If you have never seen a Timelapse go here: http://timescapes.org/
If you want to learn all the basics and advanced methods to obtain timelapses go here: https://timelapse.org
Make sure you go to the Forum for the latest discussions on this subject. https://timelapse.org/forums/
.. But if you want to learn how to use the latest Flicker Free ETTR Timelapse feature in ML continue reading...
Flicker Free ETTR Timelapse -- Camera Options -- Prerequisites
- Make sure camera is in M mode, and ISO not in Auto.
- Raw based exposure feedback (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12096.0).
- Auto ETTR (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0).
- Intervalometer (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12584.0).
For the actual post deflicking, you may want to use the post deflicker module (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12585.0) with instructions below, or this Script for deflickering and ramping ACR (.xmp) settings in Bridge (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0) by dmilligan.
ETTR Flicker-Free Timelapse (ETTR-FFT) -- HOW TO USE IT (step-by-step)First we set up all of the ETTR features:1. Go to Canon Menu and set
Image Review to some other setting then OFF. 2 seconds is fine.
2. Put the camera in manual mode
M.
3. Press trash button to enter ML menu.
4. Go to the
Expo Menu and enable
Auto ETTR by pressing set.
5. Press Q if you want to change ETTR settings (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0). Default settings are good but you may want to adjust
Slowest shutter depending on your needs.
6. Press Q and move to
Overlay menu. Make sure
Global Draw in On, all modes. Enable some raw based exposure feedback (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12096.).
7. Go to the
Shoot menu.
8. Scroll to Intervalometer and press
Q to change it to wanted settings.
9. Before we enable the intervalometer we want to preset the camera ETTR so press trash button to return to photo mode.
10. Take two or three pictures until the RAW histogram ETTR hint is less than 0.2
11. Erase the pictures you took and press trash button to return to ML.
12. You should be in the
Shoot menu, scroll to the intervalometer and Press Set to
ON.
13. Press trash button to exit ML menu. The intervalometer is now functioning and the red led will blink as long as intervalometer is working. The intervalometer will start depending on the start trigger (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12584.0) setting.
NOTE: If you set your intervalometer at 30 seconds and your slowest shutter speed at 30 sec, you will have problems. Set the intervalometer at least = Slowest Shutter speed plus the review image setting, in Canon Menu, plus 3 more seconds. So if the slowest shutter is set to 30 seconds, the intervalometer should be set to at least 40 seconds or more.
If you are using the Post Deflicker module, there are some other options you should set.
1. Scroll to
Post Deflicker (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12585.0) and press
Q.
2. Set Sidecar file type to
UFRaw or XMP , and check the other settings i.e 50% and 4 EV.
Watch the camera for a couple of shots to make sure that the images are good and ETTR is settling nice for a long day or night of work.
Come back from time to time to make sure it is doing a nice job...
wait all day .........
While you are waiting for the timelapse lets get going on setting up the software to process the files.
Post Processing ETTR-FFT Basic StepsXMP WORKFLOW for PC1: Make sure your camera time is not ahead of the computer time you will be using.
2: If the name of your CR2 file does not agree with the xmp, change the XMP always. In this manner the xmp will be modified after the CR2. If you do it the other way ACR will not read the files. Always the CR2 Modified Time Stamp mus be before the xml Modified Time Stamp.
3. Once you have the cr2 and the xmp ready for processing you
open all of the cr2 files with ACR at once. If you have too many files for your pc capabilities then do them in groups.
4. In ACR click on Select All. Top left.
5. Make sure that the sliders are not modified in the Basic tab. Do all the exposure adjustments in the Tone Curve tab.
6. Click on Save Images (Bottom Left) and choose your preferred type. I use tiff for best results.
Adjusting exposure for XMP with exiftoolWith this little tool you can also adjust the exposure of the xmps but you cannot ramp the exposure.
Dowload exiftool here: http://download.cnet.com/ExifTool/3000-2193_4-10791213.html
Place it in the directory where the xmp files are. (Always make a copy of the original xmp)
Open the DOS promt (Type cmd at the windows comand line)
Navegate to the directory where the xmp files are located
Type: exiftool -Exposure2012+=x *.xmp
Where x is the ammount of adjustment, could be +ve or -ve.
The exiftool will report back how many files where adjusted.
If you do not put the + sign after the 2012 exfitool will just set the x exposure to all the files. With the + sign it will add that exposure to the xmp.
TROUBLE SHOOTING XMP WORKFLOWETTR is a module to expose your images to the right so as to maximize the signal-to-noise ratio, meaning have lower noise in your shadows and probably better color. ETTR has nothing to do with deflicker, it is just exposing each image to the best of the cameras abilities to try to capture all the details possible. This module has become more complicated and powerful and now you have better control of what is that you are trying to capture best. For more information go here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0
If the change in exposure from one shot to the next is extreme, then ETTR will be going all over the place trying to adjust to each exposure. For this reason it could seem that exposure ramp via AV or Auto ISO is smoother. I have experienced this kind of variation when the interval time in the intervalometer is very long, ie 2 minutes. I never use ETTR with and interval time longer then 1 minute. I had a situation with passing clouds where the exposure was varying quickly and ETTR produced very bad results so a shorter interval time is always better. In some cases it may be better to use other exposure methods.
Also do not set the intervalometer to take pictures every 2 secods because there will not be enough time for ETTR and Postdeflicker calculations. Minimum intervalomenter setting should be above 10 seconds.
ETTR is not an instant perfect photo mode, what I mean is that it can take more than two shots to get the software to converge into an ideal exposure to the right. So if the exposure changes from one shot to the next then ETTR is in a hunting mode, AND in this case do not use ETTR.
Post Deflicker is another beast all by itself. I dont know the math behind this but it must assume some kind of average exposure ramp and it adjusts each shot via xmp file so as to bring the exposure of that shot very close to the average exposure ramp. I assume that this algorithm can also get somewhat screwed if there are a lot of exposure changes from one shot to the next.
Assuming that all is working properly, when you import a cr2 file into ACR or lightroom, it has an exposure adjustment of zero, but when the software reads the xmp file, then the exposure will be adjusted by some amount sufficient to bring the exposure to some predefined standard by the Post Deflicker algorithm. For example when I open the files in ACR without the xmp files and I walk through the images, it is clear that the exposure is changing from one image to the next. If I open the same files accompanied by the xmp file, then the exposure change from one image to the other is minimal, and I can see how the exposure slider changes from one image to the next.
XMP WORKFLOW to ADD an Exposure OFFSET for MACQuote from: ColinWarhurst on September 28, 2013, 03:35:05 PM
Doyle; many thanks, your tutorial worked a treat.
Haven't quite worked 'how' it has worked, but I seem to have ended up with some additional XMP files with the suffix 'original' at the end of them. Perhaps Exiftool is being friendly and making backups of the originals? :P
To clarify (if anyone else is having the same issues) this was my process;
1 - Download and install exiftool FOR MAC (There is a specific Mac OSX package)
2 - Prepare/move CR2 files and .xmp files from Magic Lantern in one folder
3 - Open Terminal
3 - Enter the command as Doyle explained above;
exiftool -Exposure2012+=+*.** /drag folder here containing cr2's and .xmp's
Where the *.** is enter the amount you want to set
eg 0.05, next to the number you have chosen
Too the left is +
+=over expose
-= under exposure
4 - Allow process to run (New/backup XMP files were created for me. I waited until the list had finished)
5 - Select all CR2 files, open in Adobe Camera Raw
6 - FILES SHOULD OPEN, DE-FLICKERED
7 - Select all, make White Balance auto. (Unsure about next bit?...)
Make any edits should you want them? Note, that if you change exposure now, you'll undo the de-flickering!
(Perhaps edits should be done first, then you start the de-flickering command afterwards? Needs testing!)
8 - Close Adobe Camera Raw
9 - In After Affects, import the first CR2 image, select 'Camera Raw Sequence.' Create timelpase!
Many thanks Doyle! Maybe this Mac step by step should be added to that top post/tutorial thread?
More on this subject on the original post here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6789.msg78647#msg78647
Also if you need to rename multiple files in Mac: http://namechanger.en.softonic.com/mac
Exiftool plugin for lightroom. (Thanks Dane) http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAndServices/xEmPLrPlugin/
UFRAW WORKFLOW1. Download UFRAW basic version. You can find it here in many flavors:
http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/
I used the windows for dummies version from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufraw/files/ufraw/ufraw-0.19.2/ufraw-0.19.2-2-setup.exe/download
2. Install it all default settings.
3. Download this little .bat file I created to run it in batch mode here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9z8Y0rg-pu8bE9XaUdQcnJPQzA/edit?usp=sharing
or.. make your own bat file with the following commands:
cd C:\Program Files (x86)\ufraw\bin
ufraw-batch I:\ufrawconvert\*.ufraw --out-type=jpeg
Note that you must have the correct directory for \ufraw\bin
Also note that you must have another directory selected for the place where you put the timelapse files, in the above example it is I:\ufrawconvert\
3a. If you downloaded the bat file you will have to edit. Note that if you placed that bat file in the C: drive you will have to start the notepad as an administrator; this also depends on what type of operating system you have. so before you move it to the C dir, just edit with the necessary changes.
3b. Now save it and copy it to the \ufraw\bin directory. Again you may need administrator permits to do this.
3c. Now create a short-cut (select the file, right mouse, Shortcut) to this file and copy it to your desktop.
If you double click on this link the ufraw batch system will kick in and start processing the files. But before you do this lets go to step 4.
4. Wait for the timelapse to finish, and then we are going to copy the files to the I:\ufrawconvert\ directory, or to whatever directory you set in the bat file.
MAKE SURE YOU COPY THE .CR2 and the .UFR files. There should be a corresponding .UFR file for the .CR2 If the names don't match then we will have to rename them. More on that later. For now just copy them.
5. If the names are not identical then download Bulk Rename Utility here:
www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk (Also in Mac: http://namechanger.en.softonic.com/mac)
6. Open Bulk Rename Utility and navigate to where your files are. There are a lot of options on this little thing but we will only use a couple. Our goal will be to make the .CR2 files names match the UFR files and then to rename the .UFR files to .UFRAW.
Let's assume that the CR2 file says IMG_7064.CR2 and that you want to change it to HP6A7064.CR2
Click on the CR2 file, now look at the third selection column (below the files) on the top row and it should say Remove. On the little box that say first you can enter 4 to remove the first 4 letters from the file. Now the CR2 file should read 7064.CR2. Now look to next selection column where it says ADD and in prefix put HP6A. Now it should read HP6A7064.CR2 If you have it right then select all of the CR2 files and press Rename on the bottom right corner of the application.
But note that the numbers must be corresponding so make sure you do not change any numbers.
Now select one of the . UFR files and reset the boxes that you previously modified. Find the selection column number 11, this is Extensions. Click on the drop-down box and select Fixed, type the UFRAW extension. Notice how the HP6A7064.UFR is now renamed to HP6A7064.UFRAW If all looks good then select all of the UFR files and press Rename on the bottom right corner of the application.
Done!
7. Go back to your desktop and double click on the shrortcut-link you created for the batch file.
If all goes well you will see UFRAW going to work... for a long time
8. Watch the program details because it may not send the files to the destination folder. The first time I ran, it worked flawlessly but the second time it sent the files to a \ufraw\bin directory but I could not find them. In my case it says it is going to the C:\Program Files (x86)\ufraw\bin directory but I found them in the C:\Users\RE\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\UFRaw\bin
To simplify the whole process I went to this directory, went up one level, and made a short-cut which I copied back to my Desktop. So now I have a shortcut for the batch file and a shortcut for the directory where it saves.
After all of the files are processed get them out of there to another DIR and import them to your video software.
Todo: Add some silent pic specific stuff.
At the moment, when using the silent pictures option and post deflicker, sidecar files are not created. Is it possible to create sidecar files for the silent pictures DNGs? Or are there technical differences from CR2s that would make this a more difficult prospect?
Support to XMP slidecar files as follows:
The XMP file need to be converted to UTF-8 format.
1. Download this little converter: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/UTF-8-converter.shtml
2. Process all of you xmp files to change their format
3. Open the images in ACR and the exposure will be automatically adjusted based on the information of the XMP file
I also tested with Lightroom 4.2, ACR 7.1, and ACR 6.2 and all work!!!
Note: make sure you .XMP files have the same name as the .CR2 files. Look in the guide above for Bulk Rename Utility.
@RenatoPhoto
Are you using Adobe on Windows??
It's just my guess, Current code generated a "\n" return code.
But Windows using "\r\n".
Ofcource Windows understanding both "\n" and "\r\n" but it's depend on software programmer(depend on which Windows API use).
So UTF-8 converter is automatically convert retrun code, then we can use xmp , I guess.
If you have both(befor/converted) zip and share it. I can confirm it
ETTR will work on 600D, just needs to stop checking for "raw" quality. Its ok in plain old modes where you don't set sraw.
XMP functionality I haven't tested.
Alex,
The first 1byte is some special char. But it's really strange. I'm checked codes, But i cant find bug.
- FILE* f is not move when we do my_printf
-xmp_template has no special char.
(http://i.imgur.com/Uzbb5sB.png)
@RenatoPhto
Got it.
Notepad delete first special char.
UTF-8 converte is successfully convert 1byte strange char to UTF-8 , so we can read it.
My guess is fault. All files are using "\n".
Yea, that is the problem. Text wise there are no differences between the files that work and the files that dont work so it is that special character that we cannot write via ML that prevents the xmp to be read directly by ACR.
So up to now we still have to use the utf-8-converter.exe (8K) to do the dirty work.
On the other thread there is the code for a LRTimelapse XMP. Now it will be a good thing to figure out what is important for the latest ACR profile to work and to put that code into the XMP.
It's not the special character either, because ML can write it and did at some point. It's the timestamps. See here for my current hypothesis: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5724.msg46537#msg46537
OK, I though the previous commit tested that idea, so I already gave up! As i said before, if I just open and save the files in notepad they work.
Ah! You already delete it Alex.
Anyway, I think ASCII and UTF-8 is compatible when we use only ASCII chars.
I will try to find convert issue on my own equipment.
Modified
You already solved this , I can read current XMP to ACR directly.
I tried to convert the ufraw files to tiff using back processing but it still converted them to jpeg. I just changed jpeg to tiff in the command. Did anyone try this and get it to work?
Quote from: minimimi on June 05, 2013, 06:31:03 PM
The first 1byte is some special char.
Afaik this is a BOM, there actually are two ways to write a UTF-8 file: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#Byte_order_mark ... for example Notepad++ supports both encodings so you can see the difference: http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
I made my first timlapse with ETTR this week. I'm very pleased with the results, the transitions are smooth and without flicker.
Sadly the final timelapse was not really exposed ETTR, but i guess that was more a problem of where to target the spotmeter. :P
I was using the Ufraw-sidecar, which left me with some pink highlights.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3802/9031413561_9ee36449aa.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79846381@N02/9031413561/)
IMG_2918-UFR (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79846381@N02/9031413561/)
A research via google returned like its a known bug for some Canon DSLRs.
As i'm using Windows (or no ability to compile myself) and i'm not familliar with Ufraw i cant' give a workaround at the moment.
I will look further into this.
I just wan't to give a hint to other users it's no fault of ML or the user themselves.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ufraw/+bug/780754
http://sourceforge.net/p/ufraw/discussion/434060/thread/b43582e3/
What amazed me most with the Timelapse is despite of stopping the invalvometer midway
(coz the pictures were getting to dark) the ML-ETTR catched up almost flawless thanks to right ETTR-processing!
Well Done Devs!
Did you use ISO 160 multiples? At these ISOs, the white level is lower than what's declared in dcraw source code, and I'm not sure ufraw takes care of this.
Can you upload a CR2 file?
I shot at ISO 100.
I justopened the original CR2 with Rawtherapy4.0 (i think uses also dcraw), and when i enable "highlight reconstructions" the pinks are gone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3oppxb9j1lh8jhc/IMG_2918.CR2
please share a link to autoETTR module
Quote from: alexunderboots on June 15, 2013, 12:15:13 PM
please share a link to autoETTR module
It's in the nightly builds already.
hi all,
i've already posted somewhere else, because i don't know where is the right place.
anyway, i'm on a 6d with the latest build. i'm trying to figure out how to use auto ettr module with intervalometer and post deflickering, using xmp files and lightroom.
I've already readed all around about that, and i have the xmp working in lightroom, using bluk renamer for the date issue.
But the problem is that i have alway bad values for deflickering.
i will try to explain with realworld examples:
Deflicker target level: -1ev
values from +8 to +9 (instead of what i will expect, from -1 to +1 or something similar. the scene is correctly exposed, and the autoettr seem to work fine)
Deflicker target level: -8ev
the most usable (but not at all) with values from 0 to 5 (or something like that).
now the point is that acr and lightroom can handle only 4 ev stops, and all the xmp is written with 3.99.
am i doing something wrong?
thanks... ::)
is this possible with the ml firmware?
if yes, perhaps someone can explain how it can be done. thx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=PO514P2u8NI
This is quite a remarkable feature, creating flickerfree pics with the ettr function. Even works with silent mode on. Xmp works fine i lightroom. A question. I,m getting out to do i sunset timelapse and I,m not sure whether to keep the settings in manual mode or Av mode? Won,t the xmp level upp the darks in ettr mode both in av and in manual mode?
You can expose with any method you want (even by turning the aperture ring manually); post deflicker doesn't care about that.
I recommend to expose with ETTR, as it will try to keep the highlights and minimize the noise.
Thanks, gonna try it out
I cannot get the Batch to work at all. I've done everything it said. I just don't get it lol. Here's what my batch says. and yes i have UFRaw installed.
cd C:\Program Files (x86)\UFRaw\bin
ufraw-batch C:\Users\Johnnie\Desktop\Timelapse\ufrawconvert*.ufraw --out-type=jpeg
Quote from: DJHaze596 on June 26, 2013, 06:40:03 AM
I cannot get the Batch to work at all. I've done everything it said. I just don't get it lol. Here's what my batch says. and yes i have UFRaw installed.
cd C:\Program Files (x86)\UFRaw\bin
ufraw-batch C:\Users\Johnnie\Desktop\Timelapse\ufrawconvert*.ufraw --out-type=jpeg
You are missing the "\" before "*.ufraw"
ufraw-batch C:\Users\Johnnie\Desktop\Timelapse\ufrawconvert
\*.ufraw --out-type=jpeg
Quote from: glubber on June 26, 2013, 08:51:28 AM
You are missing the "\" before "*.ufraw"
ufraw-batch C:\Users\Johnnie\Desktop\Timelapse\ufrawconvert\*.ufraw --out-type=jpeg
Still doesn't work. i open the batch and it flashes for half a second and does nothing.
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/spr05/cos126/cmd-prompt.html
No questions....
Hi! I tried this feature last weekend and it worked well - it kept ETTRing all night and it resulted in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3Jw1wUxQA
post processed using LRTimelapse, After Effects and GBDeflicker but as you can see I was not fully able to remove flickering, during the transitions there's still some flicker left and yes, I adjusted the frames that have different exposure settings so there's no flickering but here's my problem: two frames with exactly the same exposure have a different histogram. I'll attach those two raw files so you can see:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2ns6wv7vbc2pis/IMG_6296.CR2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kxr5msgzls3pf9/IMG_6295.CR2
As you can see shutter speed was slow so it should not be caused by shutter flicker neither should it be aperture flicker because I unscrewed the lens while holding down the DOF button. Of course I can fix these two frames manually but there are many like these and they are hard to find, and neither GBDeflicker nor LRTimelapse were able to detect and remove it automatically. It's driving me crazy - is there some setting I forgot?
I was using a 650D with a EF 10-22mm lens.
Looks quite nice.
Did you use ML post deflicker? do you still have the sidecar files for these two shots?
Thanks, yes I did use ML post deflicker but I couldn't get it to underexpose during the night - it was trying to brighten up the images considerably resulting in a lot of noise so I started using LRTimelapse which does luminance analysis and exposure compensation as well, or did I miss something?
Here are the sidecar files:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2pzmchfl1en38q/IMG_6295.XMP
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3zmhhvr1svufu5/IMG_6296.XMP
In any case, the EXIF shows that these two RAW files should have a similar histogram because they are exposed exactly the same. Could it be that some in camera post processing like High ISO speed NR, Auto Light Optimizer or something is to blame? I think I turned everything off but there might be something I missed.
Is it possible to modify the ETTR module so it only adjusts in full stops and not in thirds? Or even better, make it delay exposure changes a frame or two so there are no unnecessary changes in the exposure settings, that would make it considerably easier to post process manually. If there's a way to make this work perfectly it'd be fire and forget for holy grail timelapses.
Hi,
There is something that's still not clear for me about ETTR and Timelapses :
Before I explain myself, I guess that you all use ETTR with the "Always On" setting, as I don't see the other settings as useable in a Timelapse configuration...
As I understand ETTR, it uses the picture that has just been taken to decide new settings to be set for the next picture. But that means that the next photo will be taken with the correct settings... that were decided from the previous photo ! Am I correct ?
What I mean is that every photo taken may have wrong settings : with a one-photo-settings shift.
Maybe I a missing some point here, but if I am correct the ETTR would work only for short interval timelapses, without too much change between each picture. If there is too much change in lighting, the ETTR module will try and keep-up, but will always be left behind by one photo...
Another way of ensuring correct exposition of all the pictures would be to set ETTR in "auto snap" mode, and then get rid of all badly exposed photos in post... Without knowing if it would be necessary to delete 2, 3 photos, or none at all if the photo was well exposed to begin with...
Is a 0.1 EV difference that important?!
Or are you taking one picture per hour?
I'm just trying to understand :-)
If the difference is so low as you say, like 0.1EV, then it's no bother indeed.
I'm not taking one photo per hour... but I could :-p
Even one every ten minutes **could** be too much... I don't know, as I said I am trying to understand exactly how it works and how to use it at its best.
Would it be possible to implement yet another mode : pre-calculation ?
It would take a "phantom" picture to compute the histogram, then take the real picture based on the new calculated ETTR settings ? Like an auto-snap, but resulting only in the final image...
You have the full source code, feel free to modify it. I don't see the point for this.
I've had quite a few tries with ETTR timelapse now and I'm very, very impressed. It's the best ramping solution I've tried, and I've tried a fair few. Most of what I've shot has ended up in the bin due to my crappy photography, or the rebellious British weather, but the two shots bellow have worked out ok. Besides the fly on the lens in the first one, and the motion control going tits up towards the end. But ETTR has performed admirably in all.
These have been shot essentially with default ETTR settings, bar increasing the max exposure time and setting the sidecar to XMP. Processing is limited to static white balance and curves, plus ML deflicker. Ramping over a 13 stop range in the first shot!
I've got a few questions/requests if you don't mind.
Is it possible to process these same files through dcraw, using the deflicker in the xmp files? I'd like to compare results but I'm a bit wet behind the ears when it comes to the command line.
Am I right in thinking that if I tweak the deflicker target down a stop, this will offset the post gain applied by the same value? Would it be possible for this to be a slightly more intuitive scale? Not knowing how the algorithm works setting -4EV to get essentially unity makes no sense to me. And could it be adjustable in finer increments, half or third stops?
A utility that allowed you to offset exposure gain in post, whilst maintaining deflicker, would be very handy. Does anyone know of a way to do this?
I've had a few dropped exposures. Not many but enough to be a concern. Am I pushing it to do a shot every 12 secs with a max exposure of 4 secs on a 5D2? They seem to happen when the exposure is on the long side, but that's an impression, not carefully tested fact.
The resultant RAW files sometimes seem to lack lens correction data, but not always. Easily rectified but I thought worth pointing out.
Is there any way that starting the intervalometer could automatically turn the LCD brightness right down? Be a really handy power saving feature.
My biggest request is the obvious one, speed. The amount of time it takes to process is a limiting factor in these day-to-night type situations. Any little optimisations here would make a big difference.
Once again, I tip my hat to you chaps. And I think Canon ought to send you a very nice christmas card, with a very big cheque inside!
Quote from: andyshon on July 24, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
Is it possible to process these same files through dcraw, using the deflicker in the xmp files? I'd like to compare results but I'm a bit wet behind the ears when it comes to the command line.
dcraw can't read the xmp files. Ufraw would read the ufr-sidecars..But I don't know a way to interchange between xmp<-> ufr.
Quote
A utility that allowed you to offset exposure gain in post, whilst maintaining deflicker, would be very handy. Does anyone know of a way to do this?
I would be using LRTimelapse for manipulating the xmp files. Adjust some keyframes in LR an LRTimlapse will interpolate beetween them.
Edit: Btw.... great work! :-)
Quote from: glubber on July 24, 2013, 05:22:36 PM
I would be using LRTimelapse for manipulating the xmp files. Adjust some keyframes in LR an LRTimlapse will interpolate beetween them.
I don't know of a way to adjust exposure in LR or LRTimelapse without loosing ML deflicker data, and from tests so far I'd say the ML deflicker works better in this situation than LRTimelapses, not to mention the time saved... Perhaps if we all peck him on his forums, he'll add ML-XMP import to version 3. ;)
http://forum.lrtimelapse.com/Thread-must-xmp-be-initialized
Is it just me, or does anyone else see a certain choppyness to the motion in the timelapses from ML ETTR timelapse? I see it in my own tests and in the other videos here. A certain constant rythm to the motion. Perhaps from varying exposure time?
Quote from: andyshon on July 24, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
Not knowing how the algorithm works setting -4EV to get essentially unity makes no sense to me. And could it be adjustable in finer increments, half or third stops?
Your photography isn't crappy
K, back on topic. I do agree with you on the finer increments. Sometimes the difference between 1 stop can be very significant.
Quote from: andyshon on July 24, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
A utility that allowed you to offset exposure gain in post, whilst maintaining deflicker, would be very handy. Does anyone know of a way to do this?
Yes we do indeed need a utility to offset exposure gain in post. I asked that a while back and the devs said you could write a script to offset the expo comp values in the sidecar files, but I don't know how to do that. I did also ask for help on writing a script to do that but got no reply.
I don't know if it will work for you but you could try the script in http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7022.0
Do not use it with post deflicker. You also have to change the shadow_level (to 1) and highlight_level (to something very high like 500000) to disable any recovery.
Quote from: andyshon on July 24, 2013, 09:55:48 PM
I don't know of a way to adjust exposure in LR or LRTimelapse without loosing ML deflicker data, and from tests so far I'd say the ML deflicker works better in this situation than LRTimelapses, not to mention the time saved... Perhaps if we all peck him on his forums, he'll add ML-XMP import to version 3. ;)
http://forum.lrtimelapse.com/Thread-must-xmp-be-initialized
Ok... i must admit i only did this once ::) and i did it the most
cumbersome way:
- developing CR2 + ETTR-XMP in LR (flicker free but too dark)
- exporting the developed files to DNG (to maintain the raw-data)
- going into LRTimelapse, doing the usual workflow including the exposurelift in LR but w/o LRT-deflickering
It's a hard way, but i'm still able to tweak my photos in Lightroom postshooting.
@mvejerslev
I think I know what you mean, these sequences do have a look don't they. They're always going to have a relatively small effective shutter angle, which I'm sure is part of it. But perhaps there's more than that, can't quite put my finger on it, but...
@glubber
After some searching it seems this is simple to do with exiftool. A command of:
exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder
will take 0.5 EV off all the exposure values.
After messing with Lightroom and LRTimelapse a long time (export to DNG with corected WB, then normal LRTimelapse workflow) and then manually removing some remaining flicker, I ended up with this:
18 EV ramp down and up. There were a few unnecessary adjustments, especially when adjusting ISO along with shutter speed, but nothing you can't correct.
I'll try again this weekend, weather permitting, and use the sidecar files before converting to DNG.
Quote from: andyshon on July 25, 2013, 03:57:48 PM
@glubber
After some searching it seems this is simple to do with exiftool. A command of:
exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder
will take 0.5 EV off all the exposure values.
Thank you andyshon, i will give this a try!
Awesome stuff!
Another ETTR example, this time performing admirably in some very changeable conditions.
I've shot with default settings and then used exiftool to scale exposures without loosing the deflicker. Processed through LR+AE. Not tested the dcraw workflow yet, having too much fun shooting. Shots that were next to impossible are now easy!
Is there a way to limit the max shutter speed as well as the minimum? Be great to have a bit more control over shutter angle.
Being able to damp the exposure compensation, so it let the shot get a little darker/lighter as ambient brightness changed, would also be great but I guess quite tricky.
What command did you use for exiftool?
You can limit the slowest shutter speed, but not the fastest one (for obvious reasons).
exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder will knock half a stop off all the exposures.
I was thinking for a shot like this you could set the shutter to between half a second and two seconds. Start around one second at 400 ISO and you've got three stops either way but without letting the shutter get too quick, which would help capture a bit of motion blur, and thus smoother video. But I guess changing ISO that much is undesirable?
By default, ETTR slows down the shutter as much as it can, so adding an artificial limit doesn't make sense (it will only prevent it from exposing properly).
Point taken.
Another thought. Is there any way the intervelometer could be set to take the next shot as soon as the ettr module has finished processing? Be sure you were shooting as fast as possible then, and the interval could also adapt to longer exposures as light levels dropped.
if you set a short interval, it should do that.
I'll give it a try. I'd been erring on the side of caution, not wanting to risk dropped frames.
I tried this last night on 5D2 using 5th August build (ad21e3450a3c). 5 sec interval, 2 sec max exposure. All other ettr setting default. Shot started at 0.3 secs, 100 iso and all seemed fine. When the exposure time reached 0.6 secs it started dropping the odd .xmp file, about 1 every 10. As the exposure increased more .xmp files got skipped though the frame timing seemed to stay tight. At 1.3 secs it was skipping every other .xmp and after six frames it locked up, battery out to get it restarted.
Guessing that this was due to pushing the timings, I restarted it with a 10 sec interval, all other settings the same, but this time it crashed out after only twenty or so frames. This is odd as I've run with these settings for hours before with no problem at all, so maybe the previous crash had left some mess behind. My previous tests were with an older build, July 21st I think.
PS. If you add
-ext .xmp
to the end of the exifttool command from a couple of posts back, it makes it run much quicker.
Here's the shot. It seems something was going wrong with the deflicker before it started skipping. Several frames had exposure gain inexplicably set 0.05EV-ish higher than those around them, enough to flicker. And these got more frequent towards the end.
The latest algorithm uses a fast (but less accurate) estimation if timing is tight. A complete estimation takes 2-3 seconds IIRC. I'll try to reproduce the crashes (if you can give more info about them, it will help).
I'm not sure where in the cycle the crash happened. When I came to the camera the rear screen was blank. Trash, play and menu buttons did nothing. The top lcd was as if the camera was metering, number of shots left (999) was flashing, cf light was off, not sure about blue led. Turning off the power cleared most of the display but left the meter and the 999 displays flashing, so I pulled out the battery.
The second crash was at 1.6 secs, with the 10 sec interval (2 sec max shutter), after several missed .xmps. As I say, I've shot with these settings for hours before, with no skipped frames and no flicker.
I was using a fairly slow card, a 64GB ProSpec 420x. The same card I've used before and freshly formatted. Part-twisted EF lens (@f/11 with nd0.9 and nd0.6 grad), full battery. ETTR set to always on with the 2 sec max shutter but all other settings default. Globaldraw on with raw histogram and zebras. 2 sec preview. Deflicker set to .xmp but otherwise default.
Anything else?
5D3 & 17-40mm
Magic Lantern
Auto ETTR
Intervalometer @ 7sec
Post Deflicker - XMP
Import Lightroom to Export Slideshow @ 1080p 24fps
Cheers for all the work guys! Love it!
Quote from: sletts02 on August 17, 2013, 01:17:20 AM
Cheers for all the work guys! Love it!
Nice work agent 86 :)
Quote from: andyshon on July 24, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
I've had quite a few tries with ETTR timelapse now and I'm very, very impressed. It's the best ramping solution I've tried, and I've tried a fair few. Most of what I've shot has ended up in the bin due to my crappy photography, or the rebellious British weather, but the two shots bellow have worked out ok. Besides the fly on the lens in the first one, and the motion control going tits up towards the end. But ETTR has performed admirably in all.
These have been shot essentially with default ETTR settings, bar increasing the max exposure time and setting the sidecar to XMP. Processing is limited to static white balance and curves, plus ML deflicker. Ramping over a 13 stop range in the first shot!
I've got a few questions/requests if you don't mind.
Is it possible to process these same files through dcraw, using the deflicker in the xmp files? I'd like to compare results but I'm a bit wet behind the ears when it comes to the command line.
Am I right in thinking that if I tweak the deflicker target down a stop, this will offset the post gain applied by the same value? Would it be possible for this to be a slightly more intuitive scale? Not knowing how the algorithm works setting -4EV to get essentially unity makes no sense to me. And could it be adjustable in finer increments, half or third stops?
A utility that allowed you to offset exposure gain in post, whilst maintaining deflicker, would be very handy. Does anyone know of a way to do this?
I've had a few dropped exposures. Not many but enough to be a concern. Am I pushing it to do a shot every 12 secs with a max exposure of 4 secs on a 5D2? They seem to happen when the exposure is on the long side, but that's an impression, not carefully tested fact.
The resultant RAW files sometimes seem to lack lens correction data, but not always. Easily rectified but I thought worth pointing out.
Is there any way that starting the intervalometer could automatically turn the LCD brightness right down? Be a really handy power saving feature.
My biggest request is the obvious one, speed. The amount of time it takes to process is a limiting factor in these day-to-night type situations. Any little optimisations here would make a big difference.
Once again, I tip my hat to you chaps. And I think Canon ought to send you a very nice christmas card, with a very big cheque inside!
The second video is awesome.
Not that exciting, but another test using the Auto ETTR & Post Deflicker (loaded in to LR exported using LRTimelapse 24p 1080p template).
what setting for post deflicker should i use for a sunrise timelapse?
with the default -4ev setting i'm getting overexposed nightshots.
if i adjust the deflicker so that the nightshots are well exposed i get overexposed daytime shots.
i'm using xmp as sidecar file.
anyone tried a combination of auto ettr and expo ramping?
Looks like you need some sort of ramping.
I've also shot some sunrise and moonrise timelapse this week, but didn't develop it yet, so stay tuned. I think I'll move post deflicker back to a PC-based tool, so you can play with options.
cool ... maybe if the results are any good you can upload something + your settings
a pc based tool for post-deflicker would also be great!
I might offer some help with the ramping:
Andyshon brought up the idea of changing the expo-Level of the xmps in post by using "exiftool".
Based on that idea i'm working on a way to write out the metadata to a spreadsheet, manipulate it in Excel or "OO Calc" to write it back to the xmps again.
Exiftool can handle that by writing/reading an csv file.
##READOUT to CSV
exiftool -csv -exposure2012 -ext xmp c:\timelapse > list.csv
exiftool -csv -exposure2012 -ext xmp . > list.csv #### xmp/ exiftool/ csv in same directory
##WRITE BACK TO XMP
exiftool -csv=list.csv c:\timelapse
exiftool -csv=list.csv . #### xmp/ exiftool/ csv in same directory
A rough workflow (for Windows):
Software needed: exiftool/ MS Excel, Openoffice calc or sim./ Notepad++ or other editor (only in special cases, see descr. below)
skills needed: medium in all upper three, exiftool is a commandline tool!
1. Read out the Xmps from ML-deflicker to a csv-file
exiftool -csv -exposure2012 -ext xmp . > list.csv
opened in a texteditor the csv looks like this:
SourceFile,Exposure2012
./IMG_4060.XMP,+2.30553
2. open the csv with Excel so you can calculate with it.
(In my country f.e. excel needs a comma instead of point as decimal seperator)
It should look like this:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9601287524_e8d3ea0684.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79846381@N02/9601287524/)
3. copy the second column with the exposure data to a second sheet for doing the ramping calculation.
4. Open your timelapse in LR or ACR and choose your keyframes i.e. first and last frame.
Adjust "Exposure" to your liking and write the value next to appropriate frame in the calc sheet.
for example: first frame -> orig value = 2.30553, chosen exposure: 1.45 -> ramping difference: -0.85533
last frame -> orig value = 0.82060, chosen exposure: 2.11 -> ramping difference: +1.2894
5. Do the math for the ramping values inbetween: ramping diffence first to last frame divided by frame numbers (or sth like this :P )
6. Add the ramping difference to the orig Exposure and copy that column to the second column of your original spreadsheet.
7. Save Excelsheet as csv-File. Open in notepad++ to check if the csv looks like in step 1: comma"," for value separation, point "." for decimal.
8. Write csv file to xmps.
exiftool -csv=list.csv . ("." point is important!)
9. If my workflow is doing right you should have now a flickerfree exposureramping timelapse.
Good Luck
edit: thx finges
thanks for your post glubber, thats a clever way to do the exporamping.
i think i'll try your solution after my next shooting when the weather is better -.-
just to be sure, please have a look at my correction in your text below (marked bold)
Quote from: glubber on August 26, 2013, 06:37:22 PM
4. Open your timelapse in LR or ACR and choose your keyframes i.e. first and last frame.
Adjust "Exposure" to your liking and write the value next to appropriate frame in the calc sheet.
for example: first frame -> orig value = 2.30553, chosen exposure: 1.45 -> ramping difference: -0.85533
last frame -> orig value = 0.82060, chosen exposure: 2.11 -> ramping difference: +1.2894
Nice one glubber. Great idea. Not being a fan of Excel I've pinched your idea and tried to put it into a shell script. Seems to work in brief tests but I aint used it in anger yet.
#!/bin/sh
# Script to ramp XMP exposure values
# expramp [total ramp] [path/to/sequence]
ramp=$1
path=$2
cd $path
seq_total=$(ls -1 *.XMP| wc -l)
steps=$(expr $seq_total - 1)
inc=$(echo "scale=8; $ramp / $steps" | bc)
n=0
gain=$(echo "scale=8; 0 - $inc" | bc)
while [ $n -lt $seq_total ]
do
n=$(expr $n + 1)
gain=$(echo "scale=8; $gain + $inc" | bc)
xmp_file=$(ls -1 *.XMP | sed -n "$n"p)
echo ""
echo "Processing frame $n: $xmp_file"
echo "The gain to be added is $gain"
exiftool -Exposure2012+="$gain" "$xmp_file"
done
So expramp -1.2 ~/Desktop/ETTR_Sequence should ramp ETTR_Sequence down by a total of 1.2 stops. The numbers it produces look right but I haven't actually watched a sequence processed with it yet.
I've been trying to pin down the crashes mentioned above but I aint got that far yet. Now on the 21st August build. It seems all is well at 10 sec intervals, 2 sec or 4 sec max shutter. At 5 sec intervals with a 2 sec max shutter it will reliably crash, but not predictably. I've had it shoot for a while at 2 sec exposure and then crash after the exposure has dropped to 1.3. But it will crash sooner or later. With these settings I've never managed more than about 50 shots. I am forcing fairly rapid exposure changes on it, but then I'm doing the same at 10/4.
The crash seems to be directly after the frame is taken, before any lcd action or beeb. On one occasion I thought I saw it change exposure settings essentially as it crashed, but this has never happened again and I might have imagined it. If I find out anything else out I'll post.
Deflicker on the computer sounds good, if time consuming. Would it speed the shooting cycle up much?
can anyone share their screenshots about sunrise-sunset timelapse, "intervalometer, deflicker and ettr" tab settings on their cameras?
Hi colleagues,
I am an amateur who is trying to make a timelapse video of my city Santander (Spain). Yesterday I first tried a day to night timelapse, and I have to repeat it again because my lens got fogged at the end.
Anyway, I have a doubt with the ETTR tool. I took overexposed photos at the end. I configured my Canon 650D camera this way:
- Aperture: 5.6
- Trigger Mode: Press Set
- Exposure target: -0.5 EV
- Slowest shutter: 11"
- Post Deflicker: UFRaw -4EV/50%
Can I set a highest ISO? Because when my camera changed from 3200 to 6400 with a 10" shutter, it was a complete disaster, since the lights of the city were overexposed.
Regards,
Daniel
Quote from: dalanz on September 02, 2013, 05:43:43 PM
I took overexposed photos at the end.
i also ran into this problem, see above (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.msg70401#msg70401 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.msg70401#msg70401)) for a suggested solution.
good thing is you can do it even after you took the photos.
Quote from: dalanz on September 02, 2013, 05:43:43 PM
Can I set a highest ISO?
you can set the max iso in the normal canon menu.
Quote from: finges on September 02, 2013, 06:43:28 PM
you can set the max iso in the normal canon menu.
Thank you very much. It works. I will limit the ISO value to avoid the exposure of the lights :-)
Hi there,
I use a mac and wondered if anyone could help me? when i import all my images into ACR there are times i would like to drop exposure etc so i select them all but not press synchronise, when i move the slider the rest of the images apply the same amount as the image im tweaking instead of creeping down or up, Eg: Exposure on one image is say +1 and under it is +0.9 if i move the slider on the +1 up a notch instead of the +0.9 been +1 it matches the one i tweaked identically.
Bit of info would be great thanks :)
From previous page:
Quote from: andyshon on August 02, 2013, 03:35:55 PM
exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder will knock half a stop off all the exposures.
Ah excellent that makes it more clear.
Sorry for another question,
On mac where do i put the images? when i run exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder i get
Doyles-MacBook-Pro:~ doyle$ exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder
Error: File not found - /path/to/ettr_sequence_folder
0 image files updated
1 files weren't updated due to errors
Im guessing the 2012 = how many images are in the folder and i change that to how many i have?
Solved: exiftool -Exposure2012+=-0.5 /*drag folder onto here*
Anyone know what type for shadows? i deleted -Exposure and replaced with -Shadows, it started to do something but said no files where updated.
Solved: I deleted the XMP's by mistake
If this doesn't throw it, I don't know what will? The exposure changes and contrast in this shot are pretty extreme. And it copes beautifully. This really is an amazing tool for timelapse.
I'm still having problems with stability. And it's not predictable, at least not to my un-scientific brain. It seems to crash more often with quicker intervals, longer max exposures, but it can happen with any settings. The last exposure seems always to be lacking an XMP file, and is often (perhaps always) a different exposure than the previous frame.
Sorry I can't give better info but I really hope you can find the fault. I'm gonna switch back to an older build for the moment, 21st July seems stable on the 5D2.
The exposure in the above shot was ramped up by one stop in post, using a slightly modified version of the shell script above. Seems to work quite well. If you just need to do simple ramping then this is a cost effective (free) way. Download the script here:- http://www.lightandtime.co.uk/downloads/exramp.zip (http://www.lightandtime.co.uk/downloads/exramp.zip)
the exramp dont seem to work this end... says cant find .xmp's, i placed the file in same directory as images and xmp's and nothing.
ls: *.XMP: No such file or directory
(standard_in) 1: parse error
The path to the sequence is
The total number of .xmp files to process is 0
The total ramp will be
The increment per file will be
(standard_in) 2: parse error
logout
You need to tell it the path to the folder full of cr2+xmp. For example, if the script is on your desktop, as is a folder called ETTRSequence, and you want to ramp it up by 1.2 stops:
~/Desktop/exramp 1.2 ~/Desktop/ETTRSequence
Thanks dude, ill give this a try :)
Is this a mac terminal code or windows? think this could be the problem also? ahhh ill try n find out lol.
Ahhh its for windows, i tried to run it on mac, finds the folder etc but cant find the xmps.
Doyles-MacBook-Pro:~ doyle$ /Users/doyle/Desktop/Test/exramp 1.2 /Users/doyle/Desktop/Test
ls: *.XMP: No such file or directory
The path to the sequence is /Users/doyle/Desktop/Test
The total number of .xmp files to process is 0
The total ramp will be 1.2
The increment per file will be -1.200000
I'm on Mac OS 10.8.5. Works for me but I'm no programer. I didn't have the script in the same folder as the files but don't know why that would break it.
10.8.5 here too, thanks for the help but still no joy, not sure whats going on either. iv tried it out of the folder and in. odd one.
If anyone can understand code could someone explain to me why this code cant find my xmp's?
#!/bin/sh
# Script to ramp XMP exposure values
# exramp [total ramp] [path/to/sequence]
ramp=$1
path=$2
cd "$path"
seq_total=$(ls -1 *.XMP| wc -l)
steps=$(expr $seq_total - 1)
inc=$(echo "scale=6; $ramp / $steps" | bc)
echo "The path to the sequence is $path"
echo "The total number of .xmp files to process is $seq_total"
echo "The total ramp will be $ramp"
echo "The increment per file will be $inc"
n=0
gain=$(echo "scale=6; 0 - $inc" | bc)
while [ $n -lt $seq_total ]
do
n=$(expr $n + 1)
gain=$(echo "scale=6; $gain + $inc" | bc)
xmp_file=$(ls -1 *.xmp | sed -n "$n"p)
echo ""
echo "Processing frame $n: $xmp_file"
echo "The gain to be added is $gain"
exiftool -Exposure2012+="$gain" "$xmp_file"
done
my out come.
Doyles-MacBook-Pro:~ doyle$ /Users/doyle/Desktop/Test/exramp 1.2 /Users/doyle/Desktop/Test
ls: *.XMP: No such file or directory
The path to the sequence is /Users/doyle/Desktop/Test
The total number of .xmp files to process is 0
The total ramp will be 1.2
The increment per file will be -1.200000
Try the tweak below and let me know. It's a guess but might work. Think there may also be problems if your xmp files have .xmp as extension rather that .XMP. Not sure how to stop it being case sensitive.
I'll try and make a more robust version that handles errors a bit better, and possibly add an optional third argument to ramp other parameters other than Exposure2012. But I'm learning as I go along so it wont happen quickly.
#!/bin/sh
# Script to ramp XMP exposure values
# exramp [total ramp] [path/to/sequence]
ramp=$1
path=$2
cd "$path"
seq_total=$(ls -1 "$path"/*.XMP| wc -l)
steps=$(expr $seq_total - 1)
inc=$(echo "scale=6; $ramp / $steps" | bc)
echo "The path to the sequence is $path"
echo "The total number of .xmp files to process is $seq_total"
echo "The total ramp will be $ramp"
echo "The increment per file will be $inc"
n=0
gain=$(echo "scale=6; 0 - $inc" | bc)
while [ $n -lt $seq_total ]
do
n=$(expr $n + 1)
gain=$(echo "scale=6; $gain + $inc" | bc)
xmp_file=$(ls -1 "$path"/*.XMP | sed -n "$n"p)
echo ""
echo "Processing frame $n: $xmp_file"
echo "The gain to be added is $gain"
exiftool -Exposure2012+="$gain" "$xmp_file"
done
Sweet dude!
New code worked and changing xmp to XMP worked, so it is case sensitive, luckily deflicker on dng's produces XMP and not xmp.
Wonder if it can be tweaked to look for xmp and XMP's.
Thanks again man!
also i had to put Doyles-MacBook-Pro:~ doyle$ /Users/doyle/Desktop/test/exramp 1.2 /Users/doyle/Desktop/test to get it too work
Nice one.
Like I say, I'll get working on a version thats less picky.
Cool man, PM me or somin when done n ill grab it for sure.
Hey all, has anyone tried this on a 5D MKII? When I installed ML, on my 5D MKII, the ETTR option is not available under the EXPO menu. Any help would be appreciated . I just stumbled onto this post today, and I am pretty exited to get flicker free time-lapse.
You probably should follow this thread to get the RAW features enabled:
14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5533.0
Hi. I have tryed the last ML nightly build on a 6D. I would like to use the ETTR with day to night timelapse, but I cant get it to work properly. I have followed the guide at http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.0 If I shoot on and one shot manually it sems to adjust the EV but it ower adjust. It suddenly jumps to 25 or 32 seconds exposure. When using the intervallometer it wont change the exposure at all, and only stays at the same vaules as the first picture. is it some setting I am missing ? Or is the feature not supported by the 6D ?
If you have followed the manual and cannot get exposure adjustment with intervalometer action it may be that this feature has not been incorporated to the main builds yet.
but first you should make sure that:
Your camera is on M mode,
In the ETTR module: ETTR is ON, Trigger mode is set to Always On,
In Canon Menu: Image Review is set to at least 2 seconds.
How does one deal with ETTR in very dark scenes with just a couple very bright objects?
Tried to do a night timelapse last night but there was no way I could bring ETTR under 2, it'd jump to ISO 12800 instantly and push shutter speed to 30"...
EDIT: 5DMkIII, ML nightly from a couple days ago
If you want to darken the scene lower the Exposure target to say -2 EV
Found under Advanced ETTR
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on September 28, 2013, 02:42:13 PM
If you have followed the manual and cannot get exposure adjustment with intervalometer action it may be that this feature has not been incorporated to the main builds yet.
but first you should make sure that:
Your camera is on M mode,
In the ETTR module: ETTR is ON, Trigger mode is set to Always On,
In Canon Menu: Image Review is set to at least 2 seconds.
I have followed the manual, and set these values. it seems to work if I shoot pictures manually on by one. But if I shoot with intervallometer, it never adjusts the exposure. I can see the overlay and the ettr values on the overlay, but it does not change.
Earlyer I have user the intervallometer with sunset on a 550D with great success. Is it possible to get this function as a module for the 6D untill the ETTR is functioning properly ?
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on September 28, 2013, 03:45:19 PM
If you want to darken the scene lower the Exposure target to say -2 EV
Found under Advanced ETTR
the problem is that once day rise will come up in my timelapse, then everything will be super dark...(I want a night->day timelapse of a very dark scene with some very bright objects)
Quote from: fcpk on September 28, 2013, 04:31:44 PM
the problem is that once day rise will come up in my timelapse, then everything will be super dark...(I want a night->day timelapse of a very dark scene with some very bright objects)
According to Alex you have to do that in post. I think he set Exposure target to -1EV
Ramping of this Exposure target would be useful but Alex says that is not possible.
Here is an excellent now ramping module for Timelapse:
Intervalometer Ramping Module (adv_int.mo)
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8431.0
Quote from: audunbrekke on September 28, 2013, 04:27:07 PM
I have followed the manual, and set these values. it seems to work if I shoot pictures manually on by one. But if I shoot with intervallometer, it never adjusts the exposure. I can see the overlay and the ettr values on the overlay, but it does not change.
I said earlier:
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on September 28, 2013, 02:42:13 PM
If you have followed the manual and cannot get exposure adjustment with intervalometer action it may be that this feature has not been incorporated to the main builds yet.
Explore this thread, maybe 1% has enabled this feature in his build:
6D - Install guide and raw shooting.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5530.0
The latest build from 1% for 6D is found here:
https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern-6d/downloads
Ok.
another confuse newbie here...hope not too confuse or newbie for you all..hehehe.
i read and read and still have doubts...so i would like to ask.
As other here are asking I also want to do a time lapse from night to day and day to night.
question i still don't grasp..
So, is auto ETTL the substitute for expoRamp?
can i use auto ETTL for night to day and vise versa?
anyone can share setting for this?
for post.
Do i need to use extol or other app or can i just open lightroom?
any one has a explanation for a lightroom workflow?
i'm on mac..with lightroom..Davinci Resolve..FCPX..
thanks so much.
Quote from: saltador on September 28, 2013, 08:31:35 PM
So, is auto ETTL the substitute for expoRamp?
Not sure what expo ramp is, but yes anyway.... ;D
Quote from: saltador on September 28, 2013, 08:31:35 PM
can i use auto ETTL for night to day and vise versa?
anyone can share setting for this?
Yes
Opening post
Quote from: saltador on September 28, 2013, 08:31:35 PM
Do i need to use extol or other app or can i just open lightroom?
any one has a explanation for a lightroom workflow?
Not a mac man. some one else can help..
See here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6789.msg78647#msg78647
Also read the Opening post for mac xmp workflow
but... I think Lightroom should be able to open the cr2 files and read the exposure adjustment included in the XMP file, even if you are on a mac.
Lightroom reads the xmp files just fine. See to it they are named the same as the cr2 files(I, m on a mac)
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on September 28, 2013, 09:34:44 PM
Not sure what expo ramp is, but yes anyway.... ;D
I just finished a test and i feel so stupid right now. It didn't work.
is ETTL supose to change shutter, f-top, iso to adjust exposure?
I know you were joking but i am still not sure what it does.
before this ETTL, intervalometor has a manuel ExpoRamp..i think it was called.
in my test nothing it changing.
i thought i follow all steps but must be missing something.
t3i
auto ETTL always on
intervalometor 5 sec
deflickering on
image review 8sec
is there other module that has to be active?
like auto exposure or something else.
Also read the Opening post for mac xmp workflow
but... I think Lightroom should be able to open the cr2 files and read the exposure adjustment included in the XMP file, even if you are on a mac.
I couldn't get the exiftool think to work..i read the steps and don't get it..don't work.
but i import to lightroom as many said it should work as well but..all my pics have the same settings and nothing changes.
i syncronised the folder..nothing..
i copied the card to my HDD and imported to LR..no xml shows thou..i think they must be hidden..but i'm thinking i must be doing something wrong from the capture moment.
sorry about the rant..anyone could shine some light in here please..????
thanks for your help..all its been all day reading about this..
Quote from: Danne on September 28, 2013, 09:39:52 PM
Lightroom reads the xmp files just fine. See to it they are named the same as the cr2 files(I, m on a mac)
hi.
i only see the CR2 on the folder from my t3i..is the xmp hidden? how to make it visible?
thanks..
i still think that i'm not doing it right from the capture..so..i hope to get clear there too.
thanks.
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on September 28, 2013, 06:11:02 PM
According to Alex you have to do that in post. I think he set Exposure target to -1EV
Ramping of this Exposure target would be useful but Alex says that is not possible.
Here is an excellent now ramping module for Timelapse:
Intervalometer Ramping Module (adv_int.mo)
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8431.0
I am still experiencing weird problems with ETTR on last build.
It ramps up things to ISO 12800+32" exposure... and still shows a dark image on the liveview. However taking a picture with those settings is massively overexposed.
it seems there is some weird bug with liveview and long exposures? this is with -4EV exposure target.
Here's a picture of the screen during one of those tests: (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FwvR3BasNRM/UkdrJzKU7rI/AAAAAAAAKuo/VWhloSC6e7U/w663-h498-no/IMG_20130929_004931.jpg)
EDIT: for what it's worth, this is with highlights display enabled, without them it's still not displaying the right exposure simulation
Quote from: saltador on September 29, 2013, 02:04:54 AM
i still think that i'm not doing it right from the capture..so..i hope to get clear there too.
In the opening post..
11. Go to the
Shoot Tab
12. Scroll to
Slidecar file type and press Q.
13. Set Slidecar file type to UFRaw or XMP , and check the other settings i.e 50% and 4 EV. Press Q
14. Scroll to
Intervalometer and press
Q to change it.
etc
Quote from: fcpk on September 29, 2013, 02:14:33 AM
Here's a picture of the screen during one of those tests
I does not looked overexposed. Look at the histogram, it seems that more exposure is needed to to a proper exposure to the right. For night photography you probably should use WB like 4000.
You could also compare with Canon exposure for reference. Go to bulb mode set your ISO to automatic and take a couple of pics.
You can also import those images to your software of choice and look at the histogram.
the preview is definitely wrong though.
example with max ISO 800:
Here's the preview display
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hSVtIljB_Kc/UkdyC6EHTjI/AAAAAAAAKvc/RS_ttdCN3h0/w663-h498-no/IMG_20130929_011855.jpg)
Here's the image it takes:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-crMUesLHn8I/UkdyEdfdTFI/AAAAAAAAKvk/NUFyB3Uu8WQ/w663-h498-no/IMG_20130929_011902.jpg)
and if I let it go to ISO 12800 it's just massively overexposed, and that's at -4EV exposure
Quote from: fcpk on September 29, 2013, 02:26:33 AM
and if I let it go to ISO 12800 it's just massively overexposed, and that's at -4EV exposure
have you taken a few shots to let ETTR stabilize. It might take more than two..
My crystal ball is down today... and by the way you have not even said what camera you are using and what build. maybe this function is not supported...
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on September 29, 2013, 02:38:26 AM
have you taken a few shots to let ETTR stabilize. It might take more than two..
My crystal ball is down today... and by the way you have not even said what camera you are using and what build. maybe this function is not supported...
Sorry, 5DMkIII, build from sept29
I will take a couple more pictures, thanks:)
I am not seeing the ETTR E value in picture review mode(in the histogram), is that normal?
(it appears in liveview and RAW EV indicator is activated to ETTR Hint)
Quote from: saltador on September 29, 2013, 02:04:54 AM
hi.
i only see the CR2 on the folder from my t3i..is the xmp hidden? how to make it visible?
thanks..
i still think that i'm not doing it right from the capture..so..i hope to get clear there too.
thanks.
Lightroom doesn, t let you preview the actual xmp files. I don, t even see the changes in thumbnail corner in lightroom any more. It is however easy to determine if the xmp was applied by looking at the exposure slider. If it has moved at some point, than you, re ok.
after quite a few pics ettr seems to stabilize here, so I guess it's working as expected. Is it sane/possible to use ettr & bracketting?
Earlier I have had problems to get ETTR to adjust when using intervallometer. I have now reset all settings on my 6D, and in ML. I have also loaded the last ML from the nightly builds. Now the ETTR is adjusting the exposure when using intervallometer. But it adjusts all to much. Every other picture is overexposed and underexposed. It seems to be adjusting to much. It now makes the worst flicker ever. Is there a setting that can set the maximum exposure adjustment between pictures ? In earlier ETTR versions there was a setting for how many seconds the average is calculated over ?
If I shot pictures manually with ETTR it also behaves strange. When it shows the preview it shows a big ETTR value, often -4 or +4, and it says f.eks last exposure 1/250 next exposure 1/2. but when the preview is finished, and the liveview shows, the ETTR values adjusts, and is nearing zero. When next picture is taken it is normally close to the best exposure. If I then look at wich shutterime it has used it is not the shuttertime that ETTR said it should use for next picture.
ETTR by itself optimizes each photo without considering flicker; for that, you need to use post deflicker. These are two independent tools, each one does a single thing, and for a flicker-free timelapse you usually want both of them.
I don't understand what's going on from your description; try reading this: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
Maybe a video of ETTR adjusting things can help.
Can someone describe the current tools to use for deflickering, since the guide in this thread appears outdated?
According to http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8149, the .xmp method has been removed, at least for the Canon 600D, and I can confirm that with the 10/3 build xmp files are no longer output with the cr2s (though for some reason the .xmp output menu item is still there.)
I can't very well use the ETTR mode without some way of deflickering, so I wanted to ask what to do. I'm using Lightroom to process the .cr2s.
Quote from: rsmith02 on October 05, 2013, 12:46:01 AM
Can someone describe the current tools to use for deflickering, since the guide in this thread appears outdated?
Outdated?? I just updated it today!!! Just read it and you might learn something.
Hi Renato, I appreciate your work to detail it so clearly. This workflow seems promising and I planned to test it tonight.
I followed the steps and got stymied by deflickering.
If you see the thread I linked to it indicates that at least for the past month the XMP sidecar files aren't produced by ML (at least for my camera, I can't comment on others), and while it's hinted that there is other software can deflicker, the only one I found is the (somewhat expensive) LR Timelapse one. Am I missing something?
Here it lists xmp output as a "won't fix" to be replaced by a "post tool." https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/issue/1595/600d-no-deflicker-sidecar-file-xmp-or
Without sidecar files this workflow isn't possible to follow and I'm stuck.
New tool is not available yet. I use xmp with every timelapse with 7D and 5D3. For now you cant use ML flicker free feature for 600D.
Thanks for clarifying! I'll check back later.
@RenatoPhoto
In the mac guide theres a lil error iv spotted by the user who used it and must of gotten confused.
Step 7 where it says Select all and choose Auto White balance, this only needs to be done if the xmp's havent been created, if they have, doing this is not not needed, if they dont have xmp's this needs to be done before step 2 or after (only reason i move them is sometimes when using exiftool, if images are on memory card it can be slow, putting them into a folder on your desktop makes the process much quicker). Once all changed to Auto they all need changing back to As Shot (if they was happy with their white balance).
in the same section it says, "Make any edits should you want them" that can be removed.
Cheers.
Is anyone else expeirencing a shutter shake in the in camera intervelometer timelapses? if so, is there anything that neeeds to be done in any of the menus to prevent this from happening? Below is an example i did, i shot it straight at the wall next to a window and a board so it can be used as a reference of the shaking. im almost positive it isnt my tripod and because i shot it 3 times in my house in a stable position.
https://vimeo.com/76573195
Shot canon 5dmk3
Mirror lockup?
i dont believe so, because its happened with almost every timelapse i have done using magic lantern, when i use my control intervelometer, it never happens. weird.
looks like someone may of been walking around... my footage can look like that in mild winds if my tripod isnt waited, also noticed slight shake when iv walked away and come back. try using after effects stabiliser.
Quote from: rsmith02 on October 05, 2013, 12:46:01 AM
Can someone describe the current tools to use for deflickering, since the guide in this thread appears outdated?
According to http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8149, the .xmp method has been removed, at least for the Canon 600D, and I can confirm that with the 10/3 build xmp files are no longer output with the cr2s (though for some reason the .xmp output menu item is still there.)
I can't very well use the ETTR mode without some way of deflickering, so I wanted to ask what to do. I'm using Lightroom to process the .cr2s.
What i do is select all images change WB to auto then back to As Shot, this sometimes creates them not always, if it doesn't export the settings and try again :)
Someone please post an alternative way to downloading UFRAW for MAC, the current download link are outdated , and also not working. Anyone please.
Quote from: blainesuque on October 15, 2013, 10:09:38 PM
Someone please post an alternative way to downloading UFRAW for MAC, the current download link are outdated , and also not working. Anyone please.
I have tested the provided links and they work. Which link does not work?
Also you should find instructions for mac in here: http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html
when i go to download and under mac osx, none of the links will re direct (they all say service unavailable or internal error). The gimp osx link works but in the descripton it says there isnt a stand alone version in that. Im just looking for a direct link to get just UFRAW on my mac so i can test out this flicker free timelapse process. Also to you have any file renaming applications for mac?
http://namechanger.en.softonic.com/mac
But use Google and search for it
what about for the UFraw? any direct link?
https://www.google.com.ec/?gws_rd=cr&ei=z6NdUsT9AYag9QTOwIHYAQ#q=ufraw+for+mac
When you find what works please added here to update the opening post.
will do
would you say its better to invest in a PC just to do this process?
I dont think so.. some one will have done this on a mac. The other option is to download an Oracle VM virtual box and install a windows OS inside your machine. I assume this is doable, I use the VM virtual box in my windows machine and run Unbuntu 64bits.
Check this site: www.virtualbox.org
Hello all
Having some major issues with this. I'm new to doing timelapses in general but I've followed everything by the book and still can't get a flicker free timelapse.
Here's the timelapse I shot today. I'm using a 5d Mark III with the Oct. 13th build.
Camera settings:
M mode
24mm
ISO 100
f/16
1/25 sec - 1/8 sec
Auto ETTR: Always ON
Trigger mode: Always ON
Slowest shutter: 11"
Exposure target: -0.5 EV
Highlight ignore: 0.2%
Midtone SNR Limit: 6 EV
Shadow SNR Limit: 3 EV
Post Deflicker: XMP
Deflicker percentile: 50%
Deflicker target level: -4 EV
Intervalomater:
Interval: 2 sec
Start after: 3 sec
Stop after: 910 shots
Manual FocusRamp: OFF
I copied all the .cr2 and .xmp files to the hard drive in a new folder. I used Bulk Rename to rename the XMP's to match the .cr2 files. I imported the catalog into lightroom and made sure to sync the folder - I see all the signs that it's working. The XMP's are being read, I see the little -/+ signs at the corner, and when I'm develop mode I can see the exposure changes for each frame.
I brought them into AE and didn't touch anything in ACR. I simply imported them, made a new comp, and exported to test the flicker and there seems to be a lot. Did I miss a step or do something wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm working on Windows 7 btw. Thanks in advance
How do you import to after effects after working the files in lightroom? Not sure the metadata follows to ae from lightroom? You could try to mess with metadata settings in lightroom though. Think I had som troubles going from lightroom to after effects myself once. Are the pics flicker free in lightroom? I usually export my processed files from lightroom to jpegs and import the jpegs to after effects then creating a moviefile from there
Oh I thought that the metadata would've followed. It could've been that. I'm gonna try to export .jpegs but looking at some of the photos, some of them are darker than others - not by a lot but enough to cause the flicker most likely, but I thought that was the whole point of the xmp's to begin with.
The xmp should take care of flicker. at least for most of the photos. Sure you didn,t fiddle with the exposure setting in develop mode in lightroom? I got some serious flickering too once but only when having a real long interval like 1:30 between shots. Found out from Renatophoto that he also had some problems with xmp;s having trouble with intervals longer than 1 minute. Don,t seem to be the case here though
Nopee haha 2 second interval for me. And I didn't touch ANYTHING in develop mode. I did do everything correctly though right? As far as setting everything up?
Quote from: DocMartensLutherKing on October 17, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
Nopee haha 2 second interval for me. And I didn't touch ANYTHING in develop mode. I did do everything correctly though right? As far as setting everything up?
I dont think ETTR can work properly at 2 seconds interval, try 10 seconds and limit the slowest shutter to 5 seconds.
Ahh okay fair enough.
I'm gonna try to shoot another one tomorrow but hopefully I can try and salvage this one. Thanks a lot!
This script should make it easy to modify or ramp xmp deflicker settings in Bridge.
https://github.com/davidmilligan/BridgeRamp/blob/master/BridgeRampingScript.jsx
This should be a lot easier than the exiftool trick, and you can do a ramp as well. If you're modifying the post deflicker exposure, make sure to check the "additive" box. This will add the ramped value to the existing value, perserving the deflicker (might be a good idea to backup your xmps before running this script, incase you do something wrong, or I did something wrong in the code ;))
The script should give you a new context menu item, so just select the images you want to ramp, right click and go to "Ramp ACR Settings..." at the bottom.
I opened a new thread (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0) for this, get more info there and report bugs, requests.
Thanks dmillgan, I have added your great script to the OP!
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on October 16, 2013, 12:00:55 AM
I dont think so.. some one will have done this on a mac. The other option is to download an Oracle VM virtual box and install a windows OS inside your machine. I assume this is doable, I use the VM virtual box in my windows machine and run Unbuntu 64bits.
Check this site: www.virtualbox.org
Can the batch processing of the CR2 and UFraw files be done in any adobe programs? for example photoshop or bridge?
Yes
sorry to bug, but do you know how to go about that?
Quote from: blainesuque on October 18, 2013, 07:49:23 PM
sorry to bug, but do you know how to go about that?
what i meant was merging the raw photos and the metadata , not just batch renaming. I have the whole adobe suite, and if there is a way to do that through photoshop,bridge,lightroom then id love to see the direction on that if possible. Maybe there is a thread on that in hear i have not seen yet?
Have you followed the excellent first post. All info is in there.
Do you ask for how to use the xmp deflicker files in bridge? If so, simply open up your cr2 files together with the xmps (same name) settings will automatically apply
I have but i am not on windows, most of the apps and programs are windows based, doesnt run smoothly for me trying to run windows programs on my Mac. Thats why im looking for a solution within the adobe creative suite. Oh really ? that simple? hmmm i will give it a try, thanks a lot for responding Danne! Im assuming that you can save the files with the deflicker xmp as a batch?
From the cam you get *.cr2 files and *.xmp files. Make sure that the name of the files are the same, ie each raw file needs a corresponding xmp file. If you open ten raw files in Adobe Camera Raw they open and show some value of exposure on the Exposure slider. If it all of them read zero then it is not working for you. If each image has an exposure then the xmp information is beeing read into the ACR and adjusting the exposure acordingly. You may want to open one of the xmp files and find the exposure filed, it shuld read something like crs:Exposure2012=+1.22. This would mead that post deflicker calculated that this image needed a 1.22 EV increase to bring it in line with the rest.
Perfect, thanks so much. At first i was trying to use the UFraw method, thats what i was asking about mostly, but i think ill be switching to XMP for my workflow. Is there any difference between the two?
What is the advantage of ETTR besides capturing more detail for the image? Also will Post Deflicker perform well without it? every time i use it with post deflicker its way overexposed, in camera raw its at +500. My settings are not drastic either, shooting inside house lighting out a window with medium sunlight brightness at 1/25 shutter, iso 100, f4.
Quote from: blainesuque on October 18, 2013, 10:40:08 PM
What is the advantage of ETTR besides capturing more detail for the image?
That is the advantage plus other things: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0
Quote from: blainesuque on October 18, 2013, 10:40:08 PM
Also will Post Deflicker perform well without it?
It should, I have not tried it.
Quote from: blainesuque on October 18, 2013, 10:40:08 PM
every time i use it with post deflicker its way overexposed, in camera raw its at +500. My settings are not drastic either, shooting inside house lighting out a window with medium sunlight brightness at 1/25 shutter, iso 100, f4.
Dont know what you mean by +500.
Try a lower snr 4/2 or shut it off. Learn how to use it..
Hi, I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I'm not too sure what search terms to use to find a thread with the answer, so I'll just ask the question here and hope someone can help me.
Using the .xmp workflow, this creates a 'custom' .xmp file per image. How can we then batch process the .cr2 images in ACR without first converting to jpg? Because now the .xmp files are no longer the same so you can't just duplicate the .xmp file, right?
Thanks,
gkw12345
Quote from: gkw12345 on October 22, 2013, 03:20:57 PM
Using the .xmp workflow, this creates a 'custom' .xmp file per image. How can we then batch process the .cr2 images in ACR without first converting to jpg? Because now the .xmp files are no longer the same so you can't just duplicate the .xmp file, right?
To clarify this step I expanded the Opening Post as follows:
XMP WORKFLOW for PC
1: Make sure your camera time is not ahead of the computer time you will be using.
2: If the name of your CR2 file does not agree with the xmp, change the XMP always. In this manner the xmp will be modified after the CR2. If you do it the other way ACR will not read the files. Always the CR2 Modified Time Stamp mus be before the xml Modified Time Stamp.
3. Once you have the cr2 and the xmp ready for processing you open
all of the cr2 files with ACR. If you have too many files for your pc capabilities then do them in groups.
4. In ACR click on Select All. Top left.
5. Once the cr2 files are loaded, make sure that the sliders are not modified in the Basic tab. Do all the exposure adjustments in the Tone Curve tab.
6. Click on Save Images (Bottom Left) and choose your preferred type. I use tiff for best results.
I've been running some tests with ETTR and I'm really impressed with the results!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzqz11w7989tu7j/ETTR%20Test.mp4
Started at 1/15, iso 100, f9
Ended at 5 seconds, iso 400, f9.
That's a VERY challenging sequence to shoot, yet it came out beautifully. The stutter is caused by the long intervals between pics.
I've got a few questions that I hope one of the dev's can answer :)
Is it possible for the camera to deflicker the sequence after it has finished? This would cut down on the length of interval required (10 seconds is too long for most shots).
What's the minimum required time for ETTR to work? Could we shoot sequences with a very fast interval (1-4 seconds) without it breaking? I've yet to test it fully.
Why don,t you use dmilligans script? It,s for postproduction deflickering.
@renatophoto. Found exiftool plugin for lightroom. Might be handy for dngs and such ? http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAndServices/xEmPLrPlugin/
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on May 26, 2013, 01:35:58 AM
Ramping exposure for XMP for Adobe Bridge
...
On the drop down menu you can select any of the xmp settings, default "Exposure2012"
In Start enter the amount to adjust the first image
In End entered the amount to adjust the last image
Clicked additive (To add or subtract the exposure rather than to change it)
click ok
Hey bro,
Thanks for your speedy reply the previous time. May I know what this amount is?
It seems completely abstract to me.
Thanks!
gkw12345
Quote from: Danne on October 25, 2013, 10:13:01 PM
@renatophoto. Found exiftool plugin for lightroom. Might be handy for dngs and such ? http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAndServices/xEmPLrPlugin/
Have you tested?
thanks for the tutorial on how to shoot ETTR timelpase!
I'm afraid I can't get it to work properly on my 5D Mk III - as soon as I start the intervalometer, the exposure get's locked! Despite it worked properly during standby in liveview, as soon as I start the intervalometer, the shutterspeed won't change anymore.
Any idea what I could be doing wrong?
thanks in advance!
Gerfried
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on October 28, 2013, 01:14:38 PM
Have you tested?
Yes, tested, working on my mac so means it will work for both mac and windows I suppose. Some messages about manually creating some step but fully working creating xmp:s from converted dual iso dng;s.I find it useful when wanting metadata-changes following into after effects. Doesn,t work without xmp sidecar-files.
Plan on doing a vid-tutorial on the dual-iso workflow, mac, lightroom, dmilligan script etc when I find some time...
//D
Does this require manual white balance? I seem to get the ettr working for a few moments, after which it seems to keep the shutter at the same value for the rest of the time. Any ideas or common mistakes?
You should check this little script out http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
This tool will give you full control over all raw settings in post production of your raws or dng:s, including deflickering
Hi guys!
I've been playing with this amazing feature and ran into some troubles. I had 5d3/ML 2013-10-24 with recommended settings in first post. Manual 14mm lens. 15 sec interval, slowest shutter 32, highlight ignore 2%, Midtone SNR limit 5EV, Shadow SNR limit 2 EV. First part went very fine, but after the first half I had a small jump in exposure. Not a big problem. But look what started happening in the end... Any ideas what was the problem here? Thx!
Nice timelapse!
Why don,t you try deflicker with the above script?
My guess is that your shuttertime collided with the interval, so etttr-and deflicker-modules have no time to adjust exposure:
QuoteNOTE: If you set your intervalometer at 30 seconds and your slowest shutter speed at 30 sec, you will have problems. Set the intervalometer at least = Slowest Shutter speed plus the review image setting, in Canon Menu, plus 3 more seconds.
I guess your timelapse turns out brighter than the original exposure was due to the ML-deflicker.
So the shuttertime could be over the critical 10 seconds (with interval 15").
Quote from: glubber on October 30, 2013, 09:11:38 PM
My guess is that your shuttertime collided with the interval, so etttr-and deflicker-modules have no time to adjust exposure:
I guess your timelapse turns out brighter than the original exposure was due to the ML-deflicker.
So the shuttertime could be over the critical 10 seconds (with interval 15").
That's probably it. It did overlap. Will do another test today. Thx for the idea!
Now we need automatic interval ramping with settings like "ETTR exporure time" + user set X seconds. This will avoid such glitches and will run fully automatic.
Quote from: roopepal on October 29, 2013, 03:56:21 AM
Does this require manual white balance? I seem to get the ettr working for a few moments, after which it seems to keep the shutter at the same value for the rest of the time. Any ideas or common mistakes?
I have the very same problem as stated 2 posts above yours ...
Any ideas? Would love to get ETTR + Intervalometer working!
@roopepal, @gerfried,
Check the min shutter speed setting for ETTR, it sounds like you are hitting this limit. ETTR wont set the shutter speed slower than this setting, instead it compensates with ISO. Once you hit min shutter setting and max ISO, it's not going to change the exposure any more (it can't go any further). Was the ISO changing? Was your scene lighting actually changing? You're using the 'Always On' mode not LV right? (step number 3 in the OP) and you have image review on? Do you hear the beeps? How many? (3 indicates expo limits reached, it should also say this on the screen)
Perhaps read the OP again, very carefully. I think you probably just need to make sure all your settings are correct. http://xkcd.com/627/ ;)
I'm so far behind.....when I go to the exposure tab in ML I do not see an Auto ETTR option...yes 2 min pic review is checked. Entered ML with 'M' on the dial, then dialed to Bulb....still no Auto ERRT option. Thoughts? (recent install on 6D)
did you activate the ETTR in the module tab?
Quote from: dmilligan on November 04, 2013, 06:26:29 PM
@roopepal, @gerfried,
Check the min shutter speed setting for ETTR, it sounds like you are hitting this limit. ETTR wont set the shutter speed slower than this setting, instead it compensates with ISO. Once you hit min shutter setting and max ISO, it's not going to change the exposure any more (it can't go any further). Was the ISO changing? Was your scene lighting actually changing? You're using the 'Always On' mode not LV right? (step number 3 in the OP) and you have image review on? Do you hear the beeps? How many? (3 indicates expo limits reached, it should also say this on the screen)
Perhaps read the OP again, very carefully. I think you probably just need to make sure all your settings are correct. http://xkcd.com/627/ ;)
I don't know what the problem was, but it has been solved using the latest November releases.
@dmilligan that's the flowchart I usually send out to people ;) 2 persons have tried independently without success ... wether ISO nor shutter speed was changing, despite sun setting down in frame. Also I didn't hear any beep, which I get now with the latest nightly build (before I've tested Oct10th till October 28th). But thanks anyway! :)
gerfried.guggi Thank you.
How do we set the MINIMUM SHUTTER?
Quote from: blainesuque on November 06, 2013, 06:32:44 AM
How do we set the MINIMUM SHUTTER?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.0
P.S. It is frustrating when people just ask before they even read the manual and try to understand!
Can you combine Auto exposure mod with flicker free and intervalometer instead of auto ettr for 1 minute intervals. This has probably been asked before sorry.
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on November 06, 2013, 01:25:15 PM
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.0
P.S. It is frustrating when people just ask before they even read the manual and try to understand!
totally understand, but i have read it and still cant find the thread or description of setting a minimum shutter, it only says direction of setting the slowest shutter. My question would be would i have to shoot in shutter priority or is there a option to set the MINIMUM shutter inside the Magic Lantern Menu. Yesterday evening i shot a sunset timelapse and i got massive exposure values switching towards the peaking of the sun going down.
Quote from: blainesuque on November 06, 2013, 09:39:42 PM
totally understand, but i have read it and still cant find the thread or description of setting a minimum shutter, it only says direction of setting the slowest shutter. My question would be would i have to shoot in shutter priority or is there a option to set the MINIMUM shutter inside the Magic Lantern Menu. Yesterday evening i shot a sunset timelapse and i got massive exposure values switching towards the peaking of the sun going down.
I think we need to clear up what you're asking: "minimum shutter" is kind of vague since shutter is talked about in terms of 'speed' or 'duration' (that's why it's better to use the term 'fastest' or 'slowest' shutter). If you are asking if there is a way to set the maximum fastest shutter
speed (IOW minimum shutter
duration), then no there isn't. If the image is going to overexpose, ETTR won't stop making the exposure shorter until the point that it hits the limit of the camera. If you were to set a maxium shutter speed less than the limit of the camera then your image could potentially be overexposed and blown out, when it didn't need to be. Please describe a situation where this would be desirable, I cannot think of one. I'd much rather have a picture with a shorter shutter duration than I intended, than have one that is blown out and unusable.
https://vimeo.com/78790129
Here is a timelapse that worked out ok for me doing a night to day timelapse of the stars in Joshua Tree. Everything seemed to work out fine with just very minimal flicker. (after a applying the GDB deflicker in premier its flawless)
https://vimeo.com/78789808
But I cant seem to get a day to night timelapse locked down yet, here is one from this evening. At the end of my shoot, i scrolled through the shots in camera and everything looked really good. But when i got home and imported into camera RAW, the exposures were all messed up drastically, the first 2 shots would be good then the next 3 or 4 would be totally overexposed, and that order would just keep repeating itself. I also got a lot of small jumps in the frame(not sure if it was wind or not, but only happens on these sunset timelapses i try, never at night.) Any idea why this happened?
It was shot on a canon 5dmk3
slowest shutter at 1/30
highlight priority was at 6% for the sun flare
sidecar was xmp
and everything else was at default.Ettr level was good the whole time whole shooting
Is it the sidecar files that creates this since the pics looks alright otherwise?
If so I would advice you to skip internal sidecar files and use dmilligans cool deflicker script in adobe bridge instead.
Quote from: blainesuque on November 07, 2013, 04:36:36 AM
https://vimeo.com/78789808
But I cant seem to get a day to night timelapse locked down yet, here is one from this evening.
Maybe your xmp files where never read by ACR. To test this hypethesis you need to open one of the cr2 files and look at the exposure compensation, if there is none then that is your problem.
or
Maybe your interval is too short for ETTR and Post-processing to work properly.
Quote from: RenatoPhoto on November 07, 2013, 01:21:47 PM
Maybe your xmp files where never read by ACR. To test this hypethesis you need to open one of the cr2 files and look at the exposure compensation, if there is none then that is your problem.
or
Maybe your interval is too short for ETTR and Post-processing to work properly.
well in ACR when i scroll through the photos, the exposure values do change so i know its reading it correctly. I think you might be right on the intervals though, i shot it at every 10 seconds because it was right at sunset (40 mins until the sun is down) and didnt want too quick of a timelapse. I will try again with a longer interval, it seems like that might be the problem because my night long exposure timelapses never have a problem with that. Also do you notice the jump in the timelapse? i want to beleive it can be slight movement during the timelapse but i dont think it is, my cameras and set up with really stable, could it be the shutter effecting it?
Thanks for replying by the way!
10sec interval may be too short. I never tested below 20 seconds.
thanks for this guide. i just shot my first time-lapse using ettr and dual-iso. it came out great. i can't wait to do my next one.
i have been updating with the nightly builds for the last week. Suddenly my XMP files are not being read by camera raw. I formatted my cards and re-installed the latest build of Magic Lantern , as i thought it would be the solution to this problem but it wasnt. I tried again and again and still ACR wont read my xmp files, which is very weird because last month i was doing a couple timelapses and it worked no problem. Is this a issue again in the newer builds? I have read the thread where it use to be a issue in the beginning stages back in May by setting your color space to sRGB instead of AdobeRGB as a workaround. But this whole time i have been shooting on Adobe RGB and havent had a problem with a timelapse until now. Can someone please point me into the right direction or let me know if theyre having the same problem?
Just to make sure these are my settings just like the tutorial front page.
Autto Ettr = always on (default settings)
Post Deflicker = XMP (default settings)
Intervelometer = 15s
My camera is in Maunal Mode, custom WB, and color space Adobe RGB
what doyou think?:
https://vimeo.com/83355543
of couse following instructions in this post.
Very cool :)
Quote from: arturochu on January 15, 2014, 07:33:56 AM
what doyou think?:
https://vimeo.com/83355543
of couse following instructions in this post.
Yay!! At least one person reporting back with success!
I tried a timelapse today on my 7D. I was using the silent shutter feature (taking images in live mode) using the power saving feature to turn off the display inbetween snaps. I am using Auto ETTR. One image every 10 seconds.
Out of 500 images, 4 images came out like this:
http://grant.org/mgrant/pub_images/bad-image-example.jpg
Can anyone shed any light on what's going on here?
Hi all:
Complete newbie here (I just installed ML for the first time last week). I am using the stable 2.3 version (on a Canon 550D), and can't find any of the options discussed here in my menus; AutoETTR, for example, isn't there.
I figured that these options would be in the new alpha/nightly builds, but I'm a bit confused, since ETTR does appears in the user guide, which I understand applies to the stable version (it says at the top "v2.3 - User's Guide"):
http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide#exposure_to_the_right_ettr
So, can anyone confirm whether these options are available only on the non-stable builds?
Thanks.
Paul,
Did you enable these modules in the modules menu? You need to enable them first then power cycle the camera to get it to reboot and load them.
Michael
@mgrant: at least on my camera, ETTR is not on the Overlay menu ;)
Quote from: mgrant on February 14, 2014, 09:09:42 AM
Paul,
Did you enable these modules in the modules menu? You need to enable them first then power cycle the camera to get it to reboot and load them.
Michael
I don't have a modules menu, hence my confusion. I'm using the stable 2.3 version, not any of the nightlies. If I open the SD card on a computer, I don't see any "modules" folder either inside ML.
So, it's either:
a) I hid the "modules" menu by accident when I first started playing with Magic Lantern (it did happen to me with other options).
b) As I suspect, the modules, scripts and other goodies are available only in the nightly builds, not in the "stable 2.3" version.
Can anyone confirm which is it? ;)
You need to run a nightly... stable 2.3 doesn't have them.
Thanks. That's what I suspected.
OK. I read all 8 pages of this thread over the last few hours. Stopping to test and learn along the way. Here are a few questions I had, that I didn't see answered. Sorry if they were and I missed it. There is a lot going on here.
In post #30, page 2,
Morghus had a question about the Deflicker XMP over brightening the cr2
Quote from: Morghus on July 18, 2013, 11:48:11 PM
Thanks, yes I did use ML post deflicker but I couldn't get it to underexpose during the night - it was trying to brighten up the images considerably
I also notices that the xmp files were making my images +2ev (or so) over when viewed in LR.
(http://nickzimmerman.com/assets/uploads/2014/03/SAMPLE.jpg)
Which I've learned means nothing if you are going to Exposure ramp them anyway with @dmilligan awesome script. Right? That prompts my next question.
Post #157 and 167 page
Quote from: Danne on October 24, 2013, 05:41:17 PM
Why don,t you use dmilligans script? It,s for postproduction deflickering.
If dmilligan Bridge script does it all, can we do away with xmp deflicker and just use ETTR?600D
ETTR Default Setting
10" Slowest Shutter
Link Dual Iso OFF
Deflicker Default Setting
Trigger Mode in Halfs DblClick (should have been Always ON)
10 Second Interval
I made a booboo by not have the interval long enough. Should have had it a 15 seconds for 10" Slowest Shutter.
@RenatoPhoto Thank you for your OP! Very much appreciated! In step #13 you missed a "-" (minus sign).
Also, I was hung (confused) on this step, "RAW EV indicator: OFF Here you can press the set button and select ETTR hint. This will display in the RAW histogram a hint of how many more EVs you can expose to meet the ETTR parameters set in previous menu."
You have OFF in bold, but this needs function needs to be ON.
Thank you to all that are making this possible!
What would your settings be in a night to day timelapse if you during the night part you want to have car light trails (at least 5 seconds long)?
Quote from: NickZee on March 02, 2014, 09:39:42 AM
If dmilligan Bridge script does it all, can we do away with xmp deflicker and just use ETTR?
My understanding was that the in-camera deflicker uses the linear raw data to do calculations, where as the the script uses linearised data from the jpeg previews. Thus the in-camera deflicker is more accurate. I may have misunderstood this though..?
My script uses a preview of the actual output from ACR to do the deflicker. From that perspective it may actually be more accurate, not less. The curve for ACR's exposure slider is not perfectly linear and somewhat 'image adaptive' i.e. putting in 1 EV in there doesn't mean ACR is always going to be exactly 1 EV in the output (or not all areas of the image are going to be adjust by exactly 1 EV). So even if you measured 1 EV perfectly in the RAW file, ACR may not actually correct by exactly 1 EV. Additionally with my script you have the flexibility to deflicker when using strong amounts of other ACR settings that tend to cause additional flicker b/c they are 'image adaptive' (such as highlight and shadow recovery and clarity).
If you think of ACR as a black box, the in camera deflicker only has the capability to make a guess as to what it's going to do. My script can actually examine the output and make sure the 'black box' did what it expected, and then make additional corrections. This is the whole reason the script does multiple iterations.
If you use the ufraw workflow, this isn't the case (ufraw is not a 'black box') and the in camera deflicker should be approximately the same.
TBH, I don't think there's going to be really any noticeable difference between the two methods. From my experience, deflickering in post is far more convenient, and you can have a lot smaller interval between pictures (in camera deflicker requires about 5-10s to run), which is important when you get to night time and you need on the order of 30s exposures.
Please feel free to do a comparison though, I could be wrong.
@arturochu I think 5 seconds is a good place to start experimenting. It really depends on how fast the cars are traveling. Go out the night before and shoot a few test stills to see the trails you get.
@dmilligan. Thank you for the thoughts. I've been using the Bridge script and everything seems wonderful.
Hi all, im totally newbie in timelapses.
Mi 6d crash all the time in the ettr test pic, this is the log:
ASSERT: FALSE
at ./ASIF/ASIF.c:486, task ASIF
lv:0 mode:3
Magic Lantern version : v31337.TRAGIC.2014Feb28.6D113
Mercurial changeset : fd027ab570aa (unified) tip
Built on 2014-02-28 19:16:45 UTC by User@PC.
Free Memory : 354K + 1855K
Can anyone help me plz??
THX
I solved with the last nighty build
Hi all,
Spent some time getting this to work over the last few days, I am deeply grateful you guys have made this is possible on a camera as cheap as a 600D.
However, when i have been shooting, the size of the "stop" changes are really obvious in my timelapse videos (i.e. the jump in exposure is too big) is there a way of bringing the jump size down?
Kind regards
Rob
@dmilligan
I've been trying your script and having a few problems. My first test worked pretty well but I thought not quite as well as the original in-camera deflicker. But I'd processed the shot with default ACR setting, where as the in-camera deflickered version I was comparing it to had been tweaked. So I tried to synchronise the ACR settings and re-run the script, at which point things started to go wrong and I've not had any joy since. I've been trying to do too much at once so I really don't know if the script or my system is the problem. I've never used Bridge before, which doesn't help. I've been trying to get my head around it but I'm really not in a position to make a coherent fault report at the moment, except that it often seems to freeze and when I try to quit Bridge I get an error message saying 'resize is undefined'. Sorry for the non report report. I'll persevere if I get the chance and post more coherently if I can.
I've been trying the latest builds for ETTR timelapse on a 5D2. I've not been getting the crashes I was before and ETTR seems to be functioning really well, but I'm still having problems with deflicker. In the shot below about 20 frames, distributed seemingly randomly through the sequence, did not have xmp files associated with them. And there was three sections where the brightness jumped 0.38 stops for about 150 frames, before jumping down again. Looking at the back of the camera during the shot, global draw did not seem to be working properly. It had been at the beginning but by half way through the image and intervalometer info was displaying correctly but no histogram or zebras, instead some text that looked like code. I've forgotten what it said I'm afraid, should of written it down. Despite this ETTR clearly functioned fine.
Quote from: andyshon on April 10, 2014, 06:14:47 PM
@dmilligan
I'm really not in a position to make a coherent fault report at the moment, except that it often seems to freeze and when I try to quit Bridge I get an error message saying 'resize is undefined'.
I've seen some intermittent issues with 'resize is undefined'. It typically has something to do with Bridge not giving me valid image preview data. I request the preview from Bridge as 'BitmapData' and then I call a function on it called 'resize' which is supposed to be a function of that class. If Bridge gives me bad data for some or another reason then that function isn't there and you get the 'resize is undefined' message. I think it has something to do with the cache and synchronization stuff. Supposedly I'm in 'synchronized' mode, so that when I request stuff from Bridge, it blocks until the data is valid, but it seems like sometimes that doesn't happen. I don't think there is anything I can really do about as its probably a bug in the Bridge scripting engine.
TLDR: Best bet is to select all the photos and flush the cache and then wait for the previews to regenerate, then run the script.
QuoteIn the shot below about 20 frames, distributed seemingly randomly through the sequence, did not have xmp files associated with them.
The deflicker might not have had time to finish running. What was your interval time between shots? Getting below about 10s and you can start running into the occasional 'dropped' xmp file, if for some reason the CPU was a little busier. It also has to contend with ETTR's analysis using the CPU as well.
I have noticed that the ETTR can be linked with an external shutter. This can make the shutter time get over 30'' ? If yes, is there any means of linking the ETTR with the Bulb Timer from ML? Because I would like to have a bigger minimum shutter in the beginning to make its end more smooth (shooting a sunrise).
Another question, the ETTR module can work with Tv mode, what makes the camera choose the aperture based on the expo. Is there any ways of combining the ETTR with the Tv mode to get more Ev's during a night to day timelapse, without getting big flickering and neither confusing the ETTR?
When you are in a semiautomatic mode like Tv or Av, ETTR sets the exposure compensation, and acts more like a 'correction' to Canon's metering.
So for example, you're in Tv and Canon meters the exposure and then takes the image. ETTR analyzes this image and determines how much it could be shifted right (or left if it's overexposed) without overexposing and sets that as the EC. The next photo you take will still be metered by Canon, but it will be offset by this EC.
Using Tv or Av with ETTR for night-day timelapses is not particularly useful because you are still relying on the Canon metering system somewhat. It's best to bypass it completely and let ETTR set the exposure itself.
Quote from: diogo.fagundes on April 18, 2014, 01:57:33 AM
linking the ETTR with the Bulb Timer from ML?
I miss this one every time I get into a cave (which sadly doesn't happen often :P )
But on my todo list there is an algorithm to meter a long exposure from a really really dark test picture in one iteration. Whether I'll be able to make it work... we'll see.
Quote from: dmilligan on April 11, 2014, 11:25:17 PM
If Bridge gives me bad data for some or another reason then that function isn't there and you get the 'resize is undefined' message.
Yeah, this seems to be what's happening. I think it may be caused by something outside Bridge. Or at least it seems to happen less if Bridge is the only application running. I'm also seeing problems like below (sometimes), where certain frames are processed very differently from those around them in one iteration, the following iteration will then try to correct them. This was after 3 iterations of the script. They weren't there after two iterations and the fourth started correcting them. This may have started happening after a 'resize undefined' problem, not sure.
(http://www.lightandtime.co.uk/downloads/flashframes.jpg)
Quote from: dmilligan on April 11, 2014, 11:25:17 PM
Getting below about 10s and you can start running into the occasional 'dropped' xmp file, if for some reason the CPU was a little busier.
I was shooting every 12 secs with 6 sec max exposure, but some of the frames with dropped xmps are short exposures, so did have over 10 secs processing time. I still have an old build (21st July 2013) that has served me well for ETTR. With this I can reliably shoot with the intervalometer set to 8 secs and the max exposure set to 4 secs.
This is a very n00bish question as I have never shot a day-to-night timelapse.
The ML settings override the manual Canon settings, right? So they take care of the changes in exposure going into night?
Is there any ways of using ettr without giving all the preference to the shutter? I mean, because sometimes I want a timelapse at night with an interval time lower than 30 sec, but every time I set the ettr it makes my shutter speed go to 30 sec and my ISO to the minimum as possible. It would be great if we could lock the iso or give preference to the iso till it reach a determined value.
Quote from: diogo.fagundes on April 20, 2014, 02:52:02 AM
Is there any ways of using ettr without giving all the preference to the shutter? I mean, because sometimes I want a timelapse at night with an interval time lower than 30 sec, but every time I set the ettr it makes my shutter speed go to 30 sec and my ISO to the minimum as possible. It would be great if we could lock the iso or give preference to the iso till it reach a determined value.
You can set the maximum shutter speed for ettr. There's no reason in my mind to lock the ISO or give "preference" to it.
Quote from: austinmarti on April 20, 2014, 01:50:19 AM
The ML settings override the manual Canon settings, right? So they take care of the changes in exposure going into night?
Yes, ML takes control of the Canon settings.
Quote from: dmilligan on April 20, 2014, 04:33:32 AM
You can set the maximum shutter speed for ettr. There's no reason in my mind to lock the ISO or give "preference" to it.
ohh... sure... I completely forgot that. hahaha
Thanks!
I went out this afternoon to test my capabilities shooting the day-to-night holy grail using ETTR.
https://vimeo.com/92484919
Next time I'll be sure to keep our very happy bichon named Max away from the tripod legs. :'(
So for shooting I let Magic Lantern ETTR take care of everything. I did not use the Magic Lantern de-flicker. I used LRTimelapse and Lightroom for the post processing. Exposures ranged from 1/60th to 5 seconds at ISO 100 using the "Sunny" white balance (I think it's 5200).
I mainly wanted to see how well my understanding of Magic Lantern would "ramp" with ETTR. There's certainly no complaints from me on this avenue.
Hi,
I recently found this fantastic Magic Lantern script for my timelapse experiments as I shoot mainly long day2night2day timelapses. Without any kind of bulb ramping it's practically impossible. I did some tests with the bulb ramping feature on the stable ML version (v2.3) a few weeks ago, but I wasn't happy with the harsh ramping, which made post processing difficult. Then I discovered this ETTR and thought that this may help. However, I have not had much luck with my tests. Two time already the ETTR has somehow "freezed" during shooting fixing the shutter speed to some low value like 1/25 sec although the night is dark (requiring at least 15 sec exposure). In the morning all I find is some 300 totally black photos and another 300 all-white overexposed photos due to non-working ETTR. I wonder why is this? I have followed the ETTR for some time during the intervalometering in each trial to make sure it works properly, and it does. Then I close the display (turn it facing inwards) to save battery, is this where it goes wrong? If this is the problem, is it possible to use ETTR with closed display?
I have also found that my camera drains the batteries quite fast when using ETTR. With battery grip, I can normally take at least 1500 photos. With ETTR (in room temp) I can reach only 600-1000.
My setup:
EOS 600D + battery grip
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8
ML Nightly.2014Apr29.600D102
Settings like in this tutorial: http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/ettr
Camera in Manual mode, by default 1/250 sec, f/4, ISO 100
Max shutter speed was set to about 30 sec.
Quote from: Saramaki on May 05, 2014, 04:45:49 PM
Then I close the display (turn it facing inwards) to save battery, is this where it goes wrong?
Quite possible, since ETTR relies on the QuickReview image.
Okay, I did another test with display on and ETTR worked very well for the whole 11-hour test period. So it seems that I have to keep the display on when using ETTR, which is a slight problem at least in cold outdoor conditions. Any workaround?
Also, I noticed that the low battery performance was due to one faulty 3rd party battery in the grip. It was noticeably swollen, so it's straight to recycling bin. Last night I tested using one original and one 3rd party battery and I got 11,5 hours of operational time in room temps.
It works and it is spectacular! Thanks for all your work, devs!
http://vimeo.com/94424480
Hi Alex
I have been using this method for some time now. I have not had any major problems. but lately when i shoot timelapses using the Intervelometer and Auto Ettr or sometimes just the intervelometer by itself. when im done and in post processing i see that sometimes the image size changes or crops randomly at some point during the timelapse but usually towards the end. My average photos per timelapse is around 300 photos. Below is an example of what im talking about, do you have any idea of what may be causing this?
ps. I also get a messege "RAW ERROR" on the display sometimes and im not sure why or what that is coming from.
(https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/92940314@N03/14056320019/)
(https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/92940314@N03/14056319919/)
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/92940314@N03/14056319919/ (https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/92940314@N03/14056319919/)
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/92940314@N03/14056319919/ (https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/92940314@N03/14056319919/)
I hope someone can point me in the right direction.
I am using a 5DIII, LV mode, silent picture, timelapse, A-ETTR always on, sidecar files selected, review 2 sec.
I get the dngs OK, but no xmps are created.
Am I doing something obviously wrong?
Cheers
The ML deflicker was not made to work with silent pics. It uses the QR data and there is no QR for silent pics. It would be theoretically possible to add deflicker for silent pics, but I don't think anyone is going to work on that as the preference is now for doing deflicker in post (this would be time better spent working on a post tool).
If you use Adobe you can try this: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
dmilligan
I guessed that was the issue: pity, as shutterlesss timelapse is a godsend.
The issue with non-sidecar dngs out of silent is that they don't have an EXIF data, ie ISO or exposure time.
Thus, for holy grail A-ETTR silent work, the dngs are nearly useless: I think?
For normal (fixed exposure) silent picture timelaspse there is a simple work flow:
1. Note aperature, ISO, exposure etc;
2. Capture Silent DNGs (no ETTR);
3. Ingest into Lightroom;
4. Use LensTagger to add back the missing (silent picture) EXIF;
5. Use LRTimelapse to create your masterpiece!
Bottom line: looks like I should steer clear of sunrise and sunset for silent picture timelapses!
So I have read through this thread and the one for the script about deflickering.
I have also done some research on ETTR but can someone help me understand this a bit more?
ETTR is good for maintaining details that might otherwise get lost if underexposed?
I did a time lapse and followed all instructions using ETTR and the deflickering afterward. However, I didn't see why there was any advantage to using ETTR. I was shooting a time lapse during daytime so maybe ETTR isn't needed in this situation? Is it best for changing light scenes (ie. sunrise/sunset)?
Anyway, everything works well for this workflow. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around the benefits of it all and what exactly ramping exposure and such with the script besides deflickering does.
Quote from: zeinikuzeiniku on June 03, 2014, 05:14:08 PM
I was shooting a time lapse during daytime so maybe ETTR isn't needed in this situation?
Right. If you're scene lighting isn't changing then you don't need this. Just set the exposure in M mode and shoot your timelapse.
Quote from: zeinikuzeiniku on June 03, 2014, 05:14:08 PM
Is it best for changing light scenes (ie. sunrise/sunset)?
Exactly. Shooting a sunrise or sunset is much more challenging (or impossible) without this workflow.
Thanks. That is what I thought when I was looking into all of this.
I noticed when I was doing some tests that the ETTR was jumping up and down from one shot to the next. How do you get it to even out?
Will this be mitigated in post delficker even if ETTR is "hunting" around for the correct exposure?
Quote from: zeinikuzeiniku on June 04, 2014, 02:25:24 AM
Will this be mitigated in post delficker even if ETTR is "hunting" around for the correct exposure?
Yep. The deflicker script takes care of it.
Well this is some pretty powerful stuff then and will be so useful! In fact, this is the main reason I haven't tried time lapse because of the flicker issue. This will help out a lot without extra equipment or software for the time being. I'm very grateful for this script.
Also, when people talk about ramping exposure via the script what does this exactly mean? Manually adjusting certain groups of frames for correct exposure?
Gradually/smoothly adjusting some parameter (could be exposure, could be WB, contrast, or anything else) over time from one value to another value (like key framing). I use the ramping a lot with WB in day to night timelapses since the WB changes drastically over this time period. In a sunset it typically goes from daylight around 5500 up to 6500-7000 during twilight and then way down to around 3500 once it's fully dark. I use the ramping to smoothly change the WB like this so that there isn't just a sudden noticeable change in WB. You can do the same for any other ACR setting.
There's a special ramping mode for exposure that is additive. This allows you to preserve the deflicker but change the overall exposure (either ramp it or just increase/decrease it by some constant value for all frames). I prefer to just set exposure first then run the deflicker, but you can do it either way.
Just read the entire thread, one question. Are the post processing XMP and UFRaw guides in the OP two different methods that produce similar results or are they both required? If the former, why wouldn't everyone just use XMP since it's less than half the steps of UFRaw? There must be some sort of advantage. Maybe I misinterpreted the OP.
Quote from: smier on June 17, 2014, 12:16:39 AM
If the former, why wouldn't everyone just use XMP since it's less than half the steps of UFRaw?
Not everyone owns (expensive) Adobe software. UFRaw is free software.
Quote from: dmilligan on June 17, 2014, 03:37:38 AM
Not everyone owns (expensive) Adobe software. UFRaw is free software.
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
I just did my first test yesterday (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1K63THnvV2ubmdaNjI0bV96RzA/edit?usp=docslist_api) evening. It worked out pretty good but still had some flickering. I looked at the XMP values and several times they jump quite large distances. I had a Highlight Ignore of 5%, 5 Midtone SNR, 2 Shadow SNR. Any advice? This is on a 6D
To troubleshoot this, you can download raw_diag.mo from here (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10111), and select the "Dump RAW buffer" option. This will save a DNG copy of each picture (it's the raw buffer used for ETTR, among others). If there are obvious differences between the CR2 and the DNG, upload them.
Thanks Alex, I'll try this tonight after work!
So I just had another go, seems to be a lot less flickering when I increased the highlight ignore to 8% from 5%, but it still occurs.
Here's the video (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1K63THnvV2uS0ZXNjlHMnRSOTA/edit?usp=sharing)
around the 30 second mark there's several flickers. I found the frames that occur at one of these flickers. Between 8564 and 8565 the camera exposure settings are the same and there is no significant change in the scene lighting but the deflicker exposure value changes significantly. On 8565 the shutter speed changes but the deflicker exposure value correctly compensates it.
CR2, XMP and diagnostic DNG files can be found here (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1K63THnvV2uSVphM0tYRG5qSmc&usp=sharing)
So I guess the camera just didn't calculate the correct post deflicker exposure value?
If you open the two DNGs (8564 and 65) and apply the exposure compensations from the XMPs (2.14 and 1.81) you will get two identical exposures. This is confirmed on the histograms of the developed JPEGs (in gimp for example, it prints the median value, which is where metering is done at default settings).
So, the deflicker algorithm worked well.
However, if you apply the same exposure compensations on the CR2's, you will not get identical exposure.
BUT
If you extract the raw data (dcraw -4 -E *.CR2 *.dng) and you compare it pixel by pixel, they are 100% identical. There is a vertical offset of 14 pixels, if you want to try. Of course, between 8564 and 65 there is a visible difference in the clouds (surprisingly enough, the tree leaves did not move at all).
So we have two sets of images, with 100% identical raw data, which get rendered with different exposures. What could be the difference?
I'll let you guess the answer. Hint: bug confirmed, will fix. Great catch.
Very interesting! Glad I could help troubleshoot some stuff. Let me know if there's anything more I can test.
Here's a quick fix: deflick.mo (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/deflick.mo), let me know if it works.
(I'll push the code tomorrow, since it contains the answer to the above riddle, and I don't want to spoil it right now :P )
To fix existing footage, I recommend dmilligan's deflicker script: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850
I'll test the module when I get home. Remoting to my home computer and trying out the script you linked, procrastinating at work :P
The module seems to be fixed! Zero flickers in today's time lapse. Had to cut it short cause it started to rain, you can see the leaves start to droop at the end.
1080p (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1K63THnvV2uZ0hEX2N3c3QxazA/edit?usp=sharing)
4k glory! (https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B1K63THnvV2uLVpRcGNFQmQ2OG8&export=download)
An observation — to save transfer speed time I tried lowering my RAW size to medium and small but both had "RAW ERROR" displayed on the screen when it tried to calculate the ETTR. Looking at this thread (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11134.0) it seems to be a known bug though.
Thanks the quick fix on the module. The script you linked also worked to deflicker the previous time lapse as well, thanks for that too.
Working with sRAW/mRAW is an enhancement, not a bug. These modes have different raw buffer configuration than plain RAW, at least on one camera (the one I tried back then :P )
And after reading this ( http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=730030 ), I think it's better not to support these modes. Also, all my current and upcoming raw processing tools will rely on plain RAW quality setting.
edit: the main image in the POTN thread is down right now; here's a mirror:
(http://www.nattress.com/sRAW_v_RAW.jpg)
I've noticed during a night time lapse that my 6d only uses full stops of ISO (100, 200, 400, .., 6400) and not any of the intermediary ISO levels between the full stops. Really makes night scenes less flexible to minor changes compared to day scenes. Is there any plan to modify this in a future nightly?
No, because you will not get any improvement by using intermediate ISOs. The deflicker module is there for a reason.
Is this because shooting different ISOs and modifying exposure in post result in the same image? For example, if I take a photo at 5", ISO6400 with the exposure lowered equal to ISO4000, and take another photo at 5" ISO4000 they will result in the exact same image?
Does it work in reverse too? An image shot with ISO4000 with it's exposure increased in post equal to ISO6400 will look like a photo shot at ISO6400?
Because intermediate ISOs, are by and large, simply digital manipulation of the analog ISOs.
Analog ISOs are useful, digital ISOs are not.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10111.0
Great thread, I had no idea.
It is a rare, sunny, blue day here in Seattle without a cloud in the sky. I am headed up to Kerry park to capture an ETTR sunset timelapse of the Seattle Skyline with Mt. Rainier in the background between 8 to 10 P.M. Sunset is at 9:11 P.M.
I have a
Quick Question about step 17.
Take two or three pictures until the RAW histogram ETTR hint is less than 0.2What should I see after taking a few initial test shots? Does ETTR automatically adjust the ISO & shutter speed to get the .2 hint setting? Do I need to change the Highlight/Midtone/Shadow settings in AUTO ETTR to get this .2? I am a bit confused by what I should see and do at this point in the process.
Here are the settings I will be using tonight. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
AUTo ETTR
- Slowest Shutter = 32 seconds
- Highlight Ignore = 2% (For downtown City lights. No Sun or Moon will be in Frame.
- Midtone SNR = 5 EV
- Shadow SNR = 3 EV
Intervalometer
- Interval is set to 1 minute starting after 5 seconds from leaving the menu for 120 shots which will yield 5 seconds of footage at 24FPS
Post DeflickerAdobe XMP, 50% Deflicker %, at -4EV target level[/li]
Ok thats I all I have for now. Wish me luck. I will post my results/questions soon as I process it. Thanks a bunch!
You just need to take some shots first for the algorithm to settle on the correct exposure settings. Correct exposure settings may result in something other then 0.2 hint, depending on the settings you have chosen.
To speed up the process, I recommend shooting an underexposed image first, as AETTR will settle on the correct exposure settings faster (should only need 1 shot for correct settings).
Highlight ignore of 2% is probably a little high for city lights. The issue here, is that 2% is very large for the twilight period, and will probably generate to much unwanted overexposure. Depending on how many lights there are, and more importantly, how much of the frame they occupy, you probably want to try a smaller percentage.
Thank-you Audionut for the response,
After shooting a timelapse last night, I am understanding the process a bit better.
Just have a couple more questions:
- Is the small number on the Global Overlay Histogram Panel the ETTR Hint?
- A couple times while I was taking a long exposure, Magic Lantern stopped taking pictures because someone passed in front of the frame. Did ETTR/Intervalometer/DeFlick stop because their was a dramatic shift in the exposure due to a large figure blocking out the shot for a few seconds?
Thanks again for the input.
1. Depends on the "RAW EV indicator" setting in the histogram settings. Will either be ETTR hint, or Dynamic Range.
2. Well, Intervalometer doesn't care, nor Deflick. ETTR shouldn't care either when working alone, just take longer to settle on correct exposure settings I guess. ETTR/Intervalometer working together, not sure. It shouldn't affect things, did you get any error messages, or log files on the card?
If you can find a way to consistently reproduce the problem, please file a bug report here (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/issues?status=new&status=open).
Thanks for the feedback Audionut,
Upon reflection, I think I caused ML to crash/stop because I hit the review button right after the people passed in front of my frame to check the image. This evening I went to the same location and did another timelapse without interruption using a much lower Highlight ignore, which I could see was reflected in the Histogram. Pretty cool! I will attempt post processing tomorrow, and am certain to have more questions.
If my understanding is correct, ETTR captures as much data as possible by making the exposure as far as possible to the right without blowing out the highlights. From there I can use the XMP Adobe Bridge script to manipulate the exposure to gradually get darker towards the end of the time-lapse when the sun is set. I will be figuring it out tomorrow and the next day and will have a few questions.
Quote from: CreativeEndeavor on July 02, 2014, 08:46:06 AM
Upon reflection, I think I caused ML to crash/stop because I hit the review button right after the people passed in front of my frame to check the image.
Yeah, that will do it.
I think I am getting the hang of this! Thanks!
I have been continuing my ETTR, silent DNG timelapses, and have a suggestion/idea.
As is recommend in the first post, ETTR needs greater than 10 seconds or so to 'kick in'.
My results today confirm that a 10 second interval is marginal, ie I got strange results and frames with 1/8000 shutter, when the base shutter was about 1/250. Going to a 15 second interval stopped the frame 'dropping', but I still had a step in exposure about halfway through a 300 image capture.
I really only need ETTR for sunrises and sunsets, as at other times exposure, front to end, doesn't change that much, and is recoverable through LR/LRT.
I will wait for an EXIF enabled silent DNG before attempting a holy grail sequence, however, my thought is this. In the timelapse area, rather than only be able to ETTR every frame, how about an ability to carry out an ETTR every nth frame. Thus over a 60 min sunset sequence, you would, say, enable an ETTR 'reset' every n images.
Also the timelapse would only start AFTER the ETTR had reached a solution, ie the timelapse could tolerate the extra delay between the ETTR frames. This approach would also allow any timelapse interval, ie less than the ETTR solution time.
To LRT these steps will clearly trigger the auto key framer.
Bottom line: I wonder if an extra user variable of carrying out an ETTR every nth frame, and allowing for an ETTR solution, would be a useful addition?
If you're using silent DNG, I assume you have liveview on consistently? Set the trigger mode in AETTR to always on.
Yes, I do that.
I don't understand these "frame drops" you are describing then.
In liveview with always on, AETTR is always adjusting the exposure as necessary. Since you describe a sunset/sunrise, the exposure doesn't change that often, and is consistent. This is easy for AETTR to calculate.
As far as I know, the initial "kick in" period, is simply for AETTR to make the initial exposure adjustment. ie: You have the camera at ISO 3200 - 1/10s - f/1.4 (for example), and the scene requires some exposure values darker then that.
Question about Ramping and Aesthetics: When reviewing my test time-lapses of Kerry Park, Seattle, I noticed the sky gets a bit lighter/bluer when the pollution in the air is no longer being reflected back to the image sensor by the setting sun. This time-lapse transition looks unnatural to me (Go figure RIGHT?!.) Should I add a Keyframe as soon as the light reflected back to the camera by the pollution is no longer visible to darken the rest of the images from that point forward?
What tips and tricks do fellow photographers here have for shots like the Kerry Park, Seattle timelapses I have posted?
Constructive Criticism very much appreciated.
P.S. I do not know what silent DNG is. Can you provide me a link to a summary of it on Magic Lantern?
https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/tip/modules/silent/README.rst
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12523.0
Keyframe is the first thing I would try.
Audionut
I plan to carry out a few more experiments with my 5DIii, silent DNG, AETTR pandora timelapse, to see if I get any 'strange' behavior.
Regarding the option to request an AETTR every nth frame in a timelapse sequence, I believe if someone could add this it would be a worthwhile feature, ie it would allow any interval, as you could tolerate the nth and nth + 1 interval being longer to ensure an AETTR fix.
You should confirm the existing functionality is broken first, before considering yamlmo (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?action=search2&search=yamlmo&show_complete=1)
Sorry, it's not a case of being broken. It was a suggested enhancement, as if you use ETTR my understanding was you need an interval of, say, 10 seconds or more to allow ETTR to settle on a solution.
If following a holy grail strategy, 'all' you need is to adjust the exposure through the change at regular intervals., eg every 1-2 Ev change in the scene.
Of course you could BRAMP as well, however, like others I see ETTR as the way to go.
At the moment we can only ETTR continuously, ie every frame, with the inherent interval restriction.
Of course I could be totally wrong and thus I will defer to my betters.
Quote from: garry23 on July 07, 2014, 04:50:07 PM
Sorry, it's not a case of being broken. It was a suggested enhancement, as if you use ETTR my understanding was you need an interval of, say, 10 seconds or more to allow ETTR to settle on a solution.
If your exposure is way off (like when you start), possible it could take that long, but once your sequence is going, it should be much shorter, as the exposure is not changing that much from frame to frame (only minor adjustments are needed). I've never used ETTR for timelapse in LV mode though (too much heat and battery usage). In regular photo mode, it just analyzes QR data after each pic, and it only takes a second or two (I recently did a timelapse with slowest shutter 16", interval 18"), and I think most of that time is just waiting for the QR data.
Good points.
However, I've made a decision to only use silent dng mode, ie save shutter life for other work.
Will keep practicing and reporting.
Cheers
Garry
@ Garry23, do you get any corrupted DNG in your silence time lapse? Last time I tried I got 3 bad frames in a batch of 400+ frames. Wondering if I had some settings wrong?
PS can't wait to play with full size silence pictures... Exciting time.
@barepixels
I tried another AETTR + silent-DNG timelapse at an interval of 15 seconds this morning, deliberately with a boring (no clouds) sky.
The captured images appeared stable, ie the overall exposure frame to frame looks contiguous.
Without any EXIF it is difficult to really see how things are changing.
As for settings I use the following:
- AETTR = Always On
- Dual-ISO = OFF
- Global Draw = On, all modes
- Histogram = RAW HistBar
- Video = all off
- Intervalometer = ON, 15s
- Silent Picture = Simple
BTW I know that many/most use 'normal' shutter mode when taking timelapses; however, I have decided to only do timelapses with shutterless silent-DNGs. Of course, if the full size silent experiments that Alex is leading work out, this will mean we will have a FF silent timelapse capability, which, with embedded EXIF will mean ML, once again, has a killer feature!
I'm not convinced that silent picture timelapses are somehow inherently better for your camera. Shutters last for a very long time and are fairly cheap and easy to replace (esp. if you think about the cost in terms of per picture, or per timelapse sequence). By the time you wear out a shutter it might be time for a new camera anyway (and it's great excuse to tell the wife).
I'm sure you are not wrong, however; maybe naively, as a mechanical engineer, I think of all those mechanical movements occurring when I 'take an image', it just feels right that it is 'better' to achieve the same thing electronically.
I will likely not worry too much about this as I will not likely be taking lots of timelapses.
BTW this slowmo of a shutter and mirror working is fun to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfSW4eW25g
Quote from: Audionut on July 07, 2014, 08:23:44 AM
https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/tip/modules/silent/README.rst
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12523.0
Keyframe is the first thing I would try.
Thanks Audionut! Will take a look at this soon.
Quote from: CreativeEndeavor on July 03, 2014, 09:43:21 PM
I think I am getting the hang of this! Thanks!
Nice time-lapse! The POV is awesome with that mountain in the background.
Have trawled the web and it seems what I am 'logically' looking for is not available...unless of course I'm wrong!
I know I can keep the mirror up in LV mode, but having LV on all the time burns my battery.
Does anyone know if there is a way, using ML, to undertake a normal timelapse sequence, ie .CR2s and not using silent DNG, and keep the mirror up from the start to the end, ie only actuating the shutter each shot.
In LV with AETTR set to always on, naturally it has a constant stream of data to analyze, so by the time the intervalometer activates, there is no delay.
I'm off to find any mention of this 10 second delay nonsense in the OP, and erase it!
@Audionut
Any insight into my non-LV mirror always up during timelapse question. Is it possible?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?action=search2&search=mirror&show_complete=1
@audionut
Thanks for the assistance short of actual help ;-o)
I will keep my mouth shut.
Quote from: garry23 on July 08, 2014, 04:45:31 AM
I will keep my mouth shut.
No need for that. Just try doing a little leg work first. :)
I've polished the OP a little. Hopefully it is a little easier to understand.
I hope to do some more work later, and add some silent pic specific stuff.
Quote from: Audionut on July 08, 2014, 06:33:52 AM
I've polished the OP a little. Hopefully it is a little easier to understand.
You linked the wrong script of mine, that one can't deflicker ;)
should be this one: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
Fixed, thanks.
Has anyone experienced ETTR blowing out the highlights on night to day timelapses? Unfortunately I do not have the debug DNGs, but as the sun rose the ISO and shutter speed did not change for probably 25 shots which caused massive overblown highlights (like 75% overblown). There was plenty of time between shots for ETTR to evaluate, and I only had a highlight ignore of 0.5%. Even after it adjusted, it was still a bit overblown but not as bad. This was not in direct sunlight either.
Also just to help me understand, what exposure target does is knocks the histogram back to the left (darker) based on the setting? an exposure target of -0.5 will take the original ETTC calculation and move it 0.5 stops to the left and -1 will move it 1 stop to the left, etc?
What about the in the deflicker module, deflicker target level, how does that work? The wiki states "Desired exposure level for processed pics", and is recommended to leave at -4. I guess this means that my photos will be lowered 4 stops on the histogram with the XMP files.
Quote from: smier on July 10, 2014, 12:20:49 AM
What about the in the deflicker module, deflicker target level, how does that work? The wiki states "Desired exposure level for processed pics", and is recommended to leave at -4. I guess this means that my photos will be lowered 4 stops on the histogram with the XMP files.
No, it moves the median (or whatever other percentile level you select, median is just 50th percentile) of the histogram to 4ev from the right. So it doesn't necessarily move it by -4ev, it may actually move it up some if the median is at less than -4ev.
Basically it tries to make the center of all the histograms at the same location.
Quote from: a1ex on September 08, 2013, 12:55:03 AM
At highlight ignore = 1%, the image is metered at 99th percentile: that brightness value is adjusted to match the target level. That means, 99% of pixels will be darker than target, the other 1% will be brighter. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentile
For deflicker purposes, you would meter at 50th percentile (median), so exactly half pixels will be darker than the exposure target, and the other half will be brighter.
You may say why not compute the average brightness (simple or weighted) and use that for metering? Answer: median and percentiles are statistically robust (they ignore outliers => less flicker). Average (mean) is not.
Thanks for the answers. If I wanted to see the difference between a deflicker target level of -4 and -2, could I shoot at -4 and then use dmilligan's bridge script to additively add 2ev/stops of exposure? Would the results be the same if I were to begin with the deflicker target level of -2?
Should be close enough I think. Take 2 shots, try it and let us know. :)
Could anyone tell me why I cannot see ETTR menu in my camera (EOS 600D) firmware1.0.2 ml v2.3?
This feature is not supported or something else is the problem?
Thanks for answer, Tom.
You haven't told which version you are using.
Go to module tab and activate ETTR.MO
I don't have a module tab either. I use v2.3 or what do you mean?
If you want to use ETTR and other stuff lately developed you have to run a nightly build.
..ohh that.. :) now I understand.... Thank You!
OK, now works :)
So I screwed up tonight and wrote out UFRAW instead of XMP for the sidecar files for a timelapse. Is there a way to convert the .UFR files to XMP to use the Bridge Ramp Multiple and Deflicker Scripts?
If not, what is the workflow for adjusting the images (preferably in Adobe Camera Raw) prior to exporting them to JPEG via UFRAW? Any help greatly appreciated.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
Quote from: CreativeEndeavor on July 15, 2014, 09:18:44 AM
Is there a way to convert the .UFR files to XMP to use the Bridge Ramp Multiple and Deflicker Scripts?
You don't need to, the Bridge script will deflicker for you, even without XMPs from the camera.
I hate to say it, but Ive read over the whole thread a couple times and to be honest I'm still confused about the work flow.
I've been trying the XMP workflow with Bridge CC2014 on the Mac (bridge 6.1.blah) and I'm missing a step or adding a step because I end up with a lot more flickr.
I'd love to see an updated workflow for the XMP/Bridge method of deflicker
So I'm still struggling to really nail down ETTR timelapse with post deflicker using XMP ACR via Bridge in Mac.
I went to a very nice vista and pointed my camera into the sun over a scene and followed the ETTR tutorial with setup for XMP. I processed via the directions for XMP Bridge and ACR and then assembled the pictures using GoPro's video software (which does a great job of converting jpg timelapse into video)
Here is the end result.
http://youtu.be/mszT2KXQLA8
I'd love some suggestions and I can make a zip with the original 300 some pics available if somebody wants to look at those settings.
Found a bug: When I checked the resolutions of the past couple timelapses I've shot, I noticed some of the images being cropped from RAW 5760 X 3840 to 5760 X 3240. I am not sure what is going on because this is a new problem for me after shooting with ETTR before. I have the aspect ratio set to 16:9 for HD. What information do you need from me to figure out why this is happening?
I will crop the errant images by hand in Photoshop unless there is a better solution.
Thank-you for your time.
In [622]: 5760./3240
Out[622]: 1.7777777777777777
In [623]: 16./9
Out[623]: 1.7777777777777777
=> bug invalid.
Tried a time-lapse last night but was completely off. I am very new to this and read through the posts. When setting everything up i get stuck on this step:
Take two or three pictures until the RAW histogram ETTR hint is less than 0.2j
How does one exactly perform this? Any videos showing a step-by-step process of setting everything up? I am also not sure what is meant to be doing throughout. If i set it up properly do I just click the shutter to engage the intervalometer and sit back for 2 hours or do I have to manually make changes as the day turns into night. If so how?
The settings I have for a sunset tonight in NY (start at 7-9):
1. 5d Mark iii - 50mm 1.8 lens on MF
2. WB: 2700
3. ISO 100
4. Shutter 1/50
5. Ap f 16
6. Auto ETTR : slowest shutter (32") highlight ignore (.5%) 5ev/3ev
7. Global Draw: On, all modes
8. zebras: raw RGB
9. Spotmeter: raw, afbox
10. histogram: raw histobar
11. Intervalometer: ON, 15s, stop after 480 shots
12. Post deflickr: Adobe XMP/50%/-4EV
Sorry. I understand the overwhelming knowledge and the experience of this community far outstrips my very new-to-the-game disposition. But I appreciate any help and advice!
I'd love to get great shots of the sunset in Queens tonight and make sure the set up and process is accurate before I overwhelm myself with my Mac and the post-process!
Cheers.
I see a conflict here
slowest shutter (32")
Intervalometer: ON, 15s
Quote from: JasonMillard on August 08, 2014, 07:58:54 PM
Take two or three pictures until the RAW histogram ETTR hint is less than 0.2j
Turn on raw histogram in the overlay menu, make sure image review is not turned off in Canon menu. Take a picture. You will see a histogram and there will be a number on it. This is how many EVs you can increase the exposure until overexposure. Alternatively, simply turn AutoETTR to "always on" and take pictures until you only hear 1 beep after a photo (2 beeps means you need to take another photo, 3 beeps means exposure limits have been reached=>proper exposure is impossible with current settings).
AutoETTR will change the exposure for you, that's the whole point.
#1. If you have a wider lens, use that instead. 50 is not that great for timelapse.
#2. I would leave WB on auto (you can always change it in post, might as well have a camera reading for reference)
#5. I would open the aperture up (for when it gets dark later on), say maybe at least f/4
#11. I wouldn't put a "stop after", what if something awesome happened right at the end of you sequence? You'd miss it. Just stop the timelapse when you're ready to stop it. Also, like barepixels said, your intervalometer period needs to be larger than slower shutter setting.
#12. If you have Adobe Bridge, consider using my script (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0) instead of doing in camera deflicker (deflicker takes some time to run and means you will need more time between slowest shutter and interval, usually 5-10 seconds to be safe). It's basically the same algorithm, but doing it in post is so much easier.
Should slowest shutter be 15"? How are the rest of the settings. And thanks for taking the time to considerately respond!
slower shutter should be less than interval period, so make your interval period longer or you slower shutter shorter
Thanks again for the invaluable information gentleman! Any suggestions for Day-Night shots? I unfortunately only have a 50 and 85 for my FF but a 17-50 for Canon 60D. I will try this for now and maybe the 60D tomorrow.
I took 15" for interval as I saw someone else post it...any other suggestions I would def. try. Also about slower shutter how about 1" ?
Updated settings for tonight:
2. WB: Auto
3. ISO 100
4. Shutter 1/50
5. AP f4
6. Auto ETTR : slowest shutter (1") highlight ignore (.5%) 5ev/3ev
7. Global Draw: On, all modes
8. zebras: raw RGB
9. Spotmeter: raw, afbox
10. histogram: raw histobar
11. Intervalometer: ON, 15s, stop after 480 shots
After this is set...can I let it sit for 2 hours or will I need to ramp up ISO as it gets darker manually (if so how?)
try this
2. WB: 5500 5500 is day light. I would lock WB so it doesn't change. personal choice
3. ISO 100
4. Shutter 1/50 (what ever it look good at begining of the shot. ETTR will take over the shutter speed and ISO anyway)
5. AP f4 (go with the number your lens allow. remember it will be darker later and you will need it wide open. 2.8 or 1.8 or 1.4)
6. Auto ETTR : slowest shutter (30") highlight ignore (.5%) 5ev/3ev (when it get dark you may need more then 1")
7. Global Draw: On, all modes
8. zebras: raw RGB ( I ignor this )
9. Spotmeter: raw, afbox ( I ignor this )
10. histogram: raw histobar ( I ignor this )
11. Intervalometer: ON, 35s, stop after 480 shots (since I have set slowest shuttter alow 30" see above, intervalometer must be longer, say 30s exposure + 5s to save the file to card = 35s and why bother 480 stop restrcition. just stop when you want manually)
or will I need to ramp up ISO as it gets darker manually (if so how?)
One of purpose of using ETTR is have it automate ramping for you
While you start the shoot with plenty of lights. you must consider what your camera need when its dark. hence prepare for 30s exposure and apperature open at widest
Ahh thanks just made the changes walking to the park now... will get there by 7
am lazy. I would rather test at home few time, getting it right and be comfortable while testing, before investing on a trip. lol
You know...there is so much irony in that suggestion. Haha...So I went with a friend and we made it a point to relax at the park and enjoy the view as I tried the time-lapse suggestions. I tried about 10 times to make it work and after taking 5 pictures or so the camera would shut off and stop taking pictures. I would hit a view buttons and try again. Same result.
I almost through my camera at a small child passing by.
Any idea why it would do this?
maybe try with Global Draw: OFF
didn't make a difference turned off after maybe 30 seconds...reset most functions and seems to work now...
Anyone going to try a time-lapse of the Supermoon tonight after dark? Any setting recommendations?
Also, does the 3x crop mode only work for video or can we do it for our lenses. I have an 85 1.4 and 50 1.8 was going to try doing 3x crop mode on 85 (330mm 3x crop!)
The 3x crop just gets you back to native pixel size from the down sampled video resolution (which is 3x less)
thanks milligan...i wrote my question inaccurately. I meant to ask if we could have a 3x crop mode in stills mode as well during time lapses?
Also, found this...seems cool:
http://www.slrlounge.com/useful-pocket-guide-tips-timelapse-astrophotography/
Quote from: JasonMillard on August 11, 2014, 01:45:55 AM
I meant to ask if we could have a 3x crop mode in stills mode as well during time lapses?
No, same answer. The size of a pixel is the size of pixel. You can crop in post if you like.
Quote from: a1ex on August 08, 2014, 09:02:59 AM
In [622]: 5760./3240
Out[622]: 1.7777777777777777
In [623]: 16./9
Out[623]: 1.7777777777777777
=> bug invalid.
Hi Alex,
I think you misunderstood me. When I am shooting time-lapses using Magic Lantern's Intervalometer and ETTR functions, I am finding that the resolution of the images are random from RAW 5760 X 3840 to 5760 X 3240. In other words, I am getting images that are sometimes 5760 X 3840 and other times are 5760 X 3240 from the time-lapse. I've worked around this problem by importing the over-sized files into Photoshop as .Tifs and batch cropping them to a 16:9 resolution. I've found the same problem shooting time-lapses at SRAW on my Canon 5D Mark III using only ML's Intervalometer without ETTR.
Hope this helps.
Hello,
Please forgive me if this question has been answered before. I have read the thread and am still curious:
I am using Magic Lantern with Auto ETTR and the intervalometer to make a "bulb ramped" timelapse. I have enabled everything as per the tutorial on the first page, and am still faced with a dilemma. My ETTR is not settling correctly. The EV is somewhere in the -5 to -6 range, and changes with every frame. With the EV changing constantly, I feel like it's going to be impossible to get a smooth, flicker free video.
Can anyone help me troubleshoot?
Thank you!
Mike
Quote from: mgrittani on August 13, 2014, 07:05:07 PM
I feel like it's going to be impossible to get a smooth, flicker free video.
Maybe that's how you feel, but in reality it is possible to get really good, flicker free results even with the exposure changing constantly (thanks to Maths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram_matching)). Why don't you actually try it? Use the deflick module or the script I wrote. Once you have actually tried it, then post back if you still have issues (include sample footage!)
Quote from: dmilligan on August 13, 2014, 07:18:28 PM
Maybe that's how you feel, but in reality it is possible to get really good, flicker free results even with the exposure changing constantly (thanks to Maths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histogram_matching)). Why don't you actually try it? Use the deflick module or the script I wrote. Once you have actually tried it, then post back if you still have issues (include sample footage!)
Ran into my second issue. There is no option for sidecar (XMP) files when using silent mode. Any suggestions?
use my script (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0) to deflick in post
or
full resolution silent pictures (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12523.0)
(these are not in official nightly builds yet, so you'll have to compile yourself or be patient for a week or two)
I would recommend you do some practice with regular photo mode to get the hang of it, then you can try out the full-res silent pics when it gets merged.
Quote from: mgrittani on August 14, 2014, 12:36:20 AM
Ran into my second issue. There is no option for sidecar (XMP) files when using silent mode. Any suggestions?
I used to worry about the same. Now I can say that dmilligan's script is so good , I don't need sidecards
Howdy folks, I'm in the middle of a multi-day timelapse. First day things went really well, yesterday was a nightmare though - thick cloud cover giving way to bright sunshine. auto ettr seemed to have a very tough time dealing with it, with the first shot after the sun going in being too dark and the then recovering - vice versa when the sun came out from behind a cloud.
Any ideas on how to deal with this?
Also workflow question - I'm not seeing any exposure adjustments when I load my files into lightroom or ACR. I checked the xmp files and the crs:Exposure2012="+1.23473">
is there.
There appears to be a timestamp difference between the xmp and the cr2. Is this an issue?
In a scenario like this, metering speed is more important than exposure accuracy, so you might want to use one of those:
- Canon meter (Av or full auto)
- ETTR combined with Canon meter (ETTR in Av mode)
thanks alex
Hi everybody, and first: thanks to everyone who has contributed in this awesome tool!
Can somebody explain what is the logic between "highlight ignore" and "SNR limits"? I noticed that if I set a really low value to highlight ignoring (e.g. 0,1%) and a rather big value to shadow SNR limit (e.g. 4ev), the image gets too bright since I guess it's trying to meet the shadow value. So does auto ETTR ignore the highlight limit if the SNR limits require a longer exposure?
I'm asking because sometimes it's difficult to find out what is a good value for shadow and midtone snr limits, and requires a lot of test shots. Take a sunset scene as an example. The problem is that if I set too low shadow/midtone snr value it gets too dark in the pictures before ETTR starts to add to the exposure time. Likewise, if I accidentally set too big value, the images will be overexposed. I think it'd be easier if the "highlight ignore" value would override the SNR limits, so that I could set rather high SNR limits and then the "highlight ignore" would prevent the image from overexposing.
Am I understanding/doing something completely wrong here? I'm using 6d, and some of the recent nightly builds (don't remember exactly which one, but I can check if needed).
Thanks,
Aleksi
Right, if SNR limits are reached (that is, the image becomes too noisy), more highlights are clipped.
However, for 6D, try one of the silent picture test builds (look here (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12608)). This functionality is currently broken in nightly builds on this camera.
Thank you for the quick response! I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting with the values.. And check out that silent picture build :) Is it something that'll come to nightly biulds eventually, or is it always going to be a separate thing?
Hi, I am new to ML and ETTR, first thank you very much all for contributing and supporting.
I installed the latest nightly build to my EOS-M and followed the instruction on page one. ETTR is working as I expected. However I am trying to make post deflicker working with xmp and don't seem to be able to have the camera generate xmp files. I have enabled both ettr and deflicker modules, set Global Draw, Zebras, Spotmeter, and Histogram on and started Intervolmeter. When I open the card in my computer I see only the .cr2 files.
Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Don
Hi,
Everytime I try to use the ETTR module for a timelapse, I get the same problem : the images are fine, until the ISO is changed when the module reaches the limit I set. And everytime it does that, I have a jump in exposure between one image and the next.
How am I supposed to correct that? In post? Or am I doing something wrong?
Thanks
Exposure jumps are to be expected. Read the first post for info on how to deflicker.
Ok thanks, if I understand it correctly I have to use the Post Deflicker algorithm and generate a correct exposure offset in the XMP files to have a good exposure ramp...
I'll have to do another timelapse because I threw away (supposedly) good ones thinking I had done something bad :-s
Hello, I would like to export files to some losless format like tiff or dng. How can I do it? I changed "jpeg" in bat to "tiff" but it didn't change anything.
Does anyone know how to solve this one?
I'm finding that if I'm shooting from total darkness to having the sun in frame and I try to add an ND between exposures, the program then starts to double up. I.e. it starts taking 2 shots back to back every 30 seconds. I guess it would make sense that it should do this once after it calculates that suddenly the image is 4 or 5 stops darker because I've stuck my variable ND on the front. But is it a bug that it continues to double up thereafter? Is my only option to stop the intervalometer, restart it with the ND in place, and deal with the missing frames gap in post?
Just to clarify, I'm adding the ND so that I can still have reasonably long exposures and wide apertures after the sun comes up. The only problem with it doubling up is that they are shot with exactly the same settings and not evenly spaced in time. It also means my duration between shots has to be at least double that of my shutter speed. (And obviously it means I have to stop to change cards more frequently).
You have neglected to provide a lot of important information (camera, ML version, settings used, etc.)
My apologies, the details of my set up were:
5dmkii
canon firmware 2.1.2
Nightly.2014Oct08.5D2212
ETTR always ON
Dual ISO on
Intervalometer Take a Pic
I have just tried to recreate the problem using these settings but shooting into overcast sky rather than into the sun and the problem has not occurred. I had been experimenting with ETTR auto snap at the time so that it would retake the shot after I applied the ND. This is now behaving favourably too, it retakes the shot and then goes back to taking one shot per interval. I'm afraid I don't know what I could have been doing differently in the field. Bracketing was off.
I have 8 x 16gb cards for ML so maybe it's one setting on a couple of cards. I will repost if this occurs again or I am able to solve it.
Quote from: endless_projects on February 26, 2015, 01:15:20 PM
I had been experimenting with ETTR auto snap at the time
There's the culprit. I would recommend not using auto snap for timelapse (a flickery scene could trigger extra shots at random times). Instead, quickly adjust exposure manually when adding the ND (this is what I did when I tried doing this sort of thing), or just throw out that one bad frame.
As I mentioned I have actually tried this ND filter thing, but I never could get satisfactory results b/c switching ND filters caused shifts in color that I couldn't really adjust for (which makes sense, a real ND filter cannot have a perfectly flat frequency response), and there would inevitably be noticeable jumps in color in the final sequence. I suppose a variable ND filter hooked up to some kind of stepper motor to slowly change would be a solution, but I don't feel like going to that much effort.
Ok. Could well have been too flickery a scene as I was shooting straight into the sun. Odd that it doubled up shots with the same settings but the guidelines do say to use 'always on' for timelapse so there is nothing to suggest 'auto snap' should work.
Thank you so much for your help!
Hi, can someone explain how to choose or the reflexion to have for the right "highlight ignore" for the right setting of the ETTR.
or do I have to set 0.5% for each setting
Thank you
it's all right I went to read the Topic: (Auto) ETTR (Exposure to the Right): -- History & Beginners Guide to understand
Hi all,
Ive been shooting some stuff in UFRAW mode with Dual ISO mode on.
UFRAW conveniently produces Jpegs, but doesn't sort out the Dual ISO mode, and CR2HDR.exe produces DNG files that can't be fed to UFRAW. Does anyone have a suitable workflow to sort them out?
Have an example DNG that could not be processed in ufraw? What was the error message?
Sorry I may have misunderstood - If I feed the dng's I get out of CR2HRD to UFRAW instead of the old CR2's, will that process the Dual ISO first with CR2 and the ETTR second with Ufraw?
(P.s. thanks for the speedy response - and the awesome feature-set!)
Edit: Seems I am supposed to do that - my google-fu seems to need some work. Thanks A1ex.
Edit2: Ufraw-batch is now looking for a CR2 - when obviously I have used CR2HRD to create a DNG. Obviously there isn't a converter to go back again - what's best here?
I'm having a frustrating problem with my 5D III ml 1.2.3. The intervalometer is not working constantly with CF Lexar 1066x 128g. Specially when used every 1, 2 or 3 seconds. ML is in a Sony SD class 10 16 gb.
¿Do anyone knows what is going on?
Quote from: RobFlanders on March 19, 2015, 02:22:50 PM
Edit2: Ufraw-batch is now looking for a CR2 - when obviously I have used CR2HRD to create a DNG. Obviously there isn't a converter to go back again - what's best here?
I got no original .ufr-file by hand, but my guess is that you would have to rename "CR2" to "DNG" inside the ufraw-sidecar.
For example:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<UFRaw Version='7'>
<InputFilename>E:\ufrawconvert\raw\IMG_2918.
CR2</InputFilename>
to
<InputFilename>E:\ufrawconvert\raw\IMG_2918.
DNG</InputFilename>
I never made a timelapse with Dual-ISO but to my knowledge a "flickerfree Dual-ISO Timelapse" can be achieved with the --same-level command.
It's simple deflicker in post-proccessing instead of doing it in Camera via sidecar.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.msg114254#msg114254 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.msg114254#msg114254)
I'm trying my 1st flicker free time-lapse. So module is on XML created, imported in light room, and saw the changes, and it worked perfectly!
But it was too exposed specially when got to night
I wanted to gradually edit the exposure a bit so I installed LRTimelapse and no matter what I do it always overrides the flicker fixed with ML.
Tried to export to dng then edit it and same thing didn't work.
Any help/recommendation would be great.
Thanks in advance.
Tried bridge and still didn't work they all override the values of ML and they don't do it well. Isn't there a way to use the xml generated by ML and just tweak the curves like in LRTimelaps?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
Hi - I've managed to get this pretty much working correctly on a 5d m3 but am having some trouble with the color balance. I realize after the fact that I left the white balance setting as "auto" - is there any way to correct this after the fact? I have ufraw with applicable sidecar files, etc. Example video I'm working with (deflicker done with ufraw, merging done with virtualdub - I can provide all the camera and processing settings but I think the issue is specifically with the white balance...): https://vimeo.com/126751429. Issue is especially apparent in last three seconds of video.
Thanks in advance for any input!
Rgds,
-toddex
white balance is a post action for raw, so you just have to set all image color temperature the same, or as I do in bridge with script i ramp it for sunset time lapses.
okay - thanks. I'm using ufraw batch mode, and tried the "temperature" parameter but I seem to be having issues getting the whole sequence to look right - it's either right for the first 75% or for the last 25%. You're probably right I need to ramp it somehow - anyone have experience doing this with ufraw if it's even possible? Trying to avoid switching to bridge since I've got the workflow running pretty much with ufraw...!
Thanks again,
-toddex
some of my CR2 files do not have XMP, how to resolve this problem ?
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7738/17625199674_924966b7c6_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sRtKP1)
ETTR-problem (https://flic.kr/p/sRtKP1) by agus telo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ecek2/), on Flickr
settings: Interval 5s, AETTR slowest shutter 1", post deflickr XMP
Canon EOS 550D Nightly 2015Mar29
You need a longer interval, if the deflicker module doesn't have enough time to analyze the image, it won't create the xmp file. Or you can deflicker in post: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
Quote from: ecek2 on May 30, 2015, 01:57:46 AM
some of my CR2 files do not have XMP, how to resolve this problem ?
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7738/17625199674_924966b7c6_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sRtKP1)
ETTR-problem (https://flic.kr/p/sRtKP1) by agus telo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ecek2/), on Flickr
settings: Interval 5s, AETTR slowest shutter 1", post deflickr XMP
Canon EOS 550D Nightly 2015Mar29
Like dmilligan said, usually 6 sec is gd. Or u can disable AETTR then u won't have missing files with 5 sec
hey there
I've just run a test sunset time-lapse using auto-ETTR and the post deflick module.
just a couple of questions.
To my knowledge auto-expsoure to the right is a shooting technique to get best signal-to-noise ratio of a photo.
I know it automatically sets the exposure on your camera for you, so the RAW histogram is to right (more lights then darks). I also believe AUTO-ETTR automatically adjusts your shutter speed and ISO to achieve this.
A previous statement on this forum was:
"Take two or three pictures until the RAW histogram ETTR hint is less than 0.2 "
My ETTR hint at the start of the timelapse shooting was less than 0.2 - so when I took a photo it beeped once . But when I came back to the camera a hour later (night) to check, it started beeping twice after each photo was taken.
Why is this? I know 2 beeps means i have to take the photo again, but why?
Also I want to ramp exposure using shutter speed not ISO, but instead throughout the shooting the camera just kept increasing the ISO automatically and the last photo ended up with a ISO of 3200, which gave me a really noisy photo as Canon 7Ds aren't really good past a ISO of 1000. Whilst the shutter speed remained constant.
Would someone please give me a few pointers, would be greatly appreciated! , Thanks Matt
It's probably beeping twice because the scene lighting is changing, and by the time it takes the next picture there is less light than AETTR expected there to be, and so AETTR is letting you know the photo was slightly underexposed.
The shutter speed isn't changing because either: you reached the slowest shutter set in the AETTR menu or you had AETTR set to only change ISO.
Quote from: dmilligan on June 15, 2015, 12:56:57 PM
It's probably beeping twice because the scene lighting is changing, and by the time it takes the next picture there is less light than AETTR expected there to be, and so AETTR is letting you know the photo was slightly underexposed.
The shutter speed isn't changing because either: you reached the slowest shutter set in the AETTR menu or you had AETTR set to only change ISO.
hey dmilligan thanks for the reply. I read in previous comments, that you can change the ISO max limit in the Canon menu, so I did that (ISO 800). Yes, the scene lighting was changing as it was getting dark, but i was taking each photo at 10 second intervals so it wasn't drastically changing with each shot. I can't see anywhere in Auto ETTR menu where it says "change only ISO" or something of that nature.
What was your slowest shutter speed set to (and did you have 'link to canon shutter' enabled)? and what was the shutter speed of photos? (and just to make sure, you were in M mode, correct?)
(perhaps you should post a screen shot of the AETTR and/or Modified menus, and list the exposure parameters chosen for photos in the sequence)
If the shutter speed of your photos was equal to the slowest shutter speed you had set in the AETTR menu, then AETTR was behaving exactly as expected, increasing the ISO to 3200 (once shutter speed limit is hit, AETTR begins increasing ISO). You can either increase the slowest allowed shutter speed or get faster glass.
If your photos were overexposed, then you might have had the SNR limits or highlight ignore percentage set too high.
Quote from: squidman90 on June 15, 2015, 10:38:20 AM
Also I want to ramp exposure using shutter speed not ISO, but instead throughout the shooting the camera just kept increasing the ISO automatically
There is no reason to not increase ISO once shutter speed limit is reached. All else equal (shutter and aperture), higher ISOs have
less noise than lower ISOs (i.e. the SNR per photon is better with higher ISOs), otherwise they would be pointless.
If you don't believe me, then take two photos of the same subject with the same shutter and aperture and different ISOs (say ISO 100 and ISO 1600). In post, adjust the exposure of higher ISO photo down to match the lower ISO photo (or vice versa) and compare the noise levels, esp. in the shadows. You will find the higher ISO shot has cleaner, less noisy shadows, but it clips to white sooner. If your ISO 100 shot was underexposed such that the ISO 1600 shot didn't clip anything (i.e. underexposed by 4 EV), then you would end up with two identical photos, except the higher ISO shot will have much cleaner shadows. Given the choice between the two, why wouldn't you pick the less noisy one (the higher ISO)?
I assume since your interval was 10s, your slowest shutter speed was probably less than that. If you were somewhere that's rather dark (i.e. not in a city with bright artificial light), once it's fully night, even an exposure of say 32", ISO 3200, f/2.8 might still be underexposed. This is why I like to use a ~45s interval for day to night timelapses with a slowest shutter of "32 (like in this example: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12330.0 which hit those limits even in the presence of an almost full moon).
Auto-ETTR Settings:
Exposure target:-2 EV Canon 7D Start of time-lapse: 24mm f/4.0, 1/25, ISO 100, AutoWB
Highlight ignore: 0.1% End of time-lapse: Shutter = 8" (slowest) ISO 800 (which i had set to max)
Midtone SNR Limit: 6 EV
Shadow SNR Limit: 2 EV
Link2CanonShutter: OFF
Link2DualISO: OFF
Slowest Shutter: 8"
Always ON
Intervalometer: ON 13 seconds Post Deflick: XMP -4EV /50%
<< Quick test
hey dmilligan, thank you for the concise answer (I need to try that ISO experiment). I ran a test time-lapse before I had read your reply though. As you can see
at the end of the time-lapse the ISO had maxed out to 800 therefore making it really noisy in the image, but hopefully increasing the shutter time next try will fix this.
I should have also turned off auto white balance as you can see the temperatures changing all around the place. Question - I don't think i did the post deflicker in ACR correctly, i did read the instructions on page 1 though. I selected all the photos and corresponding XML files and imported them into ACR. I could see the exposure slider increasing throughout the images (deflicker module doing its job) but as you can see in the video there are the odd few frames that are overexposed? is the deflicker normally like this or have I missed a step?? Also right at the end of the time-lapse it was pretty much pitch black, though in the time-lapse it looks like quite a lot of light. how can you reduce the exposure when its dark - is a there setting or should I just do it in post manually.
any other suggestions please let me know! I'm going to try another time-lapse tomorrow. thanks matt
I haven't used ML since a1ex was developing it for the 5dmk3, but once I figured out the new way to bulb ramp with this guide it was pretty much perfect.
First attempt once I got ML 1.2.3 working with my stage 1 dolly:
https://vimeo.com/132007327
Worked great I think, I don't see any flicker. Thanks for the guide!
I noticed AutoETTR tends to "overexpose" my shots when the sun goes down and there's moonlight. It's not actually overexposed because the histogram is far from the edge, so I could bring down the exposure and get a nice exposed image, but I was wondering, is there a way to make the module underexpose a bit the images during night? Less steps in post are always welcome.
I was shooting on a 6D and my settings were:
Exposure target: -0.5 EV
Highlight ignore: 0.1%
Midtone SNR limit: 6 EV
Shadow SNR limit: 2 EV
Trigger mode: Always ON
Slowest shutter: 8"
Interval: 15"
Exposure target
Quote from: dmilligan on July 30, 2015, 06:01:09 PM
Exposure target
But if I change that setting to let's say -2 EV (what I would need for night time), during daylight I'll get an underexposed shot.
Oh, I see what you're asking now. Lower the SNR limits if your night shots appear overexposed. AETTR will keep exposing right and even start clipping highlights to maintain the SNR limits you set.
so i have to use this: http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html#Mac (http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html#Mac)
to deflicker?
ugh.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3994408/ugh-disgusted-look-o.gif)
also, i really don't even really get Exposure 2 the ---> (ETTR).
i mean, i GET it. this article was great:
https://luminous-landscape.com/expose-rightf
which is from this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0
but, so, the module....
after reading up, i assumed...
i would take the first picture, watching the EV value in the histogram, and overexposing without blowing out highlights i want - and taking this picture then set like the to-the-right tolerance or something.
and then, every other picture would find the best exposure, expose to the right, and then bring the image back the it's ideal exposure, and then save that glorious gloss, hooray.
(http://dl.glitter-graphics.com/pub/3074/3074002woh8f3z6s1.gif)
but that's not what happens. i have to install a command line program? :'( :'( :'( (i try. but i never finish... i still don't really get it.)
but as a mac user, then, this one, then..?
http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html (http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html)
?
but i am le tired. :-[
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs)
also,
if i understand ETTR right (right?), then i'm really rarely going to use it.
because i'm usually already trying to expose for past my camera's range.
so i don't have room to the right.
as in....
QuoteAnd of course not every photographic situation will lend itself to this technique. A shot taken on a sunny day with a cloud, a mountain and a forest will challenge the dynamic range of any camera, and so there will be little opportunity of biasing the exposure toward the brighter tones without blowing out the clouds.
from https://luminous-landscape.com/optimizing-exposure/ (https://luminous-landscape.com/optimizing-exposure/)
here it is, without the deflicker.
https://vimeo.com/135436192
i don't know what's causing the big jumps towards the end.
n/m. i think i am le confused.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs)
night, folks.
and don't forget to unscrew that automatic lens.
Out of all of that giant mess of the 3 previous posts, the only real question I could find was this:
Quote from: mattb3476 on August 05, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
so i have to use this: http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html#Mac (http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html#Mac)
to deflicker?
ugh.
If you have Adobe Bridge, then you can try this script instead: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8850.0
If you have a real question, then could please try being more concise and specific, and please spare us all the gifs. It's really hard to figure out what exactly your issue is (or if you even have an issue). Please read: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html before posting anything else.
sorry, friend. i was just being myself and having fun and was anxious to say hello and start talking with you guys. i didn't mean to annoy. but i get it. i have asked a couple premature, dumb questions over the past couple days. ...but one or two valid ones, too, i think.
like many of us newbies, i super appreciate magic lantern and am stoked to be settling into it. it's amazing, and i would give you, dmilligan, for your contributions, a big hug, if i could.
at the same time, it takes a massive amount of reading and tests to understand and talk competently about magic lantern's different capabilities. and this is coming from the post-supervisor of the production arm of a media agency, who's been working with video for a decade. is there a place for stupid, newbie, wtf questions in the forums, where there is a "no stupid question" rule? ...where other people can talk and not have to rely on you developers who understandably have better things to do?
the past week, i have read hundreds of thread posts and a bunch of recommended articles, and am slowly making sense of things. i'll figure things out. no worries. and i'll save my comments for when i'm no longer a newbie.
thanks again. magic lantern is amazing.
Hi there
I'm using ML's deflicker module and I had a problem. :(
The picture seems too dark after applying .ufraw files.
I used the settings of 50% and -4EV just like the article says.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/720/20110706003_0c2cd8457c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wD7Cfp)
Do I have something wrong(-4EV or...)?
The AETTR works fine on the photo but when I apply the .UFRAW files, it darken the image too much.
P.S. I set deflicker from -4EV to -1EV, and the photo became brighter(but I haven't tested it for a long time yet).
So the initial settings(-4EV) needs to be changed in some condition?
Or the AETTR need to be brighter in order to compensate the -4EV?
Hey,
Is anyone using ettr & deflicker + Lrtimelapse?
In Lightroom everything goes ok. Lightroom read sidecar Xmp data but when i go to Lrtimelapse that sidecar xml data is missing.
I think problem is that Lrtimelapse reads only cr2 files embedded data. I tried every kind of way to get that sidecar data embedded to cr2 file.
Is there any way to move that deflicker xmp data to cr2 files that Lrtimelapse can read it?
No, but I see no reason to use both. Even if LrTimelapse could read the exposure value, what would it do with it? Wouldn't it just ignore it and overwrite it anyway with it's own value?
I think ML deflicker makes better output than Lrtimelapse. Reason why i want to take pictures to Lrtimelapse is thats quite good tool for "animating" white balance etc. with keyframes. Any suggestion for similar post production what Lrtimelapset can do?
If pictures are already deflickered there's no need to use Lrtimelapse own deflicker. ..And anyway it doesn't (hopeful) make any chances when pictures are ready deflickered.
Quote from: Valox on September 15, 2015, 03:09:20 PM
I think ML deflicker makes better output than Lrtimelapse. Reason why i want to take pictures to Lrtimelapse is thats quite good tool for "animating" white balance etc. with keyframes. Any suggestion for similar post production what Lrtimelapset can do?
If pictures are already deflickered there's no need to use Lrtimelapse own deflicker. ..And anyway it doesn't (hopeful) make any chances when pictures are ready deflickered.
After de flickering in lightroom and importing them in LRTimelapse, just un-check the exposure 2012 and use it as u always do, and skip the deflicker phase.
Is there a way to limit ETTR to only change exposure in one direction similar to the former bulb ramping function? When shooting a day-to-night timelapse, I usually never want the exposure to go down but only up. Would be great to have an option lke this, ideally with "turn-around" times so yould for example shoot an unattended day-to-night-to-day timelapse and tell ETTR to only keep or increase exposure until a certain time, eg 1am, and then only keep or decrease exposure.
Why? There's no good reason for this. The only possible thing that would happen is you end up with a less than ideal exposure. During a sunset you could end up with overexposed shots and during a sunrise you could end up with underexposed shots.
QuoteWhy? There's no good reason for this. The only possible thing that would happen is you end up with a less than ideal exposure. During a sunset you could end up with overexposed shots and during a sunrise you could end up with underexposed shots.
Well I am just trying to find a way to avoid "flicker" which is caused by changes of the exposure during the day (or during the night). For example:
taking pictures during the night with a house in the foreground. It's well after dusk so exposure is constant at a certain level. Now the lights inside th ehouse are turned on. Ideally this would not impact the exposure. ETTR however would decrease exposure, resulting in a darker sky. Once the lights are off, exposre increase again to the former level. The result is flicker in the timelapse. If I could tell ETTR in this situation to maintain exposure or increase only, this flicker wouldn't be there. I know this only helps in a few situations (for example a passing cloud during the day would be considered a reason to "legally" increase exposure) but maybe it could help as a first step ...
This would only potentially eliminate some flicker. Why not just use a tool in post to eliminate all flicker, and capture as an ideal an exposure as possible in camera?
You're right, however as mentioned in the other thread regarding using GPS coordinates (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8227.msg157638#msg157638), I definitely see potential here to basically get rid of any flicker other than the camera-inherent (aperture flicker, Tv flicker)
hello.
I dizzy from so much reading and trying to keep track of where is what I read before. so forgive me if i missed something.
working with intervalometor, ETTR, Deflicker, dual iso..and hopefully soon silent pictures...i have a few question i hope to understand. if you don't mind.
1- What is the best way to bake the flicker setting onto the file (CR2 or DNG)
one example is: a did timelapse with dual iso, i used the Lightroom script for El capitan to convert dual iso and it looks like it bakes the deflicker, but not all the files had dual iso.
As I understand, dual iso only starts if it sees that its needed and wont if not. (I try to to more test to find out more)
2- with dual Iso, i found that deflicker had a visible jump when dual iso files started..is this right?
3- ETTR depends on where you set the spot meter right? if so, where do people find is best to place when sun rise or sunset?
I have many more thigs to figure out, and more test to be done, but i was hopping for a little help from experts here...you guys blow my mind...i wish i could...thanks for all.
So, far i was trying the after effects road, since my computer is too slow for resolve.. so I import DNG sequence to after effects and export prores 422..i am on an Imac.
Thanks.thanks thanks.
Hi guys,
I've used ETTR and XMP sidecar files successfully along with the intervalometer a few times in the past for time lapses. However over the past couple of nights I have noticed that that for some reason the ETTR starts hitting the limit as the sky gets darker (day to night lapse, shorter exposure limit to avoid trailing stars) but it doesn't increase the ISO above 1600.
I've never had the problem before and so have never noticed if this has always been the case and unfortunately I'm travelling at the moment so don't have access to any of my old files to check. But I don't understand why this is happening. I have a 5D II and the ISO is not set to AUTO. As a result of this the images created after a certain point are all the same exposure and the XMP files just start increasing the EV by a value of about 4 resulting to crazy noisy images.
I tried this evening with dual ISO enabled and started another evening to night lapse, the ETTR stopped again when it hit the exposure length limit and only with an ISO of 1600. Not a single shot was taken in dual ISO even with the setting enabled in the ETTR settings and in the exposure menu.
Does anyone have any ideas why it won't push to a higher ISO to keep shooting?
Hi Shogran.
i am far from qualify to help..but..
first i thought..do you have the cam set to max iso 1600? i do have mind..
and...do you mean intervalometer stops or ETTR stops? it keeps taking pictures but not well expose?
i just thought i tried to help..sorry..no much better.
Quote from: 'mindfull'Hi Shogran.
i am far from qualify to help..but..
first i thought..do you have the cam set to max iso 1600? i do have mind..
and...do you mean intervalometer stops or ETTR stops? it keeps taking pictures but not well expose?
i just thought i tried to help..sorry..no much better.
Thanks for the reply mindfull!
I've had a quick look through the camera, and then on Google and it looks like the 5DII does not have a max ISO setting. I definitely can't see it listed anywhere on the camera. A great thought through, so thank-you!
The intervalometer keeps going but ETTR stops adjusting the exposure so they don't come out great!
Thanks again!
QuoteAfter de flickering in lightroom and importing them in LRTimelapse, just un-check the exposure 2012 and use it as u always do, and skip the deflicker phase.
What do you mean after deflickering in lightroom? using Post-Deflicker makes a ready XMP with exposure modifier, Am i missing something?
The problem i am getting right now, is creating keyframes. When i create them in LRTimelapse, the Post-Deflicker curve is modified and it is not as accurate as they used to be. Also, the keyframes that are created by LRtimelapse do not appear in Lightroom :(
Here is a screenshot of the original Post-Deflicker curve in LRTimelapse.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1whvX7ElUOpb2xwOU5LNW1fN28
and here is one after initializing and creating the keyframes
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1whvX7ElUOpaWl1UldWczBRTDQ
any one has any idea?
@Edmund-B
I use LR and LRT and with ML ETTR.
I personally first bring my images into LR.
I then go to LRT and point to the folder where the images are.
I do the LRT workflow, eg keyframes and holygrail and export metadata.
Then back to LR and in Lib mode select keyframes from filter and read metadata.
Do any adjustments in LR (on the key frames) and save metadata.
Then back to LRT, read metadata and finsh off LRT phase, before returning to LR, selecting all images, reading all metadata and exporting for video.
Cheers
Garry
Quote@Edmund-B
I use LR and LRT and with ML ETTR.
I personally first bring my images into LR.
I then go to LRT and point to the folder where the images are.
I do the LRT workflow, eg keyframes and holygrail and export metadata.
Then back to LR and in Lib mode select keyframes from filter and read metadata.
Do any adjustments in LR (on the key frames) and save metadata.
Then back to LRT, read metadata and finsh off LRT phase, before returning to LR, selecting all images, reading all metadata and exporting for video.
Cheers
Garry
Thanks for the reply Garry,
the problem im facing is i cant use the holy grail wizard because otherwise, i would loose the post-deflicker group of XMP files. And thats not an issue i just uncheck the exposure2012 column and thats alright.
the problem resides where creating keyframes in LRtimelapse dont appear in Lightroom
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1whvX7ElUOpdDZZQXZaX3BjYkk
OK I understand now.
I don't use any ML deflickering data, so I can't help you :(
I 'just' use ML ETTR to handle the holy grail case and LR/LRT for the rest.
Sorry.
Garry
BTW You are reading the metadata back into LR, aren't you?
Quote from: Edmund-B on January 24, 2017, 07:09:25 PM
Thanks for the reply Garry,
the problem im facing is i cant use the holy grail wizard because otherwise, i would loose the post-deflicker group of XMP files. And thats not an issue i just uncheck the exposure2012 column and thats alright.
the problem resides where creating keyframes in LRtimelapse dont appear in Lightroom
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1whvX7ElUOpdDZZQXZaX3BjYkk
You need to uncheck the exposure 2012 in LRTimelapse before saving the animated curves or doing the initial keys.
1st bring to lightroom, use the ml deflicker then use LRTimelapse to do the keyframes, same Metadata, do your modification in lightroom and when u return to create the animated curves, uncheck "exposure 2012"
Quote from: keepersdungeon on January 30, 2017, 08:02:58 PM
You need to uncheck the exposure 2012 in LRTimelapse before saving the animated curves or doing the initial keys.
1st bring to lightroom, use the ml deflicker then use LRTimelapse to do the keyframes, same Metadata, do your modification in lightroom and when u return to create the animated curves, uncheck "exposure 2012"
Yup this works for sure, but it didnt want to create keyframes for me using the XMP files generated by ML. So i had to convert all files to DNGs instead of RAW then it worked while discarding any exposure changes.
In LRTimelapse, it shows that keyframes were created. But in Lightroom, nothing appears to be starred. I might read XMPs generated by ML and then read the ones from LRTimelapse to see if i can generate keyframes manually, as im in favor always for RAW formats.
Cheers
First thanks all for the amazing work that has gone into this. I have used the interval timer for years on Aurora but manually set the exposures. Now I need some automation on that and I have a problem.
nightly 2017 march 30 60D111 I have tried it in earlier versions of the nightly as well.
I have been using ettr and it works to a point for the time lapses I am trying to get.
I'm trying to go from sunset to dark.
Highlight ignore 0.1%
Midtone SNR limit 6 EV
Shadow SNR limit 2 EV
Link to canon shutter is on
Dual iso is off (I have played with this and looks promising but I want to lock this problem down first).
shutter is at .8 seconds. iso is 1600 in every place I can find and is the max set in the canon menu.
it runs fine at some point bumps into the .8 so then iso goes to 200.
But then the iso does not ramp any farther and I see a camera raw error on the screen. What I expect it to do is ramp to 1600 and then go dark if it needs.
am I missing something obvious? I can be pretty thick and I have run this for the last 5 sunsets with no luck.
I fly out to a remote glacier in Denali park, Alaska in 36 hours and was really hopping to have this figured out before then.
Thnaks!
Sean
I would like to shoot some sunrise and/or sunset time-lapse but am unable to find the settings for bulb ramping. Any clues?
50D
magiclantern-Nightly.2017Oct31.50D109