Author Topic: To EOS M users, why?  (Read 1375 times)

teatotalTED

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To EOS M users, why?
« on: December 08, 2016, 08:07:16 AM »
Trying to get a grip on why the EOS M appears so popular, even on ML forums, just can't see the benefits at all, am I missing something?

Small body so small it becomes difficult to grip, without buying a small grip.

Limited choices of M lenses means an adapter with near the depth of a pancake, then in addition a manual lens like m42, eos, whatever including perhaps additional adapter, all of a sudden it ain"t compact.

No in body IS so rely on lens IS but what choice in lens? For video rig type stabilization becomes more necessary for free camera movement in video.

Even C mount lenses are not that small.

Is it just really a photographers choice, something that I have no interest in?

Crippled currently in raw with only, mv720 and mv1080crop? Although devrlopment is daily so this could well change.

I'm manual everything, touch screens never make sense to me as a 3x loupe is always on the back for obvious reasons, autofocus never, screens not even articulated, for a releatively new camera thst's odd, prefer that to touch screeen.

Just can't see where the M fits? What's the killer feature?

Don't get me wrong, not trying to say its crap, it depends on user needs but I can see no benefits to me, so conclude its not for me.

Can anyone suggest what I'm missing or what else is difficult to get on with on the M?



dfort

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 08:58:56 AM »
Read the first post of mv1080 on EOSM, skipping the geeky quotes and starting with:

Quote
Let me try to sell this feature request by stating some of the reasons I believe why the lowly EOS-M is perhaps just as important to moving Magic Lantern forward as the 5D mark III.

They are getting harder to find but you can still get a deal on a used one on ebay or craigslist for about $100 or so. Yeah, it still sucks at raw video but part of the charm of this camera is the challenge of getting it to perform as well as the more expensive DSLR's. It can also be used in situations where you don't want to risk an expensive camera, like using it as a wildlife camera trap and is popular among kite photographers--check out this and this. In addition, it is a pretty decent travel and party camera.

Oh yeah, and with ML it is a killer time-lapse camera. I had to travel light on my last vacation and shot this on an M with the 11-22mm EF-M lens.

EOSM.202 EOSM.203 700D.115 5D3.*

teatotalTED

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 10:51:06 AM »
dfort thanks for the reply, I did search the forum before posting and read the eos m specific threads first, including the one in your link above and I'm still perplexed.

I understand for developers, it's good, I think dmilligan said the same, however comparing to a 100D I really see no benefits in the eos m so far, part of the reason for inquiring is that a work colleague has offered me an M for £120, I already have a 550D and 50D, I can see it's possibly useful for portability but not when trying to address its shortcomings like battery life, I currently use an external power unit I made using high capacity Sony and Canon batteries for 50D and 550D so just a dummy battery for an eos M to make use of it but kinda defeats the purpose.

I hate talking of things like dynamic range and pixel count etc because it comes well down the list of importance for me, but is the EOS M better in low light? Pixel bins instead of line skips? Does it overheat? I have that under control so far for the 50D.

The only benefit I can see so far is faster card speed than 550D.

dfort

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 08:50:27 PM »
Hope I'm not over selling the EOSM. It definitely isn't for everybody.

It line skips -- only the 5D3 does binning.

It probably isn't any better in low light than your other cameras.

It gets hot, but I haven't had it overheat on me.

Battery life is short and an external battery makes it unwieldily but at a time-lapse workshop I took a while back my M with an external battery kept going while the rest of the group packed out with dead batteries.

For £120 your friend should include an EF-M lens with it. Both the 22mm and 18-22mm kit lenses are pretty good.

You can keep it simple or go nuts rigging it. (Not my rig--I'm not that crazy.)

EOSM.202 EOSM.203 700D.115 5D3.*

Teamsleepkid

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 08:25:54 AM »
I like it because it's the only canon that's mirrorless. I have a bunch of c mount lenses cause I'm poor. @dfort what external battery did you use? i looked into external batteries and it doesn't really seem like they make any. The guy with the crazy rig you posted had to build his own.
EOS M

teatotalTED

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 10:03:32 AM »
http://www.indiproco.com/

http://dslrvideoshooter.com/battery-plate-powers-dslr-accessories-12-hours/

I built my own because I'm poor as well. Intend to make another so that I have a more 'cube' arrangement, current one is 'rectangular' and also wanting to keep things small and compact. Indipro tools do a small unit as well as the bigger mothers.
 
I use a couple of cheap mains adaptors Sony and Canon battery chargers as they have removable battery plates, so in theory all I need to do is change a battery plate or both rather than rewire should I want to use a different battery type, as long as its 7.5V. Using Canon HV20 heavy duty, 550D heavy duty and Sony currently. Rod mounted, works well as a counter balance too.

Still struggling with why EOS M, especially because moneys tight and don't see any advantages what so ever over a 700D or even 100D and I think I'd still take 550D lower card speed, lower res raw over fighting focus pixels and overheating. But dfort I know you're doing great work with defeating focus pixels.

dmilligan

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2016, 04:28:04 PM »
Probably the biggest technical advantage over the other cameras you listed is the flange focal distance. You can mount lenses on this camera that are impossible to mount on the cameras with mirrors and still achieve infinity focus. Many such lenses may have also been designed for smaller sensor sizes, which works well for using crop mode. These lenses tend to be cheaper too, so it's not just that the M itself is cheap, but it can also make better use of cheaper lenses. I guess at this point I'm just repeating stuff you already know...

teatotalTED

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2016, 05:11:36 PM »
That's a very good point dmilligan, to utilise lenses for 16mm, CCTV, although I think the imaging circle of 8mm is too small to be a benefit even with cropmode maybe not? But with many smaller chip cameras out there like the BM's those lenses have gone up in price. Ok if you own already maybe and the 2 M lenses are very much the price of EF-S and may end up buying into yet another lens system.

The short flange focal distance also works against it,  for FD, EOS etc the adaptor becomes nearly as long as the lens (on the shorter focal lengths) making it not so portable, so not so much an all rounder more a specialised use maybe, but if it's someones only camera then just a different set of compromises, as with all of them. we make our choices.

dfort

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2016, 07:44:59 PM »
...I think the imaging circle of 8mm is too small to be a benefit even with cropmode maybe not?...

All the CCTV and 16mm lenses that I've tried cover the crop area. To get a wide angle using crop mode you need  a very short lens. For example, I've got this 4.8mm lens:



On the full APS-C sensor it looks like this:


Using Movie crop mode (H.264) it looks like this:


The short flange focal distance also works against it,  for FD, EOS etc the adaptor becomes nearly as long as the lens (on the shorter focal lengths) making it not so portable...

Sure, but putting the same lens on a larger body doesn't make it more portable either does it?

Whether or not you get the EOSM and like it or hate it depends mostly on what you want to do with it. If you want to shoot a documentary in H.264 setting up multiple unattended cameras you'll be happy with the M. Shooting commercials, TV/web series or features in raw video and it will be a huge disappointment. For still photographers it is terrible for action and going through the touch screen to get to most settings takes some getting used to but the quality of the images matches that of much larger and more expensive DSLR's with similar specs.

[EDIT] Almost forgot to mention the shutter-bug. When using EF-M zoom lenses with a wide variety of SD cards the shutter won't fire. Workarounds include twisting the lens off and on and doing a sequence of turning the camera on/off/on with the right timing in order to take stills. All my EOSM ML cards are now SanDisk 32GB Extreme PRO SDHC UHS-I which for some odd reason never exhibit the shutter-bug.
EOSM.202 EOSM.203 700D.115 5D3.*

teatotalTED

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2016, 08:07:16 AM »
dfort thanks, EOS M is not for me, nothing to do with hating, nothing to do with critising other happy M users.

When I mentioned 8mm, I was talking about lenses for 8mm and Super 8mm film, rather than focal length.

No, adding lenses designed for 35mm 8perf doesn't make 550D or other dslr more portable, but two things, the adapter is only a few mms thick so doesn't add much to physical lens length and the EOS M exists for reasons of portability whereas the Rebels which are only slightly bigger are not generally sold or bought with portability in mind unless moving from something bigger I guess.

I've chosen not to go for the EOS M, thanks for the insight.

dfort

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Re: To EOS M users, why?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2016, 04:22:59 PM »
...EOS M is not for me...

When I first got it I hated it and thought I had made a terrible mistake. In hindsight I should have bought a C100 because my main reason to get the M was to try out Magic Lantern before getting a 5D3 to shoot a documentary. Still haven't bought that 5D3 and am spending most of my time hacking code rather than shooting.

...I was talking about lenses for 8mm and Super 8mm film...

I looked into that too but 8mm cine lenses are D mount and I couldn't find any D to EOSM adapters. Note that there are also CS mount lenses that have the same threads a C mount but have a different flange distance. In any case these lenses are pretty much out of the picture for EF mount cameras.

...the EOS M exists for reasons of portability...

I thought the M was Canon's response for a mirrorless camera. The latest iteration, the M5, is still small but their latest lens, the 18-150mm EF-M is starting to get rather large for a small bodied camera.
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