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Author Topic: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video  (Read 166536 times)

iaremrsir

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2013, 07:53:45 AM »
For the cineon curve option, is it optimized for compression like Protune is? I tried conversion with the same file twice: once on default, and once on cineon. The cineon file looked terrible. The detail was gone and the compression artifacts were pretty bad. Changing the debayer method didn't help either. It just exaggerated the artifacts. The default settings worked fine though. However it still seems like I was able to get more detail by using raw2dng, then using CF Studio to convert the DNG files. Other than that, conversion was quite snappy as always and the auto white balance worked like a charm. Also the .5 for sat clip point seems to be the sweet spot of sorts. For every ML Raw clip I've brought in, I had to have it at or near .5, otherwise I got hot pink or lime green highlights.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2013, 08:34:24 AM »
"... seems like I was able to get more detail by using raw2dng, then using CF Studio to convert the DNG files. "

This doesn't make sense, same process internally. Likely subtle metadata differences -- you can copy settings from one clip to another.

Cineon was left over from the tool I ripped the code from, I never really tested that path. The Cineon curve was not designed for compression, it is film density emulation.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 09:25:30 AM by DANewman »

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2013, 09:27:26 AM »
Happy to give it a try David, do you still need some .raw files?

Did you take a look at the BMDfilm output curve? Do you think it would be possible to get that as output so that I can grade in Resolve with a flat image (like the bmdfilm)?

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2013, 09:43:01 AM »
Already found a bug..,kinda :)

I always record in 1928 width because we have 2 lines garbage on the left. recording 1928 and cutting 7 pixel on the left and 1 pixel on the right gives exactly the same FOV as a CR2 still. But if I convert this raw with the converter and want to play it back the program crashes. Be it the quicktime player or gopro studio or windows media player when trying an avi.
I tried to crop it via parameter but seem to do it wrong? How are the parameters? is -(7,0,1926,959) correct?

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2013, 06:20:35 PM »
This code has too few legal range checks, so you can tell it so do things the codec can't support.  First you can't use odd numbers for the windowing as the image is CFA RAW, color pattern is an even number repeat -- technically I could switch the bayer phase to handle odd numbers -- currently values these are rounded.  Next the codec likes horizontal encodes of a 16 multiple and vertical of 2.  So this should work -(8,0,1928,960) -- except I introduced a bug it doesn't.  Fix coming.

I did have a look at the BMDFilm output curve, and it is a little odd.  It is likely has BMD sensor calibration stuff in it, the curve we use for Protune and others, mathematically models the mapping of linear to log and back again, the BMD curve don't fit our models. PanaLog, S-Log, C-Log, Protune etc. are all nice mathematical equations, but not BMD. If we were to use that curve natively, either a lot of code changes to the codec, or an approximation of the curve would produce (mild) color errors in the matrix, white balance and saturation (all the linear light operations.) 

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2013, 06:25:48 PM »
I now have my 5D3 running RAW, although with tiny images until I get new media.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2013, 06:57:21 PM »
New build of RAW2GPCF (RAW to GoPro CineForm)

Direct download for RAW2GPCF:  http://miscdata.com/ML/RAW2GPCF.zip  (I replaced the odd link)
The old v1.00 build is now here  http://miscdata.com/ML/RAW2GPCFv100.zip

Unzip are install here: C:\Program Files (x86)\CineForm\Tools

To run:

open a shell, and RAW2GPCF at the prompt

M:\cameras\CanonMagicLantern>raw2gpcf
Usage: raw2gpcf inputfile.raw output.mov|avi [switches]
       -422- Encode to YUV 4:2:2 (default RAW.)
       -444- Encode to RGB 4:4:4 (default RAW.)
       -c  - use Cineon curve (black 95, white 685)
       -cbX- use Cineon curve with 'X' black point (default 95.)
       -cwX- use Cineon curve with 'X' white point (default 685.)
       -dX - use debayer type 1-softest thru 4-sharpest (default auto)
       -fX - the framerate override for AVI|MOV media.
       -gX - use gamma curve
       -iX - in point, start processing on frame X (default 0, disables audio.)
       -lX - use log curve of power X (GoPro Protune.)
       -oX - out point, e.g. -o10 would precess 0 thru 9 (default infinite.)
       -qX - the encoding quality for AVI|MOV (default 4, range 1-5.)
       -sX - skip every 'x' frames (default 0).
       -(x1,y1,x2,y2)  - window source Top Left (x,y) to Bottom Right (x2,y2)
  examples: raw2gpcf M00000004.raw NewRAW5.avi
            raw2gpcf new422.AVI M0000005.RAW -d1 -q3 -422
            raw2gpcf new444.AVI M0000005.RAW -d3 -q5 -444
            raw2gpcf V:\Conversions\newRAW.AVI E:\M0000052.RAW -l400 -d2 -q5
  RAW2GPCF version: 1.01 May 27, '13, (c)2013 GoPro.


Feature additions:
-444 : performs the demosaic and encodes to 4:4:4 (requires a GoPro Studio Premium license.)
-422 : performs the demosaic and encodes to 4:2:2 (requires a free install of GoPro CineForm Studio -- Premium not needed.) and is limited to 1920x1080 under the free encoder license.

Both these new modes are still RAW for color processing, only the demosaic is baked. While the 4:2:2 option will be popular for cost-conscious, the image development controls for RAW are more flexible in the Premium level GUI.

Also 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 modes are slower than the default RAW transcodes.  RAW has the greatest flexibililty as I do want to add more demoasicing options in the future.

Bugs:
This fixes a crash in the windowing switch.

N/A

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2013, 07:26:18 PM »
Gotta love the support companies are already showing for ML raw, much appreciated.

Canon might want to take note...
7D. 600D. Rokinon 35 cine. Sigma 30 1.4
Audio and video recording/production, Random Photography
Want to help with the latest development but don't know how to compile?

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2013, 07:47:44 PM »
This is hardly an official company supported tool, just something I did on the side.  Yet GoPro does support transcoding other cameras, so I used the code base for the Vision Research Phantom transcoder as the .cine files are very like .RAW.  Don't expect this tool to become part of a regular software distribution. Yet notice how this tool requires you to have GoPro software, so it is a win-win I feel. ;)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 08:02:03 PM by DANewman »

N/A

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2013, 08:07:59 PM »
Ahh, gotcha. Good point though, our raw workflow options (especially mac) are quite limited.
7D. 600D. Rokinon 35 cine. Sigma 30 1.4
Audio and video recording/production, Random Photography
Want to help with the latest development but don't know how to compile?

Apples

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2013, 12:03:33 AM »
Hi David,
I tested the RAW2GPCF tool it work great thanks and its mighty fast, are their plans for a GUI and batch converting or the ultimate would be drag your .RAW files/folder into GPCF studio tweak then output CF Raw. I know you said that we should not expect this as part of the regular studio package but if it were included in the PRO $299 version I would buy that in a flash and other people might feel the same as it would save immensely on time spent on getting to the edit phase. I see this RAW development as something which is just going to explode in the next few months the workflow will become integral in its expansion and popularity and whoever get the workflow down and simple will have a fairly large consumer following i believe. My two cents.       

platu

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2013, 07:44:27 AM »
In the meantime, I need feedback on the current tool.

The first thing that I would say is that it is very FAST.  I spent practically a full day working through the typical Raw2dng -> ACR -> After Effects workflow on 100+ GB of raw footage I shot this weekend.   It was enough to really turn me off to the adobe workflow.  I decided to spend a bit more time with Cineform Studio once I noticed you posted a new conversion tool.  Initially, I did find ACR to be easier to work with and still do, but the time savings of using your new tool makes it worth the extra effort in my opinion.   I mean, let's face it, using RAW2GPCF  is magnitudes faster if  your goal is to get your footage into your NLE quickly, not to mention the benefits and flexibility you gain by keeping everything as raw files.  The ACR/After Effects workflow may be fine for those doing personal projects with limited amounts of footage to process, but completely inadequate for most paid work if time is at all a factor.  Batch processing is desperately needed still but I realize that you are looking for feedback first.

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2013, 08:25:10 AM »
  So this should work -(8,0,1928,960) -- except I introduced a bug it doesn't.  Fix coming.

Works perfectly, thanks alot! Imho this is the way to film with the 5D3 (selecting 2048 it jumps to 1928) because otherwise you'll always have the 2 black rows on the left.

I did have a look at the BMDFilm output curve, and it is a little odd.  It is likely has BMD sensor calibration stuff in it, the curve we use for Protune and others, mathematically models the mapping of linear to log and back again, the BMD curve don't fit our models.

Oh ok didn't know that. I found a thread on bmcuser where somebody found a simulation using the Cineon 95 curve. I did some further testing and pushing with some frames of mine and found a pretty matching preset. BMDfilm compresses/lifts the shadows a little bit more but otherwise it fit's good imho. (Here's the link with the BMCC comparsion: http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?2306-Cineform-Raw-BMD-Film-Curve&p=65225&viewfull=1#post65225)

Attached a screenshot of GoProCineformStudio with Protune curve, one with my simulated bmdfilm and one with the bmd to rec.709 lut applied. Yes I'm digging more into the shadows on the bmdfilm like grade and yes whitebalance probably has to get adjusted it was just a quick apply with no correction and my settings were originally for the bmcc.




AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2013, 08:29:00 AM »
BTW I just opened the image for comparsion in Photoshop. As nice as Cineform is, the Adobe Denoiser does a great job on the bookshelf when lifting the shadows ...

Samuel H

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2013, 10:35:38 AM »
This is a great option for fast-turnaround projects: if it runs at over 100 frames per second, it's basically just like converting the .raw file to a stream of .dng files! But smaller and with proper playback!

So, with something like Advanced Detail 1 debayering, how does detail look compared to the original H.264 video? CineForm RAW is clearly softer than an uncompressed DNG opened in ACR/AE (not because of the compression, but because of the awesome debayering that ACR uses, which CFR seemingly can't match). It should be somewhere between that soft ugly thing we used to love but don't want anymore, and the sparp, clean beauty of ACR
http://www.similaar.com/foto/blackmagic-workflow/index.html
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 10:38:44 AM by Samuel H »

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2013, 11:00:10 AM »
Take a look at my comparsion pics Samuel. It may not be as sharp as ACR but no way it's as mushy as the H264 :)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111134722005606605004/111134722005606605004/posts/TE4uJBWZU5m

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2013, 06:51:54 PM »
As the de-mosaic is not baked, I happy to hear suggestions on for alternative algorithms to add, making the CineForm RAW results even better. Currently you can use CineForm RAW (as .MOV) directly in Resolve, so you aren't limit to our de-mosaics today. 

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2013, 06:58:47 PM »
Is Resolve doing the demosaic not cineform? So no matter what I select in GoPro Studio Resolve handels it? Or does this behaviour change since I use your patched dll?

Samuel H

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2013, 09:06:37 PM »
As the de-mosaic is not baked, I happy to hear suggestions on for alternative algorithms to add, making the CineForm RAW results even better. Currently you can use CineForm RAW (as .MOV) directly in Resolve, so you aren't limit to our de-mosaics today.
I'm afraid I don't have any particular method to suggest. The ones I've coded myself were relatively basic ones that would not improve over what Resolve already has. Now, if somebody finds out what ACR is doing...

Samuel H

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2013, 09:08:47 PM »
Take a look at my comparsion pics Samuel. It may not be as sharp as ACR but no way it's as mushy as the H264 :)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111134722005606605004/111134722005606605004/posts/TE4uJBWZU5m

edit: I'm dumb and what I wrote here was wrong
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 12:55:46 AM by Samuel H »

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2013, 09:44:26 PM »
Is Resolve doing the demosaic not cineform? So no matter what I select in GoPro Studio Resolve handels it? Or does this behaviour change since I use your patched dll?

The patch you are running also switches the de-mosaic.  As the demosaic happens before color corrections, it is not possible for Resolve to do the de-mosaic and CineForm to the first color pass.   For the out of the box experience, Resolve does both the demosaic and color from CineForm RAW files.  The best solution for all would be to add a current generation de-mosaic filter to the CineForm decoder. CF Advance Detail 1, was award winning only 4 years ago, so we have some work to do.

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2013, 10:20:40 PM »
ehm Samuel wait, I did not run cineform on that test. I did CR2 (still image), RAW (via ACR) and H264. To be honest I don't remember the sharpening settings but I think it was just the default 25 with radius 1.0 - For the CR2 I used resize sharper in photoshop to resize to HD resolution.

Isn't CF advance detail 2 the best option for good sharpnes with no excessive artifacts David?

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2013, 10:21:54 PM »
Ahh I forgot. Ok let's assume I run the version with no patch, how can I set whitebalance and basis settings in Resolve to get rid of that green cast?

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2013, 10:47:18 PM »
Ahh I forgot. Ok let's assume I run the version with no patch, how can I set whitebalance and basis settings in Resolve to get rid of that green cast?

I don't know Resolve at all.  The white balance values in Studio are linear gains that should be applied as linear channel gains in Resolve (same values should work.)  The color matrix then calibrates the sensor to Rec709/sRGB), but I'm not sure that Resolve supports a manually entered color matrix.

sergiocamara93

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2013, 11:03:43 PM »
@DANewman Really great utility!!! Thanks a lot! I've tried the "raw2gpcf -444- -c -q5" with and without the cineform curve (MOV files for Resolve). The most information I get is with the -c command (without it the highlights are completely blown out). It's fast and seems quite reliable but color noise is worse than in ACR (debayer process I guess?) and the "highlights recovery" of the curve creates some posterization.

Nevertheless, thanks again and I (we) would love to have a GUI and, specially, a batch tool.

EDIT: Could you explain the log curve options? I mean the -lX command. I've no idea what value to use or what the effects are but I would like to try the Protune curve with this tool.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 11:20:57 PM by sergiocamara93 »
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