http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/the-new-canon-products-coming-february-6-2015/
:o
http://www.canonrumors.com/
It´s done!
THe future of ML could be Raw 4K?
THe bottleneck of mark III it´s finish. Check the specifications ;)
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/high_resolution_eos
Question for some of us... Should we keep the 5D3 and save up for the R...
Or sell the 5D3 and use the $ as a down payment for the R?
It'd be no brainer to have both.
Tough call.
[emoji62]
Was expecting at least 1080p@60fps video. What a disappointment! :(
@DeafEyeJedi
The new is the best.
I don´t know when ML Devs can update the modules - and if it´s possible. Axiom it´s de point of attention.
Maybe for full HD it´s enough with Mark III. Why selling it?
Blackmagic 4k it´s a good alternative.
Only God knows (a1ex ;) )
There will be mark iv later this year, probably more video oriented.
11-24 f4 lens is an interesting thing though - i wonder how the image will look like at 11mm with FF.
Yeah, heard that rumor. Was supposed to be Feb-March, actually. Feel like that's not gonna happen, now.
Canon really wants 5D to be regarded as a photo cameras, to protect it's cinema line cameras.
With the 5d III in my pocket, there is nothing in the specs that sounds interesting, at least regarding the price tag. No must have feature, it is a still camera with some video features. Ok, would be nice to have, but nothing more. I love my canons, the mood, the colors, but they missed the train somehow. Other companies did better, so I'm not sure if my next camera would be a canon.
Quote from: DeafEyeJedi on February 06, 2015, 06:34:39 AM
Question for some of us... Should we keep the 5D3 and save up for the R...
Or sell the 5D3 and use the $ as a down payment for the R?
It'd be no brainer to have both.
Tough call.
[emoji62]
Although the S and the SR can both shoot movies with the same choice of frame rates and compression as the 5D III, they don't offer clean HDMI output or headphone sockets. The message is pretty clear - if video is a major concern, these aren't the cameras for you.
Quote from: kontrakatze on February 06, 2015, 10:00:34 AM
With the 5d III in my pocket, there is nothing in the specs that sounds interesting, at least regarding the price tag. No must have feature, it is a still camera with some video features. Ok, would be nice to have, but nothing more. I love my canons, the mood, the colors, but they missed the train somehow. Other companies did better, so I'm not sure if my next camera would be a canon.
Agree, they probably don't realize that sales on 5D Mark III is solely due to ML RAW.
Quote from: jtvision on February 06, 2015, 10:15:07 AM
Agree, they probably don't realize that sales on 5D Mark III is solely due to ML RAW.
ML and ML RAW itself are great and we fond of it, but the truth is 5D3 sales granted not due it. There's probably less then 1% of real Canon owners who uses ML RAW. Face the fact - it's still technically not easy for most and people aware of it
Mmmmm, more megapickels.
Quote from: KelvinK on February 06, 2015, 10:34:17 AM
and only 6400 ISO :D
Poisson distribution! ;) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_noise)
The fact that it only does ISO 6400 makes me hopeful the downstream electronics are not as noisy as previous cameras, especially @ ISO 100. I'm not holding me breath though.
Quote from: Audionut on February 06, 2015, 10:43:56 AM
Poisson distribution! ;) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_noise)
The fact that it only does ISO 6400 makes me hopeful the downstream electronics are not as noisy as previous cameras, especially @ ISO 100. I'm not holding me breath though.
I guess, you will able to use ISO100 only with tripod or at very sunny days to keep shutter speed high for avoiding "micro-shake-blur".
Slightly offtopic: 5 cameras coming up (or 3 + 2 variants). 5DS/R + 750D/760D + EOS M3.
Porting and maintaining ML vs. quite a small number of devs with spare time. At time of writing 6D is blindly maintained, 1200D just starting, 100D ...
My 2 cents
Quote from: walter_schulz on February 06, 2015, 10:55:21 AM
Slightly offtopic: 5 cameras coming up (or 3 + 2 variants). 5DS/R + 750D/760D + EOS M3.
Porting and maintaining ML vs. quite a small number of devs with spare time. At time of writing 6D is blindly maintained, 1200D just starting, 100D ...
My 2 cents
You forgot 70D just started (alpha0) and there's one more camera from canon already released 7DII.
i hope they change their algorithm for m- and s-raw from yuv 4:2:2 to rgb 4:4:4. this could be an advantage for video as well. (my thoughts: the conversion is a preprocessing-step inside the body from raw to video). and because its another sensor-resolution, we can expect another scaling/bining-idea. so, could be a better mov-output as well.
slight note btw:
Canon had just kind of luck with their video-revolution. They never said, DSLRs are videomachines. If you want straight good video output from a canon-product, change to the EOS C line. Cope with your high hopes, promises canon never made.
Canon is falling back on the DSLR Movie mode battle... Or is it? Lower end cameras are now taking the role of the 5D e.g. 750. 760 etc... And Sony A7s and its counterparts? How long will extreme video capabilities be showed down an unergonomic Photobody? Yeah video is mainstream or really about to hit that mark but it ain't exactly innovative today. I have to say... I am thinking 20 years from now or maybe just 10 for that matter and we will look back and say "Hmm.. Remember back in the day when we kept stuffing our clunky photo-aparatus' with video capabilities?"
The only reason we have GH4 and A7s today is because of the MK II revolution 5 years ago.. And without MK II there wouldn't be a C100, 300, 500 either.. It all started with MK II.
Then again.. Now that we have 5Ds and 5Dr... I got a hunch that we will see a 5DC soon enough, It's main feature: 60 fps 1080i..
Just some speculations and thoughts from my side, I won't be upgrading anytime soon from the MK III, it is still an amazing camera! The 14 bits are above any other camera out there and I love every single one of those bits ;)
(http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Bildschirmfoto-2015-02-06-um-11.47.42.png)
152 mm just the grip? That must be a huge camera :P
8688 x 5792 resolution...more then 8000 pixels wide ;)
You know what that means...Time for THE troll question:
When can we expect to shoot 8K video with this 8) :P
It's easy, silent pic, 5FPS ;)
LoL now this is getting interesting...
Still CF, no C-Fast, oh dear! ::)
but it does have USB3 - that may be useful.
I would like to know if a1ex and/or g3gg0 are willing/planning to port ML to these cameras.
Or these are considered as "professional" bodies like 1DX.
Very curious as to what pros and cons there may be, in terms of the larger resolution sensor, and presumably faster processors, buffers, etc.
This is going to have a pretty small pixel pitch to squeeze all that resolution in.
Almost the same as the 7D2 pixel size.
Note that the 5DS(R) are dual digic cameras, so porting will be relatively tricky regardless of all other factors.
For all video people:
Better buy the 5dIII
This 50MP beast probably uses lineskipping for video (which means moire).
That means that if ML raw video can be ported to it, it needs about 200MegaBytes of write speed on the compact flash card to make raw video with no crop possible...
So no continuous video on this...
The only thing I can think of that Canon forgot to put into this, and ML maybe possibly can, is full resolution silent(electronic shutter) pictures, for incredible detailed timelapses.
Otherwise I see no need to port ML to the 5Ds...
I feel lucky and very optimistic about buffers and writes speed for a 5 fps with a 50 megapixels sensor.
It´s true dual processor was a problem for the 7D.
But we have the best Devs of the world!
:P
@Levas
5D S /RS - Resolution : 8688 x 5792px - needed for 4x Bining: 7680*4320px
means, it would record ~1.13 cropped, buth with possibly good output. possibly a crop-record-mode isnt needed. and possibly we get 14bit-RGB and not bayer.
regards chmee
It was a joke... 5D3 is still a remarkable valuable piece of history that will definitely STILL be around for a good period of time.
Plus it (along w other bodies) just keeps getting better as each nightlies comes out... We will technically never bleed to death!
Or shoot me if I'm wrong?
LoL
P.S. I think I'm just gonna pass on this R...
and just stand by for the IV!
[emoji102]
@chmee
Incidentally, it does exactly 7680 x 4360 at 16:9.
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
- Large: Approx. 42.5 Megapixels (8688 x 4888)
Medium 1: Approx. 33.2 Megapixels (7680 x 4320)
Medium 2: Approx. 18.7 Megapixels (5760 x 3240)
S1 (Small 1): Approx. 10.5 Megapixels (4320 x 2432)
S2 (Small 2): Approx. 2.1 Megapixels (1920 x 1080)
S3 (Small 3): Approx. 0.28 Megapixels (720 x 408)
If ML is possible on the camera, the USB3 connection suddenly gets interesting. Hopefully it isn't hampered like the SD card speed of the 5D Mark III.
Could make for some nice clean 1080p and 2160p. I am still scratching my head over the lack of clean HDMI output ... and 4K.
Could be the case that it uses 4x binning on 7680 x 4320 resolution with a little 1.1 crop.
But would that give any benefits over the 3x binning on the 5dIII, which doesn't need a little crop ?
Both end up with 1920x1080 resolution and both of them uses a full-frame sensor.
If sensor tech was exactly the same, the 5DIII would have better dynamic range, due the bigger pixels.
But it is said the dynamic range is almost the same, so Canon did improve some more on sensor tech.
Smaller pixels mean they can use greater sensitivity on the downstream electronics, since there is a smaller range of voltage that needs to be converted to digital. And we know from previous Canon equipment, that greater sensitivity means less noise. Basically, the scale has just been shifted, not improved.
So not so easy to say they made some improvement.
The biggest gain is just the shear number of pixels. Pixel bin 50 megapickels down to 12 megapickels increases SNR by 8x IIRC.
"Smaller pixels mean they can use greater sensitivity on the downstream electronics, since there is a smaller range of voltage that needs to be converted to digital."
Didn't know that it works like that ???
But it's indeed logical, 14 bit conversion on a smaller voltage range means smaller, more accurate, voltage steps in the conversion.
So, noise wise, it's not necessary bad to have small pixels with lower full well capacity ?
Bigger pixels capture more photons. More photons is always better.
Sensors in Canon cameras are capable of large DR, as shown in practise by dual ISO. It's just the noisy downstream electronics. In this case, since the pixels are smaller, they can adjust the downstream electronics for lower noise. Same thing as increasing ISO (greater sensitivity).
It's to late at night to think how equivalence works with differing pixel sizes. But smaller pixels (compared to other Canon FF cameras) means the sensor will saturate sooner, means higher base ISO (as defined by DxO).
@Levas
The sensortech is from 7DII-generation, not 5DIII. generally you can count on (as dxo describes) "print" (picture as a whole) instead of "screen"(100%view)-measurements. the bigger sensor will benefit over the smaller sensor, regardless of the pixelpitch. one more benefit: the 7Dii has got a better noise-characteristic. the hated noisepattern are gone. (look fi on picture 1"fantasy" from 5dsr (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5dsr/) and push it in photoshop, scale it to 25%, this looks f*ck*n sharp and the deep shadows are quite good as well).
a little thought experiment - look on the dxo-measurements(screen) for snr and dynamics and add simply ~1.3EV onto it. this would be great values.
thats the reason i hope, they will do (a) a better bining and/or (b) better preprocessing. nonetheless i wait for axiom and for the 5d IV.
@ Levas Canon Professional Network have release detailed technical information on the 5DS and 5DS R. "The uncompressed HDMI output found on the 5D Mark III has not been included on either of the cameras as the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R are more prone to moiré and skewing, making them less suitable for high-end video production. A headphone socket, for monitoring audio, is not included. This is due to a lack of space inside the cameras, caused by the move to USB 3.0 connectivity.
You're right, welcome to moire and aliasing :)
Quote from: Pelican on February 06, 2015, 06:37:33 PM
I would like to know if a1ex and/or g3gg0 are willing/planning to port ML to these cameras.
Or these are considered as "professional" bodies like 1DX.
Price tag for 5ds is quite "casual", this camera is obviously not in same league as 1dx/c.
is 3.500Eur for a photographic body really casual? statistically its the upper boundary. the 1dx felt to under 5.000Eur (germany) - i expect 5D IV and a successor for 1DX this year. but: the game on 1dx was clear - there's a 1dc, ml could cannibalize with a hacked 1dx. no-go for a satisfied coexistence.
Would like to see that Canon launches a 5dC.
Meaning they launch a lower(cheaper ;D) positioned cinema DSLR beside their 1dC.
Quote from: chmee on February 09, 2015, 09:54:47 AM
is 3.500Eur for a photographic body really casual? statistically its the upper boundary. the 1dx felt to under 5.000Eur (germany) - i expect 5D IV and a successor for 1DX this year. but: the game on 1dx was clear - there's a 1dc, ml could cannibalize with a hacked 1dx. no-go for a satisfied coexistence.
Well, it's dropped just now for 4 grands so talking about price it was like few weeks ago. I doubt, people who paying for camera body 10k will install there ML. This's just another type of society and mind organization imo :)
Quote from: Levas on February 09, 2015, 10:39:02 AM
Would like to see that Canon launches a 5dC.
Meaning they launch a lower(cheaper ;D) positioned cinema DSLR beside their 1dC.
No one knows, but I think after investing so much in EOS-C100-500 line they wont back to the professional video in DSLR body. Degrading video options in newest dslr camera is a bad symptom.
@kelvinK if you can enable 4k inside a 1dx, everyone would do :) its kind of ethics to not spit on your "partner"
@Levas there is at least 1 EOS C Product much under 1dc - the 1dc is a symbiot. high quality DSLR with built in 4k-video. i dont see any advantage from point of canon to release more cheapo-stuff in the eos c line. these are just high hopes.
We have to expect a lot of firmwares for the new 5D.
So, depends the hardware capabilities maybe they can add 4k h264 and HDMI output. More Iso.
Dual prosessor it´s powerfull.
Quote from: budafilms on February 09, 2015, 03:57:45 PM
We have to expect a lot of firmwares for the new 5D.
So, depends the hardware capabilities maybe they can add 4k h264 and HDMI output. More Iso.
Dual prosessor it´s powerfull.
No way. A headphone socket, for monitoring audio, is not included. Why they should bother to add 4k then? If they couldn't find place for headphone, there's obviously will be heating issues with 4k. This is not a video camera.
A C300 Successor is rumored (http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/more-confirmation-eos-c300-mark-ii-will-be-4k/) - falling in price as well to compete with the Sony FS7.
@KelvinK
A headphone socket, for monitoring audio, is not included.
- In a professional set, you have to monitoring from an amplifier, not the camera. I never worked with a good monitoring in a video camera.
Why they should bother to add 4k then?
- In my opinion if Canon loose a lot of market - DSRL are cheaper for the video market demand, not the photographers - they could add features like they do with 7D a year ago. And remember the firmware where they add to Mark III the uncompressed HDMI, and more features.
They move pieces after Nikon do. Now they have the white ones with 50 Mp.
This is the man...
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/interviews/developing_eos_5ds_and_eos_5ds_r.do
That reporter did not take advantage of asking the relevant questions to the man with all the answers.
The man with all the answers yes 8)
But I doubt if he may answer all questions, some stuff will still be confidential :-\
So, maybe this is the man?
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2015/02/16/canon-interview-cp-plus-2015-autofocus-full-frame-mirrorless-5ds-video
5DIII Us 2000.-
http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/deal-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-body-1999/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canonrumors%2Frss+%28Canon+Rumors%29&utm_content=FaceBook
Here is some video, looks nice IMO, seems more detailed than 5d3 h264.
5ds may be an interesting option for high res stills and decent quality 1080p video, if somebody doesnt need 4k... Video is better than i expected after hearing all those things about only-photo oriented cam and not carrying about video quality at all...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmFGJUh7chg#t=170
I was comparing Mark III with the new 5D S/R
and I've found that the new models have a UHS-I Card,
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_5ds#Specifications
that in Lexar site said that can record to 104 Mb/s
http://es.lexar.com/support/preguntas-frecuentes-sobre-sdhcsdxc-uhs-i
If we use spanning files with the old CF card plus the new SD cards, I think probably we can duplicate the data recording.
And if ML can works in the new 5D, Canon, absolutely - they know ML better than us - have put a door into more RAW resolution for us.
It's my imagination?
:P
@a1ex
My cam has UHS-I, too. And it is limited to about 40 MByte/s writing.
Wait and see if they used the interface introduced with 7D2. http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/canon-7d-mark-ii/fastest-sd-cf-card-comparison/
Promising, indeed but always remember g3gg0's warning about math applied to computing: 1 + 1 < 2 . And with bad luck it may give you 0.9 ...
Good link @Walter.
Appear to be a relation between fps/s in raw, sensor size and the speed of both cards in each camera.
My speculation is:
If 5D mark III
27 MB x 5fps = 135MB (CF Card 100 + SD 20)
Then, 5D S
50 MB x 4fps = 200 Mega/s
In the worst case scenary, if new 5D have the same SD Card from Rebel Model, it's around 40 MB/s speed - vs. actually 20.
Very rough DR estimation, from http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-5ds-r/canon-5ds-rA7.HTM
E5DSRhSLI00100NR0.CR2 (ISO 100):
- max value: 14733
- OB stdev: 5.8
- DR per pixel: log2(14733) - log2( 5.8 ) = 11.3 EV
- DR normalized to 8 MPix: log2(14733) - log2( 5.8 ) + log2(sqrt(8688*5792) / sqrt(8e6)) = 12.64 EV.
I am looking to buy a Canon 5dsR and I wonder if is scheduled to leave the magic lantern for these new models.
Thank you
There is no schedule. Act like there will be no ML port for these cams ever.
I wonder if there is a way I could dump the firmware from my 5DS without any disassembly required... I'm not so keen on taking apart a camera worth that many $$$ to jtag it...
?
Who said firmware dumps are requiring physical disassembly?
Contact a1ex if you want to start porting.
Hello everybody, my first post here! :)
QuoteThere is no schedule. Act like there will be no ML port for these cams ever.
It is a shame, since it seems that the 5Ds has superior video quality compared to the 5D MkIII.
We did some music videos couple of months ago, using both cameras simultaneously.
Since there is no ML for the 5Ds and we needed similar functionality from both cameras, we just used Marvel Cine picture style.
5Ds footage was cleaner, sharper and more detailed, closer to the real 1080 resolution and there was no aliasing visible.
After many Internet opinions that 5Ds is not good for video, we have used it as a second camera.
At the end we were surprised by the results (we expected 5D MkIII to be better)
and now we are sorry that we didn't use the 5Ds as the main camera.
Post and compare results?
I'm affraid I can't.
This was a commercial job and I'm not free to share screenshots on public forums without client's permission.
Fortunately, it is possible to rent both cameras and to do the comparison.
Major price drop, from 3699$ to 2399$ new on Ebay. Doesn't look people want to buy it that much. Oh, Canon, Canon...
reasonable inference: there's no much demand on canon cameras without ML installed :) sad but true.