Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => Raw Video => Raw Video Postprocessing => Topic started by: Midphase on June 28, 2014, 05:55:48 AM

Title: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Midphase on June 28, 2014, 05:55:48 AM
New Codec was released by Apple (along with new versions of FCPX). I winder if this new codec will be an even better intermediate or even finishing format for all of our 14bit raw file?

http://www.maclife.com/article/news/apple_updates_pro_video_apps_support_prores_4444_xq_media_improvements
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on June 28, 2014, 06:54:01 AM
I just got my update 10min ago, and there is a lot of improvement's to FCPX 10.1.2 & and the ProRes4444XQ .
It a HDR Codec up to 16bit with Alpha. Not just Rec 709 anymore.
From the Apple ProRes White Paper, June /2014
Quote
• Apple ProRes 4444 XQ: The highest-quality version of Apple ProRes for 4:4:4:4 image
sources (including alpha channels), with a very high data rate to preserve the detail
in high-dynamic-range imagery generated by today’s highest-quality digital image
sensors. Apple ProRes 4444 XQ preserves dynamic ranges several times greater than
the dynamic range of Rec. 709 imagery—even against the rigors of extreme visual
effects processing, in which tone-scale blacks or highlights are stretched significantly.
Like standard Apple ProRes 4444, this codec supports up to 12 bits per image channel
and up to 16 bits for the alpha channel. Apple ProRes 4444 XQ features a target data
rate of approximately 500 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920 x 1080 and 29.97 fps.
Note: Apple ProRes 4444 XQ requires OS X v10.8 (Mountain Lion) or later

There is 4 updates, ProApps Codec 1.0.5 , Motion 5.1.1 , Compressor 4.1.2 , FCPX 10.1.2.
There is better file management in fcpx , i hope this will help with Cdng import.
So I my be Staying in FCPX with Magic Lantern Raw :)

edit: Over the next few days I will put the updates to work and see if the Cdng workflow is a Real option with Apple products.
Link you the ProRes White paper -->http://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper.pdf
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: bennyray1 on June 29, 2014, 03:18:41 PM
Will this Apple ProRes 4444 XQ codec be supported in other NLE's like Premiere or even After Effects. Just for a test I converted a Cineform .mov into a APX through Compressor and tried to edit in Premiere but would not work,I also tried to play the file in Quicktime but it also did not work. Is this codec only going to be able to be used through a FCPX pipeline? Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can shed some light on the future of this new codec.Thanks.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dubzeebass on June 29, 2014, 07:12:18 PM
Will this Apple ProRes 4444 XQ codec be supported in other NLE's like Premiere or even After Effects. Just for a test I converted a Cineform .mov into a APX through Compressor and tried to edit in Premiere but would not work,I also tried to play the file in Quicktime but it also did not work. Is this codec only going to be able to be used through a FCPX pipeline? Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can shed some light on the future of this new codec.Thanks.
How the_____ should any of us know. And  also.... Why wouldn't it?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on June 29, 2014, 07:32:15 PM
Yeah, sounds like good stuff :D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on June 29, 2014, 10:47:20 PM
Quote
How the_____ should any of us know. And  also.... Why wouldn't it?
Will anybody with Mac will know!
I will be testing the new codec very soon, as I can verify if it can work with adobe.
My workflow is Apple with Cdng & ProRes4444 in fcpx 10.1.2 , but right now I have a project(1.5TB) in fcpx
I'm exporting to Compressor via the sent to command for compression to H264, so it will be busy most of the day.
But as soon as it's done I will do some test workflows with Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, as I have all these software's at my
disposal. So hang in there I will report back a.s.a.p.  :D

Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: bennyray1 on June 30, 2014, 06:04:30 AM
Will anybody with Mac will know!
I will be testing the new codec very soon, as I can verify if it can work with adobe.
My workflow is Apple with Cdng & ProRes4444 in fcpx 10.1.2 , but right now I have a project(1.5TB) in fcpx
I'm exporting to Compressor via the sent to command for compression to H264, so it will be busy most of the day.
But as soon as it's done I will do some test workflows with Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, as I have all these software's at my
disposal. So hang in there I will report back a.s.a.p.  :D

Thank you sir.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on June 30, 2014, 06:24:32 AM
So far in my first test A.E. dose not have the option to encode from Cdng to ProRes 4444XQ.
So it leads my to believe this a Apple only codec for HDR video to work in FCPX 10.1.2.  As they mention in there release
to support the New camera, they needed to built a codec to handle the bandwidth without clipping the image.
I would think adobe would need to built a plugin or update so it can be read there.
Sorry Guys I think this is a Bonus for FCPX workflows , will do more tests thou. 

 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: palegolas on July 07, 2014, 07:24:31 AM
Interesting stuff! I'm wondering if this codec supports native RAW white ballance settings. One of the benefits shooting in RAW is you don't ever need to worry about white ballance. White ballance has an impact in Log mode after all.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 07, 2014, 08:47:01 AM
I use A.E. cc with the ACR to make this files with Apple ProRes 4444XQ then edit in FCPX, not sure about the native WB for raw as I adjust WB in A.E.
I really notice the difference in Grading with noisy images there no clipping from the source like normal prores4444 in the rec709 color space. 
ProRes4444XQ is linear So there is a lot of bandwidth to play with.     
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: nikki on July 07, 2014, 01:32:37 PM
I use A.E. cc with the ACR to make this files with Apple ProRes 4444XQ then edit in FCPX, not sure about the native WB for raw as I adjust WB in A.E.
I really notice the difference in Grading with noisy images there no clipping from the source like normal prores4444 in the rec709 color space. 
ProRes4444XQ is linear So there is a lot of bandwidth to play with.   

so you can use ml raw with 444xq…can you guide us through?
I don't have A.E….(is there a way to just use fcp??)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: martin_a on July 07, 2014, 03:38:24 PM
I use A.E. cc with the ACR to make this files with Apple ProRes 4444XQ

How do you do this ?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 07, 2014, 09:27:12 PM
How do you do this ?
Just doing a quick video tutorial , as you have to hack apple to get the codec in the right place . :D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 07, 2014, 10:05:43 PM
Another video from @reddeercity... can't wait! :D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 08, 2014, 09:05:29 AM
 The wait is over, Here it is  :)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on July 08, 2014, 10:13:07 AM
Nice one. Now if only one could get this little codec plugin without going through the latest final cut x somehow :)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 08, 2014, 12:52:31 PM
@Danne
I hear that! I'm going to do some searching and PM you if I find anything useful.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 08, 2014, 04:48:02 PM
As far as I know the only way to get the codec is thought the ProApps Codecs v1.0.5
download link -->http://support.apple.com/downloads/DL1396/en_US/ProAppsCodecs.dmg
Give this a try  ;D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 08, 2014, 05:01:39 PM
Ok, downloaded, but will have to checkout later :D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on July 08, 2014, 06:46:40 PM
Just checked the provided link package from reddeercity and used unpkg to watch the content. Could not find any ProRes 4444 XQ golden nugget in there unfortunately  :P
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 08, 2014, 08:59:31 PM
you could install the demo fcpx and get the codec  :D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on July 08, 2014, 09:05:16 PM
Yeah, thought about it :). I might give it a go when I get home.
The hustle one go through to get a certain codec ;)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 08, 2014, 09:32:49 PM
Yes you're right , but you will not be disappointed . I'm doing a short project right now with the Old Cowboy from my tutorial
and I'm very impressed with the results . 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: motionSOUL on July 10, 2014, 10:26:58 AM
So FinalCut demo is the only way to get that new codec? And we can't access it from QuickTime?
Thank you so much Apple to continue to make our life more difficult ;-)
Have someone made more tests with this?

Thanks,

S.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: SoulChildPaul on July 10, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
If you locate the prores codec inside the Final Cut Pro app package you can copy it to the QuickTime folder located in library which will make it available to any app
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: motionSOUL on July 10, 2014, 05:10:09 PM
Woooh thanks, I will test that as soon as possible. If this works it is a very good news for RAW workflow!

S.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: budafilms on July 11, 2014, 05:19:57 AM
New Codec was released by Apple (along with new versions of FCPX). I winder if this new codec will be an even better intermediate or even finishing format for all of our 14bit raw file?

http://www.maclife.com/article/news/apple_updates_pro_video_apps_support_prores_4444_xq_media_improvements

I can't find the answer. It's better for our 14 bits?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: motionSOUL on July 11, 2014, 08:33:59 AM
I don't know if it is better but, for me, if it works as expected, it will be the answer.
RAW files are huge to keep, sloooow to proceed and I never really liked movie files in image separated manner.
The new codec is far better than the "standard" 4444 ProRes with bigger files so more quality and latitude to grade.
And it will surely react a lot better in all Adobe products like After Effects than DNG ones.

S.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 11, 2014, 12:36:47 PM
Yeah, I noticed for stuff like Warp Stabilizer DNGs are really slow in AE, so I usually convert to lossless first then do it.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: budafilms on July 12, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
I don't know if it is better but, for me, if it works as expected, it will be the answer.
RAW files are huge to keep, sloooow to proceed and I never really liked movie files in image separated manner.
The new codec is far better than the "standard" 4444 ProRes with bigger files so more quality and latitude to grade.
And it will surely react a lot better in all Adobe products like After Effects than DNG ones.

S.
What you expect? Wedding images? trees? What do you expect? Flawles work?

You need to use facts, and sources, for explain it, no lot of adjetives.
14 bits it's not  16 or 12. Where is all that information? Why do you need and alpha channel?
Are you sure Adobe manage the same bits of Apple Pro Res as Final Cut X or DaVinci Resolve?
I mean, sometimes the size of a file it's not the quality. A Pro Res created by a Tiiff 20 bits it's very different from jpg.

I'm not the person with the numbers. The idea is not work with Uncompresses files. That's it's quality.

So, the question is: it's useful work with Apple Pro Ress 4444xQ? Or it's no necessary for our resolution?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on July 12, 2014, 10:38:15 AM
Question is, will there be any visual difference from ProRes4444. Everything is already in there.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5151

"Apple ProRes 4444 XQ preserves dynamic ranges several times greater than the dynamic range of Rec. 709 imagery. This holds true even against the rigors of extreme visual effects processing in which tone-scale blacks or highlights are stretched significantly."

"Apple ProRes 4444 XQ features a target data rate of approximately 500 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920x1080 and 29.97 fps."

ProRes 4444
"It has a target data rate of approximately 330 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920x1080 and 29.97 fps."



Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 12, 2014, 10:42:43 AM
Hey guy just did a small project with the prores 4444 XQ , I think this will work very well with ML raw to retain the information.
With the combination of A.E. (ACR) and apple prores 4444 XQ . Being its a Linear Codec No clipping there is not reason it can't be used
to archive magic lantern files . I was getting around 425Mb/s @ 1856x928 23.976 . The video clip below was 19 GB of Cdng's  and with ProRes4444 XQ
is was 16bit 13.4GB @ 410 Mb/s at  1:4.5 Compression . Basically its a true HDR Codec. If ARRI using it there must be something good about it !
ALEXA XR/XT supports new ProRes 4444 XQ  link to announcement -->  http://www.arri.de/news/alexa-xrxt-supports-new-prores-4444-xq/

Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on July 12, 2014, 11:27:16 AM
Some comparison between 422,  4444 and 4444XQ would be a lot of fun :).
Of course, working with professional material always go for the highest quality codec when archiving.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: motionSOUL on July 12, 2014, 11:31:21 AM
I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm not a dumb either. Why people are so inclined to go for a rant!
I don't need alphas for ML (but certainly for other works I'm doing), but as Danne mentioned, Apple is saying the new ProRes XQ codec is better than the standard one in data rate and dynamic ranges. As I have said, the RAW workflow is slower than what BlackMagic and others are proposing in their cameras.
I don't use Resolve for the moment, only After Effects and this new codec seems a very interesting path for me to stock my files after importing them with ACR and use them in AE with faster interactions. That's just what I hope.

S.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: budafilms on July 12, 2014, 11:44:01 AM
Question is, will there be any visual difference from ProRes4444. Everything is already in there.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5151

"Apple ProRes 4444 XQ preserves dynamic ranges several times greater than the dynamic range of Rec. 709 imagery. This holds true even against the rigors of extreme visual effects processing in which tone-scale blacks or highlights are stretched significantly."

"Apple ProRes 4444 XQ features a target data rate of approximately 500 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920x1080 and 29.97 fps."

ProRes 4444
"It has a target data rate of approximately 330 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920x1080 and 29.97 fps."

As I read, help me if I am wrong, RAW ML work information at 12 bits, and the other 2 bits are Alpha Channel with out information about quality.
So, Apple Pro Res 4444XQ manage at 16 bits. Pro Res 4444 At 12 bits and Pro Res HQ 10 bits.
Work with 4444XQ it's unnecessary - we don't provide more information when we export to a codec with more bits. So, we can get the same quality in Pro Res 4444, and less size of the file - (Aproximate half: 550 mb vs 330).

Maybe I am wrong, I think a Dev can correct this.

Sources: RAW SPANISH http://www.dzoom.org.es/diferencias-entre-raw-y-jpeg/
Apple Pro Ress Source by Danne from Apple.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 12, 2014, 12:42:58 PM
ML raw is 14-bit image data, not 12-bit image and 2-bit alpha, no alpha channel in ML raw. So 16-bit retains the original 14-bit ML raw image data plus 2-bit placeholders (like when converting to CDNG), while 12-bit drops 2-bits of image data.

As for ProRes bit depth "Apple ProRes 4444 XQ and Apple ProRes 4444 support image sources up to 12 bits and preserve alpha sample depths up to 16 bits. All Apple ProRes 422 codecs support up to 10-bit image sources..."

So, looks like new ProRes 4444 XQ drops 2-bit image data as well, but with much higher data rate than ProRes 4444, up to 50% more depending upon original footage specs.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on July 12, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
I,d say keep the dng:s for archiving. Won,t miss a single bit ;)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 12, 2014, 10:55:51 PM
Someone suggested to keep the .raw/.mlv for archiving rather than the DNGs in case the conversion apps are improved upon at some point in the future, don't know if that would/could ever be the case though.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 13, 2014, 12:02:35 AM
The difference between 4444 & XQ is the former is Rec709 (16-235) and the latter is liner (0-255)
ProRes 4444 5.6:1 compression where as XQ is 1:4.5 :)
For comparison , HDCAM SR at 2:1 compression ratio 880 mb/s
Besides all the numbers , It depend on your workflow of choice and what you are expecting, but for me it work with my
workflow (FCPX, Adobe A.E.) and I like the results . My next project (Green Screen Music Video) test the VFX & heavy grading with XQ,
see how it holds up when I start pulling keys .
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: martin_a on July 13, 2014, 10:40:06 AM
Hey guy just did a small project with the prores 4444 XQ , I think this will work very well with ML raw to retain the information.
With the combination of A.E. (ACR) and apple prores 4444 XQ . Being its a Linear Codec No clipping there is not reason it can't be used
to archive magic lantern files . I was getting around 425Mb/s @ 1856x928 23.976 . The video clip below was 19 GB of Cdng's  and with ProRes4444 XQ
is was 16bit 13.4GB @ 410 Mb/s at  1:4.5 Compression . Basically its a true HDR Codec. If ARRI using it there must be something good about it !
ALEXA XR/XT supports new ProRes 4444 XQ  link to announcement -->  http://www.arri.de/news/alexa-xrxt-supports-new-prores-4444-xq/


How did you convert cDNG to ProRes XQ ?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 13, 2014, 11:19:55 AM
I hack Apple FCPX 10.1.2 copy the ProRes XQ codec in to QT folder in the library , now adobe see it  then use A.E. CC
with the ACR plugin then export. I made a video tutorial on how to do this on page one with proof it works in Adobe.
 link-->http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12455.msg121203#msg121203

Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 13, 2014, 12:51:42 PM
My next project (Green Screen Music Video) test the VFX & heavy grading with XQ,
see how it holds up when I start pulling keys .

Sounds like fun :D

I would think you'll have a good experience with the new codec, such high data rates. If your permitted to share the video and have the time to post it, I'd love to see at least a short clip of the result.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: monograph on July 15, 2014, 11:38:28 PM
Gamma shift...
Using the 'AppleProResCodecEmbedded.component' (ProRes 4444 XQ) from Compressor in Adobe CC (PP & AE) there is a gamma shift (at least in my case) compared to exporting with the older 4444 codec. Is this the case in FCPX too ?  Is it possible to add some lines into the Adobe 'MediaCoreQTCodecRulesCC.xml' to change this (I think the XQ codec has the tag "ap4x") ?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 16, 2014, 12:51:48 AM
Gamma shift...
Using the 'AppleProResCodecEmbedded.component' (ProRes 4444 XQ) from Compressor in Adobe CC (PP & AE) there is a gamma shift (at least in my case) compared to exporting with the older 4444 codec. Is this the case in FCPX too ?  Is it possible to add some lines into the Adobe 'MediaCoreQTCodecRulesCC.xml' to change this (I think the XQ codec has the tag "ap4x") ?
I don't have a problem with gamma shifting.
Turn the Automatic Gamma adjust tag off in the Codec Setting Drop down box encoder before you encode in A.E. With ProRes XQ.
Also remember this is a linear color space!(0-255) the old 4444 is in rec 709(16-235 with cliping)
 two difference spaces and when you monitor you must remember that. The RGB & Wave scopes are your friend here, you must pay attention to them
and watch for over saturation .

Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 16, 2014, 12:58:40 AM
@ jimmyD30, Yes I will post some material on the green screen music video, Just converting to Pro Res 4444XQ now
Images look killer , I can't tell the XQ files from the Cdng it that good  :D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: monograph on July 16, 2014, 01:04:31 AM
[quote author=reddeercity link=topic=12455.msg122129#msg122129 date=1405464708
Turn the Automatic Gamma adjust tag off in the Codec Setting Drop down box encoder before you encode in A.E. With ProRes XQ.

The RGB & Wave scopes are your friend here, you must pay attention to them
and watch for over saturation .
[/quote]

Yes I tried both on and off in the 'Automatic adjust tag' and I am good friends with Mr. and Mrs. Scopes  :) ...but still getting a shift in gamma  :-X  maybe it's just hackintosh messing with me.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 16, 2014, 01:38:55 AM
Yeah, color grading can be tough without a proper monitor. Scopes can get you most of the way there, but seeing the final result on a calibrated color grading monitor is always nice. I've viewed some of my footage on a variety of devices in the past and it looks different on every one.

Also, the final presentation medium of your footage can make a difference to your color correcting/grading process, such as if it's for web, tv, film, etc. Here's a discussion you might find helpful: https://forums.adobe.com/message/6056828

I've spent some time with Hackintosh, try calibrating your screen, I remember it making a significant difference on my setup :)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on July 16, 2014, 01:47:51 AM
[quote author=reddeercity link=topic=12455.msg122129#msg122129 date=1405464708
Turn the Automatic Gamma adjust tag off in the Codec Setting Drop down box encoder before you encode in A.E. With ProRes XQ.

The RGB & Wave scopes are your friend here, you must pay attention to them
and watch for over saturation .


Yes I tried both on and off in the 'Automatic adjust tag' and I am good friends with Mr. and Mrs. Scopes  :) ...but still getting a shift in gamma  :-X  maybe it's just hackintosh messing with me.
Good one  :P One of my Main Editing Computers is a i7 over clocked 4.7 Hackintoss GTX760, AJA LHi ,Atto raid on OSX 10.9.3
I would say No, It did take some to get my Monitor set right thou. First I calibrate my Monitor (32 inch Sony Bravia) to Rec709 with a spider then
Used the Mac Monitor Calibration Software to fine turn it to my eye . But I do edit in FCPX 10.1.2 ,when I did my test in Premiere Pro CC 2014
I didn't see any problems . My Grading Monitor is set to Full Range when I work in A.E. with XQ codec & then set to sRGB when in FCPX. :D

Edit : there again it take some time to get the Color space right on the grading monitor (12bit panasonic plasma )
I had a spider on it all the time and adjust it once a week depending on how long it's on.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: monograph on July 16, 2014, 02:33:36 AM
Thanks reddeercity & jimmyD30.... I have allready reached the limits of calibration possibilities with my old Dell labtop, my only real friends here are the Scopes family :)  I guess I am the only one having this "shift in gamma problem" between exports from the older 4444 and the new 4444XQ (the same material becomes a little bit darker, looks like a gamma shift down...). I noticed this when testing the benefits of the new codec. I think I will stay with the old 4444 export workflow untill I get my head around this.  :-\

P.S: perhaps the the CC 2014 (and FCPX) have a different gamma-tag-read than plain CC ??  :o
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 19, 2014, 01:11:58 AM
I can confirm you can get Apple ProRes 4444 XQ codec in Compressor 4.1.2 ;D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on July 19, 2014, 12:55:52 PM
Noticing some strange behavior with new codec via QuickTime.

If I try and view a QuickTime lossless file (animation) then QT converts it to ProRes 4444 (330 Mbps) for viewing, makes sense. When I view a ProRes 4444 XQ file in QT it converts it to h.264 (22 Mbps) for viewing (wouldn't think it should have to convert it to anything), makes no sense. Of course as expected, if I view a ProRes 4444 file, then QT just displays it as is.

How are we to experience/assess this new codec if QuickTime automatically converts the output to h.264 for viewing?

UPDATE: MPEG Streamclip 1.9.2 can be used to view ProRes 4444 XQ in full quality (500+ Mbps)...

Looks great!
8)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: mannfilm on August 20, 2014, 03:37:24 AM
Could someone please explain in detail how to "hack" the final cut trial and find the prores 444 xq? I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on August 20, 2014, 04:36:01 AM
Check out my post, I made a short video tutorial and explain how to get prores 4444xq working with adobe etc....
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12455.msg121203#msg121203
In fact I working on a green screen music video with that codec right now , shot it  at 1872x936 which gave me about 400 Mb/s 16bit
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: mannfilm on August 20, 2014, 08:20:01 PM
Reddeercity. I've watched your video a couple times. Nice work, but it does not seem to answer the question. In your video proes444 XQ was an option for video format. I, and others, are not offered prores 444 XQ as a adobe format option even though apple app's see it. How did you get prores 444 xq to appear in adobe?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on August 20, 2014, 10:29:12 PM
It like all QT codec there need to be in the Quick Time Main Library.
To get access to the main Library, go to finder and open up the hard drive where the OSX10.9.x is .
so it drills down like this: OSX 10.9.1.3 (root)-->Library-->QuickTime--> Video Codec
If the QuickTime folder is not there Make one and copy the codec there, That it.
Note: Apple ProRes 4444 XQ requires OS X v10.8 (Mountain Lion) or later.

If you still have a problem let me know , I try and help further .
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: jimmyD30 on August 21, 2014, 12:40:56 AM
@mannfilm

I can confirm you can get Apple ProRes 4444 XQ codec in Compressor 4.1.2 ;D
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: mannfilm on August 21, 2014, 03:11:50 AM
Very weird

I can access prores 444 xq in the apple app's and devinic resolve. The appleprorescodec, dated june 4 2014, is in the the quicktime library. None of my adobe programs, including updated cs6 and CC version show 444XQ as an option, they only show the older propres.

Did you guys find a prores component somewhere, and copy it soemwhere?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on August 21, 2014, 03:25:43 AM
Yes , as per video tutorial  extracted the codecs from FCPX or Compressor by right clicking on the application and going to show contents, then from show contents go to the plugins folder, from the plugins folder go to Compressor folder, then right clicked Compressor.bundle to show package contents, then go to plugins folder and then to ProMediaIO folder, then in the components folder copied all the .components and pasted them into my main HD--> System-->Library-->QuickTime folder
Hope that helps.

Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: JoshuOne on August 21, 2014, 10:05:07 AM
Hi, I just got a hold of the new codec and I am wondering if anyone can tell me why I can only choose millions of colors and not trillions as I could with ProRes 4444 in AE? Thanks so much, and thanks reddeercity for the heads-up on how to grab the codec.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: mannfilm on August 21, 2014, 04:42:30 PM
Reddeercity, again many thanks for your advice and video. However, in your video I see nothing about getting the plugin from FCX or compressor. Your video starts with immediately launching After Effects and the plugin is already available.  Perhaps you placed  this info somewhere later in the program? With all due respect, the FCX or compressor hack should be the first thing in the video. Regardless, thank you for this critical info.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: alvanh on September 08, 2014, 10:38:59 AM
Hello
I folow the Compressor Hack tutorial. I've know Quicktime 4444XQ present in Media encoder, Premiere, After.
The problem I have is In Davinci Resolve 11 I can read or encode in Q 4444 XQ. The optin is not proposed in the menu. It seems that resolve use is own QT path.
Do you know how I can Hack Resolve' Quicktime?
I'ved look in the Resolve content package, but it didn't look obvious.
Any Idea?
Thank you
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 23, 2015, 01:48:55 AM


Hi i am getting the : After Effects Error: Rendering error while writing to file.  Compression format error (-1610153454)  when rendering out from AE with the Prores 4444 XQ codec. Every other codes works fine.

I did everything correct, but i am not on osx mountain lion, i am not on Yosemite 10.10.2. Is this the problem? i dont want to downgrade my system.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 23, 2015, 05:38:03 AM
Hi i am getting the : After Effects Error: Rendering error while writing to file.  Compression format error (-1610153454) 
when rendering out from AE with the Prores 4444 XQ codec. Every other codes works fine.
I did everything correct, but i am not on osx mountain lion, i am not on Yosemite 10.10.2. Is this the problem? i dont want to downgrade my system.
No shouldn't be a problem! , My MacPro is on Maverick 10.9.3 & my MacBookPro Mid 2010 i7 on Yosemite 10.10.2 .
Work fine for me.
Are you using Creative Cloud Version of After Effect ?
Do you have a Full Version of Apple Pro Product?
Like FCPX , Compressor 4.1.3 , Motion5 or are you trying the 30 day trial, not sure if that make a difference .
Did you get a update for Pro Codec for Apple?
Did it ever Work for you ?
So just to be Sure we are on the same page, here is a brief explanation on how I have it working on my system.
what I did was extracted the codecs from FCPX & or Compressor 4.13 , right clicking on the application and going to show contents, then from show contents went to the plugins folder, from the plug ins folder went to Compressor folder, then right clicked Compressor.bundle to show package contents, then went to plugins folder and then went ProMediaIO folder, then in the components folder copied all the .components and pasted them into my main HD > System>Library >Quicktime
If there no Quicktime folder , make one  That's It nothing else.

One last thing , How are you setting up your project in After Effect , 8bit ,16bit or 32bit float ?
I would recommend 32bit float or at least 16bit , I know the new prores 4444xq will Not work in 8bit project, you will get errors.
Can you render out in Premiere Pro  (if you have it) in ProRes 4444XQ ? As The CC version dose support Cdng native.
Also are rendering out to the same drive as the Source File? , plus check the disk cache size in A.E. it maybe too small I have a 70GB disk cache
and if you have Multiprocessing enabled check the setting there as if you have incorrect setting there that can cause problems.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 23, 2015, 06:10:40 AM
OK.

Yes i have a Creative Cloud and my After Effects CC 2014 is constantly updated.

I dont have a full version of apple product, i went the 30 day trial route and grabbing the AppleProResCodecEmbedded.component and putting into my quicktime folder.

Did not get an update for ProCodec for Apple.....and you link me to that?

Never worked for me, just tried it for the first time 2 days ago, as i was suggested to do so by Cinelog to Log archive my ML RAW files.

I didnt copy all the components to the folder just the one specific prorescodecembedded. i will try to copy all and see if that makes a difference.

I am working 32bit float project settings.

I cant find it in Premier so havent tried exporting from there.

My disck Cache is 50gb and only have about 500mb used.

Multiprocessing is checked off.

Thanks for the suggestions, still not having any luck....I am going to review your response and try anything i havent already. Please let me know if there is anything else you can think of to help. Thanks again!
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 23, 2015, 11:33:00 PM
Ok here is a Screen Shot of my Desktop, the Left upper Window is the System Info
Shows the ProRes4444 XQ Codec Compessor (imco) & Decompressor(imdc)
Next Right Upper Show where I copied the ProRes Codec to in my  QT Library So Adobe can use or Any Program that needs QT Codec
And on the bottom Window shows where I got the file from to copy in my QT Library
Did you check for updates for the ProCodec ?
Here is download link --> https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1396?locale=en_US

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8685%2F16722547110_f308933421_b.jpg&hash=f20bbfc3e5abf67b7d88d8a087630261) (https://flic.kr/p/rtHqDL)
Screen Shot 2015-03-23 at 3.35.10 PM (https://flic.kr/p/rtHqDL) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/people/67942440@N06/), on Flickr

And Please Stop double posting !
You will get better respond by following the Rules .
Sooner or Later some one will Answerer or help. ;)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 24, 2015, 03:24:57 AM
sorry for double posting  ::)

Yea i have everything set-up the same as you @reddeercity

I have downloaded the link of pro video codec you linked, and still nothing.

I downloaded a copy of the Compressor 4 and still nothing.

I had Adobe on the phone as well and still nothing haha...they said they would call me back if they figure it out.

I have no clue whats going on , i feel i have tried everyones suggestion, and i am still getting the same error. Everything is updated as well. The last guess for me is because i am on Yosemite, everyone else seems to be on a different system still.

Note, in compressor i can export prores4444xq. Its just in my Adobe Apps when i choose to render out Proress4444xq i get the same error
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fflic.kr%2Fp%2Fru1hxa%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7606%2F16725836719_9f2319e2db_s.jpg&hash=5f6225f49c0da0e54577b9ee4368b0b4)[/url]Screen Shot 2015-03-22 at 5.20.35 PM (https://flic.kr/p/ru1hxa) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr[/img]
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 24, 2015, 04:45:38 AM
No Yosemite should not be a problem , I'm Working in FCPX on my MacPro right now .
I will switch over to my MacBookPro on Yosemite  shortly in the Next few hours and post some screen shots of it working.
But I have Seen the Error before on my Old MacPro 1.1 when I was playing around with BitJass Video Codec  from sheervideo
http://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/
I think the problem was with the drive I/O (source & destination on the same drive) and it was CS6 not CC.
 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 24, 2015, 07:48:02 AM
Interesting, ok well ill look forward to your next screen shot. Thanks again for your help!

What would you suggest from here ? should i keep trying with adobe support?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 24, 2015, 08:23:08 AM
Ok I found the Problem you are having, Now it maybe because i haven't  updated to 10.10.2 as i'm still on 10.10.1
On my MBP  i got a Error , and its a result of the "After Effects Multiprocessing" being enabled .
I have Screen Shots to show this, and when i disable it no problem, strange this is not i problem on my MacPro
but it's still on Maverick 10.9.3 .
Right now i'm in the middle of a project or i would try Yosemite update and see if it's a problem on the my MacPro.
I think it may be problem with Apple OS X

This one is to show that I'm on Yosemite 

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8717%2F16726030548_02daf3eb84_o.png&hash=b317284dbe394f8e15ef767080a63ea0) (https://flic.kr/p/ru2ha3)
Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 12.08.15 AM (https://flic.kr/p/ru2ha3) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/people/67942440@N06/), on Flickr


Now Here is the Error you are having  , I turn on Multiprocessing 

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8711%2F16726025418_b62cd95251_b.jpg&hash=bbe0cb43252f80e4945c89fe4aabfca8) (https://flic.kr/p/ru2fCA)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 12.25.59 AM (https://flic.kr/p/ru2fCA) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/people/67942440@N06/), on Flickr


Multiprocessing  Turn Off

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7654%2F16887790596_139c06f308_o.png&hash=9a7062f82989600a7dd5784929e2a033) (https://flic.kr/p/rJjkMo)
Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 12.27.56 AM (https://flic.kr/p/rJjkMo) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/people/67942440@N06/), on Flickr




Now The New ProRes4444 XQ is encoding,  A.E. is working but a little slower without Multiprocessing

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7649%2F16913701675_9fcaab0cfa_b.jpg&hash=855a9038aac54583557f106a088f60d2) (https://flic.kr/p/rLB9f8)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 12.30.38 AM (https://flic.kr/p/rLB9f8) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/people/67942440@N06/), on Flickr

One thought came to mind about this is Maybe 8GB is not even to use with Multiprocessing
As i have 16GB in my MacPro  not sure.
Anyway there you go , hope this helps !
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 25, 2015, 03:58:11 AM
So by default my multiprocessing is turned off on both my MBP and my MAC pro. I tried them both with Multiprocessing turned on and also turned off. Still got the same error (note it did take a second to render then the error came. Unlike before the error came up right when i clicked render).

My Mac book pro has 16gb RAM

MY MAc PRo has 16gb RAM

Here are a couple of screen shots, but idk if it will help. I think it is a problem with either OSX or Creative Cloud.

MAC book PRO

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8720%2F16715365587_c0ebdacdc6_s.jpg&hash=7f9b69d2a80fad9617e4b61ee37676b9) (https://flic.kr/p/rt5BQp)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 7.46.06 PM (https://flic.kr/p/rt5BQp) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7605%2F16921417072_35fb50529f_s.jpg&hash=74a4428e272bba15516b97e337842559) (https://flic.kr/p/rMhFLd)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 7.33.54 PM (https://flic.kr/p/rMhFLd) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7639%2F16921417242_9dab8aafdf_s.jpg&hash=e65349bd996fde78c098a534a8e3ca41) (https://flic.kr/p/rMhFP9)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 7.33.38 PM (https://flic.kr/p/rMhFP9) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr



And from my MAC PRO

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8754%2F16896819176_e45cc6694c_s.jpg&hash=67e91c96463076d7cc3bf195aaa96699) (https://flic.kr/p/rK7BEy)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 7.46.15 PM (https://flic.kr/p/rK7BEy) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8735%2F16735308120_bf9b780c75_s.jpg&hash=8792280f00c2f1af9325b003ba4c316a) (https://flic.kr/p/ruQQ4b)Screen Shot 2015-03-24 at 7.23.16 PM (https://flic.kr/p/ruQQ4b) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8686%2F16300353914_8fc90db6b7_s.jpg&hash=08c15b47f5bfa13358b3abd66137e67e) (https://flic.kr/p/qQpzjJ)Screen Shot 2015-03-22 at 5.20.35 PM (https://flic.kr/p/qQpzjJ) by blainesuque (https://www.flickr.com/people/92940314@N03/), on Flickr


THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!

I HOPE WE CAN TACKLE THIS SOON AND GET IT WORKING~ :D
 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 26, 2015, 04:47:49 AM
@blainesuque I notice you trying to encode prores4444XQ without Alpha
Try it with Alpha (Channels-RGBA not RGB) and choice Millions+(plus) color
And on your iMac Choose to use All your Ram  don't reserve anything for other App.
 With 16GB ram you should be able to use up to 13GB if to choose to use Multiprocessing
And for the "Ram allocation per CPU" choose the lowest number which should be 1GB .
Not sure if you Know about the little Trick to Encode Faster, in A.E.
Press the Cap Lock key on your keyboard and that disables the preview Window so it's not playing as you encode.

Forgot to ask , Are you using "After Effects CC" or is it "After Effect CC 2014" there is a differents
I have nothing but problems with "After Effect CC 2014" I only use CC version.
Give that a try, also try reinstalling A.E. if nothing else works.

Edit: There one other thing you can try , Before you encode open up a "Terminal Window"
At the prompt type (sudo purge) with out the brackets  , and the OSX will ask for your password
enter it . That should unload any temp file in ram and use of all the 16GB or at least 13GB in A.E.


Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 26, 2015, 07:51:00 AM
Ok so nothing worked. And then reverted back to after effects CC and it worked! finally haha!

I guess it was just CC 2014 problem. Thanks!
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 27, 2015, 05:37:31 AM
Glad you Got things Working Now!
I had Adobe on the Phone about the Problems With A.E. CC 2014
But they Claim there Nothing Wrong !  ::)
If that's the Case You got to Wonder Why Adobe Has  two(2) Version of the Same Software ??
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: blainesuque on March 27, 2015, 06:05:59 AM
Yea definitely, for now i reverted back to CC for premier and AE, and left the others updated as i havent experienced any problems with them....yet.

Thanks again for your help, im gonna aslo get ADOBE on the phone to see if these will problems will be resolved in CC2014 anytime soon.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: martin_a on March 29, 2015, 02:46:03 PM
I have the same problems with AE CC 2014...

I'm reinstalling the previous version of After Effects... Is it possible to work on PP CC 2014 with some 4444 XQ files ?

Thanks !
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 30, 2015, 02:07:39 AM
Is it possible to work on PP CC 2014 with some 4444 XQ files ?
Yes You can import and Edit etc.. but export to ProRes4444XQ is still a problem With Premiere Pro CC 2014 :(
I Tried to down convert to just CC but for some reasons it's no Longer Available though the Creative Cloud Console For Mac
But it there for PC  ??? Make not sense
You can Export to any other Codec with out problem.
The other Big Problem With All the CC 2014 Product ay least for video is I have not access to my Capture Card for external Monitoring >:(
I have Two units, AJA kona LHi 3G & Blackmagic UltraStudio SDI USB 3.0 and neither work in Premiere Pro , A.E. CC 2014 on Mac or PC
There is no problem in Just CC versions on PC & Mac .
And of course no problems with FCPX , Resolve & Autodesk Smoke for Mac.
I Guess I have to get on the phone with Adobe Again to find out the problem , but I think I already know what there are going say :'(
bah bah bah  not problem here.

My two cents worth .
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: bennyray1 on March 30, 2015, 02:46:52 PM
@reddeercity I was able to go into my Creative Cloud Console (Mac) and in the Apps tab I scrolled down to the section where it says Find New Apps, I then changed the filter search to Previous Version and was able to find After Effects CC...not sure if you may have just over looked the filter option...hope this helps.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on March 31, 2015, 02:27:10 AM
@bennyray1: Thanks I don't see that,
Ok now I have Premiere Pro CC installed and Yes you can Export To ProRes4444 XQ without any problems.
Not sure way the export render is Broken in CC 2014 (PP & A.E.)

So to Any One  Wishing to Use the ProRes4444 XQ to Export from PP or A.E. must use CC version and Not CC 2014.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: anderSF on April 22, 2015, 02:00:07 PM
Hi!

ProRes XQ files, as we know, look different when opened in PP than they did when exported from AE (darker). I know it has something to do with it being a linear format and not rec709 (right?), but I haven't really looked into it or understood it fully. Until now, I've just used a simple curve adjustment to get my shots looking more or less as they did in AE, as I felt the results were still better than with regular 4444.

But there's probably a more scientific way of going about this? If anyone could share the secret and/or help me understand why the files behave as they do it would be super-appreciated  :)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: eyeland on October 18, 2015, 04:33:19 PM
No sure if this thread is dead and being continued elsewhere.
I am wondering if ppl are still using the XQ version for ML workflows?
Also, It seems that the 2015 version of the CC apps exhibit the same problem as the 2014 version (getting error on render)
Did anyone ever find a solution for this or do you still have to install the pre-2014 version to encode XQ?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 18, 2015, 06:45:13 PM
As far as I know that Adobe stopped (not sure why) supporting XQ after the 2014 version.

Hence the reason few of us still use the good old AE 12.2 but exporting/rendering can be brutal at times.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on October 18, 2015, 10:28:40 PM
There many Ways to get ProRes 444XQ and Yes it the preferred Codec workflow for ML Raw .
First the supported Apps for exporting XQ which include , After Effect CS6 (I Use it, Much Faster then cc) After Effect cc.
Dose not work in After Effect cc 2014 or After Effect cc 2015.  DaVinci Resolve and of course any Apple Product can encode to XQ
(Compressor , Motion , FCPX). But unfortunately apple dose not do a good job of color correction just basic stuff. Unless you use LUTS , maybe.
Basically Adobe broke the QT Writer  in cc 2014 & 2015 , I found the QT/.mov writer and it looks like a just a version change that block the XQ
codec some how , not sure yet being trying to hack the older QT .mov writer from CS6 & cc (version 12).
Which leads me to believe Apple & Blackmagic have a deal going on here & adobe dose not. Who knows !
I also think (have not tried thou) if you have CS5.5 or 5.0 it still should work.

Along with Smart Importer 2 , it make it not to bad to import file , I have done up to 190GB at one time but you need a smoking fast machine (fast CPU)
with fast Large storage ( preferably a Raid) because A.E. is slower then others but with ACR it's far better result then resolve.
190GB that about 6-7 hours  ::) , depending on scene movement & complexity , in the end it's worth it .

 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: arrinkiiii on October 19, 2015, 01:12:59 AM
I just love my ProRes 4444 XQ in Win 7  with Premiere 2015 CC

http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html

Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on October 19, 2015, 05:10:12 AM
I just love my ProRes 4444 XQ in Win 7  with Premiere 2015 CC
http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html
Yea but it cost $$$ , or it did  and it Only 8 and 10bit no 12 or 16bit like the REAL ProRes 4444 or ProRes 4444XQ.
Read the following  FFmpeg-user Test if ProRes 4444 are real 12bit (http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-user/2015-January/025105.html)
It's base on the ffmpeg/ffmbc Source Code , I have Cinematize 2 Pro for Windows Version 2.02.3
The quality is not the same as the Real Deal , at least I think so and so dose others The Miraizon ProRes codec for windows (http://www.hackermovies.com/intermedia-codec-test-prores-vs-cineform)
If 10bit is fine go ahead , but How did you aquire the codec/encoder ??? as of Januray -2015 there stop selling all there products.
and if you do a Google search you will find this out for yourself

http://www.miraizon.com/support/support.html
Quote
Miraizon Final Support Timeline

After nearly 12 years in business, Miraizon will be ending sales and support of its products. We sincerely appreciate the support of all of our loyal customers, some of whom have been with us since 2003.

We will do our best to accommodate the support needs of our valued customers. Here is the timeline we plan to follow.
•Miraizon telephone support (both technical and non-technical) will be available until 5pm California time on Friday, January 30, 2015. After this, we will no longer be able to provide telephone support.
•Miraizon technical email support will be available until 5pm California time on Friday, January 30, 2015. After this, we will no longer be able to provide technical email support.
•Miraizon basic email support will be available until 5pm California time on Friday, February 27, 2015. After this, we will no longer be able to provide email support.
•Miraizon's web site will remain active with technical FAQs and downloads of free updaters through at least the end of February 2015
http://www.miraizon.com/store/store.html

So I guess You will have proved  that you have ProRes4444XQ on your PC and working in Premiere Pro CC 2015 ,
Not that I don't believe you but .......
Unless to bought it before January 2015 ,but the timeline seem off as the Codec wasn't release until late June 2014
so that give them a few mouths to develop it and to start to Market/Sell .

Sorry I don't mean to doubt you  :)

Edit: Did some more searching on the web and it looks like Apple may have shut them down for violating there patents
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/archive/index.php/t-336323.html
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: arrinkiiii on October 19, 2015, 08:45:16 PM

lol

easy dude =)  I don't have nothing to prove.  I think you already sad everything and also with the web links that you have write. I don't no if they are 8, 10, 12 or 16 bits... But they work like a charme. From the web site of Miraizon:

Miraizon ProRes Codec Features

The Miraizon ProRes-compatible codec delivers professional performance and is fully compatible with Apple ProRes codecs.
Support for all 4:2:2 profiles, including Proxy, LT, 422, and HQ
Support for all 4:4:4 profiles, including 4444 and 4444 XQ, with or without alpha channel data
Support for both progressive and interlaced video
Selection of profile and interlacing both programmatically and through a dialog interface
Support for conversions between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 formats
Support for conversions between 8 bit and 10 bit video formats
Support for all frame sizes from below standard-definition through HD 2K, 4K, and beyond
Support for non-standard frame sizes with automatic padding and cropping
Support for input and output in a wide variety of pixel formats, including 4:2:2 (8/10/16 bits), ARGB (8/16 bits), BGRA, v308, v408, r408, r4fl, and v410

Like i sad, they work very well in Premiere CC 2015  =)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Andy600 on October 19, 2015, 09:24:43 PM
I bought the Miraizon codecs for our Windows machine just before they stopped selling them. They are pretty much identical to Apple ProRes (not ffmpeg). I was a bit worried they might not pass QC but not had any issues so far apart from a 30+ second delay before it actual starts encoding.

I'm not sure why Miraizon shut up shop. If there was a patent violation they would have been served an immediate cease and desist notice (as has recently happened to another dev) but they had been going for many years and had a phased EOL program. My guess is they originally licensed ProRes from Apple but it just got too expensive for them to maintain.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: arrinkiiii on October 20, 2015, 12:40:40 AM
Hi Andy,  do you know at bit they operate, V.2 ?  8, 10, 12, 16?

I think that was that, they have been served and have to stop. SAD!


QC = Quality Control?
 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on December 10, 2015, 06:28:56 PM
Hello,

     I just wanted to let everyone know that the new Adobe Fall 2015 release now has ProRes 4444 XQ support. Not sure if it is still required to drop the Quicktime files from Final Cut Pro X to the Quicktime folder like Red Deer City did, but I just tested exporting in Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Media Encoder. Flawless.

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on December 10, 2015, 10:17:09 PM
Hello,

     I just wanted to let everyone know that the new Adobe Fall 2015 release now has ProRes 4444 XQ support. Not sure if it is still required to drop the Quicktime files from Final Cut Pro X to the Quicktime folder like Red Deer City did, but I just tested exporting in Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Media Encoder. Flawless.

- Paul Harwood

Are you serious? It's about friggin' time Adobe ... Care to share some screenshots for verification purposes @PaulHarwood856?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on December 10, 2015, 10:54:30 PM
Yes I can confirm ! (Premiere Pro CC 2015) I just exported a Cdng 2.4K Image sequence from a bmcc
for a indie movie I'm working on . Screen Shot from my i7 Hackintoss 

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5781%2F23032735804_e29147f9c2_c.jpg&hash=6eea8e43a4750cdae326875a4b622d4b) (https://flic.kr/p/B6jMUy)Screen Shot 2015-12-10 at 2.34.07 PM (https://flic.kr/p/B6jMUy) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/photos/67942440@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dfort on December 10, 2015, 11:40:01 PM
Wait a minute. I just updated Adobe CC and I don't have it.

@reddeercity I see you have Apple Compressor on your system. Maybe ProRes 4444 XQ was installed by an Apple app?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on December 11, 2015, 02:05:20 AM
@reddeercity I see you have Apple Compressor on your system. Maybe ProRes 4444 XQ was installed by an Apple app?
No, Apple Compressor did not install anything extra but it is very important to have as that where the codec get extracted from.

I wondering If the Adobe/ProRes4444XQ Hack was making a difference or not
Before the update the only Adobe product the could encode ProRes4444 XQ was A.E. CC (Ver. 12.x)
& A.E. CS6 with the ProResXQ hack . Any CC 2014 & 2015 App broke this hack some how .
so now it works.  :D

Here is a Quick explanation of how I got the ProRes4444XQ to work in Adobe:

"what I did was extracted the codecs from FCPX & or Compressor 4.13 ,
right clicking on the application and going to show contents,
then from show contents went to the plugins folder, from the plug ins folder went to Compressor folder,
then right clicked Compressor.bundle to show package contents,
then went to plugins folder and then went ProMediaIO folder,
then in the components folder copied all the .components and pasted them into my main HD > System>Library >Quicktime
If there no Quicktime folder , make one  That's It nothing else."


The hack start back on "Post #14" End of June/2014  and when on ward from there.

Edit: I updated Premiere Pro cc 2015 today.
Also I'm still on Yosemite OSX 10.10.4
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on December 12, 2015, 02:28:16 AM
Good stuff @reddeercity as always and Thanks for your clarifications!
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on December 14, 2015, 08:16:32 AM
Hey DeafEyeJedi,

     Sorry about the delayed response. I saw Reddeercity showed a screenshot that it works. Yeah I'm really pumped now, especially since I now can see how much of a difference this codec is compared to ProRes 4444! It's interesting because I messaged Adobe through chat on their website (phone calls weren't supported that day, I think it was Cyber Monday) and the tech said this is a known problem and should be addressed in the next update. So yeah it's definitely ridiculous it took this long, but at least she held up to her word!

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on December 23, 2015, 05:56:18 AM
Hello all , just updated Adobe SpeedGrade CC 2015 today and all is well with Apple ProRes 4444XQ exporting there.
I imported some bmcc 2.4k Cdng's  footage , setup color space etc....
Here are some Screen Shots

Merry Xmas  :D

SpeedGrade Version
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.staticflickr.com%2F1618%2F23292787013_8e134795bb.jpg&hash=766b25297132d6953312e84ba0dd577c) (https://flic.kr/p/BuiC56)
Screen Shot 2015-12-22 at 9.22.09 PM (https://flic.kr/p/BuiC56) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/photos/67942440@N06/), on Flickr

Rending in Procress
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.staticflickr.com%2F1720%2F23623880500_d7784e5723_z.jpg&hash=f89cf679307a024562332e569e6d5828) (https://flic.kr/p/BZyyCu)
Screen Shot 2015-12-22 at 9.09.27 PM (https://flic.kr/p/BZyyCu) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/photos/67942440@N06/), on Flickr

Quicktime Codec Dropdown menu
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.staticflickr.com%2F1687%2F23551705979_e1627cc89a.jpg&hash=f6e3b2bc0a84ca4aedfc53b0d4f61792) (https://flic.kr/p/BTbDEc)
Screen Shot 2015-12-22 at 9.07.40 PM (https://flic.kr/p/BTbDEc) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/photos/67942440@N06/), on Flickr

QT Encoder Setting
(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5823%2F23623864400_35d29b49ec.jpg&hash=10b8af539e1e1fd84d460ce2e1361604) (https://flic.kr/p/BZytQU)
Screen Shot 2015-12-22 at 9.20.25 PM (https://flic.kr/p/BZytQU) by RedDeerCityTV (https://www.flickr.com/photos/67942440@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on December 24, 2015, 10:25:24 PM
Awesome! Thanks for posting Reddeercity. Merry Christmas to you too.

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 17, 2016, 06:28:51 AM
Hello everyone,

     I am doing a 48 hour film challenge for fun this upcoming weekend, and am using my 7D for raw video. My Macbook Pro is okay for offloading with MLVFS and converting to ProRes 4444 XQ with After Effects and Camera Raw/VisionLog/Vision Log to REC 709 LUT. However, my friend just made a really beefy computer, but it is Windows platform. He has Adobe CC 2015. Is there any way to make it possible for Windows to support ProRes 4444 XQ video files to edit in Premiere Pro? The only possible way I see so far is Cinemartin (costs money) or somehow making the files I dragged from Final Cut Pro X (or Motion, don't remember which one it was - RedDeerCity showed us on this forum post) compatible on Windows. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. This would be a lot easier to edit in Premiere Pro on a beefy system with all the ProRes 4444 XQ files. Thanks!

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dfort on January 17, 2016, 01:42:58 PM
You can make ProRes files on Windows using ffmpeg. There's some debate whether or not they are "true" ProRes 4444 XQ but they are very high quality.

You can either do it on the command line (I haven't tried it but these should be the right options):
Code: [Select]
ffmpeg -vcodec prores_ks -pix_fmt yuv444p10 -n -r
Or, much easier, it looks like MLV Producer for Windows (http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=15271.0) should be able to do it:
Quote
-Encode to  h264, ProRes, DNxHD, FFVH, JPEG, PNG, TIFF

Good luck on the 48 hour project--this weekend? You must be in the thick of it right now.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: mothaibaphoto on January 17, 2016, 04:30:27 PM
1. Mr. Kostya commited their prores_ks to ffmpeg project in 2011.
2. ProRes 4444 XQ announced by Apple in 2014.
3. ???
prores_ks is just old (and good) ProRes422 (HQ), but not ProRes 4444 XQ.
Actually, nothing special with ProRes at all. If you don't have to deliver to your customer in certain format, Cineform on Windows is even better :)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dfort on January 17, 2016, 05:26:27 PM
prores_ks is just old (and good) ProRes422 (HQ), but not ProRes 4444 XQ.

I'm not going to argue over which codec is best for Windows, I've never worked with Cineform but heard good things about it. At work I used Avid DNxHD 175x and it is very comparable to ProRes 4444. By the way I've often delivered ProRes files directly from the Linux version of Autodesk Flame.

As far as ProRes 4444 XQ being announced in 2014, that's basically a standard that they announced so everyone can get on the same page concerning color space, bit rate, etc. Note that you probably don't need the alpha channel (the fourth 4 in ProRes 4444 XQ) and with ffmpeg you can set the color space and bit depth but like I said there's some debate whether or not it is "true" ProRes 4444 XQ--it most likely isn't.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on January 18, 2016, 06:30:06 AM
Just some Fact about Apple ProRes 4444 and XQ
Apple ProRes White Paper (https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper.pdf)
Quote
• Apple ProRes 4444: This codec features full-resolution, masteringquality
4:4:4:4 RGBA color and visual fidelity that is perceptually indistinguishable
from the original material. Apple ProRes 4444 is a high-quality solution for storing
and exchanging motion graphics and composites, with excellent multigeneration
performance and a mathematically lossless alpha channel up to 16 bits.
....target data rate of approximately 330 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920 x 1080 and 29.97 fps

Quote
variable bit rate (VBR)......Apple ProRes 4444 support image sources up to 12 bits
and preserve alpha sample depths up to 16 bits.

Quote
• Apple ProRes 4444 XQ: The highest-quality version of Apple ProRes for 4:4:4:4 image
sources (including alpha channels), with a very high data rate to preserve the detail
in high-dynamic-range imagery generated by today’s highest-quality digital image
sensors. Apple ProRes 4444 XQ preserves dynamic ranges several times greater than
the dynamic range of Rec. 709 imagery—even against the rigors of extreme visual
effects processing, in which tone-scale blacks or highlights are stretched significantly.
Like standard Apple ProRes 4444, this codec supports up to 12 bits per image channel
and up to 16 bits for the alpha channel. Apple ProRes 4444 XQ features a target data
rate of approximately 500 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920 x 1080 and 29.97 fps.

This is biggest reason to use XQ for ml raw as prores4444 will clip high lights & shadows because of the rec709 color space.
where as XQ is linear , I guess closer to rec2020 wide gamut . There is a big difference between them.

alexa xrxt supports newprores 4444 xq (https://www.arri.com/news/news/alexa-xrxt-supports-new-prores-4444-xq/)
Quote
"ProRes 4444 XQ is a fantastic choice for high-end mastering and archiving," says Henning Rädlein,  ARRI's Head of Digital Workflow Solutions.
"ProRes 4444 XQ offers 12-bit RGB encoding with a low compression ratio of 1:4.5 that maintains the superior tonal range of Log C


HDCAM SR vs ProRes 4444 (https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1045642)
Quote
ProRes 4444 330Mb/sec or 5.6:1 compression

Now FFmpeg prores 444 is just a 10bit YUV (RGB) I would put it on the some par as
Apple ProRes 422 or Blackmagic RGB codec for quality , but you are  still constrained to a limited color space.

Finally If you were one of the lucky one that got the Miraizon ProResXQ Codecs for PC  (http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html) before Apple
shut him down , then you could encode ProRes4444XQ on Windows PC .
I had a chance to view a video file encoded with the "miraizon prores4444xq" in windows "Hex Editor" and from what I see it looks
identical to a Apple encode file just has more metadata info , if you load a ProRes file in a Hex editor look at the "moov" header its at the back of the file .
I can see why apple shut it down it has the "ap4x" codec id where as the FFmpeg Prores444 uses  "ap10" ap4h(YUV444p10le)
10 is the 10bit
My conclusion is that it is 12/16bit file .



Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: Danne on January 18, 2016, 01:05:34 PM
When selecting the following syntax. 
Code: [Select]
ffmpeg -vcodec prores_ks -pix_fmt yuv444p10 -n -r
You get following from terminal. This is also the highest quality ProRes I could cream out of FFMpeg.

Code: [Select]
[swscaler @ 0x7fc234800600] deprecated pixel format used, make sure you did set range correctly
[prores_ks @ 0x7fc234013200] Autoselected 4:4:4:4 profile because of the used input colorspace. It can be overridden through -profile option.
Output #0, mov, to 'hej.mov':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : qt 
    minor_version   : 537331968
    compatible_brands: qt  CAEP
    encoder         : Lavf56.40.101
    Stream #0:0(eng): Video: prores (prores_ks) (ap4h / 0x68347061), yuv444p10le, 1280x720 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 59.94 fps, 60k tbn, 59.94 tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      creation_time   : 2016-01-17 12:08:10
      timecode        : 12:28:08;03
      encoder         : Lavc56.60.100 prores_ks
    Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: aac (mp4a / 0x6134706D), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 128 kb/s (default)
    Metadata:
      creation_time   : 2016-01-17 12:08:10
      timecode        : 12:28:08;03
      encoder         : Lavc56.60.100 aac


Code: [Select]
Autoselected 4:4:4:4 profile because of the used input colorspace.
Code: [Select]
prores (prores_ks) (ap4h / 0x68347061), yuv444p10le, 1280x720 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 59.94 fps, 60k tbn, 59.94 tbc (default)

(https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.org%2F9gu4bbxrj%2FScreen_Shot_2016_01_18_at_12_47_34.png&hash=bf1250bf1502f4634b2e392895e7adc5)

Now when piping dng files through dcraw to FFmpeg that is the bigger issue. How would you for example use the highlight settings to match extreme lighting conditions which seems to be handled perfectly in ACR.
FFmpeg prores is fine for general use and the files are really high quality and ACR workflow will do this even better. What would it look like if ACR could be piped to FFmpeg :)?

Since we,re at lossy/lossless codec why not work with this
Code: [Select]
-c:v huffyuv -pix_fmt rgb24
It turned a 250mb file into 1.5gb and I only got it to play in mpv player https://mpv.io/installation/



Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dfort on January 18, 2016, 06:57:53 PM
Going back to the post that rebooted this discussion:

Hello everyone,

     I am doing a 48 hour film challenge for fun this upcoming weekend, and am using my 7D for raw video. My Macbook Pro is okay for offloading with MLVFS and converting to ProRes 4444 XQ with After Effects and Camera Raw/VisionLog/Vision Log to REC 709 LUT. However, my friend just made a really beefy computer, but it is Windows platform. He has Adobe CC 2015. Is there any way to make it possible for Windows to support ProRes 4444 XQ video files to edit in Premiere Pro? The only possible way I see so far is Cinemartin (costs money) or somehow making the files I dragged from Final Cut Pro X (or Motion, don't remember which one it was - RedDeerCity showed us on this forum post) compatible on Windows. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. This would be a lot easier to edit in Premiere Pro on a beefy system with all the ProRes 4444 XQ files. Thanks!

- Paul Harwood

I think the answer would be that if you want to create a "real" ProRes 4444 XQ you'll have to use the Apple codec and do it on a Mac.

So is the 48 hour film challenge over? What did you end up doing?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 19, 2016, 11:40:00 PM
Hello everyone,

     I apologize for the delay in response. I really appreciate everyone's feedback, it was very helpful. The 48 hour is this weekend, but Sunday we did a test shoot. I really am glad we did. I have come to the conclusion ProRes 4444 XQ is not going to be possible on my friend's pc, like dfort stated, but I believe I've found an alternate solution. I have Avid's DNxHR 444 codec which produces, to what I've read, the same as ProRes 4444 XQ. The only difference I mainly saw was the inability to pick Trillions of Colors+, but there was still the option for Millions of Colors+. If anyone has any information on this I would greatly appreciate their input. Basically I need to export a codec on my Macbook Pro that my friend will be able to edit with on his pc. The Macbook Pro is for offloading, and he wants to use his pc he just built. I'm mainly looking to be able to edit with a codec best suited for Magic Lantern raw, at the least possible compression on both a PC and Mac, intermittently.

     I did experience some issues when shooting raw on Sunday, and was hoping for some feedback on this as well. I ran into vertical banding while using a Sandisk 128 gb 120 mb/sec, 85 mb/sec write speed, and found this is actually a problem with the 7D. I read online there is a solution to prevent this in camera before shooting. If I set the digital ISO to ex. -0.2 EV and black level to ex. -10 the lines will go away. Now I read this was in low light, so I wanted to figure out if there were settings to prevent vertical banding under good lighting or daylight. Does anyone know of good settings for removing vertical banding? Maybe expose to the right? I have researched this topic, but only really found some solutions to the 5D Mark III. The vertical banding even happens with the VAF-7D Anti Aliasing and Moire filter from Mosaic Engineering. I realize this isn't quite about the ProRes 4444 XQ codec, but I figure since it's related to the 48 hour it's okay to at least ask.

     Also, if I'm using Cinemascope crop bars in the 7D, should I have the aspect ratio set at 2:35:1 or would there be less distortion at 16:9? I mean where the faces get widened a little. I was able to make it work with 16:9 by using two layers of black video, and cropping the top on one by 88%, not 87%, and the same with cropping the bottom, with 88%, not 87%. I had a flash of white in one clip and a corrupted frame in the other, and some audio stops in mid waveform. I'm thinking to prevent this, I could film at 2:35:1 at 23.976 with sound. We are also recording sound separately with a clapboard and using Plural Eyes.

     I was using a 7 inch MustHD monitor, and was able to get it to work properly with the 16:10 monitor setting. The 7D froze when zooming with focus ring setting was turned on, and I learned to turn Global Draw off before shooting to prevent issues. I'm just looking to see if anyone would like to share settings that have worked well for them when shooting.

     I really appreciate all Magic Lantern has done for DSLR filmmakers, and I am absolutely loving the 7D and T3i with this firmware add-on. If anyone can let me know how to make the 7D work as smooth as possible, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks so much.

- Paul Harwood

     
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dfort on January 20, 2016, 12:32:55 AM
Interesting stuff but yeah, you're drifting way off topic. Maybe start a new topic? Seems that this might be especially interesting to Windows users. I've never used Avid's DNxHR 444 codec but looking up the specs it looks like it is very similar to the other Avid HD codecs I used which lock you into standard video frame sizes so no 2.35:1 option, you'll have to letterbox. No big deal but if you shoot 16x9 you can reframe vertically if needed. Of course hitting that 48 hour deadline you're better off making things as simple as possible and concentrate on the story.

Back on topic, one of the advantages ProRes has over Avid is the flexibility of using non-standard image formats. This is especially helpful when shooting 2.35:1 -- which is a standard aspect ratio in the movie industry. Of course manufacturers are constantly updating their codecs so maybe Avid will come out with something for wide screen productions.

Good luck!
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: arrinkiiii on January 20, 2016, 02:25:44 AM
For vertical banding (patterns of noise in vertical?) ...you can use MLVProducer that you can upload black frame for subtract and get all the noise that exist in the 7D.

DNxHR or ProRes in 444 is more then good. They say that 4444XQ is like working with RAW...
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 20, 2016, 06:02:47 AM
Thanks so much dfort! I appreciate all of your feedback. Do you think ProRes 4444 would be a better idea versus DNxHR? I believe it is still possible to get the ProRes 4444 codec on Windows. Do you know?

- Paul Harwood

Hey arrinkiiii,

Do I need a black frame already recorded? I'm using MLVFS and the vertical stripe fix is on. However, no difference with it turned on or off, the vertical stripes are still there. Yes, they are patterns of vertical noise, vertical banding. DNxHR seems to be weird when exported, I'll try again.

- Paul Harwood

Title: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on January 20, 2016, 06:59:04 AM
Paul,

If I remember correctly (will have to check my 7D) but I think they show up on certain ISO's (some worse than others) so which ISO were you shooting in?

Anyway to stay on topic ... I prefer 4444XQ over 4444 or let alone 422HQ. Why? Because I don't like getting the highlights/shadows clipped and personally I would like to retain DR as much as possible which is key to XQ over standard 4444 (highlights may seem like it's not clipped as much but it's definitely noticeable) if you will.

Which is why life sucks having sacks of External Drives everywhere all loaded w archived files in XQ's along with a flat log (at least for me I use Cinelog-C to make it easier in the long run) applied to use as starting points.

Many may feel that this is slightly overkill. TBH if we are going to risk our lives flying high with ML then we might as well just duplicate what the RAW sensors are actually giving us by using XQ, right? [emoji6]

Re: ProRes on Windows ... Absolutely this is possible ... Miraizon used to sell them as plugins but they got shut down by Apple.

Try this one (a bit pricey) but you can use their demo trail version...

http://www.cinemartin.com/cinec/
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 20, 2016, 07:40:06 AM
Hey DeafEyeJedi,

     Thanks so much for your reply. I was using ISO 400 with good lighting. Do you know if I should shoot in increments of 60 versus 100? I think I my friend, the crew, and I might be able to afford the student discount for $108.50. However, they don't have ProRes 4444 XQ yet. From my understanding, as long as Quicktime Player Pro 7 is installed on Windows, ProRes support up to 4444 is allowed for decoding. All I need is his pc to support ProRes 4444 XQ files that would be converted from dngs from MLVFS in After Effects. I just want to make sure because if I export ProRes 4444 XQ, and his pc won't support them, well, yeah, that would be bad. The other solution I possible saw was taking the ProRes 4444 XQ codec files from the Quicktime folder on my Macbook Pro (from reddeercity's video) and placing them in the Quicktime folder for Quicktime Player Pro 7 on my friend's pc. Is this possible. I tried Avid DNxHR and couldn't stand it. ProRes 4444 looked ok, but yes, 4444 XQ is super legit, especially since CC 2015 supports it. I definitely agree with you about using ProRes 4444 XQ to get the best possible compression out of Canon DSLRs. Maybe there's a version of XQ with GoPro Cineform?

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on January 20, 2016, 07:53:07 AM
@ PaulHardwood856 , Ok so you want to do a cross platform edit right.
There is some options here to use .
1st: Extract with MLVFS  Windows PC ver. & MLVFS for MAC so  now you have 2 copies of your project in a virtual directories (Mac & PC)
From there put them in a real file folder , from there you can go right to Premiere Pro CC with Cdng's (native support)on pc & mac)  and edit etc... then
export a Edl or XML . From there you can use Blackmagic Resolve , load up the XML or EDL and re-link .
This can be done in either PC or MAC , from there you can do a round trip to FCPX . Go to the Mac platform  open resolve load the EDL or XML , re-link
setup a Round trip to fcpx (basically resolve will export proxies or full res , up to you plus a fcpxml this can be prores4444xq .
Edit sent back fcpxml to resolve grade etc...

Or you can 1st set up Resolve with Cdng's  round trip to fcpx or round trip to premiere pro on PC .

Or the last option , If your friend is adventures and the new PC is a Intel CPU i7 family then make a Hackintosh (http://www.tonymacx86.com/)
Load MAC OSX and a way you go .......   Then they will be encoding prores xq

I have 2 , i7 Toshiba Laptop & 4770 i7 desktop workstation over clock to 4.7Ghz  ;)
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 21, 2016, 01:11:28 AM
Hey reddeercity,

     Thanks so much for your input. My friend is a bit biased against macs, so I'm not sure he will make it a Hackintosh. I've been wanting to build a Hackintosh, will happen at some point. I wish he would, since I'm pretty sure he has good enough specs for it. He doesn't have FCPX, and neither do I. I have tried it in a trial version, but it seemed to be like an upgrade from iMovie. I couldn't get into using that program for some reason, although I've heard it flows the best with Macs since it is utilized for mac hardware and the operating system. I've heard DaVinci Resolve is the best with color, but I'm not too familiar with it yet. It looks like I might have to settle with ProRes 4444, since if Quicktime Player Pro 7 is loaded on Windows the codecs are accessible. But, I do have a question. Do you know if it is possible to load the new codecs from Motion (in your tutorial) to a Windows PC? I have the Quicktime folder on my Mac with all codecs, including ProRes 4444 XQ. I'm wondering if I can put them on a flash drive and drag them on the Quicktime folder on his PC. The only problem I have with Premiere Pro is the colors are not too good importing cdngs natively, since it only supports up to 10 bit I believe (according to Adobe on the phone). Also, Adobe Camera Raw gets rid of dead pixels before exporting to ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects, versus Premiere Pro where it doesn't. The colors from Adobe Camera Raw are not replicated in Premiere Pro right since the bit depth is lowered, at least from my experience. Also, do you know if there is another way to remove dead pixels besides in camera raw? Thanks again for all of your help!

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: dfort on January 21, 2016, 04:41:29 AM
Thanks so much dfort! I appreciate all of your feedback. Do you think ProRes 4444 would be a better idea versus DNxHR? I believe it is still possible to get the ProRes 4444 codec on Windows. Do you know?

I'd say take the path of least resistance. I've worked with both the Apple ProRes and the Avid DNx codecs and both do the job. I don't even know if it is possible to encode a proper Apple approved ProRes file on Windows. ProRes encoded on Mac seem to playback fine on Windows but why complicate things?
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: reddeercity on January 21, 2016, 07:14:50 AM
@PaulHarwood856 , Yes PC Windows can read Apple ProRes4444 files encoded on Mac.
Please note you will clip hi-light and crush shadows so make sure compress the hi-light etc...
Remember the Color profile is Rec709 so you are constrained to that where as with ProRes4444XQ it linear.
That were a Log profile or lut like Vision Log would help a great deal , do some research you will be glad you did.
No you can't take the ProRes "ap4x" Codec from mac and install it , doesn't work that way in Windows .

Off Topic now , this should be discussed in a different thread

The only problem I have with Premiere Pro is the colors are not too good importing cdngs natively, since it only supports up to 10 bit I believe .
What Premiere Pro CC 2015 is doing is putting the Cdng in a Log/sRGB profile (that way you get real time play back) , just like resolve with BMD film , flat profile
this is what you are looking for, log image. And from there PP can direct import to Speedgrade  (I like it.)
I'm thinking of Grading my current project with Speedgrade even thou it's blackmagic cinema camera  2.4k footage.
Just think of the Cdng's in PP as Proxies and when you Color in speedgrade you will have the full 16bit image to work with.
ACR/A.E. is a whole different kettle of fish.
FYI: You can import a A.E. Comp in to Premiere Pro but it will be slower play back.
Here a vid I did some time ago about that very some thing , importing A.E. Comp in to PP 
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 21, 2016, 07:44:40 PM
Hey dfort,

     Thanks for your reply. I've been trying to export with DNxHR and I keep getting video lag. It's really odd. I think I will stick with ProRes 4444 or try GoPro Cineform, which comes with Adobe CC automatically, which my friend also has. Cinemartin has a codecs, but not ProRes 4444 XQ yet. But you are definitely right, why complicate things?

- Paul Harwood

Hey reddeercity,

     Thanks for your reply. I use Visionlog in Camera Raw, and it is fantastic. So with just using ProRes 4444 and Vision Log that makes sense that I will have pretty good results. I watched your video, and it was very helpful. Definitely a good workflow to keep in mind. I didn't realize Speedgrade worked with 16 bit cdngs, which is really cool.

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: surami on January 22, 2016, 04:42:56 PM
Quote
All I need is his pc to support ProRes 4444 XQ files that would be converted from dngs from MLVFS in After Effects. I just want to make sure because if I export ProRes 4444 XQ, and his pc won't support them, well, yeah, that would be bad.

Try this, maybe it works:
- render a short ProRes 4444 XQ movie on your MAC.
- give the file to your friend.
- open the file in VirtualDub (http://virtualdub.sourceforge.net/)'s Hex editor (Tools -> Hex editor -> File -> Open)
- Search for "ap4x", rename it to "ap4h", save the file.
- Play the file on the PC.
- Come back and say something... is it working or not?

You could upload a short ProRes 4444 XQ movie somewhere and I could try too.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 29, 2016, 06:27:06 PM
Hey surami,

     Thanks so much for your response, and sorry for the late reply. If you could try this that would be fantastic! Also, if it works, is it possible to do batch processing? Thanks. Here is a link to a ProRes 4444 XQ file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-vwCkJCer5bmxvTUpSbUJxUGc/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: surami on January 29, 2016, 11:08:36 PM
It works ;), you have to rename all "ap4x"s to "ap4h", but I don't know any batch processing, just search for "hex editor batch process", I'm sure you will find something usable.

update: I did a quick grade (https://www.dropbox.com/s/403qsmc1tewavr4/M25_1579_x264_1080p_23.976fps_420_8bit.mp4?dl=0) on Windows with AE CC 2015.
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on January 30, 2016, 01:34:25 AM
Hey surami,

     Alright awesome, thanks so much. I'll make sure to search that, and post back here if I found a way to do it. Awesome grade!

- Paul Harwood
Title: Re: ProRes 4444 XQ
Post by: PaulHarwood856 on February 20, 2016, 03:36:41 AM
Hey everyone,

     Here are links to the 48 hour film.

https://vimeo.com/paulharwood856/thosewhodig


    Post production took longer, but it was still written and shot in 48 hours. We transcoded in ProRes 4444 XQ using VisionLog to retain detail. If anyone has any questions please let me know. This was a great experience.

- Paul Harwood