has anyone tested if the new premiere pro 8.0 has some sort of ML raw native support?
No it does not. Should it? :))
I just imported 16bit CinemaDNGs from RawMagic and there is no pink color cast!
Edit: However, it is flat and doesn't update when changes are made in ACR.
Just check out the Premiere Pro CC(2014), and I have to say a very Big Improvement
You no longer need to Use 12bit Cdng's as now 16bit Cdng's are now supported without any issue, I imported
Cdng's from Raw2Cdng v1.4.9 from chmee at 16bit as these are the only ones that work in FCPX. No Pink hi-light or green cast.
There is some Raw like controls Called (File Source Settings) Temp, Tint, Exposure, right click on the imported Cdng File and these setting come up. 8)
Audio is synced automatically, It at a point where I think a will try a serious project with it, as I'm a FCPX user this is looking Very good for Raw only project.
As you can't beat FCPX on ProRes (.mov) base project !
This is impressing me a lot, I think adobe is starting to get it right finally .
Edit: No MLV v2.0 or Raw v1.0 support yet.
Quote from: reddeercity on June 19, 2014, 07:18:56 AM
Just check out the Premiere Pro CC(2014), and I have to say a very Big Improvement
You no longer need to Use 12bit Cdng's as now 16bit Cdng's are now supported without any issue, I imported
Cdng's from Raw2Cdng v1.4.9 from chmee at 16bit as these are the only ones that work in FCPX. No Pink hi-light or green cast.
There is some Raw like controls Called (File Source Settings) Temp, Tint, Exposure, right click on the imported Cdng File and these setting come up. 8)
Audio is synced automatically, It at a point where I think a will try a serious project with it, as I'm a FCPX user this is looking Very good for Raw only project.
As you can't beat FCPX on ProRes (.mov) base project !
This is impressing me a lot, I think adobe is starting to get it right finally .
Thanks for the heads up on the "File Source Settings" that is pretty cool. However, I still would like to edit first in Camera Raw or Lightroom, it doesn't appear to be reflecting these changes (tried replace footage, editing original, ect)
Quote from: reddeercity on June 19, 2014, 07:18:56 AM
You no longer need to Use 12bit Cdng's as now 16bit Cdng's are now supported without any issue
Not sure, what are you talking about, because 16 bit cdngs are imported in CC 2014 exactly the same way they did in CC 7.2.
I mean they used to import perfectly fine a long time ago.
Quote from: Rewind on June 19, 2014, 07:31:27 AM
Not sure, what are you talking about, because 16 bit cdngs are imported in CC 2014 exactly the same way they did in CC 7.2.
I mean they used to import perfectly fine a long time ago.
I get a pink color cast in CC 7.2
That's right, Pink cast if you use 16bit before these update. Only 12bit Cdngs would before with out problems .
That's strange, because i have both 7.2.2 and 8.0 versions installed, and 16 bit cdngs (made with raw2cdng 1.4.9.7) looks exactly the same in both versions.
It's a shame there's no mlv native support but at least we have better 16 bit cdng support and handling, i hope at least resolve 11 comes with mlv native support.
I'm using RawMagic to convert my MLV files to cDNG but i can't put these files into Premiere Pro, 7.2 or 8.0 dont work... How are you doing this ?
By the way, look what i just found in the Speedgrade CC 2014 release notes :
Canon 5D mk III CinemaDNG sample from 14-bit RAW : Added support for cDNG footage from Canon 5D MarkIII with Magic Lantern
Link : http://blogs.adobe.com/movingcolors/2014/06/18/2014-release-of-adobe-speedgrade-cc-now-available/#more-893
I'm going to give it a try :)
martin_a is correct, in Premiere Pro CC 2014 the intended workflow for all 'raw' footage is to import CinemaDNG then grade in Speedgrade - not in ACR. This is the only way to deliver realtime hardware-accelerated playback - the rendering engines in Sg and Pr are Mercury-enabled whereas the ACR "develop" module route is an old-school frame server. Because you can now pass a project back and forth between Sg and Pr it doesn't matter which one you start in.
If you really want to stay with ACR then pipe your footage through an After Effects comp - but of course you'll lose MPE playback.
Wow all this sound good! I'm going to update all this and play with it! [emoji106]
Quote from: DFM on June 19, 2014, 03:12:33 PM
martin_a is correct, in Premiere Pro CC 2014 the intended workflow for all 'raw' footage is to import CinemaDNG then grade in Speedgrade - not in ACR. This is the only way to deliver realtime hardware-accelerated playback - the rendering engines in Sg and Pr are Mercury-enabled whereas the ACR "develop" module route is an old-school frame server. Because you can now pass a project back and forth between Sg and Pr it doesn't matter which one you start in.
If you really want to stay with ACR then pipe your footage through an After Effects comp - but of course you'll lose MPE playback.
Wow, I can't wait to try the SpeedGrade workflow. I am crossing my fingers that it has highlight / shadow recovery comparable to ACR!
I just did a few tests with Speedgrade CC 2014 and i think there is still a decoding problem in it :(
Here is what i get when i put my DNGs in After Effects :
Before any correction :
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/SPEEDGRADE_CC_2014/Speedgrade-magic-lantern-raw-2.jpg)
After correction :
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/SPEEDGRADE_CC_2014/Speedgrade-magic-lantern-raw-3.jpg)
And here is what i get in Speedgrade :
Before any correction :
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/SPEEDGRADE_CC_2014/Speedgrade-magic-lantern-raw-6.jpg)
After correction :
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/SPEEDGRADE_CC_2014/Speedgrade-magic-lantern-raw-8.jpg)
Any idea why ? The white balance is wrong and i can't correct it... The highlights seems to be wrong too...
Any other tests ?
Martin_a Please use first an according correction matrix..
How is it possible in Speedgrade ?
Quote from: arturochu on June 19, 2014, 11:31:59 AM
It's a shame there's no mlv native support but at least we have better 16 bit cdng support and handling, i hope at least resolve 11 comes with mlv native support.
It would appear that 16bit CDNG's in Premiere 8 still suffer from pink highlights (not an overall pink cast but any overexposed highlights will go pink).
Also, I doubt that MLV will be natively supported by Resolve 11, maybe in the future, but it will require some conversation to be opened between Blackmagic and ML.
Will anything ever beat Adobe Camera Raw?
Based on my testing, the new update still causes blown highlights to come out pink. You can test this by importing an overexposed CinemaDNG sequence and underexposing the image using the "Source Settings" exposure control. As far as I can tell, this only occurs with overexposed footage.
Oh well. :'(
I have been checking in the pink hi-Lights that every one is reporting and I don't have this problem at all,
just did a test , these are my variables: 5D2-MLV-->MLV_Browse_Sharp-->Raw+audio v1.0-->raw2cdngv1.4.9-->16bit Cdng ,**Note** this is the converter before chmee change the 16bit color matrix to work in Premiere Pro CC 7.xx . The Version 1.5.0 raw2cdng product pink hi-light in FCPX and in Premiere Pro CC, so I have always used raw2cdng version 1.4.9, that could explain a lot.
Later on today I will capture the screen On my PC WorkStation and post a video to show this. :)
But what really Pisses my Off is there No external Monitoring for grading or simple to view your edit on a color corrected Monitor .
Connected my Blackmagic Ultra Studio SDI USB 3.0 , on the HDMI side and it's not supported >:( but in A.E. It Is ! make not sense .
Just about every NLE dose that I have came a cross, I have no desire to use Speed Grade , and unless you have a nVidia Quadro SDI card you card not
externally Monitor. So it seem we all are waiting for Resolve 11, as it dose not have these limitations imposed on it like adobe.
Quote from: reddeercity on June 19, 2014, 10:44:40 PM
But what really Pisses my Off is there No external Monitoring for grading or simple to view your edit on a color corrected Monitor .
Connected my Blackmagic Ultra Studio SDI USB 3.0 , on the HDMI side and it's not supported >:( but in A.E. It Is ! make not sense .
Just about every NLE dose that I have came a cross, I have no desire to use Speed Grade , and unless you have a nVidia Quadro SDI card you card not
externally Monitor. So it seem we all are waiting for Resolve 11, as it dose not have these limitations imposed on it like adobe.
Though Resolve CANNOT output to a second monitor, only through Blackmagic hardware, Speedgrade CAN output to a second monitor.
There are a few things that chmee has in his raw2cdng thread that help fix some issues brought up in this thread. While I recommend checking out his thread because there are work around for green/magenta issues, here is just some points to be noted. Please keep in mind that I am not expert. I have the 5D3, I need to have the black level fix enabled in the MLV module to not have the green tint. Then, I bring it into the raw2cdng 1.5 beta 6 (This is the current version. Links are on the raw2cdng thread. You have to click on the new version of his website inside the link he provided). I open the program, drag and drop the .MLVs, I use 12-bit and check fix pink highlights. It converts it and then you can open them in Premiere, Speedgrade and Resolve with no green or pink frames. I have had the audio synced, some have reports of it not working for them. I do not know why not for them. I use Premiere and Speedgrade with my editing and grading. I would not recommend only using ACR for your color grading. If you use some setting such as the contrast or clarity settings, you will have flickering if you push those settings to the extreme. ACR only looks at individual frames and not a stream of frames which cause these flickers. I would recommend using ACR to create a flat profile and change white balance only. Noise reduction can be use but, you may not get the best performance from it because it looks at individual frames. But, it is a good free solution. If you want to, export that footage to your preferred codec and work with it in your editing software. I recommend ProRes. Depending on your workflow, you may be interested in downloading Cinelog or VisonLOG as an ACR preset for a flat profile, change your white balance and export in ProRes to edit and use LUTS in Speedgrade or Resolve or just edit with those cdng files natively in Premiere or other software. Using the cdng will give you the best quality. Keep in mind, this is only an option. There are plenty of right ways, many more wrong. Resolve can change your white balance like ACR, Speedgrade is a bit more difficult because you have to change the RGB channel multipliers. Things still in the works with raw2cndg is the vertical banding which effects the 5D3. Looks like that should be implemented soon. There is plenty of information all over this website, all this information I have brought up is already in a thread somewhere here. Hopefully that helps answer some questions!
My copy of PP 8.0 is doing weird stuff with CDNG files. Some frames randomly flicker and seem to be overexposed (not happening in PP 7.0), there's still pink cast on the highlights (disappears with chmee fix), the files still lag while editing (also when hitting playback sometimes), though image quality and processing seem a tad better (it was performance what I was expecting to get with this update).
I think I'm staying in CC 2013 for now. The flickering issue makes it unusable for me, maybe an update will help with this issue in the (near) future. I crossing my fingers for Resolve 11 (performance improvement, not MLV support).
PD: I tested several CDNG files from raw2cdng and it appears that the old files without 'partymode' are now properly displayed in PP and SpeedGrade. Maybe that's what Adobe was referring to.
Quote from: sergiocamara93 on June 20, 2014, 04:27:14 AM
there's still pink cast on the highlights (disappears with chmee fix)
DNGs from RAWMagic work fine in both the old and new Premiere
until you adjust the exposure using the new Lumetri controls. Once you drop the exposure, the pink highlights show up. Can you try this and see if you get the pink highlights? The footage must be overexposed for this to work.
Quote from: DFM on June 19, 2014, 03:12:33 PM
martin_a is correct, in Premiere Pro CC 2014 the intended workflow for all 'raw' footage is to import CinemaDNG then grade in Speedgrade - not in ACR. This is the only way to deliver realtime hardware-accelerated playback - the rendering engines in Sg and Pr are Mercury-enabled whereas the ACR "develop" module route is an old-school frame server. Because you can now pass a project back and forth between Sg and Pr it doesn't matter which one you start in.
If you really want to stay with ACR then pipe your footage through an After Effects comp - but of course you'll lose MPE playback.
DFM, according to the mentioned AE/ACR workflow. Do you start in AE and then render lossless and import in PP? Or do you make some "dynamic link"?
Quote from: Thomas Worth on June 20, 2014, 06:44:45 AM
DNGs from RAWMagic work fine in both the old and new Premiere until you adjust the exposure using the new Lumetri controls. Once you drop the exposure, the pink highlights show up. Can you try this and see if you get the pink highlights? The footage must be overexposed for this to work.
Yes, I've tried tweaking the settings. With both 12bit and 16bit Cdng coming from raw2dng there are pink highlights, they "disappear" (burn) if I adjust the exposure slider to overexpose them (therefore losing detail and DR), in Resolve and ACR they are obviously fine. The flickering issue doesn't show up and the performance is oddly better with 16bit files than with 12bit ones in my system, which is weird to say the least.
When i'm back home, i'll do so me Tests. By now there is the linearizationtable inside to act like a bmcc file. I assume, without it it could behave better. Now in 8.0..
*holds breath...
This is an interesting development to say the least. Are the issues limited to ml raw or are there reports of other raw files causing similar issues?
Hi all, Here the screen capture I talked about in my other post on this subject, My biggest problem or 2 problems that needs to be look at.
1) For source image setting for Cdng's It
Really needs the
ACR plugin to come up no the Very
Weak W.B., tint, & exposure controls
They really don't help much, if any think it messes up the image.
2) The Need for external Monitoring to a proper color corrected monitor, this is a Must & a Deal Breaker for me. Everyone else seems to have this functions
but not adobe, Why Not ? FCPX, Vegas video, Autodesk Smoke for mac, etc... All have this . I would like to hear from adobe for the reason .
any ways here the video :D
@reddeercity:
1) There's no simple route within Premiere Pro CC 2014 to use the ACR grading engine, it's been entirely replaced by Speedgrade and Dynamic Link. Note the "source settings" panel displayed by PrCC2014 when you bring in CinemaDNG footage isn't intended for grading, it's just a way to match the hardware so it looks vaguely "normal" on the source monitor. All the heavy-lifting to color-correct and grade the footage happens afterwards, ideally within Sg (or by creating a Lumetri LUT in Sg and applying it in Pr). If you want to use ACR to adjust your cDNGs, you have to use After Effects (in response to steffenhaldrup you can use Dynamic Link or render to a mezzanine format, it's up to you - Dynamic Link won't give you MPE-enabled playback in Premiere as you're still pulling single frames, but you benefit from real-time updates when you tweak something in AE.
2) You can absolutely use a second display for monitoring - either a second computer monitor or a hardware output device feeding a reference TV. Just open Premiere's Preferences > Playback and tick the box you want under "Video Device". You even have offset fields to account for any loop delay between the audio and video hardware. Be careful when using computer displays fed from a consumer graphics card as not all of them allow individual calibration of each display, so people tend to require physically different cards or a multi-head pro series card. For example the video-out port on a laptop is rarely able to hold a separate calibration from the laptop's own panel.
The change to a Pr<>Sg pipeline takes a bit of mental adjustment; I agree that for our specific workflow it doesn't help much, but ML cDNGs are very much an edge case. The pipelines for CC 2014 are designed with digital cinema projects in mind, where Sg is an established tool - usually in the hands of a dedicated colorist - and the idea of adjusting 'video' footage in Camera Raw is very alien. The new workflow is optimized for true "cinema" cameras (BlackMagic etc), so while the Sg team admitted support for ML-5DIII in their blog it's not an advertized feature, and it's entirely a by-product of support for other hardware. Some flavors work, some don't, but to put it bluntly if you can make your ML files exactly the same internal format to BMCC's footage, it will work perfectly. So far you're close, but not close enough.
Yes, the old ACR > Pr workflow was more flexible, as you weren't limited in what you could feed the frame server - but it caused no end of hassle for pros as it put a bunch of important grading decisions at the front of the pipe. That's not how studios work.
Hey everyone - finally got a chance to play with CC 14. I imported the CDNG into premiere and everything looks great, but when I go to play back it's not realtime.. it gets kind of choppy. I have 24Gb DDR3 PC1600, use the CUDI setting to pull from my GeForce GTX670M card, and have an i7 processor... I thought that should be more than enough for playback. I'm just playing with test shots now, but this will be a major issue once I go to cut together my next short. Any thoughts or tips to get realtime?
Quote from: actingnurse on June 21, 2014, 02:28:20 PM
Hey everyone - finally got a chance to play with CC 14. I imported the CDNG into premiere and everything looks great, but when I go to play back it's not realtime.. it gets kind of choppy. I have 24Gb DDR3 PC1600, use the CUDA setting to pull from my GeForce GTX670M card, and have an i7 processor... I thought that should be more than enough for playback. I'm just playing with test shots now, but this will be a major issue once I go to cut together my next short. Any thoughts or tips to get realtime?
Most people put all the emphasis on CPU, and they don't realize that a major bottleneck is the speed of the drive that's serving the media. You make no mention whatsoever of what drive all of those CDNG files are living on. According to my tests, most 7200rpm drives can barely sustain 80Mb/sec, and I believe 16bit CDNG require more bandwidth than that. My solution has been to use a RAID 0 made up of 2 7200rpm Barracuda drives which gets me in the 150Mb/sec which is more capable of realtime playback. Since you mention that your GPU is a mobile one, then I assume you're on a laptop. My advice would be to suggest you put all your media on an SSD drive then.
Yes - I'm on as ASUS ROG laptop. Has beast specs... but the HDD is a 7200RPM 1Tb. I have a second bay for an SSD drive, but dont have one in there. So if I keep the 1TB for storage space and put in a 480Gb Sata 3 SSD should that cover it? I think I'm set on GPU, RAM, and CPU. What's the best Raid config? Should I store all media on the SSD? Should apps and OS go on the SSD too for load speed? Sorry for all of the q's - haven't done this before.
Thanks!
You need to decide if you're determined to work with CDNG raw files or if you're going to transcode to ProRes, DNxHD or some other compressed format.
If it's CDNG, then I think the media needs to live on the SSD drive. Unfortunately SSD drives aren't that big and are pricey. Ideally you'd want 2 SSD drives in that laptop, a 500Gb for media, and either a 240 or 500 for your apps.
IMHO 7200 rpm mechanical drives (particularly ones for laptops) are not going to give you a satisfactory performance when working with raw CDNG files.
Since I'm still yet to successfully pull off a Davinci --> Avid --> Davinci workflow, I'll probably stick with the Adobe route. I can import straight into Premiere, cut my film, shoot it to Speedgrade to color, then back to Premiere.. right? I'm also waiting to see what Davinci's NLE looks like too... so I will probably be sticking with Native CDNG just because I'm a dummy when it comes to all of the proxy/roundtrip stuff....
Would it be better to buy one 1TB SSD drive or 2 500Gb SSD's? Looks like a pair of 500Gb's would run $500 and one 1Tb would run about $400.
It is a shot in the dark, but I hope someone from Adobe will respond. If anyone wants to add to it, that would be greatly appreciated:
https://forums.adobe.com/message/6482710#6482710
What Raw2Cdng Converter are you using? or is it RawMagic ?
From my test the only 16bit Cdng the works is the raw2cdng v1.4.9 from chmee
RawMagic has the pink hi-light problem also, it's because the color matrix has been change
to emulate blackmagic cinema camera etc... so I have found that raw2cdng v1.4.9 dose not have this
change. And to note there also work perfectly in Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1.
Just try a different converter and see if it's still a problem.
Quote from: actingnurse on June 21, 2014, 10:19:18 PM
Would it be better to buy one 1TB SSD drive or 2 500Gb SSD's? Looks like a pair of 500Gb's would run $500 and one 1Tb would run about $400.
I didn't realize there are 1Tb SSD drives available already. Pretty cool actually, do you have a link you can post to the one you're looking at?
But to answer your question, I think it's preferable to have 1 drive for apps and OS, and 1 for nothing but your media.
Quote from: reddeercity on June 22, 2014, 06:49:24 AM
What Raw2Cdng Converter are you using? or is it RawMagic ?
From my test the only 16bit Cdng the works is the raw2cdng v1.4.9 from chmee
RawMagic has the pink hi-light problem also, it's because the color matrix has been change
to emulate blackmagic cinema camera etc... so I have found that raw2cdng v1.4.9 dose not have this
change. And to note there also work perfectly in Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1.
Just try a different converter and see if it's still a problem.
I am using Rawmagic, but pink highlights or not - I still want to use ACR.
Quote from: reddeercity on June 22, 2014, 06:49:24 AM
What Raw2Cdng Converter are you using? or is it RawMagic ?
From my test the only 16bit Cdng the works is the raw2cdng v1.4.9 from chmee
I'm importing and using the CDNGs just fine (minus the non realtime playback issue b/c of not having a SSD) using raw2cdng 1.5.0 beta 6 on Adobe Premiere CC 2014. Hopefully speed issues will be resolved when I pick up a couple of SSDs.
Quote from: Midphase on June 22, 2014, 06:59:24 AM
I didn't realize there are 1Tb SSD drives available already. Pretty cool actually, do you have a link you can post to the one you're looking at?
Here's the 1TB SSD from Seagate that I plan on adding. May pick up two and replace my 1TB HDD... Would that make a big difference?
Link to SSD: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE1T0BW/dp/B00E3W16OU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403483168&sr=8-1&keywords=1tb+ssd (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE1T0BW/dp/B00E3W16OU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403483168&sr=8-1&keywords=1tb+ssd)
It appears they are working on a fix:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1500841
I hope it works out in our favor.
@DFM
thanks for your information , But there is still no Video preview with Premiere Pro 8 cc & A.E. cc 2014 .
I have tried to get my Blackmagic Ultra Studio SDI to work on 2 different PC's(win7 pro) (installed new driver etc..). One's my i7 Toshiba laptop with dual gpu's (gt630m,intelHD4000). The Blackmagic Ultra Studio SDI comes up in the video preview box but nothing happens just black screen!
The other was my PC Workstation AMD FX8350 dual GPU's GTX580 (did not come up in video preview box) And on the my MacPro mid2010 (maverick-10.9.1) with GTX760 my AJA Kona Lhi dose not come up either. But with A.E. cc (12.2.1.5) work prefect , on PC & Mac. No problem with any other software on the mac or pc.
This is to bad for I was going to start a new project I shot on the weekend (green screen music video in Raw) but I can't monitor properly.
So until Adobe can fix this It's a open exr-->autodesk smoke for mac project or BM Resolve . I do what to put Adobe in my workflow but, not on a
broken software. The adobe forum is full of people with problems right now, I guess Resolve is looking better and better every day now just need them to release it.
I can not recommend people to use this software in a professional environment at the monument in my own opinion that is.
Has anyone tried to do a Dynamic Link from CDNG clips in Premiere to Aftereffects?
In my tests, the CDNG sequence comes into Aftereffects as a single frozen frame and doesn't playback. The solution that I found is to replace the footage in Aftereffects after the Dynamic Linking with the CDNG sequence, but this is a clunky workaround.
Does anyone know if there's a way to send a Dynamic Link to Aftereffects where things actually work as they should?
@Midphase
Looks like others are discussing this on the adobe blogs https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1503256 :(
Seems that the best workflow for me is still to grade in ACR, render HQ 444 DNxHD proxies, edit in Pr, re-link footage to CDNG sequence and do a final grade in SG. Just so bloody hard to get the look I am after in SG after so many years of ACR :)
About the disk issue, its worth noting that many high-end laptops have an available mPci slot that can hold an additional SSD making for a total of 3 drives (when replacing the optical drive with a caddy)
In this way, one could run 2x 512gb SSD + a 1TB 7200 (possibly a hybrid-drive) to keep the cost a bit lower.
I'm switching to Resolve 11. After watching the video of the new NLE capabilities, I'm convinced that Resolve will do 90% of what I need to do.
For having actually invented the format, Adobe sure has a weird way of supporting CDNG.
I think your right, I will give Resolve 11 a workout with my new project and see what happen,
just downloading now ;D
Why do i get those strange lines in Speedgrade with my cDNG files, converted with RawMagic in 16 bit, converted in prores with AE ???
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/LINES/lines-1.png)
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/LINES/lines-2.png)
(http://pimpmypixels.fr/CLOUD/LINES/lines-3.png)
Nobody here ? :(
if you stretch a range of values, this happens. in this case i would call it academic problem. (did you converted to prores 10 or 12bit at least? with 8bit data i'd call it real world problem :) you'd lose nearly all benefits..)
Its a cDN 16bits file converted in ProRes 4444 using AE...