Magic Lantern Forum

General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: comurit on April 30, 2014, 07:22:13 PM

Title: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: comurit on April 30, 2014, 07:22:13 PM
I can't make my mind up whether to get a 5D or a black magic.
I will use it for short film, any advice will be appriciated.
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: PressureFM on April 30, 2014, 07:41:37 PM
What do you have doubts about?
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: comurit on April 30, 2014, 08:25:21 PM
What do you have doubts about?

I have heard people having  all sorts of problems with black magic cameras, so I was wondering if it is really worth getting one.
 I wuold like to know if the raw file that both camera deliver is it the same? dynamic range and stuff like this.
Secondly I can't really manage to edit with resolve as my macbook pro 15 is an old 2009 one.
I have been working with raw file using AE with no problems using a canon 60D.
Which one would you go for?
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: Midphase on April 30, 2014, 09:03:54 PM
Since I've been pondering the same question, I can give you some hopefully useful thoughts to consider.

First of all, let's assume that still photography isn't important for you. Let's also assume that money is not a deciding factor.

You can get your hand on a 5D3 nowadays for around $2500 (plus or minus $200 depending how much you like buying from eBay retailers). Add about $400 to that for a few CF cards and maybe another $100 for a couple of batteries. Total cost is within $3500 for a camera you can go out and shoot with.

Blackmagic 4K is $3k for the body, add another $350 for about 3 SSD 128Gb drives. Now here's the catch...you absolutely will need an external battery unless you're planning on only shooting indoors. So you really need to add $300-500 at least for that. Total cost is within $4000 for a camera you can go out and shoot with.

Dynamic range is roughly in the same ballpark, about 11 stops with maybe the 5D3 having a slight edge over the Blackmagic.

If you're planning on shooting in low-light conditions and with only available light, then the Blackmagic won't work for you. The ISO400 is not sensitive enough for anything less than a well lit indoor, or daytime exterior. You won't be able to push the footage in post without massive noise. If your bulk of shooting is nighttime, dark interiors etc, you will need the 5D3.

How important is resolution for you? 4K is much more future proof, but right now it's simply overkill unless you're planning massive re-framing in post.

The 5D3 full size sensor is both a blessing and a curse. I can tell you that most pro DP's despise it and much prefer the Super-35mm sized APS-C.

Both cameras can be reliable and unreliable. They both can suffer from dropped frames, with the 5D3 having a slight advantage in the sense that you can set it up to stop recording if frames are dropped (which is not possible with the Blackmagic).

Blackmagic has inputs for 1/4" audio lines, however the in-camera levels are poorly implemented and the build-in amp crappy. Still, it's a bit more "pro" than going into the mini-jack on the 5D3.

How important is it for you to use an external monitor? The Blackmagic monitor kinda sucks, especially in bright light. The 5D3 monitor is kinda small and annoying to pull focus, particularly with a full frame sensor. If you plan on using an external monitor with the Blackmagic, do know that you'll need one with SDI inputs which might push the price up (no HDMI out on the BMPC).

Lastly, how important is it to be inconspicuous when you shoot? A well rigged Blackmagic will look more "pro" than a handheld DSLR in public places.

Depending how important the above points are, should make it pretty clear on which camera you should buy.

P.S.

You will need a faster computer than what you have either way. Resolve is CPU and most importantly GPU hungry. I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 2012 model.
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: comurit on April 30, 2014, 09:46:10 PM
Since I've been pondering the same question, I can give you some hopefully useful thoughts to consider.

First of all, let's assume that still photography isn't important for you. Let's also assume that money is not a deciding factor.

You can get your hand on a 5D3 nowadays for around $2500 (plus or minus $200 depending how much you like buying from eBay retailers). Add about $400 to that for a few CF cards and maybe another $100 for a couple of batteries. Total cost is within $3500 for a camera you can go out and shoot with.

Blackmagic 4K is $3k for the body, add another $350 for about 3 SSD 128Gb drives. Now here's the catch...you absolutely will need an external battery unless you're planning on only shooting indoors. So you really need to add $300-500 at least for that. Total cost is within $4000 for a camera you can go out and shoot with.

Dynamic range is roughly in the same ballpark, about 11 stops with maybe the 5D3 having a slight edge over the Blackmagic.

If you're planning on shooting in low-light conditions and with only available light, then the Blackmagic won't work for you. The ISO400 is not sensitive enough for anything less than a well lit indoor, or daytime exterior. You won't be able to push the footage in post without massive noise. If your bulk of shooting is nighttime, dark interiors etc, you will need the 5D3.

How important is resolution for you? 4K is much more future proof, but right now it's simply overkill unless you're planning massive re-framing in post.

The 5D3 full size sensor is both a blessing and a curse. I can tell you that most pro DP's despise it and much prefer the Super-35mm sized APS-C.

Both cameras can be reliable and unreliable. They both can suffer from dropped frames, with the 5D3 having a slight advantage in the sense that you can set it up to stop recording if frames are dropped (which is not possible with the Blackmagic).

Blackmagic has inputs for 1/4" audio lines, however the in-camera levels are poorly implemented and the build-in amp crappy. Still, it's a bit more "pro" than going into the mini-jack on the 5D3.

How important is it for you to use an external monitor? The Blackmagic monitor kinda sucks, especially in bright light. The 5D3 monitor is kinda small and annoying to pull focus, particularly with a full frame sensor. If you plan on using an external monitor with the Blackmagic, do know that you'll need one with SDI inputs which might push the price up (no HDMI out on the BMPC).

Lastly, how important is it to be inconspicuous when you shoot? A well rigged Blackmagic will look more "pro" than a handheld DSLR in public places.

Depending how important the above points are, should make it pretty clear on which camera you should buy.

P.S.

You will need a faster computer than what you have either way. Resolve is CPU and most importantly GPU hungry. I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 2012 model.

That  was explained very well, thank you very much indeed, I really mean it.
 I think I will get the 5D as I am already used to canon and magic lantern.
As for the price I will get it in Japan Tokio , mapcamera has the best price around 1900 euro plus they will refund the tax for non resident ,  mapcamera deals also used item I could get an used one for around 1600 much better than B&H. And the second stuff from japanese people are very reliable. I am a flight attendant I usually buy stuff in Japan.
I really love how the 5D behaves with low light, as for the pro I don't really care to look pro as long as I am happy with the result.
Which card do you recommend? lexar 64gb? how many minutes can you record with that 1920x1080 raw?
What about the panasonic GH4 or the sony A7s?
thank you again , have a nice one.
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: PressureFM on April 30, 2014, 10:00:22 PM
Midphase, do you actually have the BMPC?

UHD will make for great Full HD footage, not to mention global shutter.
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: ATP on May 01, 2014, 10:56:14 AM
That  was explained very well, thank you very much indeed, I really mean it.
 I think I will get the 5D as I am already used to canon and magic lantern.
As for the price I will get it in Japan Tokio , mapcamera has the best price around 1900 euro plus they will refund the tax for non resident ,  mapcamera deals also used item I could get an used one for around 1600 much better than B&H. And the second stuff from japanese people are very reliable. I am a flight attendant I usually buy stuff in Japan.
I really love how the 5D behaves with low light, as for the pro I don't really care to look pro as long as I am happy with the result.
Which card do you recommend? lexar 64gb? how many minutes can you record with that 1920x1080 raw?
What about the panasonic GH4 or the sony A7s?
thank you again , have a nice one.

Hey Comurit,

Through my experience from using both cameras I think in this case you'd be more comfortable using the 5DMKIII. The bulkiness of the BMCC4K is a huge factor in the way you shoot. This isn't a camera that you can shoot with handheld at all. I would consider myself to be a "Run and gun" shooter, so if you'd categorize yourself as that then i'd go with the 5DMKIII. Like Midphase suggested above the battery life is another factor because the BMCC4K only gets about 60-90 minutes through the internal battery. Buying a external battery kit would add a additional $300-500 to costs.

As for memory cards I would suggest getting the 64gb KomputerBay cards from amazon. I've been using those ever since I started using RAW and they've been working like a charm.

Also the audio features in the BMCC4K unfortunately are horrible on a run and gun shoot. You can't monitor audio through the LCD screen and in my experience trying to shoot a event with it the audio is easily blown out if you don't set it correctly.

Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: PressureFM on May 01, 2014, 11:26:28 AM
The BMPC will take ANY 12-30V DC input using a standard barrel plug. That means you can buy dirt cheap Lithium-Ion, LifePo4 or any other 12V battery. Heck, you can even strap 12 normal NiMH batteries together for 12V. If you need to pay $300-400 for a battery solution, you are doing it wrong.

I'm not trying to defend the BMPC, it is faulty out of the box (FPN, Audio, low-light etc.), but it has its uses. Namely it produces beautiful images in a well-lit scene, UHD resolution and Global Shutter. Hopefully they will fix FPN and enable RAW soon ... but I can understand people have given up waiting or hoping for that to happen.
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: comurit on May 01, 2014, 03:51:04 PM
thanks to everyone, I think I made my mind up.
I will get a 5D.
cheerse!!!! :D
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: poromaa on May 01, 2014, 05:27:55 PM

The 5D3 full size sensor is both a blessing and a curse. I can tell you that most pro DP's despise it and much prefer the Super-35mm sized APS-C.


Interesting! Why?
Title: Re: 5D markiii or black magic camera 4k
Post by: tjaja on May 01, 2014, 07:38:25 PM
Because the sensor is just too big. crop sensor of 1.6 is too tight sometimes but the fullframe is making the vignetting and dof extreme.
1.3 crop would be ideal for me but thats really just taste.