Author Topic: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?  (Read 717 times)

D_Odell

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Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« on: October 24, 2017, 11:30:14 PM »
Hi!

Not sure where to place this thread, but Ill try here. In some weeks I will start a production with a budget around $50K. I first planed to rent an Amira with good PL optics. But I started to question the impact it had on the budget and salaries etc. Since I don't believe I can't produce a good studio production with a 5D3 and maybe Otus optics. I thought as a editor and directing with improvisation that a multi camera ML Crop_rec would be nearly as good and if not better with the editing possibilities.

But there are the problems, camera stops functioning (happened two times in one year of work), restart, batteries in and out etc. That can't be accepted in this production. They must work (will bring three 5D3 with ML and correct settings) and two will constantly run. The takes will be around 2-10 minutes so card and overheating shouldn't be such a problem. But from your experience, is it to risky?

The setup will be, two running 5D3 with each 128-256Gb CF. Backup of cards, often offloading, not waiting etc. Tripods on mostly all shots. Some dolly. Precise lightning for a multi camera shoot. Lenses will be, 2x Otus 28mm, 2x Milvus 15mm, Otus 55mm.

Tests with the lenses on the setup, resolution chart and flair tests: https://vimeo.com/240315090

What do you think?
Thanks!
5D3 (OLPF removed) :: 1.1.3 :: Canon FD L Serie

Lars Steenhoff

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 12:21:10 AM »
I think you can do a rehearsal and film with the cams to stresstest the conditions.
when you have done this test you can decide what works and whats does not for your film.
nobody else can decide this for you  :)

reddeercity

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 08:17:27 AM »
Yea I wouldn't use 5d3 if you got a 50K budget , It a Still's camera that does good Video but it's not a production Camera no matter what trick we do to the software to get raw video.
I would rent a C300 markii , C500 or even a 1DC or better yet the new C200 . Even thou the 5D3 can do 4k or very close to it you can't trust it other then short project's ,
it on the bleeding edge where anything can happen e.g. from corrupt frames to early stops , to overheating (FYI Canon "C" series has cooling fans internally)  etc. ....
I know  there are some that had great success in filming short's and some feature length projects but there playing with fire
as any thing could happen and you loose a day's worth or filming , is it worth it ? you be the judge . I would say run the 5D3's as backup's as there are not 100% reliable yet (if ever) .

I use my 5D2 in short news stories & mini Doc. (no more 30min)  and I always have some issue , yes I know you are talking about a 5d3 here and I have a 5D2 but the point is even thou I know
100% that I can record crop mode 2144x1076 24p continuously (10bit) without problem I still have at least 2 other cams recording . 1 for different angle and the other for backup on the same angle of the 5D2 , as I had early stops for no reason (maybe got hot no sure) but I was covered  from the B-cams . What ever you do have a mind set that the 5D3 could always have problems and needs to be monitored by a experienced user at all times to avoid pit falls .
My 2 cents worth  :D

katrikura

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 08:24:25 PM »
Hello:
          I tell you my experience, I have a 5d iii and a  atomos blade, when I made the recording in raw, the atoms record in parallel, even if the CF card is full, the atoms still recording without any problem. I think this would be a good way to reduce the risk, although it is not the same quality, you still have the material to edit, I occupy a color card, to match the colors. I have used this in full hd 1920 * 1080 mode.




Excuse my bad english

bpv5P

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 10:06:40 PM »
Not very stable, but if you have other backup 5D3, I personally would go for it. The money you would be wasting on a high-end camera can be used for other things (such as a anamorphic lens, neutral density filter, polarizer, etc).

D_Odell

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 11:40:57 AM »
Yea I wouldn't use 5d3 if you got a 50K budget , It a Still's camera that does good Video but it's not a production Camera no matter what trick we do to the software to get raw video.
I would rent a C300 markii , C500 or even a 1DC or better yet the new C200 . Even thou the 5D3 can do 4k or very close to it you can't trust it other then short project's ,
it on the bleeding edge where anything can happen e.g. from corrupt frames to early stops , to overheating (FYI Canon "C" series has cooling fans internally)  etc. ....
I know  there are some that had great success in filming short's and some feature length projects but there playing with fire
as any thing could happen and you loose a day's worth or filming , is it worth it ? you be the judge . I would say run the 5D3's as backup's as there are not 100% reliable yet (if ever) .
I use my 5D2 in short news stories & mini Doc. (no more 30min)  and I always have some issue , yes I know you are talking about a 5d3 here and I have a 5D2 but the point is even thou I know
100% that I can record crop mode 2144x1076 24p continuously (10bit) without problem I still have at least 2 other cams recording . 1 for different angle and the other for backup on the same angle of the 5D2 , as I had early stops for no reason (maybe got hot no sure) but I was covered  from the B-cams . What ever you do have a mind set that the 5D3 could always have problems and needs to be monitored by a experienced user at all times to avoid pit falls .
My 2 cents worth  :D


Cureently looking into renting one c300mk2 and have one or two ML for edit possibilities. But I came just from a test pit and I then ran a 5D3 and Otus primes, for power we used socket power (not sure what’s the English term for it) and al whent well. But do any of you know if powering from more reliable power sources will help canon cams work better with ML?

Will update how the decisions go..
5D3 (OLPF removed) :: 1.1.3 :: Canon FD L Serie

bpv5P

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 11:53:33 AM »
I'm not @reddeercity, but more reliable power sources will take no effect on ML stability. The CompactFlash card will, though. I would suggest you to have backup CF cards (with the same ML files on them), so if one of them get error or goes full, you can just put another and you're good to go.
Since it's not very stable, redundancy is necessary.

Kharak

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 12:08:37 PM »
The stability of ML comes down to the experience of the operator. I personally have never had a breakdown om a shoot. Yes, i experienced a crash here and there when hitting record. But besides a card getting full, I have never experienced a random breakdown mid shot. But ofcourse are you shooting 3:2 on Vanilla MLV you are pushing the write limit and probably will get a random stop as the card starts filling up. 16:9 vanilla is rock solid. I havent done 20 min takes. So that might be why i dont get random stops. But i see myself as "pro" familiar with how ML behaves and it takes a few seconds to get a camera up and running again.

Hell, shooting with Oddysey on sony cameras is a lot more unstable than ML in my experience.

Just get lots and lots of minimum 128 gb cards. Stress test them all too see if any are counterfeit.

Good luck.
once you go raw you never go back

nikki

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 06:01:18 AM »
What’s the project for7

D_Odell

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 08:02:08 PM »
What’s the project for7
Organ donation institution wants several short movies about different psychological technology’s when talking to victims. Inspirational videos sort of speak.

Have done a test with 5D3 and Otus primes and will post sone.

Edit: here’s the test: https://vimeo.com/240315090
5D3 (OLPF removed) :: 1.1.3 :: Canon FD L Serie

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Multicamera shot, the risks for the production?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 08:13:50 AM »
Have shot 20+ minutes straight in 30p on a single take in Lossless 12-bit during weddings and haven't seen  any issues on these 5D3's. I use few 256 GB 1066x & several 128 GB 1066x CF cards from KomputerBay. Can't go wrong with using Otus primes and ML RAW together. You're better off spending $ elsewhere towards production cost.
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