Magic Lantern Forum

General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: LucianParaian on July 22, 2019, 03:08:05 PM

Title: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: LucianParaian on July 22, 2019, 03:08:05 PM
I know this is sensitive subject and it's not like I haven't been reading the forum, but here I am with my suggestion towards a full time involvement and payment for a number of developers.
Please feel free to retaliate, especially if there's something I'm missing...  :)

The idea is that ML has the potential of being a serious effort, not just a hobby for the developers, which can take the development of ML as their full time job and I'm sure the community will be happy to support this. 

My inspiration for this idea is Blender, who recently have launched a campaign for attracting enough funds to support full time developers working on the software, by having different levels of membership, milestones and targeting the corporate world as well:
I think they are paying something like 5k euro/month/developer.
Have a good look and tell me why this can't be done for ML.

There might be a need for organization to be legally registered and so on and someone to take care of the management, I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but the results could be beneficial for all.
Whether you do this via Patreon or whatever, it doesn't matter.

For anyone that hasn't heard of Blender before, Blender is a 100% free and open source 3D creation suite. More details here:

Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: 70MM13 on July 22, 2019, 05:13:46 PM
i can't believe i am actually a voice in opposition to this, but reality has a funny way of being undeniable...

i've been a blender user for well over 20 years, and i watched it change from a very different commercial model to what it is today.

virtually none of the relevant parameters apply to magic lantern.  first of all, ML is a very, very niche product.  blender is the polar opposite.

secondly, blender has been striving for industry integration and support since day 1.  good luck on that one with this industry and product...

thirdly, and this is a big one, ton has been involved since day 1 to make money.  it is what drives him, irretardless of the public persona and propaganda to the contrary.  do you know why it originally went from commercial to open source so very long ago?

it is not a simple story, and as i said, it doesn't apply here.  there's more factors, but this is enough for me.

don't get me wrong, i would love to see this happen too!  it just isn't realistic, and the political will simply isn't there.

this is a little bizarre.  i can't believe i'm a naysayer.  i guess i've been on this forum too long and the negativity is rubbing off on me :P

good luck!
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: LucianParaian on July 22, 2019, 06:25:52 PM
I was only hinting at the Development Fund way of getting a set number of devs involved and working full time on ML. This is to eliminate the uncertainty, the waiting game and rewarding the people involved as they deserve.

The rest of the Blender business model may be a different kind of beast, but the way they are raising money has successfully worked towards bringing a finished free product to the masses.

After all, I don't see the negative behind being money driven. Everyone wants to make a living doing what they like and believe in. Ton is just one guy, but behind him are dozens of contributors that started off as hobbyists.
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: Levas on July 22, 2019, 10:11:13 PM
Even if developers are willing, probably not legally possible.

Remember, this whole thing exist to push more options in Canon cameras, options Canon didn't want to put in, or didn't think off.
Blender is software build from the ground and is complete in its own, Magic lantern is build from the ground too ofcourse, but it is used/build/interacts on top of Canon firmware...
Without Canon firmware, no Magic Lantern, so little different as Blender I'm affraid.

So what do you think Canon will do if Magic Lantern becomes a commercial company and earns some money  ;D

Best case scenario would probably be if Canon would cooperate with Magic Lantern, maybe hire some ML developers and give them all needed info on the firmware and hardware.
That way Canon could push some very interesting firmware updates.
But then again, everything must then be played by Canon maybe not the best option  :P
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: ilia3101 on July 22, 2019, 11:06:04 PM


Blender model :P
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: names_are_hard on July 22, 2019, 11:57:14 PM
I'd say the pay-per-feature model is more plausible.  Eg, "$X000 for hello world on 911D".  Trying to pay people full time is tricky (pension? medical insurance? contracts and legal fees? interview process?), particularly since the people that have the skills you want probably already have good jobs.  By asking them to work full time, you're asking them to quit the job they already have :)

I'm happy to volunteer some time because it's a fun challenge, and I can work on it in a hammock in the sunshine, with a beer in hand.  Full time I'd want a years pay in escrow and more like 20k a month - sorry!

Pay per feature you're not risking as much, either.  Somebody has to give you the feature before you pay them the money - hard to get scammed.  Pay someone a wage and they can more easily waste your time and money.
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: ilia3101 on July 23, 2019, 12:50:34 AM
"$X000 for hello world on 911D"

People can set up bounties for a feature they want, and when someone implements it, they get the money. Elementary OS uses this.
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: 70MM13 on July 23, 2019, 05:24:06 AM
all valid points, plus a nifty virtual 5d sculpture ;)

even if this could happen somehow with the blender foundation business model, where the hell would all this money come from?  there just aren't that many users, unless we're all gonna start paying $1000/month to use magic lantern :P
Title: Re: Full time effort - Blender model
Post by: LucianParaian on July 23, 2019, 10:57:17 AM
Just a few more points:

 I think a Canon collaboration is out of the question. They deliberately cripple the cameras.

 I'm trying to see ML as an addon, a piece of software installed on a machine, to patch the original software. I don't need to tell you that there are millions of cases where people charge money for addons/plugins. Legally, if the right steps are followed, I'm sure it can be done, without upsetting Canon. After all, you are driving camera sales.

 With a decent payment, I'm sure there will be people willing to learn to work on ML, if the current devs won't want to quit their jobs.

 Where do you get the money? I would like to believe that there are a lot more quiet ML users out there, especially businesses, that with a promise of a stable product, would chip in to make that happen.

 And finally, if you set up a not-for-profit organization, a business, a charity or whatever else, there will be the option to apply for grants, do some proper marketing and stop being a garage band.

The most difficult thing and probably the pitfall, is managing people to get a thing going.