Neat Video tests on RAW footage

Started by beauchampy, October 13, 2014, 09:52:40 PM

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beauchampy



Did a few tests using Neat Video (Resolve OFX version) on some RAW footage (see this thread to see the full feature videohttp://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13571.0)

As with all grading processes, something we want to boost gamma or not crush the shadows - but there's noise there. Neat video does an incredible job of letting me grade exactly how I want, without having to worry about the resulting noise. It does a fantastic job for ML raw video.

For me and my workflow, its an essential plugin.

swinxx

hello,
i also love neatvideo and with version 3.6 it seems that it is now stable with davinci resolve 11.1
however i am shooting a short movie and using it for every shot, with great results.




greets.

chmee

@swinxx:
the color-scenes are awesome. chapeau.
[size=2]phreekz * blog * twitter[/size]

swinxx


Canon eos m

Canon 5D Mark III, Gopro Hero Blacks with 3D Casing, A Few Lenses, Adobe CC 2014, MacBook Pro, Windows 8 PC, Lots of Video Rig!

Started Nuke. Loved it but then the 15 day trial ran out. Back to After Effects and loving it :-)

kgv5

What can you tell about denoising speed in resolve?
EDIT: ok, i can answer my own question. Demo version gives about 3-4 fps (during rendering) compared to 18-20 fps without denoising. I7 with GTX570 win7 64bit.
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

swinxx


beauchampy

Yeah I only get 3-4fps on my MBPr 2013 (Geforce GT 750M 2048mb)

swinxx

Ok, i hava an hackintosh with a 680gtx and 4gb, its way fastet of course.
Perhaps you can gain a little bit with optimization in neat video itself, which version have you installed?

kgv5

3-4 fps is not bad, denoising quality is outstanding, I didnt expect such a great results! Its unbelieveble how good, sharp and detailed picture is, its light years ahead in comparison with denoising any h264 footage. 3-4 fps it's at least 3 times faster than rendering in AE cs6 (1 fps on my computer).  I was testing raw with iso 12800 (5d3) - wow, neat makes such a footage totally usable imho, its like having some new camera ;)
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

swinxx

When you compare ae and davinci its like comparing trabi vs ferrari ;) resolve is much more faster in every instance ;)

N/A

Is everyone denoising before color correction/grading,  or after grading, on final render? I was using it on every clip when I shot h264, but I've barely used it since switching to raw, I do a bit of nr in ACR at the debayer stage but I'm considering switching to denoising on final render.
7D. 600D. Rokinon 35 cine. Sigma 30 1.4
Audio and video recording/production, Random Photography
Want to help with the latest development but don't know how to compile?

beauchampy

Quote from: N/A on October 24, 2014, 03:28:02 PM
Is everyone denoising before color correction/grading,  or after grading, on final render? I was using it on every clip when I shot h264, but I've barely used it since switching to raw, I do a bit of nr in ACR at the debayer stage but I'm considering switching to denoising on final render.

Im applying it on my second to last node, with my last node being grain.

swinxx

hello,
i have made many tests over the last year and it should be like this:

1. denoising in the first node, then
2. color correction, then
3. sharpening, then
4. grain.


greets.

N/A

But Neat Video also has a sharpening option, do you not use that?
7D. 600D. Rokinon 35 cine. Sigma 30 1.4
Audio and video recording/production, Random Photography
Want to help with the latest development but don't know how to compile?

swinxx

ah yes, i use it, but in a moderate manner cause i dont want to overdo it.
the sharpening in resolve is also great - try it out, in the last node, also in a moderate way.
i just use my eyes.. and sharpen the image until i see the difference. then i dail it back 10-15%.

greets.
swinxx

baldavenger

Quote from: beauchampy on October 24, 2014, 04:52:54 PM
Im applying it on my second to last node, with my last node being grain.

Do you apply the denoise before or after a LUT (if and when you use one)?
EOS 5D Mark III | EOS 600D | Canon 24-105mm f4L | Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS II | Canon 50mm f1.4 | Samyang 14mm T3.1 | Opteka 8mm f3.5

DFM

Remember that with raw footage, or anything captured as a pure frame sequence, the requirement for noise removal is very different than for a video codec like H.264. The thermal noise on each DNG is random (so much so, sampling shot noise is one of the best ways to create random numbers in crypotgraphy), hence it's much faster and simpler to reduce it per-frame using ACR etc. as if you're cleaning up a still image. Neat Video has some extremely good algorithms but they are expecting a temporal relationship to the noise signal caused by frame interpolation in the codec, which is why it's such a CPU-intensive plugin. It'll work on raw sequences but it's overkill.

baldavenger

Quote from: DFM on October 25, 2014, 12:21:18 AM
Remember that with raw footage, or anything captured as a pure frame sequence, the requirement for noise removal is very different than for a video codec like H.264. The thermal noise on each DNG is random (so much so, sampling shot noise is one of the best ways to create random numbers in crypotgraphy), hence it's much faster and simpler to reduce it per-frame using ACR etc. as if you're cleaning up a still image. Neat Video has some extremely good algorithms but they are expecting a temporal relationship to the noise signal caused by frame interpolation in the codec, which is why it's such a CPU-intensive plugin. It'll work on raw sequences but it's overkill.

This is the first I have heard of this, so I have to say thank you as you have helped clear up much confusion.  Spatial is the way to go.

Has anyone tried the de-noise/de-grain ofx plugins from Sapphire or Boris FX yet?
EOS 5D Mark III | EOS 600D | Canon 24-105mm f4L | Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS II | Canon 50mm f1.4 | Samyang 14mm T3.1 | Opteka 8mm f3.5

dmilligan

Quote from: DFM on October 25, 2014, 12:21:18 AM
Remember that with raw footage, or anything captured as a pure frame sequence, the requirement for noise removal is very different than for a video codec like H.264. The thermal noise on each DNG is random (so much so, sampling shot noise is one of the best ways to create random numbers in crypotgraphy), hence it's much faster and simpler to reduce it per-frame using ACR etc. as if you're cleaning up a still image. Neat Video has some extremely good algorithms but they are expecting a temporal relationship to the noise signal caused by frame interpolation in the codec, which is why it's such a CPU-intensive plugin. It'll work on raw sequences but it's overkill.
This just isn't correct at all. Just because frames are raw doesn't mean they don't have a temporal relationship. Why do you think astrophotographers stack images? The most effective way to reduce photon noise is to capture more photons. Averaging frames accomplishes this. A good "temporal" video noise reduction algorithm can leverage this fact to average static areas of the frame, effectively reducing noise in those areas (and not artificially reducing noise by blurring or smoothing or what not, but actually truly increasing the SNR, exactly how APers do when they stack frames). Photon noise is truly random as you say, but it is precisely this fact that means it does have a "temporal" relationship => the more photons you collect the lower the noise => when you take another frame, you've collected more photons.

swinxx

hey dmilligan,
thx for good explaination, do you know a good astro stacking tool for mac?

btw: for me neat video works really well!
greets.

kgv5

Quote from: swinxx on October 24, 2014, 09:26:46 PM
hello,
i have made many tests over the last year and it should be like this:

1. denoising in the first node, then
2. color correction, then
3. sharpening, then
4. grain.


greets.

Sorry for the little offtop but what do you use for sharpening in node? YUV color space on channel 1 and then blur to -47 lets say? Or some different method? Do you use also sharpening in RAW tab? Thanks
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

dmilligan

Quote from: swinxx on October 25, 2014, 07:08:28 AM
thx for good explaination, do you know a good astro stacking tool for mac
I use PixInsight. Hands down the best astrophotography software there is. Tough learning curve and not free, but it is the defacto standard.

KurtAugust

Swinxx,

I enjoyed this very much. Deeply. Makes me want to see the whole film. I would like to see the teaser with less compression. Is that possible? For once, anamorphics used well, adding psychological depth to the image, instead as a lens flare machine.
www.kurtaugustyns.com @HetRovendOog

swinxx

@dmilligan..
i took a quick look at pixinsight.. puh.. not very user friendly.. my first question would be.. where should i begin. this software is indeed not a simple to use application. i think i need a one button solution :)

@kurtaugust.
thank you very much.. vimeo and youtube have some compression algos, sadly i have no vimeo plus. if you wanna download it, i can put it into my copy.com account and send you a link.

greets. swinxx