a dev a week or so with the camera?

The main reason is that a week would accomplish nothing. The expected timeframe for having something that's usable is a couple of months *at least* . Take a look at all the other ports. There's still stuff that needs to be done almost a year after it has been declared as usable

With easter coming up, I'm thinking of collecting donations offers for another week or so before deciding what to do.  There's a form available to fill out if you are thinking of contributing (financially or not). Send me a PM if you are interested.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: bilgebay on April 12, 2014, 05:25:51 PM
Nanomad, pm sent regarding my possible contribution towards funding the purchase of a 70D body.

Hope this helps.

You guys are wonderful and big asset to the community!

Sedat
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: siloxr on April 12, 2014, 07:54:14 PM
The main reason is that a week would accomplish nothing. The expected timeframe for having something that's usable is a couple of months *at least* . Take a look at all the other ports. There's still stuff that needs to be done almost a year after it has been declared as usable

With easter coming up, I'm thinking of collecting donations offers for another week or so before deciding what to do.  There's a form available to fill out if you are thinking of contributing (financially or not). Send me a PM if you are interested.
Fair enough.   I'm entirely ignorant of the actual process and assumed that might be enough to get someone started.

 That said, I will happily contribute double or even triple the 144 euros I said in the survey,  but after that initial 144 it might be a few weeks before I can spare the rest. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: bilgebay on April 12, 2014, 10:57:17 PM
Let me post one more time today.

I'm using qDSLRDashboard with great success on my 70D and 6D. This is a cross platform  app. I'm using it on my Android tablet for wirelessly controlling the camera. You can find the app here --> http://dslrdashboard.info.

The previous but Android only version is more mature but it needs the use of a TP-Link router to wirelessly control any cameras out there. Please find it here --> http://lrtimelapse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2013-08-20_09h10_21.png

Both apps are free of charge.

Contacting Zoltan may help our developers  I believe.

Cheers

Sedat
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: ShootMeAlready on April 14, 2014, 04:08:54 AM
I would be willing to contribute towards a 70D, as I have benefited from using the T3i port.
However in term of timeline.  It seems to me that the main thing the 70D is lacking is Raw video, and HDR video.
Other than that not much else (even the zebras are bigger on the display for instance). 
Not sure if limitted development scope is possible, but lets face it folks bought the 70D with a desire to shoot video.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 14, 2014, 08:57:16 AM
Not sure if limitted development scope is possible, but lets face it folks bought the 70D with a desire to shoot video.

If you don't mind me asking, what folks? The folks in this thread (it's the ML forum with video bias after all), the folks you know, or the folks in general? When in doubt, at least doing a poll would be a good idea.

It's legit you argue that ML should first receive what you personally need, but I cannot help but mention that all folks I know buy a 5d3 for serious video (cf card = full hd raw). The people I talk to buy a 70d because it's a still achievable "all around" camera with good phase af as a 7d replacement for general shooting. In this capacity, imho the 70d deserves all features, from focus stacking to automatic bracketing.

As written, I'm excited nanomad has taken the offer and there will be a ML for 70d, widening the user base. But I'd like to stress that he knows what he's talking about, a port will take several months at least to an initial version, and then the real "Hey, on second look this doesn't really work as expected" work starts...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: sydneybreeze.com on April 14, 2014, 01:24:31 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what folks? The folks in this thread (it's the ML forum with video bias after all), the folks you know, or the folks in general? [...]

It's legit you argue that ML should first receive what you personally need, but I cannot help but mention that all folks I know buy a 5d3 for serious video (cf card = full hd raw). The people I talk to buy a 70d because it's a still achievable "all around" camera with good phase af as a 7d replacement for general shooting. [...]

I think I disagree with your comment on the 5d3 and "serious video". It's just too broad to be accurate. Righ now, the 70D is unmatched in terms of usable autofocus in video, which I think is why most people are excited with the possibility of a ML port. If your shooting style for instance involves glidecams, the 5d3 is pretty limited in what it can do. You are basically stuck with wide angle and closed aperture, because otherwise stuff is out of focus. Manual focus pulling is out of the questions of course since it would ruin balance. Here the 70D shines because it allows actual autofocus with shallow depth of field at a decent success rate, which is a real game changer. I suspect even "serious" videographers would consider it as a B-cam for this reason.

This is why I decided not to go with a 5d3 right now but hold on to my 70D and put up a chunk of money to explore the possibility of a port. My hope is its decent buffer - if sometime within the next year it gets to support beyond 720p in bursts of a couple of seconds, I would be a happy camper. If not, that's life.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: ShootMeAlready on April 14, 2014, 03:08:34 PM
Marsu, have you looked at the costs involved to go 5DMIII all the way? Its cost $3000+
The trinity of FF zooms, 16-35,24-70,70-200mm they set you back $5000+
Now if you bought a FF, and want bokeh, you will want to go L-Series, 24,35,50,85 & 135mm? Cash outlay $5000+
That's a pretty steeeeep up front cost, to get all that one would want on a FF for video.
Lets see a 70D, cash outlay $1200.
The best APS-C zooms Tokina 11-16mm f2.8, sigma 18-35 f/1.8, sigma 50-150mm f/2.8, cash outlay $2300.
The primes, well you are only going to go USM equivalent on a APS-C, so you already have 18-35mm f/1.8, so only two more needed sigma 50mm 1.4, canon 85mm 1.8. cash outlay $1000.
So lets see for the cost of just the FF zooms, you have all you need on an APS-C to shoot high quality film including decent bokeh.
So in short, folks are buying the 70D for the continuous AF to shoot semi-professional quality films on semi-professional budgets.
If you want wild life / action the 7D is your axe because its 8fps.  There is not much for still photobugs to want to upgrade to in a 70D, its got the same sensor size as rebels & the other aps-c, and it  has a worst view-finder focus.  Its not a prime axe for still shooters. You can put out a poll to get convinced, folks are upgrading to 70Ds from rebels, 60Ds, and 7Ds for the continuous AF video.

So again I ask, is it possible to have a 70D build that targets RAW video & HDR video as first functionality
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 15, 2014, 05:43:12 PM
No. Things will come as they will.
I expect more tested and stable functions to come first, audio last. Raw video probably sits in the middle
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on April 17, 2014, 03:34:55 PM
How to attach photo here??
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 17, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
Use an image hosting site like imgur

For the time being, I've decided to set-up a a GoFundMe Campaign to raise some funds for the 70D

http://www.gofundme.com/8e5o0k

Feel free to donate if you want to :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on April 17, 2014, 03:41:36 PM
I have a 70D how can I be of assistants. I am in Canada NF not working at the time and have free time.

I just shared the link to Canon 70D user group on FB. I will try to get the image to you


(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXv6twF6.jpg%3F1&hash=9d4d2adf2f8639602cb6901c8742c8b5) (http://imgur.com/Xv6twF6)


Please use the modify button to edit extra information to your posts, rather then posting 5 times in a row.  Also, please check the formatting for posting images with the correct image size, as per the forum rules.  //Audionut
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 17, 2014, 04:20:26 PM
 ;D let's start!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Jakobmen on April 17, 2014, 04:29:44 PM
Thank you for the link homie nanomad!

http://www.gofundme.com/8e5o0k
 
 lets get this going! I get paid next week  8)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: solafson on April 17, 2014, 09:05:10 PM
My donation is in!

Alright everyone... put your money where your mouth is... let's fund a camera for Nanomad!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: kaco on April 17, 2014, 11:10:55 PM
I also put some donation for the start. But I thought you can't start porting while there is no firmware update from Canon. This is not true now?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 17, 2014, 11:12:14 PM
Not true anymore  :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: crirus on April 18, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
Great, my donation is in!
Please take into consideration using LCD while hdmi is on, I can do that with DSLR controller on USB

It may be possible the same on HDMI with a hack of some sort and ML?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: siloxr on April 19, 2014, 01:55:24 AM
We're a hair over 2/3 to the goal.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Marsu42 on April 19, 2014, 08:12:37 AM
Marsu, have you looked at the costs involved to go 5DMIII all the way? Its cost $3000+

Absolutely, that's why I've got a 6d :-p

Manual focus pulling is out of the questions of course since it would ruin balance. Here the 70D shines because it allows actual autofocus with shallow depth of field at a decent success rate, which is a real game changer. I suspect even "serious" videographers would consider it as a B-cam for this reason.

Interesting to hear as I'm not a video guy, and I hope the lv af of the 70d and ML integration really ends up in a working solution for semi-pro purposes as the 70d of course is intended as a amateur camera from canon. Let's hope they didn't cut any corners that will hinder ML, the sd card write speed comes to mind first.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: sydneybreeze.com on April 19, 2014, 08:14:08 AM
We're a hair over 2/3 to the goal.

I have topped up the remaining amount.

Thanks Nanomad and ML community for giving us hope ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 19, 2014, 08:50:24 AM
I have topped up the remaining amount.

Thanks Nanomad and ML community for giving us hope ;)
:o wow man!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 19, 2014, 10:46:47 AM
Thanks everyone! I'm speechless :o

Right now the funds sit at 812€ after the fees

I'll leave the campaign running in case anyone wants to contribute towards the AC adapter

Thanks once more, without your help this probably would have taken longer
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: crirus on April 19, 2014, 01:15:54 PM
Maybe you should keep this a while longer, what if , God forbidden, this 70D fries  :P?
Also power adapter are like 30 $ on eBay, I have from China and it's perfect. Take a while to arrive though (21-25 days).

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: bilgebay on April 19, 2014, 02:16:13 PM
I'm really impressed! We're a good bunch of people.... and Giovanni, you are our hero! :)

Thanks to everyone!

Sedat
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: siloxr on April 19, 2014, 07:18:17 PM
Thanks everyone! I'm speechless :o

Right now the funds sit at 812€ after the fees

I'll leave the campaign running in case anyone wants to contribute towards the AC adapter

Thanks once more, without your help this probably would have taken longer
definitely keep It for one more week.  I  can do more next Friday for the adapter.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: morse on April 21, 2014, 03:14:39 PM
Just put another donation in chap, very keen to see this get off the ground.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: TomJ on April 21, 2014, 07:25:54 PM
Been sick as a dog (playing with sick kids..., go figure), so have been isolated for a few weeks. Check in and WOW, people have already funded? Damn..., NICE! I'll put what I can in (not working, but money where the mouth is kind of thing).

As far as AF, the 70D shines on glidecam, here's a quick sample clip:
(Not sure how to properly imbed with BB code?)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: maitimaus on April 21, 2014, 08:05:23 PM
How long do you think you need to move Magic Lantern to the sweet 70D? :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 21, 2014, 11:45:41 PM
As long as it will
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: atonal on April 23, 2014, 02:54:32 PM
I was thinking of doing the port using a blog to track down every action I do, and having at least one follower doing the same things would help quite a bit

Is the blog happening? At least I'm interested in reading how the porting goes, and perhaps learn a thing or two about the ML internals too.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 23, 2014, 04:51:14 PM
I don't even have the camera in my hands yet :)

I'll make sure to update everyone when I get going :)

The blog is something I'm strongly convinced I should do, if nothing to help me keep track of what needs to be done (both for the 70D and for "ML" internals).

Does anyone have suggestions for a small blogging engine? Even something without comments is fine (I''m thinking of using the forum for that)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: X-STATE on April 23, 2014, 07:04:58 PM
I think that the forum will be enough.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Garreth on April 23, 2014, 08:59:47 PM
I don't even have the camera in my hands yet :)

I'll make sure to update everyone when I get going :)

The blog is something I'm strongly convinced I should do, if nothing to help me keep track of what needs to be done (both for the 70D and for "ML" internals).

Does anyone have suggestions for a small blogging engine? Even something without comments is fine (I''m thinking of using the forum for that)

I think that the best would be just wordpress. You'd have plenty of possibilities if you would like to make it something more than just a place for notes of progress, but it's still quite simple to use from scratch.

And I hope that you won't get tired or annoyed with all these questions about the progress.,,
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: siloxr on April 24, 2014, 02:48:18 AM
I'll second wordpress.  You can even host it for free at wordpress.com.  You can basically just select your theme and run with it (or just use the generic theme they give everyone to begin with).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: gutsi on April 25, 2014, 10:31:14 PM
Hi folks.

I just bought a 70d. Even without ml it's a great piece of equipment.  I will donate as soon as i finish paying it  ;D.

We have a great community here.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Dark-Master on April 26, 2014, 11:50:47 PM
Holycow!

There's something going on here! ha!

Magic Lantern is what keeping me to Canon..... 70D + ML will be something beyond imagination!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: globalphotobank on April 27, 2014, 01:56:20 AM
https://www.facebook.com/magiclantern.firmware
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Dark-Master on April 27, 2014, 10:16:05 AM
https://www.facebook.com/magiclantern.firmware

Holycow! dude!

https://www.facebook.com/magiclantern.firmware/photos/a.375203852569559.88401.108300342593246/634428193313789/?type=1&relevant_count=1
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: Pelican on April 27, 2014, 08:12:30 PM
It could be more convenient if this thread can continue in the new ports section.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: satriani on April 27, 2014, 10:42:06 PM
Already done  :D (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8419.0)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
Post by: nanomad on April 28, 2014, 07:29:26 AM
Please continue the discussion on the other thread (linked by satriani)