Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => Hardware and Accessories => Topic started by: ibrahim on December 03, 2017, 03:54:44 PM

Title: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on December 03, 2017, 03:54:44 PM
Hi,

I am using a 5D mark III (firmw. 1.1.3) and want to buy the most stable external monitor for my gimbal dji Ronin m axis.

I have thw following to choose from but haven't found enough info from the forum if I can record in RAW to my CF-card:

Lilliput 5D-II/O 7 "

Aputure VS-2 FineHD or any other from aputure such as aputure VS-3 or VS-5

SmallHD AC7

Among these  which features do not work with these monitors? By that I mean, histogram, cropmarks,etc.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: noipego on December 04, 2017, 12:09:23 PM
i just got the 'Feelworld F570' monitor and its pretty good for what it costs
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: Dmytro_ua on December 04, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
i just got the 'Feelworld F570' monitor and its pretty good for what it costs

How is the latency?
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on December 04, 2017, 11:29:49 PM
i just got the 'Feelworld F570' monitor and its pretty good for what it costs

Interesting. Which camera and firmware are you using and can you  see the cropmarks, histogram, zebras, etc.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: noipego on December 08, 2017, 05:49:18 PM
no latency (maybe just a slight with gh5 4k signal but nothing to worry about). also use it with 5d3 123fir and everything is fine.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: katrikura on December 08, 2017, 06:45:10 PM
hello, I use a  ninja blade, it has zebra tools, focus and also I record a backup file in prores, even when recording in raw.

Katrikura
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: Dmytro_ua on December 08, 2017, 08:13:28 PM
no latency (maybe just a slight with gh5 4k signal but nothing to worry about). also use it with 5d3 123fir and everything is fine.

I really hope they fixed latency issue. As it was quite noticeable on other recent models. Please check video at 6:14 here https://youtu.be/pvC-_Kkxleg?t=6m14s
Can you confirm that this new monitor performs better?
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: domasa on December 20, 2017, 06:33:44 PM
Quote
no latency
Latency is not fixed. I think it is same as there:
Quote
https://youtu.be/pvC-_Kkxleg?t=6m14s  (https://youtu.be/pvC-_Kkxleg?t=6m14s)

:-(
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: noipego on December 21, 2017, 02:27:15 PM
sry for late reply ...did a quick video so you can check for yourself  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRVoMZW5KVM&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on May 14, 2018, 05:42:02 PM
The following features are important for me to film films/short films:

- waveform, histogram, false colors
- LUT
- in/out hdmi
- 16:9, 2.35:1
- 24 and 48 fps
- at least 5 inch
- and most importantly not gloosy monitor. Being able to see in the details on the monitor in harsh sun conditions.

Other features are not that important for me. I am only interested in recording in RAW uncompressed 14-bit, not through the monitor.
Eyeing for those features I have for several months now narrowed down my interest to these external monitors:

1- SmallHD focus 5 inch

2- Atomos ninja blade

3- Atomos samurai blade

4- Blackmagic video assist

5. Atomos Ninja Flame

6- APUTURE VS-5 or APUTURE VS-5X ?

7- MustHD 7" M702S-4K ?

Is anyone using a professional monitor from this list or outside this list that results in very little complications either with firm 1.1.3 or 1.2.3 on 5d3? And if so what issues do occur.
Note my budget is max 600 pounds.

I've gone through the entire forum on this topic but there isn't much new from recent year (2017-2018) that give me a clue if any of these work while recording RAW. For instance smallHD is told in old topics that it has many problems but nothing is updated about it for several years not. My cinematographers out there which do you recommend?

Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on May 15, 2018, 12:07:41 AM
hello, I use a  ninja blade, it has zebra tools, focus and also I record a backup file in prores, even when recording in raw.

Katrikura

Are there any issues with the ninja blade?
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: katrikura on May 16, 2018, 02:43:03 AM
There is no problem with ninja blade, everything works correctly.


Sorry for my bad English.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: Lars Steenhoff on May 16, 2018, 03:07:50 AM
what about the ninja v. coming in september
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: nikki on May 17, 2018, 11:21:49 PM
do monitors work with the 1.1.3. build on the 5d3??
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on May 18, 2018, 03:36:49 AM
There is no problem with ninja blade, everything works correctly.


Sorry for my bad English.

No problem. Which firmware do you use on the 5d3? Can you see both on your atomos and on LCD camera screen?
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: katrikura on May 18, 2018, 04:58:21 AM
I use version 1.2.3. I can watch and record on the camera and the external recorder, on the camera I record on raw and on the external recorder on prores
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: togg on June 02, 2018, 07:20:08 PM
The following features are important for me to film films/short films:

- waveform, histogram, false colors
- LUT
- in/out hdmi
- 16:9, 2.35:1
- 24 and 48 fps
- at least 5 inch
- and most importantly not gloosy monitor. Being able to see in the details on the monitor in harsh sun conditions.

Other features are not that important for me. I am only interested in recording in RAW uncompressed 14-bit, not through the monitor.
Eyeing for those features I have for several months now narrowed down my interest to these external monitors:

1- SmallHD focus 5 inch

2- Atomos ninja blade

3- Atomos samurai blade

4- Blackmagic video assist

5. Atomos Ninja Flame

6- APUTURE VS-5 or APUTURE VS-5X ?

7- MustHD 7" M702S-4K ?

Is anyone using a professional monitor from this list or outside this list that results in very little complications either with firm 1.1.3 or 1.2.3 on 5d3? And if so what issues do occur.
Note my budget is max 600 pounds.

I've gone through the entire forum on this topic but there isn't much new from recent year (2017-2018) that give me a clue if any of these work while recording RAW. For instance smallHD is told in old topics that it has many problems but nothing is updated about it for several years not. My cinematographers out there which do you recommend?

let me know how it goes, I'm also interested in buying a smallhd focus for the same use. I'm curious what kind of LUT are you planning to use for shooting?
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: allemyr on June 02, 2018, 10:44:38 PM
What are you using a lut for in the display? The image to the display is 8 bit right? And if you record raw its record 14 bit.

Focus peaking could also be quite important to have in a monitor!
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: smasry on June 02, 2018, 11:39:47 PM
@allemyr I have an Atomos Ninja 2, from the cheaper end of their range, and it mirrors the ML display, treating it as a focal plane. The result? All ML UI elements are in focus, and are highlighted by focus peaking. In other words, it doesn't work (for me, with 5D3 1.2.3) for focus peaking.

I know that the waveform, histogram and false colours work, but it may be reacting in the same (false) way; I haven't tested them. For focus, articulation and a backup recording, it's fantastic!
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on July 03, 2018, 01:54:09 AM
I was thinking of using the kodak 2393 LUT only as a reference; so that I would know how the final output would prior to rec. That's the LUT I usually use for dramas in 2.35:1.
Sorry for replying so late togg. I missed this thread.  :D
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: allemyr on July 03, 2018, 07:20:00 AM
@allemyr I have an Atomos Ninja 2, from the cheaper end of their range, and it mirrors the ML display, treating it as a focal plane. The result? All ML UI elements are in focus, and are highlighted by focus peaking. In other words, it doesn't work (for me, with 5D3 1.2.3) for focus peaking.

Yes, for me that's not a problem that some text in the interface also is affected by the focus peaking, but I don't have much on during recording. ML focus peaking also only works before recording?

Focus peaking would for me be top priority of these features, especially because its 14-bit most people record so for the otherstuff there is headroom.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: allemyr on July 03, 2018, 07:24:02 AM
I was thinking of using the kodak 2393 LUT only as a reference; so that I would know how the final output would prior to rec.

Ok shure go ahead, you didn't get the point :) The point: you can't create a image from this camera because the image you grade from HDMI is 8-bit, and the image you grade in your application is 14-bit or something similar. If you want to be able to see what the image will look like afterwards you have to record in 8-bit, but yes, not a good solution.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: togg on July 04, 2018, 06:30:56 PM
I've bought the smallhd 5", I'm using it on a shooting on these days, I'll tell you more at the end of it. I'm not sure if the magic lantern UI is movable, that would be very nice.

Focus peaking etc are useless as always, but the touch focus works very well. I also think that I prefer ML scopes. But I need to test them more.
Also I couldn't test the LUT yet, but they should work nicelly.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: allemyr on July 04, 2018, 07:50:19 PM
I've bought the smallhd 5", I'm using it on a shooting on these days, I'll tell you more at the end of it. I'm not sure if the magic lantern UI is movable, that would be very nice.

Focus peaking etc are useless as always, but the touch focus works very well. I also think that I prefer ML scopes. But I need to test them more.
Also I couldn't test the LUT yet, but they should work nicelly.

This is a Magic Lantern forum right? As far as I know Canon 1DX2 or a Sony A7s2 doesn't run Magic Lantern?

Touch focus? What? If you have 1DX2 shure, but then again this is ML forum. I have no idea how you shot your videos? But I heavily rely on manual focus because I use the 5D3. And focus peaking is the most crucial feature, isn't that the only focus assist you can have with this camera? Shure ML focus peaking works, but not after you pressed record, or did I missunderstand that feature?

And for the third time in this thread, LUT's is for people who shoot with a flat profile like S-Log or similar and want to add a LUT in monitor to visualy see what the image will look, you do know how flat S-log look? And understand why its that imporant in that case. And again, what Canon cameras output is 8 bit thru HDMI, you know that you can record up to 14 bit in camera?

Do you both know what 14-bit is?
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: ibrahim on July 04, 2018, 08:19:53 PM
Yes of course I know very well what 14-bit vs 8-bit is Allemyr from having worked with it for quite some time now.

Just to clarify I need an external recorder for two different scenarios:

1) for live streaming
I want to use a LUT just to see what the final look will be like while recording with the atomos. I don't want to record in 14-bit (by the 5d3) since it cannot be streamed into live streaming software. Are you saying that the LUT on the monitor won't the applied to the final recorded footage (in prores/DNxHD) and only is meant to be used as a reference?

2) for 14-bit recording through the 5d3.
In this case I don't want to record by the monitor since it cannot record in 14-bit.
So my number one priority is to use the monitor for accurate focus peaking. At the same time, I want to use a rec709 LUT just to see that the final look is while making use of false colors and RGB curve in my multi-camera shots. I want to record through the ML in camera, not the monitor. Then in post I want to apply the same LUT. Since the hdmi signal is 4:2:2 8-bit in a 10-bit "container" (in the prores codec) wouldn't the difference between the LUT applied in post and prior to that be approximative enough?

Which external monitor would serve these two purposes without being an over-kill of course.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: togg on July 07, 2018, 10:15:44 PM
This is a Magic Lantern forum right? As far as I know Canon 1DX2 or a Sony A7s2 doesn't run Magic Lantern?

Touch focus? What? If you have 1DX2 shure, but then again this is ML forum. I have no idea how you shot your videos? But I heavily rely on manual focus because I use the 5D3. And focus peaking is the most crucial feature, isn't that the only focus assist you can have with this camera? Shure ML focus peaking works, but not after you pressed record, or did I missunderstand that feature?

And for the third time in this thread, LUT's is for people who shoot with a flat profile like S-Log or similar and want to add a LUT in monitor to visualy see what the image will look, you do know how flat S-log look? And understand why its that imporant in that case. And again, what Canon cameras output is 8 bit thru HDMI, you know that you can record up to 14 bit in camera?

Do you both know what 14-bit is?


mmm, maybe my post wasn't clear enough. Sorry.
Title: Re: External monitor
Post by: allemyr on July 08, 2018, 09:18:29 AM

mmm, maybe my post wasn't clear enough. Sorry.

It would clearfy if you wrote what camera you are using the touch focus with. And how focus peaking is useless. Ofcourse you can manual focus just watching the display but without focus peaking, but those often green dots is a cool tool for focus.

But shure it would be very cool to have Magic Lantern on a camera like the 1DX2!

And about the LUT, its hard to disquss that more with you two :) I would say that the Canon picture profile you see while recording is a good enough estimation for how you can grade the raw image, and that Canon color profile is ofcourse not recorded in the raw file, but you already know that I know. I don't know how a LUT on that Canon color profile would make things better. You would grade a 8 bit image where the starting point is a Canon color profile and then with your LUT. Well it depends what you usually do in post with your 14-bit raw file and how you grade it. Shure if you apply and use a Canon color profile like the one in Canon cameras in Davinci Resolve etc, then the Canon color profile you see while recording would be a exact match off what you get. And If you in Davinci Resolve etc, apply first the Canon color profile and then a your custom LUT, then it would be a perfect match on camera monitor while recording if you have a SmallHD LUT while recording, but yes it depends on how you grade in post!