Author Topic: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?  (Read 7257 times)

jonbobshinigin

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Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« on: February 05, 2016, 02:49:34 AM »
I began on this workflow over a year ago and have not changed since. I Love the control I get with Lightroom and while it is a ton of work, I am very happy with it.

MLV Dump > DNG Folder > Lightroom > Grade > Sync Metadata > After Effects back into video > Premiere for Audio Syncing

Is this totally insane?
I do this on a 2010 Macbook pro and it takes overnight to render sets sometimes. Here is a sample of what I am doing mostly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rTJZf64zF4

The entire thing is shot in RAW but I usually do the intro scene in a more cinematic style!

cmccullum

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 05:46:49 AM »
 Is there a reason why you don't just take the DNG sequence straight into aftereffects?

mothaibaphoto

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 07:43:02 AM »
If you convert your sequence from DNG to something else with Lightroom, you just risk to introduce some flickering.
If you just use it to apply settings for first image - you just do the same job you can do while importing DNG to AE.
For AE doesn't matter, did you sync your sequence images, it always take settings from the first one and result differs than if you sync and export from Lightroom.
If you have AE, Lightroom just redundant.

jonbobshinigin

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 01:59:02 PM »
I do not export or convert them DNGs to anything and have not seen flickering or color change. After Effects is only used to put the DNG sequence (with LR settings saved as metadata) back into a video format. Lightroom is comfortable to me whereas I use After Effects for nothing else except what I have described. Of course I am looking to save a step or two with my workflow but I absolutely Love all the options via LR.

mothaibaphoto

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 02:16:44 PM »
After Effects is only used to put the DNG sequence (with LR settings saved as metadata)
So you do a lot of redundant work - import to Lightroom, sync settings. Just for nothing.
You can be more productive with this AE import script.

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 08:25:44 PM »
SmartImport2 works flawlessly w AE and yet allows for export as PR4444XQ to get the most out of RAW MLV.
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extremelypoorfilmaker

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2016, 12:42:03 AM »
jonbobshinigin!

you are not alone! :D I do the same workflow. It is super long, but so far I haven't come across a better software for grading dngs! (and YES, I DO have davinci resolve) I never feel like I have total control over colors like with lightroom while I have been using Davinci or any other video editing software.

The only thing that gets close but not as good as lightroom is the Lumetri panel of the latest version of premiere pro CC 2015. Usually, what I do is, I generate mov files from mlvrawviewer, I edit with that, and once the editing is locked, I colour the clips i have used in Lightroom, export them in h264 through after effects and then replace them. :)

@mothaibaphoto

with AE you can apply settings ONLY on the FIRST frame. sometimes settings for the first frame might not look good further on. (It happened to me)

mothaibaphoto

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 07:14:43 AM »
with AE you can apply settings ONLY on the FIRST frame.
This is exactly what i told. Even if you apply different settings for every file in sequence, AE will disregard that. So the work on sync settings in sequence meaningless if you convert that sequence with AE.

sometimes settings for the first frame might not look good further on. (It happened to me)
This is completely different story, usually with timelapses. It's better to start with excellent deflickering and ramping script , convert without AE and finally fine-tune, sometimes even manually mixing frames to match.
And this is one of the reasons I always try Resolve first: since it's almost realtime, I can quickly estimate what approach to choose. And if I can get good results with Resolve without deflickering, I look no further.

jonbobshinigin

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2016, 12:10:26 AM »
With my process I have not seen any of this "flickering" from my 5DMK2 and the process I use. You can see the videos in the OP do not have flickering.

Also, again...the ability to color in LR is incredible. I can even reduce the noise very cleanly! I need to get together a demo reel soon and get some feedback. Thanks for all the input so far.

cmccullum

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2016, 12:29:25 AM »
@jonbobshinigin if you're happy with your workflow, by all means, keep it, but what we're trying to say is that using both Lightroom and after effects is redundant. Have you tried taking your dngs straight to resolve from Lightroom? That could eliminate AE from your workflow and save probably a considerable amount of time

Also, the flickering people talk about was the result of opening DNG sequences in Adobe camera raw (photoshop) and making adjustments in a similar fashion to what you do in Lightroom. The problem was that the exposure sliders adjusted exposure relative to each frame causing inconsistency. This didn't ALWAYS happen, but in my experience, it was a fairly constant headache.

The main point is that Lightroom and ACR have essentially, if not exactly, the same controls.

jonbobshinigin

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2016, 01:47:18 AM »
Once I grade, I simply drag the folders into AE and hit render. I am not tried the color processing via AE and at this point that is the only reason. I am working on getting a faster computer and then I am going to dive into AE head first. To summarize again:

MLV_Dump to DNG folder, Drag into LR, grade, save metadata, open AE and drag folder in, render to Proress422...It is quite fluent though there are a lot of small details along the way for keeping stuff organized.

With AE, you are suggesting one can drag the untouched folder of DNGs in and grade and render all within AE in one fell swoop?

cmccullum

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2016, 03:05:43 AM »
With AE, you are suggesting one can drag the untouched folder of DNGs in and grade and render all within AE in one fell swoop?

Yes, exactly. Opening a dng sequence in AE will launch Adobe camera raw and this will give you the same color/exposure control as Lightroom.

Apologies for not rereading your OP before my response, and falsely recollecting the use of Davinci Resolve.

Just be be super clear, my workflow is as follows:
MLVFS to convert .mlv to dng
Open dng sequence in after effects
Adjust color and exposure with ACR
export prores
Edit in premiere

Are you at all familiar with Adobe camera raw?

Edit: I have never tried importing a FOLDER of dngs into after effects. Instead, I click the first dng of the sequence import the image sequence (there's an option for "image sequence," but I believe it will be checked by default in this case. Not 100% sure on default or not, but the option is there)

jonbobshinigin

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 12:17:41 AM »
When I bring in the folders into AE, it prompts me with ACR and shows me the changes I have already made in LR. I simply click "ok"
at each clip as they import. Other than that I have not used it.

In Lightroom though I can do lens profiles, clarity...sharpening, and curves. Also, color isolation and such. I am sure there are ways to do this in other programs but each time I have dived into others for grading, I wind up wishing that the controls would be like LR. Resolve was overwhelming too...especially on my 2010 Macbook Pro!

cmccullum

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2016, 12:55:26 AM »
Take a look through the the ACR controls when you get a chance. I know for sure that lens profiles clarity sharpening and curves are all available.  I'm not sure what you mean by color isolation, but there are various controls (hue, lightness, saturation) for individual colors.

Again, I don't know much about Lightroom, but as far as I know Lightroom is essentially a better, and more complete UI for ACR (very generally speaking). So when you do your edits in Lightroom you're actually creating a sidecar .xmp file that then tells ACR in AE what settings to use.

I think the only drawback on using AE exclusively is that you can only see the first frame of your sequence while tweaking the image as opposed to Lightroom where you could select a frame from the middle to use as reference for your coloring

Take the dive with a sample shot and go straight into after effects with a dng sequence! If you don't like it, just close out and continue doing things your way!

Hope this helps!

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 08:05:01 PM »
Care to explain why SmartImport2 isn't being used in this workflow of yours ... Especially if you wanted to use the ACR controls, right?
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kidfob

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 03:09:06 AM »
I grade in Lightroom also. I'll never use Resolve or Premiere again for grading. Lightroom is just that amazing. Especially with such a thick negative like dual iso.

newsense

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2016, 02:17:13 PM »
Is there any benefit of doing sharpening or noise removal in acr or lightroom. I always did that in AE with plugins with my h.264 footage. Same with my initial grade.

laidman

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 06:32:59 AM »
This post has been dead for a couple months, but was just what I was looking for!

I've just started playing around with raw video on my 600D. I've been extracting the DNG files with raw2cdng, then opening them up in Lightroom, choosing one mid-sequence to edit, editing it as I would a regular picture, and then syncing those settings across all the remaining frames.

Then I export as originals, and stitch them back together in VirtualDub with the Cineform codec at max quality.

I've been using Lightroom for years so I feel very comfortable with it. I also have Photoshop but rarely use it. I don't have any other Adobe programs and use PowerDirector 14 to edit video so this seemed like the easiest workflow to me. I admittedly haven't done much at all with it yet, but it seems to  work well and it fairly straightforward for me.

66dellwood

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Re: Grading in Lightroom - Am I alone?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2016, 09:24:18 PM »
I have been using Lightroom for years.  In the last year, I started shooting raw video with ML and have been coming up to speed with DV Resolve for CDNG editing and grading.  My grading skills are slowly getting better.  With dark footage in particular, I just cant get the IQ I like with Resolve.  I can edit those CDNG files very quickly in LR and usually get a better result.  Noise reduction in not available anymore in the free version of Resolve.