Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => Hardware and Accessories => Topic started by: Critical Point on June 18, 2013, 05:11:11 PM

Title: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on June 18, 2013, 05:11:11 PM
So, can we use an Android tabled as a field monitor alternative ? I have searched on google for more details on this subject and I didn't find to much info.

On the market these days there are tablets with mini/micros hdmi ports, can we connect these tablets to the camera hdmi and get a high res video image on the tablet ?

Or if we connect the tablet to the camera on the usb port, does this kind of solution work as an alternative for a field monitor ? What do you guys know about this ?
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: albert-e on June 18, 2013, 06:28:54 PM
So, can we use an Android tabled as a field monitor alternative ? I have searched on google for more details on this subject and I didn't find to much info.

On the market these days there are tablets with mini/micros hdmi ports, can we connect these tablets to the camera hdmi and get a high res video image on the tablet ?

Or if we connect the tablet to the camera on the usb port, does this kind of solution work as an alternative for a field monitor ? What do you guys know about this ?

I don't know if this one applies: This one uses a Nexus 7 tablet as a DSLR controller. Take a peak, maybe this is what you need.

...
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on June 18, 2013, 06:46:23 PM
I was hoping maybe someone from here has some experience with those tablets used as monitors.

Right now I have a tablet connected to the camera via the USB cable, but I get only 15 fps on the tablet when seeing the live view from camera. I was wondering if someone knows if it can go to 30 fps. Maybe for that it's required a tablet with HDMI connector, I don't know.

On Android there is an application for controlling DSLR cameras, it can access the live view, it can control all the setings from camera, it can focus, and so on, but like I said, I get only 15 fps, and I would really need 30 for a good use as an field monitor.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on June 19, 2013, 12:05:11 AM
After some more internet digging, it turns out that at the current time, there are no tablets with HDMI input, only output, so no HDMI connection between a DSLR and a tablet. :(
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: SDX on June 19, 2013, 01:11:54 AM
[Original post deleted, created a separate thread]
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6612.msg52599#msg52599

If you just wan't it connected via cable, get the DSLR controller App and a tablet with USB host.

Otherwise, how about those wireless USB (WUSB) transmitters for wireless?
There has been a project using those, unfortunately it's only documented on German. http://ip-networx.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39

Alternatively, the DSLR controller App has a wifi-passthrough mode. Then you just need two Android devices, and you get it wirelessly!
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on June 19, 2013, 12:38:19 PM
The problem with the USB connection, is that I have also a USB Follow Focus device that is really handy, and that device needs the USB port. I know that the android application (Android DSLR controller) has the ability to control the focus, but when it's compared to a real follow focus, it's definitely not as precise.

In the end, it seams that the only solution for now, is to buy a HDMI monitor, since tablets have yet to add this feature of HDMI input. I know the manufactures are thinking about adding this feature, but it's going to be a while until we'll get our hands on a tablet with HDMI input.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Lmylixtyy on July 21, 2013, 04:00:04 PM
So, can we use an Android tablet (http://www.dbuying.com/cheap/android-tablet-pc-377/) as a field monitor alternative ? I have searched on google for more details on this subject and I didn't find to much info.

On the market these days there are tablets with mini/micros hdmi ports, can we connect these tablets to the camera hdmi and get a high res video image on the tablet ?

Or if we connect the tablet to the camera on the usb port, does this kind of solution work as an alternative for a field monitor ? What do you guys know about this ?

Most of the equipment can not be set, only to wait until the update app and hardware vendors
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: deletedAcc.0021 on July 25, 2013, 02:14:13 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Coby-7-Inch-Android-Internet-Tablet/dp/B00B2HCLL6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374753523&sr=8-1&keywords=tablet+with+hdmi+in
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: albert-e on July 25, 2013, 02:48:12 PM
A new Nexus 7 announced by Google yesterday has HDMI port.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: dlrpgmsvc on July 25, 2013, 03:05:59 PM
C'mon boys... HDMI port on tablets and pc's are intended only for output (from the device to the external world), and never for input !  ;D
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: deletedAcc.0021 on July 25, 2013, 03:15:00 PM
C'mon boys... HDMI port on tablets and pc's are intended only for output (from the device to the external world), and never for input !  ;D



My bad ... I guess I didn't read it correctly ... sorry guys
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Africashot on July 27, 2013, 02:43:33 PM
But then again it does work through USB at least to a certain extend, I am getting a Nexus 7 and am very curious about the functionality of the DSLR controller app...
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on July 27, 2013, 04:15:45 PM
Actually it works very well as a field monitor and follow focus, the only down side, is that it takes up the USB port, and in case you have to connect other devices to the USB, you can't.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Datadogie on July 29, 2013, 07:09:24 PM
I think the usb is only 15fps with my 550d anyway. But great if you are using on say a crane as you can adjust focus and other settings.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: aaphotog on July 29, 2013, 09:57:51 PM
I think the usb is only 15fps with my 550d anyway. But great if you are using on say a crane as you can adjust focus and other settings.
Its more than 15fps with a 5d3.
real time playback, or VERY close to it.
Nexus 7 DSLR controller
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on July 30, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
Those 15 fps might have to do more with the tablet than with the camera, maybe you get 30 fps on tablets with at least dual-core processors.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: aaphotog on July 30, 2013, 01:16:22 AM
Those 15 fps might have to do more with the tablet than with the camera, maybe you get 30 fps on tablets with at least dual-core processors.
Yes, the faster the ram/processor, the better the view.
the nexus 7 is almost perfect time wise, I bet the nexus 7 2 is perfect.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: CoresNZ on July 30, 2013, 03:23:57 AM
But then again it does work through USB at least to a certain extend, I am getting a Nexus 7 and am very curious about the functionality of the DSLR controller app...
I had a play with it using last years Nexus 7 on my 5dmk3 and it worked surprisingly well!

It works really well for finding focus as the picture looks better than what i get on my 5 inch Ikan field monitor. even though it only has the resolution of the lcd liveview which i believe is 800x480, it looks much sharper than the 1080i that i get though the hdmi on the ikan. maybe this will change if we ever get a magic lantern port to firmware 1.2 on the 5dmk3 with clean 1080p

The remote operation through the touch screen is a nice bonus but you won't get the magic lantern menus, you'll still have to do this on the camera lcd.

I like that it allows you to use the tablet as an external field monitor while leaving the camera lcd fully operational for monitoring so that you can have two points of monitoring.

It also means you don't have to wait for the horribly slow switching between liveview and hdmi output whenever you want to use the camera or magic lantern menus!

The only real downsides i can see in my testing,

The image lags slightly.. Hopefully this improves with the newever nexus tablet and is not hitting the limit of usb2. It's totally useable as is though.

It drastically reduces the record speed of the camera in raw recording mode. resolutions i was able to record continuoisly in previously were limited to 200-300 frames.. Not sure if there is anything that can be done about this on the magic lantern end?..
I asked the developer of DSLR controller if he would be able to do anything to reduce the overhead, He said that it would have to happen on the ML side as he is only using the standard canon remote interface.

The battery will probably only last 3-5 hours. But i imagine you could hook this up to a battery system with the right adapter cable.

I found the start/stop record button to be a bit flakey so i just ended up using the hardware button on the camera.

Other than that the only issue i can see with it is figuring out how to mount a nexus nicely to the camera. I've seen one solution using a car dashboard mount but it looked a bit goofy..

With a bit more work this thing could be really awesome as a low cost alternative to expensive field monitors. withe the added ability to remote control on cranes etc!

It even has a selection of anamorphic de-squeeze options!
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Critical Point on July 31, 2013, 03:19:58 AM
Another down side is if you have a USB Follow Focus like me, and you need the USB port for it. There is no comparison between a dedicated USB Follow Focus and the tablet focus, they are in two different worlds it terms of fines and field usability. But I agree, the image on the tablet looks better than on the lcd, I also find it easier to focus with the image on the tablet.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: aaphotog on July 31, 2013, 06:02:26 AM
I had a play with it using last years Nexus 7 on my 5dmk3 and it worked surprisingly well!

It works really well for finding focus as the picture looks better than what i get on my 5 inch Ikan field monitor. even though it only has the resolution of the lcd liveview which i believe is 800x480, it looks much sharper than the 1080i that i get though the hdmi on the ikan. maybe this will change if we ever get a magic lantern port to firmware 1.2 on the 5dmk3 with clean 1080p

The remote operation through the touch screen is a nice bonus but you won't get the magic lantern menus, you'll still have to do this on the camera lcd.

I like that it allows you to use the tablet as an external field monitor while leaving the camera lcd fully operational for monitoring so that you can have two points of monitoring.

It also means you don't have to wait for the horribly slow switching between liveview and hdmi output whenever you want to use the camera or magic lantern menus!

The only real downsides i can see in my testing,

The image lags slightly.. Hopefully this improves with the newever nexus tablet and is not hitting the limit of usb2. It's totally useable as is though.

It drastically reduces the record speed of the camera in raw recording mode. resolutions i was able to record continuoisly in previously were limited to 200-300 frames.. Not sure if there is anything that can be done about this on the magic lantern end?..
I asked the developer of DSLR controller if he would be able to do anything to reduce the overhead, He said that it would have to happen on the ML side as he is only using the standard canon remote interface.

The battery will probably only last 3-5 hours. But i imagine you could hook this up to a battery system with the right adapter cable.

I found the start/stop record button to be a bit flakey so i just ended up using the hardware button on the camera.

Other than that the only issue i can see with it is figuring out how to mount a nexus nicely to the camera. I've seen one solution using a car dashboard mount but it looked a bit goofy..

With a bit more work this thing could be really awesome as a low cost alternative to expensive field monitors. withe the added ability to remote control on cranes etc!

It even has a selection of anamorphic de-squeeze options!
I dont get a lag that I notice. If you have a lag, go into your dslrcontroller app. Change from 15fps to 30fps. also, theres another option to speed up the menu. I own an ipad so I only bought the nexus soley for this purpose and have no other apps or memory hogging items on mine... maybe you do???

EDIT: I am also still able to record at my continuous resolution the same as I normally would have.
the only difference in recorded frames for me is like 2.5k where I may have gotten 700 frames before stopping, I'm now only getting 500 frames.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Africashot on July 31, 2013, 06:36:01 AM
I am just waiting to get my nexus in order to use it with my 5D2, very exited about this, I can't understand how this is not used more widely, also the ML app does not get the attention it deserves IMO...
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Redrocks on July 31, 2013, 03:32:47 PM
The new Nexus 7 looks like being perfect for monitoring. In terms of reboot time, what happens when you disconnect the devices? Is it feasible to unplug the Nexus just before hitting record and then plug back in to set up your next take?
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: tronics on July 31, 2013, 09:49:38 PM
I tried the Android DSLR Controller with a mobile phone as well as a Galaxy Note II.
And USB with EOS Utility to a fast Windows 8 tablet.

Both are fine  for framing but lag so much that I had to give up.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: guentergunter on August 08, 2013, 12:11:57 AM
I am just waiting to get my nexus in order to use it with my 5D2, very exited about this, I can't understand how this is not used more widely, also the ML app does not get the attention it deserves IMO...
Already tested with the 5D2?
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: ease on August 08, 2013, 12:37:46 AM
I just got my nexus 7 with my 5d3, not tested in deep yet, but it's pretty nice for now !
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: guentergunter on August 08, 2013, 09:44:23 AM
Thanks ease for your reply.
Well, that's what I very often read about the 5D3. Also there not so much good news about the combination of raw and Android with the cheaper cams like 50D, 600D, etc.
But, what about the 5D2?

I would buy myself a Nexus 7 - in case it will work (especially for focus pulling).

Anyone with a 5D2 has tried it out?
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: guentergunter on August 09, 2013, 06:22:04 PM
Well, I bought myself a Nexus 7 and tried it out: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7054.msg65493#msg65493 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7054.msg65493#msg65493)
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: stevefal on August 02, 2014, 06:15:49 PM
Here's an Android tablet with HDMI input: http://cintiqcompanion.wacom.com/CintiqCompanionHybrid/en/

Pretty expensive but neat. It's a drawing tablet primarily.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: jose_ugs on August 02, 2014, 11:10:28 PM
How much for that one?
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Datadogie on August 03, 2014, 12:09:42 PM
I think it is only hdmi out. Very, very rare to find hdmi in.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: stevefal on August 03, 2014, 03:27:44 PM
It is a pen display. The HDMI input is for displaying the output from your PC/Mac, in order for the stylus to draw right on the image of what you are making in Photoshop etc.

Agree rare, this is the only one I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Silouhette on October 03, 2014, 10:38:53 AM
This is a potential solution:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BN4HOLK/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687622&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00CE7SC66&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=11YMDT302BGSFP31C26S

And this:
http://www.adafruit.com/product/1033

They're obviously not tablets, but the Lilliput is an IPS monitor, and it can be run off an LP-E6 battery. It's also about the same price as an android tablet. The Adafruit is also an IPS monitor and, in theory, could be hooked up to a portable power source (though the setup might be a little cumbersome).
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Silouhette on October 03, 2014, 11:14:08 AM
...But then again, if you're willing to put up with a little bit of lag (though it's nothing compared to Android tablets), you might as well use a Windows machine (like the Surface Pro or Asus Transformer). Canon - and almost certainly Nikon - have utility software for PC and Mac. Despite the lag, you will be able to control your camera, and view some info like the histogram.
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: Silouhette on October 04, 2014, 03:25:37 PM
I guess I missed this:
http://www.amazon.com/Projected-Capacitive-Touchscreen-Compatible-thickness/dp/B00DS18ZTG/ref=pd_sim_pc_6/176-7136640-8541063?ie=UTF8&refRID=0HMMESBQ04HGZGZ25KTJ

With a portable power pack it should work fine (though a few of the reviews are indicating that the USB connector's dodgy).
Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: stevefal on October 07, 2014, 05:24:57 AM
Good find. Looks like it has quality issues on the USB, but it also has DC according to this review:
And here's one for half the price (1368x766) without touch: http://www.amazon.com/GeChic-ON-LAP-Portable-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B00H4MWMWQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

The company: http://www.gechic.com/product_en.asp

Title: Re: Android tablet as field monitor.
Post by: ShootMeAlready on November 05, 2014, 03:31:50 PM
So the Canon EOS utility does not work with my 600D with ML (MLV raw).  It generally refuses to update the screen (but I was able to get slow updates on the zoom in screen).
I disabled global overlays and as much extra as I could. 

That leaves the question does DLSR controller app work on a nexus 7 for the canon 600D with ML???