Author Topic: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced  (Read 93716 times)

KelvinK

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2016, 11:06:12 AM »
reddeercity

Unfortunately you're wrong.

1. 1DC has C-Log, grading wise (if you ever tried) it's no where close to Technicolor CineSyle. It's looks similar on paper only.
2. 1DC has 1.3x crop

Saying, "this is good, because they have Cine line", is wrong too. It could be true only if there were no rivals on the market. Sony, Panasonic has Cine lines too, but still managing to give much more features for their customers in their hybrid cameras. Canon didn't include even simple zebras and made our 24mm become 42mm when shooting 4k. Probably to force us buy new 16-35.
6D - 5D - NEX

mikekx102

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2016, 11:30:27 AM »
No CFast sucks, but what really grinds my gears is UHS-I. Since you could use a UHS-I or II card in a UHS-II slot, the only reason I can see for this is that Canon DESPERATELY don't want ML hacks allowing for great video. I was really hoping for media options that could allow for 4k Raw video. It also means that the image buffer is (pathetically) small.

USB3, on the other hand, allows for theoretical transfer speeds of up to 640MB/s, and since RAW video fills a card so quickly anyway, perhaps ML could allow for tethered video shooting where the video is saved straight onto a laptop via USB3. Is there a reason this couldn't work?

ph2007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2016, 12:50:50 PM »
so sad for the 5d4 :(
most future just leaning back to still photo cameras (oh wait... DPraw is good? but you have to use DPP.... maybe wait untill adobe support it in lightroom?)
if ML wont be running on 5d4, I am done with canon going to full sony for sure.

canon just wanted the filmakers to buy their overpriced C line up
/cry for us low budget productions

ph2007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2016, 12:55:29 PM »
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor

for super35 camera has huge advantage over the 5D4, coz you can use speedbooster to get 1 stop light and yuou will get back a closer full frame 35mm fov at the end.
for 5D4 you are doommed.

KelvinK

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2016, 01:17:49 PM »
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor

This is wrong statement. To get real crop you should select correct Reference Frame. Red Full Frame native 5k has 1x crop, 4k - 1.25x etc.
6D - 5D - NEX

thrower

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2016, 02:41:34 PM »
Sorry guys, probably that's very dumb question but:

How the heck mkVI is storing listed in specs 500 Mbps 4k Mjpeg video onto CF card?

Am I messing up writing speed and bitrate?
-----------
Al in all that's really sad day. Sonys and m4\3s are great cameras but i think we all have been dreaming about affordable Full-frame RAW 4k from Canon, with all low-light and DPOF possibilities, especially with Dual-pixel AF, which is HUGE for gimbals and drones.

Of course there haven't been any warranties that ML team have will and\or possibility to hack mkVI successfully, but anyway that would be HUGE accelerator on the market - forcing every other manufacture to speed up and drop prices on existing stuff. In the end, we all just win from that. Even if canon would feature one cfast slot - that would cause a massive demand on cfast, IMO substantial for making them bit cheaper.
Now, since Canon has said their word, i think it's much less pressure on Sony (since they already dominate "dslr"-video with much older models and Nikon (since their d810 de-facto is one of the best landscape\studio cameras and it's 2 years old)

I would love if mkVI sales would break down, but that's not true - there are army of fanboys and simply professional photographers who have been stuck at not really contemporary mkIII so again canon would be off the hook for their crippling policy.

Actually, AS FOR TODAY, taking in account 5d MKVI - is good and balanced stills camera from one of the most reliable manufacturer. much overpriced though.

But just IMAGINE those UHS-i cards in 2019 or 2020 on a canon PRO full-frame camera.... cant believe they did it...

But as for me - there's nothing i cannot do with my mk III and 6d in terms of photography, what mkVI can offer, I'll wait, or pull trigger on BM.

SiSS

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2016, 05:20:40 PM »
Maybe you guys shouldn't worry about crop factor, before you get the concept right.

Crop Factor compared to 5D FullFrame.
(Source is Abelcine FOV comparator - in the ballpark, not updated lately)

Crop Factor = 1.2x
- Canon 1DC at 4K (as known as APS-H)

Crop Factor = 1.3x
- RED Dragon 6K HD

Crop Factor = 1.4x
- Super35 Film
- RED Epic 5K HD

Crop Factor = 1.5x
- Arri Alexa (2.8k I think)
- Canon 7D (as know as APS-C)
- Canon C100
- Canon C300
- Canon C500
- Panavision Genesis
- Sony F65
- Sony FS700

Crop Factor = 1.6x
- Sony F55/F5

Crop Factor = 1.7x
- RED Epic 4K HD
- BlackMagic Production Camera 4K

Crop Factor = 2.0-2.9x
- BlackMagic Cinema Camera 2.3x
- Black Magic Pocket Camera 2.9x

Crop Factor = 3x
- Super16 Film
- Sony F5/F55 2K Center Crop
 
Micro Four Thirds = about 2.0x
Canon XC10 = 2.7x
Broadcasting cameras 2/3-inch chip = around 3.8x
iPhone 6 = 7.2x


jackmoro

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2016, 09:40:07 PM »
@erek, Red will always have much better native image then native Canon DSLR, but you can't compare it price wise. One you linked is just body-brick, you will need spend much more for accessories to start film with it.

jackmoro

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2016, 10:32:49 PM »
old but fits well :)

ph2007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2016, 12:12:46 AM »
^
Damn I laugh so hard on this one....

Clean76

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2016, 04:17:41 AM »
Well im excited about the new one. Wont be out for awhile and already seeing deals thatll let me upgrade to a 5DM2 or even M3 from my old T4i. Excited to enter the world of continuous HD RAW

Ilia3101

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2016, 06:18:55 PM »
Canon has taken inspiration from Magic Lantern:
(Skip to 13:50)
5D2

ph2007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2016, 06:36:19 AM »
Canon has taken inspiration from Magic Lantern:
(Skip to 13:50)
Yea I also noticed, the way they did the HDR video just exactly same as ML did it.
wonder they just copy paste ML code into thier firmware lol.

erek

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2016, 03:54:56 PM »
I came to the realization that the general Internet Infrastructure isn't really up to par for 4K streaming, and barely 1080p even.  Most smart phones / cellular networks aren't going to be doing 4K.  My only interest in Full Frame 4K 14-bit Uncompressed RAW video is the advantage of possible image quality after down sampling to 1080p.   I don't see many real viable delivery methods to the mass public where even 1080p streaming over a smart phone with our current internet infrastructure is unrealistic unless on Wi-Fi.

Danne

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2016, 04:09:30 PM »
HDR mode reminds of averaging/tonemapping the way it can be done with ffmpeg tblend filter in post. Probably won,t be possible to set iso intervals.

erek

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2016, 06:42:21 PM »

erek

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2016, 11:06:27 PM »
5D Mark IV Rolling Shutter Performance isn't too good either:


KelvinK

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2016, 10:33:15 AM »
I came to the realization that the general Internet Infrastructure isn't really up to par for 4K streaming, and barely 1080p even.  Most smart phones / cellular networks aren't going to be doing 4K.  My only interest in Full Frame 4K 14-bit Uncompressed RAW video is the advantage of possible image quality after down sampling to 1080p.   I don't see many real viable delivery methods to the mass public where even 1080p streaming over a smart phone with our current internet infrastructure is unrealistic unless on Wi-Fi.

You don't need to post video in 4k, just downscale if needed. But 4k in post gives you crop freedom, less stress in field when framing etc.
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erek

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2016, 06:10:36 AM »
Wish the 5D Mark IV had a Global Shudder a la their brand new CMOS Sensor :

http://petapixel.com/2016/08/31/canon-unveils-cmos-sensor-global-shutter/

reddeercity

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2016, 08:31:04 AM »

If could find a old red camera like the video for cheap , I would be all over it ! The number 1 reason is basically the workflow
you can work with the raw native in FCPX , that's the workflow I always hope for in ML Raw video.

ph2007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2016, 09:56:15 AM »
The number 1 reason is basically the workflow
you can work with the raw native in FCPX , that's the workflow I always hope for in ML Raw video.
I wonder how hard if you reverse engine to r3d format and implant into mlv?
Is it posible? :o

Levas

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2016, 10:14:55 AM »
r3d format is probably patented or something like that, because it's also a compressed raw format.
So copying it, would be some sort of illegal I guess ;D

ph2007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2016, 10:39:41 AM »
r3d format is probably patented or something like that, because it's also a compressed raw format.
So copying it, would be some sort of illegal I guess ;D
doh, I hope my programing skill is good enuff to do it myself and made a custom r3d for myself lol.

a1ex

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Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2016, 02:38:40 PM »
FYI, Laurent Clévy, the guy behind http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/, already found out how to extract dual pixel data from a 5D4 CR2:

https://twitter.com/lorenzo2472/status/771085695255474176