Magic Lantern Forum

Using Magic Lantern => General Help Q&A => Duplicate Questions => Topic started by: jafa on March 14, 2014, 05:01:26 PM

Title: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 14, 2014, 05:01:26 PM
Dont know if this means anything as im just a noob with all this but I formatted my SD card in camera today which was running ML Raw , removed it and reinserted it and my camera had reverted back to standard firmware 113 from the ML Next version ,  cant find any ML on the camera and its runs without any cards in it at all , ive since now re installed and uninstalled ML twice just to make sure , the only reason i posted this cause I assumed I would never be able to get my camera back to run normally because of the Bootflag issue , but from what ive seen it seems to function just as it used to before I installed ML , feel free to enlighten me as ive already said im still very new to all of this.

Cheers
Jafa.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Room101 on March 15, 2014, 12:11:53 AM
I've registered to highlight this too. Same thing for me today, was running ML for 5dIII and firmware 1.2.3. Formatted both cards so there was no trace of ML, removed them and the camera still runs fine.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Levinson on March 15, 2014, 01:49:05 AM
there will most likely be a 1 to 2 second delay when waking up the camera from sleep which AFAIK is the only annoying trace of ML left behind (ala the altered bootflag).

A virgin camera will wake up instantly from sleep
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Audionut on March 15, 2014, 01:56:14 AM
Yes, the camera runs fine without ML installed.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 07:32:36 AM
there will most likely be a 1 to 2 second delay when waking up the camera from sleep which AFAIK is the only annoying trace of ML left behind (ala the altered bootflag).

A virgin camera will wake up instantly from sleep

I have two MK3's , one of which has never had ML on it and I ran some start up tests this morning , both cameras have exactly the same wake up duration , when I pulled the normal SD card out of the one which I had previously installed ML on it was even quicker than the other one .
From the limited tests ive run with ML raw installed the bootflag issue was something I had resigned to accept as the footage I can get just blows me away ML, IS for me, a keeper , this is just a bonus as in a year or two I will probably be selling these on and upgrading.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: walter_schulz on March 15, 2014, 07:46:56 AM
You are sure we're talking about the same thing?
"Wake up time" means the time the cam is ready for shooting (when pressing a button) after "Auto Power Off" timeout has been activated and cam gone to sleep.

Ciao
Walter
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 08:03:40 AM
Ive just ran a side by side test of that as well and the wake up from auto off (one minute) is exactly the same.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 08:07:58 AM
Well, are the cameras up again without delay or is there a 2 seconds wait?
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 08:20:22 AM
Well, are the cameras up again without delay or is there a 2 seconds wait?

NO , no two second delay on startup or wake up , as ive said I have two 5dmk3's one of which never had ML installed there is from the physical tests of pressing buttons at the same time no difference.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 08:29:12 AM
Sorry to insist on this one but this issue has to be confirmed:

If your cams are in sleep mode and you're half-pressing shutter release button are the cameras up and ready without delay or is there a 2 seconds gap after button pressed?

(I'm not asking if the cams are reacting the same way now.)
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 09:04:52 AM
Both cameras when half pressing the shutter button click on at the same time , and the live veiw screen comes on at the same time when button is depressed fully for recording they both start recording at the same time.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 09:07:35 AM
Did you try turning off and on the cameras with the on and off buttons? Should be a delay. Is there no delay at all in the cameras now? If there,s a dealy around 1-2 seconds before being able to get to use the camera from sleepmode maybe both cameras had ML installed.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 09:32:09 AM
Ive already done all that as ive explained in the posts above and ive owned both cameras from new for over a year now , I may be a noob here but I know my cameras and their  behaviors as I use them alot.
Im not here to jerk people around and I dont know how relevant this is , all I know is that by this method I got my camera back to 113 and it now behaves exactly the same from start up to record as its brother.

Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 09:38:56 AM
Remarkable.
Link to this please "standard firmware 113 from the ML Next version"
Thanks
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Don't get me wrong but you are the only person ever *not* having a 2 seconds delay on a bootflagged 5D3 coming back after sleep mode.

We're not in doubt there is no difference between your cams. But if there is no delay it may be either an incorrect statement/testing procedure on your side or something (I think) the developers may be very, very interested to investigate.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 09:52:16 AM
I know and that worries me , I didnt want to make a statement that ive found anything significant cause maybe I haven't

I do however know that this only works if I format the ML sd card in my camera , If I try to do this by formatting it on the pc , then I still get the lags at start up and wake up .

If I can borrow another camera today then I will film both mine together and you can make your own minds up. 
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 10:01:35 AM
Interesting. Did you format your SD by mistake while magic lantern was running in the camera or why did you get the idea to erase the SD while running ML?
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 10:14:24 AM
The delay will occur with a non-bootable card, too. Format the card on your computer (file system not FAT32 or EXFAT), format in cam after, boot up -> delay after sleep still there.

Problem is ...
5D3's bootflag can not - at time of writing - be removed in a safe way. And if the bootflag is set, there will be a delay leaving sleep mode.
On other cams you might just use ML for some time, even on a rented one, reset bootflag after and all traces/startup issues will be gone. -> No problems selling the cam or dealing with renting companies.

If your cam has the bootflag enabled and you have no issue with delay ... well, good riddle.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 10:24:10 AM
Maybe Jafa could give the exact procedures step by step? As I understand it goes like this?

1- Jafas 5d mark 3 running magic lantern suddenly gets his bootable SD card formatted containing the ML nightly build firmware.(Which version?) which is running on the camera. This means you erase ml while still in camera running the ml firmware? This usually isn,t a good thing to do.
2 - Removing the erased SD card an reinserting the erased SD-card back. Do you shut the camera off before this step or is it still on? Do you even have to put the SD card back in the camera? Wouldn,t it run fine from a CF card?
3 - Put the camera back on and the camera runs as normal without the bootflag issue?

Are these the steps you made?
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 10:26:18 AM
I don't believe investigating this procedure is helpful to corner the delay issue in any way.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 10:30:51 AM
Why not? Seems to me there is something in the procedure described causing this. Knowing the exact steps will likely reproduce the issue
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
We don't know (until now) for sure if the delay is happening on both cams or one of his cams or none of his cams.
I don't know how reproducing the steps will help here.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Audionut on March 15, 2014, 10:59:04 AM
Both cameras when half pressing the shutter button click on at the same time , and the live veiw screen comes on at the same time when button is depressed fully for recording they both start recording at the same time.

NO , no two second delay on startup or wake up , as ive said I have two 5dmk3's one of which never had ML installed there is from the physical tests of pressing buttons at the same time no difference.

Ive just ran a side by side test of that as well and the wake up from auto off (one minute) is exactly the same.

I think it is quite clear that the OP doesn't have a delay on startup.

If I can borrow another camera today then I will film both mine together and you can make your own minds up.

 :D
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 11:05:39 AM
No offence but I have been working with end users for some time and therefore drilled to never ever believe in something the user is telling if it fails sanity check.
Nothing is settled for me if the cam behaves in a unique way contradicting the very way ML works on every single other cam.

Still waiting for this one to be confirmed testing with a non-bootable card.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Audionut on March 15, 2014, 11:09:35 AM
The OP has run around in circles trying to satisfy every request in this thread.  And, has offered to record the action of both cameras.

Perhaps the judgement is best left out in this case. 

With video evidence, we can then move forward in either, showing the OP how s/he is mistaken, or, working to resolve the solution for all users.  ;)
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 11:14:59 AM
The OP has run around in circles trying to satisfy every request in this thread. 

I appriciate his efforts a lot and I hope he is still with us!

But there is an open issue (not tested yet) and the way the cams seems to work don't match the way the cams have to work. Do you have a different opinion?
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 11:16:23 AM
I could take a chance on testing on my cam. Still I want the steps described thoroughly to minimize the risks since it,s nothing I usually do.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 11:21:13 AM
Are you tryiing to test the delay issue?
It will require two cams. One with bootflag set, one without. As the OP has.
Or a single cam and someone able to remove the flag.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Danne on March 15, 2014, 11:25:20 AM
I have my 5d mark 3 with nightly build installed. There,s a 1,5 second bootflag-delay. If Jafa,s steps works I won,t need a comparison cam since the startup will be instant, around 0.2 seconds.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 11:34:56 AM
Strongly suggest not trying to mess up your cam.

OP can easily test this one without doing any harm.

-> Put ML enabled card in both cams. One has to boot up ML, one has not to boot up ML.
-> Remove ML folder and AUTOEXEC.BIN from card. One has to be stuck at bootup, one has to boot up.
If so: Yes, OP is right. Bootflag is set on one cam, not on both.

And after that he may test the delay issue with a cam card formated with an file system other than FAT32 or EXFAT using his computer and afterwards formating it in cam.
One cam should show a delay waking up from sleep using this card.

Devs: Please hit me with a big stick if I got this one wrong!
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
Ok looks like I messed up was testing cameras side by side without any cards in , no delay between them , formatted two cards put one in each , ran test side by side again and there is a delay on wake up compared to the other camera so I guess this means the bootflag is still there and open.
I apologize for causing a storm in a tea cup.

Im uploading a vid so you can judge for your selves. 
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 01:38:59 PM

Obviously the slower one is the one that had ML installed , again I apologize for wasting everyone's time.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Bassman2003 on March 15, 2014, 04:41:18 PM
Jafa, thank you for uploading this video.  The difference is there but quite minimal.  Great to see how little the difference is.

If I could ask a favor regarding this situation... Could you shoot a short video showing the top LCD of both cameras waking up from sleep in photo mode?  I have been wrestling with this bootflag thing for along time and am (maybe was) hesitiant to install ML to keep resale value intact.  It would help me and probably others to see exactly what the bootflag "issue" does.  I know it might be asking a bit but it would really help me out.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 05:11:42 PM
Read again: Up to 2 seconds delay waking up from sleep.


Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 05:31:31 PM
again I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

No harm done, riddle solved and thanks for feedback!

Ciao
Walter
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: jafa on March 15, 2014, 09:01:29 PM
Jafa, thank you for uploading this video.  The difference is there but quite minimal.  Great to see how little the difference is.

If I could ask a favor regarding this situation... Could you shoot a short video showing the top LCD of both cameras waking up from sleep in photo mode?  I have been wrestling with this bootflag thing for along time and am (maybe was) hesitiant to install ML to keep resale value intact.  It would help me and probably others to see exactly what the bootflag "issue" does.  I know it might be asking a bit but it would really help me out.

Thanks!

Not at this time sorry , ive just reinstalled ML on the camera and ive done the reinstall - uninstall process 4 times over the past two days and every time I do it its nerve racking , for my money its worth installing ML as the Raw footage is beautiful to work with and once uninstalled there is almost no noticeable difference in wake up time as the vid shows ,as for stills I cant comment as I never tested that side when I uninstalled ML.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
I have been wrestling with this bootflag thing for along time

Wrestling time is over:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9827.msg106632#msg106632

Ciao
Walter
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Bassman2003 on March 15, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
Thank you for the link.  So as I read the thread, ML can now be installed with Firmware 1.23 and you can reset the bootflag "issue" if you want to uninstall it?  Is this correct?
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Walter Schulz on March 15, 2014, 10:14:57 PM
Yes. You have to wait for the new build or compile the code by yourself.
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Bassman2003 on March 15, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Great.  Thank you.  I have waited this long, I can wait a little longer! :)
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Stedda on March 16, 2014, 07:03:09 AM
ML for 1.2.3 is available on the Nightly Builds page as of yesterday....
Title: Re: 5D mk3 back to firmware 113
Post by: Bassman2003 on March 16, 2014, 02:22:15 PM
Thank you Stedda and no worries Jafa!