Hey Guys,
For those of you looking for a Premiere Pro/After Effects workflow I might be able to help you out. In the latest version of my software (Ginger HDR) you can import the RAW files directly into AE/PPro. Just install the plugin, import the footage, and everything should work.
Full tutorial is here:
http://vimeo.com/67934251
Post and link to download:
http://19lights.com/wp/2013/06/08/magic-lantern-raw-video/
Please let me know if you run into any problems.
Happy shooting!
Awesome! Exactly what i was hoping for. Love native workflows! :D Is there any kind of quality loss to this process compared to ACR-import?
unfortunately i dont have any license for these tools :)
It didn't work... had to remove the plugin to get normal ACR working. Unless they've updated it or I'm using it wrong was fail for raw.
Quote from: Markus on June 09, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
Awesome! Exactly what i was hoping for. Love native workflows! :D Is there any kind of quality loss to this process compared to ACR-import?
Hi Markus,
In theory, there is no loss of data. The difference is that you are using my custom debayer and processing instead of Adobe Camera RAW's. Most people consider ACR's debayer to be pretty good. In my opinion, my debayer is pretty good too, but I might be a little bit biased. (-:
Also, ACR does lots of other things without telling you. In addition to debayering, it's also adding contrast, clamping your blacks, clamping your whites, sharpening, and reducing chroma noise. If you want to see ACR without the extras and see a true comparison then you have to set these values:
From Basic:
Blacks: 0
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 0
From Detail:
Sharpening - Amount: 0
Noise Reduction - Color: 0
Btw, even if you decide that Ginger HDR is not for you and you would rather stick with ACR, I'd highly recommend that you always set blacks/brightness/contrast to zero. Otherwise you're just throwing away good dynamic range.
Quote from: 1% on June 09, 2013, 11:38:17 PM
It didn't work... had to remove the plugin to get normal ACR working. Unless they've updated it or I'm using it wrong was fail for raw.
That seems pretty strange. Did you make sure to put the plugins into the AE plugins directory? If you put it into MediaCore it can cause problems. If that wasn't case, please PM me with the exact error that you ran into and I'll take a look.
So we can expect a LOG look similar to what DaVinci offers natively? Sign me up.
Hi! Nice work. I,m trying out you,re demo and after following instructions the files indeed show up and lets me import them to premiere cs5 but It gets stuck on the import and won,t get imported?
I also tried importing a 50fps raw-clip which actually worked, although stretched as from the camera recording. Summary. Regular clips won,t import on my macbook pro on premiere pro cs5 but 50fps clip would? Any suggestions?
Quote from: Danne on June 10, 2013, 12:33:24 AM
Hi! Nice work. I,m trying out you,re demo and after following instructions the files indeed show up and lets me import them to premiere cs5 but It gets stuck on the import and won,t get imported?
I also tried importing a 50fps raw-clip which actually worked, although stretched as from the camera recording. Summary. Regular clips won,t import on my macbook pro on premiere pro cs5 but 50fps clip would? Any suggestions?
Hi Danne,
Is it possible to make the .RAW available somewhere? Please send me an email directly: jhable at 19lights dot com. I'm guessing that there is something in the metadata that is confusing the plugin. If I can get a .RAW file it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Also, what camera and firmware version?
I will check this out
Quote from: John Hable on June 09, 2013, 11:49:10 PM
Hi Markus,
In theory, there is no loss of data. The difference is that you are using my custom debayer and processing instead of Adobe Camera RAW's. Most people consider ACR's debayer to be pretty good. In my opinion, my debayer is pretty good too, but I might be a little bit biased. (-:
Also, ACR does lots of other things without telling you. In addition to debayering, it's also adding contrast, clamping your blacks, clamping your whites, sharpening, and reducing chroma noise. If you want to see ACR without the extras and see a true comparison then you have to set these values:
From Basic:
Blacks: 0
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 0
From Detail:
Sharpening - Amount: 0
Noise Reduction - Color: 0
Btw, even if you decide that Ginger HDR is not for you and you would rather stick with ACR, I'd highly recommend that you always set blacks/brightness/contrast to zero. Otherwise you're just throwing away good dynamic range.
Sounds good, will check it out tomorrow =). And great that I can turn all baked in settings off! The only thing that seems to be missing is a manual white-balance setting where I can type in kelvin numbers and a tint slider like in ACR. To pick a color will work for some clips but will be a frustrating way to work in the long run. All the rest of color correction and sharpening I prefer to do in one set of tools outside this solution. To have a two stage color correction workflow as with ACR is not a good way to do it. You have to start compensating for your secondary correction in dumb ways. But white balance and ceiling of course is great to be able to set before. And I guess the baked in functions might be useful to have as a temporary correction for editing.
Quote from: g3gg0 on June 09, 2013, 11:34:44 PM
unfortunately i dont have any license for these tools :)
Lol ;D
Hey man! Yeah - I also had to remove Ginger when the raw silent pics breakthrough first came about as A) I was getting a weird pixilation with the raws I imported to AE and B) I couldn't get ACR to come up when I would import a DNG sequence to AE. As soon as I removed Ginger both issues were fixed. I can't remember exactly which folder it was installed to so maybe as you say there was an issue there. I shall have to check as I would rather like to have it installed again.
I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow :)
Cheers!
EDIT: It's only fair that I mention that this was on an OLD version of Ginger HDR which clearly has been improved since.UPDATE: This is no longer an issue. Runs totally fine and ACR still works fine.
In fact I just remembered another reason I uninstalled it... $149! Damn dude ;)
Quote from: noisyboy on June 10, 2013, 02:05:59 AM
Lol ;D
Hey man! Yeah - I also had to remove Ginger when the raw silent pics breakthrough first came about as A) I was getting a weird pixilation with the raws I imported to AE and B) I couldn't get ACR to come up when I would import a DNG sequence to AE. As soon as I removed Ginger both issues were fixed. I can't remember exactly which folder it was installed to so maybe as you say there was an issue there. I shall have to check as I would rather like to have it installed again.
I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow :)
Cheers!
EDIT: It's only fair that I mention that this was on an OLD version of Ginger HDR which clearly has been improved since.
Np. Were you on CS6, and did you put it into the MediaCore, as opposed to directly in the plugins folder? I haven't heard about the ACR window not coming up issue before but maybe it's just that no one told me about it. (-: Before CS6, there were AE importer plugins and Premiere importer plugins, and they were separate. Then in CS6 they decided to let AE use Premiere importer plugins. Additionally, you can (I believe) adjust the priority of the PRM plugins, but they will always trump the AE plugins. But if you put the plugins in the AE plugins folder then it will ignore the PRM importer, and ACR will work normally.
In other words, it's kindof a mess. My guess is that the Ginger HDR PRM importer was taking the files away from the ACR importer inside AE, and that's the problem. It's on my todo list to sort this all out but I have a rather long todo list, so I just tell everyone to make sure you keep the plugins out of MediaCore and that's good enough for now.
Btw, if you tried Ginger HDR in the past, and you want to give the trial another go, just email me at jhable at 19lights dot com. Run WhatIsMyMacAddress, send me the output, and I'll clear your trial for you.
Great - will do! Cheers man :)
Okay - you got me... I'm impressed :o
No need to extract DNG's as you can just drag the RAW files straight into AE or Prem with this (that alone is probably worth it for a lot of people). They playback DAMN fast (near real-time). And also it's good to not have to conform the frame rate of each video file as you do with a DNG sequence! Very well executed man.
I think if you were to make a more beginner oriented user friendly interface then you'd be onto a serious winner. It's very good if you are technically clued up on coloring as you can get real deep but I imagine to someone who is used to Magic Bullet (which a lot of ML user will be), they might not no where to begin. Other than that - this needs to be shouted about as it is pretty damn big man. I mean HUGE. And also it's an enormous time saver.
Only feedback I have thus far is I see magenta artifacts around areas that have sharp highlight clipping roll-off (look around the rims of the glasses):
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2anvgi.jpg)
Off to bed now but I'll check back tomorrow! Cheers John and well done :)
Hey Noisyboy, is it possible to make the .RAW available, or to run raw2dng and put one of the DNG frames online? It looks like the magenta issue might be related to moire. I'm always tweaking the debayer so it would help to have a RAW/DNG to take a look at.
John- I'm just seeing this now, but your work on this is fantastic. Do you do any Mac development? FxPlug for FCP X/Motion integration would be super. I've hacked up an effective yet ugly combination of bash, sed, and php to get .RAW files into Prores in automated fashion, but it's clunky and time consuming. I'd dump it in a second for drag-and-drop right into the timeline.
Quote from: Hazer on June 10, 2013, 07:56:09 AM
John- I'm just seeing this now, but your work on this is fantastic. Do you do any Mac development? FxPlug for FCP X/Motion integration would be super. I've hacked up an effective yet ugly combination of bash, sed, and php to get .RAW files into Prores in automated fashion, but it's clunky and time consuming. I'd dump it in a second for drag-and-drop right into the timeline.
Hi Hazer. Thanks!
To answer your question, FxPlug support is on the todo list. The problem is that I just have too much to do and not enough time. And I tend to get distracted by things like, you know, RAW support for canon cameras coming out of nowhere. (-: I'd like to support FxPlug, as well as OpenFX, but I don't want to make any promises because there are a lot of things to do first.
Quote from: John Hable on June 10, 2013, 05:39:54 AM
Hey Noisyboy, is it possible to make the .RAW available, or to run raw2dng and put one of the DNG frames online? It looks like the magenta issue might be related to moire. I'm always tweaking the debayer so it would help to have a RAW/DNG to take a look at.
Hey dude! Yeah I'll sort it later for you. I think you are probably right though... This is an area that suffers from moire/aliasing issues but seems more subdued in ACR. I'll share the originals when I get home anyway. Thanks again man. Seriously loving this 8)
Quote from: John Hable on June 10, 2013, 05:39:54 AM
Hey Noisyboy, is it possible to make the .RAW available, or to run raw2dng and put one of the DNG frames online? It looks like the magenta issue might be related to moire. I'm always tweaking the debayer so it would help to have a RAW/DNG to take a look at.
John, great work! Here's a DNG that had some magenta in the highlights on my end, hope this helps.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9NGeifIx8I5dW5CM01pTEo2WDg/edit?usp=sharing
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-u2WxNW7jNKU/UbWz6QSNiXI/AAAAAAAABTM/PglFQRrXlmQ/w907-h510-no/2052+RAW.jpg)
Quote from: crazyrunner33 on June 10, 2013, 01:10:36 PM
John, great work! Here's a DNG that had some magenta in the highlights on my end, hope this helps.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9NGeifIx8I5dW5CM01pTEo2WDg/edit?usp=sharing
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-u2WxNW7jNKU/UbWz6QSNiXI/AAAAAAAABTM/PglFQRrXlmQ/w907-h510-no/2052+RAW.jpg
Smells like wrong (higher than the correct one) White Level. So after WB the R & B channels become higher than the green and the result is magenta highlights.
John, do you read White Level from exif ??. It's set there at 15000 (although this 15000 is a bit conservative .. raw histogram shows clearly that the white clipping is at 16382).
A usual error here is the interpretation of this value. It refers to the full 14bit range so after subtracting the "Black Level" it changes to 15000-2047 = 12953 (or if we use the correct WL = 16382 - 2047 = 14335).
Hi John,
Ginger HDR works perfectly with daylight shots. But with artificial light is problem. I can't set WB correctly. Here is the link on .RAW files (3-4 frames each, wall and keyboard are white) http://d.pr/f/T2gn/3vK7jPoe (http://d.pr/f/T2gn/3vK7jPoe). So if you can correct this in your debayer it would be perfect tool (getting negative values of blue in 32bpc mode) I have realtime playback of RAW files (straight from camera) in Premiere CS6 on 1/2 res on MBP 17 w. 16GB RAM.
Love your plugins for HDR, nice tool for correcting RAW files. Especially Fix Thin Lines, Highlight Contrast and Highlight Recovery :)
All best
Quote from: crazyrunner33 on June 10, 2013, 01:10:36 PM
John, great work! Here's a DNG that had some magenta in the highlights on my end, hope this helps.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9NGeifIx8I5dW5CM01pTEo2WDg/edit?usp=sharing
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-u2WxNW7jNKU/UbWz6QSNiXI/AAAAAAAABTM/PglFQRrXlmQ/w907-h510-no/2052+RAW.jpg)
In terms of the magenta highlights in clouds, the plugin is in fact using the proper clipping point. I've seen this before on many cameras. Essentially, it seems to step from being too aggressive with using the whole range of highlight headroom. To get rid of the problem, all you have to do is apply a levels operation (or the ceiling in the White Balance) effect and it goes away.
Quote from: noisyboy on June 10, 2013, 12:25:10 PM
Hey dude! Yeah I'll sort it later for you. I think you are probably right though... This is an area that suffers from moire/aliasing issues but seems more subdued in ACR. I'll share the originals when I get home anyway. Thanks again man. Seriously loving this 8)
Noisyboy, can you still make a DNG available? I'm changing around the debayer and I'd like to get a closer look at your moire/aliasing issues.
Quote from: Mido on June 10, 2013, 07:15:33 PM
Hi John,
Ginger HDR works perfectly with daylight shots. But with artificial light is problem. I can't set WB correctly. Here is the link on .RAW files (3-4 frames each, wall and keyboard are white) http://d.pr/f/T2gn/3vK7jPoe (http://d.pr/f/T2gn/3vK7jPoe). So if you can correct this in your debayer it would be perfect tool (getting negative values of blue in 32bpc mode) I have realtime playback of RAW files (straight from camera) in Premiere CS6 on 1/2 res on MBP 17 w. 16GB RAM.
Love your plugins for HDR, nice tool for correcting RAW files. Especially Fix Thin Lines, Highlight Contrast and Highlight Recovery :)
All best
Hi Mido,
Thanks! The white point is an issue that I've noticed as well. The plugin doesn't have any controls for color temperature or tint in the importer. This hasn't been an issue for other cameras (like ikonoskop and BMC) because I just use the white balance in the DNG.
But I've seen the same problem you're talking about. It seems to be that with really low color temperatures (like tungsten lights around 2400k) that there is almost no blue left in the image except for noise. By dropping the ceiling you just end up with blue noise.
There is a partial solution. There is another effect called Color Temperature. Set the temperature to a really low value, and then apply the white balance to fix it the rest of the way. It seems to work better.
The ideal solution would be to have WB information in the RAW file, or at least a control in the importer. But for now the color temperature effect plus WB effect is the best I can do.
Hey John! Sorry I've been out of the game. Been a mad week or so and things just pick up all of a sudden and whoosh - I'm off again :)
I'll try and send one now dude.
http://ge.tt/api/1/files/9j1YVAj/0/blob?download
cheers :)
(http://www.eoshd.com/uploads/5d3-ginger-raw.jpg)
John, great work.
At 1/2 res on the timeline I get fluid playback on my Mac Pro with CUDA accelerated Mercury engine, GTX 560 Ti in Premiere CS6.
At 1/2 res the magenta highlights disappear but they are there on the full res debayer.
There's something else wrong too as I can't get the same latitude as I can on the DNGs.
The shot above was overexposed and I was able to bring it down fine in ACR. When I do the same in Ginger with the Manual Exposure setting, or any of the colour grading controls under Filmic Curve I get clipped highlights as if a lot of the dynamic range just isn't accessible.
I also think the UI needs an overhaul for this to become a really popular tool. I think it should show the full metadata, and have graphical dials and sliders for kelvin, ISO, exposure, tint, shadows, highlight recovery just like Adobe. I can't get a 'feel' for my image as I change it by having to type the digits in, and the sliders are way too sensitive and not responsive enough in the rate at which they change the image in the monitor.
One other point - although I get a clip preview in the project manager thumbnail gallery, nothing happens when I double click the raw file to bring it up in the source clip monitor. It works fine on the timeline but not in the source clip viewer.
This is all on Premiere CS6 under OSX Mountain Lion.
Cheers!
Quote from: noisyboy on June 12, 2013, 03:10:44 AM
http://ge.tt/api/1/files/9j1YVAj/0/blob?download
cheers :)
Thanks for the file. It really helped with testing.
Quote from: EOSHD on June 13, 2013, 12:21:07 AM
John, great work.
At 1/2 res on the timeline I get fluid playback on my Mac Pro with CUDA accelerated Mercury engine, GTX 560 Ti in Premiere CS6.
At 1/2 res the magenta highlights disappear but they are there on the full res debayer.
There's something else wrong too as I can't get the same latitude as I can on the DNGs.
The shot above was overexposed and I was able to bring it down fine in ACR. When I do the same in Ginger with the Manual Exposure setting, or any of the colour grading controls under Filmic Curve I get clipped highlights as if a lot of the dynamic range just isn't accessible.
I also think the UI needs an overhaul for this to become a really popular tool. I think it should show the full metadata, and have graphical dials and sliders for kelvin, ISO, exposure, tint, shadows, highlight recovery just like Adobe. I can't get a 'feel' for my image as I change it by having to type the digits in, and the sliders are way too sensitive and not responsive enough in the rate at which they change the image in the monitor.
One other point - although I get a clip preview in the project manager thumbnail gallery, nothing happens when I double click the raw file to bring it up in the source clip monitor. It works fine on the timeline but not in the source clip viewer.
This is all on Premiere CS6 under OSX Mountain Lion.
Cheers!
Hi,
First off, there's a new version on site:
http://19lights.com/wp/downloads/
It's labeled June 12. In the past I've had slight problems with false color artifacts but it's never been a big issue. But it's a major problem on Magic Lantern RAW video because the data is point sampled. So I had to do some reworking of the debayer code. Please try it out.
This might sound strange, but the Tonemapping effect was never actually designed to be a RAW processor. The Tonemapping effect came first and Ginger HDR was first used for processing HDR timelapse footage. As time has passed we are getting more and more dynamic range out of sensors, so I've been moving into RAW processing. The Tonemapping effect assumes that its input is clean, HDR footage with a proper white balance. But since it was never designed to be a "RAW Processor" it's missing a few things that you need.
The proper solution is that there should be a menu that pops up in advanced settings (like ACR). You can't get an exact fix for white balance after loading the file because it ideally needs to happen before the color matrix. This hasn't been an issue with the BMC/Ikonoskop because they have WB data in the file, but since there's no WB in the Magic Lantern RAW data it can be so far off that it's difficult to correct. The only solution is to have that menu in the importer.
In terms of dynamic range, it's a longer discussion. In the current setup you lose some dynamic range during the initial import into D65 white balance, and you lose some more dynamic range if you shift the white balance away towards something else (like cloudy or indoor light). This would be solved by putting the WB in the importer.
Another feature that ACR has (and some other RAW processors) is better highlight recovery. For example, if your highlights become magenta, it can extrapolate the green channel to balance it out. The one thing I'm paranoid about is temporal coherency. Extracting the highlights sounds great until your footage starts flickering. So it could be done, but would have to be in a menu.
The big takeaways are:
1. Color Temperature, Tint, and Exposure need to be in a menu for the importer and should happen before the color matrix conversion.
2. The current Tonemapping effect is too complicated for a typical one light. And it has several other issues as well. I'm currently in the process of breaking it up into several smaller effects, which will make them faster and more intuitive.
3. While these will get fixed eventually, it will take some time.
One more thing EOSHD: Can you put one of those DNG files online somewhere? Thanks!
The flickering in ACR is making highlight recovery and even exposure corrections impossible, is that something that could easily be fixed or would it require a major rewrite?
I wonder if it would be possible to actually make ml write the WB info into the RAW footer? See http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5853.0
Hey,
I am/was pretty excited about this workflow and I've been playing around with it. However, a recent video I shot, which looks fine in the ACR editor, when imported into premiere looks extra grainy. When imported into AE, it looks really bad. Is this something that's on-going or is it something I could fix/change about the workflow? The DNGs were first edited through ACR and then imported into AE with the GingerWrapper.
(https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Kbm5WSGI4Sko2Njg/edit?usp=sharing)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Kbm5WSGI4Sko2Njg/edit?usp=sharing
Quote from: squig on June 13, 2013, 12:48:40 PM
The flickering in ACR is making highlight recovery and even exposure corrections impossible, is that something that could easily be fixed or would it require a major rewrite?
I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Adobe. (-: I'm not entirely sure what corrections ACR makes automatically, but I believe it does an analysis of the histogram and tries to maximize the range out of it, but can make it unstable. In theory there are ways you could make it more stable, but ACR is a black box that external developers have no access to.
Quote from: Michael Zöller on June 13, 2013, 01:27:37 PM
I wonder if it would be possible to actually make ml write the WB info into the RAW footer? See http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5853.0
YES!!! Getting the color temperature and G/M shift into the metadata would be a huge help.
Quote from: dandeliondandy on June 13, 2013, 08:22:30 PM
Hey,
I am/was pretty excited about this workflow and I've been playing around with it. However, a recent video I shot, which looks fine in the ACR editor, when imported into premiere looks extra grainy. When imported into AE, it looks really bad. Is this something that's on-going or is it something I could fix/change about the workflow? The DNGs were first edited through ACR and then imported into AE with the GingerWrapper.
(https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Kbm5WSGI4Sko2Njg/edit?usp=sharing)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Kbm5WSGI4Sko2Njg/edit?usp=sharing
Can you put one of your DNGs online? What ISO were you shooting at?
Sure,
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Ka2M1ajl1TjJ4X2M/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Ka2M1ajl1TjJ4X2M/edit?usp=sharing)
I forget the ISO exactly, but it was fairly low for how grainy the image is. I've found that it looks bad in whatever image viewer I have for Windows, but renders, normally, out great in After Effects, or at least very decent. It's possible it's something to do with the processing.
This was my first attempt at a long recording. With the new ML build I got near continuous shooting on the 5DmkII at 1880x800, so this file was spanned over a few clips, and then processed using Rawanizer. Maybe somewhere down the line it had grain added, but as of now when I import the same file into AE, without the wrapper, I don't get all that noise. And since there is a bit of noise reduction added in ACR it looks much better than the normal image viewer preview.
Thanks for your help! :)
Here's the overexposed DNG John.
http://we.tl/31Mb24MVqb
Cheers
Looking very good! Haven't tried it myself yet, but definitely very interesting. I wonder though, what would be a good grading workflow? You could edit in Premiere and export to Prores 444 and go into Resolve maybe, but is there a possibility to export as .raw again, or dng or even better cinema dng...?
Since we probably won't see sliders for a good chunk of time, how hard would it be implement a log output for the time being? I think that'd be good for dropping the , .gnr, .raw, .dng files in media encoder and exporting to prores or dnx. This gives an alternative to CineForm. You have a fast, decent looking debayer.
I would love to try it, but I have used my 30 days of trial some month ago. Since the plugin is used for a completely different task no i was hoping for a retry ;)
Quote from: iaremrsir on June 16, 2013, 05:46:08 AM
Since we probably won't see sliders for a good chunk of time, how hard would it be implement a log output for the time being? I think that'd be good for dropping the , .gnr, .raw, .dng files in media encoder and exporting to prores or dnx. This gives an alternative to CineForm. You have a fast, decent looking debayer.
I second that wish.
Is there a slight posibility to activate the adobe camera raw to the native raw clips or does it have to be extracted dng,s? I believe those sliders are giving the fastest and best results when doing the basic grading.
Quote from: iaremrsir on June 16, 2013, 05:46:08 AM
Since we probably won't see sliders for a good chunk of time, how hard would it be implement a log output for the time being? I think that'd be good for dropping the , .gnr, .raw, .dng files in media encoder and exporting to prores or dnx. This gives an alternative to CineForm. You have a fast, decent looking debayer.
I just turned my adobe media encoder to a RAW batch exporter. By adding the ginger plug-in folder to the adobe media encoder plug in common folder, the same way it,s done when adding it to the premiere pro folder. I can simply drag and drop all the raw files to the encoder making all the settings. Awesome!
Ginger allows me to import the raw file directly in adobe premiere
But when I've tried importing raw files into after effects, it won't import. Any ideas?
I can see the Ginger plugin in after effects, but I can't import any raw files though.
Quote from: Danne on June 16, 2013, 07:21:53 PM
I just turned my adobe media encoder to a RAW batch exporter. By adding the ginger plug-in folder to the adobe media encoder plug in common folder, the same way it,s done when adding it to the premiere pro folder. I can simply drag and drop all the raw files to the encoder making all the settings. Awesome!
Yeah, it uses the same plugin format as Premiere, so I'd expect it to work. If you have Prelude, would you mind checking to see if it uses the same importer plugin? That'd be awesome to connect some logging metadata with raw files!
Quote from: aaphotog on June 16, 2013, 08:02:47 PM
Ginger allows me to import the raw file directly in adobe premiere
But when I've tried importing raw files into after effects, it won't import. Any ideas?
I can see the Ginger plugin in after effects, but I can't import any raw files though.
Did you make sure that you don't have both importer plugins in the after effects plugin folder? I think that might cause some conflicts.
Quote from: iaremrsir on June 17, 2013, 03:36:13 AM
Did you make sure that you don't have both importer plugins in the after effects plugin folder? I think that might cause some conflicts.
what do you mean BOTH importer plugins?
I installed just how i did in premiere and im getting no issue in that
Another issue I'm having. When bring my raw files directly into premiere, Im getting the vertical black bars. The other software has fixed this issue, do you plan on making a fix for this?
I've downloaded the demo, it expires in 30 days, right?
If so, will I no longer be able to import these RAW files into premiere at all?
$100 seems a bit steep for a tool to simply import files into premiere.
Quote from: aaphotog on June 17, 2013, 04:05:37 AM
what do you mean BOTH importer plugins?
I installed just how i did in premiere and im getting no issue in that
In the GingerHDR plugin folder, there are two importer plugins: one for AE and one for PrP. Having the two in the same folder might cause AE to get confused, because, if I'm not mistaken, AE can use PrP importer plugins as well. Also, did you install the plugins to the respective program folders, or did you install it to Adobe\Plug-ins\Common\CSx\MediaCore\ ? I think the dev mentioned somewhere, that having the plugins there could cause problems.
Quote from: iaremrsir on June 17, 2013, 04:40:05 AM
In the GingerHDR plugin folder, there are two importer plugins: one for AE and one for PrP. Having the two in the same folder might cause AE to get confused, because, if I'm not mistaken, AE can use PrP importer plugins as well. Also, did you install the plugins to the respective program folders, or did you install it to Adobe\Plug-ins\Common\CSx\MediaCore\ ? I think the dev mentioned somewhere, that having the plugins there could cause problems.
they were all in the plug ins common folder as you've listed.
I had to move two files
GingerWrapper-PRM-mac64
and another one that looked like the one I just listed but had AE in it as well. When I did that it worked!
When I left those two files in both folders I got a warning stating that they were on my system twice.
How do I move them both to the AE folder, but still leave them so that Premiere may use them?
Quote from: dandeliondandy on June 13, 2013, 10:20:18 PM
Sure,
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Ka2M1ajl1TjJ4X2M/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-tH0mvjEp1Ka2M1ajl1TjJ4X2M/edit?usp=sharing)
I forget the ISO exactly, but it was fairly low for how grainy the image is. I've found that it looks bad in whatever image viewer I have for Windows, but renders, normally, out great in After Effects, or at least very decent. It's possible it's something to do with the processing.
This was my first attempt at a long recording. With the new ML build I got near continuous shooting on the 5DmkII at 1880x800, so this file was spanned over a few clips, and then processed using Rawanizer. Maybe somewhere down the line it had grain added, but as of now when I import the same file into AE, without the wrapper, I don't get all that noise. And since there is a bit of noise reduction added in ACR it looks much better than the normal image viewer preview.
Thanks for your help! :)
Hi dandeliondandy. I checked out your files and noticed a few things.
First off, the shot is actually pretty underexposed. Like, 3-4 stops. To get to the brightness in the image you have, it must be significantly brightened which brings out the noise. So the first thing I'd say is try to have a longer exposure/ wider aperture. Also, shooting at the ISO that gives you the best image is better than shooting at a lower ISO and bringing it up. I.e. shooting at ISO 800 will give you cleaner results than shooting at ISO 100 and raising it 3 stops in post.
Also, we all know ACR does noise reduction (at least I hope everyone knows that). But it also clamps out your blacks, whereas Ginger HDR gives you as much data as possible. Even when "blacks" is set to zero it still seems to clamp out some data. If you import with Ginger HDR and then do a levels it will give you similar blacks to loading in ACR with no noise reduction.
Quote from: JulianH on June 16, 2013, 12:23:46 AM
Looking very good! Haven't tried it myself yet, but definitely very interesting. I wonder though, what would be a good grading workflow? You could edit in Premiere and export to Prores 444 and go into Resolve maybe, but is there a possibility to export as .raw again, or dng or even better cinema dng...?
Hi Julian. You can't really go back and forth from graded footage to RAW/Cinema DNG. If you want to grade in Resolve then you are stuck with doing a one time conversion of everything.
Quote from: iaremrsir on June 16, 2013, 05:46:08 AM
Since we probably won't see sliders for a good chunk of time, how hard would it be implement a log output for the time being? I think that'd be good for dropping the , .gnr, .raw, .dng files in media encoder and exporting to prores or dnx. This gives an alternative to CineForm. You have a fast, decent looking debayer.
It's possible, but it's actually about the same amount of work as putting sliders together. The time consuming part is putting together a window that gives you options to change. Some people would want linear data, some would want log, some would want an S-curve, etc.
Quote from: breaker on June 16, 2013, 04:34:37 PM
I would love to try it, but I have used my 30 days of trial some month ago. Since the plugin is used for a completely different task no i was hoping for a retry ;)
Hi breaker. No problem. Email me directly (jhable at 19lights dot com) and I'll help you out.
Quote from: Danne on June 16, 2013, 06:25:41 PM
I second that wish.
Is there a slight posibility to activate the adobe camera raw to the native raw clips or does it have to be extracted dng,s? I believe those sliders are giving the fastest and best results when doing the basic grading.
Hi Danne. Unfortunately, that's not possible. The ACR window is tightly integrated with their raw file loader and there is no way for external developers to integrate with it.
Quote from: aaphotog on June 17, 2013, 08:21:03 AM
they were all in the plug ins common folder as you've listed.
I had to move two files
GingerWrapper-PRM-mac64
and another one that looked like the one I just listed but had AE in it as well. When I did that it worked!
When I left those two files in both folders I got a warning stating that they were on my system twice.
How do I move them both to the AE folder, but still leave them so that Premiere may use them?
Hi aaphotog:
First the short answer. Don't put them into MediaCore. It's counter-intuitive, but that's the trick.
In Premiere Pro, you want to put the plugins under:
Applications/Adobe Premiere Pro CS6.0/Contents/Plug-ins/Common/
In After Effects, you want to put them under:
Applications/Adobe After Effects CS6.0/Plug-ins/Effects/
Now the long answer. In CS5.5 and earlier, After Effects and Premiere plugins were completely separate. GingerWrapper-AE uses the AE interface and GingerWrapper-PRM uses the Premiere interface. And life was good.
Then in CS6.0 Adobe decided to let After Effects load Premiere-style plugins if they are in MediaCore. So if you put the files into the AE directory listed below, then AE will use AE plugin, it will ignore the PRM plugin, and everything will work. But if you put them into MediaCore then AE will try load both the AE and the PRM plugin, and get confused.
Quote from: John Hable on June 17, 2013, 10:47:14 AM
Hi Danne. Unfortunately, that's not possible. The ACR window is tightly integrated with their raw file loader and there is no way for external developers to integrate with it.
That,s what I suspected. Thanks for answering. I,m no color-grader originally, I,m a still photographer mainly but I do a lot of filming as well. When I try grading in premiere or after effects, not only is it a bit messy but the changes and end result I get do not match the ones I get with the acr-module. I do not know what adobe got cooking in that "black box" but it works pretty well ;).
I have to say your raw-file is looking very good and there,s all the information I need, probably my skills are a bit off when it comes to grading. I need my clips to retain higlights and black as from the acr module. Is it possible to obtain this outside acr? Question. Is your plugin letting out the raw stream from the camera, is it 14 or 16 bit (*edit, not 16bit, found out myself)? Also interested how the white balance is chosen for the clip. Is it the same for every clip in raw and I have to change it myself afterwards?
Thanks a lot
//D
Ooops. Double post.
Work fine and fast, but white balance and highlight rolloff it can be improved...
Great job!
Hi! Since the rawstream doesn,t include any hot/dead pixelremoval like when processed as dng,s I wonder what to tolerate here. Especially when in 5x mode and on high iso I have som dead pixel showing up. Anybody experiencing something similar?
(http://s23.postimg.org/im297itqj/beaver_1.jpg)
John,
Thanks, but the shot I'm talking about wasn't taken for proper exposure of the interior since I was only playing around with bringing out the highlights of the sky and brought up the darker areas to test where they stood, only. I was really just seeing how long the 5DmkII could record on my CF card on the newest build. (over two minutes on a 60mb/s card until the card was full!! Very impressive.)
My concern with the image, which is by no means clean and well exposed, is that it looked much worse when processed through Ginger, than ACR, when rendered out in after effects. As you can see by the two examples I posted, the first being from Ginger, there's a large difference in amount of grain or noise and I simply wanted to figure out why. I'd love to be able to use native dng support in both AE and PPro, but there's no way I could do that currently with the way it added noise to my files. I don't believe Ginger's clean version of the raw file is it, either, as the files looked better in a image preview than when they were imported through the wrapper. And the same files, when opened with only ACR's base processing, looked about the same as the preview. Ginger added noise and color distortion.
I'm hoping it's simply a setting I haven't set properly.
Thanks!
ginger crashes every time twixtor is applied to the clip
Love this plugin, and all the color correction effects work on it in premiere besides the RGB Color Corrector, it just goes black and doesn't do anything. Also what are some workflows to color correct if I am editing in premiere with the RAW files directly imported using the Ginger HDR plugin.
Quote from: dandeliondandy on June 18, 2013, 03:22:13 AM
John,
Thanks, but the shot I'm talking about wasn't taken for proper exposure of the interior since I was only playing around with bringing out the highlights of the sky and brought up the darker areas to test where they stood, only. I was really just seeing how long the 5DmkII could record on my CF card on the newest build. (over two minutes on a 60mb/s card until the card was full!! Very impressive.)
My concern with the image, which is by no means clean and well exposed, is that it looked much worse when processed through Ginger, than ACR, when rendered out in after effects. As you can see by the two examples I posted, the first being from Ginger, there's a large difference in amount of grain or noise and I simply wanted to figure out why. I'd love to be able to use native dng support in both AE and PPro, but there's no way I could do that currently with the way it added noise to my files. I don't believe Ginger's clean version of the raw file is it, either, as the files looked better in a image preview than when they were imported through the wrapper. And the same files, when opened with only ACR's base processing, looked about the same as the preview. Ginger added noise and color distortion.
I'm hoping it's simply a setting I haven't set properly.
Thanks!
Hi. Sorry for the late reply I was trying to figure out the right way to explain this and then got distracted. Anyways, ACR is not showing you the data that is actually in the file. Rather, it does lots of correction. Some of that is good, some of that is bad.
To see what the true image looks like, in the basic window you have to set black, contrast, and brightness to zero. I'm on Process 2010 by the way. Then under noise reduction you have to set all those to zero as well. If you do those, then you will get a true version of what your image looks like. That's what this image is:
http://www.19lights.com/downloads/scratch/M000269_v1.jpg
Then you can increase the exposure to 4.0 and it looks like this.
http://www.19lights.com/downloads/scratch/M000269_v2.jpg
There are several ways that ACR removes noise. One of them is noise reduction. Another one is by increasing the blacks and contrast setting. ACR is throwing away in the bottom end of your histogram, which makes the image look less noisy. But if you were doing a shot that had detail down there then ACR would lose it. You could achieve a similar effect by doing a levels operation after importing with Ginger HDR.
Any time you shoot you will have some noise. Ginger HDR is not adding grain to your image. Rather, it's not removing the grain that is already there. If your image is properly exposed then this tends to be a non-issue. But if you have to bump the exposure it will amplify the noise, especially in the blacks.
Quote from: Danne on June 17, 2013, 02:04:50 PM
Hi! Since the rawstream doesn,t include any hot/dead pixelremoval like when processed as dng,s I wonder what to tolerate here. Especially when in 5x mode and on high iso I have som dead pixel showing up. Anybody experiencing something similar?
(http://s23.postimg.org/im297itqj/beaver_1.jpg)
Hi Danne. I'm looking into dead pixel removal but don't quite have a solution yet.
Quote from: dlrpgmsvc on June 23, 2013, 01:09:11 AM
ginger crashes every time twixtor is applied to the clip
That seems a little strange. I'll try it out. Can you contact me directly at jhable at 19lights dot com and let me know what OS and version of Premiere/AE you are on?
Quote from: John Hable on June 26, 2013, 08:52:02 AM
Hi Danne. I'm looking into dead pixel removal but don't quite have a solution yet.
NICE!
Quote from: John Hable on June 26, 2013, 08:52:02 AM
Hi Danne. I'm looking into dead pixel removal but don't quite have a solution yet.
You could use dark frame subtraction. That should fix FPN and hot pixels.
Quote from: iaremrsir on June 26, 2013, 06:21:35 PM
You could use dark frame subtraction. That should fix FPN and hot pixels.
do you have a workflow suggestion to this method using premiere pro or after effects?
In my limited testing, the pattern noise in video mode is not fixed, http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5609.msg55352#msg55352
This will make it all but impossible to remove.
Quote from: Audionut on June 27, 2013, 07:04:35 AM
In my limited testing, the pattern noise in video mode is not fixed, http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5609.msg55352#msg55352
This will make it all but impossible to remove.
are you talking about the vertical black bars? Im getting those too using ginger. I stopped using it. when my trial expires, don't think I'll spend 100 bucks on it without that fix
http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/#patternnoise
Quote from: Audionut on June 27, 2013, 07:04:35 AM
In my limited testing, the pattern noise in video mode is not fixed, http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5609.msg55352#msg55352
This will make it all but impossible to remove.
Thanks for input. I have a few stuck pixels that pops up in higher isos and dark areas. I managed to build a preset in premiere to remove them working with duplicating layers and a garbage matte. I,ll post a tutorial later on...
Works like a charm for me. Congrats!
EDIT: I can edit fine with it in Premiere, but with After Effects I'm seeing that the DNG's hold a bit more highlight info. If I lower the exposure with camera raw in the DNG's I get more detail in seeemingly blown up highlights than with the exposure tool in combination with highlight recovery in the tonemapping (basic) effect with the RAW file.
Here's a pic:
(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5203/tvgj.jpg)
Is that so? Can it be avoided?
Other than that I really miss the lens correction tools for deformation, vignetting and aberration of ACR.
The Ginger HDR tool remains very useful for avoiding editing with proxies with premiere, but I don't know if I would color correct from them.
Made a short tutorial regarding regarding stuck/dead pixels. For those moments you don,t wanna work in acr :)
Good day Mr Hable,
I like your software, however the magenta issue noisyboy highlighted makes it inconvenient for high quality video output. Can you fix this issue? I would like to buy your software when it is usable.
Quote from: Fauxto on June 27, 2013, 09:58:33 AM
Works like a charm for me. Congrats!
EDIT: I can edit fine with it in Premiere, but with After Effects I'm seeing that the DNG's hold a bit more highlight info. If I lower the exposure with camera raw in the DNG's I get more detail in seeemingly blown up highlights than with the exposure tool in combination with highlight recovery in the tonemapping (basic) effect with the RAW file.
Is that so? Can it be avoided?
Other than that I really miss the lens correction tools for deformation, vignetting and aberration of ACR.
The Ginger HDR tool remains very useful for avoiding editing with proxies with premiere, but I don't know if I would color correct from them.
Just downloaded the test version, and this is exactly what i see. Somehow the dynamic range seems to appear lower then in ACR with the DNGs.
The Ginger HDR Toolss are nice but in no comparison to ACR - what would be ok, if I could use the additional dynamic range with other plugins like Colorista. But as already said... somehow there seems to be less information available then over DNG / ACR
There's a problem with your plugin.
I am trying to do 60FPS to 24FPS slow motion so I import my 60FPS footage into AE into a 24FPS composition then when I right click the raw to interpret footage it gets an error that crashes After Effects. I have to kill it with Task Manager. No menu shows up.
This works fine in Premiere Pro.
Is there any fix for this? I really prefer AE. :(
Quote from: ShootingStars on July 21, 2013, 05:53:18 PM
There's a problem with your plugin.
I am trying to do 60FPS to 24FPS slow motion so I import my 60FPS footage into AE into a 24FPS composition then when I right click the raw to interpret footage it gets an error that crashes After Effects. I have to kill it with Task Manager. No menu shows up.
This works fine in Premiere Pro.
Is there any fix for this? I really prefer AE. :(
I had a similar problem. I imported 30fps clips into AE and set the interpretation to 24 fps - this usually works great and just slows down the footage a tiny bit. With the RAW clips imported through Ginger HDR I have the problem that the footage looks super jerky - its the same speed as the original 30fps clip, just missing those 6 frames every second - not a pleasing result :(
Needless to say, if I import the same clip as a DNG sequence and interpret it as 24p, it looks fine.
Is there any way to get around that?
I've been playing around with this and there seems to be a problem with the debayering algorithm.
I made a little video to illustrate the problem. Pay attention to the lines on the lamp shade...
Has anybody noticed any quality loss when using GingerHDR? It's my first time shooting RAW and it seemed like the quickest/easiest workflow but I'm now finding it hard to tell the difference between a H264 shot and a RAW shot.
Quote from: jackdelamare on August 05, 2013, 01:14:51 AM
Has anybody noticed any quality loss when using GingerHDR? It's my first time shooting RAW and it seemed like the quickest/easiest workflow but I'm now finding it hard to tell the difference between a H264 shot and a RAW shot.
Really, I can tell there's better color manipulation, finer noise, and it's worlds sharper. Yeah it's going to take some time before it's at the highest quality. I think the point of it is to debayer and leave all post processing up to the user after the fact.
Quote from: fafalone on July 24, 2013, 10:43:52 AM
I've been playing around with this and there seems to be a problem with the debayering algorithm.
I made a little video to illustrate the problem. Pay attention to the lines on the lamp shade...
But notice in your video how much better the middle portion of the lamp looks in GHDR (more dynamic range). I guess there are trade offs. Depends on personal choice.
Thanks for this great workflow. I think it's the best out there for windows users. 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23UFqiYjfQ
Here's my little test, unlisted on YouTube. RAW certainly has given better colour but I am finding it hard to see much of a difference. Is it just me?
Quote from: jackdelamare on August 15, 2013, 10:53:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23UFqiYjfQ
Here's my little test, unlisted on YouTube. RAW certainly has given better colour but I am finding it hard to see much of a difference. Is it just me?
Raw give a MUCH sharper image!
gives the ability to change white balance and color without the image falling apart.
Has development for this stopped? I've seen no updates on the website...
Hey, has anyone encountered issues recovering highlights with GingerHDR? I've been trying some extreme contrast tests to get used to the 5D MK3 and I noticed something that looks like clamped whites when GingerHDR is used. Anything that appears white will just turn grey whether it be using the Tonemap plugin, the White point from the ceiling from the white balance or any other gamma/curves plugs from AE (the project is set to 32bits of course). I see the informations are there as I can retrieve much more content with ACR from the sheet of paper.
(http://uppix.net/FJDIfW.jpg)
Thanks
ACR reconstructs highlight information when one or two of the RGB channels clip. This as you may have experienced can cause the pink highlight issue. GingerHDR just lets the highlights clip to white instead of attempting reconstruction.
Quick Question:
Whats the best workflow when Im working with a .RAW file from a ML 5D MKIII that was taken on HDR mode? Right now it looks like the wrapper option for ML HDR only works for .MOV files taken under H264?
I love that I can open all of these .raw's natively in premiere and AE but Im not sure what the best way to merge the HDR stuff is (ideally without batch converting everything into CDNG's or EXR)
Hello:
Since I installed ginger hdr, AE only recognizes dng as ginger wrapper in the import dialog windows. "raw sequence" checkbox is grey and i can´t import the entire dng sequence.
Any advices besides unistall the plugin?
Thanks!!!
I've seen this issue posted previously and seem to remember you need to remove the Ginger wrapper. The HDR plugin can still be used but raw handling will revert to ACR.
Quote from: Andy600 on April 25, 2014, 12:05:02 PM
I've seen this issue posted previously and seem to remember you need to remove the Ginger wrapper. The HDR plugin can still be used but raw handling will revert to ACR.
Thanks Andy.
Tried Ginger HDR yesterday since ML converter is too slow. Compared to MLC, GHDR is super fast for creating dng's. Wonder if there is an equally fast way to convert proxies for use with AE and PPro?
i wouldnt build the workflow on a plugin, thats not supported/coded anymore.. the possibilities were limited as well. i think the best way will be now using ffmpeg..
Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, I haven't used ginger HDR in quite some time and now their site is down. Can anyone tell me what happened to them?
I'm not able to register the plugin anymore. Is there a work around?
I assume that the plugin doesn't work for CC 2014. If so, is there anyway I can still make this work with older versions of Premiere?
I need a solution fast! Thanks for your help.
I'm sure there are differing opinions on this, but for me, here's the workflow I've implemented:
Convert RAW to Premiere pro and After Effects most compatible format with a professional format shifting software (http://www.brorsoft.com/video-converter/).
The software solves my problems easily.
Hello everybody. I bought ginger hdr plugin. I have a serial number and I need to download again it but the website 19lights.com do not longer exist. Do you know how can I manage it?
The link is broken,