Author Topic: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView  (Read 161767 times)

Kharak

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1125 on: September 07, 2017, 11:53:32 PM »
Sorry for late reply. I am immensely busy these days. I will get back to you on the 113 and september build aswell. Asap!
once you go raw you never go back

tit_toinou

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1126 on: September 09, 2017, 04:24:41 AM »
Hi there,

I tested this on April and 4K half fps + gray preview worked fine for me. Now the the September builds when I enabled Crop Mode it doesnt change anything in the resolution (still 1080 :( ) + no preview at all. Is there some options I don't know about I should enable ?

Thanks !!

a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1127 on: September 09, 2017, 10:13:17 AM »
Generic troubleshooting steps:
- check for warnings in the menu (grayed out items - these will print the reason why they are disabled)
- check the Modified settings tab

hjfilmspeed

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1128 on: September 10, 2017, 05:06:14 PM »
Loving the quick start times of MLV Lite on newest build!!!!
I'm thinking I should I update the video on the main page to explain the "BUSY" bug from half touch or DOF button? I can explain the Q menu work around or the trash button work around. Or I can wait. I just don't want my video to cause confusion. 

Danne

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1129 on: September 10, 2017, 05:39:33 PM »
Quote
to explain the "BUSY" bug from half touch or DOF button?
How do you mean. This is actually fixed by some deep workaround from a1ex in latest build.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1130 on: September 11, 2017, 12:55:30 AM »
How do you mean. This is actually fixed by some deep workaround from a1ex in latest build.
In September 6 2017 build?
Hmmm I downloaded yesterday and on 1.1.3 it does the busy thing unless you hit the Q button twice or hit the trash button twice. I probably missed something but I am on latest build 1.1.3 5d3 sep 6 2017 crop rec 4k build

goldenchild9to5

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1131 on: September 11, 2017, 01:51:37 AM »
Shot some 3.5K 12bit Lossless stuff today using September 6th build & running on 1.1.3.  So far everything is running smoothly  8) 

D_Odell

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1132 on: September 11, 2017, 08:22:18 PM »
Shot some 3.5K 12bit Lossless stuff today using September 6th build & running on 1.1.3.  So far everything is running smoothly  8)
Still wonder how you folks manage to record 12-bit lossless? My cam says its only for photo mode.. Running 1.1.3. Thanks!
Please ignore this post, for first time it now is choosable! Great work! It's has been a problem when choosing in mlv lite menu.
5D3 (OLPF removed) :: 1.1.3 :: Canon FD L Serie

clemento

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1133 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:33 PM »
Hi Magic Lantern users,

I'm using a 2 year old ml build.
Everything works perfect, but with the old build I have, it's a little bit annoying that you can't see the right framing when shooting in crop mode - you always see the 5x magnification, but the camera records in 3x magnification...

That's why I'm interested in ths crop_rec experiment build.
I want to shoot in 1080p 25fps 14bit in 3x magnification and see the correct frame (not 5x magnification).
Is this the right build for me?
How do I install over the old magic lantern build?
Do I just need to download the magiclantern-crop_rec_4k.2017Sep06.5D3123.zip and replace it with my old build on the sd card? Then install in the camera?
Sorry for asking, but I'd rather ask before I make something wrong and worst case break my camera :)
hope you can understand!
Thanks so much for your help

Lars Steenhoff

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1134 on: September 13, 2017, 11:36:30 PM »
First you make a back up of the current build you use in case you like it better.

Then you just overwrite the files on the card with the new one.

All set

clemento

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1135 on: September 14, 2017, 02:42:23 PM »
ok, it works great so far :)
the only thing is that I'm not able to get higher resolution than 1920x1080, see here:

the



I have enabled only the crop_rec module and the mlv_lite module.

Any clue why I can't enable a higher res than 1080p?

Thanks so much!

Lars Steenhoff

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1136 on: September 14, 2017, 02:44:51 PM »
Yes you need to first enable the crop mode, and after press the zoom button on the camera to go to 5x zoom.
Then you go back to the menu and choose the resolution.

mannfilm

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1137 on: September 14, 2017, 11:41:27 PM »
Mac OS. How do you turn the MLV into DNG's? The referenced "mlv.dump.osx" download does not open on my Mac with  a "there is no app. set to open the document..." I tried MLRawviewer 1.4.3 but it crashes.

Licaon_Kter

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1138 on: September 14, 2017, 11:46:29 PM »
Mac OS. How do you turn the MLV into DNG's? The referenced "mlv.dump.osx" download does not open on my Mac with  a "there is no app. set to open the document..." I tried MLRawviewer 1.4.3 but it crashes.
MSVFS? http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13152.0


Rcorrell1

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1140 on: September 15, 2017, 01:58:06 AM »
hey guys, I know this has been discussed, but I've been through all 46 pages of this thread and tired to figure this out on my own without bothering anyone. I also tried to reach out on IRC about it with no luck. I'm having trouble with the april 4th null pointer bug with the new build. I get the error message every time I install a newer 4k build after the april 4th (which I know is now known to have these bugs). I need someone to walk me through the process to remove the error. I've dumped my rom, I've formatted cards, I've cleared canon settings, I've done the battery pull... I still get the error message without fail.  If I install the normal nightly build it works fine, just not the 4k. I've read through the forum several times but it is still unclear to me how to resolve it. I've tried contacting you on IRC like it says to do but have not got a response from anyone on the ML side.  I'd love to start testing this new build but my camera won't allow me to do so...  If anyone knows what process I have to go through in order to get it up and running again I would be very grateful.  Thank you in advance, and sorry, I know plenty of you will think my issue is redundant.  Running a 5D3 1.2.3. with latest 4k build.

miket

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1141 on: September 17, 2017, 02:44:31 AM »
1 frame half press trouble

Thank you ML devs and testers for the awesome features in the crop_rec exp builds!  I have been testing the many recent versions on a telecine machine I have been building and will exhibit next weekend at the NYC Maker Faire.  The project uses the crop_rec with half press / 1 frame only externally triggered by a movie projector synced with a reed switch to capture each frame of the film into an mlv file.

First, to get the 1 frame per half press working was confusing to me since the menu suggested that pre-recording had to be active.  When I tested with pre-recording active I was capturing many frames per half press.  By turning off pre-recording I was capturing only 1 frame per half press.  I thought it was all good. 

With more testing it seems that the frame that is being recorded has inconsistent timing, sometimes right on time and sometimes later than the half press, but before the next half press, which shows a vertical blur because the projector is advancing the film.  I have linked some test captures from a 16mm film shot at the Watkins Glen F1 race NY in 1969 and a couple of projector project photos. 

The projector is advanced by a stepper motor and programmed to turn a specific numbers of frames at a fairly precise speed.  By changing the stepper controller settings I see the same issue running it at 10FPS (200 frame files), 5FPS (100 frame file), and 2.5FPS (50 frame files) so running slower shows the same results. I have rechecked the reed sw trigger with an LED and it blinks correctly 1 time per each turn.  I have also tried many different crop resolutions, bit depths, fps override with very fps as low as 1 second, and with and without compression, the issue seems to be about the same.  That said the total number of captures frames is correct to the number of frames the steeper runs before stopping (sometimes the 10FPS captures are 1 or 2 frames short).

Is there a way to update pre-recording to add a buffer setting that only saves the newest single frame rather than a group of frames by seconds?  I have been trying to keep up with this thread since April so if I have missed something please let me know.

Thanks for your help!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxP1ckq84DqobzlqMFN6b3JhcjA






a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1142 on: September 17, 2017, 07:51:32 AM »
I've tried contacting you on IRC like it says to do but have not got a response from anyone on the ML side.
I see, sorry I wasn't online at 1 A.M...
Quote
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/12
Disappearing: If you ask a question, wait for an answer. Don't just ask a question and go a few minutes later. Some people are connected all day, but that doesn't mean they're in front of their screen or that they're looking at the channel right now. Leave the IRC open in the background and do something else in the meantime. The more you wait the more likely you'll get an answer.

First, to get the 1 frame per half press working was confusing to me since the menu suggested that pre-recording had to be active.

Yeah, not sure how to re-word it. Internally, the 1-frame trigger is implemented as pre-recording with only one frame.

Quote
With more testing it seems that the frame that is being recorded has inconsistent timing, sometimes right on time and sometimes later than the half press, but before the next half press [...] I see the same issue running it at 10FPS (200 frame files), 5FPS (100 frame file), and 2.5FPS (50 frame files)

I didn't do any timing tests, but this suggests the half-shutter event may be detected too late in the camera (in particular, at low FPS, where other settings are also updating slower than usual). Can I assume the issue is not present at high frame rates?

The half-shutter event is detected right away, but it's processed at next frame (where the pre-recorded frame from memory is queued for saving). Is the delay larger than one frame? (will look at the files tonight)

Quote
Is there a way to update pre-recording to add a buffer setting that only saves the newest single frame rather than a group of frames by seconds?

Unless I'm missing something, the 1-frame trigger already works that way.

miket

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1143 on: September 17, 2017, 01:15:12 PM »
A1ex, thanks for taking a look.  I neglected to mention that I'm using a 5d3 with 1.1.3.

Quote
Can I assume the issue is not present at high frame rates?

I have not tried to capture faster than 10 frames per second, I'll give it a go and see what happens.  The projector would normally run somewhere between 15 to 24 fps when projecting a film.  Slower FPS captures may be useful to others who try this project with SD card cameras though.

a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1144 on: September 17, 2017, 07:36:20 PM »
BTW, what's the reason for setting FPS override to a low value? Do you need long exposures?

If the camera frame rate is a few times higher than the projector frame rate, I don't expect any sync issues (there will be some jitter from the mismatched clocks, but as long as the projector is not advancing, it should be fine). Otherwise, if the two frame rates are close, but not identical, I expect trouble because the clocks will drift; the half-shutter trigger is not genlock (it does not affect LiveView frame timing - it simply saves whatever it finds in buffer).

A closer look at the footage shows the motion blur is, in many cases, at the top of the frame or on the entire frame, but never just at the bottom. The frame is captured from top to bottom, with rolling shutter - that suggests the defective frames were captured too early. The issue is clock drift, from what I can tell - try a higher frame rate setting for LiveView. The output frame rate will be driven by your external clock (so the data rate won't change), but the jitter will be a lot lower when LiveView is sampled at some high frame rate.

As a starting point, try running the projector at 1 FPS, LiveView at 30 FPS and give the sync signal in the middle of the interval where the film is not advancing. Once that is working fine, increase the speed and see how far you can push it, fine-tuning the settings and the timings. If you need more speed, try 1080p45 or 1920x800 60p.

For high speed scanning (with both projector and LiveView running at similar frame rates, doesn't matter if 1, 5, 10, 20, 30, 60 fps or whatever), you need genlock. Or mechanical shutter while the film is advancing.

miket

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1145 on: September 17, 2017, 10:00:51 PM »
A1ex, thanks for taking the time to review my files and for these suggestions.  I was using the FPS override to get longer exposures.  That's with ISO 100 and f16 on the EL Nikkor so I have plenty of light to test with a shorter exposure at higher ISO. 

I took a guess on the positioning of the reed switch and cut slots to give adjustment through about 90 degrees of shaft rotation starting after the film stopped moving.  Another thing I can try is to move the reed sw 180 degrees so that it triggers just before the film advance.  The film advance completes in less than 90 degrees of shaft rotation leaving about 3/4 of a turn with the film stationary. 

The original mechanical shutter has been removed for a couple of reasons, first to make room to rework the lamp as the original was 1000 watts.  The second reason is the mechanical shutter rotates faster than the frame advance to reduce flicker and exposes each frame 3 times and that would leave less time for exposure with this project.

If you are interested there is a great video by the Engineer Guy - How a Film Projector Works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU


Kharak

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1146 on: September 18, 2017, 01:45:37 AM »
@miket

I am wondering why you are stopping down your lens so much. I assume you are shooting directly at a 90 Degree angle on to the surface of the Film? Do you need the deep focus ?

I am not familiar with Nikkor lenses, though apparently  they are amazing. But stopping down to f16, are you not degrading the quality? I think they call it introducing "Diffraction". Something related to the physics of lens elements and the Aperture being to Tiny at f16. From my experience, most lenses reach their peak sharpness between f8 - f11. (unless if its fastest is f8)

Just suggesting and wondering at the same time, I find your project very interesting.

And remember reading another post here from some years ago. Some guy was doing exactly what you are doing. You should try and search for it on the forum, cause it sounds like you both have the same issues with the Sync drifting of, but I can not recall if he managed to resolve his problem or not.

Good luck!
once you go raw you never go back

miket

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1147 on: September 18, 2017, 02:28:19 AM »
As a starting point, try running the projector at 1 FPS

A1ex, I tested today with your recommended settings and retiming the reed switch, the 1.25fps and 2.5fps worked with no blurred frames which is great.  At 5fps  the blur returned.  I'm going to rework the trigger magnet, maybe it's holding the half press too long.  Based on the record LED the frame gets captured on half press (not release) but the delay on the release may be holding up other functions.  I'll report back after this change.

@miket

I am wondering why you are stopping down your lens so much. ...But stopping down to f16, are you not degrading the quality? I think they call it introducing "Diffraction".

Hello Kharak,
Thanks for your suggestion.  That's my understanding too about the diffraction at higher f stops.  I'm stopping down and prioritizing the increase to a depth of field since this is macro and the focal depth is only a few of MM.  It looks so far like the 5d3 with the 6 element 50mm EL Nikkor is out resolving the detail in the 16mm film.

I plan on posting details about the build here on the forum in the Tutorials and Creative Uses section once it all works for others who may want to build a system.  There are a lot of similar projects on the web that I have learned from.  The goal of the project is to minimise the hardware modifications needed so more makers will attempt build systems to digitize historical films with very high quality.


denishogan

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1148 on: September 18, 2017, 12:00:23 PM »
Hi Alex

I think this may be a bug. I am using crop rec 4k - Full-resolution LiveView: 5796x3870 at 5fps with some success howeever have encountered an issue which I was able to reproduce twice.

For a video session where I take several short MLVs, the 1st MLV is always coming out at 1920 x 1290  and subsequent MLVs are all 5784x3864, I did 2 tests as shown below ie , my folders WorkArea 26e and WorkArea 27 ( 2 seperate sessions) - see images below. THE ML settings are not changed

TEST 1 - WorkArea 26








TEST 2 - WorkArea 27








SAMPLE extract of  the MLV FILE that is from the 1st folder ie 1920x1290
I used the mlv_dump -f 5 -o to reduce the file size

https://www.dropbox.com/s/107iuqok07zzspy/test.MLV?dl=0


SAMPLE extract of  the MLV FILE that is from the subsequent folder  ie 5784x3864
I used the mlv_dump -f 5 -o to reduce the file size

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrt4bx4ywtkfe5e/working137.MLV?dl=0

cheers
Denis

a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #1149 on: September 18, 2017, 03:31:29 PM »
For a video session where I take several short MLVs, the 1st MLV is always coming out at 1920 x 1290  and subsequent MLVs are all 5784x3864

Take a look at the crop_rec indicator on the bottom left, on the info bar. If there's a warning sign right after enabling crop_rec, you may have to give it a few seconds to refresh the display. The video mode parameters can only be changed before entering LiveView; ML does that (exits and re-enters LiveView) shortly after you close ML menu. If you start recording right away, it will not be able to refresh the display and will record with the current settings (most likely 1080p).