Magic Lantern Forum

General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 07:55:10 AM

Title: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 07:55:10 AM
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10610/the-eoshd-5d-mark-iii-raw-shooters-guide-available-now

Personally I wouldn't pay a penny to a guide creator BEFORE I donated to the ML team first; they're the ones who did all the work.  Nothing wrong with capitalism, but when I see comments on his site about "he has done so much to push the ML RAW to the masses" I just wonder if those people are thanking those on THIS site as well.

Shrug.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: robertgl on June 18, 2013, 08:12:49 AM
i try hard to avoid that blog
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: vertigopix on June 18, 2013, 08:25:49 AM
I think they must FIRST donate to ML...
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 08:35:06 AM
Exactly.  The developers rightfully give me hell about requesting "perfect audio" which isn't even working yet - don't you all think it's just a tad early to be selling a GUIDE for shooting raw?  The ML Raw isn't even at Alpha 1 stage.

Very premature IMO - seems like just a way to make a quick buck.  How much of the ML hack did Andrew contribute to?  He helped spread the word just as I have tried to help people on here fix their damaged footers.  You don't see me trying to sell a guide.

Hell if I followed all of EOSHD's "advice" I'd have a bunch of 128GB Komputerbay cards that aren't even fast enough to record 1920x1080.  Remember he came out saying those would work, and we know now they are slower than the 64GB cards.

Sigh.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: deleted.account on June 18, 2013, 09:40:38 AM
Shield, yeah that comment made on EOSHD you refer to gave me exactly the same response and if you looked at some sort of timeline of events its not hard to imagine that there was a lot of activity here from followers of the initial raw histogram development that lead to chance of raw at all, raw yuv as alternative and the final break through for raw recording all happened months before with ML members testing and giving feedback.

BUT Andrew is not that fanboy poster and he has put effort into compiling a great deal of disparet info scattered over this site that makes it far less frustrating trying to find stuff, especially for those adopting / investigating raw now.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: sonus on June 18, 2013, 10:12:47 AM
This is a prime example in someone making a buck off the back of the open source community.
He would have done more for the cause making this free to the community. Y'now, to give back to those
who made his mark III usable and as a source of funding for future paid projects.

Bad form in deed. I guess his blog is living long enough to become the villain he has seen in others.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Audionut on June 18, 2013, 10:25:47 AM
Poor form!

ML is in need of better documentation, and this user is charging others who don't know better, for information that is available via these forums.

Poor form!
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Redrocks on June 18, 2013, 10:38:56 AM
I agree with a lot of what has been said here, but let's not lower the tone. The guy has solved a problem for those with more money than time.

The real problem here is as Audionut says "ML is in need of better documentation" which is something we can all turn our attention to.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Audionut on June 18, 2013, 10:48:17 AM
Quote
I sat for like 2000 hours solid in front of software and cameras to make the guide and the $19.99 goes towards the 99% of what EOSHD outputs on the blog - which is FREE.

Please!
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Andy600 on June 18, 2013, 10:50:16 AM
Poor form!

ML is in need of better documentation, and this user is charging others who don't know better, for information that is available via these forums.

Poor form!

Couldn't agree more! I purchased his Anamorphic Shooters Guide a couple of years ago which I did find useful because the information, especially the lens recommendations (by someone who actually owns them) was difficult to find elsewhere but this is pretty low TBH.

When you SEE the amount of work and time the devs have put into developing Magic Lantern for FREE, not to mention all the help and advice they give users on a daily basis here, it feels morally wrong for someone, no matter who he/she is, to capitalize in this way. This isn't how this community works is it?

Andrew Reid - have a rethink on this.

Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: dude on June 18, 2013, 10:57:10 AM
Poor...
I remember last year he believed that gh2 was overall killer (yes, it s a better camera than Alexa...),
Then mk iii was the worst cam ever and bmcc is the new killer, now it s the raw....
Very poor to make money out of the work from others, especially now in the testing status- the raw is in no official version and so hard to understand for beginners, but they want a "cool camera".
When raw is implemented in stable ml versions, there would be no need for a book like that.
It s like taking money for let people watch the cook do their meal...
So I don't think it is a good idea to make money on the back of others work.
But maybe he donates half of his earned money to ml, we don t know.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: g3gg0 on June 18, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
calm down, guys. thats the real world.

in the real world, people do some work and they decide what to do with their work
 - dont share with anyone
 - share by exchanging with goods/money
 - share for free

every single decision has its characteristics:
 - first is just egoistic
 - second is the best decision from the economical point of view
 - third is altruistic and you have spent your time for nothing

for me it is its okay if he did all work on his own.
if its worth its money -> OK
as long there is no ML material in this guide that is not clearly marked as that -> OK
price is lower than normally -> thanks


you pay a few bucks for making a idiot proof manual for you.
so calm down. not everything related to ML has to be free of charge.
thats the way open source always existed and this *has* to continue.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 01:21:40 PM
calm down, guys. thats the real world.

in the real world, people do some work and they decide what to do with their work
 - dont share with anyone
 - share by exchanging with goods/money
 - share for free

every single decision has its characteristics:
 - first is just egoistic
 - second is the best decision from the economical point of view
 - third is altruistic and you have spent your time for nothing

for me it is its okay if he did all work on his own.
if its worth its money -> OK
as long there is no ML material in this guide that is not clearly marked as that -> OK
price is lower than normally -> thanks


you pay a few bucks for making a idiot proof manual for you.
so calm down. not everything related to ML has to be free of charge.
thats the way open source always existed and this *has* to continue.

Right, but let's say for argument's sake one part of the "guide" is how to replace missing footer information.  I spent a little while doing this and posted it for everyone, free of charge.  I don't want nor am I looking for anything in return.  I'm quite sure the other information in his "guide" has been discovered or created by others - to me the entire concept and point of ML *is* open source/free.  Is he donating a portion or all of it to this site?  I would never ask for money for my small contribution here, and to me this software is in the "work out the bugs" stage and better time could be served working out the kinks.
I just find it ridiculous.  The spirit of ML is sharing and collaboration. 
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 01:25:58 PM
Poor...
I remember last year he believed that gh2 was overall killer (yes, it s a better camera than Alexa...),

Exactly.  As I mentioned before, when he first starting talking about ML Raw on his site he was championing 128GB Komputerbay cards, which we now know won't do 1920x1080 perpetually.  How could his "guide" NOT have ML material and ONLY work he's done on his own?  i see what g3gg0 is saying, and I agree with it in principle, but not this situation.  Would love to see what's in the "guide" but no way I'd ever give him a penny BEFORE donating to THIS site.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: JulianH on June 18, 2013, 01:26:16 PM
Agree with g3gg0.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. It's a free world we're living in.

I haven't bought the guide and I won't, because I've been following the developments for hours a day the past few weeks. Small chance I'll find something new in there that makes it worth the money.

But hey, if you want to jump into the game now... this might be a good buy. Of course, it would be cool if someone would make the whole thing for free. Actually I've been planning to make a simple (free) tutorial video to do raw on the 50D (for beginners). It's a lot of work though so I never get to finish it. Even something small like that. Imagine putting the whole guide together.

I have more respect for this pdf - that is the only available document right now - than all those book publishers with their 'how to'  crap books. Especially the photography ones made by shitty photographers.

Anyway, why bother complaining about it. Make a guide yourself - start a topic or a Google Doc where we can all collaberate on making the ultimate ML raw guide for free! I would put some time into it.

And to all the 'donate to ML!' sayers - there is currently no way of donating directly to ML... So that comment doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 01:53:20 PM

Of course, it would be cool if someone would make the whole thing for free. Actually I've been planning to make a simple (free) tutorial video to do raw on the 50D (for beginners). It's a lot of work though so I never get to finish it. Even something small like that. Imagine putting the whole guide together.

I have more respect for this pdf - that is the only available document right now - than all those book publishers with their 'how to'  crap books.

But there are other free guides out there.  Like this:

http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=17898 (http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=17898)
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0fGIIAQXXxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0fGIIAQXXxQ)

In fact, the cinema5d article is the first one I read that got me started.  I would even suspect it was the first "how to" on the raw subject.  I remember reading it in middle May.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: dlrpgmsvc on June 18, 2013, 02:18:43 PM
Let's start, boys  --> http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6594.0    8)
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: g3gg0 on June 18, 2013, 03:13:33 PM
Right, but let's say for argument's sake one part of the "guide" is how to replace missing footer information.  I spent a little while doing this and posted it for everyone, free of charge.  I don't want nor am I looking for anything in return.

as said, if he borrows other's work, this has to be clearly stated in the manual.
definitely. also asking you if its okay to put there would be a kind move.

but still, to share or not to share is up to every single person.
if he makes a lot money with it (srsly, i dont expect that) it would be kind of him to send us some useful stuff for example.

not everyone has to be "one of us" and give all for free. i accept the "others" too.
those who earn their money with the work they do.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Andy600 on June 18, 2013, 03:27:23 PM
I suppose at the end of the day it's no different than the Dummies Guide To Unix etc but I do hope he has fully credited the ML devs and the devs who made the conversion apps in this manual. I hope he sees fit to contribute something back too as this is based entirely on a Magic Lantern development.

I had this dilemma while developing Picture Styles. I put in many hours of work but still couldn't justify charging for them when others would. I guess it's a 'morals' thing  :-\
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: 1% on June 18, 2013, 04:19:41 PM
I have a couple thoughts:

1. He was on here and benefiting from all our combined knowledge. He took it and packaged it to sell.
The big boys do this and even rip you off to boot. It is the real world, not uncommon. Could be worse.

2. Bit rude at an early stage in development, raw is just getting good and stable to try to profiteer off off it.

3. The newbies probably pounded him with questions and dumb questions to boot. He got fed up and decided to make some money off of it, understandable.

4. Raw features change every other day, guide will be outdated soon.

Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: bart on June 18, 2013, 04:32:03 PM
With all respect, what do you expect from a "compile it yourself" restricted nerd area? This guide and contributions from other video related blogs fill a gap and make this amazing technology accessible for a broader public that is more involved in film making than gathering deep technological insights in equipment and software.
Of course it would be great to have it for free, but $20 is fine by me too.

If you think the ML community should provide these things then don't rely on devs, admins and moderators. They have their hands full. Instead start a documentation team and just use the public wiki or write some nice article drafts and share them in the forum. With the help of others it can be made ready to publish. If you don't have all the facts, just ask in the forum. Just start writing and i'm sure the team will look over your shoulders to keep the facts right. Magiclantern.fm has the platform and tools available. Everyone can contribute in this great manner and help each other out. If you want to donate, hire yourself for documentation writing.

UPDATE
Let's start, boys  --> http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6594.0    8)

Yes that's the spirit, good initiative.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: squig on June 18, 2013, 07:06:04 PM
From now on it's $20 per question answered. I'm gonna be rich biatch!  :D

I might have to start giving the right answers.  :-[
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: EOSHD on June 18, 2013, 07:16:27 PM
Quote
"This guide and contributions from other video related blogs fill a gap and make this amazing technology accessible for a broader public"

Cheers for the concerns from certain individuals here, even the troublemakers who are already known to me (not you Bart!).

I really do appreciate the spirit and ethos of an open source project and didn't want to go against that.

I wanted with the book to take Magic Lantern to the less-technically minded parts of the film industry and it is a showcase for the apps too, bringing them to an audience outside the forums. When RawMagic goes gold, if it becomes a paid app like 5DToRGB will the same people complain to Rarevision that they're simply profiteering off someone else's work? I hope not. They work bloody hard to give you such a useful tool.

EOSHD isn't an open source collaborative effort but I do put a lot of stuff out there for free because I believe in free exchange of information. I also believe capitalism and free exchange of info can coexist. In fact it goes deeper than merely coexisting. They compliment each other. I am not alone in requiring funds to survive. Magic Lantern needs funds to sustain it and day jobs and donations. The Shooter's Guides are my day job and I think it is unreasonable to expect me to do my day job for free AND provide an enormous blog about cameras for free also.

An anamorphic guide, a GH2 guide or a 5D Mark III guide is a donation to EOSHD. You get something in return - the book and my hard researched knowledge that I hope will be useful. I don't see a problem with it.

I put huge unpaid effort into the site not to profiteer from a community but to help build one.

I enjoy doing EOSHD and I'm passionate about filmmaking. If I was such a profiteer you'd think it would be plastered with ads.

I get requests and bat them off because I don't want ads to ruin the experience for the reader for the sake of an extra few pennies. That isn't just talk, it's action - show me the ads! Profiteering? Rare paid content goes into sustaining that service and if I didn't have the books - there'd be no EOSHD! End of story! Not even an Andrew Reid, no filmmaking. I'd be unemployed. I sometimes think that is what some people actually want, to see me fall flat on my face as a filmmaker? Completely unable to fund my creative work?

If not for these books I'd be shooting uninspired commercials for corporate clients instead of attempting to help the broader film community get to grips with Magic Lantern and anamorphic lenses. The book is 100% my own work. It didn't exist before I wrote it and of course wouldn't exist if not for Magic Lantern existing, but then everything sits on the shoulders of giants. No Dennis Ritchie. No C code. I am doing a brain dump onto the page of everything I did to familiarise myself with raw video, not just with Magic Lantern and the 5D Mark III but with Resolve and the Blackmagic cameras, and also my own cinematography with two chapters of advice on the creative side.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: squig on June 18, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
You didn't really say 2000 hours did ya Andrew?
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: EOSHD on June 18, 2013, 07:25:36 PM
3. The newbies probably pounded him with questions and dumb questions to boot. He got fed up and decided to make some money off of it, understandable.

That's not the motivation.

EOSHD is free, I work on it all year and get pounded by questions every day. I make money because I have to. If I didn't, it just wouldn't be viable.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 08:01:45 PM
You didn't really say 2000 hours did ya Andrew?

Of course it was 2000 hours!  Since May 1st!

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-U4V52W4xaSM%2FTaRBX9IvLsI%2FAAAAAAAABEQ%2FX4JSJ8nanf0%2Fs1600%2Fsnakeoil.jpg&hash=2f32f899c1ba895817ef61fc0e4aabcf)

"I put huge unpaid effort into the site not to profiteer from a community but to help build one."

Right.  Of course having a site for self-promotion wasn't enough either.  Are you going to file a cease and desist if we get together and do our own documentation for ML installs?

I'm all for capitalism, and people can decide if the $20 is worth it to them.  I can't get behind this, but that's just me.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: robertgl on June 18, 2013, 08:09:55 PM
For some reason I got this image in my head while reading the thread

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FypmKECN.jpg%3F1&hash=1ad38a43f9cd339f9f42c0e4e3b2a7a4)
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 18, 2013, 08:12:53 PM
For some reason I got this image in my head while reading the thread

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tower.com%2Fimages%2Fmm114955206%2Ffree-money-they-dont-want-you-know-about-kevin-trudeau-hardcover-cover-art.jpg&hash=c1ede0eb7babcc18659138240ca1a5a2)


That's funny I thought of this:

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leskobooks.com%2Fdvdevery.jpg&hash=d43d81b1cb7282452f77032df0904451)

Oh and I'm not a filmmaker, so please don't confuse my criticism from someone that doesn't like Andrew Reid.  I like him and was stunned by him selling a pdf on how to install pre-alpha software.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Limiter on June 18, 2013, 08:39:04 PM
I'm fine with Andrew selling his ebook. Everyone shall decide if he wants/needs it. As he said, he's also giving info away for free a lot.

It's IMHO completely separate issue to ML donations (they aren't even allowed right now?)

I didn't buy it, I try to find my info elsewhere. But some will find it appealling, all the info from one document.

Go Andrew go, I love reading your (ad-free) blog!
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: g3gg0 on June 18, 2013, 11:37:12 PM
seriously, guys.
is that the only thing to discuss about?

(my) simple rule: if you dont like how it goes, then do it yourself.
so use your energies not for complaining, but for the manual
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Felixlgr on June 18, 2013, 11:57:54 PM
No wonder everybody feels its not right...even when i here ppl say we live in a capitalism world bla bla bla. I still feels like its not right...

What would be right is donate 25-50% profits to Magic Lantern project...now it feels right and fair: you still get paid for your work and you help Magic Lantern. So now everyones is happy and you can feel good about yourself and you get bonus: good karma ;-) .
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: araucaria on June 19, 2013, 01:23:04 AM
This reminds me of:

Quote
Help me help you         top

I support my growing family through this website, as crazy as it might seem.

The biggest help is when you use any of these links to Adorama, Amazon, eBay, B&H, Ritz, Calumet, J&R and ScanCafe when you get anything. It costs you nothing, and is this site's, and thus my family's, biggest source of support. eBay is always a gamble, but all the other places always have the best prices and service, which is why I've used them since before this website existed. I recommend them all personally.

If you find this page as helpful as a book you might have had to buy or a workshop you may have had to take, feel free to help me continue helping everyone.

If you've gotten your gear through one of my links or helped otherwise, you're family. It's great people like you who allow me to keep adding to this site full-time. Thanks!

If you haven't helped yet, please do, and consider helping me with a gift of $5.00.

As this page is copyrighted and formally registered, it is unlawful to make copies, especially in the form of printouts for personal use. If you wish to make a printout for personal use, you are granted one-time permission only if you PayPal me $5.00 per printout or part thereof. Thank you!

 

Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Audionut on June 19, 2013, 01:45:20 AM
Good ol KR.  Always in a dire straight and need of donations to feed his kids!
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: EOSHD on June 19, 2013, 01:56:27 AM
Exactly.  As I mentioned before, when he first starting talking about ML Raw on his site he was championing 128GB Komputerbay cards, which we now know won't do 1920x1080 perpetually.

Simply not true.

I told my readers as early as May 19th that the KomputerBay 128GB cards are slower. Quoting verbatim from my report:

"The 128GB 1000X tops out at around 73MB/s write and 122MB/s read. The chipset is SiliconMotion SM2236AC. However my 64GB 1000x does 95MB/s write and 120MB/s read."

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10433/which-compact-flash-cards-for-5d-mark-iii-raw-video

I actually bought the 128GB card to test it and I reported here on the forums my benchmarks.

You're a troublemaker Shield, pure and simple.

Regarding "2000 hours", it seems you have not got the intended meaning Squig. All too easy to do on the internet. It is meant in the same way you'd use a phrase like "I haven't seen the sunlight for about a month!". It was hard work!! I sacrificed other work to concentrate on raw video, because I love it. You don't set a stop watch on a labour of love and count the hours. At the same time Squig, you're a member of the EOSHD forum, using my free services, so isn't it a bit poor form to turn around and try and smear me whilst simultaneously benefiting yourself from my hard work in building a resource?
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Audionut on June 19, 2013, 02:07:23 AM
Regarding "2000 hours", it seems you have not got the intended meaning Squig. All too easy to do on the internet.

Since you seem to be aware that an intended meaning is easily misunderstood on the internet, perhaps in the future you can take steps to alleviate that possible misunderstanding.

An anamorphic guide, a GH2 guide or a 5D Mark III guide is a donation to EOSHD.

I've never seen a donation that says Buy it now.  There is absolutely no mention of this guide being any sort of donation to help you or the site.  Just a big blue box that says you can buy it now, at an introductory price and all.  Else, you'll have to donate an extra $10 if you miss the offer!

This thread is clearly not going to go anywhere useful.  Both sides of the story have already been voiced.
If you appreciate that EOSHD has compiled a list of freely available information in 1 easy to access PDF (for a fee), then you can buy it.  If you don't appreciate the steps EOSHD has taken, then I suggest the best thing to do is probably just boycott the site.

Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: squig on June 19, 2013, 02:39:57 AM
At the same time Squig, you're a member of the EOSHD forum, using my free services, so isn't it a bit poor form to turn around and try and smear me whilst simultaneously benefiting yourself from my hard work in building a resource?

Smear you? Are you serious? I've never smeared anyone in the 2.4 trillion hours I've been on the internet. C'mon when you exaggerate don't expect people to not take the piss. Do you see me giving you crap over your guide? When people make defamatory remarks about you or anyone else on the forums I put a stop to it so don't start pointing the finger at me.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: noisyboy on June 19, 2013, 02:59:38 AM
Hmm... interesting thread!

Personally not digging the whole profiteering when you could just point people in the right direction for free part but hey - it's only an opinion... I know it's the way the world works but a lot of the world could do with a big old change. Many people put a lot of time and effort into helping others without a personal gain and it changes the world for the better. Always. Some people do it for money and it still helps. Sometimes.

If people buy this then that's cool I guess :) As long (when asked) you make them aware that this information is freely available to anyone who wants to spend a few hours looking in the right place then fair enough :) To be fair though - you are gonna have to work damn hard to keep this updated so if you are prepared for it being the full-time job it will be then good luck to you dude! Just make sure they are referred to yourself and not the forums for support if it goes tits up and I'm all for it ;)
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: noisyboy on June 19, 2013, 03:11:38 AM
Ps. (sorry to lead the discussion away from the controversy but I'm interested) Genuine question - Do the buyers of your guide get regular updates for free? As 1% mentioned - this will probably be outdated in like a week (just kidding... but seriously...  8) ) and I wondered how committed you are to keeping this guide updated and how you intend to do so? I think if you were to bust balls solidly on this thing for under $20 then okay - it could be (slightly) justified for someone who wants to get up and running with raw_rec and doesn't want to go trudging through 2 months of forum. I guess it would be pretty bogus if it were outdated in a matter of days though!
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Shield on June 19, 2013, 04:21:44 PM
 I would like to respond to EOSHD/Reid from his comments yesterday, which were:

Simply not true.

I told my readers as early as May 19th that the KomputerBay 128GB cards are slower. Quoting verbatim from my report:

"The 128GB 1000X tops out at around 73MB/s write and 122MB/s read. The chipset is SiliconMotion SM2236AC. However my 64GB 1000x does 95MB/s write and 120MB/s read."

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10433/which-compact-flash-cards-for-5d-mark-iii-raw-video

I actually bought the 128GB card to test it and I reported here on the forums my benchmarks.

You're a troublemaker Shield, pure and simple.



However if you look at a Vimeo video posted, a reader asked him which cards to purchase.
https://vimeo.com/66033769 (https://vimeo.com/66033769)

Here was his response, and I'll take a screenshot so he doesn't go back and alter it:
"CF cards - go for 128GB 1000x KomputerBay. Yes unknown brand but they just provide the plastic casing - superb performing likely big brand silicon inside."

Still simply not true Andrew?  Or were you just so caught up in your "camera of the day" frenzy that you forgot this little tidbit?

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goldcomics.com%2Fimages%2Freid.jpg&hash=9ee09583c4bcb7407a69e11790324bec)
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: T.Mitarai on June 21, 2013, 02:52:21 AM
Charging money for a gude is pretty standrad in photo and video. So I don't see a problem BUT I hope EOSHD will keep it updated as it will be useless next month, things a changing fast around here.

It would be cool if EOSHD would donate a %25-%50 to the developers, as he is marketing over here. I think that would be fair.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: squig on June 21, 2013, 02:54:03 AM
$2 is about what they would have got releasing the album through a major label so they didn't do any worse than they would have, plus they didn't have to deal with the tossers at the label.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: T.Mitarai on June 21, 2013, 03:02:49 AM
$2 is about what they would have got releasing the album through a major label so they didn't do any worse than they would have, plus they didn't have to deal with the tossers at the label.

Maybe, but lets all be happy that the developers are not charging us extra for new features. I bet most of us would pay 1K for the raw hack. Again I don't see a problem here as long as it helps the developers here.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: noisyboy on June 21, 2013, 03:22:13 AM
How many people here use magic lantern on professional shoots albeit photography or video and as a result capitalise on Magic Lantern and all of the work the Devs do?

*raises hand*  ::)

I do. Certainly on ANY video shoot.

And how many people I wonder will make more money and could get more work form bettering their skills from a guide such as this? I mean - you do realise you get something for your $20 right? He doesn't just cash it in, and take a bath in it while laughing at you all  ;)

I was not at all into the idea that someone should capitalise on something that is ethically and economically socialist BUT thinking about it more, if you can make a living in any way you can to keep on doing the things you love while not having to work 9-5 in a factory or supermarket then good on you! Especially when at the same time you are helping others achieve the same thing through what you do for a living.

Of course there is no denying that giving your time and efforts charitably and for free will always be the more positive option but damn - dudes godda eat and if he can find a compromise for doing both then I can dig it 8)

Ps. I've got that lamp!  8) Gotta love Ikea...
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: T.Mitarai on June 21, 2013, 03:37:25 AM

I was not at all into the idea that someone should capitalise on something that is ethically and economically socialist BUT thinking about it more, if you can make a living in any way you can to keep on doing the things you love while not having to work 9-5 in a factory or supermarket then good on you! Especially when at the same time you are helping others achieve the same thing through what you do for a living.


Don't have a problem with him making money, I thought it would be cool if a portion of it goes to the developers. Its in the spirit of things around here. He did market it here after all.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: squig on June 21, 2013, 03:50:33 AM
The devs have stated a number of times recently that they are not seeking any donations at this time.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Audionut on June 21, 2013, 04:36:14 AM
I've reopened this thread for further discussion.

Keep this thread civil.  This is not a thread to personally attack Andrew!

Trolling and personal attacks will not be tolerated.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"... Is this in good spirit?
Post by: tactzer0 on June 21, 2013, 02:36:42 PM
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Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"... Is this in good spirit?
Post by: Malcolm Debono on June 21, 2013, 03:04:50 PM
Just voicing my own opinion on this matter:

After reading the guide myself, I can say that a huge portion of it is unrelated to ML such as raw shooting in general, the post-production workflow as well as cinematography in general. This means that the guide isn't about ML per se, but rather features it. So in all fairness, I don't see why many see an issue with this yet no one bothered to mention the number of filmmaking books & magazines that also mention ML.

I for one haven't been following raw development closely as I had my finals during the last month. For someone with plenty of time on his/her hands, he/she can just browse around the forum as well as several other blogs and collect the scattered info. However, not everyone has that much time, and this is exactly the target audience of this guide.

This may seem 'unfair' on those who contribute and expect nothing in return, however the dude has got to make a living somehow and he's posted several useful articles on his blog (for free).

As everything else in life, you can buy it or you can find the info yourself (which after all is accessible). Same goes for picture styles (some are free, some aren't) and everything else.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"... Is this in good spirit?
Post by: AnotherDave on June 21, 2013, 04:02:53 PM
Andrew is a pretty solid dude.

I think his aim is to compile all of the information in a clear way so more people can use the raw hack.

The ML team has done some amazing coding, but EOSHD is what got the word about the hack "The world just exploded".

People shouldn't jump on him for covering his costs... imagine how pissed you'll all be when someone comes out with a CF to SSD adapter that costs $500...  you know that is coming.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"... Is this in good spirit?
Post by: nanomad on June 21, 2013, 07:15:33 PM
Funny thing is that the core ML contributors have nothing against the guide... It's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned :-)
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: romeus on June 21, 2013, 08:55:13 PM
You didn't really say 2000 hours did ya Andrew?

2000 Hours ?
from April 26th to 20th june there's only  1344 hours  ...... O_O Zombie Timebender !!!

ML Team Please !!! Don't talk about what you can't understand. This guy can bend Time  -___-

I sorry I'am not english-speaker, I would have liked to help  you in writting of manual.

Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"...
Post by: Audionut on June 22, 2013, 02:22:42 AM
2000 Hours ?
from April 26th to 20th june there's only  1344 hours  ...... O_O Zombie Timebender !!!

If you bothered to read the thread, you would see that the reasons behind why he wrote 2000hrs were already explained.
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"... Is this in good spirit?
Post by: Greg on June 22, 2013, 02:47:54 AM
Magic Lantern Market - Modules :
raw_rec - 100$
pic_view - 20$
file_man - 20$
ettr - 40$

webbrowser MagicFox - 30$ (wifi only 6D)
MagicPaint - 30$ (only LCD touch)
calculator - 5$
;D haha
Title: Re: EOSHD $20 "Raw shooter's Guide"
Post by: dlrpgmsvc on June 22, 2013, 10:26:36 AM
Quite cheap greg! I will buy all of them! ;D