I've got a strange problem in Resolve. The Image
in Resolve looks "washed out" / grey. but when i render it.. it looks fine.
Here is a screenshot:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve.jpg)
i rendered a uncompressed avi file. So no codec / compression algoryhtm which
changes the colors or something. Any idea how to fix it?
btw. when i start Resolve i've got the "Quicktime thing not found". (but i've got quicktime)
Might that be the problem?
Interesting, I have the opposite problem with Resolve on Mac. Looks fine in the viewer but washed out in the rendered version.
Check your color management settings. If you went mucking about with them at some point you could've mucked something up
Two things - the GUI monitor is not color managed and can't really be trusted. You need to be working with external, calibrated monitor to be sure that what you see is what you get and secondly it looks like a legal vs full range levels problem to me. Try changing the levels setting to data levels in the main setup panel.
@Andy600. Off topic but I have some similar issue with EXR files. When previewed on mac and also opened up in photoshop gamma is way brighter than when imported to DaVinci resolve. Tried imagemagick and DaVinci resolve EXR output and both shows a different gamma in photoshop than in DR. Unfortunately on the road but could share some example files tonight.
@Andy600: I've changed the level settings to data levels... but there is no change.
Here is another screenshot:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve2.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve2.jpg)
Maybe the "preview" is not washed out. (in resolve i made a test and crushed the blacks, and also lighten up the
image to pure white... make a screenshot and checked the color in Photoshop. Its 100% black and 100% white)
So the preview in Resolve is not "washed out". But in the final rendering the blacks are more "crushed".
The image has more contrast. (as you can see in the screenshot). I'm using ML DNG Files from Canon 50D. Convertet
with MLViewer.
to me... it doesn't look like "washed" out anymore. Becaue i get 100% black and 100% whiote in Resolve.
Its more that in the uncompressed output file... somehow the "dynmaic range" is gone. And the blacks are "crushed".
I did another test. Here is a screenshot:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve3.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve3.jpg)
1. I took the DNG Files into AE and rendered an"uncompressed avi" file.
2. I took that avi file into Davinci Resove. So far so good. The file looks good in AE, looks good in my Media Player Classic / VLC, and looks good in Davinci Resovle. perfect.
3. After i rendered that file with Davinci Resolve... (as mpeg4, h264, or uncompressed) the blacks are crushed, whites are brighten up, skin tones looks different, etc.
As you can see in the screenshot. So it has nothing to do with the DNG Files.
The Preview in Resolve is also fine. 100% accurate.
Only the last step... rendering in Resolve... "changes" the colors. I have no idea
how to fix that.
No comment on the color management settings in resolve...?
sorry. somehow forget about your comment... cause i think i checked all the settings from top to buttom. Tomorrow i will have a closer look at the "color management settings".
Quote from: Flocksock on June 01, 2016, 01:30:06 AM
i rendered a uncompressed avi file. So no codec / compression algoryhtm which
changes the colors or something.
Ah, kemosabe, but even an uncompressed avi has a color space - even if it's "undefined".
My money is on mixed or unassigned color spaces or your player gamma. I know on a Mac that there's a "feature" in Resolve called "use Mac display color profile". If there's a similar thing on Win then I'd uncheck that for starters.
Find out what color space your exported AVI is in (sRGB / Adobe RGB / Generic RGB / Rec.709 / Undefined etc). If it's undefined then perhaps the Windows playback program you're using is _assuming_ it's in X color space (probably sRGB?) and is interpreting it as such even though it's in Y?
On a Mac I know that the Quick Time player will playback MOV files in the wrong gamma. It's a known problem that's been around for years. Not sure what playback app you're using but if it's QT player you could look into playing your footage through some other player such as VLC to check.
Just some ideas. No idea if they're applicable as I haven't been on Win for years I'm afraid.
Mark.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is a known problem with QuickTime messing up the colors when rendering. Some software has found a way around it. Resolve hasn't. I had the same issue as ddelreal and found the only way around it was to render to AVI uncompressed YUV and then compress to h264 with libx264.
@andy600:
To my understanding, the GUI vs. dedicated (calibrated) monitor only applies when viewing the render on a different system. When I use the GUI viewer for grading and then view the render on the same system and the same monitor that ran the GUI viewer, the render should look identical to the GUI viewer.
@sgofferj
That's good to know, thanks for the heads up.
Here's a post of William Aleman in the BMD forums about that: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6557&p=281742#p281622
3 posts above is my test results.
Color Management , you need to learn more about it .
I uses Resolve on Mac & Win7 PC and never had a problem with wash out color , but there again I monitor though my
blackmagic USB 3.0 ultra studio sdi on the HDMI connection to Panasonic plasma calibrated with Datacolor Colorimeter .
This is the Only way you know you are 100% sure , as @Andy600 Said "You can not relay on GUI monitor period .
Computer monitors run in different Color & Gamma Space , then legal broadcast color .
Quote from: sgofferj on June 03, 2016, 06:58:08 AM
There is a known problem with QuickTime messing up the colors when rendering.
Really , I think you my be thinking about gamma shift when to render a image sequence thought QT Pro Player (that's known)
When I'm in Resolve win7 I use QT Blackmagic RGB Codec all the time Very good codec or the AJA QT uncompressed codec .
So what I'm saying is It doesn't matter what codec you use to export to as master it's all basically the same .
You must remember you are going from linear color space to compressed color space even in the uncompressed AVI (and that a whole story by it's self, 8bit,10bit,12bit,16bit , Log space)
I really have to disagrees with what you are saying , Sorry.
Edit: Even when I plug my Ultra Studio in to a standard HDMI (rec709 16-235) HDTV LED I get the same results as my Plasma @ Full range 0-255
Not to sure if you QT in PC is the same as Mac encoding , bit you can disable Gamma Correction in the MAC QT encoder but I never needed to do this on the PC Wins7
I think, you are missing the point :). A calibrated monitor through a dedicated output guarantees a consistent result on different viewing systems (minus user settings) but as I said, I was talking about viewing the render result on the same monitor on the same system that I used the GUI monitor on. In that case, the render result should look identical to what you see in the GUI viewer - minus compression loss, of course.
I did a ton of tests and I found that when I render to any Quicktime format, I see a Gamma shift in the render, even when I render to uncompressed YUV with Quicktime. However, when I render to uncompressed YUV AVI, I do NOT see any Gama shift. In that case, the render looks exactly like the preview in the GUI viewer.
According to what was written by others in the BMD forum and what I found myself through Google, this problem in Quicktime is known since 2010! There's even well known workarounds on MAC using Apple Compressor.
Check your rendering 'Data levels' settings in the Deliver page. It's likely set to Auto but try rendering a short clip with video levels and again with data levels.
Yes, there is a long running issue with QT but AFAIK it is a H.264 and QT Player issue and besides, the QT player should be uninstalled for security reasons now). I use DNxHD for HD and DNxHR for 4K when rendering in Windows and wish BM would add avi support for the codecs. If you're getting identical results with YUV .avi why not use that? - you don't have to use Quicktime.
What exactly are you delivering for? or is this for mastering?
@Danne - Yes, it's the same story with EXR in other apps. In AE you can assign an ICC color profile to an EXR (control it's interpretation) but not, I believe, in PS although I haven't really worked with EXR in PS. I need to do some research into this - there may be something in the proofing settings that can be used.
That is what,s puzzling me. Even if I would change icc profiles gamma starting point is still way off compared to DaVinci resolve starting point. How can I match input source exactly between programs? Here,s an example EXR file.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4tCJMlOYfirdEdvZElwdzlVYXM/view?usp=sharing
@Danne - I think it's likely that getting the exact same result across all apps is a tall order due to the different color management regimes and quirks of individual apps - not all app devs follow guidelines and standards to the letter. I did however, manage to get a good match between Resolve and AE with EXR files in ACES using custom-built ICC profiles but I haven't tried them in PS yet. I'll take a proper look when I have some time - snowed under with work at the moment.
@Andy600:
Jep, that's what I'm doing mostly - rendering to AVI and then using ffmpeg and libx264 for compressing. I'm mostly delivering for YouTube at the moment.
I tried forcing data levels and the render looks more like the GUI viewer bit then with more clipped highlights.
1. I´m using an EIZO Monitor. But i think it doesn't matter. Even if you work on some cheap monitor.. and you
see a difference with the output file you can take a screenshot and check the colors in photoshop. To make it clear:
I am using ONE Monitor. Not two.. and the screenshots are from the same monitor.
2. I´m not using Quicktime. I checked the rendered file in Media Player Classic, VLC Player and Quicktime. It looks the same. I also checked my NVIDIA Card Settings.
3. I rendered "uncompressed YUV", "uncompressed RGB", "mpeg4", "DNxHD", DNxHR", "h264", etc... all with the same results.
I allways looks like this:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve3.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve3.jpg)
@cmccullum: what should i do in the "color management settings"? I can only change the colorspace in
the timeline... but thats not the problem. The footage in the timeline looks fine! not washed out. It
looks exactly like the footage i imported. But the rendered file looks "crushed". "Broadcast save" is OFF.
And no LUTS selected.
@Andy600: You wrote i should check "'Data levels' settings in the Deliver page". It was on "auto"
I tested "data level" mode and "video level" mode. Here is the result:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg)
I get better results with "video" levels.. but its still "crushed".
As I wrote before. The Input video looks 100% perfect in the Resolve timeline.
But the output file is still to dark. Its a bit better when using "video mode".
but it should be 100% correct. not 99% correct. When i render an uncompressed file in AE or Premiere
(with no color grading) the output file looks exact the same as the input file. That is what i'm testing
right now with Davinci Resolve. And i don't get it why the image is getting "crushed".
@Andy600. Seems icc handling is pretty much the same in photoshop AE and lightroom. Unfortunately ACR won,t let you choose any but their four preset profiles.
The lack of standard in color management seems the main reason not to work with exr except than with niched projects that fully understand how to integrate and work this format. Producing 32-bit exr from 14-bit dng files is maybe overkill anyway.
Seems photoshop is pushing exr files to gamma 2.2 when it should be linear 1.0. Then DaVinci Resolve is respecting linear output for exr format.
A "fix" is to set midpoint to 0.45 to get back to linear.
http://forums.cgarchitect.com/80010-saving-exr-gamma-settings.html
QuoteIf you were comping your EXR's you'd want them to remain linear, and as such they shall appear too dark. But you want to do the maths on them like this. To see what you are getting as a result, you would put a gamma of 2.2 on top of the comp. In PS I would do this with a levels adjustment layer at the top of the stack. The mid point is set to zero by default, but you can type in 2.2 (or 0.45 if required) to adjust the gamma output.
If you're not concerned with linear compositing, it's still useful to know.
Closer
Photoshop
(http://s33.postimg.org/hrn6uoasf/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_21_47_02.png)
DaVinci Resolve
(http://s33.postimg.org/v9u36ymxr/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_21_48_30.png)
Some more stuff in AE. By selecting Preserve RGB(interpret footage) the output seems linear.
(http://s33.postimg.org/6f63a81pb/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_22_05_46.png)
(http://s33.postimg.org/meoqtrxr3/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_22_06_42.png)
Changing color settings in AE as well
(http://s33.postimg.org/6pl033btr/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_22_13_16.png)
Pretty much matches DaVinci Resolve output
After effects
(http://s33.postimg.org/t2xc3n25b/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_22_12_42.png)
Davinci Resolve
(http://s33.postimg.org/v9u36ymxr/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_21_48_30.png)
Set to camera RGB profile seems even closer
(http://s33.postimg.org/9xpj3oalb/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_22_22_20.png)
In photoshop you can set RGB to convert to actual rgb and it will show the correct linear gamma
(http://s33.postimg.org/xzw74lbcf/Screen_Shot_2016_06_04_at_08_50_20.png)
@Danne - Instead of setting gamma to .45 try the inverse of the sRGB transfer function (as a lut). I'll bet it matches precisely.
Not sure how to create inverse luts but I added the sRGB to linear lut from VFX IO(Davinci Resolve) lut to the clip in AE and I assume it,s the same thing? Looks right to me :)
(http://s33.postimg.org/6z3hm66r3/Screen_Shot_2016_06_03_at_22_37_26.png)
"pushing exr files to gamma 2.2"? Inverse Luts? what?
Guys... why not start a new thread about "exr" / "icc" /"sRGB" / "Luts" / "ACR", etc...
#justsayin #nohate
;)
@Flocksock Yes I agree and apologies for going well off topic.
I posted the problem also on blackmagic forum. But no answer so far.
Someone wants me to put the rendered Videofile back into resolve.
So i did that.
Here is a split screen timeline Image. Original Footage + Rendered file (uncompressed YUV 10 bit.avi)
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve5.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve5.jpg)
I don't get it. I pressed every single button in the render settings... and try every format.
i rendered 10, 20 videofiles. they all looks the same. all "crushed". Should i test Resolve 11, instead of Resolve 12.
I have no idea how to fix it. grrrrrr.
I had better results in 10 and 11. Problems began with 12 and even worse in 12.5 beta.
@ddelreal - Although there have been some very big changes in v12+ I can't see anything that would make things worse than previous versions other than a small hike in processor usage. If you're having problems with V12 or 12.5 betas it's likely down to configuration.
@Flocksock - In reply #14 you said .avi was exactly the same as the preview with no crushed blacks but your last image is obviously different!? Have you maybe changed something since #14? I'm still guessing it's a video/data levels issue. Try what Walter Volpatto suggested on the BMD Forum and render a few frames to DPX, TIFF or EXR to see if the problem persists. Forget Quicktime for the moment.
@Andy600: No. i did not. User "sgofferj" wrote: "when I render to uncompressed YUV AVI, I do NOT see any Gama shift".
In my case.. i tried every unompressed option. Avi and quicktime. And it looked bad.
I don´t think its a video/data level issue.. becaue i testet it here:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg)
video level = crushed video look
data level = even more crushed look
Tomorrow or on sunday i will test dpx and tiff. If that doesn´t work i will reinstall Resolve 12.
Than also try 12.5 beta. And after this i try to find an Old version. "Resolve 11"... and try this.
EDIT: Last one thing. I have Quicktime. But when i start Resolve .. Resolve tells me that "Quick time decoder initilization failed" But i don´t give a shit. because i can use resolve. But maybe... Resolve need the "Quick time decoder initilization" thing for rendering. or fucks up my renderings because of that. i don´t know. I should fix that, too... before deinstall Resolve 12.
Quote from: Danne on June 03, 2016, 10:41:58 PM
Not sure how to create inverse luts but I added the sRGB to linear lut from VFX IO(Davinci Resolve) lut to the clip in AE and I assume it,s the same thing? Looks right to me :)
Damn Danne's at it once again (Thanks @Flocksock) for allowing us to take over your thread (and for good reasons) as it'll not only help solve your color issues being washed out (I still believe it'll come down to your delivery settings within DR) but also help the rest of us to narrow down certain so called bugs related to 32-bit EXR files (overkill or not) in which I think it's still definitely worth to dive into and investigate furthermore.
Also Thanks to @Andy600 for getting back into the game with us. It's such a great feeling having you on board with us again after your much deserved hiatus! ;)
@Flocksock -- Also ran into this recent thread from the BM Forum Re: 'Quicktime decoder initialization failure' which seems interesting and may help on your end?
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=48017
Sorry for off topic. Hope you solve the issue.
You could always put your images through Blender's compositor to process the input linearly (serving out correctly marked exr's, or videos, for DaVinci, etc.) - lots of tutorials covering the basics, here's the relevant bit (scroll down to Image Files): https://www.blender.org/manual/render/post_process/cm_and_exposure.html
Just a suggestion :)
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
@so-rose , finally someone that understands the power of Blender ! I been using Blender off and on for the last few years , I even bought there DVD tutorial to support them financially.
To all users of QT on Windows OS , Just doing some research on the security vulnerability It seem the real problem is the QT Player and you must visit a malicious page or open a malicious file.
Apple QuickTime moov Atom Heap Corruption Remote Code Execution Vulnerability (http://zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-16-241/)
QuoteVulnerability Details
This vulnerability allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code on vulnerable installations of Apple QuickTime. User interaction is required to exploit this vulnerability in that the target must visit a malicious page or open a malicious file. The specific flaw exists within the moov atom. By specifying an invalid value for a field within the moov atom, an attacker can write data outside of an allocated heap buffer. An attacker could leverage this to execute arbitrary code under the context of the QuickTime player.
So it seem the Apple ProRes Codec is Safe but the player has the issue , As long as you use other QT player Like Irfanview (my favorite) with the QT plugin iv_mmedia.zip (http://www.irfanview.info/files/iv_mmedia.zip) **Note this is a 32bit version of the plugin there also a 64bit Win. version , all sure be good again .
For myself I'm not too worried about it 8)
Sorry being a little off topic , Ok @sgofferj & @Flocksock I'll do some test on my Windows7 Pro PC workstation with the new resolve beta 2 or 3 (I will have to check) and see for myself the problems you guys are facing and post here , one more thing have you Guys every tried MLVProducer (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=15271.0) ? It's the very Best PC app for progressing ML raw to Cdng's or Color correcting to a intermediate file like Tiff, PNG, FFmpeg ProRes , DNxHD , FFvHuff RGB Lossless and h264 from 4.2.0 quick preview &56mb/s , 4.2.2 75mb/s , 4.4.4 100mb/s and RGB 100 mb/s
It truly is a amazing piece of software and can be run on a Mac with the help "Wine" .
Wow this went a long way since I was here last. It seems kind of stupid to suggest at this point, but make sure your output colorspace is not different than your timeline colorspace (or that both are bypassed, or that RCM is off altogether)
Moved the whole EXR discussion here. Feel free to chime in with more thoughts about this side topic if you like.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13512.msg168093#msg168093
@Flocksock - Sorry, it was 1am after a long day and I didn't notice it was @sgofferj who wrote about .avi ::)
Anyway, I just ran some tests and can't replicate the problem even with Quicktime. There is a very slight gamut shift (not gamma) caused by the codec but nothing to worry about.
If you are using RCM make sure the input colorspace is correct for the re-imported image i.e. if you rendered out Rec709 set it's input colorspace to Rec709.
Check you haven't got any track node or master panel luts active as these are applied to everything.
Grab a still of the original and use reference wipe to A/B against the import making sure you click on the grabbed still and not some other version.
Double check you are importing the correct image/video - accidentally loading a previous version can happen.
Failing that, uninstall Resolve and Quicktime then re-install Resolve and tick the Quicktime option. This should also fix the Quicktime decoder issue on startup (I had the same problem after quickly uninstalling Quicktime Player when the news dropped).
I looked back and noticed that the "Embedded Color Profile" was "None" - perhaps Quicktime, and Photoshop for that matter is too quick to assume that it's sRGB?
If values are being crushed, it leads me to think that the data is all Linear, nice and intact. Perhaps somehow modifying the image header to report a linear profile would help such programs along?
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
In Adobe apps, if there is no embedded profile in the image the app assumes the colorspace to be the same as the working space ICC profile. If it's not you need to add an ICC or lut to map it to the workspace. Also, depending on the codec used, if the image was rendered with data levels and there is no embedded profile you can get legal/full range issues.
I uninstalled Resolve 12 and Quicktime.
Than i installed an old Davini Resolve 11 Version.
And the newest Quicktime Version.
Resolve 11 starts without "Quicktime missing Warning" (good)
Droped that uncompressed file into the Resolve 11 Timeline. Render it out.
And the colors are still crushed. WTF. WHY?
After that i importet a simple jpg file into the timeline.
renderd it out. Colors are stil crushed.
I simple don't get it. I teste Premiere, AE, different players.
I skipped from DNG to a simple uncompressed avi file... to test it.
Why is Resolve 12 and 11 changing the colors in the rendering.
Its a "fresh install".
Any more sugesstions? My next plan is to install Resolve 12.5 beta... but i don't think that will fix my problem.
EDIT
CHECKED - if you rendered out Rec709 set it's input colorspace to Rec709.
CHECKED - Check you haven't got any track node or master panel luts active as these are applied to everything.
CHECKED - Grab a still of the original and use reference wipe to A/B against the import making sure you click on the grabbed still and not some other version.
I've checked that all.
No' ive rendered some tiff sequenze out of Resolve. And the tiff sequenze looks perfect! no crushed colors!
But when i render avi, movs.. allways crushed. So it has something to do with "Resolve Video rendering setting/engine".
Any sugesstions? (btw. i've got that "Quicktime missing" again. Also at Resolve 11. Is that important. because i don't
know how to fix it. I re-installed Quicktime. But Resolve still say its missing. But i starts.. so i don't klnow.
Check this
forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=38658#p230523
Upload an original MLV of the file that you have been working on. I'd like to try it on my end and compare if you rather?
That way we can compare the settings specs and maybe we'll narrow down to certain ones that you may have missed?
It'll be worth for all of us to learn from this together as a whole at the end of the day.
@Danne: I will check this out later. Thanks!
@DeafEyeJedi: thanks. I thought it was a .mlv / dng problem. But its not. It doesn't matter if i take DNG files, uncompressed avi, h264, or simple a JPG.
I took a jpg... put it into Resolve timeline and if i render it out the video file is "crushed". And it was a new install of Davinci Resolve 11. And i did
not change any settings. When i render tiff-seqenze. Its fine.
So. Thanks for your help. But i have no idea how we can mange it together?
First i have to fix that anoying "Quicktime decoder initialization failure". Maybe thats the problem. Maybe not.
I want to fix that first. So i can say: ok, thats not the problem. And than go on.
Then take screenshots of all your settings within DR and maybe we'll be able to see what's the problem?
@Danne: thanks for the link. very interesting. But i'm using Win7 and sadly this will not work in Win7.
So i still got the "Quick Time encoder initialization failed." when i start Resolve.
So i uninstalled Resolve 11. And switched back to Resolve 12. (latest stable version)
Old "Resolve 12" was Version 12.2.013
New "Resolve 12" is Version 12.3.
I am now able to render "uncompressed YUV-10bit AVI" Files... and the image looks great! (no crushed colors. 100% perfect)
And also tiff images. Looks 100% perfect.
I´m in the same boat as sgofferj posted yeterday:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17351.msg168049#msg168049 (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17351.msg168049#msg168049)
When i try to render mpeg4, quicktimes, or whatever... i allways got crushed colors.
If you want i can post screenshots of all my settings. But i think my settings are fine.
(because tiffs and uncompressed avi looks fine. so my settings must be fine. right?)
Problem: I do not want tiffs or uncompressed avis. Because they are very big.
The next steps are:
1. Fix "Quick Time encoder initialization failed." on Win7. (i will not switch to Win10) And hope that this will fix the render issues, too.
If you read this: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=38658#p230523 (https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=38658#p230523)
i think this is also a problem with Win7. There must be away that "Quicktime" and "Resolve" communicate witch each other.
Uninstall will not solve the problem.
2. Fix a new problem: As i rendered the file... the image flickers.. and now i got this "RED !" .. also in my timeline.
I restart Resolve 12.. but it is still there.
(http://s33.postimg.org/qxyp1v16n/fuck.jpg)
God damn... REEEEEEEESOLVE. WHY. so much frustration. But i will not give up. ;)
And here is a link to the test image i'm using:
http://s33.postimg.org/xuit7oxbx/test_AE_JPG.jpg (http://s33.postimg.org/xuit7oxbx/test_AE_JPG.jpg)
(no DNG ... simple jpg)
Ok, found the problem and it is levels as I thought :)
In Resolve you need to set your clip attributes for the re-imported rendered media. This is similar to 'interpret footage' in After Effects.
On the Media page, right+click on a clip in the lower right bin and select 'Clip attributes' then change the Data Levels setting to Video and click OK - you may still get a gamma shift with Quicktime i.e. the long standing Quicktime problem.
(http://i.cubeupload.com/ZxMMnO.jpg)
My window looks a bit different.
(http://s33.postimg.org/jp4lj4lj3/atr.jpg)
If i switch from "Auto" to "Data" the footage looks the same in the Timeline. And i get the full range. (no chrushed colors)
if i change to "video" i got chrushed colors in the timeline. So I do not want to change it to "Video" because that allready crushed
my blacks in the timeline. So i go with "DATA".
The strange thing is.
In the render settings i also can choose between DATA und VIDEO.
If i choose DATA or VIDEO ... the video is still chrushed. And its more chrushed when i'm using "data".
Like in this Screenshot:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg)
Of course i can interprete the footage as VIDEO .. and than color grade it. And i am able to get the same results out.
But this ist not what the original footage looks like... when i drop it in AE / Premiere / or watch it in VLC / Media Player Classic.
I have to choose "DATA" so my colors are not crushed in the timeline. But than it just looks like this:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve4.jpg)
i cannot get it out. Only if i render tiffs or uncompressed YUV 10-bit .avi files.
I'm still certain it's a levels interpretation issue. Every codec is designed to work with either legal or data levels (this can also be different for each codec in one family) but you can override this and cause gamma multiplication or division problems.
If you are simply looking at the same clip in different apps you will nearly always see differences because some apps are color managed and some are not (AE is and Premier is not).
The key thing is that ultimately you will be producing a single deliverable (unless it's a feature going to multiple formats) and if it's for web or TV this will usually be Rec709 in H.264 so your choice of intermediate file is ultimately dictated by file size and how much compression/loss you can afford.
You shouldn't get hung up on how it looks in Premier vs VLC etc because afterall, who will be watching your video in Premier except you? I can all but guarantee it will look different again on Youtube vs Vimeo vs Media Player.
You could render proxies and export it with an XML, edit in Premier and round-trip back to Resolve relinking to the original media for a final grade and H.264 export so you lose nothing or render as log to grade and deliver in whatever app you choose.
The levels issue is really only an issue when there are multiple sources in different codecs and you have the job of matching them - if it's all coming from the same camera then all the shots will have the same levels in terms of interpretation.
I typically render in ProRes, DNxHD or DNxHR, occasionally DPX or EXR for VFX and rarely in Cineform by request. Try DNxHD and leave output set to auto (safest). If you're editing in Premier or AE pre CC2015 then select Rec709 in the Resolve timeline (not Rec709 2.2 or 2.4 gamma) and set AE workspace to Rec709 (you could also try Rec709 16-235) - this will probably force you to increase gamma globally in Resolve (if you're not heavy grading and the shots are fairly similar then use a track node).
DNxHD should be interpreted properly by PP/AE and don't forget to click 'preserve embedded profile' in AE or you may be assigning an additional color profile when the shot is already in the correct colorspace. If you want to color manage Premier you need to do it via AE using dynamic link - Premier is not color managed.
I record alot of RAW Footage right now. For a documentary film. So this if for Filmfestivals.
Even if my output is "only" for Youtube / Vimeo / TV ... still the colors are OF.
Its definitly NOT normal when i put a jpg into a timeline.. and render it out... the colors are
crushed. It looks good in AE, Premiere, Phothsop, VLC, Quicktime, Media Player Classic, and also on youtube, vimeo, etc.
It also looks 100% perfect in Davinci Resolves Timeline, and 100% perfect if render it out as tiff / uncompressed avi.
" I can all but guarantee it will look different again on Youtube vs Vimeo vs Media Player" ... simple NOT TRUE.
I renderd files in AE / Premiere as uncompressed, convert it to h264, upload it on Youtube and Vimeo.
And my timeline image looks the same as the rendered file, and the online video still looks the same.
Maybe some shifting in the red tones. maybe some artefakts. But not THIS:
http://monostep.org/temp/resolve5.jpg (http://monostep.org/temp/resolve5.jpg)
The solution with XML is not working. At the end i'm still stucked to render with DaVinci Resolve.
And i cannot render h264 or any quicktime. Only unkompressed or tiff. If i edit in Premiere.. so what?
That doesnt' fix my problem.
And talking about different cameras, and different codecs. I'm not talking about DNG or h264 as import material.
I can simple grab any JPG i have on my desktop, or tif, or png.. put in into my Resolve Timeline.. where it looks PERFECTLY fine.
After rendering it out... it "color crushed" (but not if i render tiff or uncompressed".
Its a bug in Resolve. Or some BUG how Resolve communicates with Quicktime... but Quicktime won't star with Resolve.
Or maybe its a "colorspace" bug... and i have to find the right button in the Settings. But there are "Resolve Settings",
than Clip interpretations stettings. And render settings. and thats it. Andi dont' want to "deal with" it.
Quote from: Flocksock on June 05, 2016, 07:37:38 PM" I can all but guarantee it will look different again on Youtube vs Vimeo vs Media Player" ... simple NOT TRUE.
Quote from: Flocksock on June 05, 2016, 07:37:38 PMMaybe some shifting in the red tones. maybe some artefakts...
So true then ::)
What I said was generalized. Any unintended change from one rendering of the image to another, due to re-encoding, is a difference, no matter how small.
But anyway, I'm trying to help you here.
Lets tackle the Quicktime problem. You are on Win7 right? We have windows 7 machine that 'had' the same problem Quicktime initialization issue a month or so back. To fix it we uninstalled Resolve and Quicktime then installed Resolve (12.5 beta) and let Resolve install Quicktime (it's a tickbox option on the installer).
Try that then try rendering a Quicktime file - if you can't then you probably have an issue with Windows, not Resolve. I still don't see this a Resolve bug for one reason - Quicktime is working here and on a lot of other systems.
What codec did you render to that showed the 'crushing'? and what app did you view it in to see the crushed image? - I'll try to replicate your exact chain here so lets use your Jpeg that you posted earlier.
What codec do you want to use and why? If you can explain your basic workflow we'll get a better idea of how you work.
I´m a bit tired deinstall/reinstall again. I will wait for an answer at the blackmagic forum, too.
Than i will try out to deinstall. First try teh stable version again. And than try the BETA + install quicktime "inside resolve".
I rendered ""mpeg4", "DNxHD", DNxHR", "h264". And some other codecs... but sometimes
resolves crashed. Crashed really bad. So i stay with "mov (mpeg4) for the moment.
And render also tiff and uncompressed to see if my settings are wrong. As i said.
As tiff... the image looks perfect!
I use "Media Player Classic" / VLC Player and Quicktime to watch the rendered image.
I also import the final video back into resolve Timeline. Media Player Classic also have the option
to save an image.. so sometimes i check that image also in Photoshop.
The codec i want to use is mpeg4. At the moment i do all the grading in Resolve.
Than render the image as mpeg4. And later convert the mpeg4 file with Quicktime Pro into
an "h264" file for Festivals, Vimeo, whatever.
File information from a "resolve mpeg4" file:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Format : QuickTime
Format/Info : Original Apple specifications
File size : 368 MiB
Duration : 43s 480ms
Overall bit rate : 70.9 Mbps
Video
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L3
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Bit rate : 70.9 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.368
------------------------------------------------------------------
Could it be because of Bit depth being 8 bits instead of the required 32-bit float?
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I deinstalled Quicktime and Resolve 12.3. Reboot.
Install Resolve 12.3 again (+ Quicktime installer direct in the Resolve Installer. )
Start Rersolve 12.3 and NOPE... Quicktime still not work.
Deinstalled all again. Reboot.
Resolve beta + Quicktime. Result: Quicktime still don't work.
I give up.
I get a new PC at the end of the week. I will install quicktime and Resolve on the new PC...
and check if i get the same errors and same render-problems.
If this is the case... i simple will render out tiffs (LZW). Might get a little huge but thats the only solution.
I still wait that someone at the blackmagicdesign forum answers to my posts. Lets see.
Neuer Rechner. Quicktime installiert. Resolve 12.3 installiert.
Resolve startet OHNE Fehlermeldung. Super!
...
Im Blackmagic forum gibt/gab es selbst nach einer Woche keine Antwort/Hilfe
zu dem Quicktime Problem. egal.
Problem bleibt aber bestehen.
Unkompressed avi YUV Files sehen super aus.
Tiff Files sehen auch gut aus!
Alle gerenderten Quicktime Files sehen "crushed" aus. (die Quicktime Fehlermeldung beim Start kann man also ignorieren)
Werde nun also immer tiff sequenzen aus Resolve rausrendern müssen.
oder DPX Files. Oder EXR. (Muss da noch genau testen ob wirklich alle "Bild Sequenzen" das
Bild zu 100% richtig anzeigen. Und welche Lösung dann platzsparend ist.)
Vom Workflow strebe ich an ALLES in Resolve zu schneiden und zu editieren.
Falls es mit dem Ton/Schnitt zu nervig wird... dann Farbkorrektur, Rohschnitt in Rersolve.
Dann wechsel in Premiere. (Ohne danach noch mal zu Resolve zu switchen)
Sorry for switching into german. I was tired at this point.
I updated to Resolve 12.5 (stable version) and now found youtube / vimeo buttons
render settings.
And it works. No color shifting. No crushed colors. I can render h264 Quicktime
file straight out of resolve and it looks perfect.
VLC and MS Media player have different level for "black point", in VLC colors looks washed. Same issue if you watch video on vimeo in IE or Firefox, in Firefox colors more "washed".
Not true. If you know what your GPU is doing, and your system, and your media Players, and your browser.. the colors looks all the same. I got same results in VLC, Media Player Classic and Quicktime. Also the same colors in Firefox, Chrome, IE. And no difference between youtube and vimeo.
And I'm talking about Windows Media Player, but not "custom" MPC.
Hey, I watch this thread, no one ever mention that use the color effect changing in techsmith (https://www.techsmith.com/) or video watermark pro (http://www.video-watermark.com/), maybe you can refer to the two software, they probably can deal with the color adding.