Magic Lantern Forum

Magic Lantern Releases => Camera-specific discussion => Topic started by: SiSS on August 11, 2016, 11:11:29 PM

Title: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 11, 2016, 11:11:29 PM
"CANON ANNOUNCES THE EOS 5D MARK IV"
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-the-eos-5d-mark-iv-dslr/


****************************************************************************
Release date is supposedly 25th and big 5D event starting couple of days after that in Japan.

Lot of reliable rumors surfacing [link updated, full list]:
http://www.canonrumors.com/full-specifications-images-of-eos-5d-mark-iv/

Worst thing so far: No CFast card.
Same codec as in 1DX mark II: 4:2:2 8bit 500mbps MJPEG
No word about uncompressed HDMI out or any LOG, neither of these in 1DX mark II.
Biggest scare so far: Speculation about leaving DPAF out (which sounds crazy).

Newer CPU tough, so...maybe better FullHD ML RAW capabilities at least...
 

Edit: changed title from "Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out"
Edit2: changed title from "to be announced next week"
Edit3: changed title from "Few More Days"
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: GutterPump on August 12, 2016, 12:34:19 PM
Im already in hope to see others Magic Lantern miracles on the 5D mark IV :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on August 12, 2016, 12:39:53 PM
Without CFast I feel it's pretty doomed for higher resolution in Raw. Of course they don't like not to benefit from ML super work...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Kharak on August 12, 2016, 01:41:03 PM
7 fps at around lets say 25 MB per pic - 175 MB/s write speed? With CF card? Perhaps dual CF card. Or will the pictures have less bits than mk iii ? 12 bit?

A lot of guessing, better wait for the actual release.

What resolution is 30.4 mega pixels?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: GutterPump on August 12, 2016, 02:24:18 PM
Yep. If the buffer limitation isnt the same than the mk III, we can expect best RAW performances even if we cant expect CFast fonction..

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jmanord on August 12, 2016, 03:18:56 PM
I'm most curious about the resulting floor on reduced mark III prices  :) I'm hooked on ML raw video and would love to pick up a second body "for my wife".
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on August 12, 2016, 04:25:31 PM
The 5D3 resolution is 5760x3840 and RAW files are (very roughly) 27MB or so each.

A 5D4 at 30.4MP would mean a resolution something like 6750x4500, with RAW files around say 37MB each.

The 5D3 can shoot photos at 6fps, which requires 6 x 27 = ~160MB/s. The 5D3 CF card slot can only write at around 100MB/s though, which is why the onboard RAW buffer fills up (and the fps slows down) after a few seconds of continuous shooting.

Even assuming the 5D4 can write at the maximum theoretical speed of 160MB/s to CF card, at 7fps x 37MB= ~260MB/s the RAW buffer will still fill up (and fps will slow down) quite quickly. Presumably the buffer will be big enough that the 5D4 is capable of 7fps continuous for at least as long as the 5D3, but I wouldn't expect too much beyond that.

As far as continuous RAW video goes, 1920x1080x25fps requires ~87MB/s which is close to the upper limit of the 5D3. Even in the best case scenario on the 5D4 (160MB/s writes), it doesn't look like it would be capable of 1920x1080x50fps continuous but would still have fairly noticeable headroom over the 5D3. Only time will tell what the real numbers are.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on August 14, 2016, 12:46:45 AM
Guessing that without CFast there won't be super slowmo functions. But one buyers wish would be to get a sensor with much much better dynamic range, wishful thinking would be +14 stops. 5D3 has 12 which ain't much nowadays.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jtvision on August 14, 2016, 05:42:02 PM
Regardless of specs I'm assuning image quality from 4k sensor will be significantly better. I remember not being able to tell the difference between 4k and 1080p footage shot on BMPC, because 1080p shot on 4k sensor is really good.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on August 15, 2016, 12:13:57 PM
really hope the 5d4 will get ML raw, so I can get rid of my 6d ;P
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: MarkusAedo on August 15, 2016, 08:05:09 PM
I'm also extremely bummed cfast cards are not available for this camera. At the very least if these specs are true, the best I can hope for is the SD cards being UHS-II. That would give a substantial boost over the CF cards.

We'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on August 16, 2016, 07:36:53 AM
Bring on the 5D4 for the 5D3's to drop in price so I can get a second one  :D.   I'll stick with my 5D3 for a very long time. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on August 17, 2016, 09:42:36 AM
5D4 specs are here: http://www.canonrumors.com/full-specifications-images-of-eos-5d-mark-iv/

Note that it's possible the SD slot (with SDXC) is going to be the faster than the CF slot. We don't know the full spec of that SD slot yet but SDXC v4 with UHS-II is rated at up to 312MB/s.

I'll probably be picking one of these up, but not for another couple of months once there's good availability and the prices drop slightly.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 17, 2016, 01:06:30 PM
They say 4:2:2, but no details if its via HDMI or internal.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 17, 2016, 01:15:46 PM
Good call MarkusAedo and chris_overseas!
CF is at end of the line, Compact Flash Association have decided not to improve the technology anymore.

4:2:2 could be 4K internal.
If I got it right, 1DX II don't have uncompressed HDMI and that was one of the rare firmware updates from Canon to really make a difference when it hit 5DIII.
 
Edit: This is from B&H 1DX II:
When recording in-camera, 4K video has 4:2:2 sampling and 8-bit color depth.
While Full HD 1080p footage has 4:2:0 sampling.
Uncompressed Full HD 1080p video can also be saved via HDMI to an optional external recorder with 4:2:2 color sampling.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 17, 2016, 01:37:53 PM
Why they reducing sampling in 1080p? Quite weird.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 17, 2016, 01:46:34 PM
They upgraded to USB3.0 at last, I'm sure SD slot will be upgraded too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 17, 2016, 01:57:48 PM
Missed that, it's a good one too. Speed up tethering I hope...
 
Yeah why reduce sampling in 1080 1D X II?
My guess, Canon still has six different cameras on their Cinema EOS line available:
C100, C100 II, 1DC, C300, C300 II, C500:
http://cinemaeos.usa.canon.com/
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Canon&ci=28624&N=3705627354+4291570227
And more to come at IBC in few weeks (C700? maybe even C100 III by the end of the year?).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on August 17, 2016, 09:41:36 PM
Does somebody already know what the purpose is of the raw files with full data of DPAF ?
Is it to extract some more detail out ?
30 megapixel sensor, but 60 megapixel with DPAF, but with pairs of pixels under the same RGB color, so I'm curious how much extra detail there is in real life...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on August 17, 2016, 09:45:52 PM
Dual-ISO comes to mind ...
But this is just my shot in the dark.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 19, 2016, 10:09:41 AM
no Dual-ISO

Newly developed 30.4MP CMOS sensor
Dual Pixel CMOS AF
Dual Pixel RAW: One of the RAW file recording both the normal image and the parallax information. Digital Photo Professional of the “Dual Pixel RAW Optimizer” in the can: three of image processing
Image Micro-adjustment: by using the depth information, fine adjustment enables the position of the maximum sharpness and resolution
Bokeh Shift: to change the position of the previous blur (original: repositions the viewpoint of foreground bokeh for a more pleasing result)
Ghosting Reduction: reduces the ghost and flare

Image processing engine DIGIC6 +
New noise processing algorithm that reduce the noise more effectively
ISO 100-32000 (extended sensitivity ISO 50, ISO 51200, ISO 102400)
DLO (Digital Lens Optimiser) diffraction correction (adds fine detail in the Picture Style)
Auto-Focus 61 points. Corresponding to F8 in all of the distance measuring point. Focusing down to -3EV (live view -4EV)
Seven AF area selection modes, including a “large zone AF”
100% field view in optical finder, magnification 0.71 times
Electronic level (2-axis)
LCD monitor 3.2 inches 1.62 million dots
Touch panel
150,000-pixel RGB + IR metering sensor
252 zone photometry
EOS iSA system
EOS iTR system
Continuous shooting up to 7 frames/sec (OVF is used)
Servo AF live view continuous shooting 4.3 frames/sec.
Touch AF
Touch Shutter
Mirror vibration control system (MVCS)
Anti-flicker system
Wi-Fi built-in (IEEE802.11 b/g/n)
NFC-enabled
EOS’s first FTP/FTPS transfer function (wireless file transmitter required)
GPS built-in
GPS logger function
4K 30fps video mode (MJPEG)
4K 30p 4: 2: 2 support Motion JPEG
Full HD 60 fps (ALL-I, IPB)
HD 120 fps (ALL-I)
JPEG images of 8.8MP from 4K video in the camera
0.25 times the HD 120fps high frame rate movies for slow motion
CF (UDMA7) and dual-card slot of SD/SDHC/SDXC (UHS-I)
Built-in interval timer and valve timer
Durability of the shutter 150,000 actuations
Magnesium alloy body
Weather sealing (dust and water)
The size is 150.7mm x 116.4mm x 75.9mm (5.93 x 4.58 x 2.98 inches)
Weight: 890g/1.96lbs (battery, including memory card), 800g/1.76lbs (body only)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 19, 2016, 10:13:10 AM
and unfortunately no SDXC-UII  :'(
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on August 19, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
any info about the HDMI output?
will it be a clean HDMI?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Greg on August 20, 2016, 12:04:07 AM
Do not worry, none dev will buy 5D4.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jmanord on August 20, 2016, 01:28:44 AM
Why would they need to buy one? Surely the leaked photos are enough to allow the devs to have ML working on day one. If not, I'm sure they are highly motivated by all the $ and thank you posts that are heaped upon them daily.  ;)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on August 20, 2016, 11:37:10 AM
Look Canon, here is the source code http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview (http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview)
Please tweak it a little so it works on your nice newly 5d4  ;D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on August 20, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
Look Canon, here is the source code http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview (http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview)
Please tweak it a little so it works on your nice newly 5d4  ;D

:D ahahahhahaha if only.. could I e-mail this comment to Canon CEO :D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mikekx102 on August 21, 2016, 06:45:52 AM
KelvinK, do you have a reference for the 5D mark IV not supporting UHS-II in its SD slot? Such as a link to where those specifications are from. Canon Rumors don't specify the speed, and I haven't found its speed mentioned in any of the other rumor locations, but this really is an important feature (to be UHS-II) and I would really hope Canon would include it.

The 5D mark iii didn't support UHS-I and was limited to 133x (20MB/s), which is why it is so important to use CF cards. The 6D was released later and supported UHS-I, and card tests at the time showed many cards transferring at 35-36 MB/s. UHS-II has been released and the fastest SD card I can find is the Lexar Professional 2000x UHS-II SDXC which is 300MB/s. As opposed to available CF cards max speed of 160MB/s.

That same SD card in tests has shown extended write speeds of 250MB/s. For a camera that doesn't have CFast 2, to me this would be an acceptable downgrade and if ML can produce Raw 4K, then I would definitely like the fastest card available. UHS-I makes me cringe!

I have a 4K monitor and although I mostly take photos, I would also like to create landscape screensavers, such as waves crashing on rocks etc. So I'm really looking forward to what ML can do with the 5D Mark iv. I'm not sure how I can contribute, but I would really like to.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 23, 2016, 06:02:35 PM
UHS-I can be found from the original source:
http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-12.html
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 25, 2016, 05:38:06 AM
Announced
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-the-eos-5d-mark-iv-dslr/

Canon USA
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary

HDMI and USB ports are lot better and for bonus there's USB 3.0 Micro B port cable protector included.

Comparison to 5D Mark III
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/comparison

Video samples
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/videos

B&H first look - with video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives-two-updated-l-series-lenses
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jsc on August 25, 2016, 06:33:03 AM
I see that HDMI is limited to Full HD only. Boo! Is it humanly possible that ML could hack this so that I could get 4K to my Pix-e5?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on August 25, 2016, 08:44:26 AM
My Dinamic range bet is: 12.90 EV.

@a1ex can calculate this at iso 100, normalized at the size of the frame  cropped for video at the new (same as 1D II) Digic 6 +
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on August 25, 2016, 11:07:13 AM
if the camera can write at least at 130mb/s and we could get 2.5k/24 or 1920x818/50fps nonstop i would be happy. also waiting for some sensor testing for the most critical aspect- DR.
and ofc lets pray for some1 to port ML :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 25, 2016, 02:06:40 PM
Most of these as expected:
- DCI 4K (not UHD) center crop 1.74x
- 500 Mbps in 8-bit 4:2:2 at 29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps
- FullHD 59.94fps 4:2:0 8-bit
- External recording uncompressed 1080 YCbCr 4:2:2 8-bit, no 4K
- HDMI 1.3
- USB 3.0
- Same CF card, SD card is UHS-I only
- Single Digic 6+, however, promo video shows Digic 6 also:
https://youtu.be/8Z9089048wk?t=46s


Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 25, 2016, 02:27:06 PM
I really hope that Magic Lantern RAW video support is possible on the 5D Mark IV for 4K recording!~

https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/25/canons-eos-5d-mark-iv-has-a-34-megapixel-sensor-and-4k-video/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Lars Steenhoff on August 25, 2016, 02:48:38 PM
Yes still very exiting as a possible RAW hack camera, to have a raw camera with autofocus is great potential.  not so much interesting without hack for video work.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 25, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
OK trying to sum some thoughts up, hardware limitations currently reducing possibilities with Magic Lantern....
These are limitations with CF card system, and CPU buffer, right?

To get that DCI 4K at 25, 24, 23.98 fps RAW would hit that limitation?
Motion JPEG is heavy tough. RAW might be easier? Also the crop helps?
Sadly it's weird crop for traditional framing, but not the worst.
USB 3.0 some help for the Dev's?
And new Digic 6+ power.

Latest 5D mark III firmware didn't dance so well with ML?
6D Mark II coming up 2017 probably with better 4K crop factor.


Edit: Maybe 12-bit/10-bit 4K/FullHD RAW could be easier?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5601.0
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: festr on August 25, 2016, 03:19:07 PM
maybe the digic6+ would allow some dng compression?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 25, 2016, 03:21:42 PM
Wonder if ML would be able to do the 4K RAW without crop or am i misunderstanding that possibility?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on August 25, 2016, 03:56:12 PM
Latest 5D mark III firmware didn't dance so well with ML?

Sorry?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 25, 2016, 04:04:57 PM
2016 year. Canon new camera. 3500$ price tag.... Mono MIC. Period.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Kharak on August 25, 2016, 05:17:54 PM
1.74x crop is very meh to me..

But then again, full frame dci 4k 500 mbps 422 would cannibalize on their cinema line. So not very surprising that their flagship photo camera does not have anything serious to offer in the video department.

I was expecting a soft pixel bined 4k h264 image.

Even 2.5 k raw 1:1 will result in something like 3x crop. Also useless, but who knows.. This is Magic Lantern after all and the magic the developers here have made in the past and today proves to me, never to say never.

I also noticed the dual or two cpu's in the promo video. A digic 6+ and digic 6, so some serious cpu power. But I got a feeling Canon made some extra effort to prevent hacking.. No source just looking at how the 5D ML III took its share of the C100 line. I dont think they want a repeat of that, as in no C-log for the 1dx II and mkIV.

But overall it looks like an amazing photographic camera.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: katrikura on August 25, 2016, 05:34:32 PM
I leave an ironic, but real analysis of the camera 5D4:

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20499-174x-a-crop-odyssey-canon-5d-mark-iv-officially-announced/ (http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20499-174x-a-crop-odyssey-canon-5d-mark-iv-officially-announced/)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ddelreal on August 25, 2016, 06:03:08 PM
Epic Canon fail. I sure hope ML can come to my 7D2 soon or I might finally be done with Canon.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Kharak on August 25, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
I would take anything Andrew Reid writes with a grain of salt. He is consumed with fanboyism and contradictions as he "reviews" cameras on speccs rather than usage. Basically the entire eoshd forum is that way, where people are extremely offended with negative reviews of their purchases or eager to promote why their camera is still the best.

But eoshd has a really good anamorphic forum.

And its "sarcastic" @katrikura
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ansius on August 25, 2016, 08:45:11 PM
IMHO

well 1.74x crop would be ok if you could mount EFs lenses, there are some good ones that are sharp enough for 4K, good that most 3rd party manufacturers like sigma, tamron and tokina make their glass EF not EFs mount, despite not covering the FF sensor. So unless there are some other huge problems like moire it is still a good option then. tough if it got moire then - sorry, but canon really screwed this up then...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jackmoro on August 25, 2016, 10:52:42 PM
@ansius  Do you expect people change lenses for stills and video? This is ridiculous. 4 years of anticipation for 4k 1.74x crop mode. And mono mic is a just a joke too. QQ.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: reddeercity on August 26, 2016, 12:39:23 AM
I Think Canon did I Good job ! Considering there have a complete Line of Cine Cameras .   
From what I can see & read it looks like there used 1DC firmware Video functions in to the 5d4 .
Canon did say there where going to make 5d4 a Low cost High quality Video rich feature dslr and for 3499.00 USD .
You could spend twice that and get a c100 and get all those video cameras extra , Oh but wait AVC 4.2.0 and no 4K 4.2.2 DCI
Or C300 Mrk2 and get 10bit 4k raw 12,000 USD , So yea 5d4 is what I expected . Can't wait to get a hands on when my Camera Store
gets one in stock . And of course there will be firmware updates that could unlock more features I'm betting .

I see only 2 draw backs but not really a problem,
1st) 29:59 minute record limit (since this is no longer required anymore , I  think there are protecting the Cine/Video Camera lines)
2nd) Picture Style , I would have like to see the Canon C-Log but there is room for 3 user picture style profiles , So Technicolor CineStyle should work
Or the 1DC's VideoX picture Style VideoX picture Style (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/picturestyle/file/videocamera.html)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 26, 2016, 06:56:45 AM
Is this true, no chance currently for non-CROP 1.73x 4K?

"Based on their current understanding and implementation of RAW video, they can only crop in to a smaller area, not expanding the imaging area." :

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20499-174x-a-crop-odyssey-canon-5d-mark-iv-officially-announced/?do=findComment&comment=158190
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 26, 2016, 07:44:33 AM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 26, 2016, 11:06:12 AM
reddeercity

Unfortunately you're wrong.

1. 1DC has C-Log, grading wise (if you ever tried) it's no where close to Technicolor CineSyle. It's looks similar on paper only.
2. 1DC has 1.3x crop

Saying, "this is good, because they have Cine line", is wrong too. It could be true only if there were no rivals on the market. Sony, Panasonic has Cine lines too, but still managing to give much more features for their customers in their hybrid cameras. Canon didn't include even simple zebras and made our 24mm become 42mm when shooting 4k. Probably to force us buy new 16-35.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mikekx102 on August 26, 2016, 11:30:27 AM
No CFast sucks, but what really grinds my gears is UHS-I. Since you could use a UHS-I or II card in a UHS-II slot, the only reason I can see for this is that Canon DESPERATELY don't want ML hacks allowing for great video. I was really hoping for media options that could allow for 4k Raw video. It also means that the image buffer is (pathetically) small.

USB3, on the other hand, allows for theoretical transfer speeds of up to 640MB/s, and since RAW video fills a card so quickly anyway, perhaps ML could allow for tethered video shooting where the video is saved straight onto a laptop via USB3. Is there a reason this couldn't work?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on August 26, 2016, 12:50:50 PM
so sad for the 5d4 :(
most future just leaning back to still photo cameras (oh wait... DPraw is good? but you have to use DPP.... maybe wait untill adobe support it in lightroom?)
if ML wont be running on 5d4, I am done with canon going to full sony for sure.

canon just wanted the filmakers to buy their overpriced C line up
/cry for us low budget productions
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on August 26, 2016, 12:55:29 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor

for super35 camera has huge advantage over the 5D4, coz you can use speedbooster to get 1 stop light and yuou will get back a closer full frame 35mm fov at the end.
for 5D4 you are doommed.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 26, 2016, 01:17:49 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor

This is wrong statement. To get real crop you should select correct Reference Frame. Red Full Frame native 5k has 1x crop, 4k - 1.25x etc.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: thrower on August 26, 2016, 02:41:34 PM
Sorry guys, probably that's very dumb question but:

How the heck mkVI is storing listed in specs 500 Mbps 4k Mjpeg video onto CF card?

Am I messing up writing speed and bitrate?
-----------
Al in all that's really sad day. Sonys and m4\3s are great cameras but i think we all have been dreaming about affordable Full-frame RAW 4k from Canon, with all low-light and DPOF possibilities, especially with Dual-pixel AF, which is HUGE for gimbals and drones.

Of course there haven't been any warranties that ML team have will and\or possibility to hack mkVI successfully, but anyway that would be HUGE accelerator on the market - forcing every other manufacture to speed up and drop prices on existing stuff. In the end, we all just win from that. Even if canon would feature one cfast slot - that would cause a massive demand on cfast, IMO substantial for making them bit cheaper.
Now, since Canon has said their word, i think it's much less pressure on Sony (since they already dominate "dslr"-video with much older models and Nikon (since their d810 de-facto is one of the best landscape\studio cameras and it's 2 years old)

I would love if mkVI sales would break down, but that's not true - there are army of fanboys and simply professional photographers who have been stuck at not really contemporary mkIII so again canon would be off the hook for their crippling policy.

Actually, AS FOR TODAY, taking in account 5d MKVI - is good and balanced stills camera from one of the most reliable manufacturer. much overpriced though.

But just IMAGINE those UHS-i cards in 2019 or 2020 on a canon PRO full-frame camera.... cant believe they did it...

But as for me - there's nothing i cannot do with my mk III and 6d in terms of photography, what mkVI can offer, I'll wait, or pull trigger on BM.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on August 26, 2016, 05:20:40 PM
Maybe you guys shouldn't worry about crop factor, before you get the concept right.

Crop Factor compared to 5D FullFrame.
(Source is Abelcine FOV comparator - in the ballpark, not updated lately)

Crop Factor = 1.2x
- Canon 1DC at 4K (as known as APS-H)

Crop Factor = 1.3x
- RED Dragon 6K HD

Crop Factor = 1.4x
- Super35 Film
- RED Epic 5K HD

Crop Factor = 1.5x
- Arri Alexa (2.8k I think)
- Canon 7D (as know as APS-C)
- Canon C100
- Canon C300
- Canon C500
- Panavision Genesis
- Sony F65
- Sony FS700

Crop Factor = 1.6x
- Sony F55/F5

Crop Factor = 1.7x
- RED Epic 4K HD
- BlackMagic Production Camera 4K

Crop Factor = 2.0-2.9x
- BlackMagic Cinema Camera 2.3x
- Black Magic Pocket Camera 2.9x

Crop Factor = 3x
- Super16 Film
- Sony F5/F55 2K Center Crop
 
Micro Four Thirds = about 2.0x
Canon XC10 = 2.7x
Broadcasting cameras 2/3-inch chip = around 3.8x
iPhone 6 = 7.2x
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 26, 2016, 05:25:28 PM
Seems a Red One (if speedbooster exists for it) is a better option than the 5D4?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-One-MX-Mysterium-X-Camera-with-CF-module-PL-mount/251689683525?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38806%26meid%3D709fe934acce4b159196a212f7526034%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D162176987397
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jackmoro on August 26, 2016, 09:40:07 PM
@erek, Red will always have much better native image then native Canon DSLR, but you can't compare it price wise. One you linked is just body-brick, you will need spend much more for accessories to start film with it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jackmoro on August 26, 2016, 10:32:49 PM
old but fits well :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on August 27, 2016, 12:12:46 AM
^
Damn I laugh so hard on this one....
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Clean76 on August 27, 2016, 04:17:41 AM
Well im excited about the new one. Wont be out for awhile and already seeing deals thatll let me upgrade to a 5DM2 or even M3 from my old T4i. Excited to enter the world of continuous HD RAW
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Ilia3101 on August 27, 2016, 06:18:55 PM
Canon has taken inspiration from Magic Lantern:
(Skip to 13:50)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on August 28, 2016, 06:36:19 AM
Canon has taken inspiration from Magic Lantern:
(Skip to 13:50)
Yea I also noticed, the way they did the HDR video just exactly same as ML did it.
wonder they just copy paste ML code into thier firmware lol.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 28, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
I came to the realization that the general Internet Infrastructure isn't really up to par for 4K streaming, and barely 1080p even.  Most smart phones / cellular networks aren't going to be doing 4K.  My only interest in Full Frame 4K 14-bit Uncompressed RAW video is the advantage of possible image quality after down sampling to 1080p.   I don't see many real viable delivery methods to the mass public where even 1080p streaming over a smart phone with our current internet infrastructure is unrealistic unless on Wi-Fi.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Danne on August 28, 2016, 04:09:30 PM
HDR mode reminds of averaging/tonemapping the way it can be done with ffmpeg tblend filter in post. Probably won,t be possible to set iso intervals.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 28, 2016, 06:42:21 PM
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 28, 2016, 11:06:27 PM
5D Mark IV Rolling Shutter Performance isn't too good either:

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on August 29, 2016, 10:33:15 AM
I came to the realization that the general Internet Infrastructure isn't really up to par for 4K streaming, and barely 1080p even.  Most smart phones / cellular networks aren't going to be doing 4K.  My only interest in Full Frame 4K 14-bit Uncompressed RAW video is the advantage of possible image quality after down sampling to 1080p.   I don't see many real viable delivery methods to the mass public where even 1080p streaming over a smart phone with our current internet infrastructure is unrealistic unless on Wi-Fi.

You don't need to post video in 4k, just downscale if needed. But 4k in post gives you crop freedom, less stress in field when framing etc.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on September 01, 2016, 06:10:36 AM
Wish the 5D Mark IV had a Global Shudder a la their brand new CMOS Sensor :

http://petapixel.com/2016/08/31/canon-unveils-cmos-sensor-global-shutter/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: reddeercity on September 01, 2016, 08:31:04 AM

If could find a old red camera like the video for cheap , I would be all over it ! The number 1 reason is basically the workflow
you can work with the raw native in FCPX , that's the workflow I always hope for in ML Raw video.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on September 01, 2016, 09:56:15 AM
The number 1 reason is basically the workflow
you can work with the raw native in FCPX , that's the workflow I always hope for in ML Raw video.
I wonder how hard if you reverse engine to r3d format and implant into mlv?
Is it posible? :o
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 01, 2016, 10:14:55 AM
r3d format is probably patented or something like that, because it's also a compressed raw format.
So copying it, would be some sort of illegal I guess ;D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on September 01, 2016, 10:39:41 AM
r3d format is probably patented or something like that, because it's also a compressed raw format.
So copying it, would be some sort of illegal I guess ;D
doh, I hope my programing skill is good enuff to do it myself and made a custom r3d for myself lol.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 04, 2016, 02:38:40 PM
FYI, Laurent Clévy, the guy behind http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/, already found out how to extract dual pixel data from a 5D4 CR2:

https://twitter.com/lorenzo2472/status/771085695255474176
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 06, 2016, 02:05:14 AM
Sneak preview of what's inside a dual pixel RAW:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/_91A0045.gif)

Middle: main image data; Laurent calls it "unsliced"; probably (a+b)
Right: what Laurent calls "unslicedB"
Left: "unsliced" - "unslicedB"

https://twitter.com/autoexec_bin/status/772943052797276160
https://twitter.com/hirax/status/772784433761951744

Noise levels in optical black area: 3.55 for main, 3.47 for B, 3.49 for difference. White level 16383, black level 2048, useful range 14335 DN.

Image B has 1 stop of extra highlight detail, compared to main. DR (simplified): log2(14335 / 3.54) = 12 stops in main image, 13 stops if you take the highlights from B.

edit: some rough notes: 5d4-dual-pixel.html (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-dual-pixel.html)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dfort on September 06, 2016, 02:38:17 AM
Well this is interesting. I worked on 3D productions and that does look very much like left eye/right eye images. Don't know what to make of the third eye!

Shooting 3D with a single lens and sensor was being developed by Lytro. Their first product's claim to fame was that you could adjust the focus in post. However they never caught on and the company no longer manufactures consumer products, though Lytro (https://www.lytro.com/) is still developing some interesting VR technology.

Wonder if there's a 3D option coming for the 5D4.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on September 06, 2016, 08:17:56 AM
Dual Pixel RAW is certainly looking intriguing. I'm curious to know if the hardware can control the ISO of the A and B pixels separately, opening up the possibility of an improved type of dual ISO. [Edit: I guess this is unlikely, given dual ISO works by alternating ISO every second row rather than by column]

There's a few new pieces of info about the 5D4 in general in this interview:

http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2016/09/03/canon-5d-mark-iv-eos-1dx-mark-ii-and-5ds-r-top-canon-tech-rep-rudy-winston-answers-my-questions-and-yours/

Interesting to see that using UHS-II SD cards might give worse performance than UHS-I.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 06, 2016, 09:01:19 AM
Interesting to see that using UHS-II SD cards might give worse performance than UHS-I.

That's quite old news. (http://www.legitreviews.com/sandisk-extreme-pro-uhs-ii-32gb-memory-card-review_142592/2) You can find some of the cards affected in http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/reviews/card-readers/transcend-usb-3-0-card-reader-rdf5/
All the cards marked UHS-II and running below 70 MByte/s writing should not be used in Canon cams with fast UHS-I slots:
- Lexar Professional 1000x microSD UHS-II 32GB (64 GB and up are performing better)
- Delkin 1900x UHS-II 32GB
- SanDisk Extreme Pro 280MB/s UHS-II 32GB (all of them AFAIK, but new Extreme Pro generation (275 MB/s) not affected)
- Panasonic MicroP2 UHS-II 32GB
and maybe others.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: squig on September 06, 2016, 09:49:55 AM
I'm getting the impression from the cinema5D article and video that 1080p is downsampled not pixel binned.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: eduperez on September 06, 2016, 10:25:10 AM
Well this is interesting. I worked on 3D productions and that does look very much like left eye/right eye images. Don't know what to make of the third eye!
Wonder if there's a 3D option coming for the 5D4.

Well, it is a left/right eye image, only that the distance between the eyes is in the order of magnitude of the diameter of the front lens, so I would not expect much 3D effect from this; here you have a quick anaglyph conversion from the image posted above (red filter on left eye, blue filter on right eye):

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14091554/ML/5Dmk4.png)

The "third eye" in that example is created during the RAW conversion by merging the images from both eyes; as far as I know, it should not be relevant to 3D.

EDIT: Another interesting facts about this technology:
* Both images will be automatically aligned on the focusing distance: objects closer to the camera than the focusing plane will appear to come out of the monitor, and objects further away than the focusing pane will appear to be inside the monitor; the focusing plane will always match the surface of the monitor.
* The amount of 3D effect will depend on the aperture used to take the image: the larger the aperture, the larger the effect; in images taken using the hyperfocal technique, there will be no 3D effect at all.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 06, 2016, 02:25:11 PM
Highlight recovery demo (the extra stop I was talking about):

http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/canon-dual-pixel-mode-highlights-are-there
http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Greg on September 06, 2016, 04:03:37 PM
http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-patent-next-dual-pixel-cmos-auto-focus-70d-end-story/
http://www.dailycameranews.com/2015/06/canon-patent-for-nd-filter-to-increase-dynamic-range/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 06, 2016, 08:52:50 PM
I downloaded some canon 5d4 raw files from that swedish site, curious about how much focus shift can be done.
Downloaded the newest Digital Photo Professional 4 (version 4.4.30.2) from the canon website.
But it can't open/recognize the 5d4 files...

Does anybody know where can I download the actual DPP4 version which can open the CR2's from the 5d4 ?


Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 06, 2016, 09:01:46 PM
By the way, Interesting stuff, that extra stop in the highlights  :D
According to that ND patent, it's a ND filter in the microlens which can be switched on and off...so it's not done on CMOS level, like dual iso.
I guess this means it's fixed at only one stop of difference, between the two images.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 06, 2016, 10:36:53 PM
Here, it looks like Canon simply adds the signals from both subpixels and clips the result. The patent makes it possible to push it even further, but I doubt this one is used here.

The extra highlights in the second image will effectively give a true ISO 50. The Swedish sample is at ISO 400, but the comments at http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology confirm my hypothesis.

However, it's not clear to me whether selecting ISO 50 in Canon menu actually brings that extra highlight detail in the main raw image. The comments on the RawDigger website seem to suggest this is not the case, but I'm not 100% sure.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Simonwb on September 08, 2016, 06:42:40 PM
Well, my 5D4 has arrived but I won't get time to play with it until this weekend.  I could try to shoot some comparison footage - would you like to see any formats in particular?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on September 08, 2016, 07:26:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0S8shTk94E
looks like the dual pixel not as what we expected nothing come close to lytro :(
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 08, 2016, 09:25:00 PM
Well, my 5D4 has arrived but I won't get time to play with it until this weekend.  I could try to shoot some comparison footage - would you like to see any formats in particular?

Yes, please.

Our friends from darktable are also looking for samples to add support for 5D4 in their next version, so I'm including their requirements as well.

To check white levels (for darktable):
  - take a picture at every single ISO, in both dual pixel and regular (full-sized) raw mode.
  - every picture should have some overexposed highlights.

To check crop area (for darktable):
  - a fully clipped sample at ISO 100, 30s, fully open aperture. Both dual and regular.

For color profiling:
  - preferred (for darktable): https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2010/06/28/darktable-camera-color-profiling/
  - easier (good enough for me): a static colorful scene, taken with both 5D4 and another full-frame Canon camera. Same settings, same lens, same framing. Both sunlight and tungsten light (doesn't have to be the same scene). Regular raw only, ISO 100.

For checking the dynamic range and SNR curve:
  - prepare a HDR static scene (a desk lamp pointed towards the camera, and some black items near it, something like this (http://wiki.panotools.org/File:Lamp_enfuse.jpg)).
  - if you are in PAL land, and your light source flickers, use a shutter speed of 1/50, 1/25 and so on.
  - defocus the lens
  - for every ISO:
      - choose a shutter speed and aperture that gives some clipped highlights and some deep shadows in the same picture
      - take two pictures using the built-in intervalometer (no motion between them)
      - take a bracketed set of images, centered at the settings used for the previous step (5 x 1 EV should be fine).
  - dual raw only.

For playing with the dual pixel refocusing tricks:
  - a resolution chart or some fine print, taken with perfect focus, front focus (various degrees) and back focus (various degrees).
  - any other test pictures you consider relevant for this feature, focus-bracketed in the same way.
  - repeat at various apertures and focus distances (not extensive coverage, just some random configurations of your choice)
  - ISO 100, dual raw only, with as little camera motion as possible.

For playing with super-resolution tricks (you know, getting a 60-megapixel picture):
  - with a zoom lens, take pictures of something with fine details (resolution chart, fine print, textures that give heavy aliasing, whatever) at a few focal lengths, with slightly bracketed focus, at the aperture setting where your lens is the sharpest.
  - ISO 100, dual raw only, with as little camera motion as possible.

You don't have to do all of these at once; it will probably take more than one weekend to capture everything I've asked for. And it will probably take me months to analyze all that :D

For me, individual files on a FTP server would work best, but archives (separate for each subtask) should work as well. I prefer simple links (accessible from a text-based browser) and files named properly (so I can recognize what they are before downloading).

Thanks, hope my request is not too overwhelming. Of course, other 5D4 owners are welcome to help.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rawvideo on September 08, 2016, 10:13:31 PM
Well, my 5D4 has arrived but I won't get time to play with it until this weekend.  I could try to shoot some comparison footage - would you like to see any formats in particular?

I would very much like a night scene of a street or something similar, mostly dark with a few bright lights (streetlamps), high ISO, maybe the highest the 5DIII does with auto iso and then 2 raws with the same image and lens from the 5DIII and 5DIV. No longtime exposures, just fast enough to be handheld. :) To see if there is any improvement for my lowlight theater photography (besides the now actually and finally visible focus points).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: MitchLally on September 09, 2016, 05:46:35 AM
I got my Mark IV yesterday. Doing a bunch of tests and I dared try to record 4K 24p to my Sandisk 95mb/s SD card. It recorded an uninterrupted 16 minute file (63GB single file) to the card.

I guess this is good news for the SD slot speed?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 09, 2016, 07:16:57 AM
Thanks! Seems to be legit to say Canon has implemented fastest UHS-I mode (UHS104/SDR104: 99.18 MiByte/s) in 5D4, too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Simonwb on September 09, 2016, 08:54:47 AM
@a1ex @rawvideo

Will do, I'll let you know how I get on.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on September 09, 2016, 04:52:15 PM
5D4 teardown: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/09/lensrentals-canon-5d-mk-iv-teardown/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on September 11, 2016, 05:36:03 AM
Sorry if the girl is the girlfriend or wife of someone here,  but, I think I will found her and make lot of videos ;)

(5d IV video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5rn1ZnnSTY

Other girl to find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpfUcN0hLY

Vote: girl 1 or girl 2

:)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rawvideo on September 11, 2016, 10:37:35 PM
That 4k Video looks like upscaled 1080p. :D I've seen crisper 4k content, but maybe the small depth of field makes it look softer than usual..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2016, 10:25:31 AM
Depth map (two algorithms):

(http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/arc/F9/DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934/input_0.png) (http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/arc/F9/DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934/input_1.png)
(http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/arc/F9/DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934/disparity.png) (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/dmap.jpg)

First algorithm (online demo):
http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/archive/?key=F9DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934

Second algorithm is from OpenCV 3.x (tutorial (http://docs.opencv.org/3.1.0/dd/d53/tutorial_py_depthmap.html)):

Code: [Select]
import numpy as np
import cv2

# read input images
imgL = cv2.imread('A.jpg',0)
imgR = cv2.imread('B.jpg',0)

# compute the depth map
stereo = cv2.StereoSGBM_create(minDisparity=-8, numDisparities=16, blockSize=15)
disparity = stereo.compute(imgL,imgR) + 128

# convert to 8-bit (required by medianBlur)
disparity = np.clip(disparity, 0, 255)
disparity = disparity.astype(np.uint8)

# clean up the depth map a bit
disparity = cv2.medianBlur(disparity, 15)

# adjust levels to increase contrast (hardcoded)
disparity = np.clip((disparity.astype(np.int32) - 80) * 4, 0, 255);

# save the depth map image
cv2.imwrite("dmap.jpg", disparity)

Can you get better results?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on September 12, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
Looks like stereoscopic images are possible, with quite good results: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58326573
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dragit on September 13, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Hi everyone, long time reader, first time poster…

Just wondering what people think the likelihood is of frame rates higher than 50/60 are at 1080 in the future with ML?

I can live with quality of the H264 codec and haven't got time for the current RAW workflow, but would love the ability to shoot 100/120FPS like the 1DX ii 1080.

cheers
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Greg on September 13, 2016, 05:30:56 PM
Who said that ML will support 5D4?

1Dx II has a faster sensor. If you compare full-res FPS, 5D4 should 80-90 FPS.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Simonwb on September 18, 2016, 01:19:28 PM
@a1ex here's my first batch of test images:

To check white levels: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mv9ukwyueeh5cq7/AAB7hCeEqFzvqNZNAofza8XAa?dl=0

To check crop area: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l4h7xiue8vc2mda/AADQnaxi14kRglNFmKHmba7Va?dl=0

For colour profiling: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bo9gc02eyde7yjm/AADmjsp-v6OKXEJfL8l3HCP3a?dl=0

I'm a real newbie at this, so I hope these files are useful.  Unfortunately, the darktable colour profiling page completely mystified me.

On the dynamic range & SNR curve: could you explain what you mean by "a bracketed set of images....5 x 1EV"; I understand bracketing, but not the 5 x 1EV part.

On the dual pixel refocusing: what do you mean by front focus and back focus?  The only terminology I'm familiar with is back button focussing...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Simonwb on September 18, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
@rawvideo

Here's my attempt at your requested night scene shots: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q1fpp5bg37mxkob/AADfvKFyGV2p4-Kuw4Z-sHvra?dl=0

Hope they work for you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 18, 2016, 01:23:55 PM
Thanks, will check them later.

5 x 1 EV is the notation used by ML (5 pictures spaced 1 EV apart).

For your last question: http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/14437/what-do-frontfocus-and-backfocus-mean
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rawvideo on September 18, 2016, 02:55:15 PM
@Simonwb

Nice, thanks for the effort. :)

Seems I wont upgrade for the better image quality but just for the better AF in the dark, WLAN and better AutoISO.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Simonwb on September 25, 2016, 02:23:17 PM
@a1ex here's my dual pixel raw focus bracketing shots:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1yj3ne852z2aupb/AAD-CuZds0RzIk5OkPEQwJTAa?dl=0

Thanks for the link explaining front/back focus; I don't know if/how to force this in-camera using autofocus, so I did it using manual focus via EOS Utility remote shooting on a Macbook, hopefully finely enough and in a systematic way for you - I'm assuming you can pick up the apertures used etc used on each shot via the exif information?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on September 29, 2016, 02:23:56 PM
The first firmware update is available for 5D4:

http://www.canon.de/support/consumer_products/products/cameras/digital_slr/eos-5d-mark-iv.aspx?type=firmware&firmwaredetailid=tcm:83-1475064
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 29, 2016, 08:49:25 PM
Tried to run it in QEMU, with some missing bits from 80D:

Code: [Select]
BootLoaderEND
K349 READY
K349 ICU Firmware Version 1.0.2 ( 7.4.6 )
ICU Release DateTime 2016.08.08 13:27:10

Code: [Select]
[      init:fe2b5f0d ] task_create(PowerMgr, prio=20, stack=400, entry=fe2b5e35, arg=0)
[      init:000022bf ] task_create(DbgMgr, prio=1f, stack=0, entry=223b, arg=816454)
[      init:fe0e77d7 ] task_create(Startup, prio=19, stack=2800, entry=fe0e76c9, arg=816c78)
[      init:fe0de4a5 ] task_create(TaskMain, prio=1d, stack=0, entry=fe0dd9a1, arg=0)
[      init:fe0e14b7 ] task_create(RomRead, prio=11, stack=400, entry=fe0e0ef7, arg=600006)
[      init:fe0e14c9 ] task_create(SFRead, prio=11, stack=400, entry=fe0e0ef7, arg=620008)

Code: [Select]
Setting BOOTDISK flag to FFFFFFFF
BootLoad
CF Detect High
SLOT_A LOAD OK.
Open file for read : AUTOEXEC.BIN
File size : 0xD120
Now jump to AUTOEXEC.BIN!!
Open file for write : ROM1.BIN
File close.
Write done.
Open file for write : ROM1.MD5
File close.
Write done.

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/qemu-5d4.png)

Any volunteers to try the following?
- LED blinking (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17848.msg172321#msg172321) (already tested)
- display test (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14732.0) (please PM me for a FIR)
- ROM dumper (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16534.0) (please PM me for a FIR)
- jumping to main firmware

And, after getting it to run on 80D:
- running user code alongside main firmware

8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jrumans on September 30, 2016, 10:47:17 AM
Hey A1ex, I exceeded 5 PMs per hour and can't send right now. The Firmware Jump didn't appear to do anything, which I imagine is intentional.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 30, 2016, 12:34:59 PM
FYI, the display test went like this:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-disperr.jpg) (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/qemu-5d4-disperr.png)

Second picture is my attempt to understand what happened and reproduce the error in QEMU.

After the fix:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-works.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: nikfreak on September 30, 2016, 01:24:23 PM
Great progress. Is this your 5D IV?  8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 30, 2016, 02:08:31 PM
Quote
Artist: Jeff Rumans

;)

Some low-level details:

At first I've noticed the display uses different registers, and that resolution changed to 900x600 (from 720x480) but I've assumed the rest of the code is similar to 80D (and all other D6 cameras).

Code: [Select]
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018228] <- 0x310000  : BMP VRAM
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018200] <- 0x2580384 : Display resolution
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018230] <- 0x2580384 : Display resolution

The 80D requires the display buffer address to be shifted by 8, so I've assumed the 5D4 does the same. With this assumption, everything looked fine in QEMU; I couldn't get Canon's error screens, but I assumed they were not present in the firmware update.
I've also assumed the image had 8 bits per pixel and used a color palette (just like 80D).

Now, why does the first screenshot look like a broken error message?

First hint: that error message (a hardcoded image in ROM, copied to RAM) must be nearby.
Second hint: from the number of garbage lines and the horizontal shift, we can find out the position of the error message, and cross-check it with the values written by Canon code to BMP VRAM registers.

ML was setting the buffer to  0x44000000. Shifted by 8, it ended up as 0x440000.

Canon code could set the display buffer to either 0x310000 (Loading), 0x3B0000 (Not found) or 0x450000 (Error). The error screen from the first image must be at 0x450000. The camera started to display a few lines of garbage (from 0x440000 to 0x450000), then continued with the error image.

How many lines of garbage? floor(0x10000/900) = 72. Since the division is not exact, the image was also shifted by 0x10000 - 900*72 = 736 pixels.

Counting the pixels on the first screenshot gives about 73 lines of garbage and about 500 pixels of horizontal shift. The difference is pretty large in the horizontal direction.

Looking in QEMU log, near the display resolution there is a register that looks close to horizontal resolution:
Code: [Select]
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018228] <- 0x310000  : BMP VRAM
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD201822C] <- 0x3A0     : ???
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018230] <- 0x2580384 : Display resolution

0x3A0 = 928, so that might be the BMP pitch. That is, the image in memory is a bit larger than the one actually displayed. Let's check the math: floor(0x10000/928) = 70, 0x10000 - 928*70 = 576. A little closer, right?

Turns out, this value was right :)

By doing this math, I had only one failed attempt, and that attempt was actually showing exactly what I had to change (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/c1ed31fe886737dc72a8197a142cabd1da18009f).

(I now wonder why GregoryOfManhattan said the display test did not work at all a few weeks ago - from the current results, it should have at least turned on the backlight, and maybe also displayed some garbage)

The Firmware Jump didn't appear to do anything, which I imagine is intentional.

This one is not exactly good news, but I'll keep trying.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: g3gg0 on September 30, 2016, 06:46:01 PM
cool progress :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on October 04, 2016, 10:03:02 AM
Please find the ROM dumper: DUMP_5D4.FIR (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/DUMP_5D4.FIR) (confirmed by jrumans)

You will need a small SD card.

If it locks up or if you get incorrect MD5, try formatting the first 256MB from the card as FAT12, and leave the rest as unpartitioned space.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: wicq on October 09, 2016, 07:47:23 PM
Does this mean ML Team is working on the 5D mark iv?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 09, 2016, 07:53:05 PM
No, posts are generated by an AI developed by linguistic and cs departments at Universiteit van Amsterdam.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Greg on October 09, 2016, 08:05:37 PM
What when AI switch to Sony?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 09, 2016, 08:14:04 PM
One of the premises to make the AI more human-like is making illogical decisions part of the scheme. It will therefore not switch to Sony or RED.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: wicq on October 09, 2016, 09:57:19 PM
Does this mean ML Team is working on the 5D mark iv?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Oswald on October 09, 2016, 10:38:06 PM
Does this mean ML Team is working on the 5D mark iv?
It means just only that Microsoft Tay AI is shitposting to the forum.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: axelcine on October 09, 2016, 10:45:01 PM
@wicq: The 5D4 is being investigated - the same as 760D, 80D and 7DII, so a lot of people are working in their spare time testing and reverse engineering the cams. It is tedious work, like collecting stamps. If you really want to understand the job, these magnificent guys are doing, then read the 5D3-story here. Post by post. Victories, failures, retests, corrections... it is a tale of courage, stubbornness, willingness to go far beyond the call of duty - as if there ever was such one. You could base a Pulitzer-prizewinning novel on these pages:
June 14, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1006.0
September 7, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2602.msg10621#msg10621
March 10, 2015:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14704.0
Read "The Machine" by Tracy Kidder. That one also won the Pulitzer Prize. That book will give you some idea of what A1ex and his peers are really doing.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: wicq on October 09, 2016, 11:05:49 PM
Thanks axelcine  :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ddelreal on October 09, 2016, 11:44:42 PM
Quote from: axelcine
@wicq: The 5D4 is being investigated - the same as 760D, 80D and 7DII, so a lot of people are working in their spare time testing and reverse engineering the cams. It is tedious work, like collecting stamps. If you really want to understand the job, these magnificent guys are doing, then read the 5D3-story here. Post by post. Victories, failures, retests, corrections... it is a tale of courage, stubbornness, willingness to go far beyond the call of duty - as if there ever was such one. You could base a Pulitzer-prizewinning novel on these pages:
June 14, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1006.0
September 7, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2602.msg10621#msg10621
March 10, 2015:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14704.0
Read "The Machine" by Tracy Kidder. That one also won the Pulitzer Prize. That book will give you some idea of what A1ex and his peers are really doing.

Well said axelcine, well said.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on October 10, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
I am a DEVOTED user of Magic Lantern on my mkII....
Also being an artist this is my way to be able to get all what I need for my work not being able to pay a lot for my equipment
If it is possible to make the mkIV shine as well in its context I will be the first to honor this fantastic bunch of guys working in the dark for people like me
THANKS AGAIN ALL OF YOU  :D
olof thiel
photographer
stockholm
sweden
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on October 10, 2016, 12:11:33 PM
After the fix:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-works.jpg)

8)
Awesomely cool!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 11, 2016, 08:17:19 PM

Be sure to catch how much better Canon colors look and better yet the 5D4's Shadows bodes well against A7R II but not so much when it comes to Highlights...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on October 11, 2016, 08:22:16 PM
Be sure to catch how much better Canon colors look and better yet the 5D4's Shadows bodes well against A7R II but not so much when it comes to Highlights...
You mean totally worse in dynamic range..? But colors and sharpness is a winner.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 05:40:43 AM

Be sure to catch how much better Canon colors look and better yet the 5D4's Shadows bodes well against A7R II but not so much when it comes to Highlights...


@DeafEyeJedi

I prefer the girl in the video over 5d IV and Sony. Sorry, she's so cinematic! :)

A question to you, you can go to PM if you want: have yo seen a good comparation between A7 ii S (the best Sony for video. The crop factor in the 5d IV it's a big problem for my movies, I must buy new lenses. Except if king A1ex get 1:1 from the sensor... ;)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 12, 2016, 06:15:03 AM
Except if king A1ex get 1:1 from the sensor... ;)
It's already 1:1 from the sensor.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 06:35:39 AM
It's already 1:1 from the sensor.

5d4 sensor is  5760x3840 pixels
That is 1:1 or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 12, 2016, 06:58:18 AM
So you want 1:1 from the WHOLE sensor. Good luck with your dreams :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 07:27:41 AM
near 4k, without crop factor, DR 12, Raw 10 bits... it's more than enough for me.
THat's why maybe I should get a Sony Alpha, even, with that pinky colors.
I love Canon skin tone.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 12, 2016, 09:37:32 AM
So why not 1D than?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 04:58:58 PM
In my country the cameras are very expensive. I can only.buy one each time.

This conversación is out off topic. Send me a PM if you want. Or a 1D if you are american boy ;)

Thank you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 13, 2016, 11:54:15 AM
Sorry I don't troll you. I'm in same frustration. No, it's not offtopic. It's all about MKIV - because it not looks as attractive upgrade for video work from MKIII even if ML will be ported on it. Due to many reasons: huge crop in 4K, rolling shutter, unsufficient write speed for 4K in RAW and so on...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on October 14, 2016, 03:43:11 PM
Recovery tool: display test works on 5D4!

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/c1ed31fe886737dc72a8197a142cabd1da18009f?at=unified#chg-src/disp_direct.c
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on October 14, 2016, 04:34:48 PM
Interesting views from Canon USA, in HDSLR Shooter interview:
https://vimeo.com/186517570
Some talk about cards too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on October 20, 2016, 10:26:17 PM
Interesting article talking about the use of dual pixel RAW for AF Microadjustment finetuning in an upcoming version of FoCal:

https://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2016/09/bringing-dual-pixel-raw-to-reikan-focal/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on October 21, 2016, 07:47:19 AM
Thats not accurate.  I use a SanDisk Extreme Pro 512GB SDXC UHS-I Card (SDSDXPA-512G-G46) in mine for 4k and it works perfectly.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 21, 2016, 07:54:49 AM
Not sure which post you are replying to. I think it may be
unsufficient write speed for 4K in RAW

And he is right about this. You are not recording RAW ...
RAW in 4k (native DCI 4k):
4096 x 2160 x 14 x 25 / 8 = 387072000 Byte/s = 369 MiByte/s
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on October 21, 2016, 07:57:23 AM
Sorry I didn't clarify.  In the video the Canon rep said that you can only use a very, very specific card to record 4k.  He is wrong about that.  I wonder if ML can open up to export 4k through HDMI?  I say that because through my research, the HDMI tech used is capable of handling 4k. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 21, 2016, 08:43:13 AM
...through my research, the HDMI tech used is capable of handling 4k.

Really?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 21, 2016, 09:04:53 AM
And no Canon DSLR uses 24p HDMI output ...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on October 21, 2016, 09:24:09 AM
I saw that it was 1.4 a long time ago, but I guess they actually went with 1.3.  Sorry about the misinformation.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on October 21, 2016, 02:50:24 PM
It is a HDMI v1.3 - but this supports theoretically up to 1440p (2560×1440) maybe there is a possibility for more than 1080p….
Because of the CF Card Speed for me is a 10 or 12 bit Video Mode more interesting  :D

First of all: these incredible guys have to hack the mark iv.

-> If you need some testers: me and my mark iv are ready
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on October 21, 2016, 04:55:16 PM
Does anyone know, or could someone please test, can you record 1080 to external recorder while simultaneously recording 4K internally?
 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on October 21, 2016, 08:15:19 PM
Sorry  i can't. I don't have the right hdmi cable and no recorder either...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: LebedevRI on October 25, 2016, 09:15:09 PM
@Simonwb
Thank you for the samples!
Base support has been added into darktable: https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/commit/4c61a0b8725f34eb73d7d88828f4c1712e661ab9
If you want, you could take the same per-iso (please do enable extended iso range for this in camera :) ) set for mRaw and sRaw, and then i could add support for these modes too.

As for DualIso, at least for now, in darktable the base subimage is used, and any other sub-images are silently dropped.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Simonwb on October 26, 2016, 08:57:12 AM
@LebedevRI

I'm glad the samples were helpful.

Unfortunately, I can't shoot anything more for a few weeks as I'm away from home for work, but can come back to this mid-November?  I'll then have to ask you to explain more plainly what you want, or go back to A1ex's original request, because I don't know some of your terminology.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on October 29, 2016, 06:20:12 PM
Just saw this on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQI3-xCk_m8hWMYQwT05GQ
Log Neutral on the 5D Mark IV. Looks promising.
The video links to this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.0

Shouldn’t there be a 5D mark IV sticky thread in the Camera specific discussion? Starting with detailed specs of the camera? Current post was started before the 5D4 came out with rumored specs. May be a good idea to start a fresh camera specific thread?

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on October 30, 2016, 04:31:10 AM
Quote
Shouldn’t there be a 5D mark IV sticky thread in the Camera specific discussion? Starting with detailed specs of the camera? Current post was started before the 5D4 came out with rumored specs. May be a good idea to start a fresh camera specific thread?
Nope.
You and I will be sitting back, hoping and waiting for that thread to opened by people who can confirm that ML will work on 5D Mark IV (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1006.0).
Who knows, that might happen next week, 2018, never.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: OlRivrRat on October 31, 2016, 06:02:22 PM
                 @Walter

"Not sure which post you are replying to. I think it may be"

   So, Just which post might this have been a reply to ~
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dfort on November 01, 2016, 06:48:54 AM
Just saw this on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQI3-xCk_m8hWMYQwT05GQ
Log Neutral on the 5D Mark IV. Looks promising.
The video links to this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.0

Cool. Looks like the Reverse Engineering Picture Styles (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.0) topic is getting some press.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on November 01, 2016, 11:20:53 AM
The mjpeg file format for video on the 5D mark IV makes HUGE files. Really bad choice. Correct me if I'm wrong but if magic lantern manages to hack the 5D4, it would potentially enable raw recording but won't be able to enable recording in mp4 H265 for example? This could only be implementend by Canon, is that correct?
 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bouncyball on November 01, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
MJPEG on Canon _is_not_a_bad_choice_ at all. It's just 8 bit and 4.2.0 and that is a bit dealbreaker not the size (bitrate 500mbit if I remember correctly). Raw data would be even bigger :P.

And I'm sure recording 4K raw will never be possible longer than available RAM allows (several secs I guess) on 5dm4 with ML.

Regards
bb

P.S. Yes you are right about H265.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ph2007 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:25 PM
And I'm sure recording 4K raw will never be possible longer than available RAM allows (several secs I guess) on 5dm4 with ML.

1080 60/120fps raw I am darn happy with it, otherwise i would stay on a7s or fs5 haha
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on November 01, 2016, 05:26:45 PM
4K mjpeg is in 4:2:2 on 5d mark iv ;)

I did read the information about fps override. But i'm not shure about that: could there be a posibility to record full hd (1080p) with more than 60fps in h.264 with ml?

Ps: [email protected] in raw....not a big hope for that. Depending on buffer size some seconds are possible. [email protected] in raw-> no way :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on November 02, 2016, 10:35:45 AM
It's just 8 bit and 4.2.0

its 422 in 4K
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on November 02, 2016, 10:44:11 AM
I don't mind having huge files if they provide me with flexibility in post-production but Canon's 4K MJPEG don't.
As anyone tried the Log Neutral (link above) on the 5D4? If so, would you be OK to share some of that footage?
Having no peaking for me is just impossible, I hope ML will bring it to the 5D4.




Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on November 02, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
Quote
Having no peaking for me is just impossible, I hope ML will bring it to the 5D4.

What do you mean?

I made some tests with picture styles (not Neutral, i used my own) you'll get more details in dark or bright parts.
But it's not the same like raw Video :-P
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on November 02, 2016, 01:40:03 PM
I'm talking about the lack of focus peaking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_peaking).
As far as I know the 5D4 doesn't have any.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on November 02, 2016, 01:45:05 PM
but Canon's 4K MJPEG don't.

im also wondering what you mean...have you tried to grade mjpeg and you find results same as h264? i dont have the camera yet but some footage i see with eoshd log looks 'different' from usual canon's compressed files
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJDU4LAu194
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bouncyball on November 02, 2016, 03:43:34 PM
@ noipego, myown

4.2.2. Yeah it's even better now :) thanx for correction.

bb
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on November 02, 2016, 07:14:43 PM
@noipego
I personnaly don't mind having huge files if they provide me with flexibility in post-production: RAW or LOG.
Canon's 4K MJPEG is heavy and a lot more difficult to grade than raw or Log.
MP4 H264 or H265 wouldn't be that much different to MJPEG to grade but at least much lighter.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on November 03, 2016, 06:09:41 AM
Interesting.  I am using a Komputerbay 1066x 256GB card and can record 1080p120 for over 6 minutes to CF Card on my 1DX Mark II (although Canon says only the CFast Card can do that).  Maybe the 5D Mark IV is just limited by the buffer?  IDK. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on November 03, 2016, 06:26:45 AM
There's another thread for the processor being hacked. It's about the same ML.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on November 03, 2016, 08:08:38 AM
Quote
Interesting.  I am using a Komputerbay 1066x 256GB card and can record 1080p120 for over 6 minutes to CF Card on my 1DX Mark II (although Canon says only the CFast Card can do that).  Maybe the 5D Mark IV is just limited by the buffer?  IDK.

Interessting  :) How we can readout the buffer size of the mark iv without ML? And whats the buffer size of your 1dx?
I'm also not sure if the mark iv is able to process 120 full hd frames per second because there is only a single processor.
And not sure either if the fps override is doing the 120 frames in 1080p.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Prokopios on November 28, 2016, 10:17:55 AM
 Could it not be possible to write RAW to an external writer, eg. Pix-E5, for the 5D IV?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: tron on November 30, 2016, 11:56:18 AM
Wishing for a 5DIV port in a couple of years (not trolling, If possible, if there is time, programmers, etc).

I am thinking of Dual ISO feature since there are still shadows issues believe it or not (I am on my 2nd 5D4 and the replacement body has equal color banding with the 1st when lifting shadows, see canonrumors forum for more info). My 5D3 with ML is better than 5D4 on this!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on November 30, 2016, 12:11:11 PM
Have some relevant samples to show the repeatability of the pattern, and whether it can be corrected with changing ISO?

A few ISO 100/1600 brackets should do the trick.

BTW, the latest Eeko (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.msg175656#msg175656) discovery is very useful for digic 6 ports: it's a simplified DryOS core that runs Thumb-2 instructions (probably similar architecture), all its memories are writable, it's available on all Digic 5 models, so it can serve as a playground for testing Thumb-2 stuff and understanding other low-level behaviors.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: tron on November 30, 2016, 01:57:47 PM
Alex if you were referring to my post I can try. I just know that iso 50 improves slightly the situation.

Actually I have made some experiments with higher iso (400) but I tried to not burn the highlights so DR was less (of course). The banding was evident. But I believe to try to simulate a higher iso in the ML way I just have to increase ISO (say to 1600) and keep shutter and aperture constant. Highlights will be be burnt but we will get some info for the shadows and higher iso.

Please correct me if I am wrong about that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: tron on December 01, 2016, 02:24:36 AM
Color banding disappears when increasing iso and keeping other parameters the same since there is less underexposure of the shadows. But since this causes a more correct exposure for the shadows (overexposing the rest of the picture) I guess it would happen like that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: garry23 on December 01, 2016, 07:29:46 AM
@tron

If you haven't read this, I thought you might find it of value : http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/iso/

Cheers

Garry
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: JADURCA on December 01, 2016, 06:16:28 PM
@tron

Read this too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding

Try to add a little bit of noise to the footage, render it then verify. Look for a rasonable low noise that is almost not detectable and mask the banding. Also, as @a1ex suggest, increase the ISO when filming solid natural colors like a blue sky or sunset, , so a little bit of noise is naturally added by the internal digital circuits and natural behavior of high ISOs.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: tron on December 02, 2016, 03:53:24 PM
I may be wrong of course but it does not look like posterization and certainly does not look like just chroma noise.

Also it is ALWAYS in parallel to the longest side no matter what I shoot. Since I do not shoot video I translate filming to shooting.

I would rather not increase ISO since it lowers Dynamic range. Experiments made with high iso and trying to recover shadows while keeping highlights from burning gave poor results. I have to keep exposure lower to save highlights (less DR) so shadows are even worse (and there was banding).

ISO 50 behaved better (although it is a digital iso, the way camera handles it saves us from quite a processing). EDIt: It betters 5D3 in shadow lifting too that's why I tried it with 5D4.

To tell the truth some shadows have to be kept as shadows to keep a photo natural so this can be controllable in some cases. But in really HDR demanding scenes (like an open window for example) the solution remains 5D3 + ML (or the classical bracketting and combining  >:( )
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on December 17, 2016, 01:35:45 PM
hey ML ppl...im debating with myself if i should get the 5d4. despite the lack of serious video features, the camera now has good DR and the possibility of raw recording in the future. also wifi, dpaf and 60fps at 1080p are nice to have too.
Since i haven't tested myself the 1080p image quality of the camera , i'd like to ask here what ppl -who got 5d4- think of that...both mk3&4 have AA filter but some say 5d4 gives more detail, not the soft h264 file of the 5d3.
cheers
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: MitchLally on December 17, 2016, 03:31:07 PM
@noipego its very similar looking to the 6D – more moire than the Mark III – in my eyes the image qual of h264 is more or less identical. Hardly worthy of an upgrade considering what is currently on offer with ML + 5D3. 4K image is noisy as hell.

Oh and if you're waiting for ML on 5D4 – its a $3500 gamble at this point as you can't predict 5D4 will run raw recording / ML in foreseeable future / ML at all.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Deny on December 18, 2016, 03:04:28 AM
@noipego despite what other people say I'm getting good results with the 5D4 4k (downscaling to 1080p), and DPAF with touch focus is to die for. WIFI IMHO is good for stills, if you want to monitor video you're better off with the DSLR Controller app for Android, which connects through the USB cable.

Regarding 1080p quality, I feel 4k downscaled to 1080p looks better (more detail) than 1080p on-camera, that's using the exact same settings and comparing them side by side after adjusting 4k->1080p. Not a huge deal, could be the AA filter, I don't know, but I'd rather use the best IQ I can get in my footage. The downside is, of course, the huge files @4k, don't even think about shooting 4k with the 5D4 without at least a 256GB sdcard or CF card, 95MB/s minimum (Sandisk Extreme Pro SDXC 95MB/s works fine) so the camera itself will format it using ExFat and therefore won't split takes into multiple 4GB files.

Regarding noise, I wouldn't say 4k is "noisy as hell" given proper lighting, but it's certainly noisier than 1080p. The fact that even then I've chosen to shoot 4k gives away my opinion about the compromises involved in that choice.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on December 18, 2016, 10:48:05 AM
thx for [email protected] im using dslr contr. with gimbal so i change camera settings on the fly. I've seen in couple reviews that wifi monitoring has similar delay in image display as the dslr contr....but i maybe wrong
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on January 03, 2017, 03:25:37 PM
Indeed Sandisk Extreme PRO 64GB and 128GB classe 10 95MB/S sdxc sdhc sd  uhs-I U3 work fine. Was able to shoot non stop 30 minutes of footage in 4K on the 128GB one.  Wouldn't say 4K is "noisy as hell" either. I've only noticed noise shooting at the end of the day with higher ISO. During the day with low ISO, I cannot notice any noise. Touch AF on the screen is amazing. You can also do touch AF on a windows 10 tablet using EOS utility. Connecting the 5D4 to the usb port of my tablet opens EOS utility. Select on the screen where you want it to focus, done. Magnification X5 and X10 works and is great, you can also start the recording touching the screen.Despite USB 3 potential limitations, the lag is not strong. Unless you're shooting sports events, I find it totally usable. Of course a 12 or 13 inch tablet is too big to be used as a field monitor if you're shooting on your own in the streets but useful on location or in a studio. The tablet I have has a USB C Thunderbolt 3 port as well meaning you can recharge your tablet with an external battery while you are using it. Soon, on Windows phones running Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processors (and others) one will be able to install any windows deskop app: http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm
This means you could most likely have EOS utility on a windows phone and use it as a field monitor with touch AF bringing a very powerful feature field monitors do not have. I'm not a Windows fan but it could be a pretty cool feature on a phone.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on January 04, 2017, 04:46:52 AM
You can also do touch AF on a windows 10 tablet using EOS utility.
Need to say that EOS utility on my Microsoft Surface 3(4Gb) is extremely laggy,
what makes it unusable as field monitor with touch AF.
And I'm very sceptic about it would work with acceptable performance on Snapdragon 835.
What tablet do you use in your experiments?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on January 04, 2017, 06:36:11 AM
I would say canon improved the 1080p h.264 a bit on the 5d4. There is more detail then the 5d3 in h.264. 5d3 + ml 1080 is still better as far as color. Obviously. I'm sure the 5D 4 will have its ML some day. Probably going to be a lot more complex but look at how stable the 5d3 is now compared to when the first beta was released.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on January 04, 2017, 11:12:15 AM
@mothaibaphoto I'm using an Acer switch alpha 12 (2.3-GHz Intel Core i5-6200U CPU, 8GB of RAM, SSD 256). Maybe the specs help? You're right the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processors may not be powerful enough for a fluid experience. Hard to say until anyone has tried it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on January 06, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
@Maximo Thanks. Core i5 has more power than Atom, for sure.
And just 300g heavier :)
By the way, EOS utility not the only software for this kind of job.
I will try qDslrDashboard, for example, next time.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on January 13, 2017, 10:13:11 AM
Are there any plans to write an ML app (ios, android, win) for remote control via wi-fi and regular tethering?

The current app Canon connect 2.0 is clumsy for 5D4.


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Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on January 13, 2017, 11:07:56 AM
There's an app for 6D for remote control. DSLR Controller. Never tried it tho.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on January 13, 2017, 11:09:17 AM
I think I know it. But I mean an own ML app (again open source).


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Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: wcmary on January 19, 2017, 05:06:59 PM
Hi there!
I searched, but perhaps wasn't wasn't searching for the right string...  Is there anyone actively working on ML for the 5d Mark IV?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on January 19, 2017, 05:22:24 PM
If a couple of evenings every few weeks counts as "actively", then yes.

However, currently none of the core developers has a DIGIC 6 camera and I didn't feel the urge to upgrade yet. Lots of interesting things are left to discover, or were discovered but not yet put to good use, on previous models.

So, for now, I'm just tinkering with the firmware in QEMU (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/branch/qemu). Not just on 5D4, but also on other D6 models, including PowerShots, and on secondary cores from DIGIC 5. In particular, the Eeko (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.msg175656#msg175656) CPU core allows anyone with a DIGIC 5 camera to experiment with Thumb code.

Basically, any commit you see regarding a DIGIC 6 or newer model is relevant, to some extent, for all the others, as they are quite similar inside.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: RenatoPhoto on January 19, 2017, 07:17:51 PM
5DIV does seem to be a beast!  But if someday the 5DS is cracked by A1lex then I would buy one as a true replacement for my aging 5D3.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: budafilms on January 20, 2017, 11:07:34 PM
I have a dream: a module to make Mpeg - or directly DNG, Jpg, into the cameras.
Why buy a 5d4 or Sony Alpha? :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on January 23, 2017, 11:46:32 AM
Maybe there is a way to combine the Dual Pixel situation into one entity getting 6K....?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on January 24, 2017, 09:45:35 PM
Google's recent research on image compression may (or may not) be available one day:
https://www.blog.google/products/google-plus/saving-you-bandwidth-through-machine-learning/
If so wondering if it could it bring compression to 4k mjpeg or 4k dng?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on January 24, 2017, 11:36:35 PM
Can't we buy a 5D IV for the developers. I mean there are thousands of ML users out there, even if we all just chip in 1$. We could get one for them. And hopefully they can crack it. As for many users like myself I dont see the need to upgrade without magic lantern RAW on it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on January 25, 2017, 11:43:40 PM
I am willing to chip in!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on January 25, 2017, 11:54:47 PM
Today everybody is trying to extend the dynamic range for film. You took the first step with the HDR setup. Canon copied you in Mk IV. Why not copy yourself again with bisecting the fps another round down to 15 fps!? Or/and try a different road and find a new solution extending the wonderful (!?) software inside Mk IV to new Wuthering heights by way of The Magic Lantern
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on January 26, 2017, 01:12:03 AM
Quote
I mean there are thousands of ML users out there, even if we all just chip in 1$. We could get one for them. And hopefully they can crack it.
@zerocool22 Yes we could...... and I would totally chip in but... But what the developers need most is more developers testers, and more time. Remember they are not getting paid for the COUNTLESS hours it takes to code, time not spent with family and friends, time spent at a desk.
I for one can barely grasp even the simplest forms of HTML. In time they will get to the IV and getting them one could speed it up. But DEVs gotta eat and sleep too. Imagine the complexity of the 5Divs new touch screen. And then you will have to get a few more 5Divs for others to test since, I doubt there are many that are willing to risk there brand new IV on a port. Give it time and test where and when you can. I'm thinking of attempting to try the emulator. That looks fun and you never know if you might stumble on something.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: tomekk on January 26, 2017, 06:26:11 PM
I'd chip in every month if that would help development keep going :).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on January 28, 2017, 03:44:41 PM
I was thinking the same before but when 5D4 doesn't have 5 axis stabilisation then I believe it's a bit to much to ask for. I'm not a developer so I can't really say, but my indication is that the cam is to close to 5D3 for al the work. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jrumans on January 29, 2017, 10:01:48 PM
I was thinking the same before but when 5D4 doesn't have 5 axis stabilisation then I believe it's a bit to much to ask for. I'm not a developer so I can't really say, but my indication is that the cam is to close to 5D3 for al the work. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I love my 5d IV, it is a really solid camera. I haven't touched my 5d3 in quite awhile, but use it as a backup when necessary, or for RAW video. Not sure why you would think that a camera without 5 axis stabilization isn't worthy of a ML port  ???

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on January 30, 2017, 01:27:14 AM
I love my 5d IV, it is a really solid camera. I haven't touched my 5d3 in quite awhile, but use it as a backup when necessary, or for RAW video. Not sure why you would think that a camera without 5 axis stabilization isn't worthy of a ML port  ???
Not worthy, but in what purpose? Is it 4K? Will the cam even handle 4K RAW video, the lack of faster cards..? The option of stabilization is one tool that would wow me. Of course not everyone..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on January 30, 2017, 02:05:53 PM
Well yeah I could care less about inbody stabilization. I already got a lot of grip to do that for me.

But I would love:
- Increase resolution
- Increase details
- Increase dynamic range
- Increase low light capabilities
- Increase slow motion capabilities
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on January 30, 2017, 02:12:07 PM
Well there you go!  You already have it with 5D4 ;)


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Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Rideck on January 30, 2017, 05:13:04 PM
Hi there, I'am new to the Forum and I love the Idea from zerocool22! I would love to see Magic Lantern coming for the Mk IV and of course I would give some money as well.
 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: macane on January 31, 2017, 09:22:34 AM
Raw 4K on 5D4-ML might require incredible faster media to record. So, as a 5D4 shooter, I would say a camera hack with no crop factor and non stupid MJPEG should be ideal for me. CHEERS!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on February 06, 2017, 11:24:48 AM
I do not think it is possible to record 4K (or 6K...) RAW on the media setup provided by Canon inside Mk IV but with an Atomos or similar EXTERNAL recorder it should be manageable....
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Maximo on February 06, 2017, 01:52:19 PM
4k external recording would have to be hacked by magic lantern team if possible, for now 2K external recording only. Cinema DNG or other RAW compression formats may allow 4K internal recording?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: c4v3man on February 11, 2017, 08:36:00 PM
Looking at the mjpg 4k recording and associated frame grabs, I'm assuming if Magic Lantern is ever ported to this camera, that there's a decent chance of 4k silent photos without any sort of shutter speed limitations? That would be handy for timelapses, although the 1.74x crop certainly limits it's use.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bgusto on February 12, 2017, 06:12:10 AM
Hi - I recently purchased two Mark IVs. I was excited to shoot 4k, but I'm wondering if I should sell them and downgrade to Mark IIIs so I can use Magic Lantern. Thoughts on ML vs Canon's 4k? (Besides the crop...)

Any progress update on ML for 5d Mark IV?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on February 13, 2017, 12:03:14 AM
Hi - I recently purchased two Mark IVs. I was excited to shoot 4k, but I'm wondering if I should sell them and downgrade to Mark IIIs so I can use Magic Lantern. Thoughts on ML vs Canon's 4k? (Besides the crop...)

Any progress update on ML for 5d Mark IV?

Thanks.
Do you need 4K? If so, the easy of use in shooting what the camera is made to do is not what ML is. ML in for me an option to go further for that kind of options like post- and color grading. Waiting for ML for the IV is not gona happen in near (years? or never will) future..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: clement2 on February 13, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
if you really need professional dslr for 4k video shooting, canon is totally out of the field. it's 4k video looks like 1080p quality. and it's follow the route as predecessor 5d3 when it shot 1080p, the quality looks like 720p in sony.

rather than waiting for ML to support 5d4, it is better to get the sony one as it has already got overexposure zebra, focus peaking, sharper nicer video and much more.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Ilia3101 on February 13, 2017, 02:46:37 PM
@clement2 That's completely wrong, please show me where 5D IV 4k looks like 1080p, I don't think that's true at all. Sony video, yes, its technically better, dynamic range whatever.... but 5D mkIV has far better colour and doesn't have the ugly sony yellow highlights(possibly fixable with difficult to grade slog). Only reason to choose a sony over 5D IV is crop(or price, but then you'd obviously go with a 5D3).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bgusto on February 14, 2017, 02:58:54 AM
Do you need 4K? If so, the easy of use in shooting what the camera is made to do is not what ML is. ML in for me an option to go further for that kind of options like post- and color grading. Waiting for ML for the IV is not gona happen in near (years? or never will) future..

The most important things to me are dynamic range and color grading. I also like the 2:35:1 crop on ML. I just want great picture quality.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on February 14, 2017, 11:25:42 PM
The most important things to me are dynamic range and color grading. I also like the 2:35:1 crop on ML. I just want great picture quality.
OT. You get that on both models. The 5D4 has more resolution, but color grading is as you know a better choice going with a 5D3. But expose right, get the colors you like (ambient light or other) and nobody cares if RAW or not. ML is more post processing, do you like that, then 5D3 maybe is the choice..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on February 14, 2017, 11:27:22 PM
I hope ML will manage to hack it sooner than 5D3.


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Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Krrish Venkat on February 15, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
Hi,
       New to this forum. Willing to buy mark iv only bcoz of ML. Plz Plz Plz ML shed some light that you are developing ML for mark IV otherwise, it is waste of time and money to buy mark iv and I'll stick with mark iii with ML.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on February 16, 2017, 12:43:34 PM
There is no ML for 5D4 and ML project does not know about schedules, delivery dates.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bkling on February 18, 2017, 03:46:37 PM
Got to wait..it is not going to be fast I think to port ML onto 5D4. Either way, I already bought it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bwinter88 on February 19, 2017, 10:55:40 PM
For those of you unsure about trying the 5D mk3 in the meantime...

I used to be obsessive about resolution and pixels...always wanting to know the next best piece of kit out there with the highest resolution. Then I entered a film festival and watched, on a 20 foot screen, 1st place go to a piece shot on miniDV, beating out RED cameras.

Obviously one size does not fit all but frankly the color depth and quality of the RAW footage delivered by ML on the 5dmk3 is nothing short of stunning. I have been shooting on it for large jobs for more than a few years now. A lot of my jobs involve shooting the motion portion of a photographic campaign and having RAW sequences allows me to match the results of the photographer and retoucher. It rivals even Alexa footage and scales up to 4K beautifully. If you are on the fence, just go for it and try it. 5Dmk3 bodies are too cheap now not to at least give it a go. Just my 2c.

Also, I am not so confident that a useful version of ML for the mk4 will be released anytime soon, if ever. The reason being that existing versions of ML simply hijack the existing readout of the sensor and dump raw data. If 4K without the 1.74x is to be achieved, ML will have to go farther than previous developments have and figure out a completely new way of reading 4K off the sensor full-frame. Someone with more intimate knowledge of the process may be able to correct me.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: blackcannonfilms on February 20, 2017, 02:24:51 PM
if you really need professional dslr for 4k video shooting, canon is totally out of the field. it's 4k video looks like 1080p quality. and it's follow the route as predecessor 5d3 when it shot 1080p, the quality looks like 720p in sony.

rather than waiting for ML to support 5d4, it is better to get the sony one as it has already got overexposure zebra, focus peaking, sharper nicer video and much more.

I mean no disrespect but anyone considering a 5D4 over a Sony should disregard Clement2's comment as his/her statement is in many ways misleading and incorrect. For some reason Sony shooters have an insecurity that pushes them to lurk and pop into Canon discussions so they can boast about how they jumped ship and why we should too -but truth be told there is no one camera that is better than the other, they all have flaws and it really comes down to preference. A camera is only a tool and those who understand the limitations of their tools will know how to work with them to get the most out of it.

I have been shooting on both the A7sii and FS5 for just over a year now. I also picked up the 5D4 to replace my 5D3 when it came out, so speaking from personal experience I can confidently say the 5D4 is a huge improvement on its predecessor and it has many advantages over the Sony cameras many people love. The 4k mjpeg codec is heavy but I have been very pleased with the range it gives in post both for colour and for cropping/resizing as the image is consistently clean and beautiful. It goes without saying, it does not have the perks of raw recording and I definitely miss the other ML functions. Despite that, the 5D4 is tack sharp in 1080p 24/30/60 and 4K modes, and yes the 720 is slightly softer (as I expected). The camera also records 120fps in 720p with a surprisingly high bit rate (150mbps if memory serves me right) that hardly shows any artefacts (if any) and prevents the image from from falling apart in post. Looking at images from the two cameras side by side leads me to believe that the Sony is also recording 120fps at 720p but upscaling it internally to give the impression that it's reaching higher specs than it's competitors. It's also worth noting that the Sony's mentioned here both shoot UHD 4k and not true 4k, which means they're shooting 3840x2160 instead of 496x2160 like the Canon. Now, the biggest downfall to Canon's flagship DSLR is that the 4k recording suffers heavily from rolling shutter (as does the A7sii) and the 5D switches to a 1.74x crop mode to do it, which for many shooters is a disappointment because we've been spoiled by the shallow dof of full frame video for the last few years. However, that being said 1.74x crop is very close to Super 35 and I personally haven't found this to be a negative but a positive because a good dp/videographer will know which lenses to use to achieve the desired results and I actually appreciate gaining that extra reach out of all of my lenses. The only other downfall of the 5D4 is that the only way to achieve an s-log look is with Eoshd's reverse engineered c-log picture profile which I haven't really put through all it's paces but on first glance looks very promising. Apart from those few minor weaknesses, the 5D4 doesn't look like it at first but it is a hell of a camera and a welcomed upgrade to anyone who didn't jump on the Sony bandwagon.

A side note is that for those who prefer an easier workflow, the 5D4 blows the Sony's out of the water from the on set accessories right through post production. To elaborate on that, most Sony lens options are disappointing and have electronic zooms or focus rings which make follow focus rings unusable as the rings change their marks depending on how fast or slowly you move them. So most people will pick up a Metabones or Fotodiox adapter to fit EF or other third party lenses which means you lose AF functionality and depending on the lens, 1 out of 20 times the body doesn't read the lens properly so you need to power down, remove the lens, power back up and this becomes very annoying when you're on a high stress shoot (not to mention the tiny A7sii batteries which barely last around 30-40mins at a time so you need to bring a bunch or have a charging station handy). Also for those of you who haven't yet had the opportunity to shoot on a Sony, every time you format a the card, the file system re-starts the next shot at 0001.mp4, 0002.mp4 all over again, which means you need to batch rename your clips before editing or you'll have a hell of a time reconnecting a project in post if you move it from drive to drive because you run the risk of having duplicate file names in the same bin. The only way the Sony sensors retain their highlights (which I have to say, they do very, very, very well!) is by shooting in s-log 3 which means the base iso jumps up to 1600 and 3200 on the A7sii and the fs5 respectively. This higher iso necessitates the use of ND filters both indoors and outdoors depending on your lighting scenario and ND filters from brand to brand have different hues than the internal variable ND in the FS5 so when you get to the colouring stage of post production, not only is there already a big learning curve for slog3 colouring but if you mix cameras or use ND filters on your lenses, the blacks can vary in hue making colouring even more difficult. Meanwhile the Canon sensor retains all iso options and is clean for video well up until 6400 which I don't think I've ever really shot past on a Sony and been happy with the results, so for low light performance the Canon's are on par (for my needs, at least). The 5D4 also outputs natural colours and skin tones which many users will find familiar and easy to correction/grade, keeping the post prod workflow simple.

All this to say, I'm excited and eager to see if ML ever comes to the 5D4, the team here has done a wonderful job and the feature I miss the most is the magic zoom! Please guys, give us some updates on a nightly!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Pedr on February 22, 2017, 10:47:36 AM
Although I agree with much of  @blackcannonfilms, I have also used both the 5D4 and the Sony A7R2 and have to say, I think the video from the Sony is vastly superior, as are it's video related features. There is much less of a difference in the quality of the stills (though if you are shooting landscapes / outdoors or printing huge you will definitely notice it). However, the sony is a horrible camera in many ways. Its menus are a labyrinth, its buttons inferior to Canon. Using an adapter is often problematic and certainly doesn't increase your feeling of confidence when using the lens. Also, and possibly most importantly, the Sony is a nightmare for dust on the sensor - I rarely had issues with the Canon or my 5D Mk3 before it, but all I have to do is change lenses on the Sony and (if I am outside or in a dusty environment) I can pretty much guarantee I'll have new dust on the sensor. If you shoot a lot outside, this (along with the Sony's much less robust construction and lack of weather sealing) is a deal breaker. Much better quality video spattered with dust spots is not much better quality video. Or worse yet, no video at all is not better quality if as your adapter has failed (as happened to me twice with two different adapters).

The truth is that neither of these cameras are great for shooting video. For stills, I think I would choose the Canon. If I was shooting video entirely in clean studio environment I would choose the Sony. Otherwise I would buy a dedicated video camera. I think the Canon is just a bit of a turkey in this regard and only slightly disappointing in terms of stills (and in six months it will already be showing its age). Maybe the ML guys will be able to work a miracle (again), but I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on March 22, 2017, 10:10:08 AM
http://www.canonrumors.com/c-log-coming-to-eos-5d-mark-iv-confirmed-cr3/
who needs raw now  :P
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on March 22, 2017, 01:44:32 PM
"There has been another suggestion that Canon has been actively looking at ways to “improve” the 4K video capture crop on the EOS 5D Mark IV"
That would be nice too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: andy kh on March 22, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
Mjpeg or h264 wil never b as good as raw no matter it gets c-log or whatever log
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on March 22, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
"We’re now asking sources if the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II will see a similar firmware update..." - WTF???
Is that even possible that 5D outperforms 1Dx in video?
If that really happens, I promise you, Canon, I will break that sacred oath myself :)
And yes, in-camera Log is good, but not substitute for raw.
Finally, i was waiting for something like that - Canon need to improve it's DSLR video to make GH5 less attractive.
It looks like they have a big room for that - 4K thru HDMI, Log...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on March 23, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
Is that even possible that 5D outperforms 1Dx in video?

oh don't worry mk3 outperforms both :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: SiSS on March 28, 2017, 08:15:02 PM
Crop Factor rumors continue from the favorite rumorsite (http://www.canonrumors.com/crop-factor-change-for-4k-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-included-in-coming-update-more/)

CROP FACTOR CHANGE FOR 4K ON CANON EOS 5D MARK IV INCLUDED IN COMING UPDATE & MORE

We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:

All video output will still be 8-bit.
Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.
Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.

Both modes are accurately down-sampled to their final resolutions.
Existing frame rates will remain the same.
The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor.

There will also be new full-sensor 3K modes added including 60fps and HDR 24fps.
Both will use a line-alternating sampling method, so quality will be inferior to the improved 4K format (but better than the existing FullHD 1080p format.)
It is unclear whether the file resolution in the final firmware will be the full 3360 x 1890 format or down-sampled to 3072 x 1728.

FullHD 1080p will also use this 3K full-sensor mode with down-sampling for a noticeable improvement in perceived resolution.
FullHD 1080p will also receive a modest frame rate boost to 72/75fps.

The EOS 5D Mark IV will gain the XF-AFC file format at 120Mbps (4:2:0) and 200Mbps (4:2:2). Both formats should require low enough data rates to accommodate UHS-I U3 type SD Cards.

Reports relating to a possible service job for the 5D Mark IV are the result of the heat sinks on current units not performing well in some environments when used with the newer firmware. This is because of the increased processing load from the enlarged video sampling area. Newer units will ship with an improved heat sink while existing 5D Mark IV units can be retrofitted. Pricing is unconfirmed for that servicing.
The newer firmware will still work in non-serviced cameras, but this may result in premature temperature warnings.

More to come… (http://www.canonrumors.com/crop-factor-change-for-4k-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-included-in-coming-update-more/)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: user0597 on March 29, 2017, 09:42:14 AM
It's actually something you'd want. Doesn't sound like Canon of recent.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: limey on March 31, 2017, 01:41:15 PM

I have been shooting on both the A7sii and FS5 for just over a year now. I also picked up the 5D4 to replace my 5D3 when it came out, so speaking from personal experience I can confidently say the 5D4 is a huge improvement on its predecessor and it has many advantages over the Sony cameras many people love. The 4k mjpeg codec is heavy but I have been very pleased with the range it gives in post both for colour and for cropping/resizing as the image is consistently clean and beautiful. It goes without saying, it does not have the perks of raw recording and I definitely miss the other ML functions. Despite that, the 5D4 is tack sharp in 1080p 24/30/60 and 4K modes, and yes the 720 is slightly softer (as I expected). The camera also records 120fps in 720p with a surprisingly high bit rate (150mbps if memory serves me right) that hardly shows any artefacts (if any) and prevents the image from from falling apart in post. Looking at images from the two cameras side by side leads me to believe that the Sony is also recording 120fps at 720p but upscaling it internally to give the impression that it's reaching higher specs than it's competitors. It's also worth noting that the Sony's mentioned here both shoot UHD 4k and not true 4k, which means they're shooting 3840x2160 instead of 496x2160 like the Canon. Now, the biggest downfall to Canon's flagship DSLR is that the 4k recording suffers heavily from rolling shutter (as does the A7sii) and the 5D switches to a 1.74x crop mode to do it, which for many shooters is a disappointment because we've been spoiled by the shallow dof of full frame video for the last few years. However, that being said 1.74x crop is very close to Super 35 and I personally haven't found this to be a negative but a positive because a good dp/videographer will know which lenses to use to achieve the desired results and I actually appreciate gaining that extra reach out of all of my lenses. The only other downfall of the 5D4 is that the only way to achieve an s-log look is with Eoshd's reverse engineered c-log picture profile which I haven't really put through all it's paces but on first glance looks very promising. Apart from those few minor weaknesses, the 5D4 doesn't look like it at first but it is a hell of a camera and a welcomed upgrade to anyone who didn't jump on the Sony bandwagon.

A side note is that for those who prefer an easier workflow, the 5D4 blows the Sony's out of the water from the on set accessories right through post production. To elaborate on that, most Sony lens options are disappointing and have electronic zooms or focus rings which make follow focus rings unusable as the rings change their marks depending on how fast or slowly you move them. So most people will pick up a Metabones or Fotodiox adapter to fit EF or other third party lenses which means you lose AF functionality and depending on the lens, 1 out of 20 times the body doesn't read the lens properly so you need to power down, remove the lens, power back up and this becomes very annoying when you're on a high stress shoot (not to mention the tiny A7sii batteries which barely last around 30-40mins at a time so you need to bring a bunch or have a charging station handy). Also for those of you who haven't yet had the opportunity to shoot on a Sony, every time you format a the card, the file system re-starts the next shot at 0001.mp4, 0002.mp4 all over again, which means you need to batch rename your clips before editing or you'll have a hell of a time reconnecting a project in post if you move it from drive to drive because you run the risk of having duplicate file names in the same bin. The only way the Sony sensors retain their highlights (which I have to say, they do very, very, very well!) is by shooting in s-log 3 which means the base iso jumps up to 1600 and 3200 on the A7sii and the fs5 respectively. This higher iso necessitates the use of ND filters both indoors and outdoors depending on your lighting scenario and ND filters from brand to brand have different hues than the internal variable ND in the FS5 so when you get to the colouring stage of post production, not only is there already a big learning curve for slog3 colouring but if you mix cameras or use ND filters on your lenses, the blacks can vary in hue making colouring even more difficult. Meanwhile the Canon sensor retains all iso options and is clean for video well up until 6400 which I don't think I've ever really shot past on a Sony and been happy with the results, so for low light performance the Canon's are on par (for my needs, at least). The 5D4 also outputs natural colours and skin tones which many users will find familiar and easy to correction/grade, keeping the post prod workflow simple.

All this to say, I'm excited and eager to see if ML ever comes to the 5D4, the team here has done a wonderful job and the feature I miss the most is the magic zoom! Please guys, give us some updates on a nightly!


This sums up my feelings exactly regarding both the Sony a7r2 and a7sii vs now my extensive experience with the 5d4.

The canon is absolutely tack sharp and the tracking is game changing for me. I shot a recent project at 1080p 60fps and was blown away.

My only gripe is the codec for post processing it's just too large for premiere and my Mac Pro chokes on it. However, it's actually pretty decent. Again sharpness is impressive.

The dynamic range, noise levels, and sharpness vs the 5d3 are so much better. From a stills standpoint it's a worthy upgrade.

Eager to see what the new firmware does for the 5d4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: JADURCA on April 20, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
Canon Announces Clog for Mark IV!

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/canon-log
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 20, 2017, 04:11:37 PM
100$ ... And I have to send my camera out!!! No resolution updates ..... Seriously canon....
Not only did a simple hoax ruin there announcement but as a 5div owner I have to pay for this? I hope all new 5Divs cost 100 bucks more cuz that is just not cool.

No thanks I'll just use RAW from ML
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on April 20, 2017, 04:52:43 PM
I prefer to donate 100$ for a Mark IV for A1ex :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on April 20, 2017, 04:54:02 PM
Canon Announces Clog for Mark IV!

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/canon-log
And no wifi GUI improvements :/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 20, 2017, 05:13:16 PM
100$ not including shipping I assume.
I am just so disappointed. If this was more then just a flat profile upgrade then it would be worth it but seriously.... I can't justify that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on April 20, 2017, 05:31:02 PM
"be aware that canon log requires manual exposure operation" :o
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 20, 2017, 08:53:41 PM
Maybe I will pay for the upgrade so that I can do a side by side:
5diii 1920x1080 ML 14 bit lossless vs 5div cine style vs 5div c - log
And then most likely come to the conclusion that the upgrade was pointless.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: eduperez on April 20, 2017, 11:30:11 PM
Canon Announces Clog for Mark IV!

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/canon-log


Expect the hordes asking to be done (for free, obviously) using ML...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 21, 2017, 05:20:38 AM
I'd pay for ML not .... C- Log.
All I have to say is thank you ML because I would have abandoned Canon for video a long time ago.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on April 21, 2017, 04:33:03 PM
Quote
Maybe I will pay for the upgrade so that I can do a side by side:
5diii 1920x1080 ML 14 bit lossless vs 5div cine style vs 5div c - log
And then most likely come to the conclusion that the upgrade was pointless.

Did you allready try the "C-Log" from EOSHD?

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/09/now-available-eoshd-picture-profiles-brings-c-log-canon-dslrs-including-1d-x-mark-ii-5d-mark-iv/

It's way cheaper :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 21, 2017, 08:07:47 PM
Hahahaha @myown! I'll have to try that!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mattcraigthomas on April 21, 2017, 10:04:18 PM
This is also worth a look at, if, like me, you're not especially keen on Canon's...implementation.

After researching, I concluded that James Miller's profile is probably better, and comes with LUTs I prefer the look of, although I have to admit I've yet to actually use it.

DELUTS Canon DSLR LOG & LOOKS
https://sellfy.com/p/ul1t/

Using the Atomos promo link will make it a little cheaper:
https://sellfy.com/p/oTvW/-at0mo5d31ut5/?utm_source=atomos.com
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: reddeercity on April 22, 2017, 04:18:30 AM
It more then you think , it just not a lut/picture style it actually a 10bit log curve then compressed to 8bit(which is in all eos camera ) before pic.style is applied , read this post Reverse Engineering Picture Styles  (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.msg172770#msg172770)   .
The reason you need to send it in is they have to calibrate the sensor for log (because not all sensor product the same DR, I would think there same amplifies registers to adjust to max the D.R.) , 
You have you use Min.400 ISO and up and in manual mode only plus what really cool is the evf lut preset to view log in rec709 . Basically it's the old 1dc with a  higher crop factor .
Watch the video in the link it explains everything , if I had a 5d4 I wouldn't hesitate for a second to update to log from canon.
and Oh yea you can even get uncompressed log 1080p from the HDMI , thumbs up 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 22, 2017, 05:47:28 AM
I agree, the more I read, I learn its not just a look or picture style that is being applied. There is more involved.
And no doubt it will be solid and reliable which all my Canon bodies have been. I will say that Canon cameras are the most reliable pro cams that I have ever used. Because of this forum, I now know how much of a challenge that is.
And yes you could buy another battery powered device to rec the uncompressed feed.... or just use ML on a 5diii 2012 camera and rec uncompressed everything straight to the card in 1920 x 1080. 
Im going to go ahead and speculate that 5Diii RAW uncompressed or 14 bit lossless is still the winner here as far as color and grading.

Wow ... I guess that rumor really got my hopes up ha ha
Dont get me wrong I absolutely love it as a still camera. Best body I have ever used for Photo especially for weddings. But when it comes to video I would trade touch screen wifi gps video AF dual pixel yadda yadda for better crop 4k or more pro codec hands down.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: [email protected] on May 10, 2017, 07:50:35 PM
Without CFast I feel it's pretty doomed for higher resolution in Raw. Of course they don't like not to benefit from ML super work...

I am quite happy Canon did not switch to CFast cards.  I use teh Samsung Extreme Pro 95 Mbs 256GB carsds in my Canon 5D Mark IV but the also fit in my Sony FDR-AX100 and my laptop Dell 5510 has a very fast SD card reader builtin.  So I love not having to carry an external card reader.  The Mjpeg format already has very low compression if any so I see no reason to shoot to RAW creating an even larger file than it creates now.  The image quality is already as perfect as I have ever seen coming unaltered from the camera.  for most work there is no need to color grade if you used good glass an lighting in the first place. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: [email protected] on May 10, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
Maybe I will pay for the upgrade so that I can do a side by side:
5diii 1920x1080 ML 14 bit lossless vs 5div cine style vs 5div c - log
And then most likely come to the conclusion that the upgrade was pointless.

I have both cameras and the Canon 5D Mark IV is light years better than the Mark III.  Things like WIFI, GPS, Timecode, focus following while in Live View, Touch screen display which can be used to pull focus.  Being able to remotely pull focus from my touchscreen laptop in 4K while recording in true 4K.  Just absolutely amazing features.  The upgrade is only pointless if you can't figure out a way to use all these new features.  For me just having Timecode has made syncing audio to my Zoom F4 without the need for Red giants Plural eyes has saved me time and money.

Plus a a photo camera the 5D IV is an absolute beast.  It is so fast and accurate.  Let me stop now before people start thinking I work for Canon.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on May 11, 2017, 06:12:45 AM
 @[email protected]
You have misunderstood me. I was not saying upgrading to 5Div, I was saying upgrading the 5Div to c-log.
I agree, there are a lot of improvements to the 5d iv especially for photo. I know, I own both Cameras and I know how to use them. But I tell you what, I would sacrifice the dual pixel and wifi gps functions for a professional 10bit codec. For some rediculous reason canon is promoting post color grading with c-log on 8bit codecs. I'm sorry this is just silly at this point. And the rolling shutter of the 4k plus the crop is really not good.
What they should have done was:
1 Super 35mm 1.3x crop 4k 10bit  422
2 And full frame 1920 10bit 422 (not h.264 420 8bit)
3 less rolling shutter.
Personally I would trade video autofocus, wifi, touchscreen and GPS for the features mentioned above.
I actually emailed Canon nicely mentioning my concerns and they told me I should take a look at the 11,000 c300 ii
I didn't​ tell them this but I said to myself, no thanks I'll just use 5diii with ML RAW if I want to color grade.
Im not saying the 5Div is bad. All I am saying is, personality​ it let me down. This is not the same 5D that spearheaded the DSLR video revolution.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mothaibaphoto on May 11, 2017, 07:56:45 AM
I actually emailed Canon nicely mentioning my concerns and they told me I should take a look at the 11,000 c300 ii
ROFL  :D
There is also some compromise for 5,000: 1Dx MKII - 1.3x crop 4k 60 FPS, less rolling shutter.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: [email protected] on May 11, 2017, 11:15:31 PM
@[email protected]
You have misunderstood me. I was not saying upgrading to 5Div, I was saying upgrading the 5Div to c-log.
I agree, there are a lot of improvements to the 5d iv especially for photo. I know, I own both Cameras and I know how to use them. But I tell you what, I would sacrifice the dual pixel and wifi gps functions for a professional 10bit codec. For some rediculous reason canon is promoting post color grading with c-log on 8bit codecs. I'm sorry this is just silly at this point. And the rolling shutter of the 4k plus the crop is really not good.
What they should have done was:
1 Super 35mm 1.3x crop 4k 10bit  422
2 And full frame 1920 10bit 422 (not h.264 420 8bit)
3 less rolling shutter.
Personally I would trade video autofocus, wifi, touchscreen and GPS for the features mentioned above.
I actually emailed Canon nicely mentioning my concerns and they told me I should take a look at the 11,000 c300 ii
I didn't​ tell them this but I said to myself, no thanks I'll just use 5diii with ML RAW if I want to color grade.
Im not saying the 5Div is bad. All I am saying is, personality​ it let me down. This is not the same 5D that spearheaded the DSLR video revolution.

I agree with you on 2 and 3.  2 doesn't really affect me much because I always shoot at 4K and if required downsize to 1920 which I believe still give me 422 color sampling.   I have not worked with 10bit video so I don'tr know what I am missing.  I also don't color grade most of my work so also don't have a need for C-log.  The only time I would need something like that is if am shooting with both my Sony FDR-AX100 and Canon 5D4 and need to match colors, which at this point I also seldom do.  Isn't the Sensor in the Canon 5D4 already much bigger than a Super 35 sensor since it has to accommodate 30MP photography? 
Well in any case I hear you and everyone has their own thoughts, but for me.  I am quite ecstatic with the camera.  Upgrading from a Canon 5D Mark II was a huge step up and I will use it for the next 5 - 7 years.  I just don't get that many requests for people actually hiring me to shoot in 4K.  My trick is shooting in 4K and delivering a 1080P product which looks great.  Which I can easily do with this camera.  For my personal stuff (not getting paid for) the 4k stuff is great for friends and family events. 
When I look back at it all I think Canon was the first to bring video to a DSLR and if I remember many photographers thought it was a stupid idea.  But, now it is the norm.  But, If I where to do paid 4K work on a regular basis I would absolutely just go get a Black Magic mini URSA.  The downside is I just couldn't imaging traveling Internationally with it which is why I purchased the 5D4.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dfort on May 15, 2017, 06:41:33 AM
Not to get too far off topic but looking at the Netflix Production and Post-Production Requirements v2.1 (https://backlothelp.netflix.com/hc/en-us/articles/217237077-Production-and-Post-Production-Requirements-v2-1) it looks like the 5D Mark IV can only be used as a "Secondary Camera" because it doesn't meet their specifications:
Some other 4K cameras that don't meet these specifications include the somewhat affordable Sony FS-5, JVC GY-LS300 and the not so affordable Arri Alexa. That's right, unless you can get a hold of an Arri 65 that has "true" 4K (greater than 4096 x 2160) sensor.

The most affordable camera that would fit the specifications without requiring an external recorder seems to be the new Panasonic GH5. Like the 5D Mark IV, that camera also uses a less than edit friendly codec. Some people may look down on the micro four thirds sensor but considering the crop factor when the 5D Mark IV shoots 4K (1.7x vs. 2.0x mft) there isn't much of a difference as far as depth of field goes.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, just reporting what I found out. I'm prepping for a documentary and would like to get a better chance at being accepted at the various streaming services but it looks like these Internet broadcast standards are evolving much faster than I ever expected.

And hold on, I was at NAB and this is what is coming in time for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics from NHK:

SUPER HI-VISION (8K) 22.2 multichannel sound system (http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/nab2017/NHK_8kTheaterA.pdf)

There were a few 8K cameras on display though I didn't see the one from Canon that they showed at Photokina 2016 (https://www.cinema5d.com/look-canons-crazy-8k-camera-prototype/).


Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on May 18, 2017, 01:47:59 AM
I took a look at the 1.0.4 firmware and managed to find a few stubs. Not much, but it's a start.

https://bitbucket.org/chris_miller/ml-fork/commits/035db3446e9092bc5b3be89af9d4b378690ad7cc
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on May 18, 2017, 10:53:27 AM
nice, thx for looking into this Chris!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on June 20, 2017, 08:04:29 PM
So I was doing some thinking. I apologize if this was covered. If or when the ML makes its way to the 5D IV, I was wondering what would the RAW Video/live view capabilities would even be. 4K would be tricky in RAW since I read the CF card slot are still limited. Not sure if this also applies to the SD card slot.

I, personally would be more interested in the full frame capabilities in [email protected] 24fps

Now we know the resolution of the 5DIII Sensor is 5760 / 3x3 Pixel bin brings us to 1920 right? (maybe I am wrong)
With that same math the 5Div 6720 / 3x3 bin would be 2240. This makes me much more excited if this is possible. With compression, in theory, this should rec just fine to the CF card @ 24fps

However, I read (not sure true) the 5D iv does an 4x4 binning during full frame live view. This would be most disappointing bringing our numbers down to 1680 which sadly sounds like a canon move.
On the flip side, since live view understanding seems to be improving quite nicely thanks to ML maybe... just maybe (wishes don't do dishes) ML can force the 3x3 bin and the 5D IV will have a decent 2k RAW 24fps mode.
Canon, no doubt "could" make this happen no problem especially with the new Canon Cinema RAW LITE on there C200.
IMO canon is super dumb for not having done something like RAW 1920 mode on the Mark IV. However I think ML will most likely be able to take the glory here once again. So we can thank Canon for dropping the innovation ball I guess. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Ilia3101 on June 20, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
As far as I'm aware (simple) 4x4 binning would result in monochrome video :D, so whoever said that is wrong - don't worry, it has 3x3 binning... unless of course they went full Canon and made it 5x5, which is extremely unlikely and would look terrible
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on June 20, 2017, 09:03:59 PM
As far as I'm aware (simple) 4x4 binning would result in monochrome video :D, so whoever said that is wrong - don't worry, it has 3x3 binning... unless of course they went full Canon and made it 5x5, which is extremely unlikely and would look terrible
hahaha 5x5!!!!
4x4 Binning = Monochrome, never new or fully understood the binning process.
3x3 would be a dream on 5d IV. True 2K WHHAAAAA!
4k rolling shutter is quite bad on mark IV so I could care less about that in RAW.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: cheshirecat on July 17, 2017, 08:16:38 PM
My setup;
I have a working ML Development environment in Ubuntu on a VirtualBox.
I have ARM Console working.

From ARM Console I have outputted a disassembly of ROM1.BIN from a 5d4
I did that by following the instructions at
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/GPL_Tools/ARM_console
Quote
Prepare a working directory where you will put the input files. You will need:
    Some dumps, with the .bin extension. Include the load address in the dump name.
    Some databases, in IDC or Stubs (*.S) format. Try to give them names similar to the dumps, to help the autodetection.

Question: What should I use as the load address ?
Question: I presume that there is currently no IDC I could use for this dump ?
Question: I presume that there is currently no Stub I could use for this dump, since the stubs have not yet been found ?

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on July 17, 2017, 09:51:51 PM
First of all, 5D4 has mostly Thumb code, and ARM-console won't help with that (it's ancient stuff I wrote before getting an IDA license, ARM only). Look on CHDK forum for suggestions (from there, I've tried capdis, but only for double-checking small snippets of code where I didn't trust the output from IDA).

Many stubs are easily identified from strings; chris_overseas found some (look up his repo). Running the firmware in QEMU will save an IDC with what functions got called during that session. Currently the emulation works for the bootloader (which is ARM code) and it also runs a tiny part of the main firmware.

Memory layout is similar to other D6 models (look up my notes on e.g. 7D2 or 80D threads). Or just read it from QEMU logs.

First puzzle to solve: how to jump to main firmware from autoexec.bin? Note the 5D4 has two cores, and I believe we have to do something about it somehow.

Next step (which is easy, will probably work in QEMU, but not on the real hardware) would be to adapt the 7D2/80D startup code (which... works in QEMU, but not on the real hardware).

Third step would be making the startup code work on the real hardware (likely as easy as copying a routine from CHDK, discussed on 80D thread). Since I don't have a D6 model yet, I didn't feel any rush to try it.

After that, porting ML should be more or less straightforward (I don't expect major issues, other than some special handling for Thumb stubs).

For the first puzzle (which was solved for single-digic D6 models, and was a non-issue on earlier single-digic models), I've made some limited progress understanding the IPC protocol (communication between the two cores); if you (or anyone else) is interested in continuing this investigation, I can publish them in the current state.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: cheshirecat on July 19, 2017, 05:48:43 PM
First of all, 5D4 has mostly Thumb code, and ARM-console won't help with that (it's ancient stuff I wrote before getting an IDA license, ARM only). Look on CHDK forum for suggestions (from there, I've tried capdis, but only for double-checking small snippets of code where
I didn't trust the output from IDA).
Thanks a1ex.  Ah, I knew about the Thumb code but didn't realise ARM-console was not the way to go with it.
Thanks for the advice. I tried capdis and it worked but disassembled without text strings when I tried it.
I had better luck with the GPL Disassembling advice at CHDK and the disassemblev7.pl from there produced a disassembly with text strings. I now have disassembled code which agrees with the stubs found by chris_overseas. I have found a few more stubs and have registered at bitbucket. I will fork the ML repo once I have figured out the bitbucket workflow ( chris_overseas has given me his ideas for what to do at bitbucket ).

Many stubs are easily identified from strings; chris_overseas found some (look up his repo). Running the firmware in QEMU will save an IDC with what functions got called during that session. Currently the emulation works for the bootloader (which is ARM code) and it also runs a tiny part of the main firmware.
Yes, I had seen the initial stubs work from chris_overseas and it was that which inspired me to have a go to see what I might be able to do. I have been in contact with Chris and he has been very helpful.
I am yet to get QEMU up and running but that is my next step.

First puzzle to solve: how to jump to main firmware from autoexec.bin? Note the 5D4 has two cores, and I believe we have to do something about it somehow.

Next step (which is easy, will probably work in QEMU, but not on the real hardware) would be to adapt the 7D2/80D startup code (which... works in QEMU, but not on the real hardware).

Third step would be making the startup code work on the real hardware (likely as easy as copying a routine from CHDK, discussed on 80D thread). Since I don't have a D6 model yet, I didn't feel any rush to try it.

After that, porting ML should be more or less straightforward (I don't expect major issues, other than some special handling for Thumb stubs).

For the first puzzle (which was solved for single-digic D6 models, and was a non-issue on earlier single-digic models), I've made some limited progress understanding the IPC protocol (communication between the two cores); if you (or anyone else) is interested in continuing this investigation, I can publish them in the current state.

I would be happy to look at the jump to main firmware from autoexec.bin problem to see if there is anything I can figure out. So if you can publish your work on the IPC protocol, please do.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AlexRo on July 19, 2017, 08:06:24 PM
So what's the situation with the 5D Mk IV?? Can someone answer? Did the ML team hack it or is it stil in "not in priority" mode?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on July 19, 2017, 08:34:39 PM
Top of page -> Downloads -> Download Nightly Build -> Scroll down to "When will it be ready"
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: cheshirecat on July 23, 2017, 06:07:24 PM
Thanks for the advice. I tried capdis and it worked but disassembled without text strings when I tried it.

CORRECTION: I had the wrong start address in my capdis command.
Start address should be 0xfe000001 NOT 0xfe000000. The lowest bit tells capdis whether or not to disassemble thumb.
My capdis disassembled code now looks very similar to my disassemblev7.pl disassembled code.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AlexRo on July 26, 2017, 12:23:49 AM
No, I did not want to know when it will be ready. I asked about the situation with the development of ML for 5d mark iv. Is it being worked on or not.
Sorry for my English.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: D_Odell on July 26, 2017, 01:15:15 AM
No, I did not want to know when it will be ready. I asked about the situation with the development of ML for 5d mark iv. Is it being worked on or not.
Sorry for my English.
Don't wait for it..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on July 26, 2017, 07:22:26 AM
No, I did not want to know when it will be ready. I asked about the situation with the development of ML for 5d mark iv. Is it being worked on or not.

Answered in
Top of page -> Downloads -> Download Nightly Build -> Scroll down to "When will it be ready"
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on August 12, 2017, 11:00:33 AM
   Hi,

With the 5D Mark IV Canon have copied Magic Lanterns HDR movie situation but made a rather poor in-camera version.
Why not do a three videos-in-one variant with all those resources there is in the Mark IV camera. A version similar to the original one in Magic Lantern but with a decent fps speed (so people don't look like Charlie Chaplin) and last but not least a better abillity to "see in the dark" - as well as make recordings....
And RAW if possible...

From a video artist mainly working nighttime... :D

....and if possible I wish I could use the full screen of the MK IV viewer for filming i.e. ending in 1920 x 1280 px
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: TrEK on August 23, 2017, 04:29:40 PM
Anybody know if available ML on Canon 5d Mark 4 ???
and ability shooting ML RAW ??
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: andy kh on August 23, 2017, 04:50:50 PM
Anybody know if available ML on Canon 5d Mark 4 ???
and ability shooting ML RAW ??

NO
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mkporwit on August 31, 2017, 03:57:51 AM
So on a more serious note than the whining for features...

Is there anyone even informally poking at a 5D4? I just got one, and I'm a developer of that certain age that still remembers his C fondly. It just seems like it would be easier to pair up with someone to get going...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on August 31, 2017, 09:02:37 AM
Yes, get the ROM dumper and check out the QEMU branch.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ricardo huertas hernandez on September 06, 2017, 09:26:50 AM
Hello, I am new here, nobody thinks about the output dng direct video usb 3.0 that could reach at least 360 mbs in sequential with an external ssd controlled with the flashlight and be able to record continuous 4k gross 30 fps.

According to an American commentator last August I commented that it was possible the direct recording ssd in the 5d mark iv, and this way does not seem to be explored as the most feasible and economic (ssd cheap) in the absence of cfast 2.0.

It is necessary to promote this way as a means of giving a definitive impulse to the lantern in all the canon with usb 3.0 and to counter the lack of cfast 2.0, as in the competition with its equivalents.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on September 06, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
A1ex, as I remember you somewhere shared that from the core developers nobody has it - ergo no development...

Perhaps a little more asking from your side around in your own forum  would speed it up.

1 year after its release - nobody even has began it according to my understanding. I would love to help, but I am a noob compared to you Gods of firmware code.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 06, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
Sorry, unable to decode your request. Rephrase, please.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Audionut on September 07, 2017, 06:14:13 AM
from the core developers nobody has it - ergo no development...

Need hardware + time.

Hardware is easy.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on September 12, 2017, 02:30:48 PM
Sorry, unable to decode your request. Rephrase, please.

We are beyond 1st year of 5D4.

5D3 is still the hot topic around and I find that for normal. The majority of people still are happy with 5D3 and see ni reason to update. In the context of Nikon D850 however ML will begin to seem outdated ;)

Dev’s time is neither cheap nor in abundance. Ergo new serious recruits would be a fresh and good idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: JohanJ on September 12, 2017, 07:46:51 PM
@AOK
Are you aware of that ML is a project based in voluntary contribution? Feel free to participate in the process of porting ML to a new platform
Fresh resources and ideas are certainly welcome.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 12, 2017, 08:09:23 PM
Ergo new serious recruits would be a fresh and good idea.

You are preaching to the choir. This has been an issue as long as I can remember. Unmaintained cams, blindly maintained cams and a1ex (and other) constantly asking for people to look after those neglected. Offering low entry coding task teasers, offering assistance. It wasn't without success. See Nikfreak's ports + dfort's porting EOS M to latest firmware version.
And Digic 6 is around us since 2014, November (7D2) and a generous offer (750D for free) for anyone willing to port a 750D is still open. Only lately we saw substantial progress: Bootflags for Digic 6 cams. 
So: What do you expect? If you have any ideas we all will listen ...

Advocatus Diaboli: Why bother? A few years ago affordable cams offering state-of-the-art video simply didn't exist. Now you can get them and some are cheaper than 5D4.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: garry23 on September 12, 2017, 08:30:19 PM
At the risk of upsetting some ML (virtual) friends, I will throw in my thoughts, especially seeing that next year we will expect a Canon full frame mirrorless, at 4K and accessing EOS lenses.

I've always felt there are two 'families' of ML user: the stills guys and the videographers.

I've always, maybe naively thought it might be good to spin out two versions of ML, i.e. for each family.

For stills photographers, ETTR, dual, auto bracketing and Lua are killer features.

It would be incredible if our ML stills family could transition to a new format, i.e. FF mirrorless. Note I said stills.

In other words, can we envision a stills biased version of ML that is enduring.

Of course, this is all speculation and a bit of fun.

But the world is made by dreamers :-)

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: reddeercity on September 29, 2017, 06:13:14 AM
Had a chance today to check out the 5D Mark IV at my local camera shop shot a few video clips of 4k (4096x2160 @ true24p) MJpeg 4:2:2 527mb/s
didn't have the new C-Log picture style yet , I uploaded one of the files to my google drive below is the link ,  it's 1GB so feel free to download it and play with it .
I didn't really focus that well so beware .

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxNY4d4Aa7KuM1daWV9FUXdpdnM/view?usp=sharing

I recorded it on one of my CF card that has ML on it from my 5D2
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on October 09, 2017, 01:25:53 AM
And Digic 6 is around us since 2014, November (7D2) and a generous offer (750D for free) for anyone willing to port a 750D is still open. Only lately we saw substantial progress: Bootflags for Digic 6 cams. 
So: What do you expect? If you have any ideas we all will listen ...
So if I understand you correctly - the issue is that the Digic 6 (5D4 is 6+, which I hope wouldn't be that different, or?) is still not reversed? Even after 3 years? :-( How unfortunate! This is really unpleasant. And canon's firmware is so not nice as yours.... :/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: NeoUnleashed on October 15, 2017, 05:33:47 PM
Hey,
i'm gonna have the Mark IV in the mid of december for a shooting and i wanted to ask the coder for the actual status?
I've never used ML for special Video codec tweaks etc. However, i never got really used to the Canon Menu, instead
i love to set the Aperture, ISO etc. manually per ML menu (sounds weird, but that's how it is :D). The only 'plugins'
i use from ML are: Intervalometer, MagicZoom and DualISO. So is it possible that a beta version of ML for Mark IV
will be ready until December only with these core functions? As i said i don't need all these video codec stuff, so
maybe other features already working, but aren't released because the coders waiting to finish the "full ML"?
Would love to hear from your information and predictions! :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 16, 2017, 02:18:06 PM
Top of page -> Downloads -> Download nightly builds -> Scroll down to "Your cam is not listed?"

Trying to adjust reality check: Devs haven't found out how to run ML code with Canon firmware on Digic 6 cams. Not a single line. Not even "Hello, World" written to screen. Zilch! So don't hold your breath and read my advice: If there is no ML for your cam act like there will be no ML for this cam ever.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on October 22, 2017, 07:29:27 PM
So don't hold your breath and read my advice: If there is no ML for your cam act like there will be no ML for this cam ever.
So are you suggesting that the ML is slowly but surely dying?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 22, 2017, 07:31:14 PM
No, that's your interpretation. I'm suggesting if there is no ML for his cam he should act like there will be no ML for this cam ever.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on October 22, 2017, 07:59:20 PM
No, that's your interpretation. I'm suggesting if there is no ML for his cam he should act like there will be no ML for this cam ever.
OK. And are there any newer cameras reverse engineered then?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Danne on October 22, 2017, 08:05:25 PM
I think this was a good answer. Also read the link.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17627.msg191184#msg191184
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: legreve on November 13, 2017, 07:36:55 PM
I really don't see log as something incredible and amazing in the 5D4... can't really see why it's called log anyways.

When I compare my FS7 logged footage to my 5D4 logged footage, they are vastly different. The log footage on the 5D4 almost goes from black to highlight in a waveform.

Thankfully I got the log upgrade for free, so no harm done. But I would LOVE to see a ML Raw edition of the 5D4 camera. That would be amazing, and doesn't even have to be 4k.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dfort on November 13, 2017, 08:26:18 PM
can't really see why it's called log anyways.

It's log, it's log,
It's big, it's heavy, it's wood. (https://youtu.be/-fQGPZTECYs)

Seriously, it is short for logarithmic curve. Here's an article that simplifies log vs. raw (https://www.provideocoalition.com/log-vs-raw-the-simple-version/). Technically all "photo styles" use some variation of a log curve but the "log" like in S-Log, V-Log, etc. are technical curves to get the most information possible out of the sensor without having to save the raw data. You need to be very careful with exposure and white balance when shooting log but I'm sure you already know that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: mariosk9gr on December 14, 2017, 01:55:44 PM
As an owner of a 5D4 I was waiting impatient to see ml raw support on my camera.Unfortunately this is not going to happen as it seems.
I had a 5D3 before and I have used many times raw.Great times!
For me there is nothing anymore to hold me on this forum.Alex and the rest of the team did amazong job in the past but the technology goes beyond and there are new cameras that need imo to get ml support.I wouldn't mind to pay a good amount of money for ML support for my 5D4 and Im sure that most of us would do the same also.
I don't care for 50d, 7d, 500d updates and support... they belong to the past! Every 4 years Canon announces a new 5D, it should be the first camera to receive ML support.
Nevermind it doesn't make any difference...

 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Andy600 on December 14, 2017, 02:29:08 PM
As an owner of a 5D4 I was waiting impatient to see ml raw support on my camera.Unfortunately this is not going to happen as it seems.
I had a 5D3 before and I have used many times raw.Great times!
For me there is nothing anymore to hold me on this forum.Alex and the rest of the team did amazong job in the past but the technology goes beyond and there are new cameras that need imo to get ml support.I wouldn't mind to pay a good amount of money for ML support for my 5D4 and Im sure that most of us would do the same also.
I don't care for 50d, 7d, 500d updates and support... they belong to the past! Every 4 years Canon announces a new 5D, it should be the first camera to receive ML support.
Nevermind it doesn't make any difference...

There is so much here that a1ex, other devs and forum contributors could take issue with but lets just say farewell.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: hjfilmspeed on December 16, 2017, 05:58:20 AM
It makes me sad how some tend to be so impatient on this forum considering all the work that is being done ..... for free. ML RAW on the 5Diii is still such an achievement. At it's price now, what other FF camera Supports 14Bit raw video at 1920x1080?
 But at the same time it makes me happy that people want ML so bad. I wish I had the mentality to help code but for now I remain a humble and thankful user.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: IDA_ML on December 16, 2017, 10:46:51 AM
I wouldn't mind to pay a good amount of money for ML support for my 5D4 and Im sure that most of us would do the same also.

No, you are wrong!  If there were more people in this world who understand that there are things that you cannot buy with money, our planet would be a much better place to live.  Magic Lantern is one of these things and this is the reason why so many people love it and why it makes them all so happy.

Farewell, mariosk9gr, and enjoy your 5D4!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on December 16, 2017, 12:18:11 PM
But at the same time it makes me happy that people want ML so bad.

Once they will want it badly enough to start playing with the code, I'll be here to help. Guess why there's a ROM dumper available ;)

Has any of you even noticed this (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/qemu/contrib/qemu/)?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on December 16, 2017, 03:38:02 PM
As an owner of a 5D4 I was waiting impatient to see ml raw support on my camera.Unfortunately this is not going to happen as it seems.
I had a 5D3 before and I have used many times raw.Great times!
For me there is nothing anymore to hold me on this forum.Alex and the rest of the team did amazong job in the past but the technology goes beyond and there are new cameras that need imo to get ml support.I wouldn't mind to pay a good amount of money for ML support for my 5D4 and Im sure that most of us would do the same also.
I don't care for 50d, 7d, 500d updates and support... they belong to the past! Every 4 years Canon announces a new 5D, it should be the first camera to receive ML support.
Nevermind it doesn't make any difference...

Despite all the advancements, just sold my Mark III yesterday.  While my Mark IV doesn't have RAW video, I just sent it in to get the C-Log upgrade.  That DPAF is just too amazing.  The type of camera movements I was able to do with the Mark IV is insane and the lowlight AF is unrivaled.  And its also true 4k 24p.  I shot a wedding and loved the colors of the Mark III in RAW video more than the 4, but the Mark IV video was so much sharper.  Also, the noise handling with the Mark IV was WAY better than my Mark III.  With C-Log and DPAF, I don't see why they don't try developing more for that camera.  And I'd contribute if a kickstarter or Patreon were started for it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on December 16, 2017, 03:48:40 PM
You are not getting it, djkraq.
Right now there are no developers willing/able to work on 5D4 and crowdfunding won't help a bit. If payment is involved some devs have told to drop from the project alltogether.
Therefore you will be killing the very thing you want to flourish.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on December 16, 2017, 05:41:57 PM
You are not getting it, djkraq.
Right now there are no developers willing/able to work on 5D4 and crowdfunding won't help a bit. If payment is involved some devs have told to drop from the project alltogether.
Therefore you will be killing the very thing you want to flourish.

Walter, much respect to you and everything that you have done to support ML.  The crowfunding part was a very small portion of my argument.  I understand the problems and frustrations that comes with coding and I understand why money won't solve the problem.  The solution that I am trying to offer is this: The 5D Mark IV has a significantly better sensor, much better highlight recovery, much better shadow recovery.  If ML were put on this camera, we would basically have something of a Canon C200 ish camera.  There is much better versatility with the camera with DPAF.  I've had both cameras for a long time and after a while, I couldn't justify keeping the 5D Mark III over the Mark IV has official C-Log that can compete with RAW video (I understand how powerful RAW video is).  I sold the 5D3 to a friend and I told him I'd continue to give him support with that Cam, but IMO, the 5DIII has reached its limit.  It is better than a Ursa (not URSA Mini PRO) but the developers should really consider moving on from it or at least putting more focus into the 5D4.  I presented the Patreon as another source of income so that developers could offset their daily jobs to focus more on ML.  As I said, I know money isn't the solution, just really wish I even had time to program for it as I'm active duty military, own a multimedia company, work on music and video production.....just wish there was more that I could do to help move it along.  I've done some amazing work with ML, but right now, I just would love for the software to move forward with newer equipment. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on December 16, 2017, 06:16:36 PM
ML goes planned obsolescence?
Something for ML's April Fools Day 2018: Dropping 5D3 support in favour of 5D4.

Better chance coming up with a developer fluent in embedded devices (ARM architecture), C and assembler and spare time (in spades) and - cream on top - a passionate photog.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dfort on December 16, 2017, 07:56:17 PM
Has any of you even noticed this (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/qemu/contrib/qemu/)?

You mean this?

Code: [Select]
./run_canon_fw.sh 5D4,firmware=boot=1
...
[EOS] loading './5D4/ROM1.BIN' to 0xFC000000-0xFDFFFFFF
[MPU] FIXME: no MPU spells for 5D4.
[MPU] FIXME: no MPU button codes for 5D4.
Start address: 0xFC000008
Setting BOOTDISK flag to FFFFFFFF
...
BootLoad
CF Detect High
SLOT_A LOAD OK.
Open file for read : AUTOEXEC.BIN
File size : 0xCAA0
Now jump to AUTOEXEC.BIN!!
...

Ta Da!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4736/27316050809_ecb413421e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HBPUeg)

I'm not a developer or fluent in anything but do have a passion for photography and cinematography -- and fell down the Magic Lantern rabbit hole.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on December 18, 2017, 12:37:18 PM
This means that we are able to enable the bootflag on 5D4?
LED blinking worked as well.

So we need to figure out how to jump to main Firmware?

I'm not a dev but have some very basic skills of C++...and next year i have a bit of time :-)
I would be great if someone may point me in the right direction...

Cheerio
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: dfort on December 18, 2017, 06:14:50 PM
What it means is that if you can get a firmware dump you can start the porting process in QEMU.

This means that we are able to enable the bootflag on 5D4?

This is QEMU setting the bootflag:

Code: [Select]
Setting BOOTDISK flag to FFFFFFFF
So we need to figure out how to jump to main Firmware?

It is already happening:

Code: [Select]
Now jump to AUTOEXEC.BIN!!
Read through the EOSM2 topic starting about here (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=15895.msg185084#msg185084) to see how that camera is being ported. It would be great to see this Canon 5D Mark IV topic change from a place to vent frustration over not having ML to collaborating on getting it working.

Note that it isn't trivial because the 5D4 uses a Digic 6+ processor (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Digic_6_Porting) and ARM Thumb2 (https://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4024632/Introduction-to-ARM-thumb) instruction set so you can't just go searching for stubs that match the ones used the the current ports. It is more likely that ML will be working on one of the simpler Digic 6 cameras like the 80D, 750D, 760D, etc. before it happens on this beast.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djkraq on December 19, 2017, 01:10:05 AM
What it means is that if you can get a firmware dump you can start the porting process in QEMU.

This is QEMU setting the bootflag:

Code: [Select]
Setting BOOTDISK flag to FFFFFFFF
It is already happening:

Code: [Select]
Now jump to AUTOEXEC.BIN!!
Read through the EOSM2 topic starting about here (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=15895.msg185084#msg185084) to see how that camera is being ported. It would be great to see this Canon 5D Mark IV topic change from a place to vent frustration over not having ML to collaborating on getting it working.

Note that it isn't trivial because the 5D4 uses a Digic 6+ processor (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Digic_6_Porting) and ARM Thumb2 (https://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4024632/Introduction-to-ARM-thumb) instruction set so you can't just go searching for stubs that match the ones used the the current ports. It is more likely that ML will be working on one of the simpler Digic 6 cameras like the 80D, 750D, 760D, etc. before it happens on this beast.

Damn dfort!  You doing the damn thing!  You came really far really fast.  You are so right.  I should be getting my 5D Mark IV back from canon with the C-Log Upgrade hopefully this week.  Hopefully I can contribute more than venting lol.  Hell, I might even make a firmware for my 1DX Mark II lol!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: AOK on December 30, 2017, 10:09:44 AM
A little step for the devs, a huge step for 5D4 humanity! :)))
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: cheshirecat on January 11, 2018, 08:03:29 PM
Note that it isn't trivial because the 5D4 uses a Digic 6+ processor (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Digic_6_Porting) and ARM Thumb2 (https://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4024632/Introduction-to-ARM-thumb) instruction set so you can't just go searching for stubs that match the ones used the the current ports

True but I think some stubs can be found by comparing the code.
I think I found some stubs following on from Chris Miller's work. I reckon I went about as far as I could with that though, back in July 2017.
https://bitbucket.org/johncheshire/magic-lantern-fork/commits/52b1a828a076573333d7de9f235ba9c23d8a40a1
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: olofen on February 08, 2018, 11:29:56 AM
...still setting my hope for the Canon Mk IV becoming the beast it really is set forth by the energy of Magic Lantern! 👍
(you just have to lure it out of its cave....)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Sapporo on February 10, 2018, 10:20:26 AM
Extracts the second raw file from 5DIV.

https://www.fastrawviewer.com/DPRSplit
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on February 15, 2018, 01:56:01 PM
Hello everyone!

I was browsing the web and I cam across this rather unusual bit of information.

On this link:

http://vfxcamdb.com/category/camera/canon/

Under the Canon 5D4 voice, they claim it can produce: 14-bit DNG (Magic Lantern RAW)

Do they know something we don't? :D As far as I know, magic lantern it's not coming to the 5D4 anytime soon
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on February 15, 2018, 02:09:39 PM
Welcome to "How to identify a less reliable web service (101)".
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on February 15, 2018, 07:06:55 PM
 :D

I hope it made somebody else smile apart for myself.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: cheshirecat on February 28, 2018, 07:03:35 PM
On this link:
http://vfxcamdb.com/category/camera/canon/
Under the Canon 5D4 voice, they claim it can produce: 14-bit DNG (Magic Lantern RAW)

Looking at that page I only see 14-bit DNG (Magic Lantern RAW) under the listing for the 5D3, not the 5D4
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on February 28, 2018, 07:21:30 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20161104013404/http://vfxcamdb.com/category/camera/canon/
https://web.archive.org/web/20171002164648/http://vfxcamdb.com/category/camera/canon/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on March 04, 2018, 05:33:03 PM
Looking at that page I only see 14-bit DNG (Magic Lantern RAW) under the listing for the 5D3, not the 5D4

I actually sent them an E-mail about it, and they changed it ^__^

Thanks walter for the webarchive
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Deny on March 13, 2018, 04:36:08 AM
So how does one contribute to the 5D4 ML port? I own one and consider myself a reasonable hacker/programmer, regardless of programming language. Is there anyone who's taken the resposibility for the port and who can break down the necessary tasks and distribute them among old and new devs? I've read the topic and from what I've understood Digic 6 and Digic 6+ are pretty much uncharted territory, is there any info at all on how to get started on Thumb2? I own a linux box that I can use to run Capstone, will that work? More importantly, I'd really like a smaller, simpler task to get started if anyone is willing to take the time to give me one and point me into the right direction (meaning the necesssary resources to get the job done).

Now please don't bite my head off for this, but I really can't afford to brick my 5D4, I'm not rich and these things cost a lot more here than in the US, so chances are if I screw it up I won't be able to buy another one, ever. So tips for minimizing the risk of such a disaster happening to my camera would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on March 13, 2018, 10:46:20 AM
I've read the topic and from what I've understood Digic 6 and Digic 6+ are pretty much uncharted territory, is there any info at all on how to get started on Thumb2?

Is this (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/qemu/contrib/qemu/HACKING.rst?fileviewer=file-view-default#rst-header-initial-firmware-analysis) not clear enough, or (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/qemu/contrib/qemu/#rst-header-development-and-reverse-engineering-guide) too (https://builds.magiclantern.fm/#not-listed) hard (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2864.msg196688#msg196688) to (https://twitter.com/autoexec_bin/status/954662020271493120) find (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.msg194743#msg194743)?

(for some reason, it requires a few page reloads in Firefox, but loads out of the box in Chrome - bitbucket issue?)

Quote
More importantly, I'd really like a smaller, simpler task to get started

- re-read the thread
- read other DIGIC 6 threads
- read DIGIC 6 threads from CHDK
- find other posts on DIGIC 6, e.g. on the reverse engineering area
- find the latest post related to DIGIC 6 (hint: it was yesterday)
- find recent commits related to DIGIC 6
- find the previous work done for this camera (stubs, emulation, RE notes) and verify it
- run your firmware in QEMU
- pick something that doesn't work and try to fix it

Now the interesting (and difficult) ones (mostly valid for all other D6 models):
- port io_trace (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2388.msg196941#msg196941) to ARMv7 (can be debugged in QEMU)
- port the 80D, 750D and 5Ds findings (boot process, serial flash dumper, boot flag enabler, LED blinker, etc) - mostly DONE
- fix the emulation so it can save files to the virtual card (likely easy, maybe time-consuming) DONE (september 10)
- try to understand the communication between the two cores (main and AE)
- find a way to jump to main firmware (depends on previous step) DONE (september 7)
- get debug logs and RAM dumps from the camera*) DONE (september 7)
- find out how the display works (best done by somebody who has a DIGIC 6 camera in their hands; look up 5DS experiments, posts from Ant123 and read the CHDK threads on this topic)

*) This requires the boot flag enabled, and the ability to jump to main firmware on real hardware (non-issues in the emulator); if you get it working in QEMU, I'll take care of these.

Quote
I really can't afford to brick my 5D4

At this stage, you can't. There's nothing that lets you run user code on the camera; currently, all the analysis is done in the emulator. The only code you can run right now on your camera is the ROM dumper (which does not modify it). If you want to run your own code on the physical camera, you will either need the boot flag enabled, or ask us to sign the binary for you.

The code that enables the boot flag is easy to adapt from 80D/750D/7D2/5DS (where it was confirmed to work), but given the unusual dual-core configuration and the price of the camera, it's a little more risky to try. I'd wait until the communication between the two cores will be understood (that is, until we'll be able to emulate the dual-core boot process in QEMU). I'm working on that, but not full-time.

Quote
[...] break down the necessary tasks and distribute them among old and new devs?

There's no such thing here. Anyone (old or new) is free to work on anything they are interested in, whenever they feel like (there are no commitments; this is just a hobby project). There's plenty of low-hanging fruit, but it all starts with reading the previous work (on DIGIC 6 for this particular thread) and running it on your machine. The development tools should work on all major operating systems (with minor rough edges).

Search keyword: easy coding task
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: kwstas on May 20, 2018, 12:27:45 PM
Hi all, congrats to all developers and a1ex of course for the ML miracle.
I was just wondering by reading the mkIV specs if there is some short of possibility that dual pixel technology through ML turns to a true dual iso capability.
I know that we are far away for this specific-feuture discussion, but just out of curiosity.
Keep on porting guys!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on May 20, 2018, 12:48:25 PM
That depends on how the readout process works for the dual pixel image (whether the ISO can be reconfigured for each sub-image); I don't know much about it at this stage, except that on previous models, ISO is applied at the very end, during readout (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=21998.msg200136#msg200136). There is a small spatial difference between the two sub-frames in out-of-focus areas, as discussed earlier in this thread, but probably not a show stopper.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: sebasantos on June 12, 2018, 07:14:38 PM
That depends on how the readout process works for the dual pixel image (whether the ISO can be reconfigured for each sub-image); I don't know much about it at this stage, except that on previous models, ISO is applied at the very end, during readout (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=21998.msg200136#msg200136). There is a small spatial difference between the two sub-frames in out-of-focus areas, as discussed earlier in this thread, but probably not a show stopper.

Maybe I am terrible wrong, but I think it is not necessary to implements dual iso in this camera. It's almost iso invariant, and the dual pixel raw technology gives you the 1 stop difference in one frame (well, is not one frame after you separate the dual pixel frame) that put this camera even slightly above the best DR cameras.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Blizen on August 04, 2018, 02:47:38 PM
Is the Canon 5d Mark iv portable to ML? I remember checking in back at 2017, any progress on this at the moment?
Thanks for all the work, cannot wait, want it so badly.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Audionut on August 07, 2018, 03:41:15 PM
any progress on this at the moment?

https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/faq#any_progress_on_xyz
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 07, 2018, 09:31:08 AM
Last night, chris_overseas sat down with me to run a couple of tests.

- jumping to Canon's main firmware finally works (this (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/276f6ff3d4ee7a7d4e8ff3d487eb149454574ee8#chg-src/boot-d6.c) fixed it)
- loading ML alongside main firmware works, too (startup code nearly identical to 80D's)
- 80D logging experiments worked out of the box, too
- managed to get some LiveView RAW dumps, but they have many artifacts and appear to be resized (1824x774 in 1080p60, 2360x886 in 4K30, 1824x992 in photo mode)

Logs:
DEBUGMSG.LOG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/DEBUGMSG.LOG) (plain startup + MPU messages)
DEBUGMSG_4K30.LOG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/DEBUGMSG_4K30.LOG) (includes some ENGIO messages)
DEBUGMSG_1080p60.LOG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/DEBUGMSG_1080p60.LOG) (includes some ENGIO messages)

FPS timers:
4k30: A=0x5A3, B=0x482/483
1080p60: A=0x4B9, B=0x2B0/2B1
50MHz clock (5D2/3 have 24, 80D has 27, most APS-C D5 models have 32).

Source code: digic6-dumper (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/branch/digic6-dumper) branch (includes previous work from chris_overseas and cheshirecat).
Binaries: on request, firmware 1.0.4 for now (logging experiments, (V)RAM dumpers, simple intervalometer, you name it).

Easy coding task: update from 1.0.4 to 1.1.2. Most of my RE notes were for 1.0.4, so I've used that for now.

If anyone is willing to take the risk of enabling the boot flag, I can do that as well. There is a slight chance things might go wrong, but so far there were no issues on other DIGIC 6 models (tested 80D, 750D, 760D, 5DS and 7D2), and no volunteers tested the same code on DIGIC 7 (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19737.msg205290#msg205290) yet.

Other volunteers welcome to run further tests on 1.0.4, as Chris already updated his firmware to 1.1.2. Just send me a PM.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on September 09, 2018, 03:08:36 AM
Great work @a1ex
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 10, 2018, 12:10:09 AM
FPS timers:
4k30: A=0x5A3, B=0x482/483
1080p60: A=0x4B9, B=0x2B0/2B1
50MHz clock (5D2/3 have 24, 80D has 27, most APS-C D5 models have 32).

50Mhz   :D
That's what I want in my 6d  ;)

But looking at the values of A and B timers...
Looks like the 5d has multiple row readout for the B timer, B timer is half the value you would expect here, right ? Nice  :D
And A timer has also weird values, 5d3 has 8 column readout, 6d has 4 column readout, but not sure here, but it looks like 5dIV does 3 column readout in 4k and 2 column readout in 1080p for A timer ?

Not sure if my thinking is right, little late over here  ???
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 10, 2018, 09:48:46 PM
Yes, it appears to read out 2 lines per timer B increment, just like the 80D (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg200479#msg200479).

As for timer A... this is exactly the reason I've asked for more testers on 1.0.4 - to run some more experiments to clear this mystery, and also to find out what's up with the resized raw. Two testers contacted me, but they were both running 1.1.2, and apparently downgrading is not straightforward: this camera has the same issue as 5D3 1.3.x (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=18941.0)...

So... it looks like we need to update all our stubs (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/digic6-dumper/platform/5D4.104/stubs.S?fileviewer=file-view-default) to 1.1.2 - who's going to help? I've started by updating the emulation (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/ef2516ff3fb9ab82364a14dd338bca28d07f26f4) - it goes as far as the 80D, including file I/O on the virtual SD card.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on September 11, 2018, 01:53:21 PM
So... it looks like we need to update all our stubs (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/digic6-dumper/platform/5D4.104/stubs.S?fileviewer=file-view-default) to 1.1.2 - who's going to help? I've started by updating the emulation (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/ef2516ff3fb9ab82364a14dd338bca28d07f26f4) - it goes as far as the 80D, including file I/O on the virtual SD card.

I've started on this but my time is quite limited over the next week so it may take me a little while to get it done.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on September 11, 2018, 02:29:41 PM
Sorry for spamming, but this is absolutely gorgeous news. Just canceled pre-order for BMPCC4K.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on September 11, 2018, 04:53:16 PM
Don't hold your breath ;-)


I still have the FW 1.0.1 on my 5D IV -> this means i could perform some tests right?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 11, 2018, 06:42:45 PM
Right - you may find 1.0.4 on Pelican's site (https://pel.hu/down/).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jackmoro on September 11, 2018, 08:30:08 PM
I guess 1.1.0 wont help?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 11, 2018, 09:54:56 PM
As long as you can downgrade to 1.0.4, it helps. Otherwise, it doesn't. Unable to tell without trying.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: jackmoro on September 11, 2018, 10:53:14 PM
Well, I've CLOG installed, so pretty doubt it can be downgraded, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on September 12, 2018, 08:19:40 AM
Well i updated my FW to 1.0.4 so i'm ready.

I need a little bit of instructions what i exactly have to do...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2018, 12:27:42 PM
Alright, please try the following FIR files (for firmware 1.0.4, otherwise the camera will just lock up):

LVRAW5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/LVRAW5D4.FIR): LiveView raw dumper + regular logging
LVRAV5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/LVRAV5D4.FIR): LiveView raw dumper + verbose logging

Please run them both in the following modes:
- photo mode, M (just wait) (crashes)
- photo mode, M, plain CR2 picture (take a picture during the first 5 seconds, while the LED blinks)
- photo mode, M, dual pixel raw CR2 (same as above)
- all "interesting" video modes (720p, 1080p, 4K, UHD, all frame rates)

The VRAM dumps will be the same with both files, so you may keep just one copy. Logs will be different (the verbose one will be trimmed; that's the reason for also including a regular one). Logs are not numbered, old files will be overwritten, but the two programs will use different names for the log file. That means, you can run both FIR files for each experiment (place only one of them on the card at a time), then copy the output files on your PC.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: noipego on September 12, 2018, 01:14:41 PM
i would like to involve too, but got 1.1.2 installed.. anyone contacted canon repair and asked if they could flash the firmware back to 1.0.4? many thanks for progress ML on 5d4
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 12, 2018, 01:23:02 PM
Is going back to older firmware versions impossible on the 5dIV or is it possible, but more complicated then other Canon cams ?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on September 12, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
Okay, i've done some tests:

- I Updated my FW with your first FIR file (LVRAW5D4.FIR)
- i started the camera and waited - nothing happend
- i turned the camera off
- i turned the camrea on and took a picture during the first 5 sec
-> than i copied the content of my SD Card into a folder on my PC
- changed to Dual Pixel RAW and restarted the camera
- took a Dual Pixel RAW photo during the first 5 sec
-> than i copied the content of my SD Card into a folder on my PC

I also took some videos in 4K and 1080p at different framerates and video options.

Before i continue testing with all resolutions and framerates; i'm not sure if i've done these tests right! I can't find any readable log file...but also, i am a big noob in this area :-D
I uploaded the content of my SD Card to my DropBox:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pspmzkkvhkccfmz/AABhoGSy6W1LR0lYSkEQXKvja?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pspmzkkvhkccfmz/AABhoGSy6W1LR0lYSkEQXKvja?dl=0)

Please let me know if i missed something or if this is the way to continue the tests...

Thanks
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Danne on September 12, 2018, 02:52:52 PM
Is it also not working downgrading with eos utility as pointed out by a1ex before?
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=18941.0
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 12, 2018, 02:59:31 PM
@Myown

Not sure how this exactly works, but I expect the FIR files are temporarily updates.
So you can do a firmware update with them, the content gets loaded during update and then it's probably logging.
Once you switch off your camera, the whole stuff from the FIR file is gone, your camera is back to normal.

Please run them both in the following modes:
- photo mode, M (just wait)
- photo mode, M, plain CR2 picture (take a picture during the first 5 seconds, while the LED blinks)
- photo mode, M, dual pixel raw CR2 (same as above)
- all "interesting" video modes (720p, 1080p, 4K, UHD, all frame rates)

So I expect you use it as follows, turn your camera on, put it in one of the modes Alex asked for (for example, photo mode, M mode on the mode dial)
And run the FIR file through the firmware update. After that it probably starts logging (see if you can see the card reader led blink after update is done ?)
Then switch camera off (the FIR update is gone, your camera is normal again) and check if you can see a log file on your card.

Switch your camera on again, and switch to a second mode, for example photo mode, M again, run the FIR file through firmware update. After the update is done, take a picture, wait till card reader led stops blinking and you can turn your camera off.
See if you get a log file this way ?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on September 12, 2018, 03:16:57 PM
I thought i missed something  ::)

So again; i copied the FIR file on the SD Card and started my camera. Than i loaded the FIR file with the FW Update.
After the "update" the LED blinks some times and stops after a few seconds.

I tried to take a picture but the shutter did not release! Also the focus was not working.
Browsing through the Menu works.

So i turned the camera off and checked the SD Card: no files...only the standard folders are on it.

The behavior is with both FIR files the same...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Levas on September 12, 2018, 03:19:14 PM
In that case I'm out of ideas.
Plan B, wait for Alex.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2018, 03:21:29 PM
Plan C: please PM me a copy of your ROM dump.

Alternate FIR files (confirmed by chris_overseas on 1.0.4, but no firmware version checking done and raw dumps will be resized):

TST8_5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/TST8_5D4.FIR): LiveView raw dumper + regular logging
TST7_5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/TST7_5D4.FIR): LiveView raw dumper + verbose logging

Expected output: http://www.redyeti.net/test/TST7_5D4/ and http://www.redyeti.net/test/TST8_5D4/



Edit - diagnosed: apparently trying to enable/save the image buffers outside LiveView ends up with a crash.

For photo mode, please find some general-purpose loggers (they don't do anything else):

LOGV_5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/LOGV_5D4.FIR): verbose logging (preferred)
LOGR_5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/LOGR_5D4.FIR): regular logging

First try the verbose version.
- If the log file ends with "Logging finished.", that means the log is complete (was not trimmed) and there's no need to run the regular one.
- Otherwise, the log is incomplete (buffer size too small) and you should run the regular logger as well in order to get some of the missing messages.

The logging experiment should be performed with:
- simple startup in photo mode
- raw photo capture
- dual pixel raw photo capture

Optional (I won't need them right now, just nice to have when looking into stuff): image playback, sensor cleaning, startup with external monitors, startup with either SD or CF, changing exposure parameters, startup with different lenses, touchscreen operation, autofocus, audio settings, whatever else you may find interesting in Canon menus.

You've got 10 seconds (5 LED blinks) to perform the experiment; after that, a log file will be saved. The log file is not numbered and will be overwritten.

TODO: allocate large blocks of memory (hard to do right after startup, so it would require some sort of two-stage logging) and log all MMIO events (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/pull-requests/900/mmio-tracing-backend-insanely-powerful). Already doing that on DIGIC 4 and 5 (dm-spy-experiments and io_trace_full branches) and the logs were extremely helpful.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: basekson on September 12, 2018, 07:46:32 PM
I just tried the latest LOGV.

I did this: (but it only worked with live view, it would not snap the picture unless I turned the LV on)
- simple startup in photo mode
- raw photo capture
- dual pixel raw photo capture

Here is my logs:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bdvyzsszjp88vps/AACOPImEVyiiZRIjdY2p8Vsva?dl=0

Tell me if there is anything else I can do or if I did something wrong. Hope I can help!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2018, 08:08:28 PM
Thanks - that's just the simple startup, right? No idea why it wouldn't snap the picture; the camera should work normally after firmware update. Are other buttons working?

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: basekson on September 12, 2018, 08:51:15 PM
Sorry but I am new to this but I am some kind of technical so just tell me what to do and I will try.

I did this:
Installed 1.0.4 for Canon.
Switched to your LOGV_5D4.FIR: verbose logging (prefered)
Booted the camera up.
Systempref -> firmware update.
And the text showed "Firmware update" for like 2 sec.
Then it started blinking.
I tried to take photos in auto, manual (with and without AF)
Tested with/without Dual pixel.
Would not snap.
Started live view and used snap by touch and it worked.

Turned off and uploaded the log.
Made another try and did try to do all this above in 10 sec.
Uploaded the log in the same dir as the link with _nr_2 added.

Am I doing something else wrong here?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2018, 09:23:55 PM
My bad, it was 5 seconds (logging takes place during the LED blinks); looks like the timer from QEMU is a little off. Seen the second log, too (didn't see it the first time).

If you double-click the LiveView button during these 5 seconds, does it change anything? These two logs don't show any sort of LiveView or photo capture activity...

edit: updated the two FIR files with 10 seconds (5 blinks, 1 second on, 1 second off).

edit: also added PHOTO5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/PHOTO5D4.FIR): 5 blinks, photo capture, 5 more blinks, save log.

I remember CHDK folks had similar issues on some models (maybe problems with video recording or something like that) when running from the Firmware Update dialog. Maybe it's worth trying to enable the boot flag and run the same test code as we normally do (autoexec.bin), if any of you is willing to take the plunge.

edit: DEBUGMSV.LOG from Attempt 3 shows some LiveView activity; unfortunately the logging buffer gets full really quickly, so that won't work for still photo capture.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: basekson on September 12, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
Now I did a new try and updated the links and deleted the old ones.
The file got larger so I think it worked. This was just taking a photo with live view.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bdvyzsszjp88vps/AACOPImEVyiiZRIjdY2p8Vsva?dl=0

Edit: did try photo fir also, I made folders for every new try.

Edit 2: Did some new tries with faster sd-card on my to latest tries but did not get Log completed.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on September 12, 2018, 11:00:31 PM
Great job guy's.. if I had a 5D IV I would of helped. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Boo... giving up for now.

Found the LiveView RAW dump filename (46201988.RAW) in LiveView logs, as "pbyDafRawAddr 46201988". That might tell why the DNGs I've got were distorted - why didn't I think about it earlier?!

The image format is roughly similar to what I've got from 70D (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/70D/dual-pixel/70D-dual-pixel.html), except it's full color and has lower resolution.

The sample I've got is not very interesting for showing the effect, so if you'd like to see some dual pixel LiveView frames, please run the following FIR in movie mode (plain 1080p) with the camera looking at anything half-decent (your choice):

TST8_5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/TST8_5D4.FIR): LiveView "DafRaw" dumper + regular logging
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: domasa on September 12, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
This is main news of the day!
I watched the forum live.. better than Apple Keynote  :D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: basekson on September 13, 2018, 11:04:32 AM
Maybe I did something wrong, I did choose RAW (S/L) in the end yesterday. Thought it might not fill the buffer as fast as RAW.
I did a new attempt with your new FIR and also included the .raw file. When I did open it was just jitter, but thats maybe normal for testing :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 13, 2018, 07:07:06 PM
Apple Key...what? There was a tweet saying that Apple didn't announce a full frame camera (https://twitter.com/calebpike/status/1039935496200380417); that's what I've noticed (but I'm usually not up to date with news).

Re-uploaded LVRA[WV]5D4.FIR (found a bug) and decoded the dual pixel streams from LiveView (the "resized raws" I was talking about earlier).

5D4-lv-daf-raw.html (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/dual-pixel/5D4-lv-daf-raw.html) (14MB)

(https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/dual-pixel/flip.gif)

8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: basekson on September 13, 2018, 07:22:34 PM
Just tell me if you like me to try something that could help. I don't se the fir you are talking about.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 13, 2018, 07:26:41 PM
Their location did not change.

MD5:
3bfb6bd6e2938c9233b5ef5b0e7ccac9  LVRAV5D4.FIR
a9349c80d24f11143c0d3432a1d3bfba  LVRAW5D4.FIR

Yet another fix:
917b0fea581889903378bbf2a9eb18f4  LVRAV5D4.FIR
553e1c9779994740cb563d7336d411fc  LVRAW5D4.FIR
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: kichetof on September 13, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
8)

More SwissArmyKnife to come! Stay tuned (like Steve Jobs says!)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on September 13, 2018, 11:54:11 PM
No way Guy's @a1ex @kichetof is that what I think it is.. actual dual pixel liveview Raw coming from the 5D4 WOW. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 14, 2018, 12:06:49 AM
Almost got a plain 1080p30 DNG (man, this camera is really stubborn):

1080p.DNG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/1080p.DNG) (valid data in the top half only)

Vertical resolution (including black bars) should have been 1288. Active area: 2256 x 1266 (vertical size might differ a bit).
Now to figure out how to get valid data in the second half (i.e. where the EDMAC transfer starts and how to change its size...)

FIR to get raw data for the above: LVRV25D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/LVRV25D4.FIR). To be tested in other video modes, too.

Happy pixel peeping.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on September 14, 2018, 12:49:26 AM
WOW.. @a1ex amazing work.  Now time to get a 5D4  8) so I can help. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: domasa on September 14, 2018, 12:52:25 AM
Output is read from sensore width or cropped?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: kwstas on September 14, 2018, 09:55:16 AM
Congrats a1ex once again!
I would like to ask you what do you think will be the benefit from this dual pixel technology to ML implementations. As far as I know except double raw file size which maybe means something like bigger buffer sizes (=faster bursts?), what it offers is this almost useless parallax effect for micro focus adjustment. Do you think there will potentially be other benefits like higher dynamic range, or resolving alias issues? DPRsplit app guys claim that they extract two cr2 and because subpixels capture half the light (!) this initial bracketing offers 1EV gain in DR. Do you think that is feasible?

again, thanks for the extra perspective you give to canon products.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on September 14, 2018, 10:22:51 AM
Answered this one 2 years ago (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-dual-pixel.html) (page 4 (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.75) on this thread) and also linked to it a few posts above.

The EDMAC transfers appear to be forwarded to a secondary CPU (Omar (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.msg206016#msg206016), the counterpart of Eeko on D5). That's probably where image size has to be adjusted to get a full Bayer dump from LiveView.

In other words... back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: psdn on September 14, 2018, 02:14:12 PM
WOW.. @a1ex amazing work.  Now time to get a 5D4  8) so I can help.

Indeed. I would like to help as well. Having this on the 5DIV would extend the benefits of magic lantern for a long time.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on September 14, 2018, 07:31:53 PM
I've ported some of the 5D4 stubs from 1.0.4 to 1.1.2 but I won't have a chance to look at it further for another week or so. If anyone wants to carry on in the meantime my changes are here:

https://bitbucket.org/chris_miller/ml-fork/commits/fcae3481c3610d6920652dd84cc5e5d00ed48d98
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rinski on September 22, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Hello, I'm new here, I'm very excited I hope you can develop a dump of raw video data directly with USB 3.0 to an SSD 530 mb / s to break the limits of the 5d mark III and be able to record more economically than the cfast and a lot of speed until you can get to dualrawvideo 7k.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on October 01, 2018, 06:54:55 PM
Trying to interpret a bunch of logs from myown, kichetof and chris_overseas, covering LiveView configuration in all view modes. WIP, some logs were incomplete. Take with a grain of salt; interpretation is subject to change.

(https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5D4-lv.png)

Open the image in new window, ideally on a large monitor.

Preliminary conclusions:
- rolling shutter in 1080p: 2.42 us for every 2 lines; 15.3 ms per frame, assuming 1266 lines (in all 1080p modes)
   -> please cross-check with measurements from other sources and let me know if it's within the ballpark or not
- 1080p60 apparently pushed to limit...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: tsengvane on October 04, 2018, 03:44:42 PM
nice job! thank you a1ex !
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Wintel on October 09, 2018, 11:33:07 AM
Wow!!! A1ex awesome  :o :o :o This is the best thing I've seen today. I can see Magic Lantern working on 5D MKIV soon
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on October 09, 2018, 12:53:17 PM
I wouldn't be so optimistic. There is a very easy coding tutorial following (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12177.0) task posted one month ago, but other 5D4 users don't seem to be very enthusiastic about helping.

Easy coding task: update from 1.0.4 to 1.1.2.

So... it looks like we need to update all our stubs (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/digic6-dumper/platform/5D4.104/stubs.S?fileviewer=file-view-default) to 1.1.2 - who's going to help? I've started by updating the emulation (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/ef2516ff3fb9ab82364a14dd338bca28d07f26f4) - it goes as far as the 80D, including file I/O on the virtual SD card.

I'm not interested in porting ML alone; I'm just exploring stuff in my spare time, hoping to motivate others to jump in. Same for all other recent models.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Raelic on October 09, 2018, 01:02:01 PM
Hi A1ex,

I believe I have the original firmware on my 5d4 (never updated). I am not sure if what I am reading is that we need to update our firmware to test? What do you need from us to help out? I'm fairly new to this other than a basic load ML version on my prior camera (5d mkii), so I might need a little guidance, but I'm willing to help out.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on October 09, 2018, 01:15:32 PM
Testing is already well covered; I'm interested in finding other 5D4 users who can help with coding and reverse engineering.

Guidance can be found by... clicking on the links.

Read, read, read.  When you're tired of reading, have a break, then read some more.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Wintel on October 10, 2018, 10:29:52 AM
I'm not a programmer and know nothing about programming but this is definitely a big achievement. I downloaded the DNG file and the upper half looks amazing and it's only a matter of time before Magic Lantern starts working on the 5D MKIV
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 10, 2018, 10:42:41 AM
and it's only a matter of time before Magic Lantern starts working on the 5D MKIV

Again: No, it's not. ML code doesn't grow on trees.

Or you are talking about "matter of time" in a very extended time frame. Sun entering red giant phase, proton decay and such things.
Given enough time it is not excluded to find ML code growing on a tree. Only trouble: Finding that one.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: bouncyball on October 10, 2018, 12:41:39 PM
:D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Audionut on October 14, 2018, 12:27:52 PM
hoping to motivate others to jump in.

People seem to underestimate this.  Every contribution to the project, helps.  No matter how large or small that contribution is.

proton decay

Nail > head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay
Quote
There is currently no experimental evidence that proton decay occurs.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on October 16, 2018, 10:28:42 AM
Updated the graph from #358 (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.msg206730#msg206730) with:

- readout resolution, guessed from 0xD0006800/6804 (very likely wrong in 4K)
- 1080p30: confirmed previous guesswork (new log from myown)
- 720p120: apparently running at 60 FPS during standby (need to capture some logs while recording);
                  vertical resolution is lower, horizontal is the same as in 1080p; not sure how many of these pixels are active

The easy coding task of updating to 1.1.2 is still delegated to you, the 5D4 users. It's pretty much just pattern matching; you may even use a robot if you prefer. Can be debugged in QEMU.



Edit October 17:

- 4K resolution (same for all frame rates):
  - 4260x2212 (full readout, including black bars; multipliers H:3 V:2)
  - 4104x2166 (active area; vertical size may be different)

- 720p120:
  - vertically squeezed by 3/5, just like all other EOS models
  - 728 valid lines in the half-DNG, unlike 612 in 1080p (why?!)

- Photo mode configuration:
  - timer B: 2278 (from VSizeSetting Time and InitializeHead)
  - timer A: 3778 or 2194 or 1746 from InitializeHead:
     - 3778: LiveView configured at 1724x4548; guessed multipliers H:4 V:1; guessed readout size: 6896x4548; CR2 full size from dcraw: 6880x4544; 5.8 FPS?
     - 2194: LiveView configured at 1724x2273; guessed multipliers H:4 V:2; guessed readout size: 6896x4546; 10.0 FPS?
     - 1746: same as with 2194; 12.57 FPS?! 380 Mp/s?! [take with a grain of salt; not confirmed experimentally]

Code: [Select]
D0006008:  ec10ec1   8910891   6d106d1   8910891
D000600C:  ec10ec1   8910891   6d106d1   8910891
D0006010:      ec1       891       6d1       891
D0006014:      8e4       8e4       8e4       8e4
D0006800:    30002     10002     20002     20002
D0006804: 11c706be   8e206be   8e306be   8e306be

Speculation about video modes not yet covered by logs (x5 and 720p120), from LvHeadControl:
Code: [Select]
               x5?       4K      1080p    720p120    720p60
D0006008:   6e706e7   5a305a3   4b904b9   3830383   4b904b9
D000600C:   6e706e7   5a305a3   4b904b9   3830383   4b904b9
D0006010:       6e7       5a3       4b9       383       4b9
D0006800:     10002     10002     20002     20002     20002
D0006804:   2ec06d6   453058e   2860472   18a0242   1ce0472
Readout: 3496x1494? 4260x2212 2272x1288 2304x784?! 2272x920

D0007888:  3000113   3000128   3000139   300015c    3000139
D000788C:  60004ed   60004d8   60004c7   60004a4    60004c7
D0007890:  9000713   9000728   9000739   900075c    9000739
D0007894:      aed       ad8       ac7       aa4        ac7
D0007898:      1b4       162       11b        8f        11b

Timer B is variable, not configured in LvHeadControl, that's why it wasn't included.

See the related 80D notes (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg200479#msg200479) for some more background info.



Some more half-DNGs (dumps from kichetof, made with LVRV25D4.FIR):

- 1080p25.DNG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/1080p25.DNG) (same at all frame rates, including 60p)
- 720p60.DNG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/720p60.DNG) (vertical squeeze 3/5, 120 FPS in Canon menu, but captured during standby; in this case, LiveView runs at 60 FPS)
- 4K30.DNG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/4K30.DNG) (same at all frame rates)

DNG size is slightly different from readout size; the above raw data was not from the earliest stage in the image processing pipeline.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on November 18, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
Updated LiveView chart with 720p120 and x5 modes, thanks kichetof and myown. Still missing logs 4K25 and 720p100, but no surprises expected in these modes (see 1080p25 vs others).

(https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/lv-resolution/5D4-lv2.png)

Also got some DNGs from 720p120 and x5. The former appears to be dual pixel, the latter appears to be regular, although both of them were saved with the same code (i.e. requesting regular raw data).

- 720p120-daf.DNG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/720p120-daf.DNG) (mystery: why DAF?)
- x5.DNG (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/x5.DNG)  (active width: 3174)

Updated dual pixel notes: 5D4-lv-daf-raw.html (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/dual-pixel/5D4-lv-daf-raw.html) (15MB)

(https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/dual-pixel/flip4.gif)

To confirm the numbers from the above chart, I've got a test for you: let's measure the rolling shutter (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=23040). You don't need any custom firmware, or any particular firmware version; you just need a flickering light with stable frequency, ideally between 100 and 500 Hz. An Arduino board with a LED will do the trick; blinking code available in the linked thread. This test will give a rough approximation of how far the resolution and frame rate can be pushed. The figures from EOS R, some of them matching the above chart, were encouraging.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Idnawsi on November 21, 2018, 08:42:56 AM
i want to take part on this, where can i get the source code? (im not that good with coding but im good at learn something)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: shakenda on November 26, 2018, 06:16:34 PM
You guys are doing amazing work. I'm sure you don't hear the praises as much as you do the complaints and demands, so I just want to say that you've helped make my shooting better for years and I can't express how much I appreciate it. I do hope you come out with ML for the Mark IV, the 5Ds being sort of the flagship quality video DSLRs for so long now. I wish Canon would look at what you guys are doing, take note, and include some of these features in their DSLRs from the start. They could easily be the front-runners in all the DSLR video head-to-heads, but they seem to drop the ball every time. I would be happy with just custom frame overlays, focus assist, and auto restarting. If there were some way to add h.264 to the 4K shooting, that would be awesome, but I'm not expecting it.

Does the ML team have a Go Fund Me or some other donation option? I'd like to give some money towards the Mark IV development.

Thanks again for all your hard work!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on November 26, 2018, 07:06:32 PM
See https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=158
and take last line to heart.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Ilia3101 on November 26, 2018, 11:50:42 PM
What about a Magic Lantern development patreon?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: nodymoha on December 01, 2018, 04:35:52 AM
What you are doing is truly remarkable, a1ex.

I am a 60D Magic lantern user, and now it's time to upgrade to full frame.
Would you advise me, please. Since I am focusing on video.
Should I buy the M-IV and wait for Magic lantern, buy M-III, move to Mirrorless or wait for the next big thing?

Do you know if the C-log upgrade for Mark IV will make it a different version than the regular one?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Dmytro_ua on December 01, 2018, 09:06:37 AM
I am a 60D Magic lantern user, and now it's time to upgrade to full frame.
Would you advise me, please. Since I am focusing on video.
Should I buy the M-IV and wait for Magic lantern, buy M-III, move to Mirrorless or wait for the next big thing?

If you want to start using ML now - buy 5d3.
If you can wait for some uncertain time (maybe a year or never) - then eos R is better choice, than 5d4 in my opinion.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on December 04, 2018, 02:26:03 PM
I know you guys request time instead of money. But could it help if we start a fundraiser to hire extra coders? Not sure what profile is needed for this and if they need a 5D IV body in order to work efficiently. Not sure if you are a freelancer Alex? Or any of the other coders that helped in the past. I know there are no promises or if it is possible. But maybe we could just hire you guys so guys could also work on this during daytime. Again not sure how much money we are talking here. But I guess we could get a decent amount togheter worldwide.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on December 04, 2018, 04:02:27 PM
Do the math:
Porting ML for a new cam takes several hundred hours. (Estimated)
Then it needs to be maintained. Long term = years to come. New builds have to be tested. New firmware has to be ported, again. Some lesser time consumed by this but still work to do.

You may find a developer with
- experience in C and assembler for embedded devices (preferable ARM architecture)
- willing to do reverse engineering without that much support tools (no documentation or support by manufacturer, besides QEMU no emulator available, ...)
- and willing to put hundreds of hours work into it and able to maintain it.

There is a problem measuring the effort, though. You don't want to pay for hours but for results, i suppose. Easy for something you can see as a single product (=final build), not that easy for ML with its rolling release model (kind of) and more difficult to put a price tag on maintaining it.


I'm not going to discuss if dropping out from your bread&butter job is a good idea or not.

BTW: a1ex asked for 5D4 owners to take a risk doing some testing. Response was underwhelming:
5D4... no volunteer yet (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.msg205735#msg205735) willing to assume this risk.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: myown on December 04, 2018, 07:41:33 PM
Naaa at least one is trying to perform some test :)
But also testing needs some time...looking forward for the sensor readout speed with a Arduino and LED.

I hope i can perform the tests this weekend ;)

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on December 05, 2018, 08:33:37 AM
No dropping out of your bread and butter job is not a good idea. Not sure if Alex is a freelancer. So after his current gig ends we could hire him, to work on it though. (if hes a freelancer, I dont know). If 450 people invest 20$, you already got 9000$.

If you need more 5D IV testers, let me know, then I can try to gather some more users on other forums.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: domasa on December 05, 2018, 09:19:55 AM
Add Magic Lantern to Kickstarter or something else?

Target: buy other Canon camera for testing.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on December 05, 2018, 10:07:19 AM
Remarks:
We had forum based fundings in the past without involving crowdfunding sites. No rewards offered of course.
There were requests for specific items by devs.

You may want to consider if the services you may want to offer do have a "customer".
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on December 05, 2018, 11:19:46 AM
A1ex do you own a 5D IV? If not would it help if we buy one for you (as used prices are really cheap nowadays)?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Dmytro_ua on December 05, 2018, 12:45:39 PM
A1ex do you own a 5D IV? If not would it help if we buy one for you (as used prices are really cheap nowadays)?

Isn't it more interesting to invest in developing ML for EOS R? It is mostly the same as 5d4, but with more interesting photo and video features, like: eye tracking, rotated screen, separate video and photo settings, new processor, focus peaking, etc. And due to a new RF mount (fully backward compatible with EF) - more future proof modern camera..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on December 05, 2018, 01:27:44 PM
Isn't it more interesting to invest in developing ML for EOS R? It is mostly the same as 5d4, but with more interesting photo and video features, like: eye tracking, rotated screen, separate video and photo settings, new processor, focus peaking, etc. And due to a new RF mount (fully backward compatible with EF) - more future proof modern camera..
No, the dynamic range of the 5D IV is better. Which is for me the most important aspect to upgrade my 5D III (and 60FPS full hd RAW would be great as well). Most users of magic lantern, dont use autofocus anyway. They use it for more filmic stituations like commercials or shortfilms,  where you have time to create your shots and not your everyday event shooting type gigs.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on December 05, 2018, 01:46:48 PM
A1ex do you own a 5D IV? If not would it help if we buy one for you (as used prices are really cheap nowadays)?

I don't, my latest camera is the 5D3.

However, as mentioned here (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=23084.msg208824#msg208824) and in other threads, my main issue is not lack of hardware. I can barely find time to actually take pictures, and I have plenty of unfinished work with the equipment I've already got. Given this, a camera upgrade doesn't make much sense for me, even if it comes for free, sorry. It would be yet another "brick" to take care of.

If you need more 5D IV testers, let me know, then I can try to gather some more users on other forums.

I'm not exactly looking for "more" of them (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.msg206995#msg206995); there are already at least 3 very good ones, who were active lately. The bottleneck is on my side (i.e. providing test code for them to run, and interpreting the results). That's where enabling the boot flag can - in theory - help: it would allow others to start experimenting with the code and sharing findings on their own. That would be the biggest time saver.

Why "in theory"? Any of you can already start experimenting with the code, just not on real hardware. Yes, it does require time and knowledge. I've tried to share the latter (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/qemu/contrib/qemu/HACKING.rst), but can't help much with the former.

You mean this?

Code: [Select]
./run_canon_fw.sh 5D4,firmware=boot=1
...
[EOS] loading './5D4/ROM1.BIN' to 0xFC000000-0xFDFFFFFF
[MPU] FIXME: no MPU spells for 5D4.
[MPU] FIXME: no MPU button codes for 5D4.
Start address: 0xFC000008
Setting BOOTDISK flag to FFFFFFFF
...
BootLoad
CF Detect High
SLOT_A LOAD OK.
Open file for read : AUTOEXEC.BIN
File size : 0xCAA0
Now jump to AUTOEXEC.BIN!!
...

Ta Da!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4736/27316050809_ecb413421e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HBPUeg)

This particular test (enabling the boot flag) is a little more risky (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19737.msg205784#msg205784) than all the others, because it will modify the ROM. So far all other models were OK (including 5DS, 7D2, 80D, 750D, 760D and also a 200D tested privately), but obviously that's not a guarantee. Of course, if anything goes wrong, I'll do my best to recover it, but that's not a guarantee either.

It would be unreasonable to force this test on somebody not prepared to take this risk, so I'm just waiting for a volunteer to come up. Whether that would happen today or in 5 years, for me it's the same. I've got plenty of other stuff to explore, either way.

Isn't it more interesting to invest in developing ML for EOS R?

Look over here (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=22770.0).

I'm investigating all these new models, with the goal of providing a starting point for other developers. So far, this goal was completed for 80D (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg199134#msg199134), but it doesn't look like they are making good use of it (unfortunately). I'm almost there with 5D4 (boot flag is the only thing missing), 200D/800D/77D/6D2 & M50 (all scheduled for holidays), and 7D2/5DS (need to sit down and debug them). The 750D/760D already have FIR files for enabling the boot flag, only some stubs missing to reach the same stage as 80D; these are straightforward, so they were intentionally left as an exercise for other users/developers. EOS R has to wait.

I'm not talking about a full ML port; I'm only considering a proof of concept that would allow anyone with basic coding skills to get started. For example, 80D owners are already able (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg206204#msg206204) to hardcode an intervalometer like this:
Code: [Select]
for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
{
     call("Release");
     msleep(10000);
}

And, as you could see in the previous posts, saving raw Bayer data from LiveView is also straightforward.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Parrott65 on December 06, 2018, 06:06:26 PM
Just a general question from someone who has never used "RAW" before....If you are able to get the 5DM4 to ultimately shoot 4K in RAW, does that mean it will be able to be recorded onto an external recorder or only on the CF and SD cards? As you know, it currently won't let you record 4K onto an external recorder. So, I was wondering if this would change that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rinski on December 09, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
Hello, I think that the 5d4 is the successor of the 5d3 and it would be a pity if the firmware it deserves was not developed, with a simultaneous recording distributed as a minimum cf + sd of 130 mb / s 3.8k of 10 or 12 bits of recording continues, and dumped to ssd with output 3.0 to 500 mb / s for the dual rawvideo 7k which is much more economical than the sdxc II and cfast 2.0.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: cboillot on December 09, 2018, 07:47:49 PM
Hi all,

Well, I'm new on this forum and I first want to thank you a lot for all the wonderful job you're doing. ML is...Magic.
I'm currently owning a 6D but will upgrade to a 5D soon, mark iii or iv.
Just wondering about your thoughts on the mark iv. There is obvisouly more Dynamic range comparing to the mark iii but apart from this, what can justify this very costly update ? As there is no CF Fast, we will still be very limited for 4K (and higher) record.
Or am I missing something ?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on December 10, 2018, 02:28:32 PM
Hi all,

Well, I'm new on this forum and I first want to thank you a lot for all the wonderful job you're doing. ML is...Magic.
I'm currently owning a 6D but will upgrade to a 5D soon, mark iii or iv.
Just wondering about your thoughts on the mark iv. There is obvisouly more Dynamic range comparing to the mark iii but apart from this, what can justify this very costly update ? As there is no CF Fast, we will still be very limited for 4K (and higher) record.
Or am I missing something ?

Depends on what are you going to do. There's no ML for IV atm, so you can shot with it as is. III has ML so you can shot in RAW and get that DR. If you don't need AF in video, III with ML RAW has much better image quality. But for future obviously, IV with ML RAW will knockout any camera with $6000 and lower.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rinski on December 10, 2018, 04:40:01 PM
In 2013 there was some attempt of magic latern to record in a ssd mercury owc with a cf card when the 5d3, only had port of usb 2.0, the direct recording like for example of an ssd t5 samsung of 530 mb / s could be interned with the usb 3.0 output?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on December 11, 2018, 01:39:41 PM
This particular test (enabling the boot flag) is a little more risky (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19737.msg205784#msg205784) than all the others, because it will modify the ROM. So far all other models were OK (including 5DS, 7D2, 80D, 750D, 760D and also a 200D tested privately), but obviously that's not a guarantee. Of course, if anything goes wrong, I'll do my best to recover it, but that's not a guarantee either.
Ok greats lets get this going.  How can I perform this test? Exactly? What dump should I download? Install it on a CF/SD card, plug it in a 5D IV, boot it? And thats it? Or are there some extra steps?

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on December 11, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
If you click the quoted link, you'll see some details about this process, including how to try and review it in QEMU. To try it on the camera, I need to prepare a custom FIR; this being a somewhat risky process, I'm not going to make it available for everyone without testing.

This step will let you compile current ML code from source and run it as "autoexec.bin", rather than FIR. Expect outcomes similar to previous FIRs, i.e. the proof of concept code (e.g. logging, saving the raw data necessary for DNG frames in LiveView, possibly taking still pictures and so on).

One thing I forgot to mention: I'm only prepared to run this test on firmware 1.0.4. For latest version, the following task is still open:

There is a very easy coding tutorial following (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12177.0) task [...]

Easy coding task: update from 1.0.4 to 1.1.2.

Maybe some of you can find some time to look into it during the holidays, as I've got plenty of other stuff to catch up with.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on December 11, 2018, 08:48:00 PM
If you click the quoted link, you'll see some details about this process, including how to try and review it in QEMU. To try it on the camera, I need to prepare a custom FIR; this being a somewhat risky process, I'm not going to make it available for everyone without testing.

This step will let you compile current ML code from source and run it as "autoexec.bin", rather than FIR. Expect outcomes similar to previous FIRs, i.e. the proof of concept code (e.g. logging, saving the raw data necessary for DNG frames in LiveView, possibly taking still pictures and so on).

One thing I forgot to mention: I'm only prepared to run this test on firmware 1.0.4. For latest version, the following task is still open:


Maybe some of you can find some time to look into it during the holidays, as I've got plenty of other stuff to catch up with.

Yeah I dont have acces to QEMU. But I am trying to find a 5D IV with 1.0.4 on it where I can run this test on.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on December 11, 2018, 10:13:12 PM
Yeah I dont have acces to QEMU.

Access to QEMU is not restricted (https://twitter.com/autoexec_bin/status/913530810686418944), just FYI (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16012.msg191686#msg191686).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rinski on December 18, 2018, 08:48:29 PM
Blackmagic raw códec free , option, 112 mb/s + 79 mb /s CF+sd ?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on December 18, 2018, 09:04:22 PM
Features that are NOT possible - please don't request them (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=950.msg1163#msg1163)
Quote
Custom codecs
Codecs are not implemented on the general-purpose ARM processor. We can only use what Canon has already included in hardware (H.264, JPEG, LJ92) and fine-tuned their parameters (such as the H.264 bit rate).

The lossless compression used for raw video is the same "codec" Canon uses for CR2. The same processing path (codenamed JPCORE) might be able to handle (M)JPEG. However, we cannot implement additional codecs (such as H.265, JPEG2000 or ProRes). Even if these might be able to run on Canon's image processing hardware, we simply don't know where to start.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on January 01, 2019, 12:00:03 AM
5D4... no volunteer yet (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.msg205735#msg205735) willing to assume this risk.

I don't have time to scrub through 500 forums to get the answer right now, but I shoot 5Div and M50, have crazy good insurance, and NEED less crop, less rolling shutter, focus peaking, and every MagicLantern godsend. I can take the risk. Gimme this responsibility pls.

OK, I'll bite. Do you happen to also run firmware 1.0.4 on the 5D4? Otherwise it may take a little longer.

=>

(https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/BOOTF5D4.JPG)

8)



Enabling the boot flag

Please find the FIR to enable the boot flag on the 5D Mark IV:

BOOTF5D4.FIR (https://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/BOOTF5D4.FIR) (works on any*) firmware version; source code (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/c01979311c9743f513347ef602e08ac641a06961/src/reboot.c?fileviewer=file-view-default#reboot.c-1724)).

This will modify your camera.

*) The boot flag enabling procedure is firmware-agnostic (it runs from bootloader, so it's compatible with any Canon firmware version). However, what you can do afterwards may be affected by Canon firmware version; read on.

To disable the boot flag: see these notes (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg204717#msg204717).


Warranty

If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. Sorry.


What to do with it?

After enabling the boot flag on your camera, you may run:

a) with any firmware version:

- the portable display test (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14732.0) (copy autoexec.bin and make your card bootable (https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/install#installing_magic_lantern_on_other_cards) - EosCard/MacBoot/make_bootable.sh)
- the portable ROM dumper (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16534.0) (you must format the card to a very small size, or dd this 256MB image (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/qemu/contrib/qemu/sd.img.xz) - howto (https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi-tutorials/17789160-backing-up-and-restoring-your-raspberry-pis-sd-card) - solved!)
- anything compiled from the recovery (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/branch/recovery) branch, platform/portable.000 (it runs from bootloader context); check Makefile.user.default for options.

b) with firmware 1.0.4 only:

(if in doubt, upgrade to this one (https://pel.hu/down/eos5d4-v104-win.zip), as there are some different flavors of 1.0.4 out there)

- the digic6-dumper (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/branch/digic6-dumper) branch (see minimal-d6.c (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/digic6-dumper/src/minimal-d6.c) for initial experiments, including code for saving LiveView RAW dumps)

- example code to get started - a simple intervalometer (not tested, previous attempts did not work on this model, but worked on 80D, 200D, M50 etc):
Code: [Select]
    /* this goes into dump_task in minimal-d6.c (digic6-dumper branch) */
    for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
    {
        call("Release");
        msleep(10000);
    }

- simple FPS override (not tested):
Code: [Select]
    msleep(10000);   /* expecting user to start the camera in LiveView */
    MEM(0xD0006008) = 0x0FFF0FFF;   /* Timer A: default: 0x4b904b9 in 1080p, 0x5a305a3 in 4K */
    /* resulting frame rate, e.g. for 1080p25: 25 * (0x4B9+1) / (0xFFF+1) = 7.385 FPS */
    /* also try higher values, such as 0x1FFF1FFF, 0x2FFF2FFF etc, or do the math for desired frame rate */
    /* you might also have to change 0xd000600c (default 0x4b904b9 in 1080p) and 0xd0006010 (default 0x4b9 in 1080p) */

TODO

- [extremely easy] find out whether photo capture works (this didn't work from FIR; just try the intervalometer sample code)
- [extremely easy] play around with FPS and resolution overriding registers; document what works and what not
- [easy, important] update the codebase to 1.1.2 (easy coding tutorial following (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12177.0) task, still open, can be debugged in QEMU)
- [easy] log various things in Canon firmware (such as photo capture, entering LiveView); the digic6-dumper branch has logging enabled by default.
- [moderate, important] figure out how to print things on the screen (look up 5DS experiments, posts from Ant123 and read the CHDK threads on this topic)
- [moderate?] fix the emulator to run these things properly
- [moderate?] port io_trace (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2388.msg196941#msg196941) to ARMv7 (can be debugged in QEMU)
- [moderate] try to understand the communication between the two cores (main and AE)
- [hard] understand the Omar (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.msg194424#msg194424) secondary core (it appears to handle the image capture pipeline)

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on January 01, 2019, 03:26:19 AM
WOW.. @a1ex closing the year strong  :)  Happy New Years Team Magic Lantern. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: wadehome on January 01, 2019, 03:28:24 AM
If someone can put together the code for the intervalometer and the FPS override, I can test it out on my 5Div!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: thekreative on January 01, 2019, 04:25:11 AM
a1ex thanks for all your work and have a happy New Year...... Time to get testing.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Danne on January 01, 2019, 04:42:31 AM
Very nice indeed!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on January 02, 2019, 06:49:02 PM
Thanks guys! Happy NY!!!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: banertop on January 03, 2019, 12:47:47 AM
good work guys! Again!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: ThingsChange on January 05, 2019, 08:17:53 AM
Joined the forum just to thank a1ex and the other testers/coders for their great work.  Thanks everyone and happy new year!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: The_Aussie_Photoguy on January 11, 2019, 01:14:42 AM
Just joined the forum officially after many years of use.

I was hoping the 5d Mkiv kit would be out, I already miss ML on it after my upgrade.

The features you guys are developing will really make this camera an absolute beast. I am looking forward to seeing it upon completion.
Unfortunately I don't have the paycheck to offer my Mkiv up. But once there is a semi stable build happy to provide as much feedback as possible.

Keep up the solid work team!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: djfr971 on January 12, 2019, 12:28:32 AM
Hello guys! Happy New year! Thanks for this wonderful news. I’ve already installed it on my 60D with the classic method but I would like to know if someone has successfully installed it on the 5D mack4. If someone did and it’s working properly. Sorry for those stupides questions!
Thank you .
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Seanc on January 19, 2019, 10:45:29 AM
I’ve already installed it on my 60D with the classic method but I would like to know if someone has successfully installed it on the 5D mack4.
Not even close. This is only the first step on the path to being able to begin work, though a very important one.

Thanks A1ex!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on January 27, 2019, 11:44:03 PM
The latest 80D experiment (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg211065#msg211065) can be also ran on 5D4 1.0.4, without any changes.

That was just FYI, as I don't have high hopes anyone is going to run the test on this camera. The previous tests (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17695.msg209985#msg209985) were a lot easier to run, but nobody tried them yet, to my knowledge.

Edit: the experiment was successful on 80D.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: robotron on January 28, 2019, 02:03:28 PM
Hi there,

this is my first post here, but I've been following both the 80D and the 5D IV threads for a little while now, since I just upgraded from an 80D to a 5D IV.
I'm a computer science student and am willing to spend some time on this, and think I could help a little bit. My 5D IV runs v1.1.2, so I'll start by updating the codebase to the new version.
However, I've got finals coming up in a few weeks and won't be able to work on this until late February.

Hope I'll be able to help!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rinski on January 28, 2019, 03:41:05 PM
Hello, for little more than 1000 dollars you can buy a 5d4 second hand for testing, should not disappear the hopes of a raw video better than the 5d3 has.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: rinski on January 28, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
live magic latern free
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on January 29, 2019, 02:50:44 PM
Hello, for little more than 1000 dollars you can buy a 5d4 second hand for testing, should not disappear the hopes of a raw video better than the 5d3 has.
Thank you.
Over here they are still going around 1800€'s.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: zerocool22 on January 29, 2019, 02:50:55 PM
Hi there,

this is my first post here, but I've been following both the 80D and the 5D IV threads for a little while now, since I just upgraded from an 80D to a 5D IV.
I'm a computer science student and am willing to spend some time on this, and think I could help a little bit. My 5D IV runs v1.1.2, so I'll start by updating the codebase to the new version.
However, I've got finals coming up in a few weeks and won't be able to work on this until late February.

Hope I'll be able to help!
Awesome news! Having big hopes on you robotron!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Walter Schulz on January 29, 2019, 02:58:24 PM
Over here they are still going around 1800€'s.

Please do not feed the trolls.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on February 04, 2019, 02:49:13 PM
Hi there,

this is my first post here, but I've been following both the 80D and the 5D IV threads for a little while now, since I just upgraded from an 80D to a 5D IV.
I'm a computer science student and am willing to spend some time on this, and think I could help a little bit. My 5D IV runs v1.1.2, so I'll start by updating the codebase to the new version.
However, I've got finals coming up in a few weeks and won't be able to work on this until late February.

Hope I'll be able to help!

Just do not fade out as previous ppl! Also take a look in 80D thread, there's an actual progress.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: legreve on February 12, 2019, 08:33:56 AM
How big of a chance is there to brick the camera if experimenting with the firmware and code?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on February 12, 2019, 10:17:15 AM
It very much depends on what you are trying to do.

The code sequences suggested in reply #397 should be quite safe. Logging code was already tested on 5D4 (an earlier version, not the latest codebase), so it should be OK, too. Other code sequences (e.g. found in 80D thread) should be OK as long as they don't use hardcoded pointers. If in doubt, ask.

In particular, stay away from EraseSectorOfRom and similar (I'm pretty sure you will), don't attempt to change properties yet (the proof of concept code doesn't include any backend for that) and try not to overwrite Canon's data structures (double-check any pointers you use for writing). Canon firmware saves some of their settings at shutdown by reflashing the main ROM (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/pull-requests/825/prevent-canon-settings-from-being-saved/diff), so you'll want to be extra careful not to overwrite their data structures.

If something goes really wrong, you have the boot flag enabled, so you will still be able to run diagnostic code on the camera (unless you somehow manage to erase the bootloader... extremely unlikely). From there, I can inspect the (non-booting) ROM, debug it in QEMU, reflash it with a good copy and so on. I did that on some other models (recently on 5D3 and 70D), but... let's hope we'll never get there. Worst case: JTAG (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=22030.0) and UART (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7531) (I've never tried these on physical hardware).

A while ago I wrote a short guide on safety (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3624.0), that I should update.

On 80D, I have used some hardcoded pointers (such as 0x30000000, 0x28000000 and so on). Do not use them; they are not valid on any other camera. Rather, follow the source code comments and run the test code to find out what memory areas appear to be free on your camera, and use those instead. In any case, these pointers are well above DryOS and general-purpose memory buffers; these are managed by RscMgr (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5071.msg186879#msg186879) and used for things like image capture, processing, LiveView and others. I highly doubt writing into these by mistake could result in permanent camera damage, but I still prefer to triple-check before using them.

Writing into the display buffer is safe (and hopefully that's all you need for a Hello World), but first you need to know its address. It's not going to be the same as on 80D (or other models). This can be found either from a RAM dump (there are tutorials around the 'net), or from diagnostic logs. The MMIO registers are also different, so what worked on 80D is going to require some (hopefully minor) changes.

To summarize, the next steps are:
- try the code sequences from reply #397 [easy]
- get a RAM dump and identify the image buffers [easy]
- you can attempt to print things on the screen at this stage, but I prefer to know what I'm doing, so...
- run this experiment (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg211065#msg211065) to find possibly unused memory areas (this was linked in reply #408)
- update log-d6.c and io_trace.c with the hardcoded memory buffers found at previous step
- enable LOG_EARLY_STARTUP in log-d6.h
- also enable io_trace (see 80D Makefile)
- this will give you a fairly complete startup log (debug messages + interrupts + MPU messages + MMIO activity)
- from this log, we will be able to see how the display buffer is configured (for Hello World) and many other details that will be useful later.
- Hello World!
- afterwards, getting an initial ML port (with basic functionality) should be relatively straightforward.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: Ford1080 on February 15, 2019, 07:34:53 AM
I used ML on 7D, now have 5Div.  I would love to help but I have no idea what I’m doing with any of the coding stuff - and have no time right now.

I’ll be watching this thread tho and I if find the time to figure out various tasks, I’ll do whatever.

Thank you guys!!!!!   Especially A1ex and g3ggo.  Thanks for your work on 7D!!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on February 17, 2019, 12:12:37 PM
I finally found some time to update the rest of the stubs for 1.1.2 (https://bitbucket.org/chris_miller/ml-fork/commits/branch/5d4-112). I've hit a problem getting further though.

Please find the FIR to enable the boot flag on the 5D Mark IV:

BOOTF5D4.FIR (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/BOOTF5D4.FIR) (works on any*) firmware version; source code (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/03c69fc37aaa53a33ec29e5179e8681f9382ddad)).

The above doesn't work on 1.1.2. When I try to run it I get "Firmware older than Ver 1.1.2 is on memory card. Delete old file and update using a later verison". a1ex, could you please create a BOOTF5D4.FIR with a higher version number for me to try?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: a1ex on February 17, 2019, 01:21:01 PM
Done. I don't get this error in QEMU, so it's very easy to overlook it. Also updated the portable ROM dumper (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16534.0).

Size of autoexec.bin is OK; it won't load any modules. Just copy it on the card; it doesn't require any data files either.

My advice is to copy it on the virtual card first, in QEMU, as that will give you a way to debug it. To cross-check, if you compile the current code from digic6-dumper (on 1.0.4) and run it in QEMU, it will save a log on the virtual card.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on February 17, 2019, 01:43:36 PM
Thanks a1ex, the updated BOOTF5D4.FIR and ROM dumper are both now working fine on 1.1.2. I'm happy to report that the bootflag being enabled on the 5D4 doesn't seem to introduce nearly as much lag as it does on the 5D3.

Logging on the physical camera with 1.1.2 works using the code from my 5d4-112 branch, as does the intervalometer. I'll generate more/better logs and chip away at the various other outstanding tasks (as per replies #397, #417, 80D thread #468) when I can, but my spare time is sadly very limited so anyone else willing to join in is most welcome to do so.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: KelvinK on February 18, 2019, 11:55:58 AM
@chris_overseas what's going to be next?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV
Post by: chris_overseas on February 20, 2019, 01:46:41 AM
I scanned for free memory regions (as per the 80D (https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17360.msg211248#msg211248)). The log file fills up extremely quickly on the 5D4 even with filtering, so I hacked the logging code a bit so the memory results overwrite the start of the log file instead of disappear off the end. Across 4 attempts I found these common unused areas:

Code: [Select]
42600000-42FFFFFF = 10MB
4B100000-4BCFFFFF = 12MB
5D100000-5D6FFFFF = 6MB
60B00000-614FFFFF = 10MB
7C500000-7D0FFFFF = 12MB

The areas aren't as big as the 80D unfortunately, nevertheless I managed to capture a few 12MB logs here using 0x7C500000: http://www.redyeti.net/test/5d4-112-logs-4.7z

I tried to get an MMIO log but my first/only attempt came up empty, will hopefully have time to try that again in a couple of days.