Author Topic: Wanted: temperatures from your cams  (Read 55355 times)

escho

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Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« on: December 25, 2013, 08:16:45 PM »
Introduction

MagicLantern show temperatures, which are metered somewhere in the camerabody. In canon-firmware, these temeratures are called efic_temp, so maybe they are metered on the efic_chip. These efic_temp-values are raw values, which have to be converted to Celsius or Fahrenheit for to know, what they mean. This convertion is done by MagicLantern.

For the convertion, a mathematical function is needed. And tests are needed to find out this function. These tests have to be done for all types of camera, because it is hardly probable, that all cameras show a steady behaviour.

There are two sorts of tests, which can be done


1.
You can meter the temperatures in the camera-body with a infrared thermometer. With these temperatures and the corresponding efic_temps, you can develop a function. Done!
A little problem is, that not so many guys own an infrared thermometer, I guess. And when you have such a thermometer, where exactly in the camerabody do you want to meter the temeratures?

2.
If you take a picture, a temperature is written into exif-data. I don´t know, where the temperature-sensor is located, canon uses for the exifs. Maybe, it is the efic_temp-sensor, maybe it is another one. But no matter what sensor it is, the temperature-values are in the exifs. And it is much easier to extract these temperatures from the exifs, than metering temperatures with a thermometer, which you don´t have.

So I decided to use the second methode with the exifs to find out the convert-functions. But I have only a nice little 600D. For this camera I can do this test. But for all other cameras, I need your help.

How can you help testing


1. preparation

1.1 Take a piece of paper and write down the camera-name and the firmware-version, you have.
1.2 Write down, which ML-build you use during the test

2. testing

2.1 Turn on your camera in video-mode and start recording a normal mov-video to heat the camera
2.2 While recording, push the shutter release from time to time, to capture a CR2- or jpec-pic.
2.3 In the debug menue, you can see the camera-temperatures.
2.4 Write down Celsius (if available) and raw-temperature in the moment, you take a picture.
2.5 I at least need exif-temperatures from 20°C to 60°C to be able to work out accurate converting-functions.
2.6 The video-lenght will be 30 minutes, maybe more to get enough temperature-values.

3. test finished

3,1 Download the pictures to your harddisk
3.2 Extract the exif-temperatures from these pictures
3.2.1 On linux you can do this in a terminal: exiftool -CameraTemperature *.CR2
3.2.2 On windows and mac, I don´t know, how to do this
3.3 Write down these exif-temperatures with the corresponding ML-temperatures, you have listed before.

4. Contributing

4.1 Show your measurements here in this thread.
4.2 Write down the ML-temperatures and the corresponding exif-temperatures. Follow this form:
4.3 raw-temperature     Celsius (if available)     temperature extracted from the exif-files
4.3 Use code-tags for your list

And the results?


The functions, created with your help, will be used to show more accurate temperatures in ML.

Why do I want to do this testing-stuff?

Easy to say:
I´m using raw-video for my astonomical shootings. And to are sure, saturn is and stay in focus, I regard the camera-monitor. But it don´t make me happy, what I see there:

0 minutes: Start recording: All is fine, temperature normal, 10°C
3 minutes: temp grows, expected behavior
5 minutes: next video, 40°C and temperature grows
6 minutes: 50°C, ML-temperature warning is coming
8 minutes: 60"C, ML-warning becomes red!
20 minutes: 70°C, I begin suffering from nerves
25 minutes: 75°C, I need a beer
30 minutes: 80°C, I need more alcohol to endure the pain regarding the camera-temperatur

I want my liver to stay healthy. So I don´t want to see this 80°C on the display. 60°C would be enough, especially because exiftool tells me, this 80°C are in reality only 60°C.  :)


Cameras tested up to now

1100D by dmilligan
1200D by m1k6
5D2 by SpcCb
5D3 by RenatoPhoto, alex
50D by ayshih
500D by Hey, Tralfaz
550D by stoopkid
6D by 1percent, zloe
60D by dmilligan
600D by escho
650D by Walter Schulz
700D by mk11174
7D by Walter Schulz, RenatoPhoto
EOS-M by gmalin54, dfort

The plots can be seen here: https://seescho.wordpress.com/2016/04/24/temperaturanzeige-mit-magiclantern/

Tests from other users for these cams are welcome.
And tests for other cams are welcome too.
And remember, only cameras, testerd by you, will show celsius and or fahrenheit, created from your test-results, all other cams only show raw-values


Thanks for you help
 :)
Edgar

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2013, 08:17:18 PM »
Please use this form for your temperatur-values, first column for ML-temparature, the second column for temp from the exifs

EOS600D, firmware 1.02, build self compiled from ML-sources 25.12.2013

Code: [Select]
13 17
21 25
26 27
29 30
31 28
36 35
38 37
41 37
43 38
46 40
48 42
49 40
51 41
56 43
58 46
60 47
61 48
65 48
68 51
69 53
72 54
75 55
80 57
79 58
81 59
83 60

Edgar

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 11:25:30 AM »
With "ML temperature" you refer to the red framed item, right?



If so:
7D ML v2.3.NEXT.2013Dec20.7D203
No list because there is no difference between EXIF data and ML display data between 21 and 58 degrees Celsius.

Ciao
Walter

PS: Tested with 650D but got very strange results. Have to verify the data. After reading the results I'm in doubt ML and Canon are using the same sensor at all.

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 01:51:58 PM »
5D3 Self compiled:

magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Dec24.5D3113

First temp is readout from camera
second temp is from exif tool in windows using:   exiftool -CameraTemperature *.CR2

Code: [Select]
19 22
23 23
26 24
26 26
26 26
28 27
28 27
33 28
33 29
33 29
33 30
38 31
38 31
38 32
38 32
42 33
42 34
42 34
42 35
42 36
44 36
44 36
44 36
44 37
44 37
44 37
44 37
44 38
47 39
47 39
47 39
47 39
47 39
47 40
47 40
47 40
54 41
53 41
53 41
53 41
53 41
53 41
53 41
53 42
53 42
55 42
55 42
55 42
55 43
55 43
54 43
54 43
54 43
54 43
54 44
56 44
56 44
56 44
56 44
56 44
56 45
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 02:16:38 PM »
Whatever these data may be worth ...

650D, Nightly Build
magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Dec26.650D104
Code: [Select]
27   31
30   36
35   38
40   44
44   50
43   42
41   46
44   46
48   53
51   53

Ciao
Walter

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 03:36:26 PM »
Hi

Could you provide some higher temps, too? This would be fine to improve the accuracy of the resulting funktion.

Looks like for 7D x-128 is valid (as it is handled now), but the other cams need some other functions.

ThankYou for helping

Edgar

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 04:52:38 PM »
Could you provide some higher temps, too?

Put cam on top of radiator right now ...
Anyway: You are sure Canon and ML are reading the very same sensor?

Ciao
Walter

Code: [Select]
53   54
56   56
56   59
54   60
57   62
57   62

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 08:04:45 PM »
Radiator? No, not necessary. Don´t stress your cam :) :) :)

But, if you one day take a longer video and see the temperatures growing very high, then write them down for the test with according cr2s, if this is possible. The more spreaded the values are, the more accurate will be the results.

No, I´m not sure at all, that the values come from the same sensor. Same sensors would be fine. But if I can definy a linear math function between the (maybe) two sensors, this would be enough, too. For my 600D, I have such a function, for the 7D,the function seems to be x - 128. For other cameras I need many measured wide spreaded values to work out such functions.

Using these functions, ML will show nearly the exif-temps. and these exif-temps are the temperatures, I want to know, because I can compare them with the temperatures from all my other pictures.

Just seen, your 650D has funny temperature values.

Edgar

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 08:07:21 PM »

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 09:40:27 PM »
Whatever these data may be worth ...

650D, Nightly Build
magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Dec26.650D104
Code: [Select]
27   31
30   36
35   38
40   44
44   50
43   42
41   46
44   46
48   53
51   53

Ciao
Walter

Walter, the first temperatures are the temps. shown by ML? That would mean, exif-temperatures are higher than ML-temperatures in your 650D?

Edgar

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 09:49:08 PM »
You got it right, Edgar!
There is only one dataset (6th: 43/42) where the Exif number is lower.

Ciao
Walter

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 09:59:53 PM »
OK! Thanks, Walter

@all: more temperatures needed  :)

Edgar

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 10:06:38 PM »
Put the cam outside into the cold^h^h^h^h warm spring air.
Code: [Select]
16   16
16   17
16   17
19   18

I don't trust these numbers at all ...
If someone with a 650D and a little time is able to redo this test ...
would be helpful.

Ciao
Walter

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 10:36:35 PM »
Updated plot for 650D (see reply 8 )

Edgar

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 07:23:32 PM »
Updated plot for 600D (plots are in reply 8 )

@all: input needed

Edgar

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 08:40:45 PM »
I,ve updated to first post of this thread to let you know, why I´m doing this tests

Edgar

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2013, 02:46:56 AM »
A little higher temps

5D3 Self compiled:

magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Dec24.5D3113

First temp is readout from camera
second temp is from exif tool in windows using:   exiftool -CameraTemperature *.CR2

Code: [Select]
40 33
43 34
44 36
51 38
48 38
53 43
59 44
63 48
68 48
68 52
70 52
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

ilguercio

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2013, 03:03:55 AM »
I am curious, what do you need to know the actual temperature for?
Canon EOS 6D, 60D, 50D.
Sigma 70-200 EX OS HSM, Sigma 70-200 Apo EX HSM, Samyang 14 2.8, Samyang 35 1.4, Samyang 85 1.4.
Proud supporter of Magic Lantern.

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2013, 11:15:11 AM »
A little higher temps

5D3 Self compiled:

Thanks, Renato. I will work these values tomorrow into the plot.

I am curious, what do you need to know the actual temperature for?

Can you ask in other words, please? My english and my dictionary isn´t good enough to understand, what you want to know.

Edgar

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2013, 11:22:26 AM »
Grobe Uebersetzung:
"Ich bin neugierig, fuer was Du die tatsaechlichen Temperaturangaben brauchst."
Also welcher eigentliche Sinn hinter der Uebung steckt.

Ciao, Walter

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
Grobe Uebersetzung:
"Ich bin neugierig, fuer was Du die tatsaechlichen Temperaturangaben brauchst."
Also welcher eigentliche Sinn hinter der Uebung steckt.

Ciao, Walter

Danke für die Übersetzung Walter.

I am curious, what do you need to know the actual temperature for?

I just wrote an answer to your question to the first post of this thread.

Edgar

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2013, 07:07:07 PM »

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2013, 09:27:29 PM »

Walter Schulz

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2013, 10:32:32 PM »
I made another test with my 650D. The data I get are pretty funny. I got datasets like 22 (ML) and 31 (exif).
I'm pretty convinced ML does not read the same sensor data as Canon is using for EXIF.
I had the cam outside again (about 8 deg. Celsius) for this test.

Wild guess: Makes sense if ML and Canon use different sensor output. Cam turned off for a while and all cam parts will have the same temperature. -> No (or small) difference between ML and Canon temperature at the beginning of meassurements. When running hot -> Difference will rise and then drop but you will see some gradation.
Don't have an environmental chamber to verify/falsify this one.

Maybe I got it all wrong but I have strong reservations those data will be of any use.

Is there someone around willing to tear down his/her 650D and use a IR cam and/or some coolant on PCB ...

Ciao
Walter (moderately confused)

escho

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Re: Wanted: temperatures from your cams
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2013, 10:45:47 PM »
Hi Walter

I´m just doing these test with heating the cam from outside and let acclimate it for some hours, before doing one single shot. Tomorrow I´m at work. There I will put the cam into a room, where big steam boilers are located. I think, I have 50° or 60°C there and a calibated thermometer. I´m  curious to see the results.

And for the 650D we will see. My wife has one, but she don´t want to have ML. (Man muß schauen, was man tun kann  8) )
Can you share your funny datasets? I,m pretty curious.

Edgar