Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => Hardware and Accessories => Topic started by: swinxx on March 03, 2015, 01:29:16 PM

Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 03, 2015, 01:29:16 PM
Hello ML Forum!

i searched and found some resources but they seem a bit outdated.
so can anyone please update the 2015 possibilities for recording raw with external monitor (i own a Canon 5d MK3)

so we have hdmi output with smallhd or lilliput monitors, right? can they be used for recording with magic lantern mlv? if yes, are there any drawbacks regarding canon firmware versions?
and on the other hand, is there a working/reliable usb connection for recording raw material? with an android tables?
a very interesting option for me would be a wireless solution, cause i now own a brushless gimbal :)

thank you very much. greetings and best wished, swinxx
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: pv25pv on March 03, 2015, 02:06:21 PM
hey..i use a lilliput 5Dii/o/p with my 5d3 and its working fine MLV or RAW..im using 123fir Aug build.
I also tried my tab pro 8.4 but for video monitoring its not so good to use tablets *from my experience*
-it has a small delay and makes things odd if theres movement
-usb takes resources and might limit your rec. especially if u wanna max ressolution or fps *i noticed with my lexar 800x , rec time dropped from 14sec to 7sec @1080p*
But dslr controller offers a cheap wireless solution if u wanna use your tablet, and its fun to control your cam from tablet too :)
For pro video monitoring prefer an hdmi one tho.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: kontrakatze on March 03, 2015, 05:09:08 PM
I have one of the older Phottix Hector 7HD, which I like very much. It's stable, the colors are good and it is quite well equipted with ports and cables. In addition it's one of the fast devices, only takes up the 3 seconds for the hdmi handshake. I bought an antiglare folie for an ipad, cut it to fit the size and have no problems outside seeing whats going on.

Regards
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: QuickHitRecord on March 03, 2015, 08:04:33 PM
I use a SmallHD AC7 when recording raw. No problems so far, though I am still using 1.13. I wouldn't mind if it were a little smaller (I think that 5" would be perfect for this camera), but sometimes the extra real estate is nice -- especially when dealing with the super shallow DOF of the 5D. It also has a useful anamorphic scale mode if you ever shoot with those lenses.
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 04, 2015, 06:45:32 PM
I used to be able to use my iPad Mini as a decent monitor while connected ( can also use a wireless router [emoji6] ) to 5D3 with an app called DSLRcontroller which can be found in Cydia (obviously you have to jailbreak which is easy!) and worked so well up to the point when I updated the iPad mini from iOS 7 to iOS 8...

It now won't work because DSLRcontroller has NOT been updated as of yet! (Currently only works on iOS 7)

I tied out reaching out to the developer on several occasions with no responds so far.

Bummer....

Until then!
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: Datadogie on March 04, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
DSLR controller does not need to have jailbreaker android. I have my old galaxy s2 plunged in 550d and wireless to my Asus transformed 101 but be prepared for lag. But back to the original question yes it works if I remember right I had to move the image around to make it central in the screen. Only tried once sorry for being so vaige. Or was that the liliput monitor.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 05, 2015, 08:55:00 AM
Thank you very much for the input.

I am searching a leightweight 5" monitor. Simple and not too overpriced. Cause i wanna use it with my gimbal. the 7inch monitors may be great but i have not seen a unit with less than 400grams. thats way too much for my arms. 4-5inch would be great cause i only need it to frame. for the focus i use halfshutter press to magnify it 10x. then search the focus point and preadjust.
i hoped that there will be a working reliable solution with an iphone5, cause it has a great retina display and is light. but i don´t want to compromise with lag and unreliability.

thank you.
sw
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 06, 2015, 10:01:10 AM
swinxx:

I'm with you on the iPhone 5. Wish there was a solution to Be able to use DSLRcontroller on it.

Perhaps the upcoming iPhone 6S Plus may become the real deal!

lol
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: rsousa on March 06, 2015, 05:18:55 PM
I use a Lilliput  (with mlv 113) but resolution and contrast are pretty bad. Ok for for interior shots. Thinking of getting a Ninja Blade for monitoring, recording and playing back. That way I can use prores for proxies and dng for online editing.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 06, 2015, 08:44:07 PM
thank you so much for all your input.

so today i made a step forward and ordered a 7 inch field monitor, cause i found a light (380g) and very cheap unit.
an Aputure VS-2 for unbelievable 190Euros. it has a nice feature set and battery, sunhood and articulationarm as included tools. here is the link: http://www.aputure.com/V-Screen-VS-2/

so i hope that its what i am searching, so when i get it, i will post some review information.

some last questions:

- when i use canon 5d mk3 and firmware 1.1.3 raw recording and using hdmi monitor which provides zebra exposure visualisation, can i work with those - from the monitor calculated - informations?? or should i use the magic lantern internal zebras?

- i mean - are the overlays from ml still working with an external monitor, or not?

- does ml internal anamorphic desqueezing work on the external monitor?


thank you so much, greets. best regards, respect. swinxx
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 07, 2015, 12:21:20 AM
Great find, swinxx!

I now have my sight on the VS-2 and may consider getting a copy for myself as well...

Thanks man!
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 07, 2015, 01:46:03 PM
Yes!
I hope that you will be satisfied with the monitor. amazon wrote that i will get it on monday or tuesday :)
vs-3 also sounded great but is a little bit too expensive for me. vs-2 seems like beeing the best bang für the buck :))

greets swinxx
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 07, 2015, 06:45:32 PM
Well if all goes well according to you along w ML being workable on that particular monitor... Then I'll give it a go as well!
I have about $140 saved up... Another week or so should do.

I agree about the vs-3 but not sure it's worth all the extra $!?

But Man I'm surprised that I let this one flew down under my radar... Really good find, Swinxx!

[emoji106]
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: dubzeebass on March 07, 2015, 09:28:16 PM
Oddly enough I have the Ninja Blade and 422 and when I shoot flat and expose for the highlights with good lighting, the h264 looks as good as the raw.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: rsousa on March 08, 2015, 05:02:32 PM
Not sure a 250€ monitor would have accurate waveform or zebras. Not sure the Ninja Blade would also and it costs a lot more.
You can use ML ones. At the moment I set the shot with all overlays and clear them when recording. It has been working so far.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: dubzeebass on March 09, 2015, 02:56:06 AM
Atomos products have accurate scopes.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: anderSF on March 11, 2015, 07:04:56 AM
Hi all. I have a Lilliput 664 (O/P), but currently, I can't get the ML Overlays to work, only the Canon ones. Any tips?

(In other words - I wouldn't recommend this one currently)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: limey on March 11, 2015, 01:29:46 PM
Following because I need to order a monitor today... Do any monitors mirror raw overlays though?
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: reddeercity on March 11, 2015, 09:10:28 PM
On my 5D2 , It my be a little to small  but I use a Zacuto "Z-Finder EVF" loop to Ninja recorder.
They display ML Raw overlay without issue plus the Zacuto has some very good scopes and Others Good Stuff
as well   :)
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 12, 2015, 02:20:06 AM
I use a smallHD DP4 at work and unfortunately ML overlays won't appear on these monitors as well in particular.

Btw @swinxx -- how's ur new toy?
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: anderSF on March 12, 2015, 10:27:47 AM
Seems I'll be selling my Lilliput then, and getting the Aputure.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 12, 2015, 06:58:46 PM
My apertus is shipped but has not arrived yet.. I will inform you when i have tested it
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 22, 2015, 04:33:53 PM
So i have tried the android alternative but only got 20mb/s and 6sec with dslrdash when recording mlv raw. Is that normal?? Thx
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 23, 2015, 06:22:34 AM
Sounds like your Aputure hasn't arrived yet?

I'm almost done saving up to get one for myself...
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 23, 2015, 06:56:06 AM
Should arrive today :)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 23, 2015, 07:09:54 AM
Sweeeet looking forward to your results!

I have a good feeling about this, @swinxx!

[emoji1]
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 23, 2015, 10:11:48 PM
So i got the monitor today!
all i can say is whow. great product, great accessories, great price.
defititive a professional product, comes with case, sunhood, battery!, flex arm, usb firmware update cable.
my canon 5d mk3 runs 1.2.3 ml firmware and the monitor seems to work great with that firmware.
the features of the monitor are great.
i have never had the chance to compare different dslr monitor, but this one is a ocassion. it is also really leightweight.
lov it so far.
if you have any questions, please ask. thx sw
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 24, 2015, 01:35:05 AM
Awesome, happy for you @Swinxx!!!

Question... Do you mind downgrading to 113 and see if the overlays still work even though it's not clean HD out... Probably may not be worth it, huh?

Do you prefer ML's Zebras comparing to Aputure's built-in version?

Also not sure if the Peak Focus is included in Vs-2 whereas I believe it is included for the Vs-3 (correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm gonna consider order it as soon as I get back home from Puerto Rico at the end of this week.

So glad you got great news out of this product!!!

*cheers*
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 24, 2015, 06:04:42 AM
hello @deafeyejedi:
yes it has 2 versions of peak focus. one seems a little bit lighter (less agressive), and the other one has stronger lines. one missing feature compared to vs-3 is that the vs-2 has no false color, but!! it has also dot to dot (1:1), which is really nice and seems like a zoom option without loosing resolution :) i really dont need 1.1.3 (1.2.3 seems more reliable for me) but will test it when i have some time (which i dont have now) i will also check out the zebra differences and write back as soon as possible. the picture is full screen and looks really great. all in all, i really like this monitor. its a really suberb tool, but i have to mention that i have no experience with other monitors (lilliput or smallhd)
greets.
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 29, 2015, 07:22:08 AM
Now this one is such a tease... is it bluffing me?

502 (https://www.smallhd.com/lp/502/?utm_source=Netsuite&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=502%20announcement%20502)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 29, 2015, 08:14:38 AM
Yes. A little bit like an iphone 5 :) but smallhd is so expensive. Keep in mind that i bought my 7inch display for 190€ :)
And it is 7inch. Ok resolution is not top notch, but enough for me to pull sharpness and frame perfectly. Now i only need a flexible hdmi cable 50cm for gimbal use. I bought a flat one minihdmi ->hdmi but it is not working :(
Greetings and thank you for the link
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 29, 2015, 10:31:44 AM
Could you take a screenshot of your toy w ML overlays or perhaps a quick video from ur IPhone?

I'll PM you my iPhone digits and iMessage will do.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on March 29, 2015, 10:35:41 AM
Yes. But i am on holidays til next week sunday. Greets
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: ABISAL on April 14, 2015, 02:21:16 PM
Hi

After looking at all the threads on the subject, I am somewhat confused about whether it is possible to use an external monitor currently shooting in RAW.

In fact, there is an issue about that,https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/issue/1582/crop-bars-for-external-smallhd-oled-7-7 , and i dont know if i will have any problem using an external monitor.

From what I understand this is possible using the MVL module but saddly, i dont have any external monitor to try it before buying it.

Im sorry about if i duplicate the info, but i still confused after reading all the thread.

Regards!
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on April 28, 2015, 08:48:10 PM
This sounds like the topic i was looking for! :)

now i am just wondering if i can make that monitor wireless! :)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: ABISAL on May 13, 2015, 11:42:10 AM
swinxx!!! We are all waiting for your answer !!!! ^ ____ ^
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on May 13, 2015, 06:51:53 PM
I have to agree with ABISAL Seems you went on holiday and never went back SWINXX!! :)

Or, maybe THAT's EXACTLY the case.. o_O
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on May 13, 2015, 08:39:31 PM
Ok. So i have got the monitor APUTURE VS-2
Great Piece of gear! especially when you search and buy in such a price segment (i paid 190Euros).
so here is my quick review:

1. Haptic:
The monitor itself is really lightweight and has some controls on the front side. you can assign some buttons with functions from the menu. it feels good and really well build

2. Accessories:
What you get with this monitor is: a great case for protection, a sunhood made of (i think) cotton which is great, a articulation arm for all different requirements, a battery, a recharcher for the battery and a hdmi cable. so you get everything you need with this package.

3. the Menu:
The menu is self explaining, simple and offers nice options as: 1:1 dot to dot pixel representation, different color modes, focus peak, different aspect ratio frames, and so on. i think it is nearly perfect. i would like to have false color representation too, but this is only offered with the more expensive vs-3.

4. the Picture Quality:
For me it is really ok, i can focus properly, the monitor display has a slightly color shift when i compare it to my canon 5d mk3 liveview, but you can change the colors within the menu so you can adjust the wb a little bit. i like the screen size and what really stands out is the weight of the monitor, which is - for a 7 inch display - really low :)))

5. overall:
i like the monitor 4 out of 5 stars. the only downsides for me: no false color, and slight color shift. but hey the monitor cost 190euros.

so, if you have other questions, feel free to ask.

greetings, swinxx
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on May 13, 2015, 09:15:32 PM
Awsome SWINXX!! Thanks a lot mate!

Just to be on the safe side, you can record RAW while using the monitor right? (i know that most probably you can, i just want to be re-assured! :) ) i will most probably buy that same monitor..

but this one is not too far away in terms of price and it seems quite a good choice..

http://www.lilliputuk.com/monitors/hdmi/5D-ii/

What's your opinion about the lilliput monitor people? Any experience with it, or lilliput monitors in general?

cheers
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: ali farahani on May 14, 2015, 02:57:34 AM
Lilliput is not too bad but i prefer small hd monitors or ikan . better  quality than lilliput lcds.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on May 14, 2015, 12:51:58 PM
i had no problems when recording raw/mlv, so yes: it is possible
i have switched firmware to 1.2.3 to have a clean hdmi output.

lilliput monitors are for sure also great but i have no experience with that brand.

greets. swinxxxxxxx
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on May 14, 2015, 05:30:20 PM
and recording raw/mlv on 113 will NOT show on external monitor, correct?
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: ali farahani on May 14, 2015, 10:37:21 PM

DeafEyeJedi
Hero Member
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Posts: 1079
5D3 / EOS-M / 7D / 70D

External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
« Reply #41 on: Today at 05:30:20 PM »
and recording raw/mlv on 113 will NOT show on external monitor, correct?

Not correct.. Its possible.but on 113 firmware just see the  external monitor or camera lcd(just one of them)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on May 14, 2015, 10:59:41 PM
Thanks A lot Swinxx man! :)

I do realize the question i have asked it was a bit silly, so thank you for the nice reply! :) I Think i will go for the VS 2 as well, saving me some £££

@Ali farahani

Of course ikan monitors are better than your lilliput or aputure, i would definitely buy one of those.. if it wasn't that the good stuff are quite pricey! :)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: limey on May 15, 2015, 02:34:58 PM
Recording with external monitor on 1.13 will show on the monitor only.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on May 19, 2015, 11:38:14 PM
Hi guys, just wanted to let you all know that my Aputure VS 2 arrived today. I already tried it with my 5D3 and it works fine.

The only thing, and this is a question for swinxx, the playback of MLV videos is painfully slow, and it does not work on the camera when it is in mirroring mode, Is that normal, or am i doing something wrong?

Thanks!
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on May 20, 2015, 08:32:01 AM
and it works fine as in? with RAW/MLV? Are you able to see the ML overlays while recording?

How does it look and feel while focusing during the day? bright enough?

MLV playback on camera is normally slow but it used to be really slow. They have sped it up and it's actually not too bad.

Just wait until you're done shooting for the day and just go home and deal with it on a true HD monitor, via MLRV.

jk but seriously are you happy with this VS 2?
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: swinxx on May 20, 2015, 10:14:00 PM
@ extremelypoorfilmaker:

i never used to play back mlv videos on camera direct because it was so slow in the beginning, so i don´t know. i always carry my laptop and use the cardreader and Mlrawviewer to playback my files.

@DeafEyeJedi:

when the sun is shining bright and you are on set at highnoon, you can not see very much on screen, also with sundood applied. i think the problem is that the display is too glossy. when the sun is behind the clouds, there is no problem :)
There are no overlays cause i use firmware 1.2.3 with clean hdmi.

Greets. swinxx
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: ABISAL on May 21, 2015, 12:27:54 AM
Thank you very much Swinxx!!!! 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on May 25, 2015, 09:31:16 AM
I will post a more detailed answer with a video of the Monitor in operation, so you all will be able to see how it works and the features!

Sorry for the poor earlier reply, it was late.. and i was tired, and i just collected The monitor, so i was just checking it wasn't broken!

Will post soon a video of the VS2 in action! :)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on June 08, 2015, 11:36:13 PM
Hi guys, here's the video i was telling you about of the Aputure VS-2 i hope it will be usefull:

Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 05, 2016, 07:07:55 PM
@extremelypoorfilmaker where is the video? Can you share it again or the workflow you get with Aputure VS-2.

thanks in advance
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on March 05, 2016, 10:44:49 PM
Uh! I think I deleted that video.

anyway, was a pretty useless video I must say. Nothing that can be done in writing.

so, canon 5D3 + Magic Lantern + Aputre VS2:

The monitor works fine with the 5D3 with Magic Lantern running alongside Canon FRIMWARE 1.2.3 Note you can't have external monitoring with firmware 1.1.3 firmware 1.3.3 has not been ported (yet).

Just connect camera and monitor via HDMI (best resolution) turn monitor on and then camera. If you have the mirroring option selected in your Menu, you will have a clean feed from the camera with no overlays. All the overlays will remain in your camera monitor. With No-Mirroring, the monitor will became de facto your primary monitor with no image being displayed onto the cam display.

In order to review your RAW footage with the monitor you will need to run it in no-mirroring mode. If you do so, it will work fine, but the background of your monitor will display all sort of craziness instead of being BLACK like it normally is through the camera display.
Worry not. I do not know why it will do that, but it brings no harm to either the cam or the monitor.

The monitor has focus peaking (ML focus peaking is better) False color, Zebras, cropmarks. All works fine. But still, Magic Lantern own cropmarks, zebra etc. are far better than the monitor ones.

In essence: Don't buy it.
The battery slot at the back will be a bit funny with certain batteries: If bent with the battery facing the ground there is the risk that the battery will disconnect and you will need to tape it to the monitor so that it will not go off as you are shooting.

The deal breaker: UNUSABLE outside even with the shader. The screen is so glossy, that you will end up looking at yourself instead of what's going on inside your frame. Perfectly fine in darkness or interiors.

My advice: Spend an extra £/$/€100-200 and get a better brand.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 05, 2016, 10:54:51 PM
Thanks for quick reply @extremelypoorfilmaker

Did you upgrade? Which one did you upgrade to?

I'll take your advice on not buying this monitor. @deafeyejedi recommends the Atomos Shogun. Its a bit pricey but a great backup for recording ProResHQ.

I'm looking for a monitor that will let me see the ML overlays but does not have to record to an external hard drive like the Shogun.

I want to record MLV Raw with Sound. I am using Firm 1.1.3 Build Mar.02.15.

Thanks ML community
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on March 05, 2016, 11:25:13 PM
Thanks for quick reply @extremelypoorfilmaker

Did you upgrade? Which one did you upgrade to?

I'll take your advice on not buying this monitor. @deafeyejedi recommends the Atomos Shogun. Its a bit pricey but a great backup for recording ProResHQ.

I'm looking for a monitor that will let me see the ML overlays but does not have to record to an external hard drive like the Shogun.

I want to record MLV Raw with Sound. I am using Firm 1.1.3 Build Mar.02.15.

Thanks ML community

If you want to be able to monitor externally, you should be upgrading to firmware 1.2.3 (Assuming you have a 5D3) There is no external monitoring supported for the firmware you are currently using.

I haven't upgraded yet because at the moment I am not in ned to. I will at some point, but If i will, I will probably sink my money in an Odyssey 7Q:

https://www.convergent-design.com/products/odyssey7q.html

This and the ninjas are quite pricey, but they serves as external recorders as well, so in case in the future you will pass from a DSLR to a "Big Boys" camera (Arri, Sony FS7 F5, C500, Aja cion, Kinefinity Blackmagic ursa etc.)

If you just need a simple external monitor, Lilliput does interesting stuff not too pricey.

But if you got money to splash, go for a ninja or odyssey :)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 06, 2016, 12:25:35 AM
Thanks for advice @extremelypoorfilmaker
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 06, 2016, 02:04:20 AM
One last question.

How do you record your sound with 5dmk3 ML Raw Firm 1.1.3?

Is this list correct? There is no way to record sound into the camera?
https://builds.magiclantern.fm/#/features

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on March 06, 2016, 01:14:13 PM
Magic Lantern -> Modules -> turn on mlv_snd -> Restar your camera.

You can record sound with the module mlv_rec activated. (RAW Recording 2.0) Note, the sound will be regulated by audio options in canon menu.

After you have activated the modules you need: mlv_rec and mlv_snd go into Magic Lantern -> Audio -> turn ON MLV Sound

Simple!
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 07, 2016, 10:17:50 PM
Hey @exteremlypoorfilmaker I made a mistake. I already had the Sound option on.

I was trying to ask if there is anything that can be done to the Auto Gain Control. I used to have this control on my 5d mk2.

Do you know of anything? How do you record your sound? Just str8 from the internal mic? Do you have issues with noise? etc.

thanks
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 07, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
AGC: Turn it off in Canon menu (Manual).
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 07, 2016, 11:40:29 PM
Hey @walterschulz

I am on 5d mk3 ML now and got used to using the sweet audio features found on 5d mk2 ML and 60d ML.

I only see a few options in MLV_Sound for MK3. Do you know what Trace output will do?

I'm am trying to record directly into the camera via a 3.5mm input jack from a wireless lav. I want to have more control over Gain/Volume. Is there a way to control that in 5d Mk3 ML? I already did a test with the lav and I can hear the internal mic through the headphones. Will ML separate those tracks like it does in 5d MK2 ML?

thanks again
Title: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 13, 2016, 08:08:53 AM
Hey @DeafEyeJedi thanks for the quick reply.

Can you please send details on 5d mk3.

For example,
1. Do you get MLV RAW with sound and you find that better than the ProRes422HQ with sound on the Shogun?
2. Do you know the color bit info on the MLV RAW and ProRes422HQ? Do you do post color corrections in Resolve, AE, both, etc?
3. Which firmware are you using to get both MLV RAW and ProRes422HQ? 1.1.3? Build?
4. Do you get ML Overlays while mirroring both? On both monitors?
5. Do you use RAW (1.0 Version)?
6. Do you use ML Viewer and export your MLV RAW or export DNG?


Thanks again for the help. Thanks to all the ML community for the support and progress.


@CineRAW-

1) Watch Video below.
2) MLV is 14-bit as per usual when ProRes422HQ from Shogun is only 8-bit (YCbCr 4:2:2) since that's the best for 5D3's HDMI output according to Canon.
3) 113 will give you ML or Canon layers (no clean HDMI out) versus 123 which has clean HDMI out however this test was done on 7D just because I like their audio features that ML provides. [emoji1]
4) Watch Video below.
5) Yes I do, in fact, I have been using MLV Lite lately which is just as good if not better.

MLV files were processed with MLP (with default settings and nothing else) just for this test purpose.

Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: CineRAW on March 13, 2016, 07:49:36 PM
Great sound test @DeafEyeJedi

I noticed you have ETTR option on the bottom of your ML Overlay. Do you know if I can get the same option on the 5dmk3 Fir113? Or do I have to use the histogram?

thanks again ML community
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: axelcine on March 13, 2016, 10:09:55 PM
Excellent sound. And if my eyes and ears don't deceive me - you have both a shotgun mike and a label mike attached to the Shogun. Excellent, and a good enough quality for broadcast interviews. A lot of hard working and experimenting ML-users, who excel in good raw footage should see your demo video and try experimenting with "raw sound" as well instead of just putting a piece of music  in their movie. When you master the shooting, playing with natural sound makes the experience complete and very satisfying.

Gotta go get me a Shogun one of these days - I've found a good teacher, DeafEyeJedi!!!

Latest: I can understand why you used the venerable 7D, since it has a full Audio/ML menu. How does your setup work with 5D3 (both versions)?
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on March 22, 2016, 05:07:43 PM
@axelcine -- I'll do another test comparisons in between 113 & 123 re: audio wise on 5D3 as soon as I can. Meanwhile, here's this screenshot that helped my decision making in purchasing the Shogun.

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.staticflickr.com%2F1627%2F25736028205_dafc99482b.jpg&hash=d12a73e2d09ce8f5a958bb8c6981a69a) (https://flic.kr/p/FdcSye)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: adrjork on May 21, 2016, 03:37:33 AM
Hi everybody,
I've read all this topic and I admit that I'm a bit confuse:
I'm simply looking for a 7" external monitor for my 5D3 fw 1.2.3 + ML. My needs are:
1. using the external HDMI monitor while recording MLV_raw+audio without loosing frames (consider that the gimbal I would buy - the Moza Lite2 - is connected to the 5D3 via USB);
2. recording at 1920*1080 @ 24fps, and seeing it on the external monitor without latency at the same frame-rate of 24fps (but better if at a lower resolution, like 720p);
3. possibly having the ML overlays on the external monitor;
4. if not, having at least a good internal focus peaking;
5. possibly a good internal zebra;
6. a lightweight monitor model (possibly not over 450gr).

I'd like the Lilliput 664/O/P but on their chart of supported models it seems that 664 doesn't support 720p/24Hz (http://lilliputdirect.com/index.php?_route_=supported-hdmi-modes)

So I'm in doubt (I'm a newbie here), and I decided to wait for someone that could suggest any tested monitor model that possibly fits my six points.

Thanks really really much for your help.

P.S. Please, could you suggest also a 5" version monitor that matches my six needs? (Thanks again.)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on May 21, 2016, 10:03:05 AM
I'm a bit late to this forum posting, but I use a MustHD 7 inch monitor. Very accurate colors, has HDMI lock, HDMI in and out, and works flawlessly with my 7D. There are HDMI options in the 7D ML Menu, I believe I use 16:10 HDMI.

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: alex_THC on May 26, 2016, 08:15:41 PM
I just purchased the Atomos Ninja Blade to monitor while shooting RAW on my 7D. 

Unfortunately, I can't record raw internally without getting a glitchy image in the lower portion of the image.  I've gone into Display settings and turned on the 'Force HDMI-VGA' setting, which I read will bypass that problem, but now the Ninja Blade reads 'No Input.' 

Any suggestions?  I guess the Blade doesn't read an input lower than 1080?  If it can't monitor while filming in RAW, it's kind of useless.


*I'm referring to screen tearing when I say 'glitch.'
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: Andrew Losurdo on May 30, 2016, 11:12:01 AM
Maybe you can try Feelworld 7'' monitor.I buy it from Alibaba,and I think it is very nice.
It is IPS panel,1280*800 resolution(support 4K UHD 3840*2160p is optional),HDMI AV in,and functions like Exposure,Histogram,False Colors,Peaking Focus Assist ,etc.
HDMI support:
480i / 576i / 480p/576p   
1080i (60/59.94/50)   
720p (60/59.94/50/30/29/25/24/23.98)   
1080p(60/59.94/50/30/29.97/25/24/24sF/23.98/23.98sF)
And it is light weight 0.4KG,super slim 17mm thick.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: alex_THC on June 01, 2016, 06:57:27 PM
Does anyone know what the specific frame-rate and size for the 7D setting 'Force HDMI-VGA.'  Is it 720p23.98? 

According to the Atomos website, the Ninja Blade accepts 720p60, 720p59.94, 720p50, & SD 480i.  I'm still hoping to get the monitor to work while shooting RAW on the 7D.  Any help is appreciated!

*Monitoring on the Blade works when I have the Canon settings at 1280x720p60 - with ML 'FPS Override' set to 23.98.  When I import the footage, the image is squeezed vertically (1728x584 for 16:9), which requires extra scaling in the computer.  Does anyone know if I lose information filming this way?  Thanks.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: ibrahim on May 15, 2018, 02:18:22 AM
I use a SmallHD AC7 when recording raw. No problems so far, though I am still using 1.13. I wouldn't mind if it were a little smaller (I think that 5" would be perfect for this camera), but sometimes the extra real estate is nice -- especially when dealing with the super shallow DOF of the 5D. It also has a useful anamorphic scale mode if you ever shoot with those lenses.

Interesting. Since you used 1.1.3 you could only see the monitor while the camera screen was black right? i.e. not being able to use both cameras and external monitor at once.
Are you able to see verything on the monitor from overlays, zebras, LUT, etc.
However, I am trying to find SmallHD AC7 but it seems that it no longer sold and discontinued. What is the new upgrade version of AC7? A 5 inch would be sufficient.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: Kanakori on May 31, 2018, 06:51:04 AM
I have pretty much the same question but with a lower budget. I need a monitor for my 5dmk3 with a ronin-m. I need it to work with 1.1.3. I just need it to assist me in framing and focus while I move with little to no latency.
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: pgrandaw on July 22, 2018, 06:47:14 PM
I use the Bestview s7II monitor with ML 1.1.3 on my 5diii and it's been working well. (I'm still using ML's 5d 113 because I'm shooting lots of widescreen slo-mo footage using crop_rec)

The reason I like this monitor (1920x1200) is a nice build, bright enough for the money, ($190 on Amazon) and 7 programmable buttons. It has built-in zebras, false color, histogram, peak, audio levels, etc., and can also run off the included DC power! It accepts 4k input.

The Main Issues I've seen so far are these, which are still workable to use as a non-recording field monitor for the 5diii :

1) SOUND - If using the 5diii, TURN OFF the Bestview monitor's audio meters function that's built into the monitor* and use ML's meters display to monitor because the sound doesn't carry through the HDMI output from the 5d to the monitor via the cable - at least not in ML 113. Since I record sound externally, I pump it back into the line input on the 5d. You can easily set input levels on the 5d manually to match external recorder levels (I use Zoom h5 with shotgun or lavalier mics). This way you're recording a great reference/backup track to sync your external audio later.
*also you'll want to mute the monitor's sound if it is going through to the monitor from the camera to eliminate feedback

2) HISTOGRAM/ZEBRAS - My main struggle I'm trying to figure out is the difference in EXPOSURE histogram/zebra levels between ML and the monitor's built-in histogram when exposing via ETTR. The test footage I've recorded show ML as being correctly exposed to the right, whereas when I've set exposure using the monitor's built-in histogram/zebras for exposure, it records somewhere between 1-1/3 to 1-2/3 underexposed. I'm sure this is somehow due to the 5d's limited output from the HDMI that the monitor is reading to determine levels. Unfortunately I don't see anywhere to compensate to be able to use the monitor's built-in histogram or zebras.

3) FALSE COLOR - I prefer ML's false color over the built-in one. Bestview's whites and blacks come through both as different shades of magenta and I don't see anywhere to change the color scheme in the menu. ML shows a nice difference throughout the exposure spectrum, easier to read.

My preference is to skip the monitor's fun functions and to use all ML's display options which show through on the monitor because exposure all appears accurate after processing. (I use MLV app https://ilia3101.github.io/MLV-App/ (https://ilia3101.github.io/MLV-App/) and edit in Resolve).

Does anyone know if the "clean HDMI" output in ML's 5D v123 somehow addresses the inconsistency of exposure levels between ML and external monitors? Or could this possibly just be an issue with this particular monitor or setup?

Thanks, and I enjoy the reading!
Patrick

ps. here's a quick peek at my 5d setup
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Fthumb.ibb.co%2FbAcQOd%2FAPC_1469.jpg&hash=a43aaac769440f3d5de8540c385d8411) (https://ibb.co/bAcQOd)
Title: Re: External Monitor Recommendations with MLV Raw Recording
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on February 11, 2019, 01:13:01 AM
Does anyone know if the "clean HDMI" output in ML's 5D v123 somehow addresses the inconsistency of exposure levels between ML and external monitors? Or could this possibly just be an issue with this particular monitor or setup?

Maybe this will give you an idea re: 5D3.123...