Choppy video on 5d mk11

Started by fenix, April 17, 2014, 11:47:30 PM

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fenix

I have been experimenting with the raw capabilities of the 5d mk11 for a couple months now and have really enjoyed the whole process.  The post processing seems to be a bit extreme but the results are definitely worth the extra hours.  I searched in the forums a few times and could not find a definitive answer to the issue I was having so please excuse the post if it appears redundant.
I am using the 5d mk11 with the Komputerbay 64gb card.  I shoot the footage in the 720 format and I use the latest nightly build with raw modules.  After I shoot I convert my footage with rawmagic, then I grade the dng in camera raw/ output as jpeg in sequential folders/ then I open each folder up as an image sequence in premiere. 
I have set my preferences in Premiere as import still as 1 sec/frame
The issue I have is that the motion in my footage is not smooth.  Most of the time I can trouble shoot this and see where my workflow went wrong, but I have not been able to find the issue as it seems I am following the guidelines carefully.  Since the footage is an image sequence I usually create a sequence which matches the frame rate I shot.. This has more of a negative affect than if I just drag a clip to sequence (auto populate sequence from metadata)
I dont see any frames being dropped in the ML UI so I dont know if it is the komputerbay card or not.  The footage is choppy inside premiere itself so I know the issue is not regarding final encoding.

Anyway, hoping I just missed something plainly obvious/ and also hoped that I gave enough info so someone might see the error I am making.

Here is a link to the choppy footage(I just dragged clips to timeline for an example)

https://vimeo.com/92283074

Midphase

First of all congrats on getting one of those new 5Dmk11 (or I guess as Canon calls them 5DmkXI), I'm still stuck on the 5D3 and I can only dream of the speed and performance that your model must get!

Secondly, I think your problem is the way you import your CDNG's into Premiere as stills. I don't think this is a good way to do it.

You really have two (maybe 3 options) with Premiere:

1. Convert the CDNG sequences to ProRes using either MLRawViewer or Davinci Resolve or AE.

2. Convert the .raw footage with RAWMagic and bring them into Premiere CC as CDNG sequences (not stills) but this will have a nasty pink overcast on your footage which is quite annoying.

3. Convert  the .raw footage with MLRAwViewer into CDNG and bring them into Premiere CC to enjoy an almost-but-not-quite perfect display of your footage.

Within about a month or so (hopefully) a new solution will come out that will display CDNG into Premiere CC perfectly, but if you don't want to wait, the above options are your best bet. Stay away with importing CDNG sequences as stills and re-timing their duration to match the frame rate...it will only result in crap.

fenix

hahhaha! totally messed up with the roman numeral thing..  Thanks man..
Basically I am importing as image sequences like you do for a time-lapse.  I did try in davinci as well, but it seemed like an extra step that was not necessary considering premiere opens as a clip also.
Im wondering why there is an issue importing as image sequences with these files?  I have done countless time-lapses on dollies and never experienced this.   You are probably right, its just I always like to know the actual reason.
Thanks

Midphase

My guess is that Premiere is not really assigning each frame an exact duration of 1/24th of a second, there might be just enough discrepancies in the duration of each image that it causes the weird timing. Probably not noticeable in a time-lapse since it's kinda skippy to begin with, but very noticeable on footage that is supposed to run smoothly.

reddeercity

did you shoot at 24 fps or 23.976 fps ? did you have FPS override enabled to exact?
Where you in Crop mode or 1:1 , if in Crop mode and you don't enable FPS override
you footage will be recorded at 30 FPS no matter what the frame rate is set to in the canon or
ML menu. If you are importing a jpeg image sequence (personal  I wouldn't, why loose all that color depth ,Jpeg 8bit use Tiff at 16bit)
just do a right click on the file "Modify Clip"-->Interpret Footage -->click on "Assume this frame rate:" set to 24p or 23.976
QuoteI have set my preferences in Premiere as import still as 1 sec/frame
do you mean 1/24th /frame ? if not that's you problem, if I understand your issue .
But a better workflow if you like Premiere Pro is to download the new raw2cdng converter and you can import Cdng's directly .
chmee wrote a very nice program link below
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg111806#msg111806
if you use the 16bit maximized option there is really not problems.

Andy600

Yep, Looks like a conform/interpret issue to me. The timing of your slides or pans is also important to avoid temporal aliasing (the juddering effect). Some of the slides look slightly too fast for the frame rate and IMO Real estate videos look better when shot at higher fps. If it's not a conform issue you could try retiming the video to 101% in Resolve using optical flow then conforming to 24p as exact timing does not look too critical here.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Africashot

I think Premiere mostly still does a terrible job interpreting stills sequences and time-remapping, I grade (or convert to log) in After effects and render to an intraframe codec to edit in premiere, it is an extra step and potential minor loss of quality but so much more pleasant to edit.
ML 5D2 & T3i

elfrabo

Quote from: Midphase on April 18, 2014, 12:20:32 AM
First of all congrats on getting one of those new 5Dmk11 (or I guess as Canon calls them 5DmkXI), I'm still stuck on the 5D3 and I can only dream of the speed and performance that your model must get!

Secondly, I think your problem is the way you import your CDNG's into Premiere as stills. I don't think this is a good way to do it.

You really have two (maybe 3 options) with Premiere:

1. Convert the CDNG sequences to ProRes using either MLRawViewer or Davinci Resolve or AE.

2. Convert the .raw footage with RAWMagic and bring them into Premiere CC as CDNG sequences (not stills) but this will have a nasty pink overcast on your footage which is quite annoying.

3. Convert  the .raw footage with MLRAwViewer into CDNG and bring them into Premiere CC to enjoy an almost-but-not-quite perfect display of your footage.

Within about a month or so (hopefully) a new solution will come out that will display CDNG into Premiere CC perfectly, but if you don't want to wait, the above options are your best bet. Stay away with importing CDNG sequences as stills and re-timing their duration to match the frame rate...it will only result in crap.

I'm wondering when using MLRawViewer to convert MLV files it's preferable to convert to CDNG instead to convert to MOV?

Midphase

Quote from: elfrabo on April 18, 2014, 08:24:27 AM
I'm wondering when using MLRawViewer to convert MLV files it's preferable to convert to CDNG instead to convert to MOV?

MLRawViewer will do both, but converting to CDNG is considerably faster than converting to ProRes. For fast ProRes conversion I would still advise using Resolve which is by far the fastest way to do that conversion (although you're first required to convert to CDNG in order to import into Resolve).

Resolve 11 promises really great NLE functionality (and even Resolve 10 isn't a slouch for editing). I've decided that the next project I edit will be done in Resolve. Using Resolve does simplify the process quite a bit and avoids redundant files and extra drive space being needed for .mlv, CDNG and ProRes.

fenix

Really impressed by all the responses here and I really appreciate the help.  It seems the main issue is interpolating the footage in premiere.   I did do the force frame rate on my last couple tests and still had the same issue so it is most likely the premiere image sequence which is throwing things off.  On my next test I will grade in camera raw and then open the files in davinci and export to prores.  I dont understand the crop factor of 1-1 which was mentioned above.  I am choosing aspect ratio 16;9 and recording at 720p.  When you say crop factor are you referring to the zoom 5x recording?  I notice all my footage is cropped when shooting at 720p.

Thanks

Midphase

Yeah, crop is the 5X mode. The problem with the 5D2 is that in order for the card to keep up with the data that needs to be written, the size of the image needs to shrink down. The sensor natively records at 1880x1250, so any size below that will need to be cropped down and pixels will be missing. Further, I don't think you can monitor the crop factor, hence you kinda have to guess what you're actually capturing on the frame.


fenix

Thanks.  So if I shoot natively, then it will not crop?  I have been shooting wider or backup up in the perspective to allow for the crop.  It is not an accurate method but has worked ok so far.  I really have no need to go above 720p as the raw files are large enough, and my output is only for web.  I wish I could achieve the look in davinci that I can in camera raw as it would save a ton of time.  Have not been able to re-produce the grades I get in CR yet..

Midphase

Quote from: fenix on April 21, 2014, 06:00:33 PM
I wish I could achieve the look in davinci that I can in camera raw as it would save a ton of time.  Have not been able to re-produce the grades I get in CR yet..

What do you mean? Are you talking about Resolve vs. ACR in Aftereffects or Lightroom?

fenix

Thanks.  I mean I have used davinci for a few years now and I am really comfortable with the interface, and I am using the control  surface as well.  I cant seem to match the excellent quality I am experiencing with Camera Raw in Davinci.  I'm finding that I can really dial in a grade quickly and the hsl in cr is just awesome and logical.  I dont know what others experience has been, but for me I am just getting much cleaner results from acr

fenix

I took the advice from here and I converted the footage in Davinci into prores 422 quality clips.  This did fix the problem.  I wanted to thank everyone once again for the advice.  This would have taken me a lot longer to figure out without your help.