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Author Topic: How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)  (Read 3773 times)

noisyboy

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Hey!

So basically I'm editing something I helped out on at the weekend while shooting with the Magic Lantern raw module and fancied playing around with FilmConvert but as any of you who have used FilmConvert (or even those that haven't) know - the way the plugin works (in layman's terms) is basically by knowing what the cameras footage should look like to begin with and then it re-maps the expected image into what it would look like on a film stock of your choosing.

This of course was going to be a problem for me as I have a lot of raw footage and there is no Canon/Magic Lantern raw profile (yet) for FilmConvert.

So I got on the old email to Lance over at FilmConvert and he said that they have been playing around and found that you get pretty damn close results when you choose 2012 camera calibration process inside of ACR. I'm waiting for him to let me know if this really matters as from what Andrew Reid from EOSHD has suggested - ACR 2012 process seems to do some weird automated stuff with highlights that you cannot control and that therefore 2010 is better. [edit: and also recomends choosing "embedded"]. I personally haven't had trouble with it and used 2012 with this anyway.

Then once you have dropped FilmConvert on top of your footage, you should select either the 5DmkIII VisionTech (another great reason VisionColor exist) or Prolost camera profiles.

Anyway - have a peep at this test and see what you think. Super quick edit with a handful of random shots (as I really should be doing some work... sshhh!). To show what the plugin looks like with the raw footage I applied no additional corrections or grading other than color-temp adjustments inside of ACR and a teeny tiny bit of sharpening.

I guess the real good news was that when I spoke to Lance, he said they had been playing and knew already how to get results so I guess they must be bubbling away in the lab or at least have plans for when the time is right (please for the love of god don't take this as gospel to mean that they are actually baking up a ML raw profile as I'm only speculating but it makes sense to me).

Oh yeah - shot at 1600x672 @25fps and upscaled to 1080x800

POW!


And another example of FilmConvert being used by Squig (although I have no idea what profiles he used but it still looks better than mine  ;) ):

« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 04:18:11 PM by noisyboy »
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

N/A

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 03:47:33 PM »
I used ACR's Canon neutral profile on the dng's and the Prolost setting in FM, seemed to work nicely. 600D wasn't an option in the version I was using so I chose 60D or 7D, a quick comparison showed them to be the same from what I remember.
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noisyboy

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 04:12:52 PM »
I used ACR's Canon neutral profile on the dng's and the Prolost setting in FM, seemed to work nicely. 600D wasn't an option in the version I was using so I chose 60D or 7D, a quick comparison showed them to be the same from what I remember.

Cool :) Even though I was told to use the 5DmkIII profiles I was actually inquiring about using a 6D so I guess the same applies?
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

noisyboy

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 04:16:04 PM »
I used ACR's Canon neutral profile on the dng's and the Prolost setting in FM, seemed to work nicely. 600D wasn't an option in the version I was using so I chose 60D or 7D, a quick comparison showed them to be the same from what I remember.

Also dude - forgot to mention in my above post that Lance recommends using the "embedded" profile. Interestingly, embeded is the only option I get when using ML DNG's...

Hmmm...   :-\
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

Hazer

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 06:07:03 PM »
I use FilmConvert and as noted above you can get in the ballpark by selecting a generic profile in ACR and selecting a "flat" profile in FilmConvert, such as VisionTech, Prolost, or Marvels.  But this is just an approximation.  Further, I don't know how reliable this will be moving forward.  "Embedded" as your only choice means that the name of your camera isn't correctly listed in the .dng image metadata.  You can use exiftool to list the metadata in one of your .dng images to see this.  Here's what I get on a .dng where the camera name is not correctly indicated:

Make                            : Canon
Camera Model Name     : Canikon
Orientation                   : Horizontal (normal)
Software                      : Magic Lantern

Later versions of raw2dng compiled specifically for the 5d2 list the correct camera name, like this:

Make                            : Canon
Camera Model Name     : Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Orientation                   : Horizontal (normal)
Software                       : Magic Lantern

As I understand it, ML raw does not currently embed the correct camera name at the time of recording, it is inserted afterward by raw2dng.  Someone can correct me on this.

Anyway, I don't know if there really is a profile embedded in the original dng image, or if this is simply a placeholder within ACR for some kind of default that it uses when it doesn't know how else to interpret your images.  A better route is to use a version of raw2dng which correctly identifies the camera model, so that ACR will supply a list of Canon-specific profiles, like Standard, Neutral, and so forth.  Bonus, this also means that you can use custom picture profiles such as those from VisionColor, directly within ACR.  I am beta testing VisionColor's Cinelook profile for ACR on ML raw footage, and it works well.

Currently, it would be great if FilmConvert could model one of the Canon-standard profiles within ACR, like Neutral, and use that as their starting point.  This should be reliably stable within ACR moving forward.

In the long run, it would be great to drop ML raw footage directly into Resolve or a timeline with no conversion, and have FilmConvert operate in its usual calibrated fashion on the raw files themselves.  It looks like Ginger HDR has direct-to-timeline working already in Premiere, so we're just about there.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 06:10:06 PM by Hazer »

noisyboy

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 08:16:40 PM »
I use FilmConvert and as noted above you can get in the ballpark by selecting a generic profile in ACR and selecting a "flat" profile in FilmConvert, such as VisionTech, Prolost, or Marvels.  But this is just an approximation.  Further, I don't know how reliable this will be moving forward.

Yup - totally agree :) This is not an exact way of getting where you want to be but as I was advised to use this method by FilmCOnvert themselves I figure - if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me :)

Thanks for the info on the metadata dude... I need to look more into this :)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 11:11:17 PM by noisyboy »
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

noisyboy

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 09:16:13 PM »
Bonus, this also means that you can use custom picture profiles such as those from VisionColor, directly within ACR.  I am beta testing VisionColor's Cinelook profile for ACR on ML raw footage, and it works well.

Ha! No way :) Jonathan sent me the Beta profile this morning! Can't wait to give it a whirl - those guys always know how to impress me. Shame I can't use the damn thing yet :(
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

Hazer

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 06:06:12 AM »
You should simply be able to upgrade to a newer version of raw2dng to get your .dngs to be recognized. so the profiles show up in ACR.  I'm on a 5d2 and those builds have had this straightened out for a several weeks now.

N/A

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 04:37:03 PM »
I had a problem with ACR's Canon profiles showing up on my macbook but not my imac, realized that I had installed Adobe DNG Converter on the Macbook only. Installed it on the iMac and they work perfectly.

I chose Neutral in ACR and Prolost in FM and adjust contrast accordingly, but my understanding is that FM compensates for lack of color in h264, but we don't have that issue with raw footage, correct? Which would mean a Raw profile in FM would be needed.

I'm jealous, I want to beta test VisionColor in ACR too lol. Raw grain plus VisionColor would be epic.

:edit: Should note that I'm converting the raw files with RawMagic, which lets you choose your cam model.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 04:39:32 PM by N/A »
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aaphotog

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 05:59:05 PM »
Ha! No way :) Jonathan sent me the Beta profile this morning! Can't wait to give it a whirl - those guys always know how to impress me. Shame I can't use the damn thing yet :(

think they'd allow you to post the profile?

noisyboy

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 10:15:14 PM »
think they'd allow you to post the profile?

I doubt it bud :) They're really nice and approachable people though so I'm sure they wont mind you asking.
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

edge11

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 05:45:11 AM »
I've been getting good results with using the vision log camera profile in acr with the bmcc setting in filmconvert.
any one else have a better way of doing it?

reddeercity

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 02:21:41 AM »
I have being using Film Convert pro in FCPX, with CDNG's native.
These are my settings: Source Camera = Red One, film stock= FJ 8553 ET
Size= 35mm Full Ap , film color, 70-100% & Grain 30-70 % or what you like
And I normally white balance before I apply the effect, but sometimes I I do it after.

frenchps49

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2014, 06:48:14 AM »
Film Convert have just added Canon 5Dmk3 ML Raw Profile in their latest update .

eyeland

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2014, 01:09:35 AM »
:edit: Should note that I'm converting the raw files with RawMagic, which lets you choose your cam model.
Thanks for the tip! This means that I can go back to using the raw module for that extra bit of performance until the mlv catches up. (main benefit of mlv for me was the inclusion of the exif that allowed the use of camera profiles)
Film Convert have just added Canon 5Dmk3 ML Raw Profile in their latest update .
Good news! I am sure this will land them a good few new costumers
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Markus

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2014, 02:56:17 AM »
Is that profile made for use with da vinci resolve? Im not fond of the look and encoding speeds you get out of ACR. Have been waiting for a profile that is based on dngs imported in BMD film mode in resolve with highlight recovery checked.

Like this guy does but without the lut.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 03:00:43 AM by Markus »

rebilith

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 07:20:22 AM »
@Markus
I have the EXACT same problem, I don't like the way ACR looks and it takes ages to process. It's not like it's impossible to do something awesome with ACR but it is not friendly to use. I'm dying to have some feedback on how the profile is working for 5d raw on filmconvert.
I only have a 6D as of now, so I can't try it out the way it's supposed to be... And to be honest I don't understand how they want us to get the file into premiere/ae without any processing. Maybe I need to inform myself a lot better. resolve version would make a lot more sense to me.

dubzeebass

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 03:49:28 PM »
Is that profile made for use with da vinci resolve? Im not fond of the look and encoding speeds you get out of ACR. Have been waiting for a profile that is based on dngs imported in BMD film mode in resolve with highlight recovery checked.

Like this guy does but without the lut.

Get Cinelog

Andy600

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 04:22:19 PM »
Thanks @dubzeebass :)

We haven't officially released the Cinelog for Resolve LUTs yet but for the next 24hrs we will send (via email) a complimentary copy with new purchases of CinelogDCP for ACR. Current customers should already have received an email from us. After this they will revert to separate products and a discounted bundle.

The feedback, especially from Resolve/Film Convert Users who are using our additional Cinelog to Log-C LUT has been fantastic :)

This is one comment we received today:

"I have been able to get some quite astonishing results in Resolve already, especially by rendering out as Log C and using the LogCFilm preset of Filmconvert. Spectacular!" - Martin. H

We can of course make images look good here but hopefully we'll have some real end-user results on the website soon.

600d & 50d / Manual lenses / Post in After Effects, Premier Pro and Davinci Resolve. Brit living in Latvia. Developer of CinelogDCP www.cinelogdcp.com

Markus

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2014, 11:07:10 PM »
What are the benefits of using cinelog over bmd-film mode in Resolve?

Andy600

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2014, 01:03:27 AM »
The LUTs are optimized for Magic Lantern Raw video and reproduce color better than when boosting RGB or adding saturation to BMD Film in Resolve. It's simple to grade using contrast/pivot and Log controls and easily converted to Log-C if you want to use ARRI Luts, work in ACES (Alexa IDT) or use Film Convert's Alexa LogC presets.

This is the kind of results one Cinelog user is getting quickly with Film Convert. Check out her skintones :)

600d & 50d / Manual lenses / Post in After Effects, Premier Pro and Davinci Resolve. Brit living in Latvia. Developer of CinelogDCP www.cinelogdcp.com

Markus

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 01:09:53 PM »
The LUTs are optimized for Magic Lantern Raw video and reproduce color better than when boosting RGB or adding saturation to BMD Film in Resolve. It's simple to grade using contrast/pivot and Log controls and easily converted to Log-C if you want to use ARRI Luts, work in ACES (Alexa IDT) or use Film Convert's Alexa LogC presets.

Kewl, sounds really good will check it out. =)

edge11

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2014, 12:57:57 PM »
I'm getting good results with using the vision log acr profile, setting the contrast slider all the way to the left in acr and then using the 5d mark III raw setting in film convert.

beauchampy

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2014, 02:17:21 PM »
Been playing with Cinelog, exporting to LogC and using that preset inside of Film Convert. Getting some very nice results. I have a project sitting here shot on a 5D mk II which I will grade using this method in the next few days.. Will post my results.

MGerard

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How to get FilmConvert working "the right way" with ML raw :)
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2014, 09:48:06 PM »
I tried out Filmconvert on LogC footage from Resolve/Cinelog, but it doesn't look so promising. Also doesn't look so good on original Alexa material (you can easily find different types of Alexa demo clips on the web) - please correct me if I'm wrong. The safest bet is to use it on top of the finished primary CC with the Default/sRGB profile.