Author Topic: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video  (Read 203455 times)

Jake Segraves

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I've been playing around with Luke Neumann's sample DNG files and as it turns out GoPro Cineform Studio Premium and Professional already support the conversion of these into CineForm RAW.

Use the same CinemaDNG workflow that we posted for the Blackmagic Cinema Camera here:

http://support.cineform.com/entries/22175187-Blackmagic-Cinema-Camera-CinemaDNG-to-CineForm-RAW-Workflow-Windows-

In the conversion settings, use 'Protune' or the 'optimize for 12 or 13 stops' option for the encode curve and then use 'Protune' for the decode curve.

After conversion use the following settings (provided by GoPro Senior Director of Software Engineering, David Newman) for the WORKSPACE and WHITE BALANCE panels:



Finally, apply the 'ProtuneLook' in the LOOK (CUBE/3D LUT) panel.

This will give you a decent starting point with a file ready to take into an NLE or other application (without exporting i should add... just take this same file into your other apps and all the settings applied here will go along with it).

This is currently only available in the Windows version of GoPro CineForm Studio Premium or Professional, which you can download from here:

www.cineform.com/downloads/

Cheers!

Jake Segraves
Technical Support Manager
GoPro...Be a HERO.

AriLG

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2013, 12:10:54 AM »
Great seeing you here, Jake !  :)
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Jake Segraves

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2013, 12:13:02 AM »
Great to be here!  ;)

AriLG

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2013, 12:19:02 AM »
This is a great video to describe what are the benefits (with BMCC, that - as Jake said - has the same workflow as raw files in 5D mkIII)

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DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2013, 10:12:38 AM »
I should be asleep, instead I'm experiment with Canon 5D ML RAW in GoPro CineForm Studio.  Here is more setup, conversion and correction using GoPro CineForm Studio Premium.

Import files (look RAW):


My advanced conversion settings:


Add Color Matrix and White balance to the CineForm RAW clip:


Add a Preview LUT (ProtuneLook):

Peter

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 10:23:36 AM »
Sounds good, what about a tool mlraw2cfraw or even import the raw file into Cineform Studio?

Kuky

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2013, 11:05:34 AM »
I didn't find any of the demosaic options to be as good as the ACR one.
Advanced Detail 3 seem to work best but it's not on the same level.

Also going through cineform raw I didn't find any  options to recover highlights on the same level as ACR/LR.

Any feedback appreciated.

platu

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2013, 11:39:55 AM »
Ok.. here are my thoughts about this workflow...

I have been playing around with CineForm Studio Premium for the last few days.  This has potential to be a much faster workflow than any other methods I have seen discussed.  One of the advantages that jumps out at me immediately is that importing a large number is DNGs into your product is very quick (almost immediate) and this allows you to play the raw sequence in your video player right away.  Other workflows take much longer to get to this point so this is a good way to be able to play through all your footage to see what you have shot, discard any bad sequences and not waste any time converting sequences you won't be using.  It's also pretty amazing how the raw workflow extends right into Premiere... when you import the converted Cineform Raw files into Premiere and still can update the files live from Cineform Studio and have those changes reflected immediately in your Premiere timeline... very nice.

However, there are a couple of things that give me pause about this workflow.  I think a large number of people will ending up liking the Adobe Camera Raw interface for getting their image into a very usable state quickly.  Besides very intuitive exposure controls, ACR includes time saving features such as decent noise reduction. This could eliminate the need for more render intensive noise reduction plugins later.  In my test footage of a fairly bright window in a dim room, ACR let me bring the highlights down and adjust overall exposure much more easily than in Cineform Studio.  Other than a white balance correction, minor tint shift, and a bit of noise reduction, it only took minutes to get my footage looking beautiful.  In contrast, using Cineform Studio, I found that I needed to play around for quite a bit longer to get the the point where the footage was acceptable, and it still didn't look as good as what I had achieved using ACR.  Highlight preservation was especially problematic.  I'm not a professional colorist by any means but that is the point... I feel this experience I described will be repeated by many like me.  Another observation...I had initially opened my DNG sequence in ACR, made my adjustments, synchronized these changes to all my files, and then imported those files into Cineform Studio.  I was expecting (or hoping rather) that my changes might have been preserved in Cineform Studio but alas they weren't.  I'm sure there is a reason for this but it would be useful to be able to do this.  Cineform Studio still to me has the advantage of non-destructive raw editing which extends to the NLE, small edit-friendly files, not to mention the ability to preview your footage very quickly in your video player before any conversion or rendering takes place. 

Just some food for thought...

Kuky

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
What I've found so far:

- highlight restore implementation is much weaker than ACR. Cineform Studio & FirstLight does not provide controls to do it. Also if you load the cineform file in AE you cannot "dig" into the highlights.
   In ACR it's amazing how much can be restored.

- Cineform doesn't implement any color noise reduction (or did not found it ?). I've found instances where there are artifacts after debayering through cineform.

- Debayering through ACR gives better details than Cineform, but here I may be wrong. Have to check more.

- there is a small bug when using regional settings in Windows (comma instead of point). 23.976 fps files will transcode insted to a monstrous 23976 fps file. I have to revert to English(US) region or reinterpret in AE.

- did not find a way to save colour matrix in Studio as a preset.

Any feedback appreciated,
Cristian

tihon

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2013, 05:16:25 PM »
hi! Do you think that it is possible to convert ML dng raw to resolve format (cinema dng)?
Cinema, cinema, cinema

Kuky

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2013, 05:19:14 PM »
Later update.

Color noise reduction is killing this workflow. Also it appears that debayer filter enhances also the color noise.

Here is a link to a dng file from canon raw movie. Also included screenshots for acr and cineform studio interfaces. Check the metalic bars, but noise is present in the entire image.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3ncQl4hSqlnWklaQTliU09Jdzg/edit?usp=sharing

Any help appreciated
Cristian

Kuky

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2013, 05:20:28 PM »
hi! Do you think that it is possible to convert ML dng raw to resolve format (cinema dng)?

If you transcode to cineform raw quicktime format it opens in Davinci.

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2013, 05:23:38 PM »
Cineform studio... I dunno. The codec is good but always broken with sony vegas. In v12, preview at full best size causes black screen on some clips.

Codec is 10 bit so I guess I'm losing color now converting? I've yet to find an intermediate that is better in terms of file size and quality so I live with the bugs. :(

tihon

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2013, 05:34:28 PM »
If you transcode to cineform raw quicktime format it opens in Davinci.

But i think camera settings in resolve (exposition, wb,tint) will be dissabled as in dng files, Or not?
Cinema, cinema, cinema

Kuky

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2013, 05:37:45 PM »


Codec is 10 bit so I guess I'm losing color now converting? I've yet to find an intermediate that is better in terms of file size and quality so I live with the bugs. :(

Nope, cineform is able to work both in RAW and RGB/YUV space. CineformRAW it's ... well... RAW. They just use a proprietary compression to reduce size, but keep it raw.
The ideea behind this is great but I find the implementation not be as good as ACR. If some of this problems are solved could be the fastest way to preview/edit/colour correct keeping the media in raw format.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2013, 05:48:21 PM »
Sounds good, what about a tool mlraw2cfraw or even import the raw file into Cineform Studio?

I haven't looked into details for want we could customize, create custom tool for transcoding would be straight forward.  I was just finding the current tool is working well with the DNG sample file someone shared (thank you).

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2013, 05:53:57 PM »
I didn't find any of the demosaic options to be as good as the ACR one.
Advanced Detail 3 seem to work best but it's not on the same level.

Also going through cineform raw I didn't find any  options to recover highlights on the same level as ACR/LR.

Any feedback appreciated.

We do have a highlight recovery control, the slider in "Workspace" is called "SAT. CLIP PT".

I totally agree the demosaic in ACR is awesome, we are on the look out for an open source equivalent to add to our demosaic options.  We like having a good range of filters as playback speed is also an import factor.  You could edit with Advanced Detail 1 or 2 (I don't like 3) then switch to some (future) compute intensive demosaic for export.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2013, 05:58:26 PM »
- there is a small bug when using regional settings in Windows (comma instead of point). 23.976 fps files will transcode insted to a monstrous 23976 fps file. I have to revert to English(US) region or reinterpret in AE.

- did not find a way to save colour matrix in Studio as a preset.

I'm not sure how to reproduce that speed bug.

We never thought there would be a need to save the color matrix in a preset, as these are the first CinemaDNGs I've seen that didn't have a color matrix included.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2013, 06:05:43 PM »
Color noise reduction is killing this workflow. Also it appears that debayer filter enhances also the color noise.

That is why I wouldn't use Advance Detail 3 filters, but some like it, and it was used on parts of Slumdog Millionaire. We didn't not yet add a denoise stage to the demosaic. 

Note: you are showing the old FirstLight tool which hasn't been updated in two years.  The development has moved to the GoPro CineForm Studio application.  They are many that still prefer the FirstLight interface, but slowly you can do more in the new tool.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2013, 06:12:53 PM »
Cineform studio... I dunno. The codec is good but always broken with sony vegas. In v12, preview at full best size causes black screen on some clips.

Codec is 10 bit so I guess I'm losing color now converting? I've yet to find an intermediate that is better in terms of file size and quality so I live with the bugs. :(

There is not been any CineForm issue with Vegas, but yes, they has been a Vegas issue will some third party codecs (not just ours.)  I surprised to hear the Vegas black frame bug still plagues anyone.

CineForm RAW hasn't been 10-bit since the SI-2K in 2007. Yet even in 2007, 10-bit log is good for 14-bit linear, it is still a dominate finishing format with 10-bit DPX files today.   CineForm RAW is currently 12-bit log, and with VC-5 (our SMTPE efforts to standard CineForm) we extend this for crazy superHDR cameras of the future.

AndreasK

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2013, 06:27:40 PM »
David, Neoscene is 10bit tough right? I could use CF Pro with 4:4:4 so debayering with adoberaw and then using cineform normal not raw would be an option?

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2013, 06:35:09 PM »
David, Neoscene is 10bit tough right? I could use CF Pro with 4:4:4 so debayering with adoberaw and then using cineform normal not raw would be an option?

NeoScene is the old 4:2:2 10-bit tool.  GoPro Studio Premium is 4:4:4 and RAW and 12-bit.

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2013, 06:39:02 PM »
Newest studio gives the option of 4:4:4/709/RGB in AE where is raw?

Black frame bug is from vegas using the CFHD decoder DLL and not VFW codecs. So some version of vegas work, some don't... I know its probably buggy for other things too, buggy in general.

DANewman

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2013, 06:46:56 PM »
Newest studio gives the option of 4:4:4/709/RGB in AE where is raw?

Black frame bug is from vegas using the CFHD decoder DLL and not VFW codecs. So some version of vegas work, some don't... I know its probably buggy for other things too, buggy in general.

AE is only 444, so we have to develop the RAW to 444 via the parameters you set in Studio.

Yes, Vegas seem to be forever a little buggy, it is a shame as we have such a very gooding work relationship with their engineering team.  While I like Adobe Premiere also, Sony Vegas natively implement our codec SDK, and this is cool.

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Re: GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 06:48:30 PM »
That native use of the codec is what got me...

I like vegas more than premiere.. seems straight forward for edits/audio/etc. But always there is some cancer.