Magic Lantern Forum

General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: SiSS on August 11, 2016, 11:11:29 PM

Title: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on August 11, 2016, 11:11:29 PM
"CANON ANNOUNCES THE EOS 5D MARK IV"
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-the-eos-5d-mark-iv-dslr/


****************************************************************************
Release date is supposedly 25th and big 5D event starting couple of days after that in Japan.

Lot of reliable rumors surfacing [link updated, full list]:
http://www.canonrumors.com/full-specifications-images-of-eos-5d-mark-iv/

Worst thing so far: No CFast card.
Same codec as in 1DX mark II: 4:2:2 8bit 500mbps MJPEG
No word about uncompressed HDMI out or any LOG, neither of these in 1DX mark II.
Biggest scare so far: Speculation about leaving DPAF out (which sounds crazy).

Newer CPU tough, so...maybe better FullHD ML RAW capabilities at least...
 

Edit: changed title from "Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out"
Edit2: changed title from "to be announced next week"
Edit3: changed title from "Few More Days"
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: GutterPump on August 12, 2016, 12:34:19 PM
Im already in hope to see others Magic Lantern miracles on the 5D mark IV :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: D_Odell on August 12, 2016, 12:39:53 PM
Without CFast I feel it's pretty doomed for higher resolution in Raw. Of course they don't like not to benefit from ML super work...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: Kharak on August 12, 2016, 01:41:03 PM
7 fps at around lets say 25 MB per pic - 175 MB/s write speed? With CF card? Perhaps dual CF card. Or will the pictures have less bits than mk iii ? 12 bit?

A lot of guessing, better wait for the actual release.

What resolution is 30.4 mega pixels?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: GutterPump on August 12, 2016, 02:24:18 PM
Yep. If the buffer limitation isnt the same than the mk III, we can expect best RAW performances even if we cant expect CFast fonction..

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: jmanord on August 12, 2016, 03:18:56 PM
I'm most curious about the resulting floor on reduced mark III prices  :) I'm hooked on ML raw video and would love to pick up a second body "for my wife".
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: chris_overseas on August 12, 2016, 04:25:31 PM
The 5D3 resolution is 5760x3840 and RAW files are (very roughly) 27MB or so each.

A 5D4 at 30.4MP would mean a resolution something like 6750x4500, with RAW files around say 37MB each.

The 5D3 can shoot photos at 6fps, which requires 6 x 27 = ~160MB/s. The 5D3 CF card slot can only write at around 100MB/s though, which is why the onboard RAW buffer fills up (and the fps slows down) after a few seconds of continuous shooting.

Even assuming the 5D4 can write at the maximum theoretical speed of 160MB/s to CF card, at 7fps x 37MB= ~260MB/s the RAW buffer will still fill up (and fps will slow down) quite quickly. Presumably the buffer will be big enough that the 5D4 is capable of 7fps continuous for at least as long as the 5D3, but I wouldn't expect too much beyond that.

As far as continuous RAW video goes, 1920x1080x25fps requires ~87MB/s which is close to the upper limit of the 5D3. Even in the best case scenario on the 5D4 (160MB/s writes), it doesn't look like it would be capable of 1920x1080x50fps continuous but would still have fairly noticeable headroom over the 5D3. Only time will tell what the real numbers are.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: D_Odell on August 14, 2016, 12:46:45 AM
Guessing that without CFast there won't be super slowmo functions. But one buyers wish would be to get a sensor with much much better dynamic range, wishful thinking would be +14 stops. 5D3 has 12 which ain't much nowadays.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: jtvision on August 14, 2016, 05:42:02 PM
Regardless of specs I'm assuning image quality from 4k sensor will be significantly better. I remember not being able to tell the difference between 4k and 1080p footage shot on BMPC, because 1080p shot on 4k sensor is really good.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: ph2007 on August 15, 2016, 12:13:57 PM
really hope the 5d4 will get ML raw, so I can get rid of my 6d ;P
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: MarkusAedo on August 15, 2016, 08:05:09 PM
I'm also extremely bummed cfast cards are not available for this camera. At the very least if these specs are true, the best I can hope for is the SD cards being UHS-II. That would give a substantial boost over the CF cards.

We'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: goldenchild9to5 on August 16, 2016, 07:36:53 AM
Bring on the 5D4 for the 5D3's to drop in price so I can get a second one  :D.   I'll stick with my 5D3 for a very long time. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: chris_overseas on August 17, 2016, 09:42:36 AM
5D4 specs are here: http://www.canonrumors.com/full-specifications-images-of-eos-5d-mark-iv/

Note that it's possible the SD slot (with SDXC) is going to be the faster than the CF slot. We don't know the full spec of that SD slot yet but SDXC v4 with UHS-II is rated at up to 312MB/s.

I'll probably be picking one of these up, but not for another couple of months once there's good availability and the prices drop slightly.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: KelvinK on August 17, 2016, 01:06:30 PM
They say 4:2:2, but no details if its via HDMI or internal.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: SiSS on August 17, 2016, 01:15:46 PM
Good call MarkusAedo and chris_overseas!
CF is at end of the line, Compact Flash Association have decided not to improve the technology anymore.

4:2:2 could be 4K internal.
If I got it right, 1DX II don't have uncompressed HDMI and that was one of the rare firmware updates from Canon to really make a difference when it hit 5DIII.
 
Edit: This is from B&H 1DX II:
When recording in-camera, 4K video has 4:2:2 sampling and 8-bit color depth.
While Full HD 1080p footage has 4:2:0 sampling.
Uncompressed Full HD 1080p video can also be saved via HDMI to an optional external recorder with 4:2:2 color sampling.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: KelvinK on August 17, 2016, 01:37:53 PM
Why they reducing sampling in 1080p? Quite weird.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: KelvinK on August 17, 2016, 01:46:34 PM
They upgraded to USB3.0 at last, I'm sure SD slot will be upgraded too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: SiSS on August 17, 2016, 01:57:48 PM
Missed that, it's a good one too. Speed up tethering I hope...
 
Yeah why reduce sampling in 1080 1D X II?
My guess, Canon still has six different cameras on their Cinema EOS line available:
C100, C100 II, 1DC, C300, C300 II, C500:
http://cinemaeos.usa.canon.com/
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Canon&ci=28624&N=3705627354+4291570227
And more to come at IBC in few weeks (C700? maybe even C100 III by the end of the year?).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: Levas on August 17, 2016, 09:41:36 PM
Does somebody already know what the purpose is of the raw files with full data of DPAF ?
Is it to extract some more detail out ?
30 megapixel sensor, but 60 megapixel with DPAF, but with pairs of pixels under the same RGB color, so I'm curious how much extra detail there is in real life...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: Walter Schulz on August 17, 2016, 09:45:52 PM
Dual-ISO comes to mind ...
But this is just my shot in the dark.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: KelvinK on August 19, 2016, 10:09:41 AM
no Dual-ISO

Newly developed 30.4MP CMOS sensor
Dual Pixel CMOS AF
Dual Pixel RAW: One of the RAW file recording both the normal image and the parallax information. Digital Photo Professional of the “Dual Pixel RAW Optimizer” in the can: three of image processing
Image Micro-adjustment: by using the depth information, fine adjustment enables the position of the maximum sharpness and resolution
Bokeh Shift: to change the position of the previous blur (original: repositions the viewpoint of foreground bokeh for a more pleasing result)
Ghosting Reduction: reduces the ghost and flare

Image processing engine DIGIC6 +
New noise processing algorithm that reduce the noise more effectively
ISO 100-32000 (extended sensitivity ISO 50, ISO 51200, ISO 102400)
DLO (Digital Lens Optimiser) diffraction correction (adds fine detail in the Picture Style)
Auto-Focus 61 points. Corresponding to F8 in all of the distance measuring point. Focusing down to -3EV (live view -4EV)
Seven AF area selection modes, including a “large zone AF”
100% field view in optical finder, magnification 0.71 times
Electronic level (2-axis)
LCD monitor 3.2 inches 1.62 million dots
Touch panel
150,000-pixel RGB + IR metering sensor
252 zone photometry
EOS iSA system
EOS iTR system
Continuous shooting up to 7 frames/sec (OVF is used)
Servo AF live view continuous shooting 4.3 frames/sec.
Touch AF
Touch Shutter
Mirror vibration control system (MVCS)
Anti-flicker system
Wi-Fi built-in (IEEE802.11 b/g/n)
NFC-enabled
EOS’s first FTP/FTPS transfer function (wireless file transmitter required)
GPS built-in
GPS logger function
4K 30fps video mode (MJPEG)
4K 30p 4: 2: 2 support Motion JPEG
Full HD 60 fps (ALL-I, IPB)
HD 120 fps (ALL-I)
JPEG images of 8.8MP from 4K video in the camera
0.25 times the HD 120fps high frame rate movies for slow motion
CF (UDMA7) and dual-card slot of SD/SDHC/SDXC (UHS-I)
Built-in interval timer and valve timer
Durability of the shutter 150,000 actuations
Magnesium alloy body
Weather sealing (dust and water)
The size is 150.7mm x 116.4mm x 75.9mm (5.93 x 4.58 x 2.98 inches)
Weight: 890g/1.96lbs (battery, including memory card), 800g/1.76lbs (body only)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: KelvinK on August 19, 2016, 10:13:10 AM
and unfortunately no SDXC-UII  :'(
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: ph2007 on August 19, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
any info about the HDMI output?
will it be a clean HDMI?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: Greg on August 20, 2016, 12:04:07 AM
Do not worry, none dev will buy 5D4.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: jmanord on August 20, 2016, 01:28:44 AM
Why would they need to buy one? Surely the leaked photos are enough to allow the devs to have ML working on day one. If not, I'm sure they are highly motivated by all the $ and thank you posts that are heaped upon them daily.  ;)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: Levas on August 20, 2016, 11:37:10 AM
Look Canon, here is the source code http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview (http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview)
Please tweak it a little so it works on your nice newly 5d4  ;D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: extremelypoorfilmaker on August 20, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
Look Canon, here is the source code http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview (http://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/overview)
Please tweak it a little so it works on your nice newly 5d4  ;D

:D ahahahhahaha if only.. could I e-mail this comment to Canon CEO :D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - to be announced next week
Post by: mikekx102 on August 21, 2016, 06:45:52 AM
KelvinK, do you have a reference for the 5D mark IV not supporting UHS-II in its SD slot? Such as a link to where those specifications are from. Canon Rumors don't specify the speed, and I haven't found its speed mentioned in any of the other rumor locations, but this really is an important feature (to be UHS-II) and I would really hope Canon would include it.

The 5D mark iii didn't support UHS-I and was limited to 133x (20MB/s), which is why it is so important to use CF cards. The 6D was released later and supported UHS-I, and card tests at the time showed many cards transferring at 35-36 MB/s. UHS-II has been released and the fastest SD card I can find is the Lexar Professional 2000x UHS-II SDXC which is 300MB/s. As opposed to available CF cards max speed of 160MB/s.

That same SD card in tests has shown extended write speeds of 250MB/s. For a camera that doesn't have CFast 2, to me this would be an acceptable downgrade and if ML can produce Raw 4K, then I would definitely like the fastest card available. UHS-I makes me cringe!

I have a 4K monitor and although I mostly take photos, I would also like to create landscape screensavers, such as waves crashing on rocks etc. So I'm really looking forward to what ML can do with the 5D Mark iv. I'm not sure how I can contribute, but I would really like to.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - Few More Days
Post by: SiSS on August 23, 2016, 06:02:35 PM
UHS-I can be found from the original source:
http://digicame-info.com/2016/08/eos-5d-mark-iv-12.html
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on August 25, 2016, 05:38:06 AM
Announced
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-the-eos-5d-mark-iv-dslr/

Canon USA
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary

HDMI and USB ports are lot better and for bonus there's USB 3.0 Micro B port cable protector included.

Comparison to 5D Mark III
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/comparison

Video samples
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/videos

B&H first look - with video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives-two-updated-l-series-lenses
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: jsc on August 25, 2016, 06:33:03 AM
I see that HDMI is limited to Full HD only. Boo! Is it humanly possible that ML could hack this so that I could get 4K to my Pix-e5?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on August 25, 2016, 08:44:26 AM
My Dinamic range bet is: 12.90 EV.

@a1ex can calculate this at iso 100, normalized at the size of the frame  cropped for video at the new (same as 1D II) Digic 6 +
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on August 25, 2016, 11:07:13 AM
if the camera can write at least at 130mb/s and we could get 2.5k/24 or 1920x818/50fps nonstop i would be happy. also waiting for some sensor testing for the most critical aspect- DR.
and ofc lets pray for some1 to port ML :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on August 25, 2016, 02:06:40 PM
Most of these as expected:
- DCI 4K (not UHD) center crop 1.74x
- 500 Mbps in 8-bit 4:2:2 at 29.97, 25, 24, 23.98 fps
- FullHD 59.94fps 4:2:0 8-bit
- External recording uncompressed 1080 YCbCr 4:2:2 8-bit, no 4K
- HDMI 1.3
- USB 3.0
- Same CF card, SD card is UHS-I only
- Single Digic 6+, however, promo video shows Digic 6 also:
https://youtu.be/8Z9089048wk?t=46s


Title: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV
Post by: erek on August 25, 2016, 02:27:06 PM
I really hope that Magic Lantern RAW video support is possible on the 5D Mark IV for 4K recording!~

https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/25/canons-eos-5d-mark-iv-has-a-34-megapixel-sensor-and-4k-video/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Lars Steenhoff on August 25, 2016, 02:48:38 PM
Yes still very exiting as a possible RAW hack camera, to have a raw camera with autofocus is great potential.  not so much interesting without hack for video work.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on August 25, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
OK trying to sum some thoughts up, hardware limitations currently reducing possibilities with Magic Lantern....
These are limitations with CF card system, and CPU buffer, right?

To get that DCI 4K at 25, 24, 23.98 fps RAW would hit that limitation?
Motion JPEG is heavy tough. RAW might be easier? Also the crop helps?
Sadly it's weird crop for traditional framing, but not the worst.
USB 3.0 some help for the Dev's?
And new Digic 6+ power.

Latest 5D mark III firmware didn't dance so well with ML?
6D Mark II coming up 2017 probably with better 4K crop factor.


Edit: Maybe 12-bit/10-bit 4K/FullHD RAW could be easier?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5601.0
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: festr on August 25, 2016, 03:19:07 PM
maybe the digic6+ would allow some dng compression?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 25, 2016, 03:21:42 PM
Wonder if ML would be able to do the 4K RAW without crop or am i misunderstanding that possibility?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on August 25, 2016, 03:56:12 PM
Latest 5D mark III firmware didn't dance so well with ML?

Sorry?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: KelvinK on August 25, 2016, 04:04:57 PM
2016 year. Canon new camera. 3500$ price tag.... Mono MIC. Period.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Kharak on August 25, 2016, 05:17:54 PM
1.74x crop is very meh to me..

But then again, full frame dci 4k 500 mbps 422 would cannibalize on their cinema line. So not very surprising that their flagship photo camera does not have anything serious to offer in the video department.

I was expecting a soft pixel bined 4k h264 image.

Even 2.5 k raw 1:1 will result in something like 3x crop. Also useless, but who knows.. This is Magic Lantern after all and the magic the developers here have made in the past and today proves to me, never to say never.

I also noticed the dual or two cpu's in the promo video. A digic 6+ and digic 6, so some serious cpu power. But I got a feeling Canon made some extra effort to prevent hacking.. No source just looking at how the 5D ML III took its share of the C100 line. I dont think they want a repeat of that, as in no C-log for the 1dx II and mkIV.

But overall it looks like an amazing photographic camera.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: katrikura on August 25, 2016, 05:34:32 PM
I leave an ironic, but real analysis of the camera 5D4:

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20499-174x-a-crop-odyssey-canon-5d-mark-iv-officially-announced/ (http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20499-174x-a-crop-odyssey-canon-5d-mark-iv-officially-announced/)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ddelreal on August 25, 2016, 06:03:08 PM
Epic Canon fail. I sure hope ML can come to my 7D2 soon or I might finally be done with Canon.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Kharak on August 25, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
I would take anything Andrew Reid writes with a grain of salt. He is consumed with fanboyism and contradictions as he "reviews" cameras on speccs rather than usage. Basically the entire eoshd forum is that way, where people are extremely offended with negative reviews of their purchases or eager to promote why their camera is still the best.

But eoshd has a really good anamorphic forum.

And its "sarcastic" @katrikura
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ansius on August 25, 2016, 08:45:11 PM
IMHO

well 1.74x crop would be ok if you could mount EFs lenses, there are some good ones that are sharp enough for 4K, good that most 3rd party manufacturers like sigma, tamron and tokina make their glass EF not EFs mount, despite not covering the FF sensor. So unless there are some other huge problems like moire it is still a good option then. tough if it got moire then - sorry, but canon really screwed this up then...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: jackmoro on August 25, 2016, 10:52:42 PM
@ansius  Do you expect people change lenses for stills and video? This is ridiculous. 4 years of anticipation for 4k 1.74x crop mode. And mono mic is a just a joke too. QQ.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: reddeercity on August 26, 2016, 12:39:23 AM
I Think Canon did I Good job ! Considering there have a complete Line of Cine Cameras .   
From what I can see & read it looks like there used 1DC firmware Video functions in to the 5d4 .
Canon did say there where going to make 5d4 a Low cost High quality Video rich feature dslr and for 3499.00 USD .
You could spend twice that and get a c100 and get all those video cameras extra , Oh but wait AVC 4.2.0 and no 4K 4.2.2 DCI
Or C300 Mrk2 and get 10bit 4k raw 12,000 USD , So yea 5d4 is what I expected . Can't wait to get a hands on when my Camera Store
gets one in stock . And of course there will be firmware updates that could unlock more features I'm betting .

I see only 2 draw backs but not really a problem,
1st) 29:59 minute record limit (since this is no longer required anymore , I  think there are protecting the Cine/Video Camera lines)
2nd) Picture Style , I would have like to see the Canon C-Log but there is room for 3 user picture style profiles , So Technicolor CineStyle should work
Or the 1DC's VideoX picture Style VideoX picture Style (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/picturestyle/file/videocamera.html)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 26, 2016, 06:56:45 AM
Is this true, no chance currently for non-CROP 1.73x 4K?

"Based on their current understanding and implementation of RAW video, they can only crop in to a smaller area, not expanding the imaging area." :

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20499-174x-a-crop-odyssey-canon-5d-mark-iv-officially-announced/?do=findComment&comment=158190
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 26, 2016, 07:44:33 AM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: KelvinK on August 26, 2016, 11:06:12 AM
reddeercity

Unfortunately you're wrong.

1. 1DC has C-Log, grading wise (if you ever tried) it's no where close to Technicolor CineSyle. It's looks similar on paper only.
2. 1DC has 1.3x crop

Saying, "this is good, because they have Cine line", is wrong too. It could be true only if there were no rivals on the market. Sony, Panasonic has Cine lines too, but still managing to give much more features for their customers in their hybrid cameras. Canon didn't include even simple zebras and made our 24mm become 42mm when shooting 4k. Probably to force us buy new 16-35.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mikekx102 on August 26, 2016, 11:30:27 AM
No CFast sucks, but what really grinds my gears is UHS-I. Since you could use a UHS-I or II card in a UHS-II slot, the only reason I can see for this is that Canon DESPERATELY don't want ML hacks allowing for great video. I was really hoping for media options that could allow for 4k Raw video. It also means that the image buffer is (pathetically) small.

USB3, on the other hand, allows for theoretical transfer speeds of up to 640MB/s, and since RAW video fills a card so quickly anyway, perhaps ML could allow for tethered video shooting where the video is saved straight onto a laptop via USB3. Is there a reason this couldn't work?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on August 26, 2016, 12:50:50 PM
so sad for the 5d4 :(
most future just leaning back to still photo cameras (oh wait... DPraw is good? but you have to use DPP.... maybe wait untill adobe support it in lightroom?)
if ML wont be running on 5d4, I am done with canon going to full sony for sure.

canon just wanted the filmakers to buy their overpriced C line up
/cry for us low budget productions
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on August 26, 2016, 12:55:29 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor

for super35 camera has huge advantage over the 5D4, coz you can use speedbooster to get 1 stop light and yuou will get back a closer full frame 35mm fov at the end.
for 5D4 you are doommed.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: KelvinK on August 26, 2016, 01:17:49 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the RED cameras at 4K a 1.73x CROP aka Super 35mm?  I checked out this tool, and it seems that the Canon 5D Mark IV 1.73x Crop is going to be the same as what a RED Camera is at 4K ... aka Super 35mm ...


http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor

This is wrong statement. To get real crop you should select correct Reference Frame. Red Full Frame native 5k has 1x crop, 4k - 1.25x etc.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: thrower on August 26, 2016, 02:41:34 PM
Sorry guys, probably that's very dumb question but:

How the heck mkVI is storing listed in specs 500 Mbps 4k Mjpeg video onto CF card?

Am I messing up writing speed and bitrate?
-----------
Al in all that's really sad day. Sonys and m4\3s are great cameras but i think we all have been dreaming about affordable Full-frame RAW 4k from Canon, with all low-light and DPOF possibilities, especially with Dual-pixel AF, which is HUGE for gimbals and drones.

Of course there haven't been any warranties that ML team have will and\or possibility to hack mkVI successfully, but anyway that would be HUGE accelerator on the market - forcing every other manufacture to speed up and drop prices on existing stuff. In the end, we all just win from that. Even if canon would feature one cfast slot - that would cause a massive demand on cfast, IMO substantial for making them bit cheaper.
Now, since Canon has said their word, i think it's much less pressure on Sony (since they already dominate "dslr"-video with much older models and Nikon (since their d810 de-facto is one of the best landscape\studio cameras and it's 2 years old)

I would love if mkVI sales would break down, but that's not true - there are army of fanboys and simply professional photographers who have been stuck at not really contemporary mkIII so again canon would be off the hook for their crippling policy.

Actually, AS FOR TODAY, taking in account 5d MKVI - is good and balanced stills camera from one of the most reliable manufacturer. much overpriced though.

But just IMAGINE those UHS-i cards in 2019 or 2020 on a canon PRO full-frame camera.... cant believe they did it...

But as for me - there's nothing i cannot do with my mk III and 6d in terms of photography, what mkVI can offer, I'll wait, or pull trigger on BM.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on August 26, 2016, 05:20:40 PM
Maybe you guys shouldn't worry about crop factor, before you get the concept right.

Crop Factor compared to 5D FullFrame.
(Source is Abelcine FOV comparator - in the ballpark, not updated lately)

Crop Factor = 1.2x
- Canon 1DC at 4K (as known as APS-H)

Crop Factor = 1.3x
- RED Dragon 6K HD

Crop Factor = 1.4x
- Super35 Film
- RED Epic 5K HD

Crop Factor = 1.5x
- Arri Alexa (2.8k I think)
- Canon 7D (as know as APS-C)
- Canon C100
- Canon C300
- Canon C500
- Panavision Genesis
- Sony F65
- Sony FS700

Crop Factor = 1.6x
- Sony F55/F5

Crop Factor = 1.7x
- RED Epic 4K HD
- BlackMagic Production Camera 4K

Crop Factor = 2.0-2.9x
- BlackMagic Cinema Camera 2.3x
- Black Magic Pocket Camera 2.9x

Crop Factor = 3x
- Super16 Film
- Sony F5/F55 2K Center Crop
 
Micro Four Thirds = about 2.0x
Canon XC10 = 2.7x
Broadcasting cameras 2/3-inch chip = around 3.8x
iPhone 6 = 7.2x
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 26, 2016, 05:25:28 PM
Seems a Red One (if speedbooster exists for it) is a better option than the 5D4?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-One-MX-Mysterium-X-Camera-with-CF-module-PL-mount/251689683525?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38806%26meid%3D709fe934acce4b159196a212f7526034%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D162176987397
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: jackmoro on August 26, 2016, 09:40:07 PM
@erek, Red will always have much better native image then native Canon DSLR, but you can't compare it price wise. One you linked is just body-brick, you will need spend much more for accessories to start film with it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: jackmoro on August 26, 2016, 10:32:49 PM
old but fits well :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on August 27, 2016, 12:12:46 AM
^
Damn I laugh so hard on this one....
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Clean76 on August 27, 2016, 04:17:41 AM
Well im excited about the new one. Wont be out for awhile and already seeing deals thatll let me upgrade to a 5DM2 or even M3 from my old T4i. Excited to enter the world of continuous HD RAW
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Ilia3101 on August 27, 2016, 06:18:55 PM
Canon has taken inspiration from Magic Lantern:
(Skip to 13:50)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on August 28, 2016, 06:36:19 AM
Canon has taken inspiration from Magic Lantern:
(Skip to 13:50)
Yea I also noticed, the way they did the HDR video just exactly same as ML did it.
wonder they just copy paste ML code into thier firmware lol.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 28, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
I came to the realization that the general Internet Infrastructure isn't really up to par for 4K streaming, and barely 1080p even.  Most smart phones / cellular networks aren't going to be doing 4K.  My only interest in Full Frame 4K 14-bit Uncompressed RAW video is the advantage of possible image quality after down sampling to 1080p.   I don't see many real viable delivery methods to the mass public where even 1080p streaming over a smart phone with our current internet infrastructure is unrealistic unless on Wi-Fi.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Danne on August 28, 2016, 04:09:30 PM
HDR mode reminds of averaging/tonemapping the way it can be done with ffmpeg tblend filter in post. Probably won,t be possible to set iso intervals.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 28, 2016, 06:42:21 PM
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on August 28, 2016, 11:06:27 PM
5D Mark IV Rolling Shutter Performance isn't too good either:

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: KelvinK on August 29, 2016, 10:33:15 AM
I came to the realization that the general Internet Infrastructure isn't really up to par for 4K streaming, and barely 1080p even.  Most smart phones / cellular networks aren't going to be doing 4K.  My only interest in Full Frame 4K 14-bit Uncompressed RAW video is the advantage of possible image quality after down sampling to 1080p.   I don't see many real viable delivery methods to the mass public where even 1080p streaming over a smart phone with our current internet infrastructure is unrealistic unless on Wi-Fi.

You don't need to post video in 4k, just downscale if needed. But 4k in post gives you crop freedom, less stress in field when framing etc.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: erek on September 01, 2016, 06:10:36 AM
Wish the 5D Mark IV had a Global Shudder a la their brand new CMOS Sensor :

http://petapixel.com/2016/08/31/canon-unveils-cmos-sensor-global-shutter/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: reddeercity on September 01, 2016, 08:31:04 AM

If could find a old red camera like the video for cheap , I would be all over it ! The number 1 reason is basically the workflow
you can work with the raw native in FCPX , that's the workflow I always hope for in ML Raw video.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on September 01, 2016, 09:56:15 AM
The number 1 reason is basically the workflow
you can work with the raw native in FCPX , that's the workflow I always hope for in ML Raw video.
I wonder how hard if you reverse engine to r3d format and implant into mlv?
Is it posible? :o
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Levas on September 01, 2016, 10:14:55 AM
r3d format is probably patented or something like that, because it's also a compressed raw format.
So copying it, would be some sort of illegal I guess ;D
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on September 01, 2016, 10:39:41 AM
r3d format is probably patented or something like that, because it's also a compressed raw format.
So copying it, would be some sort of illegal I guess ;D
doh, I hope my programing skill is good enuff to do it myself and made a custom r3d for myself lol.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 04, 2016, 02:38:40 PM
FYI, Laurent Clévy, the guy behind http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/, already found out how to extract dual pixel data from a 5D4 CR2:

https://twitter.com/lorenzo2472/status/771085695255474176
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 06, 2016, 02:05:14 AM
Sneak preview of what's inside a dual pixel RAW:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/_91A0045.gif)

Middle: main image data; Laurent calls it "unsliced"; probably (a+b)
Right: what Laurent calls "unslicedB"
Left: "unsliced" - "unslicedB"

https://twitter.com/autoexec_bin/status/772943052797276160
https://twitter.com/hirax/status/772784433761951744

Noise levels in optical black area: 3.55 for main, 3.47 for B, 3.49 for difference. White level 16383, black level 2048, useful range 14335 DN.

Image B has 1 stop of extra highlight detail, compared to main. DR (simplified): log2(14335 / 3.54) = 12 stops in main image, 13 stops if you take the highlights from B.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: dfort on September 06, 2016, 02:38:17 AM
Well this is interesting. I worked on 3D productions and that does look very much like left eye/right eye images. Don't know what to make of the third eye!

Shooting 3D with a single lens and sensor was being developed by Lytro. Their first product's claim to fame was that you could adjust the focus in post. However they never caught on and the company no longer manufactures consumer products, though Lytro (https://www.lytro.com/) is still developing some interesting VR technology.

Wonder if there's a 3D option coming for the 5D4.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: chris_overseas on September 06, 2016, 08:17:56 AM
Dual Pixel RAW is certainly looking intriguing. I'm curious to know if the hardware can control the ISO of the A and B pixels separately, opening up the possibility of an improved type of dual ISO. [Edit: I guess this is unlikely, given dual ISO works by alternating ISO every second row rather than by column]

There's a few new pieces of info about the 5D4 in general in this interview:

http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2016/09/03/canon-5d-mark-iv-eos-1dx-mark-ii-and-5ds-r-top-canon-tech-rep-rudy-winston-answers-my-questions-and-yours/

Interesting to see that using UHS-II SD cards might give worse performance than UHS-I.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 06, 2016, 09:01:19 AM
Interesting to see that using UHS-II SD cards might give worse performance than UHS-I.

That's quite old news. (http://www.legitreviews.com/sandisk-extreme-pro-uhs-ii-32gb-memory-card-review_142592/2) You can find some of the cards affected in http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/reviews/card-readers/transcend-usb-3-0-card-reader-rdf5/
All the cards marked UHS-II and running below 70 MByte/s writing should not be used in Canon cams with fast UHS-I slots:
- Lexar Professional 1000x microSD UHS-II 32GB (64 GB and up are performing better)
- Delkin 1900x UHS-II 32GB
- SanDisk Extreme Pro 280MB/s UHS-II 32GB (all of them AFAIK, but new Extreme Pro generation (275 MB/s) not affected)
- Panasonic MicroP2 UHS-II 32GB
and maybe others.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: squig on September 06, 2016, 09:49:55 AM
I'm getting the impression from the cinema5D article and video that 1080p is downsampled not pixel binned.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: eduperez on September 06, 2016, 10:25:10 AM
Well this is interesting. I worked on 3D productions and that does look very much like left eye/right eye images. Don't know what to make of the third eye!
Wonder if there's a 3D option coming for the 5D4.

Well, it is a left/right eye image, only that the distance between the eyes is in the order of magnitude of the diameter of the front lens, so I would not expect much 3D effect from this; here you have a quick anaglyph conversion from the image posted above (red filter on left eye, blue filter on right eye):

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14091554/ML/5Dmk4.png)

The "third eye" in that example is created during the RAW conversion by merging the images from both eyes; as far as I know, it should not be relevant to 3D.

EDIT: Another interesting facts about this technology:
* Both images will be automatically aligned on the focusing distance: objects closer to the camera than the focusing plane will appear to come out of the monitor, and objects further away than the focusing pane will appear to be inside the monitor; the focusing plane will always match the surface of the monitor.
* The amount of 3D effect will depend on the aperture used to take the image: the larger the aperture, the larger the effect; in images taken using the hyperfocal technique, there will be no 3D effect at all.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 06, 2016, 02:25:11 PM
Highlight recovery demo (the extra stop I was talking about):

http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/canon-dual-pixel-mode-highlights-are-there
http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Greg on September 06, 2016, 04:03:37 PM
http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-patent-next-dual-pixel-cmos-auto-focus-70d-end-story/
http://www.dailycameranews.com/2015/06/canon-patent-for-nd-filter-to-increase-dynamic-range/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Levas on September 06, 2016, 08:52:50 PM
I downloaded some canon 5d4 raw files from that swedish site, curious about how much focus shift can be done.
Downloaded the newest Digital Photo Professional 4 (version 4.4.30.2) from the canon website.
But it can't open/recognize the 5d4 files...

Does anybody know where can I download the actual DPP4 version which can open the CR2's from the 5d4 ?


Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Levas on September 06, 2016, 09:01:46 PM
By the way, Interesting stuff, that extra stop in the highlights  :D
According to that ND patent, it's a ND filter in the microlens which can be switched on and off...so it's not done on CMOS level, like dual iso.
I guess this means it's fixed at only one stop of difference, between the two images.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 06, 2016, 10:36:53 PM
Here, it looks like Canon simply adds the signals from both subpixels and clips the result. The patent makes it possible to push it even further, but I doubt this one is used here.

The extra highlights in the second image will effectively give a true ISO 50. The Swedish sample is at ISO 400, but the comments at http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology confirm my hypothesis.

However, it's not clear to me whether selecting ISO 50 in Canon menu actually brings that extra highlight detail in the main raw image. The comments on the RawDigger website seem to suggest this is not the case, but I'm not 100% sure.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Simonwb on September 08, 2016, 06:42:40 PM
Well, my 5D4 has arrived but I won't get time to play with it until this weekend.  I could try to shoot some comparison footage - would you like to see any formats in particular?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on September 08, 2016, 07:26:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0S8shTk94E
looks like the dual pixel not as what we expected nothing come close to lytro :(
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 08, 2016, 09:25:00 PM
Well, my 5D4 has arrived but I won't get time to play with it until this weekend.  I could try to shoot some comparison footage - would you like to see any formats in particular?

Yes, please.

Our friends from darktable are also looking for samples to add support for 5D4 in their next version, so I'm including their requirements as well.

To check white levels (for darktable):
  - take a picture at every single ISO, in both dual pixel and regular (full-sized) raw mode.
  - every picture should have some overexposed highlights.

To check crop area (for darktable):
  - a fully clipped sample at ISO 100, 30s, fully open aperture. Both dual and regular.

For color profiling:
  - preferred (for darktable): https://encrypted.pcode.nl/blog/2010/06/28/darktable-camera-color-profiling/
  - easier (good enough for me): a static colorful scene, taken with both 5D4 and another full-frame Canon camera. Same settings, same lens, same framing. Both sunlight and tungsten light (doesn't have to be the same scene). Regular raw only, ISO 100.

For checking the dynamic range and SNR curve:
  - prepare a HDR static scene (a desk lamp pointed towards the camera, and some black items near it, something like this (http://wiki.panotools.org/File:Lamp_enfuse.jpg)).
  - if you are in PAL land, and your light source flickers, use a shutter speed of 1/50, 1/25 and so on.
  - defocus the lens
  - for every ISO:
      - choose a shutter speed and aperture that gives some clipped highlights and some deep shadows in the same picture
      - take two pictures using the built-in intervalometer (no motion between them)
      - take a bracketed set of images, centered at the settings used for the previous step (5 x 1 EV should be fine).
  - dual raw only.

For playing with the dual pixel refocusing tricks:
  - a resolution chart or some fine print, taken with perfect focus, front focus (various degrees) and back focus (various degrees).
  - any other test pictures you consider relevant for this feature, focus-bracketed in the same way.
  - repeat at various apertures and focus distances (not extensive coverage, just some random configurations of your choice)
  - ISO 100, dual raw only, with as little camera motion as possible.

For playing with super-resolution tricks (you know, getting a 60-megapixel picture):
  - with a zoom lens, take pictures of something with fine details (resolution chart, fine print, textures that give heavy aliasing, whatever) at a few focal lengths, with slightly bracketed focus, at the aperture setting where your lens is the sharpest.
  - ISO 100, dual raw only, with as little camera motion as possible.

You don't have to do all of these at once; it will probably take more than one weekend to capture everything I've asked for. And it will probably take me months to analyze all that :D

For me, individual files on a FTP server would work best, but archives (separate for each subtask) should work as well. I prefer simple links (accessible from a text-based browser) and files named properly (so I can recognize what they are before downloading).

Thanks, hope my request is not too overwhelming. Of course, other 5D4 owners are welcome to help.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: rawvideo on September 08, 2016, 10:13:31 PM
Well, my 5D4 has arrived but I won't get time to play with it until this weekend.  I could try to shoot some comparison footage - would you like to see any formats in particular?

I would very much like a night scene of a street or something similar, mostly dark with a few bright lights (streetlamps), high ISO, maybe the highest the 5DIII does with auto iso and then 2 raws with the same image and lens from the 5DIII and 5DIV. No longtime exposures, just fast enough to be handheld. :) To see if there is any improvement for my lowlight theater photography (besides the now actually and finally visible focus points).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: MitchLally on September 09, 2016, 05:46:35 AM
I got my Mark IV yesterday. Doing a bunch of tests and I dared try to record 4K 24p to my Sandisk 95mb/s SD card. It recorded an uninterrupted 16 minute file (63GB single file) to the card.

I guess this is good news for the SD slot speed?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 09, 2016, 07:16:57 AM
Thanks! Seems to be legit to say Canon has implemented fastest UHS-I mode (UHS104/SDR104: 99.18 MiByte/s) in 5D4, too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Simonwb on September 09, 2016, 08:54:47 AM
@a1ex @rawvideo

Will do, I'll let you know how I get on.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: chris_overseas on September 09, 2016, 04:52:15 PM
5D4 teardown: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/09/lensrentals-canon-5d-mk-iv-teardown/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on September 11, 2016, 05:36:03 AM
Sorry if the girl is the girlfriend or wife of someone here,  but, I think I will found her and make lot of videos ;)

(5d IV video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5rn1ZnnSTY

Other girl to find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpfUcN0hLY

Vote: girl 1 or girl 2

:)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: rawvideo on September 11, 2016, 10:37:35 PM
That 4k Video looks like upscaled 1080p. :D I've seen crisper 4k content, but maybe the small depth of field makes it look softer than usual..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 12, 2016, 10:25:31 AM
Depth map (two algorithms):

(http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/arc/F9/DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934/input_0.png) (http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/arc/F9/DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934/input_1.png)
(http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/arc/F9/DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934/disparity.png) (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/dmap.jpg)

First algorithm (online demo):
http://demo.ipol.im/demo/78/archive/?key=F9DAF4DB86A22329D968CC5ADF813934

Second algorithm is from OpenCV 3.x (tutorial (http://docs.opencv.org/3.1.0/dd/d53/tutorial_py_depthmap.html)):

Code: [Select]
import numpy as np
import cv2

# read input images
imgL = cv2.imread('A.jpg',0)
imgR = cv2.imread('B.jpg',0)

# compute the depth map
stereo = cv2.StereoSGBM_create(minDisparity=-8, numDisparities=16, blockSize=15)
disparity = stereo.compute(imgL,imgR) + 128

# convert to 8-bit (required by medianBlur)
disparity = np.clip(disparity, 0, 255)
disparity = disparity.astype(np.uint8)

# clean up the depth map a bit
disparity = cv2.medianBlur(disparity, 15)

# adjust levels to increase contrast (hardcoded)
disparity = np.clip((disparity.astype(np.int32) - 80) * 4, 0, 255);

# save the depth map image
cv2.imwrite("dmap.jpg", disparity)

Can you get better results?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: chris_overseas on September 12, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
Looks like stereoscopic images are possible, with quite good results: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58326573
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: dragit on September 13, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Hi everyone, long time reader, first time poster…

Just wondering what people think the likelihood is of frame rates higher than 50/60 are at 1080 in the future with ML?

I can live with quality of the H264 codec and haven't got time for the current RAW workflow, but would love the ability to shoot 100/120FPS like the 1DX ii 1080.

cheers
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Greg on September 13, 2016, 05:30:56 PM
Who said that ML will support 5D4?

1Dx II has a faster sensor. If you compare full-res FPS, 5D4 should 80-90 FPS.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Simonwb on September 18, 2016, 01:19:28 PM
@a1ex here's my first batch of test images:

To check white levels: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mv9ukwyueeh5cq7/AAB7hCeEqFzvqNZNAofza8XAa?dl=0

To check crop area: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l4h7xiue8vc2mda/AADQnaxi14kRglNFmKHmba7Va?dl=0

For colour profiling: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bo9gc02eyde7yjm/AADmjsp-v6OKXEJfL8l3HCP3a?dl=0

I'm a real newbie at this, so I hope these files are useful.  Unfortunately, the darktable colour profiling page completely mystified me.

On the dynamic range & SNR curve: could you explain what you mean by "a bracketed set of images....5 x 1EV"; I understand bracketing, but not the 5 x 1EV part.

On the dual pixel refocusing: what do you mean by front focus and back focus?  The only terminology I'm familiar with is back button focussing...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Simonwb on September 18, 2016, 01:21:18 PM
@rawvideo

Here's my attempt at your requested night scene shots: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q1fpp5bg37mxkob/AADfvKFyGV2p4-Kuw4Z-sHvra?dl=0

Hope they work for you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 18, 2016, 01:23:55 PM
Thanks, will check them later.

5 x 1 EV is the notation used by ML (5 pictures spaced 1 EV apart).

For your last question: http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/14437/what-do-frontfocus-and-backfocus-mean
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: rawvideo on September 18, 2016, 02:55:15 PM
@Simonwb

Nice, thanks for the effort. :)

Seems I wont upgrade for the better image quality but just for the better AF in the dark, WLAN and better AutoISO.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Simonwb on September 25, 2016, 02:23:17 PM
@a1ex here's my dual pixel raw focus bracketing shots:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1yj3ne852z2aupb/AAD-CuZds0RzIk5OkPEQwJTAa?dl=0

Thanks for the link explaining front/back focus; I don't know if/how to force this in-camera using autofocus, so I did it using manual focus via EOS Utility remote shooting on a Macbook, hopefully finely enough and in a systematic way for you - I'm assuming you can pick up the apertures used etc used on each shot via the exif information?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: chris_overseas on September 29, 2016, 02:23:56 PM
The first firmware update is available for 5D4:

http://www.canon.de/support/consumer_products/products/cameras/digital_slr/eos-5d-mark-iv.aspx?type=firmware&firmwaredetailid=tcm:83-1475064
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 29, 2016, 08:49:25 PM
Tried to run it in QEMU, with some missing bits from 80D:

Code: [Select]
BootLoaderEND
K349 READY
K349 ICU Firmware Version 1.0.2 ( 7.4.6 )
ICU Release DateTime 2016.08.08 13:27:10

Code: [Select]
[      init:fe2b5f0d ] task_create(PowerMgr, prio=20, stack=400, entry=fe2b5e35, arg=0)
[      init:000022bf ] task_create(DbgMgr, prio=1f, stack=0, entry=223b, arg=816454)
[      init:fe0e77d7 ] task_create(Startup, prio=19, stack=2800, entry=fe0e76c9, arg=816c78)
[      init:fe0de4a5 ] task_create(TaskMain, prio=1d, stack=0, entry=fe0dd9a1, arg=0)
[      init:fe0e14b7 ] task_create(RomRead, prio=11, stack=400, entry=fe0e0ef7, arg=600006)
[      init:fe0e14c9 ] task_create(SFRead, prio=11, stack=400, entry=fe0e0ef7, arg=620008)

Code: [Select]
Setting BOOTDISK flag to FFFFFFFF
BootLoad
CF Detect High
SLOT_A LOAD OK.
Open file for read : AUTOEXEC.BIN
File size : 0xD120
Now jump to AUTOEXEC.BIN!!
Open file for write : ROM1.BIN
File close.
Write done.
Open file for write : ROM1.MD5
File close.
Write done.

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/qemu-5d4.png)

Any volunteers to try the following?
- LED blinking (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17848.msg172321#msg172321) (already tested)
- display test (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14732.0) (please PM me for a FIR)
- ROM dumper (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16534.0) (please PM me for a FIR)
- jumping to main firmware

And, after getting it to run on 80D:
- running user code alongside main firmware

8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: jrumans on September 30, 2016, 10:47:17 AM
Hey A1ex, I exceeded 5 PMs per hour and can't send right now. The Firmware Jump didn't appear to do anything, which I imagine is intentional.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 30, 2016, 12:34:59 PM
FYI, the display test went like this:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-disperr.jpg) (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/qemu-5d4-disperr.png)

Second picture is my attempt to understand what happened and reproduce the error in QEMU.

After the fix:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-works.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: nikfreak on September 30, 2016, 01:24:23 PM
Great progress. Is this your 5D IV?  8)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on September 30, 2016, 02:08:31 PM
Quote
Artist: Jeff Rumans

;)

Some low-level details:

At first I've noticed the display uses different registers, and that resolution changed to 900x600 (from 720x480) but I've assumed the rest of the code is similar to 80D (and all other D6 cameras).

Code: [Select]
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018228] <- 0x310000  : BMP VRAM
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018200] <- 0x2580384 : Display resolution
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018230] <- 0x2580384 : Display resolution

The 80D requires the display buffer address to be shifted by 8, so I've assumed the 5D4 does the same. With this assumption, everything looked fine in QEMU; I couldn't get Canon's error screens, but I assumed they were not present in the firmware update.
I've also assumed the image had 8 bits per pixel and used a color palette (just like 80D).

Now, why does the first screenshot look like a broken error message?

First hint: that error message (a hardcoded image in ROM, copied to RAM) must be nearby.
Second hint: from the number of garbage lines and the horizontal shift, we can find out the position of the error message, and cross-check it with the values written by Canon code to BMP VRAM registers.

ML was setting the buffer to  0x44000000. Shifted by 8, it ended up as 0x440000.

Canon code could set the display buffer to either 0x310000 (Loading), 0x3B0000 (Not found) or 0x450000 (Error). The error screen from the first image must be at 0x450000. The camera started to display a few lines of garbage (from 0x440000 to 0x450000), then continued with the error image.

How many lines of garbage? floor(0x10000/900) = 72. Since the division is not exact, the image was also shifted by 0x10000 - 900*72 = 736 pixels.

Counting the pixels on the first screenshot gives about 73 lines of garbage and about 500 pixels of horizontal shift. The difference is pretty large in the horizontal direction.

Looking in QEMU log, near the display resolution there is a register that looks close to horizontal resolution:
Code: [Select]
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018228] <- 0x310000  : BMP VRAM
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD201822C] <- 0x3A0     : ???
[DIGIC6]   at 0x00104B68     [0xD2018230] <- 0x2580384 : Display resolution

0x3A0 = 928, so that might be the BMP pitch. That is, the image in memory is a bit larger than the one actually displayed. Let's check the math: floor(0x10000/928) = 70, 0x10000 - 928*70 = 576. A little closer, right?

Turns out, this value was right :)

By doing this math, I had only one failed attempt, and that attempt was actually showing exactly what I had to change (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/c1ed31fe886737dc72a8197a142cabd1da18009f).

(I now wonder why GregoryOfManhattan said the display test did not work at all a few weeks ago - from the current results, it should have at least turned on the backlight, and maybe also displayed some garbage)

The Firmware Jump didn't appear to do anything, which I imagine is intentional.

This one is not exactly good news, but I'll keep trying.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: g3gg0 on September 30, 2016, 06:46:01 PM
cool progress :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on October 04, 2016, 10:03:02 AM
Please find the ROM dumper: DUMP_5D4.FIR (http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/DUMP_5D4.FIR) (confirmed by jrumans)

You will need a small SD card.

If it locks up or if you get incorrect MD5, try formatting the first 256MB from the card as FAT12, and leave the rest as unpartitioned space.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: wicq on October 09, 2016, 07:47:23 PM
Does this mean ML Team is working on the 5D mark iv?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 09, 2016, 07:53:05 PM
No, posts are generated by an AI developed by linguistic and cs departments at Universiteit van Amsterdam.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Greg on October 09, 2016, 08:05:37 PM
What when AI switch to Sony?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 09, 2016, 08:14:04 PM
One of the premises to make the AI more human-like is making illogical decisions part of the scheme. It will therefore not switch to Sony or RED.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: wicq on October 09, 2016, 09:57:19 PM
Does this mean ML Team is working on the 5D mark iv?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Oswald on October 09, 2016, 10:38:06 PM
Does this mean ML Team is working on the 5D mark iv?
It means just only that Microsoft Tay AI is shitposting to the forum.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: axelcine on October 09, 2016, 10:45:01 PM
@wicq: The 5D4 is being investigated - the same as 760D, 80D and 7DII, so a lot of people are working in their spare time testing and reverse engineering the cams. It is tedious work, like collecting stamps. If you really want to understand the job, these magnificent guys are doing, then read the 5D3-story here. Post by post. Victories, failures, retests, corrections... it is a tale of courage, stubbornness, willingness to go far beyond the call of duty - as if there ever was such one. You could base a Pulitzer-prizewinning novel on these pages:
June 14, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1006.0
September 7, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2602.msg10621#msg10621
March 10, 2015:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14704.0
Read "The Machine" by Tracy Kidder. That one also won the Pulitzer Prize. That book will give you some idea of what A1ex and his peers are really doing.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: wicq on October 09, 2016, 11:05:49 PM
Thanks axelcine  :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ddelreal on October 09, 2016, 11:44:42 PM
Quote from: axelcine
@wicq: The 5D4 is being investigated - the same as 760D, 80D and 7DII, so a lot of people are working in their spare time testing and reverse engineering the cams. It is tedious work, like collecting stamps. If you really want to understand the job, these magnificent guys are doing, then read the 5D3-story here. Post by post. Victories, failures, retests, corrections... it is a tale of courage, stubbornness, willingness to go far beyond the call of duty - as if there ever was such one. You could base a Pulitzer-prizewinning novel on these pages:
June 14, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1006.0
September 7, 2012:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2602.msg10621#msg10621
March 10, 2015:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14704.0
Read "The Machine" by Tracy Kidder. That one also won the Pulitzer Prize. That book will give you some idea of what A1ex and his peers are really doing.

Well said axelcine, well said.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: olofen on October 10, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
I am a DEVOTED user of Magic Lantern on my mkII....
Also being an artist this is my way to be able to get all what I need for my work not being able to pay a lot for my equipment
If it is possible to make the mkIV shine as well in its context I will be the first to honor this fantastic bunch of guys working in the dark for people like me
THANKS AGAIN ALL OF YOU  :D
olof thiel
photographer
stockholm
sweden
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on October 10, 2016, 12:11:33 PM
After the fix:

(http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/5D4/5d4-works.jpg)

8)
Awesomely cool!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 11, 2016, 08:17:19 PM

Be sure to catch how much better Canon colors look and better yet the 5D4's Shadows bodes well against A7R II but not so much when it comes to Highlights...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on October 11, 2016, 08:22:16 PM
Be sure to catch how much better Canon colors look and better yet the 5D4's Shadows bodes well against A7R II but not so much when it comes to Highlights...
You mean totally worse in dynamic range..? But colors and sharpness is a winner.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 05:40:43 AM

Be sure to catch how much better Canon colors look and better yet the 5D4's Shadows bodes well against A7R II but not so much when it comes to Highlights...


@DeafEyeJedi

I prefer the girl in the video over 5d IV and Sony. Sorry, she's so cinematic! :)

A question to you, you can go to PM if you want: have yo seen a good comparation between A7 ii S (the best Sony for video. The crop factor in the 5d IV it's a big problem for my movies, I must buy new lenses. Except if king A1ex get 1:1 from the sensor... ;)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 12, 2016, 06:15:03 AM
Except if king A1ex get 1:1 from the sensor... ;)
It's already 1:1 from the sensor.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 06:35:39 AM
It's already 1:1 from the sensor.

5d4 sensor is  5760x3840 pixels
That is 1:1 or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 12, 2016, 06:58:18 AM
So you want 1:1 from the WHOLE sensor. Good luck with your dreams :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 07:27:41 AM
near 4k, without crop factor, DR 12, Raw 10 bits... it's more than enough for me.
THat's why maybe I should get a Sony Alpha, even, with that pinky colors.
I love Canon skin tone.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 12, 2016, 09:37:32 AM
So why not 1D than?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on October 12, 2016, 04:58:58 PM
In my country the cameras are very expensive. I can only.buy one each time.

This conversación is out off topic. Send me a PM if you want. Or a 1D if you are american boy ;)

Thank you.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on October 13, 2016, 11:54:15 AM
Sorry I don't troll you. I'm in same frustration. No, it's not offtopic. It's all about MKIV - because it not looks as attractive upgrade for video work from MKIII even if ML will be ported on it. Due to many reasons: huge crop in 4K, rolling shutter, unsufficient write speed for 4K in RAW and so on...
Title: Recovery tool: display test works on 5D4!
Post by: erek on October 14, 2016, 03:43:11 PM
Recovery tool: display test works on 5D4!

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/c1ed31fe886737dc72a8197a142cabd1da18009f?at=unified#chg-src/disp_direct.c
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on October 14, 2016, 04:34:48 PM
Interesting views from Canon USA, in HDSLR Shooter interview:
https://vimeo.com/186517570
Some talk about cards too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: chris_overseas on October 20, 2016, 10:26:17 PM
Interesting article talking about the use of dual pixel RAW for AF Microadjustment finetuning in an upcoming version of FoCal:

https://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2016/09/bringing-dual-pixel-raw-to-reikan-focal/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: djkraq on October 21, 2016, 07:47:19 AM
Thats not accurate.  I use a SanDisk Extreme Pro 512GB SDXC UHS-I Card (SDSDXPA-512G-G46) in mine for 4k and it works perfectly.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 21, 2016, 07:54:49 AM
Not sure which post you are replying to. I think it may be
unsufficient write speed for 4K in RAW

And he is right about this. You are not recording RAW ...
RAW in 4k (native DCI 4k):
4096 x 2160 x 14 x 25 / 8 = 387072000 Byte/s = 369 MiByte/s
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: djkraq on October 21, 2016, 07:57:23 AM
Sorry I didn't clarify.  In the video the Canon rep said that you can only use a very, very specific card to record 4k.  He is wrong about that.  I wonder if ML can open up to export 4k through HDMI?  I say that because through my research, the HDMI tech used is capable of handling 4k. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: DeafEyeJedi on October 21, 2016, 08:43:13 AM
...through my research, the HDMI tech used is capable of handling 4k.

Really?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on October 21, 2016, 09:04:53 AM
And no Canon DSLR uses 24p HDMI output ...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: djkraq on October 21, 2016, 09:24:09 AM
I saw that it was 1.4 a long time ago, but I guess they actually went with 1.3.  Sorry about the misinformation.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on October 21, 2016, 02:50:24 PM
It is a HDMI v1.3 - but this supports theoretically up to 1440p (2560×1440) maybe there is a possibility for more than 1080p….
Because of the CF Card Speed for me is a 10 or 12 bit Video Mode more interesting  :D

First of all: these incredible guys have to hack the mark iv.

-> If you need some testers: me and my mark iv are ready
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on October 21, 2016, 04:55:16 PM
Does anyone know, or could someone please test, can you record 1080 to external recorder while simultaneously recording 4K internally?
 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on October 21, 2016, 08:15:19 PM
Sorry  i can't. I don't have the right hdmi cable and no recorder either...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: LebedevRI on October 25, 2016, 09:15:09 PM
@Simonwb
Thank you for the samples!
Base support has been added into darktable: https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/commit/4c61a0b8725f34eb73d7d88828f4c1712e661ab9
If you want, you could take the same per-iso (please do enable extended iso range for this in camera :) ) set for mRaw and sRaw, and then i could add support for these modes too.

As for DualIso, at least for now, in darktable the base subimage is used, and any other sub-images are silently dropped.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Simonwb on October 26, 2016, 08:57:12 AM
@LebedevRI

I'm glad the samples were helpful.

Unfortunately, I can't shoot anything more for a few weeks as I'm away from home for work, but can come back to this mid-November?  I'll then have to ask you to explain more plainly what you want, or go back to A1ex's original request, because I don't know some of your terminology.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on October 29, 2016, 06:20:12 PM
Just saw this on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQI3-xCk_m8hWMYQwT05GQ
Log Neutral on the 5D Mark IV. Looks promising.
The video links to this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.0

Shouldn’t there be a 5D mark IV sticky thread in the Camera specific discussion? Starting with detailed specs of the camera? Current post was started before the 5D4 came out with rumored specs. May be a good idea to start a fresh camera specific thread?

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on October 30, 2016, 04:31:10 AM
Quote
Shouldn’t there be a 5D mark IV sticky thread in the Camera specific discussion? Starting with detailed specs of the camera? Current post was started before the 5D4 came out with rumored specs. May be a good idea to start a fresh camera specific thread?
Nope.
You and I will be sitting back, hoping and waiting for that thread to opened by people who can confirm that ML will work on 5D Mark IV (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1006.0).
Who knows, that might happen next week, 2018, never.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: OlRivrRat on October 31, 2016, 06:02:22 PM
                 @Walter

"Not sure which post you are replying to. I think it may be"

   So, Just which post might this have been a reply to ~
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: dfort on November 01, 2016, 06:48:54 AM
Just saw this on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQI3-xCk_m8hWMYQwT05GQ
Log Neutral on the 5D Mark IV. Looks promising.
The video links to this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.0

Cool. Looks like the Reverse Engineering Picture Styles (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.0) topic is getting some press.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on November 01, 2016, 11:20:53 AM
The mjpeg file format for video on the 5D mark IV makes HUGE files. Really bad choice. Correct me if I'm wrong but if magic lantern manages to hack the 5D4, it would potentially enable raw recording but won't be able to enable recording in mp4 H265 for example? This could only be implementend by Canon, is that correct?
 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: bouncyball on November 01, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
MJPEG on Canon _is_not_a_bad_choice_ at all. It's just 8 bit and 4.2.0 and that is a bit dealbreaker not the size (bitrate 500mbit if I remember correctly). Raw data would be even bigger :P.

And I'm sure recording 4K raw will never be possible longer than available RAM allows (several secs I guess) on 5dm4 with ML.

Regards
bb

P.S. Yes you are right about H265.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ph2007 on November 01, 2016, 04:52:25 PM
And I'm sure recording 4K raw will never be possible longer than available RAM allows (several secs I guess) on 5dm4 with ML.

1080 60/120fps raw I am darn happy with it, otherwise i would stay on a7s or fs5 haha
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on November 01, 2016, 05:26:45 PM
4K mjpeg is in 4:2:2 on 5d mark iv ;)

I did read the information about fps override. But i'm not shure about that: could there be a posibility to record full hd (1080p) with more than 60fps in h.264 with ml?

Ps: [email protected] in raw....not a big hope for that. Depending on buffer size some seconds are possible. [email protected] in raw-> no way :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on November 02, 2016, 10:35:45 AM
It's just 8 bit and 4.2.0

its 422 in 4K
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on November 02, 2016, 10:44:11 AM
I don't mind having huge files if they provide me with flexibility in post-production but Canon's 4K MJPEG don't.
As anyone tried the Log Neutral (link above) on the 5D4? If so, would you be OK to share some of that footage?
Having no peaking for me is just impossible, I hope ML will bring it to the 5D4.




Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on November 02, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
Quote
Having no peaking for me is just impossible, I hope ML will bring it to the 5D4.

What do you mean?

I made some tests with picture styles (not Neutral, i used my own) you'll get more details in dark or bright parts.
But it's not the same like raw Video :-P
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on November 02, 2016, 01:40:03 PM
I'm talking about the lack of focus peaking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_peaking).
As far as I know the 5D4 doesn't have any.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on November 02, 2016, 01:45:05 PM
but Canon's 4K MJPEG don't.

im also wondering what you mean...have you tried to grade mjpeg and you find results same as h264? i dont have the camera yet but some footage i see with eoshd log looks 'different' from usual canon's compressed files
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJDU4LAu194
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: bouncyball on November 02, 2016, 03:43:34 PM
@ noipego, myown

4.2.2. Yeah it's even better now :) thanx for correction.

bb
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on November 02, 2016, 07:14:43 PM
@noipego
I personnaly don't mind having huge files if they provide me with flexibility in post-production: RAW or LOG.
Canon's 4K MJPEG is heavy and a lot more difficult to grade than raw or Log.
MP4 H264 or H265 wouldn't be that much different to MJPEG to grade but at least much lighter.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: djkraq on November 03, 2016, 06:09:41 AM
Interesting.  I am using a Komputerbay 1066x 256GB card and can record 1080p120 for over 6 minutes to CF Card on my 1DX Mark II (although Canon says only the CFast Card can do that).  Maybe the 5D Mark IV is just limited by the buffer?  IDK. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on November 03, 2016, 06:26:45 AM
There's another thread for the processor being hacked. It's about the same ML.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on November 03, 2016, 08:08:38 AM
Quote
Interesting.  I am using a Komputerbay 1066x 256GB card and can record 1080p120 for over 6 minutes to CF Card on my 1DX Mark II (although Canon says only the CFast Card can do that).  Maybe the 5D Mark IV is just limited by the buffer?  IDK.

Interessting  :) How we can readout the buffer size of the mark iv without ML? And whats the buffer size of your 1dx?
I'm also not sure if the mark iv is able to process 120 full hd frames per second because there is only a single processor.
And not sure either if the fps override is doing the 120 frames in 1080p.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Prokopios on November 28, 2016, 10:17:55 AM
 Could it not be possible to write RAW to an external writer, eg. Pix-E5, for the 5D IV?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: tron on November 30, 2016, 11:56:18 AM
Wishing for a 5DIV port in a couple of years (not trolling, If possible, if there is time, programmers, etc).

I am thinking of Dual ISO feature since there are still shadows issues believe it or not (I am on my 2nd 5D4 and the replacement body has equal color banding with the 1st when lifting shadows, see canonrumors forum for more info). My 5D3 with ML is better than 5D4 on this!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on November 30, 2016, 12:11:11 PM
Have some relevant samples to show the repeatability of the pattern, and whether it can be corrected with changing ISO?

A few ISO 100/1600 brackets should do the trick.

BTW, the latest Eeko (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.msg175656#msg175656) discovery is very useful for digic 6 ports: it's a simplified DryOS core that runs Thumb-2 instructions (probably similar architecture), all its memories are writable, it's available on all Digic 5 models, so it can serve as a playground for testing Thumb-2 stuff and understanding other low-level behaviors.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: tron on November 30, 2016, 01:57:47 PM
Alex if you were referring to my post I can try. I just know that iso 50 improves slightly the situation.

Actually I have made some experiments with higher iso (400) but I tried to not burn the highlights so DR was less (of course). The banding was evident. But I believe to try to simulate a higher iso in the ML way I just have to increase ISO (say to 1600) and keep shutter and aperture constant. Highlights will be be burnt but we will get some info for the shadows and higher iso.

Please correct me if I am wrong about that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: tron on December 01, 2016, 02:24:36 AM
Color banding disappears when increasing iso and keeping other parameters the same since there is less underexposure of the shadows. But since this causes a more correct exposure for the shadows (overexposing the rest of the picture) I guess it would happen like that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: garry23 on December 01, 2016, 07:29:46 AM
@tron

If you haven't read this, I thought you might find it of value : http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/iso/

Cheers

Garry
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: JADURCA on December 01, 2016, 06:16:28 PM
@tron

Read this too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding

Try to add a little bit of noise to the footage, render it then verify. Look for a rasonable low noise that is almost not detectable and mask the banding. Also, as @a1ex suggest, increase the ISO when filming solid natural colors like a blue sky or sunset, , so a little bit of noise is naturally added by the internal digital circuits and natural behavior of high ISOs.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: tron on December 02, 2016, 03:53:24 PM
I may be wrong of course but it does not look like posterization and certainly does not look like just chroma noise.

Also it is ALWAYS in parallel to the longest side no matter what I shoot. Since I do not shoot video I translate filming to shooting.

I would rather not increase ISO since it lowers Dynamic range. Experiments made with high iso and trying to recover shadows while keeping highlights from burning gave poor results. I have to keep exposure lower to save highlights (less DR) so shadows are even worse (and there was banding).

ISO 50 behaved better (although it is a digital iso, the way camera handles it saves us from quite a processing). EDIt: It betters 5D3 in shadow lifting too that's why I tried it with 5D4.

To tell the truth some shadows have to be kept as shadows to keep a photo natural so this can be controllable in some cases. But in really HDR demanding scenes (like an open window for example) the solution remains 5D3 + ML (or the classical bracketting and combining  >:( )
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on December 17, 2016, 01:35:45 PM
hey ML ppl...im debating with myself if i should get the 5d4. despite the lack of serious video features, the camera now has good DR and the possibility of raw recording in the future. also wifi, dpaf and 60fps at 1080p are nice to have too.
Since i haven't tested myself the 1080p image quality of the camera , i'd like to ask here what ppl -who got 5d4- think of that...both mk3&4 have AA filter but some say 5d4 gives more detail, not the soft h264 file of the 5d3.
cheers
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: MitchLally on December 17, 2016, 03:31:07 PM
@noipego its very similar looking to the 6D – more moire than the Mark III – in my eyes the image qual of h264 is more or less identical. Hardly worthy of an upgrade considering what is currently on offer with ML + 5D3. 4K image is noisy as hell.

Oh and if you're waiting for ML on 5D4 – its a $3500 gamble at this point as you can't predict 5D4 will run raw recording / ML in foreseeable future / ML at all.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Deny on December 18, 2016, 03:04:28 AM
@noipego despite what other people say I'm getting good results with the 5D4 4k (downscaling to 1080p), and DPAF with touch focus is to die for. WIFI IMHO is good for stills, if you want to monitor video you're better off with the DSLR Controller app for Android, which connects through the USB cable.

Regarding 1080p quality, I feel 4k downscaled to 1080p looks better (more detail) than 1080p on-camera, that's using the exact same settings and comparing them side by side after adjusting 4k->1080p. Not a huge deal, could be the AA filter, I don't know, but I'd rather use the best IQ I can get in my footage. The downside is, of course, the huge files @4k, don't even think about shooting 4k with the 5D4 without at least a 256GB sdcard or CF card, 95MB/s minimum (Sandisk Extreme Pro SDXC 95MB/s works fine) so the camera itself will format it using ExFat and therefore won't split takes into multiple 4GB files.

Regarding noise, I wouldn't say 4k is "noisy as hell" given proper lighting, but it's certainly noisier than 1080p. The fact that even then I've chosen to shoot 4k gives away my opinion about the compromises involved in that choice.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on December 18, 2016, 10:48:05 AM
thx for [email protected] im using dslr contr. with gimbal so i change camera settings on the fly. I've seen in couple reviews that wifi monitoring has similar delay in image display as the dslr contr....but i maybe wrong
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on January 03, 2017, 03:25:37 PM
Indeed Sandisk Extreme PRO 64GB and 128GB classe 10 95MB/S sdxc sdhc sd  uhs-I U3 work fine. Was able to shoot non stop 30 minutes of footage in 4K on the 128GB one.  Wouldn't say 4K is "noisy as hell" either. I've only noticed noise shooting at the end of the day with higher ISO. During the day with low ISO, I cannot notice any noise. Touch AF on the screen is amazing. You can also do touch AF on a windows 10 tablet using EOS utility. Connecting the 5D4 to the usb port of my tablet opens EOS utility. Select on the screen where you want it to focus, done. Magnification X5 and X10 works and is great, you can also start the recording touching the screen.Despite USB 3 potential limitations, the lag is not strong. Unless you're shooting sports events, I find it totally usable. Of course a 12 or 13 inch tablet is too big to be used as a field monitor if you're shooting on your own in the streets but useful on location or in a studio. The tablet I have has a USB C Thunderbolt 3 port as well meaning you can recharge your tablet with an external battery while you are using it. Soon, on Windows phones running Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processors (and others) one will be able to install any windows deskop app: http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm
This means you could most likely have EOS utility on a windows phone and use it as a field monitor with touch AF bringing a very powerful feature field monitors do not have. I'm not a Windows fan but it could be a pretty cool feature on a phone.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on January 04, 2017, 04:46:52 AM
You can also do touch AF on a windows 10 tablet using EOS utility.
Need to say that EOS utility on my Microsoft Surface 3(4Gb) is extremely laggy,
what makes it unusable as field monitor with touch AF.
And I'm very sceptic about it would work with acceptable performance on Snapdragon 835.
What tablet do you use in your experiments?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on January 04, 2017, 06:36:11 AM
I would say canon improved the 1080p h.264 a bit on the 5d4. There is more detail then the 5d3 in h.264. 5d3 + ml 1080 is still better as far as color. Obviously. I'm sure the 5D 4 will have its ML some day. Probably going to be a lot more complex but look at how stable the 5d3 is now compared to when the first beta was released.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on January 04, 2017, 11:12:15 AM
@mothaibaphoto I'm using an Acer switch alpha 12 (2.3-GHz Intel Core i5-6200U CPU, 8GB of RAM, SSD 256). Maybe the specs help? You're right the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processors may not be powerful enough for a fluid experience. Hard to say until anyone has tried it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on January 06, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
@Maximo Thanks. Core i5 has more power than Atom, for sure.
And just 300g heavier :)
By the way, EOS utility not the only software for this kind of job.
I will try qDslrDashboard, for example, next time.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on January 13, 2017, 10:13:11 AM
Are there any plans to write an ML app (ios, android, win) for remote control via wi-fi and regular tethering?

The current app Canon connect 2.0 is clumsy for 5D4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: KelvinK on January 13, 2017, 11:07:56 AM
There's an app for 6D for remote control. DSLR Controller. Never tried it tho.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on January 13, 2017, 11:09:17 AM
I think I know it. But I mean an own ML app (again open source).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: wcmary on January 19, 2017, 05:06:59 PM
Hi there!
I searched, but perhaps wasn't wasn't searching for the right string...  Is there anyone actively working on ML for the 5d Mark IV?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on January 19, 2017, 05:22:24 PM
If a couple of evenings every few weeks counts as "actively", then yes.

However, currently none of the core developers has a DIGIC 6 camera and I didn't feel the urge to upgrade yet. Lots of interesting things are left to discover, or were discovered but not yet put to good use, on previous models.

So, for now, I'm just tinkering with the firmware in QEMU (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/branch/qemu). Not just on 5D4, but also on other D6 models, including PowerShots, and on secondary cores from DIGIC 5. In particular, the Eeko (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.msg175656#msg175656) CPU core allows anyone with a DIGIC 5 camera to experiment with Thumb code.

Basically, any commit you see regarding a DIGIC 6 or newer model is relevant, to some extent, for all the others, as they are quite similar inside.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: RenatoPhoto on January 19, 2017, 07:17:51 PM
5DIV does seem to be a beast!  But if someday the 5DS is cracked by A1lex then I would buy one as a true replacement for my aging 5D3.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: budafilms on January 20, 2017, 11:07:34 PM
I have a dream: a module to make Mpeg - or directly DNG, Jpg, into the cameras.
Why buy a 5d4 or Sony Alpha? :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: olofen on January 23, 2017, 11:46:32 AM
Maybe there is a way to combine the Dual Pixel situation into one entity getting 6K....?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on January 24, 2017, 09:45:35 PM
Google's recent research on image compression may (or may not) be available one day:
https://www.blog.google/products/google-plus/saving-you-bandwidth-through-machine-learning/
If so wondering if it could it bring compression to 4k mjpeg or 4k dng?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: zerocool22 on January 24, 2017, 11:36:35 PM
Can't we buy a 5D IV for the developers. I mean there are thousands of ML users out there, even if we all just chip in 1$. We could get one for them. And hopefully they can crack it. As for many users like myself I dont see the need to upgrade without magic lantern RAW on it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: olofen on January 25, 2017, 11:43:40 PM
I am willing to chip in!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: olofen on January 25, 2017, 11:54:47 PM
Today everybody is trying to extend the dynamic range for film. You took the first step with the HDR setup. Canon copied you in Mk IV. Why not copy yourself again with bisecting the fps another round down to 15 fps!? Or/and try a different road and find a new solution extending the wonderful (!?) software inside Mk IV to new Wuthering heights by way of The Magic Lantern
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on January 26, 2017, 01:12:03 AM
Quote
I mean there are thousands of ML users out there, even if we all just chip in 1$. We could get one for them. And hopefully they can crack it.
@zerocool22 Yes we could...... and I would totally chip in but... But what the developers need most is more developers testers, and more time. Remember they are not getting paid for the COUNTLESS hours it takes to code, time not spent with family and friends, time spent at a desk.
I for one can barely grasp even the simplest forms of HTML. In time they will get to the IV and getting them one could speed it up. But DEVs gotta eat and sleep too. Imagine the complexity of the 5Divs new touch screen. And then you will have to get a few more 5Divs for others to test since, I doubt there are many that are willing to risk there brand new IV on a port. Give it time and test where and when you can. I'm thinking of attempting to try the emulator. That looks fun and you never know if you might stumble on something.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: tomekk on January 26, 2017, 06:26:11 PM
I'd chip in every month if that would help development keep going :).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on January 28, 2017, 03:44:41 PM
I was thinking the same before but when 5D4 doesn't have 5 axis stabilisation then I believe it's a bit to much to ask for. I'm not a developer so I can't really say, but my indication is that the cam is to close to 5D3 for al the work. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: jrumans on January 29, 2017, 10:01:48 PM
I was thinking the same before but when 5D4 doesn't have 5 axis stabilisation then I believe it's a bit to much to ask for. I'm not a developer so I can't really say, but my indication is that the cam is to close to 5D3 for al the work. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I love my 5d IV, it is a really solid camera. I haven't touched my 5d3 in quite awhile, but use it as a backup when necessary, or for RAW video. Not sure why you would think that a camera without 5 axis stabilization isn't worthy of a ML port  ???

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on January 30, 2017, 01:27:14 AM
I love my 5d IV, it is a really solid camera. I haven't touched my 5d3 in quite awhile, but use it as a backup when necessary, or for RAW video. Not sure why you would think that a camera without 5 axis stabilization isn't worthy of a ML port  ???
Not worthy, but in what purpose? Is it 4K? Will the cam even handle 4K RAW video, the lack of faster cards..? The option of stabilization is one tool that would wow me. Of course not everyone..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: zerocool22 on January 30, 2017, 02:05:53 PM
Well yeah I could care less about inbody stabilization. I already got a lot of grip to do that for me.

But I would love:
- Increase resolution
- Increase details
- Increase dynamic range
- Increase low light capabilities
- Increase slow motion capabilities
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on January 30, 2017, 02:12:07 PM
Well there you go!  You already have it with 5D4 ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Rideck on January 30, 2017, 05:13:04 PM
Hi there, I'am new to the Forum and I love the Idea from zerocool22! I would love to see Magic Lantern coming for the Mk IV and of course I would give some money as well.
 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: macane on January 31, 2017, 09:22:34 AM
Raw 4K on 5D4-ML might require incredible faster media to record. So, as a 5D4 shooter, I would say a camera hack with no crop factor and non stupid MJPEG should be ideal for me. CHEERS!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: olofen on February 06, 2017, 11:24:48 AM
I do not think it is possible to record 4K (or 6K...) RAW on the media setup provided by Canon inside Mk IV but with an Atomos or similar EXTERNAL recorder it should be manageable....
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Maximo on February 06, 2017, 01:52:19 PM
4k external recording would have to be hacked by magic lantern team if possible, for now 2K external recording only. Cinema DNG or other RAW compression formats may allow 4K internal recording?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: c4v3man on February 11, 2017, 08:36:00 PM
Looking at the mjpg 4k recording and associated frame grabs, I'm assuming if Magic Lantern is ever ported to this camera, that there's a decent chance of 4k silent photos without any sort of shutter speed limitations? That would be handy for timelapses, although the 1.74x crop certainly limits it's use.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: bgusto on February 12, 2017, 06:12:10 AM
Hi - I recently purchased two Mark IVs. I was excited to shoot 4k, but I'm wondering if I should sell them and downgrade to Mark IIIs so I can use Magic Lantern. Thoughts on ML vs Canon's 4k? (Besides the crop...)

Any progress update on ML for 5d Mark IV?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on February 13, 2017, 12:03:14 AM
Hi - I recently purchased two Mark IVs. I was excited to shoot 4k, but I'm wondering if I should sell them and downgrade to Mark IIIs so I can use Magic Lantern. Thoughts on ML vs Canon's 4k? (Besides the crop...)

Any progress update on ML for 5d Mark IV?

Thanks.
Do you need 4K? If so, the easy of use in shooting what the camera is made to do is not what ML is. ML in for me an option to go further for that kind of options like post- and color grading. Waiting for ML for the IV is not gona happen in near (years? or never will) future..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: clement2 on February 13, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
if you really need professional dslr for 4k video shooting, canon is totally out of the field. it's 4k video looks like 1080p quality. and it's follow the route as predecessor 5d3 when it shot 1080p, the quality looks like 720p in sony.

rather than waiting for ML to support 5d4, it is better to get the sony one as it has already got overexposure zebra, focus peaking, sharper nicer video and much more.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Ilia3101 on February 13, 2017, 02:46:37 PM
@clement2 That's completely wrong, please show me where 5D IV 4k looks like 1080p, I don't think that's true at all. Sony video, yes, its technically better, dynamic range whatever.... but 5D mkIV has far better colour and doesn't have the ugly sony yellow highlights(possibly fixable with difficult to grade slog). Only reason to choose a sony over 5D IV is crop(or price, but then you'd obviously go with a 5D3).
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: bgusto on February 14, 2017, 02:58:54 AM
Do you need 4K? If so, the easy of use in shooting what the camera is made to do is not what ML is. ML in for me an option to go further for that kind of options like post- and color grading. Waiting for ML for the IV is not gona happen in near (years? or never will) future..

The most important things to me are dynamic range and color grading. I also like the 2:35:1 crop on ML. I just want great picture quality.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on February 14, 2017, 11:25:42 PM
The most important things to me are dynamic range and color grading. I also like the 2:35:1 crop on ML. I just want great picture quality.
OT. You get that on both models. The 5D4 has more resolution, but color grading is as you know a better choice going with a 5D3. But expose right, get the colors you like (ambient light or other) and nobody cares if RAW or not. ML is more post processing, do you like that, then 5D3 maybe is the choice..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on February 14, 2017, 11:27:22 PM
I hope ML will manage to hack it sooner than 5D3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Krrish Venkat on February 15, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
Hi,
       New to this forum. Willing to buy mark iv only bcoz of ML. Plz Plz Plz ML shed some light that you are developing ML for mark IV otherwise, it is waste of time and money to buy mark iv and I'll stick with mark iii with ML.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on February 16, 2017, 12:43:34 PM
There is no ML for 5D4 and ML project does not know about schedules, delivery dates.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: bkling on February 18, 2017, 03:46:37 PM
Got to wait..it is not going to be fast I think to port ML onto 5D4. Either way, I already bought it.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: bwinter88 on February 19, 2017, 10:55:40 PM
For those of you unsure about trying the 5D mk3 in the meantime...

I used to be obsessive about resolution and pixels...always wanting to know the next best piece of kit out there with the highest resolution. Then I entered a film festival and watched, on a 20 foot screen, 1st place go to a piece shot on miniDV, beating out RED cameras.

Obviously one size does not fit all but frankly the color depth and quality of the RAW footage delivered by ML on the 5dmk3 is nothing short of stunning. I have been shooting on it for large jobs for more than a few years now. A lot of my jobs involve shooting the motion portion of a photographic campaign and having RAW sequences allows me to match the results of the photographer and retoucher. It rivals even Alexa footage and scales up to 4K beautifully. If you are on the fence, just go for it and try it. 5Dmk3 bodies are too cheap now not to at least give it a go. Just my 2c.

Also, I am not so confident that a useful version of ML for the mk4 will be released anytime soon, if ever. The reason being that existing versions of ML simply hijack the existing readout of the sensor and dump raw data. If 4K without the 1.74x is to be achieved, ML will have to go farther than previous developments have and figure out a completely new way of reading 4K off the sensor full-frame. Someone with more intimate knowledge of the process may be able to correct me.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: blackcannonfilms on February 20, 2017, 02:24:51 PM
if you really need professional dslr for 4k video shooting, canon is totally out of the field. it's 4k video looks like 1080p quality. and it's follow the route as predecessor 5d3 when it shot 1080p, the quality looks like 720p in sony.

rather than waiting for ML to support 5d4, it is better to get the sony one as it has already got overexposure zebra, focus peaking, sharper nicer video and much more.

I mean no disrespect but anyone considering a 5D4 over a Sony should disregard Clement2's comment as his/her statement is in many ways misleading and incorrect. For some reason Sony shooters have an insecurity that pushes them to lurk and pop into Canon discussions so they can boast about how they jumped ship and why we should too -but truth be told there is no one camera that is better than the other, they all have flaws and it really comes down to preference. A camera is only a tool and those who understand the limitations of their tools will know how to work with them to get the most out of it.

I have been shooting on both the A7sii and FS5 for just over a year now. I also picked up the 5D4 to replace my 5D3 when it came out, so speaking from personal experience I can confidently say the 5D4 is a huge improvement on its predecessor and it has many advantages over the Sony cameras many people love. The 4k mjpeg codec is heavy but I have been very pleased with the range it gives in post both for colour and for cropping/resizing as the image is consistently clean and beautiful. It goes without saying, it does not have the perks of raw recording and I definitely miss the other ML functions. Despite that, the 5D4 is tack sharp in 1080p 24/30/60 and 4K modes, and yes the 720 is slightly softer (as I expected). The camera also records 120fps in 720p with a surprisingly high bit rate (150mbps if memory serves me right) that hardly shows any artefacts (if any) and prevents the image from from falling apart in post. Looking at images from the two cameras side by side leads me to believe that the Sony is also recording 120fps at 720p but upscaling it internally to give the impression that it's reaching higher specs than it's competitors. It's also worth noting that the Sony's mentioned here both shoot UHD 4k and not true 4k, which means they're shooting 3840x2160 instead of 496x2160 like the Canon. Now, the biggest downfall to Canon's flagship DSLR is that the 4k recording suffers heavily from rolling shutter (as does the A7sii) and the 5D switches to a 1.74x crop mode to do it, which for many shooters is a disappointment because we've been spoiled by the shallow dof of full frame video for the last few years. However, that being said 1.74x crop is very close to Super 35 and I personally haven't found this to be a negative but a positive because a good dp/videographer will know which lenses to use to achieve the desired results and I actually appreciate gaining that extra reach out of all of my lenses. The only other downfall of the 5D4 is that the only way to achieve an s-log look is with Eoshd's reverse engineered c-log picture profile which I haven't really put through all it's paces but on first glance looks very promising. Apart from those few minor weaknesses, the 5D4 doesn't look like it at first but it is a hell of a camera and a welcomed upgrade to anyone who didn't jump on the Sony bandwagon.

A side note is that for those who prefer an easier workflow, the 5D4 blows the Sony's out of the water from the on set accessories right through post production. To elaborate on that, most Sony lens options are disappointing and have electronic zooms or focus rings which make follow focus rings unusable as the rings change their marks depending on how fast or slowly you move them. So most people will pick up a Metabones or Fotodiox adapter to fit EF or other third party lenses which means you lose AF functionality and depending on the lens, 1 out of 20 times the body doesn't read the lens properly so you need to power down, remove the lens, power back up and this becomes very annoying when you're on a high stress shoot (not to mention the tiny A7sii batteries which barely last around 30-40mins at a time so you need to bring a bunch or have a charging station handy). Also for those of you who haven't yet had the opportunity to shoot on a Sony, every time you format a the card, the file system re-starts the next shot at 0001.mp4, 0002.mp4 all over again, which means you need to batch rename your clips before editing or you'll have a hell of a time reconnecting a project in post if you move it from drive to drive because you run the risk of having duplicate file names in the same bin. The only way the Sony sensors retain their highlights (which I have to say, they do very, very, very well!) is by shooting in s-log 3 which means the base iso jumps up to 1600 and 3200 on the A7sii and the fs5 respectively. This higher iso necessitates the use of ND filters both indoors and outdoors depending on your lighting scenario and ND filters from brand to brand have different hues than the internal variable ND in the FS5 so when you get to the colouring stage of post production, not only is there already a big learning curve for slog3 colouring but if you mix cameras or use ND filters on your lenses, the blacks can vary in hue making colouring even more difficult. Meanwhile the Canon sensor retains all iso options and is clean for video well up until 6400 which I don't think I've ever really shot past on a Sony and been happy with the results, so for low light performance the Canon's are on par (for my needs, at least). The 5D4 also outputs natural colours and skin tones which many users will find familiar and easy to correction/grade, keeping the post prod workflow simple.

All this to say, I'm excited and eager to see if ML ever comes to the 5D4, the team here has done a wonderful job and the feature I miss the most is the magic zoom! Please guys, give us some updates on a nightly!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Pedr on February 22, 2017, 10:47:36 AM
Although I agree with much of  @blackcannonfilms, I have also used both the 5D4 and the Sony A7R2 and have to say, I think the video from the Sony is vastly superior, as are it's video related features. There is much less of a difference in the quality of the stills (though if you are shooting landscapes / outdoors or printing huge you will definitely notice it). However, the sony is a horrible camera in many ways. Its menus are a labyrinth, its buttons inferior to Canon. Using an adapter is often problematic and certainly doesn't increase your feeling of confidence when using the lens. Also, and possibly most importantly, the Sony is a nightmare for dust on the sensor - I rarely had issues with the Canon or my 5D Mk3 before it, but all I have to do is change lenses on the Sony and (if I am outside or in a dusty environment) I can pretty much guarantee I'll have new dust on the sensor. If you shoot a lot outside, this (along with the Sony's much less robust construction and lack of weather sealing) is a deal breaker. Much better quality video spattered with dust spots is not much better quality video. Or worse yet, no video at all is not better quality if as your adapter has failed (as happened to me twice with two different adapters).

The truth is that neither of these cameras are great for shooting video. For stills, I think I would choose the Canon. If I was shooting video entirely in clean studio environment I would choose the Sony. Otherwise I would buy a dedicated video camera. I think the Canon is just a bit of a turkey in this regard and only slightly disappointing in terms of stills (and in six months it will already be showing its age). Maybe the ML guys will be able to work a miracle (again), but I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on March 22, 2017, 10:10:08 AM
http://www.canonrumors.com/c-log-coming-to-eos-5d-mark-iv-confirmed-cr3/
who needs raw now  :P
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on March 22, 2017, 01:44:32 PM
"There has been another suggestion that Canon has been actively looking at ways to “improve” the 4K video capture crop on the EOS 5D Mark IV"
That would be nice too.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: andy kh on March 22, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
Mjpeg or h264 wil never b as good as raw no matter it gets c-log or whatever log
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on March 22, 2017, 04:25:03 PM
"We’re now asking sources if the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II will see a similar firmware update..." - WTF???
Is that even possible that 5D outperforms 1Dx in video?
If that really happens, I promise you, Canon, I will break that sacred oath myself :)
And yes, in-camera Log is good, but not substitute for raw.
Finally, i was waiting for something like that - Canon need to improve it's DSLR video to make GH5 less attractive.
It looks like they have a big room for that - 4K thru HDMI, Log...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on March 23, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
Is that even possible that 5D outperforms 1Dx in video?

oh don't worry mk3 outperforms both :)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: SiSS on March 28, 2017, 08:15:02 PM
Crop Factor rumors continue from the favorite rumorsite (http://www.canonrumors.com/crop-factor-change-for-4k-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-included-in-coming-update-more/)

CROP FACTOR CHANGE FOR 4K ON CANON EOS 5D MARK IV INCLUDED IN COMING UPDATE & MORE

We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:

All video output will still be 8-bit.
Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.
Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.

Both modes are accurately down-sampled to their final resolutions.
Existing frame rates will remain the same.
The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor.

There will also be new full-sensor 3K modes added including 60fps and HDR 24fps.
Both will use a line-alternating sampling method, so quality will be inferior to the improved 4K format (but better than the existing FullHD 1080p format.)
It is unclear whether the file resolution in the final firmware will be the full 3360 x 1890 format or down-sampled to 3072 x 1728.

FullHD 1080p will also use this 3K full-sensor mode with down-sampling for a noticeable improvement in perceived resolution.
FullHD 1080p will also receive a modest frame rate boost to 72/75fps.

The EOS 5D Mark IV will gain the XF-AFC file format at 120Mbps (4:2:0) and 200Mbps (4:2:2). Both formats should require low enough data rates to accommodate UHS-I U3 type SD Cards.

Reports relating to a possible service job for the 5D Mark IV are the result of the heat sinks on current units not performing well in some environments when used with the newer firmware. This is because of the increased processing load from the enlarged video sampling area. Newer units will ship with an improved heat sink while existing 5D Mark IV units can be retrofitted. Pricing is unconfirmed for that servicing.
The newer firmware will still work in non-serviced cameras, but this may result in premature temperature warnings.

More to come… (http://www.canonrumors.com/crop-factor-change-for-4k-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-included-in-coming-update-more/)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: user0597 on March 29, 2017, 09:42:14 AM
It's actually something you'd want. Doesn't sound like Canon of recent.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: limey on March 31, 2017, 01:41:15 PM

I have been shooting on both the A7sii and FS5 for just over a year now. I also picked up the 5D4 to replace my 5D3 when it came out, so speaking from personal experience I can confidently say the 5D4 is a huge improvement on its predecessor and it has many advantages over the Sony cameras many people love. The 4k mjpeg codec is heavy but I have been very pleased with the range it gives in post both for colour and for cropping/resizing as the image is consistently clean and beautiful. It goes without saying, it does not have the perks of raw recording and I definitely miss the other ML functions. Despite that, the 5D4 is tack sharp in 1080p 24/30/60 and 4K modes, and yes the 720 is slightly softer (as I expected). The camera also records 120fps in 720p with a surprisingly high bit rate (150mbps if memory serves me right) that hardly shows any artefacts (if any) and prevents the image from from falling apart in post. Looking at images from the two cameras side by side leads me to believe that the Sony is also recording 120fps at 720p but upscaling it internally to give the impression that it's reaching higher specs than it's competitors. It's also worth noting that the Sony's mentioned here both shoot UHD 4k and not true 4k, which means they're shooting 3840x2160 instead of 496x2160 like the Canon. Now, the biggest downfall to Canon's flagship DSLR is that the 4k recording suffers heavily from rolling shutter (as does the A7sii) and the 5D switches to a 1.74x crop mode to do it, which for many shooters is a disappointment because we've been spoiled by the shallow dof of full frame video for the last few years. However, that being said 1.74x crop is very close to Super 35 and I personally haven't found this to be a negative but a positive because a good dp/videographer will know which lenses to use to achieve the desired results and I actually appreciate gaining that extra reach out of all of my lenses. The only other downfall of the 5D4 is that the only way to achieve an s-log look is with Eoshd's reverse engineered c-log picture profile which I haven't really put through all it's paces but on first glance looks very promising. Apart from those few minor weaknesses, the 5D4 doesn't look like it at first but it is a hell of a camera and a welcomed upgrade to anyone who didn't jump on the Sony bandwagon.

A side note is that for those who prefer an easier workflow, the 5D4 blows the Sony's out of the water from the on set accessories right through post production. To elaborate on that, most Sony lens options are disappointing and have electronic zooms or focus rings which make follow focus rings unusable as the rings change their marks depending on how fast or slowly you move them. So most people will pick up a Metabones or Fotodiox adapter to fit EF or other third party lenses which means you lose AF functionality and depending on the lens, 1 out of 20 times the body doesn't read the lens properly so you need to power down, remove the lens, power back up and this becomes very annoying when you're on a high stress shoot (not to mention the tiny A7sii batteries which barely last around 30-40mins at a time so you need to bring a bunch or have a charging station handy). Also for those of you who haven't yet had the opportunity to shoot on a Sony, every time you format a the card, the file system re-starts the next shot at 0001.mp4, 0002.mp4 all over again, which means you need to batch rename your clips before editing or you'll have a hell of a time reconnecting a project in post if you move it from drive to drive because you run the risk of having duplicate file names in the same bin. The only way the Sony sensors retain their highlights (which I have to say, they do very, very, very well!) is by shooting in s-log 3 which means the base iso jumps up to 1600 and 3200 on the A7sii and the fs5 respectively. This higher iso necessitates the use of ND filters both indoors and outdoors depending on your lighting scenario and ND filters from brand to brand have different hues than the internal variable ND in the FS5 so when you get to the colouring stage of post production, not only is there already a big learning curve for slog3 colouring but if you mix cameras or use ND filters on your lenses, the blacks can vary in hue making colouring even more difficult. Meanwhile the Canon sensor retains all iso options and is clean for video well up until 6400 which I don't think I've ever really shot past on a Sony and been happy with the results, so for low light performance the Canon's are on par (for my needs, at least). The 5D4 also outputs natural colours and skin tones which many users will find familiar and easy to correction/grade, keeping the post prod workflow simple.

All this to say, I'm excited and eager to see if ML ever comes to the 5D4, the team here has done a wonderful job and the feature I miss the most is the magic zoom! Please guys, give us some updates on a nightly!


This sums up my feelings exactly regarding both the Sony a7r2 and a7sii vs now my extensive experience with the 5d4.

The canon is absolutely tack sharp and the tracking is game changing for me. I shot a recent project at 1080p 60fps and was blown away.

My only gripe is the codec for post processing it's just too large for premiere and my Mac Pro chokes on it. However, it's actually pretty decent. Again sharpness is impressive.

The dynamic range, noise levels, and sharpness vs the 5d3 are so much better. From a stills standpoint it's a worthy upgrade.

Eager to see what the new firmware does for the 5d4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: JADURCA on April 20, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
Canon Announces Clog for Mark IV!

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/canon-log
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 20, 2017, 04:11:37 PM
100$ ... And I have to send my camera out!!! No resolution updates ..... Seriously canon....
Not only did a simple hoax ruin there announcement but as a 5div owner I have to pay for this? I hope all new 5Divs cost 100 bucks more cuz that is just not cool.

No thanks I'll just use RAW from ML
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on April 20, 2017, 04:52:43 PM
I prefer to donate 100$ for a Mark IV for A1ex :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on April 20, 2017, 04:54:02 PM
Canon Announces Clog for Mark IV!

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/canon-log
And no wifi GUI improvements :/
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 20, 2017, 05:13:16 PM
100$ not including shipping I assume.
I am just so disappointed. If this was more then just a flat profile upgrade then it would be worth it but seriously.... I can't justify that.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on April 20, 2017, 05:31:02 PM
"be aware that canon log requires manual exposure operation" :o
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 20, 2017, 08:53:41 PM
Maybe I will pay for the upgrade so that I can do a side by side:
5diii 1920x1080 ML 14 bit lossless vs 5div cine style vs 5div c - log
And then most likely come to the conclusion that the upgrade was pointless.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: eduperez on April 20, 2017, 11:30:11 PM
Canon Announces Clog for Mark IV!

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/see-legendary/canon-log


Expect the hordes asking to be done (for free, obviously) using ML...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 21, 2017, 05:20:38 AM
I'd pay for ML not .... C- Log.
All I have to say is thank you ML because I would have abandoned Canon for video a long time ago.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: myown on April 21, 2017, 04:33:03 PM
Quote
Maybe I will pay for the upgrade so that I can do a side by side:
5diii 1920x1080 ML 14 bit lossless vs 5div cine style vs 5div c - log
And then most likely come to the conclusion that the upgrade was pointless.

Did you allready try the "C-Log" from EOSHD?

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/09/now-available-eoshd-picture-profiles-brings-c-log-canon-dslrs-including-1d-x-mark-ii-5d-mark-iv/

It's way cheaper :-)
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 21, 2017, 08:07:47 PM
Hahahaha @myown! I'll have to try that!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mattcraigthomas on April 21, 2017, 10:04:18 PM
This is also worth a look at, if, like me, you're not especially keen on Canon's...implementation.

After researching, I concluded that James Miller's profile is probably better, and comes with LUTs I prefer the look of, although I have to admit I've yet to actually use it.

DELUTS Canon DSLR LOG & LOOKS
https://sellfy.com/p/ul1t/

Using the Atomos promo link will make it a little cheaper:
https://sellfy.com/p/oTvW/-at0mo5d31ut5/?utm_source=atomos.com
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: reddeercity on April 22, 2017, 04:18:30 AM
It more then you think , it just not a lut/picture style it actually a 10bit log curve then compressed to 8bit(which is in all eos camera ) before pic.style is applied , read this post Reverse Engineering Picture Styles  (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16299.msg172770#msg172770)   .
The reason you need to send it in is they have to calibrate the sensor for log (because not all sensor product the same DR, I would think there same amplifies registers to adjust to max the D.R.) , 
You have you use Min.400 ISO and up and in manual mode only plus what really cool is the evf lut preset to view log in rec709 . Basically it's the old 1dc with a  higher crop factor .
Watch the video in the link it explains everything , if I had a 5d4 I wouldn't hesitate for a second to update to log from canon.
and Oh yea you can even get uncompressed log 1080p from the HDMI , thumbs up 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on April 22, 2017, 05:47:28 AM
I agree, the more I read, I learn its not just a look or picture style that is being applied. There is more involved.
And no doubt it will be solid and reliable which all my Canon bodies have been. I will say that Canon cameras are the most reliable pro cams that I have ever used. Because of this forum, I now know how much of a challenge that is.
And yes you could buy another battery powered device to rec the uncompressed feed.... or just use ML on a 5diii 2012 camera and rec uncompressed everything straight to the card in 1920 x 1080. 
Im going to go ahead and speculate that 5Diii RAW uncompressed or 14 bit lossless is still the winner here as far as color and grading.

Wow ... I guess that rumor really got my hopes up ha ha
Dont get me wrong I absolutely love it as a still camera. Best body I have ever used for Photo especially for weddings. But when it comes to video I would trade touch screen wifi gps video AF dual pixel yadda yadda for better crop 4k or more pro codec hands down.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - two weeks out
Post by: [email protected] on May 10, 2017, 07:50:35 PM
Without CFast I feel it's pretty doomed for higher resolution in Raw. Of course they don't like not to benefit from ML super work...

I am quite happy Canon did not switch to CFast cards.  I use teh Samsung Extreme Pro 95 Mbs 256GB carsds in my Canon 5D Mark IV but the also fit in my Sony FDR-AX100 and my laptop Dell 5510 has a very fast SD card reader builtin.  So I love not having to carry an external card reader.  The Mjpeg format already has very low compression if any so I see no reason to shoot to RAW creating an even larger file than it creates now.  The image quality is already as perfect as I have ever seen coming unaltered from the camera.  for most work there is no need to color grade if you used good glass an lighting in the first place. 
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: [email protected] on May 10, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
Maybe I will pay for the upgrade so that I can do a side by side:
5diii 1920x1080 ML 14 bit lossless vs 5div cine style vs 5div c - log
And then most likely come to the conclusion that the upgrade was pointless.

I have both cameras and the Canon 5D Mark IV is light years better than the Mark III.  Things like WIFI, GPS, Timecode, focus following while in Live View, Touch screen display which can be used to pull focus.  Being able to remotely pull focus from my touchscreen laptop in 4K while recording in true 4K.  Just absolutely amazing features.  The upgrade is only pointless if you can't figure out a way to use all these new features.  For me just having Timecode has made syncing audio to my Zoom F4 without the need for Red giants Plural eyes has saved me time and money.

Plus a a photo camera the 5D IV is an absolute beast.  It is so fast and accurate.  Let me stop now before people start thinking I work for Canon.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on May 11, 2017, 06:12:45 AM
 @[email protected]
You have misunderstood me. I was not saying upgrading to 5Div, I was saying upgrading the 5Div to c-log.
I agree, there are a lot of improvements to the 5d iv especially for photo. I know, I own both Cameras and I know how to use them. But I tell you what, I would sacrifice the dual pixel and wifi gps functions for a professional 10bit codec. For some rediculous reason canon is promoting post color grading with c-log on 8bit codecs. I'm sorry this is just silly at this point. And the rolling shutter of the 4k plus the crop is really not good.
What they should have done was:
1 Super 35mm 1.3x crop 4k 10bit  422
2 And full frame 1920 10bit 422 (not h.264 420 8bit)
3 less rolling shutter.
Personally I would trade video autofocus, wifi, touchscreen and GPS for the features mentioned above.
I actually emailed Canon nicely mentioning my concerns and they told me I should take a look at the 11,000 c300 ii
I didn't​ tell them this but I said to myself, no thanks I'll just use 5diii with ML RAW if I want to color grade.
Im not saying the 5Div is bad. All I am saying is, personality​ it let me down. This is not the same 5D that spearheaded the DSLR video revolution.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mothaibaphoto on May 11, 2017, 07:56:45 AM
I actually emailed Canon nicely mentioning my concerns and they told me I should take a look at the 11,000 c300 ii
ROFL  :D
There is also some compromise for 5,000: 1Dx MKII - 1.3x crop 4k 60 FPS, less rolling shutter.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: [email protected] on May 11, 2017, 11:15:31 PM
@[email protected]
You have misunderstood me. I was not saying upgrading to 5Div, I was saying upgrading the 5Div to c-log.
I agree, there are a lot of improvements to the 5d iv especially for photo. I know, I own both Cameras and I know how to use them. But I tell you what, I would sacrifice the dual pixel and wifi gps functions for a professional 10bit codec. For some rediculous reason canon is promoting post color grading with c-log on 8bit codecs. I'm sorry this is just silly at this point. And the rolling shutter of the 4k plus the crop is really not good.
What they should have done was:
1 Super 35mm 1.3x crop 4k 10bit  422
2 And full frame 1920 10bit 422 (not h.264 420 8bit)
3 less rolling shutter.
Personally I would trade video autofocus, wifi, touchscreen and GPS for the features mentioned above.
I actually emailed Canon nicely mentioning my concerns and they told me I should take a look at the 11,000 c300 ii
I didn't​ tell them this but I said to myself, no thanks I'll just use 5diii with ML RAW if I want to color grade.
Im not saying the 5Div is bad. All I am saying is, personality​ it let me down. This is not the same 5D that spearheaded the DSLR video revolution.

I agree with you on 2 and 3.  2 doesn't really affect me much because I always shoot at 4K and if required downsize to 1920 which I believe still give me 422 color sampling.   I have not worked with 10bit video so I don'tr know what I am missing.  I also don't color grade most of my work so also don't have a need for C-log.  The only time I would need something like that is if am shooting with both my Sony FDR-AX100 and Canon 5D4 and need to match colors, which at this point I also seldom do.  Isn't the Sensor in the Canon 5D4 already much bigger than a Super 35 sensor since it has to accommodate 30MP photography? 
Well in any case I hear you and everyone has their own thoughts, but for me.  I am quite ecstatic with the camera.  Upgrading from a Canon 5D Mark II was a huge step up and I will use it for the next 5 - 7 years.  I just don't get that many requests for people actually hiring me to shoot in 4K.  My trick is shooting in 4K and delivering a 1080P product which looks great.  Which I can easily do with this camera.  For my personal stuff (not getting paid for) the 4k stuff is great for friends and family events. 
When I look back at it all I think Canon was the first to bring video to a DSLR and if I remember many photographers thought it was a stupid idea.  But, now it is the norm.  But, If I where to do paid 4K work on a regular basis I would absolutely just go get a Black Magic mini URSA.  The downside is I just couldn't imaging traveling Internationally with it which is why I purchased the 5D4.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: dfort on May 15, 2017, 06:41:33 AM
Not to get too far off topic but looking at the Netflix Production and Post-Production Requirements v2.1 (https://backlothelp.netflix.com/hc/en-us/articles/217237077-Production-and-Post-Production-Requirements-v2-1) it looks like the 5D Mark IV can only be used as a "Secondary Camera" because it doesn't meet their specifications:
Some other 4K cameras that don't meet these specifications include the somewhat affordable Sony FS-5, JVC GY-LS300 and the not so affordable Arri Alexa. That's right, unless you can get a hold of an Arri 65 that has "true" 4K (greater than 4096 x 2160) sensor.

The most affordable camera that would fit the specifications without requiring an external recorder seems to be the new Panasonic GH5. Like the 5D Mark IV, that camera also uses a less than edit friendly codec. Some people may look down on the micro four thirds sensor but considering the crop factor when the 5D Mark IV shoots 4K (1.7x vs. 2.0x mft) there isn't much of a difference as far as depth of field goes.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, just reporting what I found out. I'm prepping for a documentary and would like to get a better chance at being accepted at the various streaming services but it looks like these Internet broadcast standards are evolving much faster than I ever expected.

And hold on, I was at NAB and this is what is coming in time for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics from NHK:

SUPER HI-VISION (8K) 22.2 multichannel sound system (http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/nab2017/NHK_8kTheaterA.pdf)

There were a few 8K cameras on display though I didn't see the one from Canon that they showed at Photokina 2016 (https://www.cinema5d.com/look-canons-crazy-8k-camera-prototype/).


Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: chris_overseas on May 18, 2017, 01:47:59 AM
I took a look at the 1.0.4 firmware and managed to find a few stubs. Not much, but it's a start.

https://bitbucket.org/chris_miller/ml-fork/commits/035db3446e9092bc5b3be89af9d4b378690ad7cc
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: noipego on May 18, 2017, 10:53:27 AM
nice, thx for looking into this Chris!
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on June 20, 2017, 08:04:29 PM
So I was doing some thinking. I apologize if this was covered. If or when the ML makes its way to the 5D IV, I was wondering what would the RAW Video/live view capabilities would even be. 4K would be tricky in RAW since I read the CF card slot are still limited. Not sure if this also applies to the SD card slot.

I, personally would be more interested in the full frame capabilities in [email protected] 24fps

Now we know the resolution of the 5DIII Sensor is 5760 / 3x3 Pixel bin brings us to 1920 right? (maybe I am wrong)
With that same math the 5Div 6720 / 3x3 bin would be 2240. This makes me much more excited if this is possible. With compression, in theory, this should rec just fine to the CF card @ 24fps

However, I read (not sure true) the 5D iv does an 4x4 binning during full frame live view. This would be most disappointing bringing our numbers down to 1680 which sadly sounds like a canon move.
On the flip side, since live view understanding seems to be improving quite nicely thanks to ML maybe... just maybe (wishes don't do dishes) ML can force the 3x3 bin and the 5D IV will have a decent 2k RAW 24fps mode.
Canon, no doubt "could" make this happen no problem especially with the new Canon Cinema RAW LITE on there C200.
IMO canon is super dumb for not having done something like RAW 1920 mode on the Mark IV. However I think ML will most likely be able to take the glory here once again. So we can thank Canon for dropping the innovation ball I guess. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Ilia3101 on June 20, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
As far as I'm aware (simple) 4x4 binning would result in monochrome video :D, so whoever said that is wrong - don't worry, it has 3x3 binning... unless of course they went full Canon and made it 5x5, which is extremely unlikely and would look terrible
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: hjfilmspeed on June 20, 2017, 09:03:59 PM
As far as I'm aware (simple) 4x4 binning would result in monochrome video :D, so whoever said that is wrong - don't worry, it has 3x3 binning... unless of course they went full Canon and made it 5x5, which is extremely unlikely and would look terrible
hahaha 5x5!!!!
4x4 Binning = Monochrome, never new or fully understood the binning process.
3x3 would be a dream on 5d IV. True 2K WHHAAAAA!
4k rolling shutter is quite bad on mark IV so I could care less about that in RAW.

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AlexRo on July 19, 2017, 08:06:24 PM
So what's the situation with the 5D Mk IV?? Can someone answer? Did the ML team hack it or is it stil in "not in priority" mode?
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on July 19, 2017, 08:34:39 PM
Top of page -> Downloads -> Download Nightly Build -> Scroll down to "When will it be ready"
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AlexRo on July 26, 2017, 12:23:49 AM
No, I did not want to know when it will be ready. I asked about the situation with the development of ML for 5d mark iv. Is it being worked on or not.
Sorry for my English.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: D_Odell on July 26, 2017, 01:15:15 AM
No, I did not want to know when it will be ready. I asked about the situation with the development of ML for 5d mark iv. Is it being worked on or not.
Sorry for my English.
Don't wait for it..
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on July 26, 2017, 07:22:26 AM
No, I did not want to know when it will be ready. I asked about the situation with the development of ML for 5d mark iv. Is it being worked on or not.

Answered in
Top of page -> Downloads -> Download Nightly Build -> Scroll down to "When will it be ready"
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: olofen on August 12, 2017, 11:00:33 AM
   Hi,

With the 5D Mark IV Canon have copied Magic Lanterns HDR movie situation but made a rather poor in-camera version.
Why not do a three videos-in-one variant with all those resources there is in the Mark IV camera. A version similar to the original one in Magic Lantern but with a decent fps speed (so people don't look like Charlie Chaplin) and last but not least a better abillity to "see in the dark" - as well as make recordings....
And RAW if possible...

From a video artist mainly working nighttime... :D

....and if possible I wish I could use the full screen of the MK IV viewer for filming i.e. ending in 1920 x 1280 px
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: TrEK on August 23, 2017, 04:29:40 PM
Anybody know if available ML on Canon 5d Mark 4 ???
and ability shooting ML RAW ??
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: andy kh on August 23, 2017, 04:50:50 PM
Anybody know if available ML on Canon 5d Mark 4 ???
and ability shooting ML RAW ??

NO
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: mkporwit on August 31, 2017, 03:57:51 AM
So on a more serious note than the whining for features...

Is there anyone even informally poking at a 5D4? I just got one, and I'm a developer of that certain age that still remembers his C fondly. It just seems like it would be easier to pair up with someone to get going...
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: a1ex on August 31, 2017, 09:02:37 AM
Yes, get the ROM dumper and check out the QEMU branch.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: ricardo huertas hernandez on September 06, 2017, 09:26:50 AM
Hello, I am new here, nobody thinks about the output dng direct video usb 3.0 that could reach at least 360 mbs in sequential with an external ssd controlled with the flashlight and be able to record continuous 4k gross 30 fps.

According to an American commentator last August I commented that it was possible the direct recording ssd in the 5d mark iv, and this way does not seem to be explored as the most feasible and economic (ssd cheap) in the absence of cfast 2.0.

It is necessary to promote this way as a means of giving a definitive impulse to the lantern in all the canon with usb 3.0 and to counter the lack of cfast 2.0, as in the competition with its equivalents.
Thank you.
Title: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on September 06, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
A1ex, as I remember you somewhere shared that from the core developers nobody has it - ergo no development...

Perhaps a little more asking from your side around in your own forum  would speed it up.

1 year after its release - nobody even has began it according to my understanding. I would love to help, but I am a noob compared to you Gods of firmware code.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 06, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
Sorry, unable to decode your request. Rephrase, please.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Audionut on September 07, 2017, 06:14:13 AM
from the core developers nobody has it - ergo no development...

Need hardware + time.

Hardware is easy.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: AOK on September 12, 2017, 02:30:48 PM
Sorry, unable to decode your request. Rephrase, please.

We are beyond 1st year of 5D4.

5D3 is still the hot topic around and I find that for normal. The majority of people still are happy with 5D3 and see ni reason to update. In the context of Nikon D850 however ML will begin to seem outdated ;)

Dev’s time is neither cheap nor in abundance. Ergo new serious recruits would be a fresh and good idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: JohanJ on September 12, 2017, 07:46:51 PM
@AOK
Are you aware of that ML is a project based in voluntary contribution? Feel free to participate in the process of porting ML to a new platform
Fresh resources and ideas are certainly welcome.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: Walter Schulz on September 12, 2017, 08:09:23 PM
Ergo new serious recruits would be a fresh and good idea.

You are preaching to the choir. This has been an issue as long as I can remember. Unmaintained cams, blindly maintained cams and a1ex (and other) constantly asking for people to look after those neglected. Offering low entry coding task teasers, offering assistance. It wasn't without success. See Nikfreak's ports + dfort's porting EOS M to latest firmware version.
And Digic 6 is around us since 2014, November (7D2) and a generous offer (750D for free) for anyone willing to port a 750D is still open. Only lately we saw substantial progress: Bootflags for Digic 6 cams. 
So: What do you expect? If you have any ideas we all will listen ...

Advocatus Diaboli: Why bother? A few years ago affordable cams offering state-of-the-art video simply didn't exist. Now you can get them and some are cheaper than 5D4.
Title: Re: Canon 5D Mark IV - announced
Post by: garry23 on September 12, 2017, 08:30:19 PM
At the risk of upsetting some ML (virtual) friends, I will throw in my thoughts, especially seeing that next year we will expect a Canon full frame mirrorless, at 4K and accessing EOS lenses.

I've always felt there are two 'families' of ML user: the stills guys and the videographers.

I've always, maybe naively thought it might be good to spin out two versions of ML, i.e. for each family.

For stills photographers, ETTR, dual, auto bracketing and Lua are killer features.

It would be incredible if our ML stills family could transition to a new format, i.e. FF mirrorless. Note I said stills.

In other words, can we envision a stills biased version of ML that is enduring.

Of course, this is all speculation and a bit of fun.

But the world is made by dreamers :-)